Exxodus21
Exxodus21
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Just let go of the gen before the hook or before GE activates and you won't have to deal with DMS. Plus Pain Res and GE can only be triggered 4 times by hooking 4 different survivors. It's really not that hard to deal with.
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It already requires a hook on a unique survivor as well as only being available four time on 4 randomly spawned hooks that may be in terrible areas.
It encourages killers to spread out hooks in order to get their regression which is healthy for the game. As far as it's combos with DMS and GE, they have the same counter: let go of the gen before the hook happens and don't get back on until GE ends, that way DMS won't trigger.
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There's a point where too much information makes the game boring and easy. Survivor is already close to that point, even having more information about killer powers than the killers do (example Plague can't see how infected a survivor is). They also get information on when certain perks like Dissolution are active so they can avoid them.
Basekit Zanshin on killer wouldn't help much imo, whereas basekit Windows on survivor would be an unbelievably strong buff and overall unhealthy for the game.
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@Zraith said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671155#Comment_3671155
I wonder how forcing people to stay in a match they clearly don't want to will make them respond in-game. Surely they will see the error of their ways, get it together and start playing per this threads expectations.
If they don't like being in a multi-player game then they shouldn't play the game.
It would be different if it was a rare occurrence, but it's not. People leave matches simply because they got downed which is part of normal gameplay.
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At this point the should remove the ability to self un-hook unless you're running a perk that allows it and remove the struggle option from second phase. They're both outdated mechanics anyways and more often than not serve as a way to avoid the DC penalty while still ruining the game for everyone else.
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I played against her a few nights ago on RPD. She mori'd 2 people in under 10 minutes because they sat on gens in stead of picking up tapes and wound up getting a bunch of stacks locked in.
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@Nebula said:
I'm not sure where I exactly stand on this. My friend brought this up yesterday and I thought he had a good point, so thought I'd share here.
Why is the highest mobility killer in the game still a fully functioning M1 killer outside of his power? Especially when his power recharge is so short and forgiving compared to many killers who have even worse powers.
Would this even be a meaningful change? Is it unnecessary? Would it lower skill expression or raise it?
No. Personally I think all killers should be 115% except for Nurse. I think k it would be best for muscle memory and helping new/casual players with a more streamlined experience.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669424#Comment_3669424
Cross progression is out of BHVR's hands at this point. It's the console companies themselves who prevent it from happening.
Not on Xbox Game Pass. Xbox wants all games to be what they call "play anywhere" games. It's up to the developers to to allow cross-progression on all Microsoft platforms.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669424#Comment_3669424
I believe it's been said because of Playstation that cross progression isn't a thing and that xbox already said it's fine.
I see a lot of Sony hate going around dbd communities because of this. Idk if it's 100% true, just what I've seen said a lot.
Sony has no say whatsoever on Game Pass games. It all works through you Xbox Live account and Game Pass subscription. The reason we don't have it is solely a BHVR issue imo.
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They won't even allow cross-progression for Xbox Game Pass for console and Xbox Game Pass for PC even though smaller, less popular games do.
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If the killer isn't in chase or has been tunneling, leaving the hook is a good idea.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669052#Comment_3669052
We already have fast enough regression. This change should've already happened, well before the meta shake up.
We have more regression now. Gen tapping is gone. The fair thing would be for this to be removed.
Since they take this regression into consideration when balancing all other gen regression they would have to add more regression to what we already have.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think it is fair that Killers adjust their build to what Items are brought. Where it was not really good was when they could still switch in the Lobby, so seeing Medkits and switching to Plague was kinda...eh.
However, the Lobby is simply outdated at this point. Killers dont use this information to prepare, they use this information to dodge the Lobby, they are cherrypicking. Which also screws with Matchmaking and results in weaker/stronger Killer players ending up in Lobbies they simple dont belong in.
IMO it would be fine to remove the Lobby completely. It really does not fit the purpose it was intended to fit, let alone that it is a relic from the time the Killer was the host. Or they keep it (removing names and profiles of course, those are not gameplay-relevant anyway) and give the Killer access to which Items Survivors bring to prepare, but put a penalty on Dodging.
I always use the lobby to prepare, and I see streamers doing the same as well.
As for dodging lobbies they could just remove prestige levels until the post-match results. Prestige doesn't mean anything anyway except that you've spent a lot of bloodpoints on that particular survivor.
They should however lock-in all survivors at the 15 second mark to get rid of last second switching.
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If they change this mechanic they have to add regression to all regression perks and kicks or take other measures because they've balanced around this happening. And now with regression events being capped changing this could have a noticeable impact on gen speeds.
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Mostly balanced map but something about the size or shape of it feels off. It seems too big but I think that's due to having half of the gens on one side and the other half on the other side with nothing in the middle.
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Mostly balanced, just a tad too big.
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Overall the map is a little too big and the main building is too strong for survivors.
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It's not bad at all. At first I didn't like it pairing with DMS, but as long as you let go of the gen before the killer hooks, like you do for the Pain Res/DMS combo, and let GE run it's course you won't have to deal.with DMS at all.
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No. You can do glyph challenges as part of normal gameplay. If you're having to throw to complete them you're doing something very wrong.
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@WolfyWood said:
As long as survivor continues to be weak in the 1v1 the game will stay like this. Nobody wants to interact with the killer anymore because they keep buffing killers to be oppressive in chase and nerfing maps and perks.
If they want people to get off gens then people need to feel like it'd worth healing up to take chase because they won't get right clicked at every loop.
But the whole game needs to shift focus for thay to not feel awful for killer which is something BHVR isn't willing to do.
So we're stuck with a crappy limbo that's killer favored because it's better to cater to the less popular role as a way to keep the game stable.
Yet when survivors are strong in a 1v1 the other 3 still push gens and avoid healing because there's no danger. Being weaker in a 1v1 is more incentive to stay healed and work together
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I think ranged killers should have a cross hair because it's easy for PC players to install one or use a built-in cross hair on their gaming monitor, whereas consoles are usually connected to a TV which doesn't have that option.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655589#Comment_3655589
There are games where the killer is farming, giving hatch, staying afk, giving up, giving exit gate ect.
On top of that, the last survivor has a close to 50% chance to get the hatch escape, which is just a petty escape and does not even count. So technically it is a 4K, but because of luck, its only a 3K. In the perspective of gameplay, the killer was 4king but only got 3k.
The instances of killers farming is incredibly low, especially if you believe the posts here where EVERY game the killer is sweaty and toxic and tunnels everyone out at 5 gens.
AFAIK a hatch escape still counts as an escape, it just doesn't count toward MMR.
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@Krazzik said:
I think the issue was more Sloppy rather than Mangled as a whole. Do killers ever bring mangled addons or Gift of Pain? No, because Sloppy exists and is just a far too easy way to apply two status conditions that have great synergy.
Sloppy Butcher needed some kind of change to reduce it's strength and then after it's usage dropped a bunch, Mangled wouldn't be a huge issue because killers simply wouldn't bring it as much.
If they removed Hemo complete from Sloppy or gave it tokens of some sort so it wasn't just "every time you hit someone you apply these two debuffs", that would have helped.
This change just makes the other sources of Mangled even less desirable than they are now.
It looks like hemorrhage is going to be on the same timer as mangled sloppy butcher is kinda dead. They added an additional nerf to SH: Gift of Pain too. Unless these were mistakes and I haven't seen the correction yet.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3654277#Comment_3654277
It's sad that they would rather make the killer impossible to escape from than to make the game balanced enough to where player skill actually came into it, but alas these forums wouldn't need to exist if they did that. I often wonder if the supposed 60/40 split is truly accurate or if it's just a statistic that's been manipulated simply by only looking at certain games or players that would help fit the narrative
It's not accurate because it contains games where survivors kill themselves on hook, so the kill rate is artificially higher than what it truly is.
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He looks like an Andy to me.
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I feel like she's going to be the one to de-throne Feng.
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Only for Myers if he has scratched mirror equipped.
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This one doesn't make sense at all. Good survivors already avoid healing as long as possible so mangled will be completely useless against them. It's also one of the few status effects that causes slow down on something other than generators.
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@KateMain86 said:
It really needs a buff. Apart from literally just face camping, it doesn't seem to do too much. It doesn't deter killers from staying away from hooked survivors as much as it should have. At best, its only stopped the face camping. Thats good, but it needs to encourage killers to go around more places than just stick around the hook area.
It was specifically designed to stop only facecamping. The devs said they didn't want to take away proxy camping as an option.
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@Chaosrider said:
What is even genrushing?
It's the term used for when survivors complete the gens quickly. It often times comes at the expense of doing anything else like healing, cleansing hexes, and even rescuing teammates from hooks in extreme situations. People dislike it because efficient survivors can finish all 5 gens before killers can make much progress towards getting kills, and the match ends before before teammates get to engage with the killer and everyone leaves with low points.
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@glitchboi said:
2v8 needs to happen inevitably. We have survive with friends and kill your friends, it's time for Kill WITH friends.
Saying KWF phonetically sounds too much like another word and you know it's gonna get called that.
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@Vorahk08 said:
I think the problem of tunneling and genrushing are both cases of the old "players optimize the fun out of a game given the opportunity" issue.
Tunneling:
Tunneling feels like it's a case of the killer either thinking that this is the most efficient way to win (unfortunately, they might be right). I feel like the best way to combat this is to disincentivize tunneling as much as possible.
I saw an idea on another post that suggested replacing basekit BT's endurance with an "intangible" effect, essentially making the killer's hits not register with them, while also allowing the killer to bypass them to attack the rescuer. I like this approach because it solves both tunneling and obnoxious bodyblocking when the killer's trying to play fair. At the same time, OTR still works like normal.
I'd also add a basekit DS. It would only last as long as basekit BT currently does, but the difference would be its timer would stop if the survivor were put into chase or downed before it expires. Basically, if a killer tunnels a survivor off a hook, the timer pauses. If the killer downs a survivor through their basekit BT and OTR, the timer pauses. That way, if a killer really wants to tunnel, they'll have to slug the person. They can't hook them. Killers who get greedy will get DS'd.
Sometimes, though, tunneling is the result of the killer just not being able to find anyone else, so they return to the hook and go for the easy target. Thus, I think new mechanics should be added to incentivize spreading hooks. I'll talk about that below.
Genrushing:
I agree with the idea that toolboxes should get the medkit treatment. Uniform metrics that make them, as a whole, easier to balance while also making them less painful for killers to deal with. I'd also bump the numbers down on a few perks like Overzealous and Déja Vu. While it's fun to blow through a gen with a strong toolbox using Streetwise, Overzealous, and Déja Vu, it's kind of hard to balance. I feel like nerfing perks that enhance gen speeds would also nerf genrushing. If need be, regression perks could also be hit to compensate, but the goal here is to get killers to use more variety builds, so regression perks should probably stay where they are in order to get killers to use one or at most two at a time.
Secondly, I'd make a couple perk effects basekit. The perks themselves could either make the basekit effect stronger or be reworked like Shadowborn. I like the idea of making Deadlock basekit, as others have suggested. Some people have argued for making Corrupt Intervention basekit, but I feel like its effect is too strong to be basekit. Besides, Deadlock is a licensed killer perk that has been in the Shrine once. Corrupt Intervention is easier to get. I'd also make BBQ and Chili basekit. Like I said above, this would also incentivize killers to spread hooks, because now they actually have other targets to go for. It would also encourage killers to go harass survivors doing generators, because killers know exactly where the gens are being done.
I don't think these effects would completely solve either issue, but I think they would be a strong start.
I once suggested to make a version of Corrupt Intervention either basekit or change the perk to block the 3 generators closest to the survivors instead of farthest from the killer. That way survivors have little chance of jumping on a gen unless all 4 are spread out and it gives the killer an idea of where to go from the start.
I've like the idea of making the recently unhooked survivor unable to be hit or bodyblock way more than what we have now, as long as they're unable to complete any actions or follow the killer around for call outs. It would be terrible if an immune survivor could follow the killer until they got a down and be able to get into position for a flashlight or pallet save with no way to stop them.
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@Atom7k said:
It may be not much but here is my part of the idea:
Prevent tunneling:
The entitus feast on your agony so basically you are in direct contact when you're hooked. When you get unhooked you carry the aura of the entitus with you. The entitus is a god and he would not allow one of his killers to be able to use the power granted to them against him. In conclusion this means first of all M2 attacks and all kinds of killer power do not work on you. This is granted until you touch a generator, rescue a survivor or get fully healed. Also it vanishes after 60 seconds. This includes running through all kinds of traps too. Condemed doesn't affect you. You cannot be stalked. The aura of the entitus is an superior force to killers so suvivors are "slipery", they cannot be grabed at pallets or windows. While carrying the aura of the entitus the first hit does no damage to you. (No deep wound either). The aura of the entitus blocks aura reading. (I know it sounds like advanced off the records). Further while hits are still possible, the collision box with the killer (and just the killer) is disabled. (This is good for both because nobody can body block)
However if someone carrying the aura of the entitus is hit by a protection hit (which should not be tried as there is no hitbox) the entitus is angered and pulls you right back on the hook you have been hanging the first time. (this prevents survivors from abusing the system)
The system will be disabled and all entitus aura's deactivated when the last generator get's completed.
In the end the killer gains nothing from tunneling as M2 doesn't work. Hitting the survivor right of the hook does nothing. It is a huge waste of time to keep tunneling. It will not disable the possibility of tunneling completly as we all know that one bully survivor who just needs to end at the hook but it will take longer now and will be harder. In the end it's not enough of a reward to tunnel anymore. Survivors have no room to abuse the system because if they try they end up at the hook again.
Slow down Gen Rushing
For each generator finished the remaining generators needs 10 % longer to repair.
5 gens -> 90 seconds
4 gens -> 99 seconds
3 gens -> 108 seconds
2 gens -> 117 seconds
1 gen -> 126 seconds
While this may slow down the gens it also might be too much for 3 gens (even though killer have limited kicks now) and maybe it's too much in general. I have to admit I don't have more ideas right now for slow down.
These are good ideas too. Would you keep regression perks that remove a percentage of progress the same or change them to remove a flat number of charges? Same question for survivor perks that work on percentage of overall gen charges.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645732#Comment_3645732
Some survivors have good tactics. And quite a few times spend a lot of time hidden. They are very difficult to find and don't mind spending 15 minutes with barely any progress. Then when the killer start to look all around and far away from the gens, they jump them, usually in parallel.
It makes a massive difference if you're getting solo's or chill SWF's. Even a 2 man SWF can do some damage if they're coordinated. I vs'd a TTV last night that I couldn't find to save my life but she was popping gens like crazy. Turns out she and her teammate were giving call outs and when the teammate died he was using the other survivor POV's to tell her everything.
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@Seraphor said:
I would scale repair speeds with remaining survivors / remaining gens.
For each gen that gets repaired, global repair speeds are reduced by 5%.
For each survivor sacrificed, global repair speeds are increased by 10%.
Exact values of course subject to balance calculations, but the gist of it means if 2 survivors are sacrificed gens fly by [20%] faster, but if 4 gens are repaired before anyone is sacrificed then the last one takes [20%] longer.
This would incentivise killers to keep survivors in the trial longer (sort of like a basekit Thanatophobia) while making gens slower as the game goes on, curbing the benefits of early-game genrushing. If survivors are sacrificed then any remaining survivors have more incentive to attempt repairs instead of giving up, and if 3 gens pop in the first chase the killer knows the remaining gens will be tougher. (The latter could have posed issues for 3 gens, but we have a solution to that now)
It could be displayed on the HUD as some kind of 'Entities Favour' gauge, aiding/penalising the killer for succeeding/failing to inflict enough pain and suffering. The lore/mechanism gor this already exists in the entities judgement in the postgame screen for the killer, this would just bring it into live play.
I also think Toolboxes should get the Medkit treatment, mostly standardising their benefits to repairs (like +10/15/20/25% repair speeds with a fixed amount of charges by toolbox rarity instead of the +50/100% with double the charges we currently have) while keeping their sabotage effects different.
I like it. We share some of the same ideas.
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@Huge_Bush said:
I kinda like @Seraphor idea better than mines but here’s it is anyways.
Survivors teleport away from the killer for their first hook when three or more gens are still left. Just like with cages, if the killer comes close, they teleport away again.
To slow down gens, I have no idea since gens are boring enough already. Maybe a side objective like totems? Maybe even increase the totem spawns from 5 to seven and make a weaker version of Undying base-kit where one lit totem ignites elsewhere. It’ll help make Hex perks more threatening and become viable again and make maps see more use.
The hook respawn would need to be random. It's easy to know where Pyramid Head's cages are going to spawn.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645694#Comment_3645694
If you're not playing efficiently you don't get to complain when you don't win. If winning was that important you would do anything you could to win. Including tunneling and camping.
My point is the solution to the OP's problem (not winning) was outlined in the first sentence.
It's starting to seem like you're purposefully misunderstanding the entire point that was made. I've clarified it for you twice now.
Pretend I said "the survivors 3-gen'd themselves" because, well, sometimes survivors 3-gen themselves. It's not an unlikely scenario. The only reason I included that I was spreading out hooks was to get in front of all the "killers only camp and tunnel so you deserved it" comments.
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@MalekithHatesSnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645656#Comment_3645656
"3 genning is boring can you please nerf it?"
"Ok you've nerfed 3 genning what you didn't tunnel and camp? Your fault you lost (if you did we'd whine)
You are making literally 0 sense the most efficient way is to Tunnel and Camp thats true you know what else is efficient? playing nurse with 4 slowdown and meta addons news flash not everyone wants to do that
Sometimes killers do this thing we don't like so we want you to make it where they do more of another thing we REALLY don't like.
Make it make sense.
Tunneling sucks. Anything that encourages it is bad for everyone.
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@BlueMoonBRUHMOMENT said:
Disregarding the fact that "genrushing" and "tunneling" are survivors and killers respectively, literally just doing their objectives faster. Therefore you shouldn't really try and end it/stop it.
Survivors get borrowed time for 15 seconds, but if they get hit and it counts as a protection hit they get downed and BT does nothing.
For Gen-rushing, base-kit 12 second deadlock, and global gen blocking at the start of the game for 15 seconds.
Also I don't disagree with changing objectives, it just seems weird to do in a game where the objectives are already solidified in the community. Maybe in a new game/gamemode, but not in the "base" game.
Yes, genrushing and tunneling are just each side playing efficiently. They're also boring for both sides and are the most complained about issues in the game.
Being afraid to change the base game because that's the way it's always been leads to stale game play, which is where we're at now. Same perks, same killers, same items, same map offerings, same tactics in almost every match.
Giving both survivors and killers a reason to use different builds and interact with each other more while getting the most playtime possible from each match would be a huge benefit to everyone.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645646#Comment_3645646
Even if this post was true (it's not.)
Doesn't change the fact that the most efficient strategy as Killer is to camp and tunnel.
The OP believes they were robbed of a win but then admitted at the start of their post that they weren't playing efficiently.
Once again, you're focusing on the wrong thing. Or are you taking the position that 3-gens never happen in any other situation?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645619#Comment_3645619
You are safe if killer don't chase you to down and keep come back to gens. If you chase only for few seconds, ofcourse they won't be scared of you. And the thing you are telling is sounds like you are holding 3-gens which means this system will punish you. I don't see any problem here.
That's the problem. The survivors created the 3 gen. It was a really bad 3 gen too. Yet in the end I was the one punished for it. Taking any chase was a guaranteed loss. All I could hope for was catching a cocky injured survivor off guard, but that didn't happen because they stayed across the map until they could be healed. When I finally had no choice but to take a chase because the gens were blocked, the other three easily finished a gen and escaped by the time it took to down and hook the 4th. The survivors put themselves in a losing situation but got an easy win due to the new system. They should have beared part of the consequences as well.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645601#Comment_3645601
Survivors avoiding their objective until they have absolute certainty they can do so safe from being hooked shouldn't be considered playing normally either. Both sides should be expected to take a risk.
Survivors are literally never safe from being hooked. They are still taking risks by working on the gens where the killer knows they'll be.
It's the killer that's refusing to take any risks here by refusing to chase. That's what the anti-3-gen is for.
No, you're completely safe if you run away as soon as you see the HUD show the killer is out of chase or as soon as you hear the TR. Eventually the gens will be blocked to the killer so there's nothing to lose in running away until you know the killer is gone.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645576#Comment_3645576
Except the killer's objective is 'kill the survivors'. And the survivors' objective is 'survive'.
The killer was never meant to be a gen-defense bot, and the survivors have no obligation to just sit on a gen until the killer gets a free hit in or two.
Defending gens is fundamental to a killer completing their objective. That's why killers have a basekit ability to cause gen regression and a dozen or so perks to cause gen regression or notify them when gens are being worked on.
Again, we're talking about "playing normally". Killers defending a 3 gen from the start and not taking chases unless it was completely safe to do so was decided to be not playing normally. The opposite should be true as well. Survivors avoiding their objective until they have absolute certainty they can do so safe from being hooked shouldn't be considered playing normally either. Both sides should be expected to take a risk.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645548#Comment_3645548
So why killers are camping and tunnelling in Lights Out mode? Heck, even they are slugging people for 4K.
That's mode pretty much favors killers. Survivors have not strong items or perks. So chases are most likely faster. But yet, killers are still going after one survivor who is just unhooked. Maybe people just love easy games?
That sucks, but that isn't what we're talking about here.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/404809/why-isnt-the-3-gen-nerf-shared
But why aren't survivors required to do the same by working on gens instead of running away
Dude's literally upset the survivors try to not get downed.
The bar keeps dropping.
Nope. Not at all. That's what they should do, just like a killer should be allowed to defend a 3-gen. But it was decided a killer defending a 3-gen isn't "playing normally". With that in mind, survivors constantly running away from their objective isn't "playing normally" either. The nerf should be applied to both sides instead of strongly benefiting one at the cost to the other, especially since both sides can be responsible for creating the situation.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645548#Comment_3645548
I don't disagree. The game should be balanced around hooks/chases over kills/escapes.
But the game is not currently. So I find it odd to ask for a nerf that wouldn't stop tunneling because the user played inefficiently.
I don't think an honor system will stop tunneling. It has to be a hard-drawn line by the devs with ample compensation due to a loss of a playstyle.
Agreed. I'd prefer if they took the approach of making tunneling unnecessary before nerfing it instead of nerfing it and forcing killers to go through 6-12 months of terrible games before fixing it. Thus something like giving a penalty to both sides to eliminate an undesirable playstyle would be a good first step. The same would go for a strong anti-tunneling mechanic. If the killer isn't allowed to touch the survivor, the survivor shouldn't be allowed to have a meaningful impact on the game.
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They seem to hate the condemned ability so much they should just rework it into something different.
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@WolfyWood said:
The first sentence of your post is admitting to playing suboptimally then ends with you asking for a survivor nerf so you can play suboptimally and still win.
I don't get it.
You're not seeing the forest for the trees. This is a situation that can happen anytime. This time I was playing mostly chill because the survivors brought 4 anniversary cakes and I wanted everyone to get their points before killing anyone. But had I played normal and they still made it to a 3-gen the outcome would have been the same. They'd be free to avoid their objective until is was absolutely safe for them to do it and guarantee a win.
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Cenobite and Plague have been my favorites so far.
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Maybe they decided since most SWF's are 2 members that a mimic type killer would work often enough. Or maybe it catches SWF off guard long enough before they can confirm locations.