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@GoodBoyKaru said:
This post will be pretty long, I feel like I should warn you.
BOONS | THE PROBLEMS
Boons have been a contentious issue since first being added alongside Mikaela Reid in 2020. From release Circle of Healing breaking the game, to promoting a frustrating gameplay loop, to several accessibility issues, Boons now sit in a weird spot where nobody likes facing them despite having a relatively low usage rate and middling escape rate across the board (stats taken from Nightlight.gg on August 1st 2026 which, I'm aware is not 100% reliable, but is the best we have at the moment). Compared are some of the most-used survivor perks.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5BI15KFLBKME/image.png
Now obviously, we don't want to buff boon perks to equal these usage rates, but with the exception of Shoulder (which is chronically underutilised) the difference in perk usage becomes clear, especially Dark Theory and Illumination. The payoff these perks give feel far too situational, or that one must construct an entire build around it, and it isn't worth the 14s it takes to set these perks up. This is something compounded further with Aurora's new boon perk, Steadfast, where the 10% increase to gen speeds gives you an 8.19 second boost verses the 14 seconds it takes to set up the totem (and due to diminishing returns running it with Overzealous doesn't even help). So for problem number one: the effects feel too situational or not worth running, especially compared to other perks which give a lot more value.
Despite being used so infrequently, however, the frustrations with boons from the killer's perspective are many. For example, there's no real way to permanently deal with the perk - it's all well and good snuffing the totem, but it can be back up in 20 seconds. Totem spawns can be forgiving, and it's a minor annoyance, or there can be a boon on Ironworks of Misery and it takes an eternity to snuff each time. Shattered Hope exists, but has no effect beyond dealing with boons, so becomes a wasted perk slot any match a boon is not in play, and again boon perk effects are simply not strong enough to justify using an entire perk slot on, with the exception of perhaps Exponential or Circle of Healing. This promotes a frustrating gameplay loop of constantly going out of your way to snuff a totem, which just keeps being relit, and even if this isn't an optimal play it's a frustrating one to deal with. When playing the role which is already so pressed for time, having to take side detours to counter the effects of the boon feels bad.
Another issue is the only signal a boon perk is in play, the sound effects. A large crack of thunder when the perk is first placed (which just sometimes doesn't play), and the chimes when within the area of effects. There is no visual queue, unless actively looking at the Totem, that a boon is in play, presenting quite the accessibility issue for those hard of hearing or deaf.
So, how do we fix this?
KILLER FRUSTRATIONS
The killer frustrations are easier to deal with, so I'll begin with these.
NEW: Boons now have a global cooldown of 60 seconds
To help avoid the constant booning and re-booning, where Killers often feel powerless to deal with the perk (which could be Illumination, or could be Exponential), all boon perks will now go on cooldown once the totem has been snuffed for 60 seconds, after which another boon can be set up. This helps make the decision to snuff a boon feel more worthwhile, adds some strategy into the decision (ie. can you do enough in 60s to capitalise on the time where no boon is being used, or is it more worth it to keep it up for now to use it to help you snowball later), and reduces frustrations of feeling unable to really counter the perks. During this 60s, no new boons can be set up by anyone on the survivor team, to prevent abuse in SWF teams where they would have realistically 1 second of downtime per person (14s to bless).
NEW: Boons now have visual indications for the Killer
As mentioned, boons are a killer's accessibility nightmare, so adding some visual queues as well should help this. Specifically:
- When a boon is in play, the Killer is notified via a red "Debuff" icon in the bottom right of their screen
- When within the Chimes radius, the Killer's screen will receive a blue vignette, similar to Survivors
- When within 16m of the Totem, the aura of the boon is revealed to the killer
These changes were made to help those who are hard of hearing understand a boon has been set up (to which they currently would be entirely unaware), understand they are in an area where a boon is active, and help track the totem down if unaware of totem spawns, a change particularly targeted towards newer players who may struggle with accessibility issues. However, this should also just help newer players as a whole, who may not understand that Ye Ol Call of Zues means a boon has been set up.
NEW: Shattered Hope can be used independently of boons
Shattered Hope, thematically, works as a perk, and I don't wish to change it too drastically. Therefore, I would change it as follows:
- Press the Active Ability 2 Button when in front of a Dull Totem to destroy it, or in front of a Boon Totem to destroy it instead of snuffing it.
- Destroyed Totems reveal the Auras of Survivors within 2m/3m/4m.
- Destroying a Totem in this way reveals the Auras of Survivors within 28m for 8 Seconds.
This change does a few things. Firstly, it keeps the thematic identity of Shattered Hope in-tact (I'd argue it strengthens it). It grants the killer a reason to destroy totems outside of Pentimento (which would work, but one a Pentimento totem has been cleansed there is no aura benefit). It grants small pockets of aura reading around the map, which wouldn't be too impactful, but their position in loops may help rarely. It keeps the main draw, which is the ability to counter boons and gain a powerful aura read, while also granting the choice to keep a totem standing. This could be useful when the killer is running, ie, NOED, but also to funnel Survivors into only using the weaker totems a killer can patrol to easier and take better control of due to the new global 60s cooldown. It makes Shattered Hope more worth running, as now it does something beyond boons, and it helps it counter more perks. Survivors using Lend a Hand, Overzealous, Inner Strength, Counterforce, etc. would miss out on their perks' powerful effects, while punishing them for cleansing. Finally, and most importantly, this all makes Shattered Hope more worth running.
NEW: Boon effects no longer stack.
This isn't really a pain point right now with the 24m range, but some changes below justify this change also being made to prevent Circle of Healing or Exponential from running away with us again. Putting it below felt weird, so up here it goes.
SURVIVOR FRUSTRATIONS
Now, let's address some survivor frustrations: namely, that they are too situational and not worth the time investment. The following two changes are global changes, with individual perk changes in the subsequent section.
NEW: When a boon is active, increase your blessing speed by 20%.
This is a part of Illumination I particularly enjoy, buffed a little further to account for the new global 60s cooldown. It makes it less of a timesink to bless totems, as moving the boon totem now takes far less time. It makes it easier to bless in riskier areas, as it's possible to bless in a safe area then set up a Shadow Step or Dark Theory in 11.67 seconds in a riskier spot where the Killer may be patrolling to assist a teammate in chase.
BUFF: Increase boon ranges to 28m
On the PTB, boons were 28m. This was nerfed to 24m when the perks came to live. I feel like 28m could be re-tested, making the perks less situational as there is a wider area they can be used in. This change was made to bring release Circle of Healing down a peg, and it entirely failed to do this. Ideally, these perks would have different ranges, but it would make stacking boons a technological nightmare and be very difficult for new players to understand; this is the much simpler option, even if it makes balancing a little more difficult.
Those who remember that PTB, fret not, for boon totems no longer stack their effects.
INDIVIDUAL CHANGES
Boon: Circle of Healing
The big one, the one everyone's afraid of: I'd actually leave Circle entirely untouched. 100% healing increase without a medkit across a wider area, aura reading across a wider area, and being able to set it up easier leaves this perk in a pretty good spot for both solo and SWF. I think the above boon changes would more than help keep it in-line, and failing this a number tweak (down to, ie, 55%/65%/75% from 50%/75%/100%) could be made.
Boon: Dark Theory
Dark Theory used to be alright, before diminishing returns, but even then was only really used in a situational build with other Haste perks (ie. Made for This, Dead Hard, Dark Theory, Hope). A numbers buff is needed alongside the area buff, but this cannot really be done without making it too scary when combined with other Haste perks despite diminishing returns. Therefore, I propose the following:
- When within the Boon's radius, Survivors gain 5% Haste. This effect lingers for 2s/3s/4s after leaving the Boon's radius.
- Survivors cannot gain Haste or Hindered other than by this perk's effect or Killer powers.
So, my thought process: Haste stacking makes the perk scary? Remove it outright. Give it another additional effect helping it to counter killer hindered perks, though the devs have specifically said they want to reduce survivor perks interacting with killer powers, so they have a little carve-out. Add-ons would remain affected. Finally, the numbers buff itself is to 5% to match it with Hope, an incredibly powerful endgame perk, and to help alleviate the issue of being unable to use your own Haste perks inside the boon's range (ie. Sprint Burst would activate and give you Exhaustion, but you would not gain the Haste from it).
Once more, if this proves a little too powerful, taking it down to 4% Haste should be sufficient (and a return to 3%, though I think wholly unnecessary, would still be justified due to the Hindered removal, and wider range of effect the perk now enjoys).
Boon: Exponential
Another big one which runs a risk of running away with itself, Exponential by itself is fine, but can be problematic when paired with Conviction or Flip-Flop/Power Struggle specifically. I therefore think that the perk itself could honestly remain unchanged, or may even justify a small nerf. It is specifically very abusable in SWF teams where picking up immediately is impossible due to flashlights or the threat of pallet saves, and the increased range would make it harder for the killer to down a survivor and make it to the boon in-time. The global cooldown of 60s should help in this situation immensely, however, preventing a permanent Exponential from taking place and granting a blissful 60s of slugging peace. Therefore, I'd leave the perk unchanged, or much like Circle reduce its numbers to 55%/65%/75%.
Boon: Illumination
The most unique of the Boons and the most successful escape-rate wise, purely because it hasn't been used enough to see this escape rate plummet again. Illumination has a wonderful concept, and is executed terribly. I therefore suggest the following rework:
- All Generators, Chests, and Totems within the Boon's radius are revealed to all Survivors outside of the Boon's radius.
- All Generators, Chests, Totems, Pallets and Windows within the Boon's radius are revealed to all Survivors within the Boon's radius.
- Repairing revealed Generators, cleansing or blessing revealed Totems, or vaulting revealed Pallets or Windows is performed 10% faster.
So, what the hell was I thinking with this?
Firstly, the perk currently only works for those within the range to see everything beyond the range, however when they leave this range they lose access to this aura reading. This feels entirely backwards, so I firstly reversed it: all gens and chests within the totem's range are revealed to everyone, alongside totems, which seems like an odd omission. When survivors get closer, more is illuminated to them, seeing now the auras of nearby pallets and windows too. Finally, to give the perk more utility and ensure it is deserving of a spot in people's builds when they have more than 150 hours, it increases the action speed slightly of all interactions with revealed props. I don't feel 10% is a particularly insane number - it is 1% higher than resilience, but due to diminishing returns will not stack and simply makes the perk more worthwhile setting up (see my above discussion on Steadfast's 10% for why this isn't a crazy number, especially with the global 60s cooldown).
Boon: Shadowstep
Another nice easy one, this has fallen off simply because it feels outclassed by Self-Preservation. While the increased range is nice, this perk should receive an additional slight tweak.
- Survivor's within the Boon's radius receive the Elusive status effect.
- This lasts for 2s/3s/4s after leaving the Boon's radius.
This makes it a useful side-grade to Self-Preservation, spreading the effect teamwide at the cost of restricting it to a smaller area where it may not always be useful. It already does most of Elusive anyway; no reason not to go the whole way.
Boon: Steadfast
This perk isn't even out yet, and my problems with it are two-fold. As mentioned, it simply is not worth it to set up the perk, and it also isn't like what we saw in the PTB. Therefore, I propose the following changes
- Generators within the Boon's radius become Blessed Generators.
- Blessed Generators have the following unique properties:
- Great Skill Checks adds one Permanent Charge* to the Generator.
- Generators regress at 200% speed.
I know everybody saw the permanent charge bit above and panicked, but this is not permanent charges like on BNPs, Fast-Track, or Specialist, which reduces the total charges to complete the generator. Instead, this would take an existing charge and make it so it cannot be regressed, cutting the time down to complete the generator from zero but crucially not the time to complete the generator if already working on it. This also comes with the added risk of any non-permanent charges being removed quicker. It helps against three-gen or other regression-heavy builds, particularly The Judgement's new perk Lay Waste (which is a thematic touch I would love), but does not speed up gen speeds. Instead of creating shorter games, it helps in the longer games, when resources are depleted. This is something I'd like to see added to BNPs, Fast-Track and Specialist too, but that's for another post at another point. And crucially, this is much closer to the perk we voted for.
I'M NINETEEN AND I NEVER LEARNED HOW TO READ
For those who don't want to read my reasoning behind changes and just want to skip to the end for something to get mad at, here's a whistle-stop tour behind what I'd change:
- NEW: Boons now have a global 60s cooldown upon being snuffed.
- NEW: Shattered Hope now does something without needing a Boon.
- NEW: Boons now have visual queues for the Killer.
- NEW: Boons now have a 28m radius.
- NEW: Blessing speed is increased by 20% when you already have an active Boon.
- NEW: Boon effects do not stack.
- NEW: Dark Theory now grants 5% Haste, and prevents obtaining Haste or Hindered by means other than Killer Powers while within its radius.
- NEW: Shadow Step now grants Elusive.
- NEW: Illumination now reveals map-wide, and increases action speed on revealed Props by 10%.
- NEW: Steadfast now grants permanent Generator Charges, at the cost of increasing Generator Regression Speeds (but not like that).
Let me know any thoughts, critiques, glaring holes I've missed which would make these perks abusable, etc. I'm interested in some wider feedback on this topic.
I wouldn't mind a boons buff but current shattered hope should be base kit then (with a completely unique rework) and your rework doesn't work as it's literally would be meta with pentimento cuz it's free 5 stacks on most killers, like you would still be able to boon a different totem and it's more fair with how powerful some of those boons are compared to hex perks (which are gone forever when cleansed).
Also I like your steadfast rework and this would be more like the perk people voted for BUT with stakeout it would be insanely overpowered, especially with hyperfocus which would also be paired and this will just make gen rushing problem worse, like I don't care if survivors gen rush but if I have no slowdown (or only 1 or 2 slowdown perks) then it's just impossible for me to win, games finish in less than 5 minutes with gen rushing and fear of this meta forces me to use full slowdown just to have a chance (even if there's only 2 gen rushers) while I would want to try a fun build with a chance of winning.
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Old ruin is definitely stronger than the current ruin so overall it's a nerf, needing to hit only great skill checks is insanely strong compared to auto regression at a higher rate.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104256#Comment_4104256
Yes it's usually a loss if the survivor in question knows what to do, but a decent number don't, and in addition it just feels awful. It's the same as, yes, if a Bubba just camps someone from first hook to death they're throwing the game, but it feels like crap and is an unhealthy play style, and often can still result in at least a 2k
I did actually try this play style and most of the time I did get a 2k so ig it should be addressed in some way, just making so you can start chase when in ambush.
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Try moving the camera slowly up on the survivor until it works that helps me most of the time.
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They cheat because of their skill issue, a bot can loop better than a cheater with wall hacks and speed hacks, bhvr really needs a better anti-cheat system.
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If a pig is going after a person with a head trap then it's a guarantee lost as other survivors can just do gens, even with two head trap add-ons, probably the best thing that person can do is go to the furthest corner of the map so when they die the pig wastes a lot of time going after another survivor.
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It's so hard to use, requires lots of skill like with nurse being hard but even harder, nurse is by far the strongest killer in the game but has the lowest KR on average cuz of people being bad at her and same thing will be this killer and you can also learn the counterplay like it's harder to hit shots when the survivor is close to the killer.
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@YouShouldBeAshamed said:
So before a match recently, the killer messages me "Apologies in advance." Using one perk as the nurse proceeds to 4k with one generator completed, mind you, they tunneled everyone out. I play with a very skilled SWF. This person then messages my friend and asked "Did you like my meta build?"
I don't know of any other community that is so egotistical and claims the game is survivor sided but takes the time to message in advance to offer their apologies because they know this game is broken and killers don't even need perks to have a chance at being successful at smothering a team at the onset of the match when odds are stacked in their favor.
We had one perk that seemingly balanced a part of the game where it needed it most and after everyone used their resources to acquire the newest survivor, the perk is nerfed within days. I'm just venting frustrations and I am fully aware that it will hardly improve at this rate. This was unsavory and made a few people not so happy campers (including myself.) Cross Examination needs to be as it was on release.
I am not asking to survive every match. But is there nothing the devs can do to bring back the excitement and thrill this game once had? The game was peak around 2018 and slowly but surely, our tools got nerfed one by one. They took away our ability as a team to make decisions that significantly affect the outcome of matches. From removing the old sabotage mechanics, nerfing dead hard, decisive strike, and many more perks, changing our movement so there is no more skill expression when trying to dodge attacks, the list goes on.
I have played both sides of the field, with and without perks. It is so easy to snowball a team. There has to be something that can be done to bring a sense of balance to the gameplay loop while keeping the core intact.
I'd suggest increasing the time to repair generators. Two minutes to repair a generator while alone and at maximum 90 seconds if there are two or more people repairing the same generator. Gen rushing isn't an issue with as many regression perks as there are in the game. Survivor generator perks all have a counterpart killers can and do employ to slow the match down further.
Change how bloodlust works so that it's affect is felt and comes as a reward of some action performed by the pursuer like landing a strike and not just for committing to a loop. Reduce all killers base speed by .3 m/s but allow that speed to be gained back through a bloodlust system that after a successful strike killers can gain a maximum of .6m/s haste over the next six seconds. This would allow killers to maintain chase but not instantly down a survivor. Make it so that line of sight has an impact timer so that while you have eyes on a target your momentum builds over time but losing sight regresses that momentum by .1m/s until movement speed returns back to normal or line of sight is regained with a maximum of .3m/s. This would generally keep killer speeds around the same benchmark but would allow for fluctuations that would alter the outcome of chases forcing killers to make more on the fly decisions whether to commit or not.
Since high mobility killers have been added to the game, bloodlust should affect them differently. Some killers don't even need bloodlust to maintain chase. There needs to be some checks and balances in place for killers that can teleport, full sprint, and burst attack. Balances can be made through offerings and add-ons to circumvent movement reductions. This would allow for more unique builds and choices to be made versus relying on current mechanics that have no penalty to the killer.
Revert hooks to something like how they were that when a survivor dies on said hook (excluding the basement hooks) that hook no longer respawns after 2 survivors have died on the same hook. At minimum increase the respawn time significantly so that survivors can't all be hooked over and over on the same hook. Change hook offerings that space hooks out (which they rarely have any effect) to break the hook for a period of time after a survivor is unhooked. The killer offering can reduce that time. The current movement speed while carrying a survivor makes perks like iron grasp nearly irrelevant and hook offerings irrelevant in the current state of the game.
Reward survivors for completing tasks. Survivors who repair one generator for 30 seconds or more should gain a bonus to movement, healing, sabotaging, blessing and cleansing somewhere in the ballpark of 3 percent. This affect would remain in place until that survivor becomes injured or downed, or the last generator has been completed. This would encourage players to focus on important actions rather than doing nothing or playing with a level of altruism to the detriment of the team.
Make bots good again. Bots at one point were absolute savages playing at a level of competitiveness rarely seen in the game. Do something to at least make them behave less like a player with only 15 minutes of playtime. They don't have to be looping demigods, but they should be more task oriented so they make up for the lack of a sentient player and not just run back and forth in and out of the killer's terror radius.
Punish proxy camping. Hook camping should be a strategy for earning extra downs but not for taking the game hostage. If the hooked survivor can see the killer, their meter should still go up. If the hooked survivor is in the killer's terror radius and a survivor is nearby, their meter should still go up. When a survivor is nearby whether on their feet or downed and the meter stops, this gives the killer even more empowerment to camp and it is a tell that someone is near the hook. End game hook camping is diabolical and at the least survivors should be given a basekit chance to jump off the hook if they haven't reached the third hook stage with a higher success rate than is typical of running the perk or add-on for hook escape attempts.
The advantage should go to the survivor in 50/50s on pallet drops and vaults. Currently survivors are getting dunked on in every window and every pallet. There are times when pre dropping a pallet suriviors are still getting injured through the pallet. Whatever change was made to pallet throws being disabled if the killer has started the act of a melee attack, that needs to go.
Same with the hooking action. Killers can start the hooking process far in advance of being near the hook. They should have to be directly facing the hook from the front to start the hooking action. 50/50 should go to the saboteur and the wiggling carried survivor. The hooking action cancelling an active sabotage action is worse than being interrupted because of Scene Partner. Now that I mention it does that perk really need the exaggerated animation that interrupts all other activities? Can't it just induce a scream without stopping a hook save, flashlight save, cleansing or blessing, or sabotaging?
I'll stop here and respond in the comments if I think of anything I may have missed.
You lost to one good nurse player, like there's still counter to nurse so no offence but idk if I can believe your SFW "very skilled", maybe not against nurse at least also if you don't like tunneling so much then use shoulder the burden in your SWF, it's so strong against tunneling.
Nurse is by far the strongest killer in the game and for many other killers it's a much different situation from her, you are not winning perk less on someone like nemesis against a good SWF cuz of the lack of mobility he has as an example, if this won't convince you that killers do need perks to stand a chance then tell me how would you win on perk less hag.
Survivors got many buffs so they arguably strongest they have ever been, like there's has never been that many pallets on the maps (cuz of pallet density update) and if you pre-drop every pallet many killers are unable to do much against them and also base kit BT getting buffed to 15 seconds and also buffed later to have elusive (instead of the 5 seconds), elusive is a broken status effect (can do everything other perks do like iron will but with one status effect).
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@random1543 said:
Ghoul could not fundementially work in 2v8.
since its a lock on hit, you could go around the map insta downing everyone. ghoul locks on, does his scream animation, they go into deep wound and other killer just slaps the survivor.Wesker is in 2v8 and he works fine
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This is just not needed, if you want to make something better about your match then sacrifice the BP.
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@Mooks said:
i guess it’s a combination of his dash being a good ability for speed/catching up/traversing the map and his unique 3rd person view and small model that can be utilized for better mind games where other Killers would be easier to predict
His dash is mid actually, Chucky is power creeped by many other dash killers, also the wolf form on Dracula is literally Chucky, a bit worse but at the same time better and it's 4.6 as well as getting occasional speed orbs and that combines.
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I would love a game mode like this, more build possibilities like a haste build or anti-heal build (diminishing returns should be deactivated for this mode, it's just for fun).
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103554#Comment_4103554
You should probably know what the game considers a "safe unhook" if you are going to claim its bugged. It just means that the unhooked survivor doesn't enter the dying state for 15 seconds after being unhooked. I have actually had my deli not activate because I unhooked a friend who wanted to use their plot twist and plot twisted before those 15 seconds had passed. You could argue that there should be more conditions on a safe unhook but not that it isn't working as intended.
I do know that and 10 seconds out of 15 are covered by endurance (the 15 seconds were fully covered with 15 seconds of endurance which is currently in the game but will get changed later), getting hit during the 10 seconds means getting a speed boost and by just holding W will probably guarantee survival for 15 seconds even against blight (some resource should be near).
Your plot twist example is just highly specific cuz of that one perk and would be a bad play by your teammate, like just heal for 16 seconds. Also, If the unhooked survivor wants to bodyblock (and killer waits the 10 seconds and downs them), then they are asking to get tunneled out, they could have used their elusive to get away (I know this change has not been implemented yet but still).
It's not a bug but really every unhook is basically safe unhook which is rarely otherwise and was caused by a bad play most of the time, so saying needing a safe unhook for deli is an issue is just fundamentally wrong, not getting hooked first is not that hard actually, killers use lethal rarely (I love this perk but it shouldn't be considered crazy strong or something that's used every match) cuz a slowdown is obviously better, like corrupt intervention shows the survivor location basically + first few gens at the start will take longer to be completed.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103530#Comment_4103530
Tunneling just bring DS, works great even if they're not tunneling. Plus tunneling is a strategy not a perk, and is countered by perks.
So the survivor needs to bring a perk to slow something base kit. Keep in mind that if survivors run something enmass people complain (DS has already been complained about many times and look at SB now) and how this doesn't stop tunneling, only delaying it by who knows how much. It doesn't counter it, especially on its own and, this is where i have a major problem with your comment:
works great even if they're not tunneling.
it does not work well if the killer does not tunnel.
Also, unhooking is required to not let your team die? So a perk tied to it gives you bonuses for doing a thing you are meant to do.
So do you know what the Deli problem (or part of it anyway) is? If you run deliverance you must get a safe unhook before you get hooked. This means that particular survivor needs to do their absolute damnest to not get found and hooked before someone else (lethal pursuer + luck = SoL…and thats one version), you need to get to that unhook without being seen/caught first which is the important bit as your likely going to have to race to that unhook to make sure no one else gets it before you do, otherwise you have to wait till someones hooked again to even try to activate it, all the while hoping your not next on the chopping block.
Fast track now has that similar problem if less extreme. If your chased and caught before you can unhook, no value till the next persons hooked. If someone else rescues before you do, no value till the next one. Your very likely to fight your team as a solo survivor over this.
And cross was a problem if you want; I can link video compilations of me escaping chases with it.
If i recorded i could show how it didn't save survivors despite using it. Just cause you or I get different results doesn't mean it needed hit immediately or not does it? Not real testing period means who knows if people would properly adapt.
Also look at Jason; his add-ons got gutted for no reason besides crying from survivors.
…Jason got a light tap all things considered. You apparently saw fog vials got actual gutted for no reason besides crying from killers. THAT would be an example of gutting.
So about deli, every single unhook counts as safe cuz it's currently broken, if you go into the basement while a killer camps it and unhook the survivor Infront of the killer, it will count as safe, I have seen many times when my first hook was in basement and then after that hooking the other person who was unhooker, when I went away they unhooked themselves and got the broken status effect, like every unhook is safe currently.
Also, cross examination was tested in the PTB and it was very obvious it's broken to many killers going away after going once around the loop as they thought the survivor left (there are plenty of loops with high walls where you can't see the survivor) or killers keep going around the loop when they thought the survivor was still there but they left with whole 5 seconds of elusive, elusive is a broken status effect and getting it permanently is broken (elusive literally does what 10 different perks do combined like iron will is one of them for example and with cross examination it was basically permanent) and it gave you the 5 seconds of elusive every time you got hit so with the speed you were able to hide from the killer, imo the perk should be fully reworked cuz it's a flawed design.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103521#Comment_4103521
Everything is potentially "abusable" in SWF. That's not really a reason to destroy everything. There are only so many high-performing 4mans out there. I'll never understand why it's called abusive when survivors optimize something but it's strategy when killers hard tunnel at 5 gens.
And it's really not a side grade even if that's what they called it. You used to just sit on a gen and get instantly rewarded for someone else getting hooked. You now have to get off your gen and perform an action to get the reward, which gives it the Deli problem of getting to the hook first to get value. I've seen almost no one run it since the rework. Even before the buff I did at least see it here and there. Now it's gone.
The fact that Cross Examination actually did something isn't a reason to nerf it. I didn't try it but I did play against it quite a bit and it was a non issue for me, even in indoor maps playing a 4.4.
Every time killer hits you with cross examination you just get elusive for 5 seconds + the speed from the injure and it's hard to track the survivor after that, I rely on listening to survivors a lot and that's one skillful part of killer like in chases listening to grunts of pain when there's tall walls so you can't see ethe survivor you can track them with sound while looping but cross examination just gave permanent elusive, the design is just flawed imo and it needs a full rework to be a good perk but not broken.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103364#Comment_4103364
The devs at some point made it that killers have priority on everything including stuns. So if the killer swings when they are stunned their swing will take priority over being stunned.
No, you just need to time the pallet stun, I have swinged out of the pallet stuns and sometimes the stun was timed well enough that I couldn't do anything about it.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103434#Comment_4103434
If he did have a ranged attack it would he’d probably have the blow torch from the dream sequence in part two either that or they can make this the first killer to have a actual gun
His ranged attack would probably be unique from any other current ranged attack (not like Jason having a different version of hunterss hatchets) and only as another addition to his kit, also Deathslinger has a gun.
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@Oputeev_Stas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103430#Comment_4103430
If they wanna nerf it to 2s then it should activate on E button like with Drama at least and not through shift button
So basically making drama a useless perk, that class in 2v8 with sprint burst is pretty busted.
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I feel like he will be a combination of a stealth killer and have a system similar to Liches spell casting, I haven't watched the movies personally BUT I am sure he will not be a dash/ranged killer (like maybe some ranged attack as part of his power).
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Getting a mori on each survivor when you didn't even use the mori offering, like on Myers or Jason.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103382#Comment_4103382
Looping was nearly impossible in Lights Out, since you couldn't see anything. Maybe if there was a loadout-less mode without all the darkness, then it can be considered a true skill-based mode.
Same as finding the survivors is also quite hard, that's why legion was a popular killer in lights out as his killer instinct is not removed (but he does need it for his power tho)
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103358#Comment_4103358
Not in Chaos Shuffle they don't, unless they get RNG-lucky.
I was talking about tunneling in normal queue
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Lights out was supposed to be a pure skilled game mode with no perks, items or add-ons but bhvr decided it's worth to add WoO to survivors and remove skill from survivors, it's easy to loop with WoO.
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@TheTWDFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103204#Comment_4103204
Then I don't really see the point of queuing for that game mode if it's such a miserable experience for you. That's what I was getting at with my original post. If there aren't any real incentives to play, why not just stick to the regular queues instead?
There's no point camping and hard tunnelling at five generators just because you're unhappy with your perks and add-ons. If you're not enjoying the mode, you'd probably have a better experience in the standard queue.
I'm going to give Chaos Shuffle another chance today, but if it's as miserable as it was yesterday, I won't be queuing for those lobbies either.
I haven't played it yet personally but that how I felt last time, trying different perks is the fun in it and I wanna try new perks cuz I need new fun builds but I can't think of any so getting a try of perks will help, I am just gonna forget about winning and try to get the perk value without tunneling and slugging.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103362#Comment_4103362
It is just the best Anti-Tunnel measurement which is available. But DS being the best Anti-Tunnel tool is the same as me saying that I am the best basketball player in my home. It is true, but meaningless.
Ds is not the best anti-tunnel tool actually, it's Shoulder the burden, a better anti-tunnel tool which can be combined with ds and it's a guarantee win if killer tunnels, if DS is "best Anti-tunnel tool" but killer can just tunnel through then I feel like it wouldn't be such a meta and something else would be used instead of it like off the record maybe, like DS is literally the reason it's easy to win against tunneling.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103278#Comment_4103278
Agreed, there need to be opportunities to save your teammates to make the game not completely hopeless for survivors. Pallet saves were already nerfed just recently and it took away part of the occasional opportunity to make a save. For me at least, I am rubbish at flashlights on controller.
The reason perks like Fire Up and Forever Entwined are Perks, and build up their strength with tokens/gens is that very small number changes make a huge difference to the gameplay. If the possibility of a clutch flashlight save is permanently removed, it just means the teammates don't bother trying to save and instead sit on the generator. Which then leads to even less interaction, less time for the killer to get a hold on the match etc, etc.
Also the basement is such an integral part of DbD, they could never remove it.
How pallet saves where nerfed? They were only buffed with pallet density update.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
The funny thing is that Killers who tunnel right now in Chaos Shuffle simply never realized that they should just tunnel through things like DS in the regular gamemode. Anti-Tunnel measurements are small inconveniences and nothing which will really impact much, if the Killer player is any good.
Killer Players tunneling in Chaos Shuffle because of the lack of Anti-Tunnel while being afraid of it in the regular mode is the opposite of smart play.
If ds was that bad that you can tunnel through it then it wouldn't be meta, it's meta for a reason, tho as a Henry main I love sniping the survivors after they use ds as they feel they are safe and just hold W with no thought of dodging and of killer being able to down them quickly (it's still hard to snipe them and takes skill, just so you don't start saying Henry is a brain-dead killer, he is countered by DH still).
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103354#Comment_4103354
Why do killers always equate tunneling with killing? No one is saying you can't kill. But there are plenty of ways to do it without tunneling.
After tunneling one survivor, that survivor is dead so killed. Tunneling is killing and survivors got lots of tools against it.
There are plenty ways to kill like camping, slugging and tunneling which is the most effective one.
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@Yamalive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103205#Comment_4103205
Its hilarious that people still try to defend it this way. You just unmasked yourself.
0 explanation why I am wrong, ok thanks. As I asked already, why can't killer kill as killer?
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103222#Comment_4103222
Doesn't really count as a meme addon if it works for his strongest perk interaction. And yeah free hit every hook stage is pretty strong especially if you have people injured, it's also very strong for tunneling and if survs stop doing gens to avoid the free hit it's easy pressure. Causes way too many early game snowballs.
Gonna have to agree to disagree, cause like I said, I'm firm on this one.
All people have their own opinions, if you don't like it don't use it, others find it fun and survivors don't get specifically wraith and with this combo every match so it's not really an issue.
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@DanielPaint1 said:
After the first hook stage got changed so you can no longer unalive yourself on hook the only thing the luck offerings and perks do is give people the option again to kill themselves on hook or for swf groups to absolutely abuse it.
But what if the mechanic was no longer useless and also worked for the Killer. Here is my little idea on how the mechanic could make the game more interesting.
Luck and Misfortune: Both sides get new offerings and perks (some old perks it as a extra effect). Luck is for the Survivor side and Misfortune for the Killer side. Since there are more 4 Survivors against 1 Killer it would be unfair to just give killer stuff that says"luck is decreased"
Items and Chests: Items you get out of Chests are now affected on the rarity the items have and on how many charges the items have. Items can have up 150% charges depending on the luck the survivor who brings into the match. On the other side Misfortune gives a certain chance that items inside the chest are "broken" with 0 charges making them useless.
Generators: Survivors who have high luck get sometimes bigger great skill checks. Misfortune results into the skill checks randomly appearing on other positions of the screen or suddenly being much faster then normally.
Pallets: Luck and Misfortune have the strongest affect on the pallets but also the lowest chance of these effects happening (Base chance like 1% and max chance like 5%) When a Survivor drops a pallet two things can happen. Either Luck is on the Survivors side and the pallet becomes unbreakable for 10 seconds or Misfortune is on the Killers side and the Pallet instantly breaks like a Apocalyptic Pallet. When Luck triggers while stunning a Killer with the Pallet the effect changes so the stun is twice as long and the Killer get's blinded. When Misfortune triggers while a killer is stunned the Pallet also instantly breaks but also the Stun is only half as long.
Hooks, Totems, Exit games, etc: Not affected by Luck or Misfortune.
Cool concept but I feel like making the game luck reliant is not the best idea, an event like this would actually be sick (with more luck reliant things with higher much chances and classes to replace perks or something), when bhvr adds that sandbox thing maybe try to do it or tell the idea to someone who will do the game mode.
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@not_Queef said:
Repressed Alliance - Allows survivors to unblock a gen once activated instead of blocking it.
Lightborn - Remove the full invulnerability to blinds, change it to a much faster recovery rate (like Enduring for flashlight blinds).
Smash Hit - Works on all stuns, so you can DS and zoom away.
Borrowed Time - Instead of extending the basekit BT, bring back the unhooker protection from old BT.
Gen Slowdowns - Add a global cooldown so you can't stack them any more.
Light born is a very weak perk which has only one purpose, I rather use slowdown instead of it so it shouldn't get changed and the smash hit one is too crazy imo.
Also the community manager asked WHY as well.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103075#Comment_4103075
I'm not going to be convinced on this ever, fully prepared to die on this hill. The tbtc interaction is very cheesy. It completely circumvents the whole limitation of his power.
If tbtc wasn't so fast to trigger then I probably wouldn't mind too much. But it doesn't slow him during the prompt. I used this combo once in a game just to see how bad it could be. And i absolutely slammed a 4 man coordinated swf with it, minimal effort.
Like while tbtc is active, which is a fair time, you can literally cloak mid chase, get right on top of the surv and then use a gen in LoS to uncloak instantly with no slow down. The distance it can be used at allows free hits way too easily, it an be triggered far enough that survs can't hear your breathing.
I'm fully convinced the devs looked at it, and decided that trying to fix the code was too much hassle and just said "meh, lets just say it was intentional"
They did take a look at it and cuz people liked it they kept it, it's just not that broken as you get only one free hit per hook stage and sometimes you might not even get it and again you need to use a meme add-on.
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@Yamalive said:
Killer players just dont udnerstand thats this is a fun mode and are trying dead seriously to compensate for whatever lack of skill they have.
Survivors don't understand this is a fun mode either, t-bagging every match when you lost even when you were playing nicely, also there's nothing wrong with killing as killer (tunneling, tell me why killer can't kill) and survivors surviving (gen rushing), like trying to win using any means necessary shouldn't be forbidden.
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@TheTWDFan said:
This is my first time experiencing the Chaos Shuffle modifier, and I expected it to be a fun kind of chaos. Not knowing which perks you'd get seemed like it could lead to some interesting combinations, and wondering whether they'd synergise well, like Inner Strength and Small Game, or completely work against each other, like No Mither and Self-Care.
Instead, it's been a pretty miserable experience.
I don't know if I just had an unusually bad run of matches before I went to make something to eat, but almost every game was filled with proxy camping and hard tunnelling. I assume that's because it's much less likely that survivors will randomly get an anti-tunnel perk.
Unless it's changed since I last played, there also wasn't a Bloodpoint bonus for playing survivor. So what's the incentive to play this modifier? Am I missing something, or is it genuinely just not a very good game mode?
Killers tunnel and camp cuz chaos shuffle is miserable for them as well, having no slowdown and a chance of getting a meme add-on which nerfs the killer power is not very fun
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103174#Comment_4103174
If you stomp a boon with shattered hope, can you then light it up with penti?
Idk, tho i don't think it should
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@ThatRyanB said:
I'm glad to hear you're excited for the upcoming perk changes! And thank you for kicking up this thread :) I'll keep an eye on it to pass feedback on to the team!
For those of you responding, I'd love to know one thing especially about perks you'd love to see changed: WHY would you like to see the perk changed? It's one thing to voice the result you'd ultimately like to see, but it's especially helpful to understand why a perk is causing friction for you.
Rework Hyperfocus, it's supposed to be a skilled perk but with stakeout the value from Hyperfocus is basically free and Hyperfocus is not affected by diminishing returns, this perk combo is very strong for gen rushing and matches could finish in less than 5 minutes even with full slowdown, it's really hard to win against a full team with those two perks without tunneling (those 2 are really the only problematic gen speed perks), a normal match should last at least 10 minutes.
I would have said Stakeout but Hyperfocus by itself is often only used by subtle cheaters and if Hyperfocus remains the same perk without stakeout it would make it harder to identify and report cheaters.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103086#Comment_4103086
Lobby dodging and shopping around is indeed a problem. As players wait the current system widens it's range until it simply grabs the next available person, especially during off-peak hours. It's this backfilling problem that leads to the gross mismatches so often complained about, and rightly so.
Also those on Xbox cannot even use their Anonymous Mode.
You can't check the Xbox profile, it's just steam where you can check the survivor profiles (you might be able to check Xbox account of another Xbox user but idk). I don't see an issue with dodging and that's just my opinion, if bhvr does something about i wouldn't care.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103103#Comment_4103103
The moment survivor comes to effect with hex I believe its visualised maybe like ghouls isnt but Idk truth is these hexes are so phateroc that no one runs them so thats why only few know this but I think all are visualised by mark on your screen.
This could be done with boon once you come to its range becaise that load noise doesnt tell you much only that someone set a boon perk active but you only know itnwhen you have good ears and come to the totem.
Fact is boons arent so op so they dont need too but if it showed like hex it would be good.
Imo shattered hope should be base kit like no one uses them but it's kinda needed and get a rework to the perk itself but all boons buffed as compensation
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@Gozuthelivingdead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103099#Comment_4103099
Why could it not not be visualized just like a hex? Would that make it more accessible for all players?
Idk, tho I am pretty sure not all hexes are visualised for the survivor, like adding the boon indication like with most hexes wouldn't change anything for normal matches but improve it for some people.
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When the boon is activated you can hear a loud sound notification map wide but you don't know where, tho probably the issue again for players with hearing problems.
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@wesker_shades said:
Iron Will, Self-Preservation, Blast Mine and Botany Knowledge. These 4 perks better stay as they are, or improved.
What's so niche about iron will and botany knowledge, one is just perk to make it harder for killer to hear you and the other is just healing speed, also self-preservation encourages tunneling like if killer has barbecue and chilli even without it it's hard to find you after hooking so it's just better to tunnel the hooked survivor when they are unhooked if you don't know where are other survivors and ratting is actually boring like the only fun aspect of survivor is looping the killer (you can't tell me doing gens is fun).
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@MrMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4103086#Comment_4103086
When someone dodges a lobby, the matchmaker disregards similar MMR in favor of speed to fill the slot, so the more players leave and join a lobby, the less accurate the matchmaking of that lobby becomes. Not only that but at higher levels of play, it's not uncommon for weird sweaty players to constantly dodge and join lobbies, shopping for a "strong" team, or unconfident killers dodging lobbies because they "look" intimidating, without having the faintest clue about the actual skill level of the opponents. So if you show up playing an "off meta" character or look "casual", even if you're anon mode, you'll get dodged over and over, regardless of skill level which is technically impossible for these dodgers to gauge unless they can see your hours anyway.
The actual problem is the entire pregame lobby being there in the first place, which is what enables lobby dodging. To me, the pregame lobby is an extremely outdated feature that serves no purpose other than to slow down how long it takes to get into a match, urge players into dodging for whatever arbitrary reason they can make up, and reduce matchmaking quality, and I'd like to see it removed completely.
it allows to change the builds for both sides if they didn't do it before that and also it allows for the server to have full lobby, sometimes I have survivors just leave during the loading so the whole match is cancelled and I need to wait the queue times again (actually so annoying, takes longer than a minute or waiting for another survivor to get into the lobby), but if there's no lobby then if survivor really needs to leave for a good reason then the whole match is cooked same thing with killer, like not everyone is just dodging and again sometimes if I maybe try a new build I change something right before the match.
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@MrMori said:
That would be good and I do agree a reset should happen. But my biggest frustration with hearing about MMR changes is that if they keep the top 20% of players in a giant pool of "top mmr" and wildly throw people into lobbies to backfill people lobby dodging, nothing will actually improve. As long as lobbies stay, MMR is meaningless due to backfill on top of the extremely loose matchmaking pool. Which to an extent I get because there's only so many players in each MMR bracket per region at any given time, but lobbies just make this issue ten times worse. I don't think BHVR are able to recognize how much easier it would be to make a good matchmaking algorithm if we removed the pregame lobby. Then, they could actually guarantee that the 5 players they put together for a good match actually play the match instead of lobby dodging and everything falling apart.
I hope at the very least that like every other team based game with MMR, the MMR you gain or lose becomes dependent on how well the survivor team does as a whole, not how players do individually. It sounds bad on paper, but when you think about it, all that would change is that selfish players that don't play to get the most players out would lose MMR, and strong players that are willing to play for their team and get everyone out, sacrifice themselves for others to get more escapes in the endgame would end up higher MMR, as long as they were a net positive on the match.
How is lobby dodging is a problem? Most of the time if someone leaves it takes 5-10 seconds to refill the spot and I assume you are talking about people checking the profiles but for that just use anonymous mode
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Fnaf and that's all
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102703#Comment_4102703
I enjoy a challenge. Not everything has to be easy mode. I dont have to win in the easiest way possible and thats good. I liked Sadako 1.0 for exactly that reason. I didnt use iri tape or ring drawing. Neither did I slug. I still got my condemned moris. In fact, I got so good at it, that I was rank 4 on the global leaderboard back then.
Was it hard? Yes. Did I want it to be any different backk then? Not in regard to it being challenging.
If people want easy mode, then they can do that by playing Nurse, Ghoul or Vecna 2.0. Not everything has to be an overtuned nightmare.
As a Henry main, Henry is not easy. It's quite easy to dodge his vines if you pay attention (can be hard with ping) and survivors in high MMR I play against are able to dodge him fine. His counterplay is easy if spend time learning it.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Having played a few games with him again I understand why wraiths have a reputation for tunneling. He's immensley reliant on his addons and he doesn't work very well as a stealth killer unless you run coxcomb clapper, or that broken af turn back the clock interaction, which I refuse to use.
Without that iri addon he suffers very badly to prerunning when he tries to uncloak, against survs who are aware enough to see him while cloaked and can run a decent chase he really stuggles. His only good skill expression is bodyblocking pallets for an uncloak and hit.
His base power is just very ineffective and powercrept in today's dbd. He could do with maybe being harder to detect while cloaked and make bone clapper basekit just to make it a little more difficult to prerun him and give him a little passive map pressure.
Turn back the clock interaction is not that broken, he just gets one free hit and that's only if survivors are not using SB and for that free hit you need to hook a survivor and if survivors pay enough attention then they can pre-run and get to a resource before this happens, it's just not that broken, also serpent is literally a meme add-on and nerfs you in chase if you want to break a pallet while cloaked and using the breaking speed add-on.
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I totally agree with this but it would be chaos at the start and the wipe would need to give different people different MMR cuz it wouldn't be great if a brand new Dwight is queued with a sweaty blight or a brand new Trapper queued with comp SWF.
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I assume you are talking about trying to safe a hooked survivor the killer camps, I don't think you would be able to coordinate with a bot. The real issue is that people DC when they face any inconvenience (entitled basically) so that's the problem that should be solved like making it more punishing cuz it ruins the game for all players in that match. But you can still play in SWF where your friends shouldn't really DC, if you don't have friends who play dbd go on the official discord server and use the looking for group channel.
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@PyramidFootLicker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102882#Comment_4102882
Lethal gives a net buff to all aura reading for doing nothing but okay
So getting 2 more seconds of aura on another perk/add-on is better than slowdown? Getting more info is just not better than a slowdown perk, you can use corrupt intervention on killer to know roughly the survivors starting location and a slowdown. Survivors also have a perk that gives more aura for nothing and also vigil gives an insane buff for existing to multiple survivors actually in radius, for nothing.