Less-punishing facecamping question in the Q&A: a solution
Do we have plans to make face camping less punishing?
"Yes we do! It's been a thorn in the design side for a long time. In theory, face camping can be countered by just leaving the person on the hook and go work on the generators. In practice, it takes along time for players to realize that face camping is happening and then find a generator to work on. While we look for a solution, we don't want to remove proxy camping. This is a legitimate strategy with risks and counters. We have a new idea that we've working through recently."
To me, the obvious solution is just... make Kindred a base part of the survivor kit. Maybe don't make it affected by Open Handed, but let every survivor see the killer's aura when they are within 16 meters of a hooked teammate. Then redesign the existing Kindred perk so that it's just the "show all teammate auras when someone is hooked" part. (EDIT: As @C3Tooth suggests below, change the hooked survivor's aura to a different color, so that you know the killer is around but you don't know exactly where they are, or where they are going.)
The corollary for killers would be to make either Whispers or Spies from the Shadows a part of the base killer kit. Probably Spies, because built-in Whispers would be a little too powerful for patrolling doors and finding people in lockers.
Comments
If Kindred becomes baskit it should only show survivor auras. Being able to see exactly where the killer is, is beyond information even a SWF team can provide.
The intention would be that the only circumstance the killer is visible in, is when they're actively camping the hook. Maybe give it some sort of cumulative time-based trigger for when it turns on (so if a killer immediately leaves the hook, no one sees where they've gone).
The idea isn't to give survivors way way way too much information at all times, it's to establish a consistent consequence for facecamping.
I would have Survivor's aura turn to a difference color if Killer is 16m close. So you know Killer is near hook but not exactly where.
Oh, I like that idea! It tells you that the killer is maybe camping, but doesn't give away their whole game plan.
Short answer: no.
Long answer:
Kindred is way, way too strong to be baseline, unless you substantially nerf it (16m is enormous, and shows which direction the killer is headed in after a hook, which is insanely useful information). You'd have to make something like MAA, BBQ or Discordance baseline for killers to compensate. Your solution would be a whopping baseline buff to survivors even in games where a killer isn't facecamping. Spies is pretty weak in comparison - hell, even Whispers is.
I'd much rather see something like 'if a killer remains within 10m of a hooked survivor for more than 10 seconds, they receive a noise prompt and their aura becomes visible to survivors within 16m until they leave this radius. After another 10 seconds, the killer receives a stacking 10% movement speed penalty every 5 seconds until they leave the radius'.
A little convoluted, but this would make it easier to deal with a facecamper, and wouldn't stop proxy camping.
I rescind my Kindred suggestion, @C3Tooth had a way better idea.
This isn't terrible, but 16m is still way too large. This would completely nullify proxy-camping, which the devs specifically stated they didn't want to happen. 10m sounds much fairer.
I like it somewhat, but the numbers would have to be almost halved for this not to exceed it's purpose.
The problem though isn't just knowing the killer is there. SWF groups are already calling this out anyway.
The problem is that you won't be able to unhook without getting grabbed, or at best taking a hit and probably having the unhooked person downed again. Which is why I suggested the movement speed penalty which would eventually make an actual facecamper nearly immobile until you are both away.
I have a feeling they will opt to nerf killers instead of just making the game more solo friendly with base kit Kindred. That solution is just too simple and effective to be considered. We need more convulsion and ignoring the problem...
Eh, I'm not that concerned with hypercompetent SWF groups calling everything out. This would be a solution for making everyone, whether solo or not, aware that facecamping is occurring, so that they can respond appropriately and work gens ASAP instead of wasting time going for a risky unhook trade.
Base kit Kindred would be a huge defacto nerf to killers, far beyond discouraging facecamping. It would be like making BBQ baseline on killers, if not better.
Even mediocre SWF teams can easily communicate 'hey, I'm being camped, be careful'.
Your solution, or C3Tooth's solution would be incredible baseline buffs to survivors, SWF and otherwise. 16m is far, far too big - not only would this stop proxy camping, but it would provide far too much information.
I don't mind some kind of way to encourage killers to leave hooks. Even if it's some kind of fresh new anti-killer baked-in system. PROVIDED that there is some kind of answer to the "survivors standing out in the open, just outside of catch-able distance, staring at the killer like he's a very interesting bird" problem that promotes camping.
Seriously, it's not camping if your team are all lined up right near the hook, just staring at you and hoping the killer will walk away. The game has STEALTH for a reason. If survivors can't be bothered to sneak or even to ACT like the killer is supposed to be the power role, I'm not going to just give them a completely free unhooking.
Yeah. This is also true. It's really hard to work in a system that doesn't turn into a substantial nerf to all killers in general.
The problem is that 'camping' is, in and of itself, not something that is easy to define. I get accused of camping constantly, despite actively trying to avoid it.
I agree that the distance would probably need to be closer to 8-10 meters.
Eh, if survivors are all swarming the hook I also would not consider that camping, because they are giving you a reason to stick around.
Don't need to show the killer, just a survivor aura change when within x (facecamping) meters
It would have to be very small, and only activate after a set time. Otherwise, on some maps, I wouldn't be able to path past a hook on my way elsewhere without telling survivors exactly where I am.
Sure.
But my point is that other players would. 'Camping' is so, so often just an excuse for 'I did something really silly, got downed, and want to make it someone else's fault'.
I agree, just enough to dissuade a hard camp but don't want to ruin hook baiting strategies