Exxodus21
Exxodus21
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645145#Comment_3645145
This would be an amazing counter argument if survivors were also able to heal hook states, but as it is, it's just a flimsy excuse. Survivors need to finish a generator to lock their progress, whereas killers just need to hook people once and their progress is already locked.
Moreover, survivors finishing gens lowers the playable section of the map for killers, making them easier to patrol, reducing map size even more and making it more likely for killers to stumble upon survivors even by mere accident. Meanwhile, a killer tunneling a survivor out does not make it easier for the remaining survivors to progress their objective and they in fact make it harder for them.
Apples to oranges.
That's not correct. The equivalent is survivors being able to heal themselves. That's survivors removing progress towards the killer's objective of getting hooks. They also have flashlight saves, bodyblocking, saboing, pallet saves, and perks to reduce wiggle time.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644793#Comment_3644793
That's not what I said in my post.
You said another survivor kites them to you, meaning the the killer is chasing them, then you said once the killer starts chasing you the other survivor doesn't take over your gen, meaning you were working on a gen. Nothing about that situation is being tunneled.
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This is typical of my experience with the 12ish games of survivor I've played today.
https://youtu.be/NBwsI2tIKzA
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644721#Comment_3644721
In my solo q experience, that 1 survivor being chased kites the killer into me, the killer almost always switches to me, the previously chased survivor runs off to look for heals instead of taking over my gen, and I get tunneled out of the match (either because I looped too long and the killer's ego was hurt, or I didn't loop long enough and am seen as the weak link).
This has reinforced my stealthy selfish playstyle. The killer can't tunnel me if I don't get found in the first place.
If the killer finds you on a gen and has been chasing another survivor, you weren't being tunneled.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644736#Comment_3644736
And people tend to greatly exaggerate about how tunneling isn't effective. What's your point here?
I don't think anyone says tunneling isn't effective. The whole argument is that it's the most effective strategy, especially now.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644739#Comment_3644739
It can equal experience (time playing) and I think people conflate time played with time played well.
True, but they could also spend the same amount of time switching between different survivors so a P9 has the same potential for play time as a P100 if they prioritize trying to get all the perks, cosmetics, and charms for each survivor.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I'm surprised Killers are dodging in this mode as this is basically like a brand new game for everyone.
P100s have no perks nor starting items and yet they are still being dodged.
I'm actually surprised, but if this doesn't convince BHVR to hide Prestige, nothing will.
Idk why anyone thinks survivor prestige = skill. Most of the time all it means is that survivor has a main and that's who they spend all of their blood points on.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3644723#Comment_3644723
Tunneling being far less prominent? This whole forum is talking about how bad the tunneling is... What game are you playing?
Incase you haven't noticed, people tend to greatly exaggerate how often tunneling, camping, and 4man SWF death squads happen.
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It's only been a few hours. You shouldn't expect everyone to change their playstyle immediately. I've only played survivor so far today and my teammates are basically trying to play the same as normal and being punished for it, or being too afraid to work on gens that aren't in the open. Most games I'm finding most of the chests completely unopened even though they're a major help. They'll adapt soon.
As far as tunneling goes, for me at least it's been far less prominent in Lights Out. A lot of killers are going completely out of their way to avoid tunneling.
What I've noticed the most being on display is the lack of survivor skill and lack of genrushing. People are getting pulled off gens like they aren't even trying to pay attention. When the hud shows a survivor in chase a lot of them are still too afraid to work on gens with blind spots.
TL;DR: We're seeing how the abundance of information, powerful perks, and strong items are carrying a lot of survivors that have no business winning, and how tunneling wouldn't be necessary at all and could be safely nerfed if the survivors weren't given tools powerful enough to let low skilled players compete far above their skill level.
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I think the reason they went with this game mode first over all the game modes people have been asking for is specifically to get information on how necessary some perks, items, and addons are and to try and see what really is and what isn't an issue.
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I let the last survivors farm if I feel like they had 1 or more teammates throw the game at the beginning or if I feel like there was a serious MMR mismatch.
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I think it may be worse than most people say. I've blocked people sending ######### messages just to have them make a brand new Xbox account to keep messaging. I've had people on a cross-platform log into their Xbox account just to send some BS message. You play "fair" and you get hate and get laughed at if you lose. You play to win and you get hate and chastised for not playing the "right" way. There are toxic behaviors in the game that could be removed, like slugging a team and forcing them to bleed out, but the devs won't do anything about. They don't seem to punish false reporting so people maintain a sense of entitlement when they do it and nothing happens. If you're in console and show the devs people harassing you in messages or voice they won't do anything about it because it's not their platform even though it's because of their game.
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@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642042#Comment_3642042
you cannot be serious
Why wouldn't this be serious? Countering any aura reading perk is distortion or hiding in lockers. The counters to scream perks are calm spirit or hiding in lockers.
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I'm still having fun against him. I feel like this is another example of survivors having to do more than hold w and run to main building so the killer is "unfun" and "overtuned".
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640411#Comment_3640411
I already did.
First of all, your 'anti tunnel perks' that fall into this category is exactly and only one perk, and it's OTR.
Second of all, if you want to avoid anti tunnel perks (OTR) used for body blocking, try pressuring the rest of the map. Since you specifically called it out in your op, BT is absolutely hard countered by not going immediately back to hook the instant you get the notification. So is OTR. Interesting that that's entirely within the killer's ability to avoid.
This is why I said specifically in my first post, if you're getting hit with borrowed time in this case, you really should be asking yourself what the other survivors are doing (it's gens). In that case, you're completely ignoring two people on gens to make sure you are back at hook instantly (within 10 seconds) and complaining that you didn't count to ten first. That's 100% on you.
And if all the gens are done, guess what, OTR is disabled! So in that case you're actually struggling with counting to ten. Literally.
If people actually understood map pressure, there would be far, far less (nearly zero) instances of active body blocking.
BT is absolutely an anti-tunneling perk. You can tell this by the way it has not impact on camping but does have an impact on tunneling. OTR is not the only anti-tunneling perk. Did you forget about DS? BT is not "hard countered" by not going back to the hook. If you're chasing a survivor near and they go near the hook it would be dumb to just walk away. When they unhook the survivor right in front of you and the unhooked survivor bodyblocks do you think the killer should just leave?
The whole reason these perks got reworks in the first place was due to survivors who complained that they needed them every game to deal with tunneling using them offensively.
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No. This is an instance where it's better to sacrifice form for function.
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@squbax said:
I mean even og sadako which was one of the easiest killers to beat had a high killrate, the fact that people are so bad they can make such a killer look good is honestly hilarious.
Also how on earth do you get codemned against new sadako? Tapes have no downside whatsoever, you should always have a tape in your hand to get rid of condemn if needed. Only way I see a survivor getting condemned is if they either did it on purpose or they have not faced more than 4 sadakos in their playtime.
One Pump Willie made a whole video about this. Basically survivors can't be bothered to pick up tapes.
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I've stopped hoping for cross-progression. They won't even do cross-progression for Xbox console and Xbox PC even though it's all the same Xbox and Microsoft account, and much smaller games offer this feature.
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Killers already have to earn their regression and slow down events and now they're limited to how many times they can do it. There's already enough built in limitations.
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@skylerbound said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639234#Comment_3639234
so before with all the broken things, tunneling and camping wasn’t a thing? Or was it… that those things made it worse?
Camping and tunneling have become exponentially worse as the game has been made more competitve.
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I'm not in any rush to buy him. Not sure if I ever will. His perks aren't that interesting for one. Another reason is the game play has gotten stale and I find myself taking more frequent breaks for longer periods of time. It seems like they've gone all in on making the game fun for swf at the expense of solo survivors and killers.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Insanely bad idea from BHVR to create such a boring non counterable killer meta.
JuSt dOn'T gEt hOoKeD bRo.
What do you expect? This and tunneling/camping are all that's left. Every other killer strategy has been taken away because of survivor complaints. The game has been made so competitive that fun and meme builds are nearly impossible to use.
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@pale_hispanic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623629#Comment_3623629
Right I don’t get that part. The 5% kick is a good thing but then having to repair it an additional 5 percent?? They basically buffed kicks to 10% slowdown.
It's not an additional 5%. You just have to repair 5% to stop the gen from regressing when not being worked on.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624061#Comment_3624061
Except if it didn't apply from the beginning it wouldn't address it.
If the gen kicks didn't start until 3 gens were left, we'd still be in the same position we are right now. A killer can pick 3 gens to defend from the beginning, survivors can't break it until they do all the other gens (which would be even more logical now as trying before hand would be wasteful), and then we're right back to the 3 gen attack defense.
Having it from the beginning encourages survivors to try and break the 3 gen early because even if the killer chases them off it impedes the possibility of the killer setting their whole game plan around the 3 gen.
A killer will burn through 8 "regression events" not gen kicks in no time at all if they're specifically defending the last 3 gens. 4 survivors have a massive advantage in a 3 gen situation, so if a killer hasn't been taking chases they're guaranteeing their own loss. Survivors rushing gens without thought to their late game strategy and failing to notice they're 3 gen'ing themselves should be punished for it. And again, BHVR said the system would only apply to 3 gens and that's not what this is.
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They could easily remedy this by preventing the system from activating until there's 3 gens left. They lead us to believe whatever they did would only apply to 3 gen situations anyway instead of giving us this blanket gen regression nerf. Getting out of a 3 gen should be difficult.
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The volume of the chase music is absurd. To some degree I understand wanting to obfuscate sounds so either side has a chance of surprising the other at certain loops, but it needs to be turned down some.
I mostly agree about scratch marks too. They can already be inconsistent in the way they randomly stop showing up for several yards sometimes, and often times don't show up at all if they happened outside of the chase and the killer's POV. Idk if they should be as bright as OP suggests, but they need an improvement of some kind.
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@spagz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512902#Comment_3512902
This is very true. I have seen an abundance of toxic killers recently and they would use the indicators to be more toxic not to be used for regular gameplay. 8/10 times I run into a toxic killer. I haven’t played with that many toxic survivors though.
You were believable until you said you haven't played with many toxic survivors. Survivors are even toxic to each other.
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@AsheruSwiftwind said:
Got to love how people are abusing Plot Twist while hooked on the Deathslingers hook. Come on BHVR at least admit there is a bug and fix it rather than screwing killers over.
They shouldn't be able to delete the Cenobite's box either.
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What hypocrisy? Having a clip of a killer being toxic doesn't mean killer complaints about game balance aren't valid.
This is just a clip. For all we know this Elodie t-bagged him at every pallet and window and he's just giving back the same energy.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385961/its-time-for-the-egc-timer-to-be-constant
"EGC is not there to help killers get kills, so it shouldn't help survivors get escapes" think about this for a second longer, it doesn't make much sense
What doesn't make sense? The EGC shouldn't favor one side or the other so slowing the timer down to help survivors escape in the endgame shouldn't happen. Even of the whole EGC system needs to be reworked so be it but it should be as neutral as possible to both sides.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501967#Comment_3501967
It's really not survivor-sided. EGC only exists to prevent the game from being held hostage. It is not there as a means for survivors to get last-minute saves, nor for the killer to get last-minute kills. Without it, survivors would just open the gates.
Remember that prior to EGC, the only reason to 99 the gates was Blood Warden.
What started this whole discussion is the fact the devs said the reason they slow down the timer when a survivor is downed or hooked is to help them get last minutes saves and escapes. My point is there shouldn't be a mechanic to help one side or the other, even if that means reworking the EGC entirely.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501922#Comment_3501922
Yes, and what happens when the game forcefully ends? All remaining survivors are killed and it counts as a sacrifice. That favors the killer. They could’ve made it so that the game forcefully ends and everyone escapes similar to when a killer disconnects but they didn’t. EGC was put in place to HELP killers because any kind of stand off or scenario in which the survivors aren’t leaving is going to BENEFIT them.
Having the entity sacrifice all the remaining survivors isn’t the killer’s objective. So why do they get those free kills if the survivors don’t escape? Don’t throw stones, bro, because your entire point is asinine.
Oh look, you learned a new word lmao.
I have no idea why the devs decided EGC should kill the survivors. The probably didn't want survivors hiding the whole time so they could have put in a mechanic to force interactions like revealing their aura even in lockers. If the survivor lives through the whole EGC then they survive.
No matter how many times you scream at the moon saying EGC was put there to help killers, you'll never be right unless the devs come out and say something contrary to everything they've said in the past.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501739#Comment_3501739
If the killer just goes and opens the gate when no one is injured or such, sure. But if I have just put someone on basement hook I can open the gate to encourage the others to leave them to die. That’s called pressure. Depending on the current situation opening a gate can be tactical. There’s a reason survivors 99 the exit gates after all.
@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501781#Comment_3501781
How about we just end the game once the last gen is completed? The EGC was created to favor killers but if it’s not enough for you we can flip it and favor the survivors instead. They did, after all, complete their objectives.
The only reason survivors 99% the gate is to avoid blood warden. 99% the gates has probably resulted in more survivor deaths than it's prevented.
Where are you getting the idea that the EGC was put in place to help killers? It wasn't. It was put there to prevent hatch standoffs which would last as long as both players decided to stay. It was supposed to be a neutral mechanic. The devs have said multiple times that EGC is not in place to help killers and it's only function is to force the game to end so neither side can hold the other hostage. Going off what they said they intend for EGC, it should be as neutral as possible for both sides.
Completing gens is not the survivor's objective. Their objective is to escape so giving them a free escape for finishing gens is a ridiculous suggestion, but you're just trying to make an asinine argument.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501128#Comment_3501128
The ENTIRE reason the EGC was implemented was to favor the killer side. It meant survivors couldn’t just hang around and hold the game hostage… in doing so it also presents a looming threat for survivors who are still present. It is entirely fair then to have mechanics in place that slow it down so that survivors aren’t forced to just beeline for the exit. Killers can, after all, open a gate to exert pressure. There is no double standard here. All you are wanting to do is take something that was designed to help the killer and make it even stronger for them by removing any counterplay. That’s not healthy for this game.
Opening the gate relieves pressure on the survivors. The killer does the last part of their objective for them and there's nothing to prevent them from walking out. Plus the killer has to abandon their own objective tondo so. The fact that killers can only start EGC that way is ridiculous.
Maybe the whole EGC system needs to be reworked.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501124#Comment_3501124
yeah only problem is that killer can hostage the match for 4 minutes with slugging. removing speed down would buff blood warden perk.
Slugging isn't holding the game hostage. It's boring and should be discouraged, but the game ends so it's not being held hostage.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500858#Comment_3500858
Shard earning is slow, but its fine for me.
Its just older characters should be alot cheaper by now.
Currently its year 8, years 5 character should be dropped to 80%, years 4 60%, years 3 40%, years 2 and before 20%. Must be cheaper in real money too. Except license DLCs
That would help a lot.
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@C3Tooth said:
The time is short when all survivors still standing, means they have nothing to do and they should leave, which is why the time is short.
The time is slowed down means for survivors to help their teammate. Its still up to you that you can get a kill or not, not the killer need extra help to get a kill by EGC timing out.
That double standard is exactly what I have a problem with. It shouldn't help either side, and 99% of the time survivors are in charge of when EGC starts unless the killer abandons their objective to go complete the last part of the survivor's objective for them which allows them to freely walk out of the exit gate.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501096#Comment_3501096
Your suggestion is not making EGC neutrall tho? You are asking to make it for killer-favored? Your suggestion will make EGC shorter time which means survivors maybe can not save their teammates.
EGC is never supposed to favor killers. It added to game so survivors would not hostage killer in match. And it is just doing fine, no change needed.
They can make the time a little longer for all I care. Personally I think the timer should be at least twice as long as it is now but start as soon as the final generator pops. Obviously exit gate perks would need to be tweaked. I just don't believe either side should be able to mess with EGC.
Like I said, as it is now survivors both control when EGC starts in 99% of cases and they get to slow the timer down to help them escape. It just needs to be completely neutral. Nothing more than a mechanic to end the game.
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@devotedDBDenjoyer said:
doing this would undeniably help killers get kills as the timer would give survivors less time to save teammates without error when their teammate's status changes. you're trying to play the "killers don't get anything for this so survivors shouldn't either" game but this ain't it.
i do not think this will be some super omega killer sided change (before killer players jump me) but i feel acting like this will benefit neither side just because this change would make it be less survivor sided is silly.
also, personal opinion, making kills easier in endgame sounds really boring. if the survivors played around plot twist to get time for their team to heal, good on them. encouragement for teams to do something with the egc time that isn't just immediately leave is a healthy thing for the game, imo. it can lead to more kills for killer due to altruism or it could lead to trades (more points for hooking, who doesn't love points?!) or a teammate got out that otherwise wouldn't have if the timer didn't slow down because the other side played well.
removing this feature encourages instead for people to not try to get their teammate who got downed as often because they have less time, and for killers to not go for outside chases because survivors already would have a low margin of error in egc, there really wouldn't be any reason not to just facecamp a survivor and force trades as it'd be extremely beneficial for the killer to stay and not beneficial for the survivors to stay as the survivors wouldn't get much out of it, making the survivors just leave and ignore altruism. i cannot see why anyone but a killer only player would want this change to be in the game. such an unhealthy thing to encourage egc to be made more boring.
while slowed down egc does hurt killers (i know, i get it, especially if you've had a bad match) it ultimately is the less of two evils as it makes killers have to play smarter on what they should do especially when they have a survivor downed/hooked, at this moment facecamping is less powerful (especially with hookgrabs gone) so it gives more chance of survivor and killer interaction which is good overall for the game, killers just helplessly facecamping in egc is something to avoid (although is very understandable to do, because what else are you going to do?). having killers be put in a scenario where they can use good gamesense and get a ton of altruism kills feels very rewarding and very good on the killer side, and it would be a shame if that was encouraged less by an overall shorter timer making survivors leave more often. i consider myself decent on killer and i have turned the tides a LOT in egc with decent gamesense and it's awesome, which is why i wholeheartedly disagree with this suggestion.
@oreoslurpee said:
so your getting mad because survivors are using a perk to.. help secure end game escapes? quite literally with what you said in your post is the point of the end game collapse timer being slowed?
I believe the EGC should be neutral. There shouldn't be an element to help either side. Now that there's a perk that let's survivors prolong the timer not only risk free, but gain the benefit of being able to heal to full by doing so as well as giving their team relief from the timer to heal with far less pressure, it's time for the EGC to become a permanently fixed time.
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With the size of the game now, in regards to the number of killers and survivors available, the shard system desperately needs an improvement.
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After using it in a few matches a feel like they lowered the odds of getting an item as well as lowered the odds of getting a purple item. None of the add-ons I had today were above purple either.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3500393#Comment_3500393
I'd guess the patch note is worded poorly and they mean addons too, but at the very least i can't imagine their intent was that you can't get maps and red keys and that the intent was to get rid of random pulling of BNP for example.
I haven't played yet today to test it but that would be the strangest part about this change/nerf.
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@FrenchBagels said:
You still get the Utility Torch, Engineer’s Toolbox, and Ranger Kit. It can actually be classified as a buff because it removes the chance to get a Rainbow Map and Skeleton Key which are the weaker items.
Only event items are nuked, which to be fair, seems unintentional since they’re event addons and Ace in the Hole doesn’t have the same effect.
Getting the event add-ons are what really made it stand out though. Loaing keys may not seem like a big deal buy I've had the random key come in clutch on more than a few occasions.
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Do you really want the player that farm's you off hook and self-cares in the corner to come back?
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Bots also have permanent wall hacks so you can't mindgame them like a real person.
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I'm really starting to miss when they would drop clues for an entire week or two before release so everyone could speculate. The Cenobite clues were so fun with the pin on Clown's map, the red blooming on the TV, and the hidden visual message in the audio files.
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@DY86 said:
Cool guide but they’re gonna have to nerf her tbh.
any sadako playing hit and run style is an instant win atm
No it isn't.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
Werent people saying that she was weak?
She is if you pick up tapes early. If you let condemned buildup up you put yourself in a tough spot because several TV's will be off so you have to run around to find a tape.
As long as you make finding a tape an early priority then she's basically the same ole Sadako without the slugging for condemned playstyle.
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Pick up a tape early. Problem solved.
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She feels awful to play as. Survivors just hold tapes which not only prevents her from being able to teleport most places but also prevents any passive condemned build up.
They should've given her a chase power after nerfing her this hard.