StarLost
StarLost
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@Sweet_Tour said:
So just got done with a match that saw me get 3 hooks by endgame. And only at endgame because I fought a cheating nancy. Who was just a little to fast and knew every pallet location on the map and always pre dropped and sat at the pallet to gloat like she was actually good at the game when it was pretty obvious she was cheating, cause last time I checked survivors aren't speed demons.
But that leads me into my main point, Doctor is so bad at his job because the meta consists of leaving loops and not looping at all. Like he is not good at anything anymore except punishing the survivors that weren't gonna do gens anyways. He really needs some speed to catch up or something to slow them down.
Doctors base Shock range is 10 FREAKING METERS. And you have to account for slowdown and survivors moving forward so you have to be like 4 meters away from them to hit a base Shock. That's distance to land a shock that doesn't do damage. Think about that I mean Doctor is C Tier for a reason. I don't want game slowdown I want REAL POWER. Like what Nurse has, but not as strong or hard to use.
(LET ME CLARIFY) I do not use Meta on My killers, No Ruin, no corrupt, No None of that. I use BBQ but that's for BP. I use Frickin Distressing and Lightborn on Doctor. I enjoy playing the game and not being enslaved by the meta.
Doctor is mostly fine, aside from the fact that his 'shock' correctly stops pallets and vaults maybe half the time and many of his addons are weird gimmicks that usually amount to a nerf if you take them.
He's like Nemesis in that, when his mechanics work correctly, he's actually solidly mid-tier. However, they are so prone to just doing nothing that he ends up being weaker than intended.
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@pyramidheadmain6233 said:
I main Pyramid Head because of his power. He can trap survivors in vaults and pallets, hit through walls, and Mori without an offering.
Also I'm a massive Silent Hill fan.
Not really, anymore. I tend to rotate through several killers, and most of my BP goes into trying to unlock BBQ on killers I want to play (seriously, BBQ is such a mandatory perk for me that I wish the BP part was just baseline).
When I started out, I picked up Bubba specifically for BBQ. Didn't love him (pre-rework). Ended up snagging Doctor next, and loved him. Still probably my second favorite, despite him being sort of bad. Mained him until I got Hag, who is my absolute favorite.
Now, I sort of rotate through Wraith, Hag, Doctor, Pig and am currently leveling Demo and Pinhead to learn too. I'll also go back to Nemesis eventually, but the zombies are just far too annoying sometimes.
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@Citrusfruit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587971#Comment_2587971
The problem is, the game can't tell when someone is DCing out of spite, or because of a bug. In some cases, I can't move from under the hook after being unhooked and the killer immediately tunnels me and DS doesn't work because fo the de-sync. If DC pentalties were renabled, the people that are DCing out of de-sync and game breaking bugs or hackers would be subject to match making bans of possibly days.
There won't be any matches if people can't play because of matchmaking bans, and on top of that, if there were matchmaking bans enabled, less people would be playing in fear of the matchmaking bans ruining their experience because of an unplayable game.
In which case, let them appeal and have it overturned. Getting wrongfully banned in LoL was actually kind of awesome, as you'd get a butt-ton of currency as compensation.
The odds of having this bug often enough to get banned are insanely low, so there won't be that many.
I can tell that it's spite because it's a DC just before I hook, or right after I down someone. It's either someone just being a jerk because...well, killer exists, or someone deliberately trying to smurf down their MMR. Possibly someone protecting their addons (not sure if DCs work this way).
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/289733/dc-penalties-disabled-shows
Get to high ranks, you see Killer's dcing all the time.
High...ranks? Ranks haven't been a thing for ages.
High MMR, maybe? Not sure how you'd tell, with the amount of MMR smurfing going on these days.
That said, I do watch quite a bit of DbD streaming, often from survivor perspective and while I do see the occasional AFK killer, the only DCs I see are right when the game starts which could easily be inadvertent.
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@km66 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587853#Comment_2587853
Survivors are more often entitled to win? I’m not convinced of that.
And there is no way I could convince you, since I can't exactly prove it either way.
All I can say is - leave postgame chat on, and play 50 games as killer. Then play 50 games as survivor.
Make a note of how often someone is whinging about x thing in the postgame chat, or taunting the killer (teabagging/flashing vs. deliberate slugging and bleedout).
Survivors are by miles more toxic.
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@silverwolf4455 said:
I'm all for re-enabling the DC penalty but BHVR can't with the way the game is in.. literally getting pulled off hook and just stuck there so that killer can hit me down, infinite loading screens, multiple other bugs... every patch lately is a nightmare... I stay because I really love the game and wish they would do better... I was so happy this patch because of them actually working hard and release a decently sized patch. But they immediately said that it will probably not happen again... guess it was McLean before he left.. maybe in 2 or 3 more years they will iron out the bug situation... XD
Thing is - none of those are a reason to DC. It's a bug, and it happens to killers too. The only reason to DC is if the killer is legit preventing you from ending the game (bodyblocking you into a spot and going AFK) or survivors that do the same.
Moreover, I'm not seeing people DCing because of a bug. I'm seeing people DCing the second I down or hook them, which means that they are doing this out of pure spite.
@Citrusfruit said:
I think when the game is in a genuinely playable state, the DC penalty should be re-enabled immediately, but currently with de-sync, hackers running about, and random crashes despite the kill switch, I don't think it would be reasonable or fair to the player base to reactivate DC penalties just yet. Lets see how the hot fix later this week looks and then we'll see if it penalties should be back.
In the words of Spock, 'the needs of the many' and all that. The solution can't be to just give people the power to troll/grief games at will, indefinitely.
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@EntitySpawn said:
I dont get why people are so hateful to others, like seriously doesnt matter what role they're playing or if they are better or worse there is no reason to be rude, mean or just straight up disrespectful.
We're meant to be a "community" and all it ever seems to be is fighting over things or trying to upset, bully or BM someone....
Did I miss something? Like seriously take a hard look at yourself and think about your actions. It's not funny or cool to be rude. I hate how I see my teammates bully a killer, or other survivors BM other survivors, I hate the toxicity and entitlement.
Maybe just maybe we could be understanding? Polite? Somewhat nice?
Higher skill than the killer? Dont BM about it.
Someone DCs early? Dont 3man slug the others.
You lost? Just say gg
You won? Say gg
Its honestly sad that if you give compliments to people in this game even if they lost it makes there day. Just imagine how bad of a community it must be for people to never receive anything nice but instead just hate.
Yeah it's a rant, but damn do I hate horrible people, even if you ain't doing it to me personally just dont. Definitely grew up in a different generation pfft.
Slugging is a tough one, as sometimes it happens (you down someone and see someone else nearby, then can't find the original person because they crawled off to Neverland).
That said - this cuts both ways. Almost every time I wind up with a 3 or 4 man escape, I get teabagged and flashed at the exit. No matter what I do, I get berated in postgame.
I'd love to see BHVR start moderating things, because communities like this make it hard to encourage new people to try it.
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@latinfla4 said:
Seeing trappers much needed buff helps out so much to play him.
I think deathslinger should have one of his reload addons as base after his nerfing.
Any other suggestions?
It's not an addon, but BBQ (and the similar survivor BP gain perk) should be baseline, minus the other effects. It's really silly to force people to choose between a painful grind and a mandatory perk.
Addons? Hmm. Several Pig and Doctor perks immediately come to mind.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587784#Comment_2587784
If you want this to be League of Legends. Then go play League of Legends. This is Dead by Daylight a completely different game.
Shrug.
It's a good system, regardless of genre. Someone who constantly and deliberately DCs to get easier matches/troll is ruining the game for multiple people.
Why do you think this is something worth defending? Today has literally been 'survivor DCs the second I hook them', and now I have to throttle back to give everyone a chance, or I just have to wipe them - no fun either way.
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@Sweet_Tour said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587837#Comment_2587837
Well you know that blue moon thing you mentioned? I just experienced it, Freddy on Swamp as per usual. (I always ######### get swamp as him) and the survivors Gen rushed me to oblivion and annoyed me and the Claudette was cheating because she would just disappear mid chase and end up behind me like 40 meters away. I didn't DC I should have because I spent the whole match struggling to catch 2 meta monkeys. ON LOOPS I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CATCH THEM AS A ######### ANTI LOOP KILLER.
Yup. There are hackers. If I see one, I just park my killer somewhere in the open and go get a drink, and report them after the game.
This sounds like a lag-switcher.
That said, it could also be someone with a terrible connection.
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@JohnWeak said:
that many survivors feel forced to play some games when it is enabled.
Everytime a survivor is early camped or tunneled, it's 1 and sometimes even 2 survivors DCing.
It shows that some behaviors, especially camping/tunneling 1st hook are considered toxic and totally unfun by the survivors.
Haven't seen one killer DCing for the last days while i have seen at least 20 survivors DC. It means a lot.
Well, duh. And killers are 'forced' to play games where survivors want to play hide-and-seek for 45 minutes without doing gens. I've had to DC in the past where someone does this (pre AFK crows), or where you have someone who glitched themselves onto a roof somewhere.
I play both sides at maybe a 70/30 killer/survivor ratio, and survivors are far, far more entitled to a 'win' than the killer is.
Literally one in 3 games I have someone complaining at me in post-game regardless of what I do.
- Bring addons? Nah, carried. Don't mind that we had 3 toolboxes and a medkit.
- Play a strong killer or run strong perks? 'LOL crutch killer l2p ***'.
- Play a rare killer or run weird perks? 'LOL play normally ***'.
- Lose? 'LOL scrub uninstall games full'.
On the other hand, I can count the killers who have had a grizzle in postgame on my toes. And that was mostly when survivors teabagged at the exit gate and refused to end.
BHVR are taking steps to stop camping (why, I don't know - watching the best killers in the world, this seems to be the only way to deal with a good SWF on many killers). But if you teabag/flash/run a SWF stompcomp then you don't get to complain when killers also play to win.
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@Sweet_Tour said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2587784#Comment_2587784
Losing an account because you DC? No wonder that game is more notorious then DBD. But I understand losing BP isn't fun and BBQ stacks but it is what it is. This game isn't balanced enough to warrant sitting through the nonsense that can happen. (Slugged for 4 minutes, being bullied cause the map was against you and the survivors had better perks.)
Thing is - those situations arise maybe once in a blue moon. The occasional DC is fine. However, allowing people to DC at will to troll their team and deny the killer a good match is poisonous for your game.
If you are constantly DCing, you are basically a plague on the community, as you're ruining dozens of people's games on a potentially daily basis. Damn straight, you should be removed from said community.
And don't knock LoL - between the Tribunal and Leaverbuster, the game went from probably the most toxic game on the planet to the least toxic MOBA out there (which I guess is like saying the smallest elephant in the world, but it is what it is).
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@yobuddd said:
Off topic, but you mentioned Hag. For the first time ever I tried her Hand add-on (Waterlogged Hand or something like that). Anyway, it was a blast!
You can’t teleport to traps, but they have collision. Place trap in pallet, chase survivors as an M1 killer, and when they go to the pallet, they get blocked by your trap and can’t run through! Can’t even pull the pallet down! You get a free hit, they are terribly confused, and by the time they realize they have to run the other way, you’re reset and able to hit them again!
Ok, that’s all. Carry on with Ghostface discussion.
Yeah, Hag has some great addons and some borderline useless gimmick ones. I use my traps a great deal for mobility on vertical maps, and would really struggle without it.
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@Sweet_Tour said:
What are you supposed to do? Kill the other 2 survivors that's your objective after all. Go and do it, don't worry about people who DC they lose time and blood points, so they get their punishment.
@Kurri said:
DC PENALTY OFF MAKE'S THE GAME PLAYABLE
fixed*
Since the DC penalty has been turned off, I have found the game not only less stressful, but I care less about losing. Don't have to stay in games where you are just getting bullied, and not having fun. People can actually enjoy the game again, instead of just constantly being reminded why it's so bad.
The problem with this is that survivors will DC to lower their MMR (I'm not even sure if it does lower MMR now, perhaps they are trying to preserve it) - and it denies their team a win and me BP. You've not only made it easy to grief without penalty, but you're providing a direct incentive to be a jerk.
Honestly, the AFK/DC penalty should be way harsher, something like LoL's LeaverBuster where you can lose your account if you continue to do it. Your enjoyment doesn't trump the enjoyment of 4 others. If you queue up, see the game through.
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@pyramidheadmain6233 said:
I sacrificed five dollars for him because I need his "I'm All Ears" Perk, as a loyal Pyramid Head main I think it could really benefit me. Didn't want to wait for a small chance that it could appear in the Shrine of Secrets.
I got curious and actually played him, and he is without a doubt one of the most unbearable things I've ever done. Even worse than when I tried out Hag. (She's not bad, just not my playstyle.) Survivors can reveal you at ridiculous angles, and in certain maps he feels impossible to play.
Right away I immediately missed The Executioner, especially when I came to a wall with a gen being worked on behind it, and realized I didn't have Punishment of the Damned. Pyramid Head hits through walls, ignores hooks and certain perks, and can Mori without an offering. But I can't forget that his power can be baited, and caging people is very situational.
Ghostface can... what, mark people? Be only kinda stealthy? That's the only good thing about him.
I wonder what a Ghostface rework could look like....
I'm not a big Ghosty fan either. Just do what I do - play a killer you like, and pour BP into him to get his teachable.
I'm not loyal to any one killer (Hag comes close), so I can rotate through Wraith, Hag, Doctor, Pig and ...yeah, it's either going to be Demo or Pinhead (haven't decided) to level killers I don't like, like Deathslinger or Ghostface.
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@Junylar said:
Forget it, there is no such thing as "compassion" or "etiquette" in this community. Being nice is looked down upon by players, as you can see in this thread. Eat or be eaten, BM or be BM'd. Being toxic is now part of the game, if you are not - you are bad at the game.
Eh, I don't really have it in me to be toxic. I honestly feel bad for survivors sometimes, especially since maybe every second game has someone AFK or suiciding to drop their MMR.
That said, if you teabag or flick me, I'm going to attempt to remove you from the match, even at the expense of other objectives. If you want my attention so badly, do not complain when you get it.
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@GuyFawx said:
Killers are punished for camping and tunneling your team mates need to stop trying to go for that save unless they have borrowed time and let gens pop off one after another. Like any dog you have to train bad manners and force them off of the player in order to get them away from those dying on a hook.
Oh man does this frustrate me.
If you are running around the hook while I'm hooking, then I hook and down you - it's not camping.
If you run directly off the hook into me, I'm taking the shot - and that's not tunneling.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2556854#Comment_2556854
Fair enough, but I could understand why the hope was to have a non competitive game with DBD, to just have fun, if that was actually their intention.
And to be fair, I do sometimes think it's a bit extreme how competitive people are at some games, or how people can turn any game into a competition. Obviously if they want to turn something into a competition that's fine, but the demand to have a game become competitive is a bit ridiculous.
I think I just don't get how some people can take games so overly serious. Gaming skill isn't really and important skill to have in life. And giving out 10 thousand of dollars to someone who can complete an SNES game slightly faster than others is kind of hilarious actually. Although I'm sure some insane skill is required to pull that off, so as a reward that's understandable maybe.
It's human nature. People get weirdly competitive about all sorts of things (evolutionary, I think). Where problems arise is the desire to win turning into a desire for easy wins, leading to smurfing - which creates a feedback loop of suck, as both the people you are sandbagging to lower your MMR and the people you trounce are having a bad time through no fault of their own.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2586377#Comment_2586377
I mean that's just plain base-game exploit abuse. Bug/player report.
If I recall, this is one of those 'creative use of game mechanics' (like flying the Hillbilly off surfaces) that BHVR said they won't take action on.
Very frustrating.
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@DelsKibara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2586348#Comment_2586348
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2586352#Comment_2586352
Basically what @RockoRango said.
If people trusted BHVR, that the game is secure and safe to play, I agree that this would be "mass hysteria"
But we know that they aren't. We know that their Anti-Cheat is outdated (they admitted as such in their QnA), we know how horribly optimized this game is on console (@Pulsar basically has a whole thread dedicated to it), and we know previous gen consoles has had these kinds of attacks on them in the past.
If people trusted BHVR to say that there is nothing to worry about or that these are caused from other issues, like heating or hardware failure, then it'd be fine. But BHVR doesn't really address these issues. They never addressed the cheater epidemic that was asked relentlessly in the QnA, they didn't even acknowledge it.
It's a tough one. Much like the whole 'DRM kills SSDs' hoax, this is the internet and a story can be spread at light speed.
That said, there is a lot of hacking in this game, and this sort of story lies just within the realms of believability that it's easy to get taken in.
That's why fake news and gossip are so powerful online. It turns into 'well, you can't prove that it didn't happen' extremely quickly.
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@tennmio said:
If 1 person dc's right at the beginning and 2 people brought bloodpointofferings for everyone, maybe consider not tunneling, camping and slugging people. With 0 gens done, ruin up, on a map (midvich) that you decided to go to. With you having good perks and add ons, when those survivors don't even bring 1 meta perk.
For those about to complain: No I don't expect someone to farm, I don't want to farm. BUT one can play differently in a 3 vs 1. Be respectful, don't tunnel/camp. Give survivors at least a chance to get some points. Just behave like a feeling, empathic human being, it's all I ask (if that isn't true for you, just play as if you posessed those qualities, like an actor).
Tbh I wish the devs would punish tunneling and camping in 3 vs 1's when bp offerings were brought. Like there is NO acceptable reason to play that disgustingly selfish if you are already having an advantage.
If there is a DC, I'll almost always 2 hook everyone and let you escape, provided you don't start flicking or teabagging me. Especially if you brought a cake.
However...
It's always odd to me how killers are expected to obey some sort of hidden 'gentleman's rules' while survivors never are.
If you win on a strong killer, it's 'lol baby killer', 'crutch killer', 'tunnel much', 'camp much'. If you win on a weak killer, or running odd perks it's 'play normally'. And don't you even dare bring any addons, no matter how many toolboxes and medkits you see...
Hell, I get accused of hacking at least once a day, because I run info-heavy perks.
It's not much better when you lose either. You'll be teabagged and flashed from the gate until you chase them out, and then it's 'lol EZ get out scrub game's full' in the postgame.
If you want me to cut you a break when you get a DC or a potato, remember to treat a new or less skilled killer more generously too. Speeding through gens in your SWF group not only gets you less BP, but probably just made a killer log off for the day. Especially when you teabagged him from the exit.
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@Poorfu said:
First off, the plague has the extremely overpowered ability to down a survivor at INSANE distances. It requires little to no aim unlike the huntress since it can be sprayed everywhere. A good fix would be to downgrade the damage it does. So it doesn't take a couple hits from it when your down. I think that's a fair trade considering you really don't need skill to aim the projectile, again unlike the huntress which actually involves timing and perceiving where your target is going to go next.
Now the doctor is the EZ mode choice. Basically, you know where every survivor is at all times with the shock blast. Which also screws with skill checks and if you're hit enough times with it, you'll continuously scream revealing your location almost always. A good fair downgrade would be to reduce the shock blast radius. He can also completely ruin the survivor's game by using the shock ability to prevent them from ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME PROPERLY. Such as dropping pallets and vaulting windows. The survivor needs a fair chance to get away and with the doctor, that is completely ruined.
I understand that the killers are supposed to be OP in a sense and you're supposed to be in the feel of danger. That's the fun of it. HOWEVER, when you create killers that completely ruin the game survivor side, it becomes an annoyance and needs immediate attention. And if it doesn't get the attention it so desperately needs, the game will lose a majority of it's player base and it will be just another dead MMO. I don't want to see that.
Not even my opinions. These were major complaints I've picked up along with some of the community and I completely agree. You can't change my mind
Yup.
That's bait.
Plague is now 'B' rather than 'C' tier, and Doctor (while certainly better than people give him credit for) is 'B' tier at best. The simple fact that his shock stops pallet drops and vaults correctly maybe 50% of the time will never not be frustrating.
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@AnObserver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2584327#Comment_2584327
Is abusing hard-coded timers without any input from the opposition really an outplay? Or just technical knowledge?
At least if you leave them slugged for 60s you still have to proxy their body and the Survivor can crawl away, rather than relying on the team not having a flashlight (or having downed the Survivor under a Pallet) in order to spam pickup/drop.
Not to mention that it still seems possible on a specific tileset (not saying which...) to crawl into spots between doodads that you cannot be picked up from.
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@graveyard_7777 said:
I've had multiple killers message me saying the reason they're going afk is to lower their mmr and because gens get done so fast
Granted, I play killer significantly more than survivor, but I've seen maybe 4 AFK killers in the 13ish months I've been playing, 3 of which were on Haddonfield and one after we had Ruin spawn literally next to the first gen we went to.
On the other hand, every second game I play as killer (at a very mediocre MMR I'm guessing) has either:
- At least one survivor AFK from the start.
- At least one survivor run up to me as soon as they see me, then suicide on hook.
- At least one survivor with full meta perks and a fancy toolbox/medkit, and is millions of times better than me. Sometimes it's a full group of .TTV people with legacy skins.
I'm not saying killers don't smurf their MMR, but I see it way more in survivors, and now dodge any lobby with a .TTV in it, whether I'm playing survivor or killer - as this will inevitably be someone who sandbags the match to lower their MMR, or someone looking to stomp lowbies to make them look better on stream.
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@Raccoon said:
Histrionics and dev bashing seem to be the most popular types of topics, these days.
Game Forums 101.
Any complaints I agree with are genius, and the devs need to implement them immediately or they don't care about the playerbase.
Any complaints I disagree with are whining, spam or histrionics and should probably result in an immediate forum ban.
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@SackoXA said:
Now with the changes to the hatch only appearing when there is one player left instead of when there are more gens done than players alive, what is stopping me from wanting to just get everyone else killed and escaping out the hatch? Discuss.
Before the change - my games were either people who smurfed down their ratings and run rings around me, in full SWFs with meta perks, or people AFKing, suiciding or sandbagging to smurf their SBMM.
I don't foresee much difference.
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@herpderp00 said:
At first I thought this was just a coincidence but its been a couple times that I have been tunneled off hook. I was in no way toxic or anything. In one of my games on Lerys a Pig was tunneling me and another Mikaela player. So it seems like they dont like me playing as her? Very confused rn. Last time A nurse tunneled me and it was on the Coal mine map, she didnt even go for others, was just tunneling me off hook.
Because she is, right now, the most likely to be running boons - and it is in my best interest to remove her from the game as soon as possible.
It's like running a toolbox or a pre-nerf key. You've made yourself a target of necessity.
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@Pulsar said:
Are we allowed to talk about this?
I can only assume that I'm playing at high MMR as Killer. I get the same teams over and over, and they are pretty good.
As Survivor, I queue with people who are a lot better than me. I see a lot of Deathslinger's, Blight's and Spirit's. I am not a good Survivor, but I benefit from people who are.
It's important to note that I do mostly play Killer, despite trying to retire. I do play Survivor more than I used to, but i know my bias is towards Killer. If someone who mains Survivor wants to add on some knowledge, go for it. That brings me to my question, why is the game so unfun for both roles when the players are good?
Note: I am not talking about balance. I'm talking about fun. Sometimes they go hand-in-hand, other times they do not.
As Survivor, most matches involve some form of camping or tunneling. These are both super unfun because they often deny the Survivor the ability to play the game and earn points. Additionally, most games feature at least two gen regression perks, games that don't are over so fast they weren't worth the queue time. It never feels good to have to hunt down two totems just to be able to do gens. The dread I feel when I tap a gen and see Ruin is immense. It also really really sucks when the Killer is an ######### and decides to BM. Like, jeez, stop pouring salt in the wound.
As Killer, it sucks knowing you are probably going to a ######### map. Like, the amount of Survivor-tilted maps is insane. It also never feels good knowing that by the time you get your first down (barring a miracle) at least two gens will pop. It's super unfun to feel forced to bring gen perks to have a chance at a slightly longer game. It sucks to see two of your perks completely removed from the match within 2 minutes of the game starting. It also sucks to know that you basically have to tunnel or proxy camp to win. It sucks when Survivors can use DH effectively to make up for a mistake they made, or when you outplay them. It's also massively unfun to see a Survivor chain structures and loops together and know that you have to break three pallets before you can hit them. It's infuriating when Survivors BM you. It's worse when people defend the BM by saying it's harmless. It's clearly intended to annoy and upset the Killer.
Small rant over. What can be done to rectify this situation where both sides are having a miserable time at higher MMR?
There isn't really a solution to this.
You can smurf your MMR down, but that is a really crappy thing to do, as you are essentially spoiling games.
What you are describing is just the nature of being higher-than-average or lower-than-average in rank, in a videogame. There are less players at your level, but it wouldn't be fair to widen matchmaking parameters too far (shudders as he remembers what it was like when killers had zero matchmaking).
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@Rhoska said:
Isnt it interesting, that of all the perks/abilities on Killers, there is only Knock Out that directly relates to this crucial option?
As to how crucial it is (and understated/underepresented), you can win a Trial by chaining slugs over and over, without ever even once using the traditional Hook mechanic, nor Moris.
Additional to that (but to which their is no perk/ability on Killers to capitalize on), slugged Survivors bleed out and die eventually.
And ofc, that slugging has essentially the same function as hooking, in that it prevents that slugged Survivor from doing anything else, and obligating another Survivor to find and pick them up, away from them also doing gens.
What are your views/experiences with slugging, and why is it, that such a core and crucial Killer capacity has no abilities/perks related to it, except Knock Out?
In practice, slugging isn't a realistic way to win games, as unless you have a fully stacked DH or NOED, you can easily teamwork around it (where you don't have counter-perks). It's mostly used in situations where you can potentially down multiple targets, to avoid certain second chance perks, as a counter to sabo/bad hook spawns or to BM.
@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2555666#Comment_2555666
Slug doesn't mean that? Slug means basically leaving survs on purpose on floor going after others there's difference between slugged and downed....hooking ppl is main mechanic of game not that u just lose points but also zero hooks and it's gonna take a while until u get everyone down or they bleed out game would go for an hour for no reason slugging has no point unless it's endgame ofc it just promotes toxicity and nobody wants to lay on floor for most of the match u said u would down them and than they get picked up and u slugg them back to ground you don't see anything wrong with that? U actually think that's valid and fair?
What?
No it doesn't.
'Slugging' in common usage just refers to leaving a survivor 'downed' for a certain period of time, as there is a possibility of another down/saving a gen or to avoid certain perks.
What you are referring to is mostly just being BM, or being silly.
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@Kira4Evr said:
From what I've heard. The new MMR system is all about deaths or escapes for survivors. Basically, you increase your MMR by escaping, and you lose MMR by dying. Nothing else matters. Am I correct?
And if that's the case. If you have a free escape but decide to die just to get less experienced killers, would that be considered as an exploit or something? Just curious :)
Sadly, no. BHVR just confirmed this in another post.
MMR abuse is rife now, at least 1 in 3 games has a suicidal survivor (or an entire team running to me), or is a TTV SWF group will legacy skins and full perks obviously smurfed down to my crappy MMR to get easy games for streams.
@R2k said:
No. It works exactly as in every other game. U want to chill, don't win your games and u will never face worthy opponents.
Actually, a lot of games have taken steps to combat this. LoL has an 'anti-smurf' AI that works really well and SC2 will straight up ban you for it.
It's really worth fixing, because it not only ruins the game you were in when you sandbagged it, it's incredibly likely to drive away newer players.
@Squirrel_Thicc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557733#Comment_2557733
I mean you're just increasing the killer's mmr by doing that. RIP them I guess but my point still stands lol
If it gets that bad, killers will just AFK games too. And then it's going to suck for everyone.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
Now that silent hill and saw are in dbd, Alien is the only horror license I personally would like to see in dbd. I just want to know the community's opinion on an Alien chapter, so please share your opinions :D
Also for sake of this thread we'll assume the killer would obviously be the alien while the survivor would be Ellen Ripley.
Awesome in theory, unlikely in reality.
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@latinfla4 said:
Is it still spirit?
Spirit will still be a killing machine, she just won't have the mindgame potential she had before.
I'd honestly say 'Hag'...but nobody really plays Hag as is.
Bubba is also an incredibly strong killer, massively underrated. His only weakness is some specific maps (but that's true of Nurse and Blight too).
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557615#Comment_2557615
Almost every single time I played against old undying whichever hex the killer paired it with (usually ruin) would stay up for the whole game and only die on the last totem. Basically being given 5 of your hex perk is stupid.
Yup. The ideal solution would have been something ad-hoc and surgical, like 'Undying no longer works with Ruin'.
The problem is that the Undying nerf was a blanket nerf to almost all hexes, and most of them were mediocre-to-terrible before that.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557636#Comment_2557636
Survivors have far more options between universally 'good' perks than killers do (killers actually have several perks that are flat-out worse than an empty slot, or are so niche that neither you nor the survivors are likely to even be aware that it's active. See: Distressing, Predator, about 2/3 of hexes). Plus, most of the genuinely 'bad' survivor perks are getting buffed shortly, while almost none of the bad killer perks are.
I doubt that. Killers have far more build variety, and I think the average killer perk is a safer pick than the average survivor perk. There's a ton of far more niche survivor perks and some that have completely negligible benefits. And in terms of 'empty slots are better', survivors have the absolute king of kill-me-now perks: No Mither. And Autodidact doesn't exactly help the survivors, either.
And there's an equal number of killer perk buffs as survivor perk buffs, IIRC.
Killers see pretty constant nerfs to addons as things stand, some of them honestly baffling (Ghostface is the most recent example).
Killers see a ton of balance changes in general, including buffs. They've just got way more variables to tinker with than survivors do. Keep in mind that these add-ons are generally more impactful than survivor item add-ons, even at the highest tier.
There is no killer perk that can stop a 2-3 gen pop within the first 2 minutes of a game, if the enemy are all running good toolboxes and you aren't extremely lucky early. On the other hand, there is a survivor perk to counter nearly every killer perk - and you have 12 perks to play with in a team, while killers are stuck at 4.
Corrupt Intervention is a meta perk precisely because it can stop a 2-3 gen pop in the first 2 minutes of the game. And yeah, fully kitted out survivors are stronger than survivors without kits. Same with killers that slap on high end add-ons. Fanged Pinhead is leagues above normal Pinhead for example.
Yes, the survivors have more perks, but those perks only affect themselves in most cases, while the killer's impact all survivors. It's not a blunt numerical comparison of '16 vs 4'.
About half of these perks are to counter a specific killer playstyle (ie. facecamping/tunnelling/slugging) and BHVR have already said that they will be taking specific steps to prevent facecamping in the near future.
Yes. And then DS still has to stay to counter tunnelling and UB has to stay for slugging. And we don't even know if they'll figure something out, so until facecamping is solved, BT is staying as well. And until NOED gets a rework, DetHunch/Small Game is practically mandatory too. The Spirit changes might ease off the requirement of Iron Will, but there's no guarantee.
Point is that if a survivor wants to be able to play when the killer decided otherwise, they need that bunch of perks with no exception. The closest you can argue for the killer side is that gen slowdown perks are mandatory, but even then there's a large assortment of options available for the killer to choose from. Far more so than the four survivor perks. Pop, Ruin, Corrupt Intervention, Thrilling Tremors, Eruption, Surge, they're all decent picks for slowdown and you can mix-and-match as much as you like. And generally, people will take one or two slow-down perks leaving the other two slots open for anything the killer wants.
There's more complaints about a stale survivor meta than killer meta for a reason.
Not sure how to break up quotes like that, but going point by point:
- Otz recently did a 'ranking all perks' video. It was quite an eye opener, especially factoring in the upcoming changes/buffs to survivor perks. And no, no there isn't.
- I'd say No Mither is far better than Distressing. At least it has some sort of gameplay benefits. All Distressing does is nerf you for a paltry BP gain.
- Very seldom do killers get meaningful buffs (the last one I can think of was Wraith, and he's being nerfed now, despite being mid-tier at best). Again, look at Clown and Trapper.
- Yes, CI is frustratingly compulsory on certain killers, far more so than any perk is required on survivors. That's...sort of my point. And even then, you can get RNGed on some maps (saw a game recently where a top ranked killer...some British guy? lost 2 gens in under a minute, despite CI. Hawkins, if I recall.
- No, it's not a blunt 16v4 comparison, and that's not what I'm saying. I will say though that, when you factor in SWFs, it can very much play out like that. Which is why OoO was such a problem for so long. At the very least, it gives you way more wiggle room to bring different perks, or cover multiple bases (you only really need 1 small game, and one spine chill if you are sharing info).
- Shrug. They said they had something that they would be introducing to stop facecamping, so it's not really a concern. Slugging is, in and of itself, required to counter other perks/strategies and can easily backfire due to 'pick up deadzones' (between certain doodads on the farm maps for example, or under certain hooks). There's nothing wrong with slugging, and the best counter to it will always be teamwork.
- There is no 'large assortment' of gen regression perks. There's Ruin, Pop, Surge (on some killers) and then mostly pointless options like Overcharge. TT isn't a regression perk and Eruption is awful.
- Most of the complaints about the stale survivor meta are coming from killers, as it forces a very tedious meta from killers too.
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@RenRen said:
Killer: Ruin. I just want to see how much of a difference ruin makes. If it makes a huge difference then that's a problem. Ruin shouldn't be that big of a game changer.
Survivor: Dead Hard. The amount of people that rely on dead hard is insane. I used to and then I realized how much value it gives so I stopped using it. I personally don't like the idea of winning not because I was good, but because of a perk.
Without Ruin, it would just be Pop or Surge. Honestly, an argument could be made that Ruin isn't even the strongest of the three (it can be incredibly unreliable).
Without *any* regression perks, all the M1 killers and about half the others would be unable to really do much.
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@SoylentPixie said:
This is a hard one for me, because I typically don't consider most, if any perks, as unfair, I'm a pretty chill player that rolls with the punches. So I'll step into some other shoes and pick two that make me roll my eyes or make sad violin noises when I see them.
Make your choice - Ok so straight up I don't consider this perk op, though it can be devastating in the right hands when it comes to snowballing. However, I run an ambulance build, which means I'm usually on point to save with kindred and we'll make it, plus I don't unhook in people's faces. Nine times out of ten, this works beautifully, until I get slapped with an exposed status and a very happy killer is coming for my ass if I don't learn to hide real quick!
Self care - Again, not OP IMO, but dear god I have lost count of the matches where I go from my first hook state to my second in one sitting because 2 out of three potential rescues are in opposite corners slowly healing against a slow heal debuff, while the third guy is being chased nowhere near me.
As a killer main, it absolutely frustrates me when survivors let hooks creep down (and far too often get there just too late). I either need to just give them a wide berth and hope they make it, or lose out on a ton of BP.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557677#Comment_2557677
Because it essentially gives you free info and has no cooldown whatsoever so it can lead to situations where the killer will just keep coming back to the same gen over and over until you eventually finish it
They are going to do that anyway though (I know I will always patrol back past mostly-done gens until they heavily regress when possible), unless you lead them off or they go elsewhere. But each to their own, I guess.
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@Introvertedvet said:
I see a lot of this especially when I play Legion and the survivors all swarm around 1 gen and I am able to bleed them all in the first moments of a game. It is frustrating when an entire com team DC's leaving only 1 or 2 survivors to pick up an entire game.
When it happens I will leave the gens alone and just chase, working on my anti loop and goof off with them, though I have a couple of instances where the entire team discos.
Voluntary discos should have a minimum time block of 10 minutes since most of the time the player has to quit the match while in-game. Harder to deduce if they disconnect their wifi or internet connection.
League of Legends basically eradicated this problem with LeaverBuster. Essentially, one DC (or a handful over a short time, as in the game is glitchy) won't punish you all that much. However, if you have a pattern of frequent DCs on your account, you'll get rapidly escalating bans.
Right now it's so frustrating to see how many games I have at least 1 DC, or a survivor AFK/suicide in, specifically to smurf their MMR down.
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@Phasmamain said:
Tinkerer and Spine chill. Only 2 crutch perks imo
Tinkerer...interesting. Why?
Honestly, I find Discordance or CI way, way more useful - Tink has a nasty habit of sending you useless information (hey, a gen is going to pop long before you can get there). At least Discordance allows me to find multiple survivors.
Spine Chill - yeah. It's frustrating to have to approach every gen obliquely, just in case survivors have it. It's just too effective, while being entirely passive.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557654#Comment_2557654
So u confirm killers are balanced around Ruin and are useless without it? It needs to go away and killers need some tuning. I'm not trying to tell u it's OP. It's a perk that makes killer players online.
It's a nice dream, but with the standard glacial pace at which BHVR buffs killers (look how long it took Trapper and Clown to even get a glance), all I foresee happening is 'we've nerfed regression perks, and will be giving the situation another look in 2023. Maybe. If we remember and if you ask nicely.'.
Honestly, survivor objectives are what need a total rework, but that's even less likely.
Right now, it's 'keep the good perks killers have' or 'a massive sweeping nerf to all killers now, with potential tuning in the distant future'.
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Reminds me of the glorious era where half the dictionary was censored on the WoW forums, including characters from lore, skills from the game and place names.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557643#Comment_2557643
I chose Ruin cause almost every single killer runs it. If we talk about bad habits, it's Ruin that allows killer players to ignore gens and after MMR majority runs it.
DH is same but from survivor side. Perk that gives you free health state on demand is too strong and enforces bad habits.
It's not that it allows killers to ignore gens - it's that, at a certain point, unless you have a basekit with a lot of map presence, it's the only reliable option to not get absolutely dookied on by SWFs of a certain skill level, unless you really like camping and slugging.
It's not that regression perks are OP - it's that they are the only way for a lot of killers to really stand a chance.
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@Clowning said:
Barbecue & Chilli and We're Gonna Live Forever.
Because they should be adjusted and made baseline.
I agree on this totally...so long as the non BP effects aren't included. WGLF in particular can be crazy strong in the right situations, while BBQ is fairly easy to negate.
The BP stuff though, absolutely. BBQ is basically 'do you want to have a permanently locked slot, or do you want to get half BP?'
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@Kevinnnny said:
Talk about racing between Olympics and Paralympics.
On one hand, sure.
On the other hand, broken, buggy, imbalanced games tend to have a very limited audience.
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@R2k said:
Noed is fine. U either win with 3 perks or try comeback with it. Those who claims Noed is for bad killers etc are probably tru3 fanboys. Never heard any other killer complained about it.
From killer side it's Ruin. Perk that holds killers online.
From survivor side it's DH. It's so strong and popular killers think it's base kit.
Who?
Eh, NOED does one of three things. Either you hook/slug someone and everyone abandons them, you hook someone and then camp a few more kills out of an overly altruistic team, or it activates, but you got crappy gate spawns and pick the wrong one. Against smart teams, all it does is sometimes turn an x-out into an (x-1)out. Or you bring a 'gate' perk, which turns the game into hide-and-seek for a few minutes.
Ruin...I'm not even sure if it can be called meta anymore, after the Undying nerf. I really don't get the complaints. I almost always run either Pop or Surge now, as it gets cleansed super early on at least half of my matches, and I play at a very intermediate MMR. At best it buys you a minute or two early on, assuming it doesn't spawn right on top of a gen or a chest.
DH is honestly fine, it just shouldn't work against certain killer powers, like clown gas or traps.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557623#Comment_2557623
I will never argue against locking survivor loadouts earlier so the killer can set theirs accordingly, but 'just bring [perk]' is more of a survivor problem than a killer one, between DS, BT, UB, IW and DetHunch/SG.
Eh. Except that 'just bring x perk' isn't really a survivor issue, because:
- Survivors have far more options between universally 'good' perks than killers do (killers actually have several perks that are flat-out worse than an empty slot, or are so niche that neither you nor the survivors are likely to even be aware that it's active. See: Distressing, Predator, about 2/3 of hexes). Plus, most of the genuinely 'bad' survivor perks are getting buffed shortly, while almost none of the bad killer perks are.
- Killers see pretty constant nerfs to addons as things stand, some of them honestly baffling (Ghostface is the most recent example).
- There is no killer perk that can stop a 2-3 gen pop within the first 2 minutes of a game, if the enemy are all running good toolboxes and you aren't extremely lucky early. On the other hand, there is a survivor perk to counter nearly every killer perk - and you have 12 perks to play with in a team, while killers are stuck at 4.
- About half of these perks are to counter a specific killer playstyle (ie. facecamping/tunnelling/slugging) and BHVR have already said that they will be taking specific steps to prevent facecamping in the near future.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I use Leatherface as a crutch, not going to lie. He just makes a lot of situations that would be difficult to deal with as any other killer a lot easier.
Post rework, he is really strong as a dedicated camper. Otherwise, he's really, really map dependent.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557240#Comment_2557240
Medkits aren't base survivor items, they need to be bought or found and are destroyed upon death.
Survivors don't spawn in with a medkit by default.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2557218#Comment_2557218
And this is really unfair. Asking 'how do I counter X when I intentionally do the opposite of the counter?' is like asking 'how do I counter DS while hard-line tunnelling' or 'how do I counter BBQ & Chili when I'm doing a never-enter-a-locker challenge?'.
No, I see what he is saying. 'Use x killer' to counter specific addons doesn't work, because we can't change killers at the match selection screen. 'Use x perk' doesn't work, because smart survivors time their switch to addons so that you can't change perks in time.
At the very least, survivors shouldn't be able to change addons at the last second. If you change addons, it should automatically 'unready' the killer and allow them to alter their perks.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
No it'd be ridiculous, just like how old undying was ridiculous.
Old Undying was fine.
The problem was it's interaction with Ruin (and to a lesser extent NOED).
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@tippy2k2 said:
Personally I have not noticed a huge wave of hackers but I'm not going to sit here and deny that there have been a LOT of rumblings on The Forums about it and this seems like it should be a (relatively) easy fix. But instead of having a proper recording system in game that would be able to automatically catch things that shouldn't be happening (I can't imagine the survivor being able to run through the map like The Flash is normal), they still rely on one of the most archaic systems known to man.
Not only the most archaic system known to man but an archaic system that I'm guessing 90% of the God damn player base doesn't realize they have to do (submit video evidence with their report). The only reason anyone would possibly know that is if they come to the forums to see because it is either not in the game period or if it is in the game, it's so buried or out of the way that no one seems to realize it exists.
I'm definitely seeing more, even at my crap MMR. All sorts of weirdness, and that's the overt ones - I wonder how many much sneakier hackers I come up against (I get legitimately paranoid sometimes when a survivor mysteriously knows I'm coming despite me being undetectable and deliberately looking away from gen, or 0-100's a gen ridiculously fast).
The problem is EAC. EAC is ridiculously easy to get around - hell, modding in other titles requires it and instructions/files are included with said mods.
It really can't be that hard to work some algorithms in to detect survivors breaking the matrix.