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Bhvr done this nerf for now because it's a "nightmare to balance" but they are planning to buff it later.
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@Oputeev_Stas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110014#Comment_4110014
lesss exposed from friends and less hinderence timer from force hesi, arhangel I thought you are knowing everything)
Myers has M2 which insta downs the survivor so the exposed does nothing, friends was only used for info to get to the obsession, with this build you are basically forced to not tunnel to get value so it does benefit survivors more basically.
Friends till the end is niche perk and quite weak, forced hesitation is also niche and not used in slugging builds, it's clouraphobia (which is getting nerfed). Forced hesitation is often used just by bubba and sometimes Myers, it's rarely used by other killers and you are forced to use infectious fright with it.
Vigil was used to make exhaustion shorter, it was never specifically used to count those perks but it was just an additional effect which it quite overpowered.
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@esarraf said:
Bro did not realize chess Judge existed and it shows.
You could still dodge the attacks if you pay attention, you were able to see it coming with enough time to dodge, I have done this myself and it was very easy to do so.
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Bhvr said they are going to do some change later to the perk, it's probably a rework.
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Boon: Steadfast is a strong perk, I don't understand why do so many people call it bad, the gen rushing potential is genuinely insane and I saw it (there's literally footage with it) and you are underestimating how strong is 50% slower regression.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
It's play while you wait as well, a lot of killer players who dont care how well they do on survivor side.
I don't think that play while you wait does anything, most killer mains don't use it, I use it rarely but if I do I am actually much better than majority of my teammates, I do loop well and I do the gens but my teammates are actually so bad most of the time.
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@random1543 said:
It takes like 5-10 seconds to hit everyone out I dont get why people want to abandon so badly.
If the survivors had something like base kit BT after x amount of time they would also not be allowed to abandon by my guess. As Rulebreaker was saying its about the agency the players has, not just because you lost.I dont get why people want to abandon so badly.
Because it's so annoying seeing t-bagging after a bad match where you got only 1 or 2 hooks, or a match where you got everyone to death hook but they still escape and t-bag when you were nice to them, or a match where you just got gen rushed (every or majority of survivors having hyperfocus + stakeout and BNP).
It wasn't enjoyable and they make it only worse by t-bagging.
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Whip dragging is probably the only thing that keeps nemesis in B tier so I think it should stay even if it's a bug like it's in the game for quite awhile now so I would think that bhvr would have removed it by now if it was a bug like it's an easy fix probably but nemesis does need it.
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And I don't want to play survivor because I enjoy killer side more.
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This is classic solo q, try to play in full swf and I don't see how more killer players would affect survivors like the MMR system is bad but it's somewhat decent (it should be better after that change bhvr is going to do).
I have tho one thing in mind which probably lowered the skill needed by survivors.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109556#Comment_4109556
I mean I think the OP is proposing it needs a rework, not a nerf. Or at least some kind of change, which I'd agree with. Hitting the obsession makes the perk work, and the obsession is the counter, yes. That exact combo is why the obvious way to use this perk is to tunnel the obsession to oblivion. It's not the strongest perk or anything, but any perk that incentivizes tunneling should probably be looked at.
A rework for this perk should keep it an endgame perk and waste as much time as it currently does but without the tunneling part (without the counter basically ig).
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I think the thing that needs to be addressed as well is people dc a lot cuz they are inconvenienced in some way, basically just entitlement.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109610#Comment_4109610
Also are you on about basement stairs? coz if its in main, they aren't usable, maybe I've missed something, could you show me
I can't find footage of it but it's not basement, it's some chairs basically and you can go up on them in middle basically but it might be not tall enough to activate the perks I think, probably not as I think about it.
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I am pretty sure bhvr is going to add a quality of life where you can make the sensitivity different for different killers, I think in this update with the judgement.
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There's actually one elevation on that map but not everyone knows you can go that way. But all shake and thunders does need some buff (the cooldown is not needed imo) and balanced landing is fine as it does give haste like lithe does but also there's an additional buff that actually helps wast more time than using lithe.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109449#Comment_4109449
I can happily confirm that the change to Nowhere To Hide will be available at the launch of Chorus of Sin, so you don't have long to wait!
Ok thx, that's good to hear.
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Bhvr uses free version of easy anti-cheat
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@Elan said:
As P100 Houndmaster I'd say she's one of the weakest killers in the game. Change my mind, but using search in chase instead of chase is way more effective. People who just camp pallets and stun the dog are nightmares to go against even if they suffer short hindred but with that many connected pallets it's not really a problem to make it to another loop. Houndmaster has many options in form of builds but her chase potential is very low and unless they remove the dog stun I can't see her being very good. Dog is very easy to dodge and redirecting mostly hinders than help. I'm not saying she's garbage tier, but she's very weak and her main strenght is to combo perks with her add ons.
Are you sure she is "one of the weakest killers in the game"?, in many tier lists she is A and when playing her she seems to be very strong with a great chase power as well as mobility (tho locking the search command on a gen is very hard sometimes) and she is definitely stronger than majority of B tier killers like wraith or Chucky.
Dog is very easy to dodge and redirecting mostly hinders than help.
Projectiles are supposed to possible to dodge like that's where you need skill, you should be skilled enough to hit the survivors with the first dash and redirecting.
Ig pallets are the only counter to houndmaster and they were not that hard to deal with personally like you can send the dog over the pallet then redirect to hit the survivor (which you should be skilled enough to hit) and you have enough time to break the pallet and M1 them like camp them until you get your dog back, the cooldown is not that long.
I just think you underrating her A LOT, if pallets are really that big issue for you then use perks that help against pallets like brutal strength to break them quicker.
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This would be a good thing but the queue times wouldn't be the best.
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Wait for the 1v1 and infection game mode, also 2v8 will return early next month.
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It is an endgame perk and it's supposed to slowdown the survivors drastically so you can still have a chance to win, ig the tunneling part is an issue with this perk but how else can you change it and the obsession is literally the counter to this perk.
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He is fine as 4.6,
He has 0 mobility unlike other killers
clear pallets within seconds
Only with one guard with a long cool down.
help him out strongly in chase
That's what any power is supposed to do and there are stronger abilities than his guards which still have a counter.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109411#Comment_4109411
most people dont have chat because they are on console or they keep chat closed. desiring that is not reasonable.
Nod back at them at gates or dont go to gates. them doing that is only negative if you and them mutually decide its negative. otherwise its a nothing gesture that your just assuming the intent is to annoy you.
Most players i am quite confident are oblivious to made up dbd etiquette that we like to throw around in places like this
Ye, I am not talking about console players and there's a lot of pc players that are able to say GG, like I wonder why exactly do survivors say GG when the killer lost but basically never say it when the killer got a 3k/4k, they do sometimes.
I am not trying to complain, I am just saying this would make a better experience for a lot of people probably.
T-bagging is obviously a gesture created in gaming to annoy the other person and survivors will get annoyed if killer does a gesture like this (w+s and hitting on hook, I only do those when they t-bag). Ig hitting on hook and w+s is also a nothing gesture then.
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They are going to do that later but personally I don't understand why not do it now if they are already planning on doing that
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@crogers271 said:
I never saw a survivor who said "Ah man we finished two generators within of 30 seconds, we should slow down a bit and do some totems and chests so the Killer can catch up".This is actually really common where the survivors are well ahead so they start doing chests, totems, trying for unnecessary saves, etc.
Like most complaints in the game, the idea that this is just one sided is silly.
Basically no one does that and I wouldn't count trying getting saves as a thing to lower the efficiency (getting a save wastes a lot of time on the killer side).
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I totally agree with this
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@CrypticGirl said:
I think the first question to ask yourself is, what would make it more fun for you? Of course, everyone is going to have a different answer, and none of them would be right or wrong. But for example, if I walked up to you and let you put me on the hook, would that make it more fun for you?
It would be more fun if survivors stop t-bagging/clicking flashlights at gates and say GG more often and not just when the killer lost.
Personally I have always said ggs.
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Just no,
I don't wanna pick up survivor looking at a wall, not next to a pallet/window or next to a locker and survivors just to get save for basically free anywhere and diversion can be used multiple times.
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The only time I have ever dodged a lobby is when someone had a discord link as their name and that's 100% a cheater, I literally had a few matches ago a different person with discord link and they were blatantly cheating by completing all of the gens instantly, so always dodge people with discord link as their username.
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@Guardian116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108030#Comment_4108030
You gave the definition of griefing which is exactly what tunneling is.
Griefing is deliberately annoying or sabotaging the other player, tunneling is a strategy where the person tunneling is only trying to win with no consideration of the other person, it wasn't a deliberate action to ruin survivor experience and I have explained how tunneling can be more enjoyable for the survivor.
If tunneling is grifieng then gen rushing or getting flashlight/pallet saves is also griefing.
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@cogsturning said:
I don't mind changing the objective but I don't really want to encourage survivors actively sabotaging one another. There's already enough of that in every other mode.
The win condition of this suggested game mode is to survive by yourself and not care about your teammates, if you sabotage them then after they are killed you automatically win.
Other games don't have any ways to sabotage other survivors, you can have bad teammates that sand bag you or something, you can play in swf do that to not happen.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109174#Comment_4109174
the Devs can implement a short timer system that requires Survivors to move after not moving for an “x” amount of time. Since there’s no gens to patrol, they just need to move around to come across Survivors that have to move. Killers could maybe also get faster movement speed when not in chase.
it’d just be nice to have the devs move away from gens and try new things.What if the survivors just goes around in circles in the corner of the map, actually whispers can be added to the killer but I feel like the system should make it so survivors move and don't stay in one area for too long and ig lockers can be removed too.
I think this should be just a separate game mode but it can still have the darkness and some features of lights out like no scratch marks and no terror radius.
It would be interesting for something that doesn't have gens, that infection game mode bhvr is making will have no gens and the 1v1 game mode will also not have gens so that's something.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109157#Comment_4109157
Keep juking while they spam M2, sooner or later you will get hit. I know the counterplay, I just don't enjoy it. And the SFX is also very grating.
You are supposed to get hit eventually, some others killers can spam their M2 as well like pyramid head.
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Have you experienced a 2v1 situation where killers slugs one and looks for the other while they are hiding and they wait for the bleed out so it a big waste of time, so it would be literally that and even worse where the killer can't see much, like I have seen a fully black costume being used in lights out and it's actually so hard to see it like I have lost survivors literally infornt of me and imagine if they just hide in a bush.
Like survivors can hide easily in lockers and corners of the map, survivors wouldn't get aura of other survivors so how are they supposed to sabotage other survivors and ig killers can mori the survivors after downing them.
I think lights out should stay as a separate game mode but a separate hide and seek game mode can be made which gives some info to killers (and a low amount of killers to choose from, maybe unique classes like in 2v8 for killers and survivors), this game mode can have the darkness like in lights out and survivors as well will get stuff to sabotage.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109154#Comment_4109154
That's what I prefer about killer though: my situation is my responsibility alone. I don't want to be trapped in an unwinnable match because of someone else, nor do I want to be that one that fumbles it for the team. As killer I'm in control, and if I blow it or I'm outclassed it's only me I have to worry about.
And in a lot of situations you can't do anything as killer and on survivor side you can play in swf so those situations don't happen (nothing stops you from playing in swf) but on killer you are the responsible and it often feels unfair so that's where anxiety comes from for people as they can't rely on anything else because it's only them they "have to worry about" unlike on survivor side.
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Ok and how exactly is killer supposed to find the survivors?
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109123#Comment_4109123
Survivors already knowingly play the role that is statistically disadvantaged - if they wanted a "free win" they would play killer.
It's never a free win for killer side.
@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471254/the-first-power-needs-a-nerf
You're not alone, The First's power is just not enjoyable from the survivor side. The Worldbreaker duration (after the clock is done) was nerfed a while back from 60 to 50 seconds which is at least something.
However like someone else said, only one person needs to do a clock. Running towards the killer when they are aiming can make it difficult for them - the same goes for shining a flashlight towards them and/or blinding. Things like Boon: Shadow Step can also help the whole team as there are a few aura add-ons.
Unfortunately the best thing you can do against killers like this is do generators as fast as possible, and hope for a better game next time.
Unfortunately the best thing you can do against killers like this is do generators as fast as possible, and hope for a better game next time
Or the actual best thing you can do is learn the counter play to the killer and every single one of them has it.
The First's power is just not enjoyable from the survivor side.
Maybe actually it's not enjoyable because survivors don't learn the counter, it's actually quite fun to try to be unpredictable and actually be good at this and also predict where the killer will put the vines, the skill gap I have seen as Henry creel main between survivors is big and I can name a lot of killers which you should agree are much less fun to go against as survivors with a boring counter play.
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109100#Comment_4109100
Yeah tbh with some perks I can see them being rather potent, for example Hex: Ruin or TBTC (Henry's perk) for their spammability of regression, or things like Jason's addon to often proc the regression
Compromising perks require the person to kick the gen to activate and after the compromise was activated the gen should be kicked again.
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@Elan said:
Have you heared of dramaturgy?
Dramaturgy gives half as much haste, needs the survivor to be healthy, there's risk of getting exposed (also screaming which does give information to the killer sometimes) and getting an item or double activation is still luck based and not that good.
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I main the first and survivors I play against deal with him perfectly fine, his counterplay is being unpredictable and that's what you should learn, I have seen good players and bad players and the difference is massive, you just need to learn the counterplay.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109054#Comment_4109054
When they nerf hyper focus + stake out you won't start saying that now you don't need to tunnel, you'll move on to saying something else means you must tunnel. If survivors don't slam gens the killer isn't going to magically stop tunneling and nerfing this combo just makes tunneling stronger by further weakening the counterplay (slam gens).
Strong killers just eat right through ds and shoulder, they are hardly even a speed bump to tunneling. Nerfing tunneling would hurt stronger killers more then weaker killers exactly because the weaker killers have a harder time doing so and that then makes it easier to adjust other aspects of their power.
Regression perks are still strong, if they weren't killers wouldn't run them and they certainly wouldn't run four of them.
Killers have gotten additional gen time, immediate regression on kick, less wipe time, decreased survivor distance on hit, removal of gen tapping... Both sides have received adjustments to make the game feel better and it's past time that was applied to tunneling.
What I want is gen rushing nerfed but the tunneling can be nerfed with it or a buff for not tunneling.
Strong should get nerfed and that it's harder for weak killers to tunnel doesn't mean that it's easier for them to not tunnel, they need tunneling because they lack a lot on the power (killers below A tier need tunneling).
Survivor perks are just stronger in general and they get 16 of them like 4 exhaustion perks are much stronger than pain res, I personally don't like to use slowdown and I normally try to use just 1 or 2 if can make a combo from other perks (you need multiple perks on killers for them to be decent), I prefer fun builds like I have a few actually on my mains but I can't think of any more and the diminishing returns ruined a lot of them, so I just use 4 gen kicking perks (and only sometimes full slowdown with pain res) when i don't feel like using any other perks (btw if killers is using a slugging build they have no slowdown).
I totally agree that both sides have gotten buffs against their problems, survivors are getting elusive when unhooked to reduce tunneling, it's better than 15 seconds which was too safe and abused and it will let survivors to hide from the killer.
You basically said what I said but the opposite of it.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109062#Comment_4109062
But keeping tunneling as it is is not the solution. This does not make the weak Killers any stronger and it does not make the strong Killers any less oppressive to go against.
Which is why there need to be changes to tunneling and slugging (which will not happen, Killer Mains made sure about that with mass hysteria) and Buffs to the weaker Killers. But general Buffs or Nerfs to mechanics will not help weak Killers in the slightest.
The 2 seconds cool down reduction is not going to help ghostface, I want strong hook incentives personally for not tunneling/slugging like wesker having a third dash for 30 seconds and this make it more fun for both sides (but the strongest killers having a small buff and being punished for doing this or just nerfing them with good hook incentives).
Killer Mains made sure about that with mass hysteria
Should I talk about survivor mains hysteria? Both sides have their complaints and the anti-tunneling and anti-slugging updates were too punishing and it was abused a lot by survivors, the second one in the Krasue patch was better but killers got nothing as the blood lust is literally useless so that's why killers hated it.
Reducing amount of pallets will definitely help, maybe making different killers have less or more pallets on the map depending on how strong they are.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109057#Comment_4109057
I love it how I made a big post, you quote 13 words from it, just to show that you did not read my post.
I did but there's nothing good to talk about, it is easier to do tunneling on strong killers but it's required on weak killers and nerfing tunneling will not do anything to the strong killers but make it only worse for weak killers.
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@pidgeon said:
Why are you wanting to nerf already bad perks that can happen at most 5 times a game when in practice it happens maybe 2-3 times.
This is a buff as they activate after the stops regression and the nerf will compensate for a strong buff, like if there's a gen with a lot of progress and survivors really want to complete it then they will stop regression knowingly the killer will get a bonus and the killer might stop them from completing the gen.
This is a pretty good buff in my opinion, especially to the spring trap perk which is currently useless.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I dont think that the games are that fast. Most of my games are around 10 minutes, some less than 10 minutes, some more. But the average is a bit over 10 minutes.
I also disagree with that:
especially older ones that are slow
To preface what I am about to say: I am talking about tunneling and slugging from the start. I am NOT talking about the Killer who sees an opportunity to slug or tunnel or feels the need to do that because of the state of the match. So I am not talking about the Killer who slugs because a Survivor is nearby for a Flashlight or Pallet Save. I am also not talking about opportunistic slugging when another Survivor is spotted and it would be good pressure. Also not talking about the Killer who slugs or tunnels because there is 1 Gen left and they need someone dead.
I am talking about Killers who go into the game with the intent to slug and/or tunnel from the start.
And this is done by the strong Killers, not the "older" or "slow" ones. One big reason is that they are better at doing it. A Blight will always have an easier time to tunnel someone out compared to a Ghostface. Or slug from the start, especially with his big Terror Radius, Infectious Fright and Coulrophobia.
Plus I have the feeling that Killer players who play weaker Killers are more chill in general. They dont go into the match to 4K at any cost, they obviously play to win, but they also know that they will have a harder time and should not expect to win all the time with their Trapper or Ghostface. People who play mainly Ghoul, Nurse or Blight on the other hand want to 4K more often and are therefore more likely to slug and tunnel. And this has nothing to do with matches being fast, if anything, they make the matches fast.
should not expect to win all the time with their Trapper or Ghostface
They don't expect to win because it's really hard for them and they are ones that rely on tunneling to even have a chance.
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@Firellius said:
The game actually got slower on the survivor side. Basekit regression was boosted, and gens take longer to complete. Killers tunnel more because there's more room to do so, with DS getting a really agressive nerf. Additionally, with gens taking longer, the best counter to tunnelling (Rushing gens) also got nerfed.
This in turn means that survivors need to bumrush generators because a tunnelling killer cannot be challenged after they start tunnelling, you have to be on it from the start. And with survivors stacking as much anti-tunnel as possible in order to stand a chance, killers have started circumventing all of it by using slugging.
I legitimately think that tunnelling/slugging/camping are lynchpins in balancing issues and a lot of problems could be resolved if those methods were nerfed. But any attempt to address them will get met with outrage, so they get a free pass.
Hyper focus + stakeout exist and the game insanely quick when a team uses it and killers only counter is to tunnel, like if the killer doesn't tunnel, survivors are not going to magically stop gen rushing. A game literally can be completed in 5 minutes even if the killer has a full slowdown, I have a video of a gen being completed in 22 seconds by one survivor so all 4 survivors are able to complete a gen in under 30 seconds with gen rushing build.
best counter to tunnelling
It's shoulder the burden, shoulder the burden with ds and the killer will genuinely struggle to tunnel because of strong this is and exposed ain't doing anything.
Ds is still a very strong perk, if it was bad now then it wouldn't be used.
Basekit regression was boosted
Gens have an 8 kick limit and majority of slowdown perks have been nerfed overall and regression speed perks were nerfed as well like ruin or call of brine, a full slowdown build with pain res, pop goes the weasel, DMS and eruption is much weaker currently then it was years ago. Killers have nothing base kit (like a perk) unlike survivors and idk what are you talking about base kit regression cuz they have non.
Survivors were buffed a lot with pallet density update and also even stronger base kit bt.
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I personally think that there should be a new mechanic like a new material both killers and survivors can interact with (but nerfing amount pallets/windows a bit) or something related to the objective on both killer or survivor, or a new thing both sides can bring (there's offerings, perks, add-ons, powers/items and another box in the load-out which does something in game).
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4108904#Comment_4108904
I think the obsession perks are balanced in a way so that you need to find them and be aware of who they are. Are you saying that you want to reduce more of the game to 0 thinking? Also the new perk Celestial Witness will show you the obsession.
Outside of a range and you need to down as well as hook them in 30 seconds to get value from a perk like furtive chase so the only obsession perks that works with it is save the best for last, obsession perks are weaker than majority of the perks and they are balanced around that you only have one person this works with, giving aura will be a nice quality of life and you do need something to show the aura so a whole perk or an add-on.
Ig you do want killers to just use slowdown, you barely see obsession perks used by themselves or with an aura perk like lethal pursuer and this buff would encourage that instead of the usual slowdown.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
I think it would then make it too easy to use the obsession-based perks. They take a little bit of brainpower now, let's keep it that way.
Explain how pls? They are not the best perks in the game and a small buff wouldn't be bad like there are survivor perks that requires literally 0 thinking to use, with obsession perks you still need skill to chase most of the time or use the information effectively like with friends till the end or not waste stacks when using play with your food, knowing where the obsession is when using lethal pursuer would be helpful but will not have a big impact on the game and compensate a bit of time for not using slowdown perks.
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If it's that slow you then use perks like forever entwined and/or agitation, also idk if it's just for me but on different killers the animations seem slower or faster like breaking a pallet or kicking a gen so try switching a killer maybe (I know the breaking speed doesn't change but it feels like that).
I do indeed believe that killers need a buff but this is not the buffs I would want, but it would be worth testing in a ptb, this might be a good implementation.