StarLost
StarLost
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@Brokenbones said:
Some people would rather wait 5 minutes then stay in a certain match
the DC penalty system doesn't keep track of how many times you've DCed, only how many times you've DCed recently meaning you can still DC a few times and not worry about getting a long penalty.
It should probably be substantially stricter then, because I see it too frequently for it to be 'once in a while'. LoL pretty much fixed this issue with LeaverBuster.
@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2551896#Comment_2551896
I mean you’re question was very vague in you’re just asking why survivors DC. You don’t ask why they DC after getting downed, because otherwise my answer would’ve just been cut down to “entitlement.”
Was it? I thought that was implied in my OP.
What grinds my grapes isn't just that it means that I get less BP, or that it's basically messing around 4 other people out of sheer selfishness, but it creates a situation where now either I have to be a jerk and all-kill the other side, or deliberately hold back to give them a chance.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Leatherface... Like, seriously. Spirit is better than Nurse for console, but after the nerfs, I just don't get why people even bother.
Aside from the addons, the Spirit nerf isn't really going to hurt too much aside from pretty high tier mindgames. She's still going to be a hypermobile killing machine, and still very much 'A' tier, alongside Hag and Blight.
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@GannTM said:
Reasons:
- Internet crashes
- Game gets BHVR’d
- Entitlement
- Games getting held hostage (understandable DC)
- Their pizza arrived
It's definitely not internet issues - it's always when I either down, or more likely hook someone.
If your pizza arrives, why not just AFK? I've had this happen on killer before, and I've managed to come back and still do okay.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2550665#Comment_2550665
Yes, anything perfect is uncounterable.
This is still counterable. Doing a 180, even against the best killer players in the world (watching streams) will get you away and gone at least half the time. Against terrible nurses (like me), it's more like 99%
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2551266#Comment_2551266
I can show you the whole Vod of it...
i don't fuggin lie about my claims when i back em up,
Regardless, my point stands.
Why did you teabag him in the exit gates after you thrashed him?
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548925#Comment_2548925
We didn't even cause anything to begin with... the guy literally was doin' adept freddy with a blackward. which we didn't know about until the end. that's when he started making said threats...
and it's not my fault when someone takes the game too seriously. (Like said person i just described) plus we didn't say anything else other than gg, at the endgame..
You teabagged at the exit gates - rubbing your stomp in his face.
He definitely shouldn't have reacted like that, but you started it.
And no, I don't believe that you just said 'GG' in the endgame. People don't taunt at the exit gates and not BM in post-game.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Don't need to show the killer, just a survivor aura change when within x (facecamping) meters
It would have to be very small, and only activate after a set time. Otherwise, on some maps, I wouldn't be able to path past a hook on my way elsewhere without telling survivors exactly where I am.
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549782#Comment_2549782
I agree that the distance would probably need to be closer to 8-10 meters.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549785#Comment_2549785
Eh, if survivors are all swarming the hook I also would not consider that camping, because they are giving you a reason to stick around.
Sure.
But my point is that other players would. 'Camping' is so, so often just an excuse for 'I did something really silly, got downed, and want to make it someone else's fault'.
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@latinfla4 said:
I find I have to run at least corrupt and ruin with bbq (for the grind) leaving 1 perk (depending on which killer I use).
How about the rest of you? Do you feel you need to run gen regression perks?
Usually only 1. I like to have at least two perks dedicated to information gaining (Discordance, Tink, really need to unlock Retribution) or one perk and BBQ for the BP gain (honestly, this should just be baseline - game is such a grind without it).
I prefer Pop (or even Surge on some killers) to Ruin, but I absolutely have to run at least 1.
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@Adjatha said:
I don't mind some kind of way to encourage killers to leave hooks. Even if it's some kind of fresh new anti-killer baked-in system. PROVIDED that there is some kind of answer to the "survivors standing out in the open, just outside of catch-able distance, staring at the killer like he's a very interesting bird" problem that promotes camping.
Seriously, it's not camping if your team are all lined up right near the hook, just staring at you and hoping the killer will walk away. The game has STEALTH for a reason. If survivors can't be bothered to sneak or even to ACT like the killer is supposed to be the power role, I'm not going to just give them a completely free unhooking.
Yeah. This is also true. It's really hard to work in a system that doesn't turn into a substantial nerf to all killers in general.
The problem is that 'camping' is, in and of itself, not something that is easy to define. I get accused of camping constantly, despite actively trying to avoid it.
- Run into a survivor coming to unhook - camper.
- Survivor runs into you after being unhooked - camper.
- You patrol back past a hooked survivor on your way to another gen and someone moving in to unhook runs away, gets chased and downed - camper.
- Survivor follows you while you are trying to hook, gets damaged bodyblocking, then you chase them after the hook and down them - total camper.
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@GannTM said:
I've been running this on Spirit lately and I think it's actually a very strong combo that could work well on a lot of killers. It's Hex: Retribution + Hex: Plaything. This does come with the risk of getting Retribution cleansed early in the game but it still has the potential to give you 50 seconds of aura reading if you hook all the survivors and they go for their Plaything totems.
Even if it's not the strongest combo, it still offers variety. I'm sure we're sick of seeing Ruin Undying Pop Tinkerer every game so give this combo a shot.
Huh.
I honestly need to try this one out. It sounds fun, without being overpoweringly strong.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I have a feeling they will opt to nerf killers instead of just making the game more solo friendly with base kit Kindred. That solution is just too simple and effective to be considered. We need more convulsion and ignoring the problem...
Base kit Kindred would be a huge defacto nerf to killers, far beyond discouraging facecamping. It would be like making BBQ baseline on killers, if not better.
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549756#Comment_2549756
Eh, I'm not that concerned with hypercompetent SWF groups calling everything out. This would be a solution for making everyone, whether solo or not, aware that facecamping is occurring, so that they can respond appropriately and work gens ASAP instead of wasting time going for a risky unhook trade.
Even mediocre SWF teams can easily communicate 'hey, I'm being camped, be careful'.
Your solution, or C3Tooth's solution would be incredible baseline buffs to survivors, SWF and otherwise. 16m is far, far too big - not only would this stop proxy camping, but it would provide far too much information.
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@Labrac said:
I don't like how impactful perks on this game are. The difference between having Ruin or Pop compared to not having them is huge and it makes running other perks kind of "meh". I think perks should be good but not that game changing, imo the ideal level are perks like BBQ and STBFL where they provide strong effects but they aren't super insanely S tier perks.
Of course this applies to both sides. Dead Hard and Iron Will alone make literally every other chase or stealth focused perk obsolete.
I...sort of agree, but it would require such a massive, from-the-ground-up reworking of not only perks, but the entire flow and speed of the game that it's sort of a fait accompli at this point.
Playing without regression/generator info perks on a killer that has limited map presence is horrific, especially on larger or more vertical maps. Survivors can just rotate on and off gens and, assuming that skill is relatively similar on both sides, the gates will be open before you get your second kill unless you get very lucky patrolling.
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@Raccoon said:
Totally not expecting to be in the majority, but I appreciate any and all replies :3
Yes
I do wish that it was a bit more nuanced on the survivor side of things, and it feels like it's naturally going to increase killer MMR faster than it probably should (depending on whether a 2-kill is a net gain, a net loss or neutral) - but I actually don't hate it.
MMR systems are really difficult to get right, even in relatively simple games.
I do expect it to be further refined going forward.
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@DawnMad said:
First of all I should mention I don't have the Pinhead DLC yet, waiting for a discount. This is all from my experiences facing the perk or watching people use it.
Not on every killer but on killers like Bubba, Oni etc. Hex: Plaything sounds like a very strong perk. It works as a stealth perk that lets you get closer to survivors before they start running and usually gets you a free hit or a down in the case of killers like Bubba, it works as a slowdown perk where if they want to get rid of it they have to spend time looking for and doing up to 5 totems, it works as an information perk because whenever a Hex pops you get a notification and finally it gets rid of DS unlike killer based actions like Demo's portals, Pig's boxes, Plague's fountains etc. And it does all of these with zero input from the killer, which is the best part of all of this.
In builds that doesn't involve other hex perks and on killers who benefit from stealth a lot, this perk feels like it should be meta. It feels weird how rarely I see it being used outside Pinheads.
It's really cool, but very prone to RNG cleanses, especially on smaller maps. 16m is quite a large radius.
That said, I'm currently trying to make room for it on a number of killers, especially speedy ones or killers with instadown potential.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549724#Comment_2549724
I would have Survivor's aura turn to a difference color if Killer is 16m close. So you know Killer is near hook but not exactly where.
This isn't terrible, but 16m is still way too large. This would completely nullify proxy-camping, which the devs specifically stated they didn't want to happen. 10m sounds much fairer.
@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549743#Comment_2549743
I rescind my Kindred suggestion, @C3Tooth had a way better idea.
I like it somewhat, but the numbers would have to be almost halved for this not to exceed it's purpose.
The problem though isn't just knowing the killer is there. SWF groups are already calling this out anyway.
The problem is that you won't be able to unhook without getting grabbed, or at best taking a hit and probably having the unhooked person downed again. Which is why I suggested the movement speed penalty which would eventually make an actual facecamper nearly immobile until you are both away.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549683#Comment_2549683
The benefits of No Mither are not worth the downside. Distressing has limited uses, but doesn't really hurt most killers. Survivors are just going to be confused by your terror radius.
I experimented a lot with Distressing, and this isn't the case beyond extremely beginner level games. Even at my own low-intermediate level, all that happens is survivors peel off and hide 2-3 seconds earlier (huge), before either running or going back to their gen. It's almost giving them a free Spine-Chill, without any of the drawbacks. The only benefit is a paltry BP gain.
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@Rydog said:
Do we have plans to make face camping less punishing?
"Yes we do! It's been a thorn in the design side for a long time. In theory, face camping can be countered by just leaving the person on the hook and go work on the generators. In practice, it takes along time for players to realize that face camping is happening and then find a generator to work on. While we look for a solution, we don't want to remove proxy camping. This is a legitimate strategy with risks and counters. We have a new idea that we've working through recently."
To me, the obvious solution is just... make Kindred a base part of the survivor kit. Maybe don't make it affected by Open Handed, but let every survivor see the killer's aura when they are within 16 meters of a hooked teammate. Then redesign the existing Kindred perk so that it's just the "show all teammate auras when someone is hooked" part.
The corollary for killers would be to make either Whispers or Spies from the Shadows a part of the base killer kit. Probably Spies, because built-in Whispers would be a little too powerful for patrolling doors and finding people in lockers.
Short answer: no.
Long answer:
Kindred is way, way too strong to be baseline, unless you substantially nerf it (16m is enormous, and shows which direction the killer is headed in after a hook, which is insanely useful information). You'd have to make something like MAA, BBQ or Discordance baseline for killers to compensate. Your solution would be a whopping baseline buff to survivors even in games where a killer isn't facecamping. Spies is pretty weak in comparison - hell, even Whispers is.
I'd much rather see something like 'if a killer remains within 10m of a hooked survivor for more than 10 seconds, they receive a noise prompt and their aura becomes visible to survivors within 16m until they leave this radius. After another 10 seconds, the killer receives a stacking 10% movement speed penalty every 5 seconds until they leave the radius'.
A little convoluted, but this would make it easier to deal with a facecamper, and wouldn't stop proxy camping.
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@Frontdoor6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549699#Comment_2549699
Devour is useful if it lasts, but if its found early, its a slot wasted
I used to think like this, until I started trying to use it more.
Think of it like this:
Survivors don't want to totem hunt at the best of times. The only time they will usually bother is when Ruin is in play (I try not to run DH and Ruin together for this reason).
Until you hit 3 stacks and start instadowning people, they will have no idea that DH is happening. By this time, a few things have likely happened.
- Gens have been done, narrowing the area of the map where survivors will naturally be.
- Survivors have already been hooked multiple times, and at least one is probably dead.
- You have a 'feel' for where survivors will be, and they will have areas where they want to be.
- You have a good idea where the totem is located in relation to the survivors and remaining gens.
Now, they have to - even in the worst case scenario - go off the beaten path to hunt for your totems, all while you are able to regress gens and hunt *them* down - now with the ability to instadown if they make a single mistake. This usually means at least 1 more kill before they find it, and possibly multiple additional hooks - that they will have to be legitimately careful unhooking.
Combine this with Undying if you want (it now transfers the tokens) and it can become a game winner. Once it hits 5 stacks, if even a single gen remains, it's usually GG. Even if they do cleanse it, it's probably bought you valuable time at a point in the game where you most need it.
It's not great on all killers, especially ones that can already instadown - and yes, you will have the occasional game where it gets cleansed early - but it's hard to overstate how strong DH is, even if it never reaches 5 stacks.
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@Frontdoor6 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549657#Comment_2549657
Trapper and Hag: perks are good ideas, though i would've thought Hag would've got Make Your Choice. But i'll take this in mind
Leatherface: was right, i use Iron WILL. When survivors see me charging a chainsaw, they dive into a locker to avoid it, this counters that. Also, i'm not really looking for a basement build.
Pig: seems useful
Demo: its not my usual build, but Pgtw could be useful i guess
Blight: Same as Demo
Nemesis: I'll have to look into that one, if you recommend it so highly, there must be something to it
Twins: I try not to slug. Are there any perks that work while playing Victor?
Pinhead: I thought of that one too
Thanks for the answers
MYC is usually just not worth the slot. It can be...okay, if you really want to go for a camping style (I hate doing this), but for instadown power, it's usually far easier to make Devour Hope work. Once survivors realize that you have MYC, they'll begin to play around it. Plus, Devour Hope is super easy to get - Hag is one of the most underestimated killers in the game (she's easily my strongest killer, and so few groups really know how to handle her).
PGTW is a brilliant perk on 'winning' or 'even' games. It won't do much to turn around a game where you are already struggling though. If you aren't regularly ending chases with a hook, it's really mediocre.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549639#Comment_2549639
While this is probably the case, the frustrating thing is that people were saying this from literally day 1. You can't have a functioning MMR system in this game without taking into a billion different variables: killer, killer perks, survivor perks, survivor items, survivor addons, killer addons, map, map RNG, map strength for killer, pallet usage, etc. Its not that we're disappointed they couldn't do it. It's that we told them they couldn't, then laboured away for almost 2 years to then tell us they couldn't.
Sure.
But the system should absolutely not be increasing the MMR of a survivor who potatoed on gens for the entire game while penalizing their teammates who ran interference, looped and saved expertly but happened to get mumped by NOED at the end.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549610#Comment_2549610
The bad killer perks are generally worse than the survivor perks. That said, No Mither is probably the worst perk in the game.
At least No Mither has a benefit.
Distressing is, without hyperbole, worse than an empty slot on nearly every killer.
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@Pulsar said:
Trapper ~ Corrupt Intervention. It will buy you time to set-up your traps and can help make a killer three-gen which will be very strong for you.
Hag ~ Corrupt Intervention. Trap Killers benefit a lot from Corrupt, it really gives you time to set up an area.
Leatherface ~ I'm assuming that Iron Will is supposed to be Iron Grasp, so I'll say if you want that sort of build, run Iron Grasp, Agitation, Mad Grit and Starstruck.
Pig ~ Run PGTW. Good gen regression and can help keep those late-game gens from popping too fast.
Clown ~ Run Brutal Strength. The counter to Clown is to drop pallets, so you are gonna eat them, a lot. Brutal helps you get through them slightly faster.
Demo ~ To be honest, I recommend "Battle Demo." Enduring, Spirit Fury, PGTW and BBQ (or Ruin) with Barb's Glasses and Black Heart. It's just nice to Shred through pallets.
Oni ~ Infectious Fright. Perhaps his best perk. This will maximize the usage you get out of your Blood Fury.
Blight ~ PGTW, Undying or Tinkerer. Any of these help Blight become oppressive in his gen patrol, if you are good.
Nemesis ~ Save The Best For Last is great on Nemmy. His tentacle will let you save stacks but the cooldown reduction from STBFL is sooooo worth it.
Twins ~ Knockout. You're probably gonna be slugging anyway, so might as well use Knockout.
Pinhead ~ Hoarder's. Hoarder's will let you see when Survivors pick up the box, and the Box is his power.
Enduring and Spirit Fury can also do well on Clown, but I absolutely hate playing him so I'm far from an expert.
Absolutely yes to CI, on any 'zone control' killer, or killers that rely on getting early chases/downs/stalks. It's probably one of the two perks that I need to start using more.
Another trick - if you are trying for a 3 gen, you absolutely want to bring Surge. The second you manage to get a 3 gen (or even a decent 4 gen grouping), it becomes a gigantic wall of regression. Hag with Pop+DH+Surge+CI is quickly becoming my go to 'yeah, I need a win' build.
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@Frontdoor6 said:
I'm working on changing my killer builds, for the past few years, i've been running Whispers on every killer. But i've decided to try replacing Whispers with a more useful perk, a perfect perk for each killer. Like Strider for Spirit or Tinkerer on Hillbilly. Some i've decided, but have not yet found in the bloodweb, but some killers i've drawn a blank with.
I'm wondering if you guys can help me. We can make it into a game. I'll tell you the perks i'm using, but you guys tell me the last one and why you chose that one.
-Fill in the blanks-
- Trapper: Nurses, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Hag: Nurses, Ruin. BBQ, .....
- Leatherface: Iron Will, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Pig: Nurse, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Clown: Nurses, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Demo: Bamboozle, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Oni: Sloppy, Ruin, BBQ, ....
- Blight: Nurses, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Nemesis: Bamboozle, Ruin, BBQ, .....
- Twins: Nurses, Ruin, BBQ, ....
- Pinhead: Bamboozle, Ruin, BBQ, .....
Remember, fill in the blanks with a new perk perfect for that killer and explain your choice.
Yeah, i know, i use the same perks alot, But i find them very useful and i don't plan on swapping the mentioned perks out soon, unless i get a better build idea.
I look forward to your answers.
Honestly, why are you running BBQ and Ruin on everyone?
Ruin is incredibly dependent on map and luck - even at my terrible MMR, it gets cleansed early on at least 50% of the time, even with Undying. The only time I use Ruin now is when I'm playing an M1 killer, and I'm going all in on hexes with Retribution and Haunted Ground.
But okay:
Instadown and stealthy killers would likely get far more value out of Surge/Pop than Ruin/Undying. I'm using Surge more and more these days - it's just so good.
BBQ is okay, but mostly exists for the farm. Tink, Discordance and even Surveillance are more likely to give you better information.
On the killers you listed (that I know fairly well):
- STBFL is absolutely gorgeous on Nurse, Doctor (hah!) and any other CD based killer.
- Pig and most other M1 killers do wonderfully with Devour Hope and NOED.
- Nurses only really works well on extremely fast killers, from my experience (Blight, Wraith), and sort of forces Sloppy in another slot. Even then, I seldom use it - healing is just so fast now.
- Infectious Fright is absolutely incredible on any killer that works around short 'instadown' windows (Bubba, Myers, GF etc.). I don't usually use it as I hate slugging, but it can take you to multiple kills in a short period of time.
- Don't sleep on Monitor and Abuse, especially on killers with naturally small terror radiuses. It's hard to put objectively, but it will make chases and interceptions so much easier.
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@SweetTerror said:
The fact that BHVR admitted that they're looking into using the bots outside of the tutorial definitely put a smile on my face. I would definitely appreciate a bot mode that allowed us to practice with every killer. Nothing worse than getting stomped against a competitive survivor team with a killer you've never played before.
I'd love a bot to take over when a survivor or killer DCs or AFKs.
Being able to practice a killer would also be great, but my concern is that it, if it granted the same BP as a standard game, it may push people away from the PvP aspects of the game altogether.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549605#Comment_2549605
Killers have several useful perks that aren't meta. The problem as with survivors is their meta perks are way to strong to not use in comparison.
For example?
I'm not talking about 'meta' here. I'm talking about 'good'.
Something that is likely to be a solid choice for the majority of games, without huge trade-offs or being ridiculously easy to play around and/or negate.
Busy looking through survivor perks right now and yeah - I'm pretty confident that I'm right on this one. There are far more universally helpful perks on the survivor side of things, even compared numerically against killer perks. And keep in mind that 4x the perks will be active overall on the survivor side of things.
@Brokenbones said:
There's also some like, reverse power-creep shenanigans (I think?)
Why would anyone use something like Gearhead when Tinkerer exists
Gearhead requires 2 basic attacks, requires a survivor to ONLY hit good skills checks and ONLY in the time it's active
Or you just have Tinkerer which tells you exactly WHICH gen hit 70% and it gives you undetectable as a bonus. Wow.
I don't think Gearhead was or ever will be a good perk in it's current form. It's too likely to send you deceptive information, and you usually want information to determine your next target rapidly.
You've either hit a survivor once and will continue pursuing them, or you're carrying them to the hook - by which time you don't really have much of that 30 seconds remaining.
Also, consider that it may never activate at all, due to the 'Good' skill check requirement.
@humanbeing1704 said:
One issue is that usually the number % is low
The effect is good but the numbers? Yeah no
The best example of this I can think of is fire up
Yup. Either the numbers are too low, requires RNG on top of RNG to activate at all, or has an incredibly punishing cooldown timer for what it does.
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@botrax said:
I think for a perk to be usable by the killer they need to enter one of 2 categorie.
The first one can this perk slowdown the gen if yes can i replace it with one of the slowdown i already use most of the time its no.
2 can i track survivor with this perk and can that perk replace my tracking perk most of the time its a no but at least this perk have more chance to see play it only depend on the drawback the perk will have.
All the other perk they make most of the time get try but they are rapidly going in the categorie if i want to meme i will use those perk
The reason for this is the current meta, plus the nature of playing killer right now.
On any killer without the ability to move rapidly over the map, not bringing regression perks is near suicide. A coordinated team will brute force their way through gens faster than you can possibly respond to, even if you are able to chase them off.
Information perks are similar. Without them, it's far too easy for a team of survivors to simply waddle around in the bushes, and you've lost 4 gens before you even get a real chase.
Unless you are going to camp and/or tunnel people down, you absolutely need one, if not both of the above.
@thrawn3054 said:
That's basically the problem with every non meta perk for both sides.
Not really. There are some bad survivor perks (far fewer after the next patch), but most of them will at least have some impact on how a match plays out.
I don't think there is anything like Distressing and Dying Light in survivor perks, stuff that works out at a defacto buff for the other side if you pick it.
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@Sluzzy said:
There was nothing OP about these perks at all. So now their usefulness was heavily reduced to a tiny radius so the killer can easily hear it and instantly remove it. Wow.
So now survivor has to spend a lot of precious time and spend even more time blessing it before it activates when you can practically work on a gen instead. These perks were already a buff to killer because survivor did a secondary objective to get any benefit from the perk. 24 seconds to bless a perk and killer can easily turn it off in 1 sec. What happens if killer uses new buffed killer perk that causes the totem blessing to take twice as long? I’m sure this didn’t get nerfed did it? Why is it fair he can still remove it in only 1 sec? Just bring self-care instead of this if you want to heal.
Survivor meta remains unchanged.
Sluzzy, reading the majority of your comments on these forums makes me wonder exactly what you want out of this game. A 3-4 man escape every time?
Boon totems were way, way too strong in their former incarnation. By stacking their effects, a coordinated group of survivors could become nearly immortal.
Beyond this, they have endless benefits over hex totems.
- They can be resummoned, endlessly.
- There is only one killer to look for them and cleanse.
- Killers are already far more starved for time than survivors.
As they stand, they will provide a powerful benefit, but will require a bit of foresight and cooperation to get the most out of.
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@Hex_Llama said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549164#Comment_2549164
Another way to think of it would be that, if you play as scummy as possible, the system will consider you a more difficult opponent, and match you with stronger survivors who might be harder to railroad.
This is fair.
@Crowman said:
From how the devs worded it, the killer is essentially playing 4 games at once. Each survivor the killer kills gives him mmr increase with the first survivor killed giving the most, but each survivor that leaves via exit gate will decrease his mmr.
So a 1K with 3 survivors leaving via exit gate will still cause the killer to lose MMR, but less than if all 4 escaped.
Ah, yeah. It is pretty ambiguous and confusing. I'd really like to know what the specific numbers are, even if my own MMR is hidden.
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@Nomadd said:
If Patrick is LEAD game designer, I have the answer why this game is in such horrible state.
Is it?
I have a lot of gripes (Wraith nerf, about 2/3 of killer perks being completely useless and half the killers being mediocre, cheaters, SBMM quirks, Haddonfield) - but compared to when I started playing just over a year ago, it's so, so much better.
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@Pulsar said:
Remember guys, this system took 2 years to develop and is as good at deciphering skill as the last one.
It's way better than the last one.
Remember that killers had literally no matchmaking for ages, and you'd constantly find yourself being put up against full red-rank SWF groups as a purple/green ranked killer.
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@Seraphor said:
Considering the old rank based matchmaking, it was a realy low bar to improve upon. So I'm not really surprised that basing MMR off kills/escapes is still a better system.
After all, if you're consistently getting kills/escapes, then you're obviously doing something right, and your opponents are obviously below your skill level.
Remember that the 'old rank based matchmaking' was actually 'no matchmaking' for killers, for pretty much the entire last 9 months before SBMM. It was causing endless queue timers, and a developer confirmed that they had indefinitely disabled killer matchmaking back in...February? I believe.
SBMM has some annoying features, but man - that was miserable.
@lauraa said:
I supported SBMM from the get go. From the latest testing, my experience was overall positive. I loved the idea of it, too. I thought one of the main points of it was to more accurately assess your skill by taking multiple factors into consideration aside from kills/escapes/emblems
Iirc, a developer themselves even said they tested mmr purely by kills/escapes in the past and it sucked. So.....what's different now? I thought this new algorithm was supposed to be smarter. I thought that the game would finally be able to better assess the skills of a 0K killer and a first-dead Survivor but guess not.
I'm willing to not use the "L" word regarding Pinhead because that is likely out of BHVR's control(shame, they go above and beyond once and somebody else has to come in ruin all that hard work and effort) but this doesn't have that same excuse.
What happened to the SBMM logic from the last test? Because I'd be willing to bet two Double Cheeseburgers that the SBMM we have now is completely different, more specifically they trashed everything at the last second and replaced it all with a burning tire.
I really thought lazy, low effort play styles would be punished with MMR but I suppose I was the real sucker this whole time?
Welp, now I'm feeling kinda spiteful, not gonna lie. This whole time I've been going "easy" by playing full aggro Legion and Nemesis with 0 gen regression. I guess after 7PM I'm just gonna play Demogorgon only because he is IMO the best Anti-SWF killer in the game with the upcoming Spirit changes and is an easy 4k machine.
I certainly hoped that it was a bit more sophisticated than 'escape = MMR increase, death = MMR decrease' as this works completely contrary to how genuinely skilled players actually behave. If you lead the killer on a 2 minute chase leading to the last 3 gens being popped, but then get clobbered by NOED, your MMR should certainly not be penalized.
All this is does is encourage selfish behavior from survivors, and frustrating 'hide and seek' play against killers.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549117#Comment_2549117
When I think of killers and their balancing, I generally separate the killer's power from the add-ons. The reason I do that is, regardless to popular belief with some killers, you are not forced to run certain add-ons or any add-ons for that matter. So to me, I could care less if 100% of Ghost Face players used that add-on combo, Ghost Face was not nerfed, his add-ons were. It doesn't mean that if you ran those two add-ons it won't feel like a nerf, but like you said and how I'm thinking, it's only a nerf if you run those two add-ons. However, Ghost Face himself was not nerfed.
We are bickering over semantics at this point. Whether or not it's the killer's base kit or the defacto mandatory addons that were nerfed isn't relevant. What I'm saying is that, when played as most moderately skilled GF's usually do, the changes amount to a nerf to the killer overall.
@Axx said:
The average player is quite low skill from what I have seen over the years. They complain about weak killers that competent survivor players have no issue with all the time. Why is anyone surprised that Wraith is getting nerfed? He has been the main focus of survivor main complaining since Freddy was nerfed.
Eh. The average player is averagely skilled. That's...sort of what 'average' means. But yes, if Wraith was too difficult for intermediate and beginner players to deal with, he definitely needed some help in his basekit to prevent him from being absolute doo-doo in higher skill matches, where he was already very mediocre.
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@Firellius said:
Boon totems aren't out yet, but I suspect they're more fair. There's quite a few hooks and eyes on the perk type that help tone it down, whereas old Undying was just a combination of fire & forget and RNG.
For a coordinated team, boons are going to be far more oppressive than Undying.
Cleansing isn't really going to be an option - not only is there only 1 killer, who is inevitably pressed for time as is, but unlike killer totems, they can be resummoned.
And that's taking the ridiculous 'stack a few totems and you can literally outheal the killer between attacks' videos out of the equation.
I'd predict that they turn out to be incredibly punishing for killers who struggle with map pressure as is, remain as they are for a few months (with killers saying they are OP, and survivors defending them and telling killers to l2p) and then receive a hefty nerf.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549082#Comment_2549082
The Claudette was the first one hooked. She was injured. I was healthy. There was blood and scratch marks as she ran away.
YET, the killer still spent the extra THIRTY SECONDS just LOOKING for me. Then more time just to injure me!
It was not in their best interest, it was out of harassment, for who knows why! That's what makes me angry
Ah...okay. I think I might understand why he did that.
If I have a sense that I'm against a weaker team, particularly one with an AFK or DC, I'll do my best to avoid tunneling someone, and wherever possible chase and hook a different survivor each time. Could this have been the case?
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548591#Comment_2548591
So Ghost Face was not nerfed. His add-ons were.
We are splitting hairs here.
I'm saying that most GF players ran those addons anyway, much as the old Wraith would run specific addons baseline.
Taking the nerf into account, a GF running those addons (as is standard) is weaker than before. It only amounts to a buff if you don't run those addons.
What would have made sense, would be to make GF's cooldown equal to the old addon amount, and then rework those addons.
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@Duskk said:
During the Q&A stream today the devs confirmed that Legion is one of the two killers up next that they are taking a look at. I am very excited, my months of crying on the forums has been answered and my cause is over. Really hyped about what they are gonna do!!
I'd be legitimately excited to see Legion buffed. Such a fun killer to play, but man - it feels like I'm banging my head into a wall.
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@Nos37 said:
I don't know what it is...
Three of us on a gen at the start. Huntress shows up. We all run away. I (Dwight) get chased. That's fine. It happens. I figured It was because of my toolbox, so I dropped it before being hit in case of Franklin's.
Later on, three gens pop back-to-back. Huntress shows up to my gen and chases and hooks me.
After I'm unhooked and healed, Claudette cleanses her hex totem two tiles away and the killer chases me instead of her.
I manage to catch up to the Claudette, break line-of-sight with the killer at the Wretched Shop main building, and sneak away. The killer finds Claudette, injures her, and lets her go free. Then she spends another 30s searching the area for me, checking all the nooks and crannies. I snuck away to another tile, but that didn't stop her search.
She eventually finds me, and I quit the match after she injures me.
If you're going to make it THAT obvious that you're intentionally picking on me, unprovoked, then FOG YOU!
I called them out in a message and they responded with "You were the easiest to find, so I kept chasing you." As if they hadn't just spent 30s looking for me JUST AFTER injuring the Claudette (no Iron Will on her) and letting her go free! There was an AFK Quentin for the majority of the match, yet I was "easier to find." Pfft
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Can we get a survivor perk that lets us LOOK LIKE ANOTHER SURVIVOR?
Press the Activate button while being unhooked to take on the appearance of your rescuer (or another random survivor).
This is getting ridiculous. My FIRST match playing as Survivor in over a week, and I'm IMMEDIATELY reminded why I stopped playing survivor.
I don't get what you are angry about here. The killer decided that it was in their best interests to get you out of the game first. It sounds like he was chasing you, decided that you were an easier target than the Claudette and played accordingly.
If I see an AFK survivor, I'll usually leave them alone, as I don't know if they just temporarily stepped away to deal with a sudden phonecall or something.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2549064#Comment_2549064
For every survivor that escapes, except through the Hatch, the killer will lose MMR. They will just gain less for every new kill, while still gaining MMR.
If you only got 1 kill, you would lose MMR.
I am so, so confused right now.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
1 kill is not going to increase your mmr substantially. I have already tested that extensively going for Claudette's mask.
The issue is more that it's still going to increase it, meaning that you will only lose MMR on complete shutout games. This means that killers are going to cluster around a much higher natural MMR than survivors will, resulting in very mismatched games - seemingly intentionally.
Do not like.
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@skylerbound said:
Based on the Q&A, 1 kill ups your MMR as killer… which is ridiculous and super easy for even super inexperienced killers to climb. If you facecamp one person, your mmr rises.
it’s counterproductive to me to go for kills if I have to resort to camping to secure 1 kill.
Well, this would certainly explain me running into terrifyingly coordinated groups one after the other, with me having to sweat for a single kill.
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@vacaman said:
Deadhard. It's so good that even if you don't run it you will still get value of this perk because the killer will be paranoid.
Bizarrely, DH doesn't phase me that much on most killers. It's annoying, sure - but it takes a bit of skill to use right and I can play around it.
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@anarchy753 said:
I'm always skeptical of those sorts of "best build" videos regardless of who makes them.
Personally I hate corrupt intervention and see it as an absolute wasted perk slot, I feel like people would get more done in a game if they weren't relying on perks like ruin and corrupt that are literally gone a couple of minutes in. Let alone quite often guaranteeing that late game gens are spread out making the later stages where you're meant to be stronger harder.
Best builds are absolutely a matter of taste and just because a youtuber says their opinion, it doesn't mean it's fact.
It's a toughie. On M1 killers, getting some early hooks or even injuries up is so incredibly important, as it throws off the survivor team's rhythm and gives you an opening to make something happen before they start slamming out gens.
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Before the nerf, OoO scared me more than any other perk. In a coordinated group, it made it nearly impossible to take a group by surprise, and you'd find yourself constantly seeing gens pop in the distance without even really getting chases.
Now? Decisive Strike is, by a mile, the perk I hate most - for one reason only. While it can't really turn a winning game into a losing game for me, it can easily turn a losing game into a complete stomp. There are few things that make me more frustrated than finally grabbing a survivor on their way to the exit, hoping to at least get 1 kill in the damn game, only to get DSed and have them run off into the distance. Rrgh.
Adrenaline is similar in this regard.
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Well, sure?
They are the only two reliable tools to regress gens, and you are seeing them because without them, it's very, very hard to have a meaningful impact on the game as about half the killer roster. I'm sure every killer will have had games that, despite chasing well and downing survivors reliably, they've simply been brute forced by coordinated groups rotating on and off gens. It's frustrating and makes it feel as if there was literally nothing you could have done to win.
You are complaining about a symptom of a much worse disease.
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@Verconissp said:
Trust me. i wish to have fun too...
But just recently. i just had someone made a Actual Death Threat against me because we 4 outted a black ward freddy...
he had double ultra rares with his perks. course we didn't know it at the time and we tbagged at the exit gate afterwards...
...Lets just say i'm sleeping with a knife next to my hand at night,
While of course threats and the like aren't ever acceptable, you started it by gloating and being jerks after you got an easy win, causing someone to waste some very nice addons.
If you want to poke someone, don't be surprised when they poke back.
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@EntitySpawn said:
No.
Honestly puts me off playing. Like what's the point in even having it if it's not on skill. Nothing is more a kick in the balls that you doing insane chases and lots of gens and carrying a game to die on first hook while others escape and be told you lost. Like no I didn't. And the less you escape the worse teams youd get, worse teams means less Escaping etc.
ITS A JOKE!
btw my nemesis is still stupid high mmr and iv barely played him. Thanks for sharing my nurse mmr with him :)
I'm not sure if it works like this. You may actually be paired with better survivors to compensate towards a certain MMR, based on the killer you are matched with.
It also means that you will face less skilled, less meta killers. You would be unlikely to face a billion Blights, Nurses, Spirits etc.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548767#Comment_2548767
I'm beginning to think that is in fact what they want. To just eliminate Solo queue after a certain amount if time because they're too incompetent to figure out how to balance Killer/SWF while Solo queue is in the mix.
Easy.
Apply a scaling MMR inflation to SWF groups. So two people playing together would have a 1.1x multiplier, 3 would have a 1.3x multiplier and 4 would have a 1.6x multiplier.
SWF groups would thus fight a proportionally more skilled killer.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548092#Comment_2548092
If people get upset because I say a killer needed some nerfs, then so be it. I think it's silly, but whatever.
It comes over as gloating.
'Nyah nyah nyah, your favorite killer is trash now and that makes me happy'.
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@JoByDaylight said:
Wraith was over-performing I believe they stated.
People on this forum need to get their heads out of their "high MMR"-asses. Not everyone plays at high MMR and the game to be balanced around the majority of the player base.
I think the nerf is coming because Wraith is so easy to pipck up and do good with even without understanding the game at all. Also it was impossible to play against him in lower ranks.
This is just my guess though.
I also believe that he only needed some add-ons nerfed, especially All seeing blood.
I'm not sure if I agree here. I'm not good at all, and even at my level survivors have figured out how to work around him.
These weren't mild nerfs to bring him inline at lower MMR either. The boost nerf makes him about as bad as he was before the buffs, if not worse.
ASB needed a nerf, sure. And maybe a small nerf to his boost. Start at like 10% and see what happens. A 20% nerf feels like BHVR saying 'we really don't want Wraith to be better than a 'C' or 'D' tier killer'.
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@ChurchofPig said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2547506#Comment_2547506
How are they nerfing Ghost Face? Recovery time is faster and they changed the recovery add-ons based on how fast his recovery is now. That doesn't sound a nerf to me. It sounds like a buff.
Most people who played Ghostface did so with these addons. Unless my math fails me, the recovery time now, with these addons, is longer than it was before.
@IronKnight55 said:
He's getting the changes he needed. Wraith is just way too unfun to go against right now.
In that case, he needs a buff somewhere else in his kit. He was mid tier at best prenerf.