StarLost
StarLost
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@Nihlus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310277#Comment_3310277
If you're off the gen for even 7 seconds, you have stalled your progress on that generator even more Eruption would have cost you over the entire 25 seconds of regression. The incapacitation effect needs to go. It still gives 10% instant regression and a scream. That's more than enough for a single perk.
10% is nothing if it doesn't yeet the survivor - by the time the killer is a threat, you'd already have caught up. And that requires a full kick to set up.
You'd basically just be junking the perk, ala Thana and Ruin. The only reason PR still sees play is because of DMS and that interaction.
As others have suggested, make Eruption work on hook, not on down. Or make it a gen block rather than an incap, so people can do other things.
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@IronKnight55 said:
Eruption desperately needs a nerf. It's busted and carrying killers right now. I don't understand why anyone would defend this perk in its current state. It's ridiculous. Was hoping we would get the nerf to Eruption in this update, but I guess not.
It's not so much defending Eruption, it's pushing back against the 'literally whatever the killer meta is at any given time must be OP and immediately nerfed' mindset here.
There are ways to make Eruption less oppressive for solos while still being a good perk - but you know, and I know, that it won't be enough.
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@HugTechLover said:
Mine is exclusively on killer except for a short period during lunch and around 4am. Some of my not so good friends always have it on survivor so we just let them host the SWF and we get their bonus.
prefer it on killer though cause I’m averaging 120-150k bp a game with a pudding. Rushing my blight to p100 so it’s perfect.
Haha all my BP is going into P100'ing Cheryl. I got so much BP during that last anniversary, it was silly. About the only thing I want on killer now is more Vanity Mirrors on Myers.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311343#Comment_3311343
Bully squads have many tools to piss off Killers and mass Head On is one of them, used by 3 or 4SWFs to keep stunning the Killer during chases nonstop while nobody fixes gens or does anything but flock around, sometimes even going as far as managing to reset the Exhaustion before using it again, Ive seen streamers doing this, Ive seen streamers suffering this, Ive even seen this ingame as a Solo paired with a 3SWF and I could tell the Killer wasnt liking show which was confirmed when they ended up ranting on postgame chat, now that doesnt mean all bully squad rants are exactly about that perk but its common sight among that kind of playstyle and again, is not a few uses of Head On what people dislike, is the continuated use of it, usually with someone leading to specific locations with the entire team waiting and with little real value other than stunning the Killer because "lols" as the chased guy doesnt even keep running to gain distance.
My example was about people not liking losing control for extended periods of time, they have to wait until everyone uses their gimmick to keep playing, which was my point as why Ecrutchion is bad gameplay design, you dont get to play, you get to stare at a screen while other people play and without much counterplay, now you can still quote this and keep going "I dont see complains about Head On" but this is reaching absurdity.
Shrug. You mentioned Head On, which is what surprised me.
Yeah, nobody likes not being able to do stuff - but that's sadly a fundamental part of the survivor role. It's why I still enjoy killer more - being slugged, being on hook, even sitting on gens is boring.
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@Pulsar said:
And such is my fate.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/11CJ1133T9T2/ow.png
Just a silly clip, uploading while I'm waiting for my Internet to come back on lol
You really need to talk to your ISP about this.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311324#Comment_3311324
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RPZK1I1S2J43/bullysquadsearch.jpg
Bully squad for me is people who enter a game with intent on pissing off the Killer, usually ignoring the objective, obviusly is not only "I got Head On, then Flashlight, then Flashbang" thats only one of the setups used to frustrate Killers, there are a lot more.
Bully squad on the search throws 1,8k comments which is a big number, if you search only for "bully" you get almost 11k, and thats people who used those exact terms to talk about it (doesnt count any complains not using those words), Streamers complain when they get one and its a spur of the moment, they dont come here to make threads about it and its usually the small time ones, you are not going to see Otz or others ranting about those because its not something a lot of their viewers want to see.
Shrug. Okay.
Let's look at the first few by 'Best Match'. Feel free to do this yourself for 'Newest' if you'd like.
- Sweat squad.
- BM squad.
- BM squad.
- "For those who dont know a bully squad is classified as usually a 4 man swf with flashlights with the intent of bullying the killer by flashlight clicking at them, tbagging and using meta perks.". No mention of Head On.
- The post I mentioned, way back in March.
- Sweat squad.
- Ambiguous.
- Ambiguous, but mostly just BM.
- Unhookable squad.
Went a bit further, still only one mention of Head On.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311309#Comment_3311309
Complain threads are made on the forums, Reddit and generals about bully squads being a pain in the butt and streamers do complain when they get people going for those kind of gimmicky games where they enter mainly to pester the Killer with that kind of antics.
'Bully squad' isn't 'people memeing with head-on'.
Where, specifically, are streamers complaining/people making forum threads en-masse about this? Because I haven't seen it - and I'm genuinely curious.
EDIT: A bully squad, from my understanding, is usually a strong SWF who stack the best perks, a map offering and then refuse to end and are BM.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311179#Comment_3311179
People do hate bully squads even if they win, being chain stunned, then blinded, then flashbang can be infuriating for a lot of people with reason, I dont really mind them but I can understand why people dislike them.
Which people? I mean...I'd love to know who specifically you're speaking about it, because I recall maybe one thread about this in the last year.
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310568#Comment_3310568
Literally any other slowdown perk is fine in pretty much anyone's eyes.
Just because people want a broken perk that happens to be in relation to gen progress nerfed, doesn't mean that pretty much all gen speed perks on the survivor side need nerfed in response.
I really wish people would stop acting as though Eruption is a killer's only option for a good perk, there are plenty of perks for killer that help combat fast gen progression aside from Eruption.
Ahahaha what?
No, seriously. You aren't new to the forums, so this is baffling to me.
Before Eruption, it was...well, STBFL, but before that Thana (and Penti).
Before Thana, it was Overcharge.
Before Overcharge it was PR+DMS.
Before PR+DMS it was the (already nerfed) Ruin+Undying and to a lesser extent, Pop and Tinkerer.
Before Ruin+Undying, it was the prenerf Ruin+Undying.
Nerf Eruption, and all that happens is you (and by 'you' I mean 'the forum survivors') will be back here to tomorrow complaining about PR+DMS. Because there's...something about this game that makes survivors go into a match expecting to escape.
Basically all the viable killer regression perks. Two of those were nerfed to complete uselessness due to forum QQ, two were nerfed pretty hard. Whatever the current killer meta is will not be fine, because it's far easier to blame perks/killer for a loss than error.
Gen speeds are honestly faster now than they were before 6.1.0, I'm fairly sure I've seen a thread (or it may have been a video) where folks mathed it out. Stake Out, Hyperfocus and PTS combine ridiculously well, throw a map offering in there and it's nuts. I've had multiple games over Christmas where despite getting constant chases and pretty rapid downs, I simply couldn't kill them fast enough to outpace the gens which were finished in <5 minutes.
I'm hesitant to nerf Eruption, because this cycle never ends.
Eruption is annoying in solo queue, but *this game cannot be balanced around solo queue*.
@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311179#Comment_3311179
I still disagree. I sincerely doubt Nightlight has the actual usage stats but Eruption is the most commonly used gen regression perk I see. However, not changing it because of usage rates or how long it took DH to be changed are bad reasons to not change it. If it creates an increase in effectiveness that is out of line with other gen regression perks it needs to be changed. Either that or up the effectiveness of the arms race by increasing both gen speed and gen regression perks and then balance around that but I'd prefer toning down the outlier.
Increasing regression might turn it into a clunkier version of Surge or PR but those type of perks are going to happen. When I kick a gen I can either remove a scaling amount of progress with Pop, or create good regression for a minute with a skill check with Call, or create terrible regression that scales up to great regression with a skill check with Overcharge. There are only so many things perks can do and eventually ones will step on another's toes anyway. I prefer it being an outright block instead of incapacitation anyway.
However, that as well is still not a good reason to change or not change the perk. Eruption, in its current form, is close to as unhealthy for the game as per 6.1 DH was and that's why it should be changed. I don't care about stopping the QQ train when I post as I consider that a non-factor in most circumstances as well. As an example, Nurse just got her blink attacks changed to special but in two to three months we'll see more QQ about Nurse simply because she plays differently than all other Killers and many people don't like Killers with different counterplay. That wouldn't be a good reason for further nerfs as it ignores the people who enjoy Nurse and it wouldn't be right to change something that affects players solely because of QQ. There will always be QQ but even @Sluzzy made a decent point now and then, mostly by accident and very, very rarely, but it's worth considering QQ to see if there is any validity. Most QQ is just smoke and noise but sometimes you might find a fire and in Eruption's case I believe there is one.
Nearly every argument that was made to give DH it's long justified and awaited nerf can be applied to Eruption. I could be mistaken about its effectiveness but when I used pre 6.1 DH as survivor it felt far more effective than any other exhaustion perk. Eruption post 6.1 feels far more oppressive when I used it as Killer than any other gen regression perk I've used. Unless that's a just me situation, which is a possibility, that is definitely a valid reason to nerf Eruption. It's over tuned and is too effective in comparison to other gen regression perks.
Nightlight is pretty representative of high MMR play. You can bear this out yourself easily - go watch Otz or another high MMR streamer play, and note the perks used. It'll match up remarkably closely over, say, 100 games.
Now, with high MMR play being where you'd see meta more, Eruption is likely less common elsewhere.
I brought usage rates up because about half these 'remove Eruption from the game NOW or I QUIT' type threads reference it's usage rate.
Pop isn't all that commonly used now, because by the time it's worth kicking that gen with pop, it's probably already done. And no, turning a flavorful and interesting perk into something deliberately bland and crap can't be an option, because that's really just moving backwards.
Overcharge...can't believe I forgot that one. Another target of QQ that got nerfed into barely being used.
Feedback is valuable. QQ is the product of an echo chamber. And I'm seeing very little feedback here. All I'm seeing is a lot of sour grapes from the killer buff patch finding another outlet. And if you want to see what I mean by sour grapes, just...go read the forums for a week or two after 6.1.0.
Again, you're missing my point though. Eruption is only the best regression perk against solos. Against a decent SWF, it'll work once, maybe twice in a game - which is why usage rates still have PR higher, at least the last time I checked. DH was universally oppressive - which is why, again, you saw it at 80% rates at higher MMRs. And yes, at the very least, it demonstrates that BHVR approach balance differently when it comes to survivor perks - another reason why this puts my teeth on edge.
Another problem that people aren't seeing is that killers...just don't have many universally good perks that aren't info or regression.
Info perks start getting redundant fast, which is why you'll bring one, or maybe 2 if you're using LP. Regression perks got nerfed hard, and while gen speeds were nerfed in theory, this was undone by buffing gen speed perks and adding more.
Outside of these...what universally good perks do killers even have?
@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310473#Comment_3310473
If 'dragging games out longer than necessary' is your core grounds for complaint, the trick to avoid getting AFK crows while hiding in a locker for 20 minutes has been around forever. Shouldn't that be the top priority?
Yes, same with Eruption dragging out the matches since both can prolong the game for no good reason. Why would their priorities be separate when they both cause the same problems?
Because...what's good for the goose is good for the gander? If you're concerned about stalling games out, then I'm not sure why you're hyperfixated on Eruption.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310561#Comment_3310561
I disagree about Eruption. To draw a comparison, I'll take pre 6.1 Dead Hard which was, as I've stated many times before, an abomination in game balance. Every Killer had to expect it because it was so overtuned practically every survivor ran it and it gave an increase in survivability that statistically outpaced every other exhaustion perk.
That's pretty much the exact same right now with Eruption. It's so overtuned that it is single handedly defining the meta just as pre 6.1 DH did. When I play survivor I am planning for Eruption just like I did with pre 6.1 DH when I would log in as Killer.
There are quite a few suggestions that have been proffered that don't involve gutting the perk such as increase regression while reducing incapacitation or blocking the gens affected instead of incapacitation. Blocking is my preference as a reverse DMS effect would even up the effectiveness among SWFs and solos and, if it can be evened up while being fair to the Killer, why not?
To be honest, I liked pre 6.1 Eruption and quite often ran it as it threw off the survivor's timing. It could have used a buff but what it got was too much in the post 6.1 version.
As it stands right now, Eruption has become almost as bad for the game as pre 6.1 DH was and needs a change. Suggesting that players run Empathy or be in a SWF to counter it is the same thing as the old 'just bait it out' arguments for DH.
While a lot of complaints are just the hey, I want things to be easier for my side variety Eruption isn't. It really needs a change.
Hmm.
Okay, a few things.
- Dead Hard was used at triple, if not quadruple the rate that Eruption is used. It was left like this for years. I don't see why there's such a massive rush to fix Eruption (yes, I'm being partially facetious, just making a point).
- Part of why Eruption is so common right now is because gen regression perks took a hefty nerf in 6.1.0, and the added gen time has melted away with the addition/buffing of some 'do gens faster' perks, leading to honestly probably faster gens than I've seen in ages.
- Eruption is...going off the stats we have available right now on Nightlight, not even the most commonly used regression perk. Again - this isn't defining the meta, because it only really shines against solo queue players.
- Increasing regression basically removes all the flavor from the perk, and turns it into a clunky version of PR or Surge. Blocking gens...it's an idea, but I can promise you right now that it won't even slow down the QQ train. Because the core issue people have with the perk is that you need to anticipate when someone's about to go down.
- Pre 6.1 Eruption was garbage. Like...almost Overcharge levels of garbage. It was purely a meme perk.
- It absolutely has not been close to the old DH. It's an annoying perk in solo queue, but it's absolutely not DH - DH had zero reliable counterplay and was used between 70 and 80% of the time at higher MMRs. Eruption, again going off Nightlight (which isn't perfect but does roughly correspond with what I see on top MMR streams) was hovering between 17 and 20% when I last checked.
- Does Eruption need a change? Eh...sure. If only because it'll further illustrate my point about how forum QQ works. Does it need the massive nerf that everyone is calling for? Absolutely not. Will anything short of a massive nerf stop the complaining? Not a chance.
@HectorBrando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310644#Comment_3310644
IMO the incapacitation has to go, effects that take away agency from players for long periods of time are awful, there is a reason they nerfed CCs in WoW from 50 seconds to 12 with diminishing returns from Vanilla to TBC, or why stunning on 2D fighters became super rare occurences or respawming times keep getting shorter on FPSs.
Its the same reason Killers HATE Flashbang+Head On+Flashlight chain squads even when they usually end up all dying, being unable to do anything for 3 to 5 seconds is ok but more than that looking at a screen without being able to play? Its absurd especially when there isnt any reasonable counter by half the playerbase.
...Do they? I enjoy these squads, it's nice to have some interaction with survivors that isn't slam gens/loop/hide in a bush.
Honestly, we need more stuff like that.
@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310277#Comment_3310277
So stop doing gens whenever an injured person is in chase? That's a huge amount of wasted time not doing gens. What if the person in chase has Dead Hard and ends up adding 20 or 30 seconds to the chase, only to see their 3 teammates are standing around not doing gens. This is a ludicrous suggestion.
No.
- Note which gens the killer has kicked.
- If you're in a SWF, get people to call out when to let go.
- If you're in solo queue...firstly, why? Secondly, if you're working on a gen you know has been kicked, let go when you suspect someone is about to go down. I like Empathy, but a lot of folks enjoy Bond. There is a bit of a risk, sure - but this isn't as bad as folks make it out to be.
- If they managed to postpone the chase for that long, you've probably already finished the gen.
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@HugTheHag said:
That would be a good idea, though I don't think it's gonna make people who give up on hook stay for much longer. At least it'd be less of a pain for those who stick around.
Better yet, as others have suggested - remove Kobes, and rework the relevant perks.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310558#Comment_3310558
Because Eruption cause 27sec Gen lost against SWF with a big setup will not help to win.
Where Solo it can apply 120sec Gen lost surely the most powerful Slowdown perk ever exist.
After all, its still just of 4 slowdown perk.
If you compare to Grim Embrace where requires 4 hooks to lock all Gens for 40sec. Even if buff the perk to require 1 hook to block 40sec, it still far weaker than Eruption where the possibly to remove 120sec Gen multiple times.
Eruption should be changed to close the gap between Swf & Solo. Blocking 25sec (will cause 34sec Gen lost instead of 40sec because the 6sec regression removed) is still powerful, while it both effect Solo & swf equally.
Killers who defense Eruption because its really weak against Swf isnt the reason, the true reason behind is to bully Solo.
Tell me - with the possibility of running into this sort of team, why shouldn't killers bring their strongest options?
You're asking survivors to run meta. Why should I use meme build when I may play against 4 slowdown tunnelers? The answer is accepting that I should have 40% escape rate, then die and drop MMR. Do you accept your 60% kill rate? Or 90% kill rate to play against survivors who have 90% escape rate?
Eh...
I'd say that if GE worked on one hook, it would be far, far stronger than Eruption.
The key word is 'potential'. Eruption is a win-more perk. If you're struggling to get regular downs, it's useless. Which is why I don't run it - it tends to turn games I was already going to win into stomps, but seldom turns around games against tough SWFs.
Also - what the hell?
No.
No no no no no.
You don't get to claim that killers run Eruption because they want to stomp solos - that's basically inferring that all killer players are malicious jerks who are just out to spoil the game for others.
Hell, I play both roles and it's substantially more likely that a winning survivor team is going to be BM than the killer - if anything, killers are expected to be merciful to the last survivor (I can't remember the last time a survivor gave me a mercy kill) and get called names if they aren't.
Killers run strong perks because if they don't run strong perks, and get thrown up against a strong opponent they lose.
Regarding your response to me directly...huh?
- I didn't ask survivors to run meta. I'm trying to explain why killers run meta.
- Survivors have far, far more reliable perks than killers do. Honestly, outside of info perks (which get redundant if you bring too many) and regression, what universally good perks do killers have?
- How are you facing 4 killers?
- That 60% kill rate stat is deeply flawed. I think I explained this in another thread, but let me do a cliffnotes version: SWF has a 15% higher escape rate than solos do. Add on...let's be conservative and say 5% on top of that from solo queue suicides/AFKs (maybe a third of my games have a quitter), and that 60% becomes 40%.
- Again, killers do not have the option not to play against SWF. Survivors have the option to play as a SWF at any time. BHVR have emphatically said that they'll never balance SWF differently, or give SWFs a higher MMR. So the only option is to balance around SWF.
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@Halloulle said:
DH is everywhere - and that is boring. But it's easy to see why. Arguably, almost all other exhaustion perks lack severely in versatility and the "getting value" department. So regardless of how boring DH is, there's kinda no competition.
So, are there any ideas out there to create some competition for DH?
[To anyone who feels compelled to say "bruh, just nerf dh until no one uses it anymore" --- or something that amounts to that outcome: sure, nerfing sth to the ground is one option. But I'm fairly sure at that point a significant amount of people would rather not run any exhaustion perk. That's neither particularly fun, nor does reducing the pool of viable perks help with diversifying builds.]
I don't think there really are any more ex perks that can be added - because there's already an ex perk for nearly any common situation and generally one for every uncommon situation. And we absolutely do not need any more 'do gens faster' perks, because that is already getting out of control - leading us back to zero exaggeration 'genrush' squads.
What I think we need more of is perks that discourage tunneling, camping and slugging, showing what other teammates are doing etc.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310551#Comment_3310551
Realistically you cannot know when a person is goin down based on just empathy,,sure the perk can be made useless against a swf on comms but that's not the case for most people + it doesn't feel right to be locked out of gens because another person goes down and u happened to be working on a gen ,,but i do agree devs miss the fine spot and either over nerf or over buff most of the times,,The perk will eventually be nerfed ,the question is when,,
I hope nurse makes it out in a decent spot after the addon changes,,,personally i only hated her strastruck builds which are now useless unless u wanna run some kind if walking nurse build
The thing about Nurse (and 'insert x killer thing here') is that at a certain level it's not about balance - it's about the psychology of the game.
I don't know what it is about the survivor role, but people seem to go in expecting to escape, and anything that prevents this is viewed as a problem. And when something on the killer end of things gets viewed as OP, the QQ won't subside until it's removed from the game. Watch this space for 'Nurse nerfs didn't go far enough' threads.
Again - unless you give killers the option not to face SWFs (not going to happen, obviously), balance SWFs differently (also not going to happen, as per BHVR's emphatic statement) or adjust MMR to force SWFs to face more skilled killers than they would have as solos (also not going to happen, as per BHVR's statement) - there is no option but balancing the game around the SWF/killer matchup, even if that negatively impacts the solo queue experience.
That's the least unfair of a bunch of unfair options.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310533#Comment_3310533
I just wish they understand that the chance they play against the sweat 4men SWF is lower than a mid MMR survivor play against a god Nurse.
Bring in sweat 4men SWF as the reason why Devs should buff Killer so they can win against those SWF effortless. Is the same as me asking Devs to remove blink from Nurse so I can beat SupaAlf. Which both are stupid.
@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310521#Comment_3310521
Killer also couldn't use the best addons...
So I don't think that tournaments about real game balance, its an environment which don't exist in real games
I'm saying that Eruption isn't the automatic win people are claiming it is, with the CC being the best example I can easily refer people to.
I'm probably a mid MMR killer (maybe mid-high on Hag, Ghosty, Artist and a few others) and I face sweaty SWFs sometimes. Because 'sweaty' is relative.
I mean, lets look at 3 memorable matches from the Christmas event.
Ghostface game on The Game (offering) - ran into a 4man running 'destroy all the gens' builds. Simply couldn't kill them fast enough, and Surge didn't cut it. Game was done in...about 5 minutes, with another two where I tried to defend the gates. Had I been running a stronger build, I might have had time to make something happen.
Demo game on Garden of Joy (offering) - ran into a 3man of comp players. Similar Hyperfocus/Fogwise/BNP/PTS build. Absolutely destroyed me, partially because I went in with a flan/give everyone a chance to get BP/fun build (it was Christmas Eve). They heavily abused the pseudo-infinite in the main structure and were BM as all hell in postgame.
Plague game on Eyrie - another 4man, similar builds. About 6 minutes in, all the gens were done - they didn't even bother to cleanse or do Plaything totems (I was running Penti) and barely even tried to loop me. Just two-to-a-gen, always on, and by the time I hooked someone a gen had popped. Once again, BM.
Tell me - with the possibility of running into this sort of team, why shouldn't killers bring their strongest options?
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310485#Comment_3310485
For me ruin was fine,,strong effect but being a hex means u can possibly be left with 3 perks 1 minute into the game
Thana i have mixed feelings about ,,it was frustrating to go against on two killers only (plague / legion) because of how their power promote staying injured most of the time
Boil over on the other hand got both nerfed(rightfully so) and some hooks were added to places where people would go to be downed using that perk
My thoughts about eruption is either give it the tinkerer treatment (once per gen) or remove the incapacitated and slightly buff the regression part,,that perk is very close to old Dh when playing solo,,can't counter at all unless u're not doin gens which is counterproductive for survivors
Ruin was fine. But it still got wall to wall complaints. So it got nerfed to complete uselessness.
STBFL is fine. But it still got wall to wall complaints. And once Eruption is gone, it'll probably be the next QQ target, until it too is nerfed to uselessness. Because, at the end of the day, it's not really about whether something has counterplay or not - it's about blaming whatever the current killer meta is for any losses you take.
There are still hook deadzones. Boil Over was nerfed because it essentially forced you to slug camp on some maps. It was one of those perks that just...cannot work as it stands, because it essentially unplays the game and there was zero counterplay - people were still unhookable with Agitation and IG.
Thana was a bit much - my point was that it got nerfed to complete uselessness, probably worse than it was before the buff. And that seems to be the only way to stop the complaining. If they'd just tweaked Thana slightly to still be viable, you'd have seen as much if not more QQ - because caving to QQ (as opposed to taking feedback on board) is the equivalent of feeding the pigeons; all you're going to do is attract more pigeons.
Watch this space regarding Nurse.
Those changes would make Eruption completely useless.
As I said - Eruption is fine against SWF. It's strong, but has counterplay. It's...a bit obnoxious as a solo, but I run Empathy and I think I'm getting pretty good at letting go before someone goes down now, based on reading how the other players are moving. However, again - I'm very, very tired of seeing stuff nerfed for the sake of solo queue, because that makes it completely and utterly crap against a decent SWF.
I say - if it's fine against SWF, let it stand.
And again - watch this space. If Eruption gets a small nerf, it won't be enough - and it'll probably just redouble the QQ.
If Eruption gets Thana'd, then the QQ will shift over to PR+DMS or STBFL again. Until that gets Thana'd (honestly, Ruined would probably be more apropos).
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@Seraphor said:
PlayStation player here who finished the Rift late November.
I have no problem with them extending the Rift but it doesn't seem necessary to me. If I could complete it that fast with technical issues (and I don't play all that much either, for example I never reach Iri rank on either role, maybe a couple hours about 5 days a week) I don't think anyone else has much of an excuse.
Just focus on challenges, complete every challenge on every tome page, and you'll have it done in a few days. The event tomes are great for this because the challenges are so easy, the two Halloween tome pages got me most of the way, and you can finish the bone chill pages now to get a similar bonus.
Something doesn't need to be necessary to be a good idea. I finished the rift, including the deep rift a while back myself, but with some of the goodies on offer this time (that Artist skin...oh man) I'm happy to let more folks get it before it's gone.
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@Piruluk said:
I still think she is the very best killer in the game, nothing comes close to her. Like SupaAlf still gonna win 500+ games in a row with 3K-4K against top tier squads on comms (the only time he lost when played in tournament rules which restricted his playstyle)
So it's only matter of time before she will be redesigned, and her power taken away
Honestly, I don't think so. The changes to her attack type means that most of her strongest builds are gone, ditto her addons.
@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I guarantee it wont be the last nerf as this wont change much for the actual good players who don't rely on broken addons and OP perk builds over raw skill.
However I do agree with others that we will likely see the crutch players switch to full slowdown builds instead so that inevitable Eruption nerf is going to be more urgent than ever
Actual good players...ugh.
Okay, so. Part of being an 'actually good player' is knowing how to build right. Being a good player doesn't mean you run meme builds.
Go and watch the community cup - some of the best players in the world, with some of the strongest builds in the world. Killers ran Eruption and anything else nasty they could, slugged, camped, tunneled their hearts out.
Survivor squads had heavy restrictions on what they could bring.
Killers still had a rough time.
If they're going to nerf Eruption, they are going to have to rework it so that it stays viable when facing strong SWFs. But let's be honest here - whatever the killer meta is, it's going to get QQ'd about until it gets nerfed. Because when someone loses, it's way easier to say 'oh the killer did/used x and if they hadn't I'd have won' than 'oh, if we hadn't make x mistakes we would have won'.
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
Him hitting gold means he won at least 85 % percent or preformed well enough to raise grade,so if he's getting more coordinated teams in his gameplay,being gold effects the MMR in someone way right? but after not playing for a month or two I had to be lowest MMR cap but yet I faced swf after swf or just really determined survivor's who wanted to really win in the Ash ranks but it could be that my MMR never lowered,but the grade did.
Nope.
It's really easy to pip on killer and almost impossible to depip unless you're getting completely flattened, at least before Iri.
There does seem to be some mild MMR decay, but I think it takes longer than 3 months. The recent change, though, makes it so that after a long break your MMR is more volatile, so if you win it'll go up faster and if you lose it'll fall faster.
@Pudin said:
Hello fellow players.
I love DBD, as a survivor and as a killer. I need to put on the table (again) a problem we all know but seems the devs don't want to touch at all, I get making a game is not an easy task, less a successful one like this game; but thing is, as a killer you can have good games against noobs, good games were for both sides were really close and exciting and, the more common as you go up to the ranks: unfair games.
Time ago the game got some buffs to killer side stuff, and actually helped after a loooong time asking for them. But it is still a PROBLEM the SWF games.
It's been a whole week since I hit gold were I got teams that are totally coordinated, to describe one type of game example I've been getting most: by the time I get 1 or 2 survivors down, depending if they loop good and create time using dead hard (1 hook each) I get two pops of gens, when I try to get a second one (or a third down) I get a third gen and a few minutes later a fourth. By the time I get 3 or 4 hooks (no sacrifice) the doors are activated, they help each other with body blockings and flashlights were it is obvious they are together, while I chase one the other is very close ready to blind me when I get that one on my shoulder, while I chase again the other survivors cross ways to create chaotic scratch marks on the floor (just to mention ONE kind of game I've been getting as an example of coordination). And when the doors are activated, there is already one waiting on the switch. And of course I get the teabaging and flashlight spam at me.
As a survivor I get there are unfair games too when you play solo, most games as solo survivor are very frustrating and less others you find good teammates, the game NEEDS team work to function, the problem is that the line of being unfair is very easy to cross, as a killer against survivors solo or as a full 4 SWF against a killer.
As a killer, the SWF games are not just the obvious good cordination of 4 against 1, but they make some perks totally useless to the killer as we try to create "pressure", they just talk on discord or console voice chat saying everything like "ok don't go there", "wait run and hide he is going there". To mention just one simple example of a lot that exists: the Nemesis addon to be invisible after killing a zombie is to have the oportunity to create a sneak attack, but these 3 days it's useless, I do it and when I'm getting my way to a gen behind walls, I can see them from distance just run all directions from the gen where they had NO chance to see me comming, it's obvious the person I just hooked told them my terror radius dissapeared.
I have tried to change perks combinations with actual strategies: pressure to gens perks, winning time perks at the start, being "harder" to them as they fix gens (the nightmare fire up for example with dying light); ending game perks, but nothing works. Even hex are useless, most SWF teams destroys totems just at the first 3 minutes or the time you use to take down one survivor (loops, dead hards, pallets) and then as a killer you get now useless perks for the rest of the game. I have combine a lot of perks but the SWF games are so broken that they keep winning time very well. To say I get 1 single sacrifice on those games is something rare, mostly everyone escapes.
And yes, I try not to facecamp. I HATE it as a survivor and as a killer is no fun tbh, and even when I tried 2 games to make that, while I hit one, other takes the survivor free, and the third bodyblock and recieve protection hits, and thats all, everyone escaped as the door was opened or just needed one touch.
Dead hards, voice chats advices that makes some killer perks and addons useless, coordinated actions, some maps that have double windows loops one after another, the perk I don't recall the name that makes survivors go faster after vault a window or falling, endless pallets, flashlights that blinds even before the "taking" a fallen survivor animation ends... all this are really working against killers time with well coordinated SWF. I have to admit I disconected a couple of games where I even thought there could be hacks, not even 5 or 6 minutes passed and I get one hook or Im about to get a second one I get 3 gens fixed (one of those two games I remember even the Rebecca I was chasing stopped and flash spamed me with teabagging when I got 3 gens pop at the same moment, I already had one fixed before those 3, so yeah 4 gens.) even some friends that are survivor mains see me play those games and they say, IT IS surivor sided when a good SWF team appears. And yep, they hate to play killer because of how frustrating can get, they don't want to play against those teams.
Thing is... I understand if the devs buff more the killer side, it's gonna be totally impossible for the solo survivors or noobs. The game really needs to find some more balance, but really as a more killer side player myself, it's more frustating than being a survivor. On high ranks for every 10 games, 7 are unfair to the killer and the other 3 are a total sweep and unfair to the survivors (they were solo or just 2 of them were playing together), I think this last thing shows how easy is to cross the line of "fair games"
Love you all.
SWF is a problem, because...I think I've said this in another thread.
Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo. Factoring in how many suicides and DCs there are in solo queue, SWF has...I'd wager about a 20% higher chance of escaping.
Killers cannot choose not to face SWF. Therefore this game can't be balanced around solos, it has to be balanced around SWF versus killer. And that makes solo needlessly frustrating, which in turn leads to a lot of forum QQ.
I don't think this is an issue that can really be solved...unless BHVR literally remove the ability to solo queue from the game. Which would probably be a worse outcome.
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@FellowKillerMain said:
It's a lot to ask I guess, considering that they extended the rift to 85 days with 6.3.0, but there were technical issues for both xbox and playstation. Both xbox and playstation suffered crashes from the halloween event, which was fixed in November(?). Then there was a cursor issue on playstation. I couldn't reliably play until the middle of december, and by that time I was busy with holiday stuff.
Didn't they announce that the rift would be extended, along with the event?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310436#Comment_3310436
If i remember correctly, i´ve seen advertising of Callisto Protocol and GoW Ragnarok on Youtube.
Unless their plan is to only advertise hello kitty online, they are going to miss a lot of advertisement from the big game studios.
AFAIK, the Callisto Protocol thing ended up being a bit of a fart, because it was the spicy chat that was getting it flagged, not the game content. But I could be thinking of something else - there have been a lot of click-baity 'YouTube is now flagging all x content' things recently.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310473#Comment_3310473
I wouldn't mind if they removed bnps and nerfed perks like prove along with eruption,,both are unfun / unhealthy for the game imo
Sure.
But you cannot deny that survivor perks and killer perks are balanced very, very differently when nerfs come down the pipe.
Unless it's a survivor perk that's literally breaking the game and is impossible to balance without another complete rework (Boil Over), it'll get a slight tweak and still be viable. Hell, even reworked into something almost as good. See: Dead Hard, CoH.
Killer perks get the 'to the ground!' approach - see Ruin, Thana.
Not to mention the survivor complaint threads are never 'hey, here's this small change to make to Eruption which will let it be less annoying in solo queue but still good' - it's always 'nerf this completely out of the game'. Hell, I can link some posts.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Don't get me wrong, this is a good mid-chapter but c'mon devs, you guys announced that the twins would receive changes 10 months ago and still nothing, you are shattering my hopes now.
what about Onryo ? you guys said you wouldn't make changes to newly released killers because you'd rather look at the stats first before a sudden change but the Knight is getting a lot of changes while other killers stay in the shadows for quite a while.
Good thing eyrie is being reworked but i'm still dreaming about the swamp rework.
And please let the seventh year chapter be the evil within!
Eh.
Onryo is bleh, and relies on a really obnoxious playstyle for success - but she's at least playable.
Twins are janky, buggy and have mostly terrible addons.
Knight was basically dead on arrival.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310317#Comment_3310317
Nope. I've had three killer DCs in the past week while going for various survivor adepts and I was not awarded the achievement for any of them.
I see killers DC in...maybe 1 in 20 matches, if that. Probably closer to 1 in 30.
I see survivors DC/suicide in probably 1/3 of my killer games, if not more.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310233#Comment_3310233
Eruption is far from overrated and can literally cause games to last far longer than necessary. If you think it’s overrated your either new or god awful at the game.
If 'dragging games out longer than necessary' is your core grounds for complaint, the trick to avoid getting AFK crows while hiding in a locker for 20 minutes has been around forever. Shouldn't that be the top priority?
@burt0r said:
I am just curious what will be the next complained target after the inevitable change.
We'll probably be back to STBFL or PR+DMS. Whatever the new killer meta is.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310300#Comment_3310300
Not if every Survivor stops repairing Gens to avoid Eruption.
Thing is Aven - you cannot balance this game around solos.
@Entitled_survivor said:
Also where are the pig nerfs ? Jokes aside it's sad they haven't touched eruption ,,Guess it's time to pull out the bnps and gen rush builds,,can't get erupted if my gen is unfairly finished in 40 secs
You see that anyway. If they nerfed Eruption, you'd still see that. Because both sides are free to bring their strongest stuff, so genrush SWFs are only going to get more common, not less.
@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310462#Comment_3310462
Love how you first were adressing the wrong perk and now are saying the perk is fine cause of changes that aren't in the game yet
You are proving that Eruption is a problem more then anyone else by how far you need to grasp to defend it
Your "counter" to Eruption is the equivallent of countering dead hard by just not hitting survivors ever. Can't use dead hard if they aren't injured after all
Don't Kafkatrap.
The counter to Eruption is info perks and a bit of gamesense, or voicecoms.
Survivors have the choice to play solo or play in an SWF. Killers do not have the choice to not face SWFs.
Therefore, it's not fair to balance this game around solos.
@FreakPrince said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310395#Comment_3310395
Because they suck at the game and can't win without it.
Did you watch some of the recent Community Cup games?
Killers camping, slugging, tunneling and running Eruption. On fairly killer sided maps. Against teams that had heavy restrictions on what they could bring.
Killers absolutely didn't 'suck', and still had a very rough time of it.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FCSUM9qafc
IMO, Youtube's been screwing up since COPA and Youtube Kids came out. I'm equally curious and spooked to see what will happen if they continue to streamline their platform by pushing out any and all "violent games" content.
Thoughts ?
I run a moderately sized horror channel, I use DbD as background footage for some things, I cover *way gorier* stuff and never had any issues that weren't copyright related.
The recent panic around violent games seems to mostly be actually coming from videos with live chat in them, and that chat being very sweary within the first 15 seconds or 15 seconds after an ad break (an advertiser no-no). The Community Guidelines don't seem to have changed at all, with videos of violence within the context of gameplay being listed as fully monetizable.
No idea what's happening here.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310458#Comment_3310458
you're right but it doesn't counter the fact that this perk is unhealthy and unfun, if survivors cry after that they can keep crying but Eruption is a huge issue even more than old ruin undying tinkerer.
As I, and a bunch of other folks have suggested - make Eruption work on hooking rather than downs, meaning that it would be easier for solos to counter.
Now, let's say that do that. Will this:
A. Get people to stop complaining about it?
B. Not put a dent in the QQ?
@Veinslay said:
Eruption? If you want to talk about perks carrying people to victories that they don't deserve, let's start with Circle of Healing and Windows of Opportunity. Free infinite fast self healing for an entire team that is very difficult for the killer to even do anything about consistently for 1/16 perks? Totally fun and fair! Information that makes sure you never run to a deadzone and always lets you know where that god pallet is when you need it at endgame that never turns off and always available for literally nothing with zero downsides? Certainly not a crutch at all!
CoH is a problem.
WoO is not only not a problem, but it's absolutely essential for those of us who either have crappy eyesight or play in a room with a lot of screen glare. It's not a massively strong perk, but it's a really, really comfortable perk to have because of how stupidly dark this game can be.
Honestly, on the survivor end of things, Fogwise in SWF is ridiculous - almost as good as prenerf OoO. And we're now starting to see straight up genrush squads emerging again with some of the insane 'do gens faster' combos.
@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310258#Comment_3310258
In your next post you said Windows of Opportunity is carrying people to wins they don’t deserve. Lol. Enough said.
Of course there are things on the survivor side carrying people to wins they don't deserve (WoO is absolutely not one, and I don't even use it before you say I do). The most serious of which is just playing in an SWF. That is beside the point right now. Just because one thing is broken doesn't mean another thing isn't.
SWF gives easy wins. So I don’t play SWF. There is almost no challenge if all 4 players are good.
SWF should be nerfed - no stacking perks, no stacking items, probably some other things too.
However, eruption also gives super easy wins in the vast majority of games played. It absolutely hard carries. You can deny it all you want, but it is true.
Take a step back and think about what is good for both sides, not just the one you play the most.
The WoO chap was another PH avatar, not him.
No, Eruption doesn't do that. Eruption is annoying against solo queue, but it's balanced against SWF.
Think of it this way.
Survivors can choose to play in a SWF or play solo.
Killers cannot choose not to face SWF.
BHVR have categorically said that they will never balance SWF and solo differently.
Therefore, the only fair route is balancing this game around SWF. Because this game doesn't have 2 sides - it has 3. With two possible match-ups (killer v solo, killer v SWF), meaning that if you balance this game around killer v solo, killers are absolutely borked against SWFs.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310118#Comment_3310118
STBFL counterplay - send the obsession to take hits.
PR+DMS- get up from the gen before hooking animation.
Ruin undying - cleanse totems.
Eruption - alt f4 everytime u can't play the game for another 25 seconds cause there's no way in hell you can guess when a survivor will go down.
see the problem?
My point is that, even if Eruption gets nerfed to oblivion, like Thana and Ruin did, it won't even slow down the QQ - it'll be STBFL (omg how can you expect the obsession in solo queue to do anything?).
PR+DMS was wall to wall QQ for ages.
Ruin is not worth using anymore, but that saw tons of QQ.
Counterplay is irrelevant. Whatever the killer meta is will be complained about until it's nerfed.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Old maps, old keys, old Moris, old animations, old perks, old meta, old items charges, old Sabotage, old offerings, old insta-heals, old killers, old atmosphere.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SVFR6AHY0A47/images.jpeg
Old atmosphere? Sure.
Everything else - hell no.
@versacefeng said:
I'd burst into tears of joy.
...Why?
Old DbD was a gigantic broken buggy mess. I know that even 2 years ago, every map had at least one spot where you couldn't pick survivors up.
@Aven_Fallen said:
Would be nice. Then Killers would not call the current state of the game unplayable or too hard. Would open some eyes I guess.
Just because things were worse at x time doesn't mean that things are perfect now.
For example - Haddonfield being reworked doesn't mean that it's okay for Garden of Joy to have a pseudo-infinite.
@[Deleted User] said:
I want 2018 DbD back.
I want old dbd back, 100% no doubts including with all the bugs and #########... but I want it back.
I'm an OG player (2016) to say... game looked different.
I think I started in 2019, and the game was pretty awful. I mean, why would you want that? Basically every second match had a survivor immediately running to x doodad where you couldn't pick them up or couldn't reach them.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310088#Comment_3310088
While it is true that the devs swing the nerf hammer too hard at times, it is very easy to see if one perk is extremely overtuned. Currently it is Eruption. You can deny it all you want, but it is absolutely carrying killers to easy wins they don’t deserve. I've been telling players for months not to rely on it because it is obviously a busted perk. If you are disappointed at that, it's also on you.
Same with Nurse. This has been coming for her for a long, long time. Players who knew that, and didn’t rely on using a killer who gives too much power to the user, aren't terribly disappointed.
Basically: stop being carried by only the most OP stuff, just let yourself fall back to the mmr you should be at. You'll be much happier.
Did you watch some of the CC games?
Killers ran Eruption, and even tactically slugged/camped/tunneled.
Even on pretty killer sided maps, with heavy restrictions on what survivors could bring - they still had a hell of a time.
Eruption is fine against SWF. It's a bit much against solos, but you cannot balance this game around solo queue.
But here's the thing. Adjust Eruption slightly, make it work on hook rather than on downs or something so it's easier for solos to counter? Sure. But it won't put a dent into the QQ.
So they nerf Eruption to the ground, and then the QQ train moves onto STBFL again. Or PR+DMS. Because, again, whatever the killer meta is will always become 'this is why I lost, therefore OP'.
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@lLyonl said:
What do you think are the top 5 strongest killers in the game? All opinions welcome.
Mine is:
1) Nurse (Even after the upcoming nerf)
2) Blight
3) Spirit
4) Oni
5) Wesker
Define 'strong'?
Some killers are strong, but have a really high skill floor (generally with no skill ceiling).
But in terms of top-end performance:
- Blight. He'll probably edge out Nurse after her addons get nerfed.
- Nurse. She'll still melt faces, but not quite as hard as she used to - the change to her attack type is going to do more than nerfing her addons.
- Artist. My sleeper pick. Just...this killer can do almost everything, and has fantastic tracking built in on top of it. A good Artist is terrifying.
- Plague. The snowball/comeback queen. I don't think many other killers can go from 1 hook at 1 gen left to everyone dead as fast as she can.
- Wesker. Passive slowdown, great addons, his TR is so large that it's almost as good as having no TR.
Spirit is good, but she's...a lot of work for less payout than stronger killers.
Oni is good, but relies heavily on snowballing.
@DashMonsta008XV said:
Wesker isn't strong he's fun to play as but dude is balanced, like Pyramid Head.It feels good and not like you're struggling but Wesker is time consuming like his exposed add-on hopefully You'll never be in a chase that long with an uninjured survivor just to get a insta down
I've played 5 Wesker's so far and was killed two by circumstance, position, resources but, I've beaten three and they were pretty determined,the also go old eruption,CoB or overcharge which one guy did that combo but he only killed me by circumstance,the other three rotated the next he was protecting the main gen on RPD
Wesker has a very punishing miss and three cool downs.You have to extend Virulent Bound if you miss the second one you'll lose distance if you don't bump but this also slows him down in the process if do bump, now you have to wait for the power to cool down, which is pretty forgiving at the rate.Then you have to extend it again and if you miss the first one and decide to stay in area, this slows you down,it also retracts when the power cools down, to increase the rate it happens a bit simultaneously at certain notches when this action is failed or succeeded,the second build up may not seem slow but when you're in the same tile as survivor and you miss the first Virulent it's very noticeable when you thought you had the second dash.His power works as it should but that doesn't make him strong, especially at vaults that's why he was giving the buff to hit survivors if the stand at the vault when he vaults
I think you are all comparing his map pressure to his actual skill cap,which he can recovery a game with his map pressure and skill of the player but even the best so called Wesker went against the best so called SWF group which I think ended in a 3k or possibly 4k,I wasn't paying attention to that at the end I was focused on the mistakes he made ,but he did do a rematch with them.So skill vs skill any killer will shine
PH is annoying because he can do some shenanigans to circumvent anti camping/tunneling.
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@Minse said:
In the newest mid chapter patch we've seen some long awaited Nurse nerfs to not only her add-ons, but also her synergy with exposed perks. This is a good and healthy direction for the game.
Now the only killer left that really needs an add-on pass for their overtuned add-ons on top of their already strong power is Blight. Alchemist ring still somehow hasn't been touched as well as compound 33 and speed add-ons. Not only this but he really should also just be a 110 speed killer due to how lethal his power is. It's not really asking for much considering Nurse is slower than survivor speed and Blight is not much weaker than Nurse.
So with that being said, I really hope Bhvr is planning on looking at this killer next!
And here we go again. Chalk another on up for the 'called it-s'.
@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3310058#Comment_3310058
So many people on these forums have been consistently saying for a long time that Blight's best addons are troublesome.
In what way, shape, or form is this the start of 'Blight whining'?
I don't agree his basekit should be changed. But it is a pretty consensus opinion that his addons give the already second most powerful killer in the game a huge boost in power.
It's more that it's very annoying being a killer main, because whatever killer or perk meta is in vogue, it will be bitterly complained about until it's gutted.
See: Thana and Ruin, and almost certainly Eruption.
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@Krazzik said:
Finally got the nurse nerf we deserved <3
She's going to be fine, this just reigns in some of her sillier addons and perk interactions.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I largely agree with Scott's points here. A mechanical solution to tunneling is bound to create more problems than it solves. And tunneling does create a false feedback loop for killers who rely on it. Killer is nowhere near difficult enough to warrant hard tunneling every game, unless I happen to exist on the same magical server that Scott does.
My opinion: tunneling is a matchmaking issue at its core. It's risky in a well-made match. You stand to lose 4 gens minimum tunneling players of equal skill, especially at a high level. The problem is that this game rarely makes a balanced match. There are almost always 1 or 2 extremely weak links relative to the killer. They'll go down 3 times in the span of 1 or 2 gens. Barring tile RNG, that's a matchmaking issue, not a tunneling mechanic issue. They're not having good chases or their teammates are doing nothing, which again points to matchmaking.
He goes on to talk about overly sweaty playstyles in public matches. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but again, I feel like it's a matchmaking issue. I retired from comp over a year ago but I would love to play against those 4 man comp squads instead of sleepwalking through usual matches. But I get rounded down to the soft cap, the comp squad is rounded down to the soft cap, and we both get relative babies in our games. This isn't to say I sweat like it's a tourney in pubs, but there's zero reason to even make some of these matches. What enjoyment is a 500 hr survivor going to have against a 4k hr comp player, and vice versa? They don't want anyone to wait for a game, and the quality of matches suffers a lot.
I don't think the sweat will ever really go away. That doesn't seem realistic with a playerbase of this scale. It can be managed a bit through matchmaking or some quasi-rank system where SR was added and also used. But a lot of people just like winning and they don't care how.
(As an aside: scrims absolutely suck to set up. A lot of times it takes 20+ minutes to work through the language barrier and get the lobby to actually load everyone in. And then the survivors immediately quit because they're shocked about 220+ ping even though you clearly said you were NA and they're RU)
It's...ugh. A tricky one.
On one hand, watching CC and streams, and if you try to play nice against a good squad, you're going to get flattened and told to uninstall in postgame.
However, it's also obnoxious to face when the killer isolates the weak link in the team and just turbo tunnels them out, without there being too much you can do aside from a bit of bodyblocking.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3302515#Comment_3302515
Well to be fair that's really the only viable and strong playstyle for her
The problem with Condemn is that it's about as miserable to face as it is to use - and because it's an instant mori (often aiming for a 0 hook game), basically everyone depips.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306979#Comment_3306979
"If you don't experience it you are either low mmr"
Not to pick on you but why is this the default reply when someone doesn't agree? It's just as lazy way to dismiss someone.
It generally means 'they're right, and I have no counter argument but I'll be damned if I admit it, so I'll just dodge by shifting it back to the person making the point'.
Chalk it up as a W and move on.
@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306994#Comment_3306994
1) That is not what "ad-hom" is.
2) The data from the unofficial site, which as I already showed you does not account for even close to a majority of the players. Sigh..
3) Based on several of the posts you have made. It is pretty clear you don't understand DBD very well.
4)...lol...? Like, sorry. It's just funny.
5) Not going to bother.
6) You were quite clearly saying Eruption was completely fine, no issue, for quite a while. Now it should work as PR does? Soon you will be saying Eruption is actually an issue.
7 - arguing with yourself. 8 - again, arguing with yourself. 9 - please, just stop. If you look back in a few months at your posts from these eruption threads you will be quite embarassed..
- Uh...What? Yeah, it is. A textbook example. You made an accusation. I explained why you were wrong. You then essentially called me a liar, rather than trying to give a counter or even...you know, checking my posting history, where I literally discuss my survivor games or defend survivor perks against QQ. A recent WoO thread immediately comes to mind.
- I forget the name for this fallacy (an ATS fallacy, maybe?) - briefly, unless you can provide a more representative sample or more accurate stats, you don't get to hand wave away data because you don't like what it indicates. Nightlight isn't perfect, but it seems pretty decently representative based on my own observations in game, and the streamers I watch. Again, if you've got better or more representative data, I'd be happy to take a look. Otherwise - the numbers are the numbers. You're not seeing the same Eruption strat in *literally every game* - that's hyperbole.
- /eyeroll. Once again, if your only response to someone's point is an ad-hom then you concede that point. You don't get to say 'well, your argument is anecdotal' and follow it up with an anecdotal argument.
- See above. Your story did not make any sort of logical sense, because nowhere in your story was the killer actually spending time hooking people.
- I wonder why XD. It's...almost like you didn't bother actually looking up what the Community Cup was before claiming that it was full of new players. Which is...amusing.
- Shrug. No, I've maintained that Eruption is fine against SWFs and - while it can be a problem against solos - this game can't be balanced around solo queue and it can still be countered, albeit less reliably, by using aura reading perks like Fogwise or Empathy. My stance is basically 'well, forum QQ is going to get it nerfed anyway, so let's at least try tweaking it slightly first before Thana-ing it'. Because I'm sick and tired of killer perks getting gutted when a small tweak would suffice.
- No, I'm explaining why you can't balance around solo queue.
- No, I'm explaining why accusing me of bias is...just really odd?
- No, I'd expect I'd be vindicated, because exactly what I've said in other threads has come true. Eruption gets a tweak to make it easier to counter, but survivors continue to complain. So it gets gutted, like Thana. Or Ruin. And the forum QQ train just moves on to PR+DMS, or STBFL, or CoB, or whatever the current killer meta is - because that's how it goes.
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@DwightDwigt said:
I'm curious what the community thinks.
What would provide more benefit to Solo Queue?
Survivor Activity Icons or Survivor Aura-Only Basekit Kindred?
I feel that a form of Basekit Kindred (Survivor Aura-Only) would be more beneficial because the members of your Solo Queue team would instantly know which member of the team is closest to the hook and which member is going for a rescue.
In fact, I'm curious how the community feels Survivor Activity Icons will benefit Solo Queue at all.
Teammates will be constantly on and off gens as the Killer circulates around the map, so those Icons will constantly change.
Periodically, you'll see that people are doing totems, in lockers, in chase, etc. But, you already know that anyway, so I'm unclear how Survivor Activity Icons will change anything.
What about avoiding a situation like Eruption incapacitation? (This effect will likely get nerfed in the near future anyways.) But, Solo Queue players already become aware that these perks are in play throughout the trial, and seeing, via an Icon, that someone is in chase isn't going to help anyone. It's not like everyone can just hop off gens until the teammate is down or out of chase; it's not practical.
What about hook rescues? I'm not seeing the benefit there either (as opposed to a form of Basekit Kindred). If a teammate is hooked and you know (via the Icons) that the 3 remaining members of the team are on gens, you still have no idea which one is closest to the hook, so, even if one teammate gets off the gen (presumably to go for the rescue) you have no way of knowing if they are the person closest to the hook, best suited to go for the rescue.
So, overall, as mentioned before, I'm unclear how Survivor Activity Icons will improve the Solo Queue experience.
Perhaps members of the community can explain the potential benefits...
Basekit Kindred - hard no. It's a very strong perk that you see in HCS or comp squads - for a reason. Yes, it would be beneficial to solos, but it would also be very beneficial to SWFs. And that must be avoided.
I'm also not convinced that status icons will help solo queue all that much, because the problems I see when I play solo queue don't have much to do with knowing what other survivors are doing. The problems are:
- People DCing or suiciding.
- People going AFK.
- Perk redundancy (3x COH, 3x Kindred)
- People playing too aggressively - following the killer and trying to unhook in their face.
- People playing too passively - spending most of the game hiding while two people are on their death hooks and they are at 0.
- People trying to showboat after a pallet stun and going down.
The icons will help in basically one situation - nobody brought Kindred, and nobody going for the unhook because they think someone else is.
I'd also like for solos to be able to see each other's perks in pregame, to prevent redundancy.
However...you're never going to get solos to the same level of power as SWF - and you can't implement solo buffs that will also buff SWFs, otherwise we're right back to buffing killers again. Because, sadly, you cannot balance this game around solo queue.
@Sycamore said:
They would benefit better from a quick message radial system, so Survivors can share information like a SWF. Not just get all that information for free through icons.
The icons, and all this "perk as basekit" nonsense doesn't do anything but buff survivors needlessly and doesn't close the gap.
This is another great idea that's been suggested umpteen times - pings and a radial message system. Absolutely no idea why BHVR aren't going with this.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
When are UB base kit changes coming?
look I get that sometimes slugging is a strategy, but being slugged for 4 minutes, bleeding out on 0 hooks should not be a thing
No. It shouldn't.
However, basekit UB as the game stands now would be worse.
@Mat_Sella said:
I did not see a single issue with this mechanic, people just want to keep their toxic bleedouts in the game because thats the kind of people this game attracts.
Okay, let me see if I can explain.
- There are still way too many spots where survivors can deliberately stand, go down and be impossible to pick up (CPA, RPD, GOJ and TOP all have one and I think DDS has one too, not going into more detail here). These would have to be fixed first, and since they've existed for 2+ years it's probably more difficult than you'd think.
- Slugging is sometimes your only option. Survivor goes down on a pallet, for instance, and there's someone nearby.
- Ditto situations like Badham and Eyrie where you can have entire areas of the map completely unhookable with a single sabo or suicide.
- Certain killers - Twins specifically - would be nearly unplayable, because for some unknown reason they require you to slug.
I'm totally happy to have a mechanic to prevent deliberate bleed-outs. But not in a way that essentially forces me to slug camp because a survivor is unhookable or acts as a huge nerf to already bleh killers.
There are some things that need to be fixed before this is viable. This also needs to come with the auto-mori system, so it's going to take a bit.
@SmolBlob said:
Ideally never, because it was an insanely bad idea that made more problems than it solved.
Eh...
There needs to be something to stop the obnoxious 'endlessly slug and bleed folks out with Knock Out because you feel a case of the trollies coming on.
It's a change that is needed - but it can't be rushed.
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@stvnhthr said:
For us survivors it means the pallets don't drop, deadhard will not activate, skill checks timing is all over the place, and we run to a window, pallet, etc it takes one to two seconds to get a prompt to interact with the object. On the killer's side what does this look like for you? Can you tell the game is unplayable for your opponents?
It's...not much more playable for us. I tend to play odd hours (I often get in a few games at 3-4am before I start work, and am thus matched with folks from all over).
- Hits will constantly whiff, because the survivor isn't where they are on your screen.
- You'll get pallet stunned and flashlight saved by fresh air.
- You'll get rubber banded around during chase and constantly lose people.
- Sometimes it'll be almost impossible to hook.
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@stvnhthr said:
I can confirm, when getting unhooked with Clown killer you do not always get borrowed time. Same thing happened to me again today. I got unhooked, saving survivor took a hit, I did not. So I ran to Clownie to block him and he hit me while I had borrowed time from being unhooked and he downed me even though I still had borrowed time.
From my understanding, there is a minor bug where getting hit by the bottle directly counts as a hit and can thus negate this.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306952#Comment_3306952
1) 60/40 which actually means 80/20, and that 20 is SWF. Sure.
2) I played 12 games as survivor today. Not a single killer was without Eruption. These players are on the Korean server. None of them are using whatever site Nightlight is. Without exaggeration, easily 95%+ of the killers I go against have Eruption.
3) it is almost the only playstyle used on this server. If you don't experience it you are either low mmr or very lucky when you do happen to play solo queue.
4) what..?
5) Of these strange tournaments I've seen there are always players who seem to be absolutely new at the game.
6) this point tells on you so badly
7) ah, because you said so
8 + 9) you really should think more about your strong bias before posting.
- Shrug. This weird attempt at an ad-hom fails...mostly because I have no idea why you're even trying it.
- Why would the Korean server have a different meta to the rest of the world? And no your claim of 12 games doesn't trump the actual data we have available.
- 'I don't believe your anecdotal evidence. Now here's my anecdotal evidence. Believe it!'.
- Your story: Killer gets a down. Killer kicks gen. Killer blocks unhook. There's a missing step in this, unless he's just leaving people slugged - in which case, BHVR have a change to slugging in the works. If he's kicking the gen after the hook, that's time enough to unhook. If the killer is kicking the gen before hooking, that's time to sabo or set up a save. Either way, you know that gen is Erupted now and have plenty of time to let go before the next down, then just get back on it.
- Community Cup...absolutely new players...I'm going to let you Google a few things and you'll see why this gave me a chuckle. (Hint: There's nobody absolutely new to the game in this tournament, it's as close to an official tournament as DbD has).
- Eruption is fine against SWF. I'll stand by that, 100%. It is a problem against solos, but only because it's difficult for solos to tell when someone is about to go down. So...make it work like PR does.
- No, because...reality? Survivors can choose to play in a SWF. Killers cannot choose not to face SWFs. You thus cannot balance the game around solos, because that makes SWF almost unbeatable at the same MMR, which would be...massively unfair to killers, unless you give them the option to not play against SWFs.
- He's talking about a killer that can mysteriously reapply Eruption to gens while also tunneling someone off hook. You're talking about a killer that can mysteriously hook someone while reapplying Eruption.
- That's not a counter argument to...literally anything I said. Remember - when you have to resort to a dodge or an ad-hom, you concede the point.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Every time this comes up I will use the same perk because it's something I want to see.
Catch Me If You Can
After performing a rushed action or stunning the killer by any means, Catch Me If You Can activates.
For the next 3 seconds, any Scratch Marks and Pools of Blood will spawn in the opposite direction as to where you ran, relative to the location of the perk's activation.
Catch Me If You Can has a cooldown of 50/45/40 seconds.
Oh man that's evil.
I'd probably say:
- Killer-
Just One Of Those Days
If you select Demogorgon, The Pig or The Cannibal, you are immediately sent to the Garden of Joy
Podcast Audience
After sacrificing two survivors, spawn an Ash and a Meg in random lockers and grant them immunity from AFK crows.
-Survivor-
Final Girl
After two survivors are sacrificed, spawn a Claudette in a random bush avoiding AFK crows.
Chain Reaction
If you are hooked within the first 5 minutes of a game starting, another survivor will disconnect.
Look At Me!
While in the exit gates, it is impossible to leave before the killer is within 5m of you.
Dem Bones
At the start of the match, spawn a Meg who does nothing but cleanse totems.
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@egg_ said:
... which is where the most effective camping situations happen. Increase the range when?
Don't get hooked in the basement.
The basement is designed to be a 'if you get hooked in there, it's hard to get you out' spot.
You'll probably have to trade.
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@KingFieldShipper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299339#Comment_3299339
hard disagree, going against good loopers is the most fun part of even playing a m1 killer
Good loopers? Sometimes.
Broken loops or essentially infinites (GoJ main structure with the wonky window spawns) - not so fun.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306451#Comment_3306451
Sorry, but your comments read like you actually don't play survivor at all.
The most common playstyle these days is for a killer to get a down, quickly kick the nearest gen to set up eruption, go back to the hook to block the unhook, and it's all just going through the motions from there. Do you think the killer is going across the map and back? No. He is staying as close as possible to the hook while not instigating other chases, just kicking the closest gens which could absolutely be part of a 3-gen which basically secures the win with one perk.
It's certainly not how I play when I do killer, which is about half the time I play. Maybe it isn't how you play, but it is by far the most common playstyle to face right now.
It has also been explained to you how overtuned Eruption is, so please don’t pretend you don't understand exactly how OP it is.
Uh...what?
- Yes, I play survivor...about 60/40 in favor of killer.
- Going off Nightlight, PR is still more common than Eruption.
- That's absolutely not the most common playstyle, either in my own games or watching streamers.
- How is the killer automatically hooking folks in your equation?
- Watching the community cup, killers ran Eruption, slugged, tunneled, camped and still had close/losing games - on killer sided maps against survivor teams that had strict restrictions on what they could bring.
- Is Eruption overtuned? Against solos...I wouldn't say 'overtuned', I'd say 'annoying'. It's fine against SWF.
- We cannot balance this game around solo queue.
- What you're describing isn't what the OP is describing, and that's what I was responding to.
- Does Eruption need a change? Eh...maybe. Let it work on hook, rather than on down so it has a bit more reliable counterplay. But we both know that it won't put a dent in the complaining.
@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306332#Comment_3306332
You can tone down the numbers to allow the perk to be less severe and still do its intended job. 15 seconds of Incapacitation instead of 25, and making Incapacitation apply only to the survivors repairing whichever Erupted gen has the most progress would be fair.
No, that would completely gut the perk.
Keep it as is, make it work on hook rather than on down so folks can counter it in solo a bit easier.
@Monlyth said:
Killers would most likely engage in this sort of behavior with or without Eruption. It's unwise to commit to another chase when you have an impending unhook to punish unless you're confident you can end said chase very quickly.
Still, you need to keep yourself busy somehow before the unhooker comes. So you go to the nearest gen. If a survivor's there, cool, maybe you can nab a quick injury, or maybe they pre-ran and it'd take too long. Either way, since the unhooker's probably about to arrive by the time you reach that generator and you don't have time for another full chase, now's a good time to give it a quick kick and head back. Again, with or without Eruption.
And this is also a behavior that Killers will engage in whether they fully intend to tunnel or not. Going back to the hook is a guaranteed opportunity to interrupt multiple survivors at once, and likely to get an easy hit too.
Yeah, this stuff grinds my gears a bit.
I hook someone, but there's a survivor following me like a puppy and immediately tries to unhook in my face. So, okay? I let them unhook, down them and hook them.
5 seconds later, the person who got unhooked is sitting on a gen about 2m away and gets grabbed. They then DC and call me a tunneler in postgame.
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@xCakeStick said:
I've been suffering from recent game crashes to a blue screen related to memory management. These frequent events have taken a serious toll on my games and the DC penalty time, it has increased to 5 hours due to my inconsistent experience with the game so far, and it's making it hard to play when most of time everyone is leaving servers around the EU to do with the laggy servers that we're experiencing, so half of the time I don't get a full decent game. Is there anyway to solve this, please?
You'll need to figure out what's causing the issue.
If it's just DbD, put in a bug report. But this sounds like a hardware issue, or quite possibly Windows pooping the bed. Maybe Google the exact error and go from there?
Unfortunately, while this may sound unsympathetic - it's not fair to the other players in the game to waste their time with a 3v1, which is why the penalty is there.
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@RiskyKara said:
I know this isn't necessarily an original take but it's definitely something I've been noticing. There's this constant gameplay loop of a killer getting their first down, leaving to kick gens, then returning to tunnel out. In my observation that's because Eruption only works if you can snowball kills, and tunneling the injured survivor out is the quickest way to keep Eruption proccing.
This feels like a problem to me because it denies survivors any meaningful gameplay where their choices aren't significant at all. With constant incapacitation (sometimes coupled with pain res/dead mans switch.) It becomes this wretched game of just staring at a generator just waiting to do something meaningful only to have any meaningful contribution stripped from you entirely.
It's not only boring, and annoying it's also very powerful. This is combining three of some of the most powerful concepts Killers can play with. Tunneling survivors out have the benefit of turning the game into a 3v1 incredibly fast. It also means survivors are likely to kill themselves through trying to be altruistic. Additionally this combination of perks regresses gens then simultaneously makes sure that survivors cannot do anything for extended periods of time.
Now that's not to say that Killers shouldn't get powerful tools, they absolutely should. But I believe that it creates this unhealthy gameplay loop where in both instances (Being the tunneled, and the other survivors in the game) survivors are just resigned to accept fate. This is especially true in solo queue.
Unfortunately, I don't really have any suggestions or ideas on how to improve this. I've found myself rolling my eyes when I see someone hard tunnel on their first kill because "Oh I bet you have eruption don't you?" and voila, in every single case the past few days they do. As a survivor main it is getting to a point where I'm feeling the urge to just kill myself whenever I see another tunneling eruption player or doing something more meaningful with my time. I probably should do either, after all this is just a game and if I'm not having fun why am I still here. Force of habit I suppose.
Killers tunnel because if you try to two hook everyone before killing anyone, you've probably already lost. Against decent opponents, you have to try and eliminate someone early. Yes, it's not especially fun for that person, but you can't exactly blame the killer for approaching the game like this.
Eruption is popular because it's the most effective form of regression killers have access to at present.
Once the forums get it Thana'd, it'll be PR+DMS every game until that gets nerfed too. Then probably CoB and Overcharge. And on and on we go.
That said - Eruption and tunneling don't really go well together, because once it triggers you need to reapply it. And why is the tunneled person sticking around while they reapply? I'm...not seeing it.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306361#Comment_3306361
cause the survivors are comp survivors who are training for this scenraios and have a gameplan, now compare that to your average eruption + tunneling solo q exp.
You can't balance this game around solo queue, because that makes SWF literally unbeatable.
Survivors can choose to play in a SWF. Killers can't choose not to face SWFs.
Thus, you have to balance this game around killer versus SWF. It's the best and most fair option out of a bunch of bad ones.
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@Heytherebigguy said:
Well, I'm not familiar with many games where as much as u go higher in "MMR", the more you have to use skillless methods to win, for both sides.
Everyone and their sisters know that tunneling on 5 gens/gen rushing and splitting on gens are the best tactics to win easily in a dbd match. why would a killer start a new chase, with another 3k hour survivor, just to put him on first hook, while he can already go after an injured one, eat his OTR and get a second hook, camp him and get all the survivors leave their gens to save and tunnel him again?
The big streamers would never tunnel on 5 gens/camp first hook(unless they're meming). you know why?
Because while this whole forum protcets the "VaLiD TaCtIC!!!" agenda, everyone deep in their hearts know that even a 5 year old can win a dbd match using these tactics. you show no skill. it's like me playing a fighting game and then just standing still and my opponnent loses LOL, imagine how dumb it sounds, but that's how dbd works.
The most skill less methods are the best to win in this weird game, that's why tunneling and gen rushing are getting shame, not because of salt(well, a bit) but because literally a 7 year old kid can get the same result as.. YOU SIR, WITH 3K HOURS(looking at you, wraith mains).
So until the devs won't find a way to make skill matter, your wins WON'T feel earned. keep lying to yourself, If you tunnel on 5 gens or gen rush with your toolboxes and hide when the killer comes to your gen, you don't earn your wins, you have no real skill, you cheese them by doing a "TACTIC" that everyone can do without trying, even my grandma.
Uh...
Did you watch the Community Cup?
Plenty of camping, tunneling and slugging. And yet - even with the survivors heavily restricted on what they could bring, killers had a really tough time of it.
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@Jinxed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305869#Comment_3305869
It's not even the winning, I don't mind losing. It's the hopelessness of it all, like there's no chance to even get decent points or a few fun chases if you're getting camped.
This, right here, is one of my core gripes of playing survivor.
You get downed and camped - there's zero reason to stick around to help your team, because you get almost no reward - you're going to depip either way, and earn almost no BP.
What would be smart is for folks on the hook to be treated like being in chase - so you get BP for stuff everyone else accomplishes while you stick it out.
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@ElizaSteph said:
Since the big update I see a lot of different survivor builds from hyper focus based ones to fun head on or object builds. Sometimes the meta shows up on one or two players in my games but I see a lot of diversity for the most part. Killer wise though all.I. Have.gone.against.is.eruption + call of brine. Without exaggeration I’ve gone 20 plus games in a row seeing this duo.
It is so frustrating bc if I was in a swf eruption would do little bc of call outs but for solo que it’s immensely annoying and boring to see this. The devs wanted to shake up the meta so they made most of the surv perks that were used often pretty bad without replacing them with new better ones, but in contrast killers got nerfed gen regression—and then new better gen regression???
I know gens go fast so slow downs are needed for most killers, but without fixing anything else the games are just the same thing, in my mmr anyway. Killer kicks gen with call of brine + eruption, camps it for a few seconds so you can’t tap it immediately or chases you away just long enough for progression to go down a good bit, leaves, then someone gets downed before you can finish it (bc call of brine regressed it) and then it blows up and you can’t do anything for half a minute 😭. And when there’s a three gen and they camp it early game it’s even more unbearble, bc half the time your teammates don’t notice it or can’t do them bc they patrol it all match. I just wanna have fun games not play gen jokey 24/7 🤦🏽♀️.
I want to run perks that allow me to have fun and allow the killer to have fun, so they don’t have to deal with dead hard and hyper focus every game (bc those aren’t really “fun” for either side in my opinion. I rather run roulette builds to try and get value from ######### perks like buckle up) but I can’t bc they don’t help in games like this. If I wanna run head on, flip flop, premonition and whatever else it basically screws everyone else over bc it won’t help nearly as much against slow down meta as less fun perks will :/.
im sure it sucks for killers too though bc they don’t get to experiment more with fun builds. Unless you guys have fun with slow downs? I figure maybe you can relax and enjoy chase more bc of slow downs but surely you’d have even more fun if you could dabble with cute little niche perks too.
I wonder if they run these builds bc they assume survivors will run meta, and survivors only run meta bc killers run meta etc. But again, I don’t see surv meta as much so idk.
tldr I’m so bored of eruption call of brine meta bc it feels like a big stomp on solo que and I just wanna run buckle up and have fun
Eruption might need a look, but right now the meta for killers seems to be 'hard regression', while in SWFs it's 'do gets really fast, use Fogwise'.
Also - you aren't seeing it every game. Even Nightlight, which is generally high MMR games (where you'd expect to see meta perks) only has it at 18-20%. I don't think the killer meta has ever been more varied perks wise - I also see a lot of Surge, PR and even the odd Overcharge. Hell, sometimes even Penti.
Also also - killers run regression because right now, they need it. And because most of their other perks are either info based, which you don't want too much of, extremely niche or really, really bad.
Also also also - I've had games recently where I just couldn't kill people fast enough, despite short chases, to counter how fast the gens are flying with some of the crazier new survivor perks.
@jajay119 said:
Three survivors are running Hyperfocus + stakeout though, so it's necessary.
I'm much, much more scared of Fogwise, PTS and Hyperfocus, maybe with Potential Energy to explode the last gen.
Stake out can be really nasty when they send you to The Game though. Had a bizarre game on there where people weren't even trying to evade me much - just drop pallet, get hit, drop another pallet, go down - but the gens were gone before I knew what happened.
Sub 7 minute game, including about two full minutes of me trying to make something happen at the gates. First time in a long while where I've used the term 'genrush' without feeling hyperbolic.
@ElizaSteph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306081#Comment_3306081
I see those in my games too but I also see plenty of variety though, it’s not every single one of my matches that I see them on all of my teammates. It’s true that there’s four so there’s a smaller chance of everyone running the same thing, but I mean I’ve been playing almost every day the past month and every killer save for maybe 1/20ish is running those two perks. I see maybe 2/4 survivors running full meta and a lot more random perks in play mixed in.
Not trying to be bias, saying one side is using meta more often simply because they got a meta boost and the other didn’t doesn’t seem to be something to have a bias over anyway. It doesn’t mean one side is holier than thou or survivors are better sports or something, I just noticed surv meta has changed bc of nerfs so second chance isn’t the only thing we see anymore, while killers in my games are not cycling out those two perks as much.
I also barely see otr or unbreakable in my games now, perhaps bc of the otr nerf and upcoming endgame slug changes. I only see resilience and windows really often, with adrenaline in the middle somewhere. I do still see dead hard on at least 1-2 people, but lithe and balanced are way more common now! Which is a nice change. I still think the changes overall just forced survs to alter builds a bit more.
I really, really don't mind seeing most of those though. It's when they go for a full 'explode all the gens' build in an SWF that it gets a bit much.
Killers don't run regression perks because they are especially fun or engaging to use.
They run them because:
- You don't know if your next opponents are going to be solo puppies or SWF pit bulls, and it's better to be safe than sorry.
- Some of the new survivor perks are busted when you face off against a SWF.
- Non regression perks that aren't info based are either extremely niche or borderline useless.
I do see a lot of Unbreakable though.
@NewPlayer100102 said:
I took all the gen regression perks out and replaced them with some random aura things+ scourge hook pain resonance across all the killers I play, and now run just these sets for 3 or so hours at a time.
I have more fun, because camping a 3 gen is not fun.
I don't break off chase, I don't switch targets, I just chase until they are down. This is actually fun.
Since I'm not breaking chase and just hitting, it has happened that all four wind up slugged. I get one up and restart the chases.
I don't kick gens because it was never fun.
If I'm facing a SWF of 3 or more, I just lose, and that'd be fine, except they act like ******** most of the time, if they win(some SWF do stupid things like mob starstruck)
If I want to win, I change the perks back.
I'm not implying that anyone should do this, just stating that it is it's own type of fun, and for me at least it beats what the gen perks have to offer from the killer side, fun wise.
On survivor solo I started running all gen rush perks. This is actually fun.
That's how I like to play too - lots of chasing. It's where the game is generally the most enjoyable.
However, there...really aren't that many good perks to help in chase. STBFL is decent on some killers, but also a risky play. Bamboozle and Starstruck are niche. The rest almost unambiguously sucks.
You have to buy yourself time for those fun chases somehow. Sadly - regression is sort of mandatory and, after the nerfs, one slot doesn't really cut it anymore.