Chaos shuffle is showing the true skill on both sides.
Forcing people out of their comfort zone is truly testing the skill on both sides. Its beautiful. Also on both sides has introduced me to perks ive never used before that I might use afterwards. Not as bad as I thought they are. Like as a survivor with aura reading perks and killers with hex perks. What do you all think of the event?
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Not entirely the point of your thread, but this is why I wonder what ‘status quo DbD’ looks like these days.
What does a regular match of DbD look like, without any perks or add-ons?
How likely is a killer to tunnel? How likely is survivors slamming out gens?
It's always been a good way to highlight how reliant some people have become on certain perks or add-ons. I've always enjoyed this mode, personally, on both sides.
Lights out was supposed to be a pure skilled game mode with no perks, items or add-ons but bhvr decided it's worth to add WoO to survivors and remove skill from survivors, it's easy to loop with WoO.
Looping was nearly impossible in Lights Out, since you couldn't see anything. Maybe if there was a loadout-less mode without all the darkness, then it can be considered a true skill-based mode.
It's also like an exam seeing how well you know the perks of DBD. So many perks now I always get 1-2 perks I don't really know what they do and can't benifit from them lol
Same as finding the survivors is also quite hard, that's why legion was a popular killer in lights out as his killer instinct is not removed (but he does need it for his power tho)
I wouldnt say getting a meme addon like counterweight (your chainsaw can now never curve) shows the true skill of a killer like billy lol. Curving IS the skill you learn. Same if your sadako and get the addon that literally removes condemned entirely. For most normal cases yeah perk and addon wise its fine. I wish theyd bring back the exclusion list with just full meme addons not weak ones and the meme addons.
Nah these killers are huge risk you risk whole match only because you got one addon its worse then survivor getting no mither because killer needs to go 1v4 and your power being trash isnt helping that.
Billy,bubba both are unuseable there because of just one or two addons that totaly screws your whole power. Personaly I would rather play these killers addonless then with meme addons that make you loose becuase they remowe key aspects of these killer powers and kill them like instadown on both chansaw killers or like scratch mirror on myers is nowdays very unreliable due to its heavy dependency on map and other addon that makes him 4,4 m/s (110% speed) because without it he is 4,2 m/s and sucks even more not to mention heavy dependeny on perks too for such meme builds to work even somehow like unless you face the new players or total potatoes these addons wont work.
There isnt majority of killers as option because many of them have addons that make their power trash and many people dont even know they exist because no one newer runs them.
Lots of Killers have basekit tracking abilities (Doctor with his Static Shock, Nemesis with his zombies, and many other Killers have Killer Instinct abilities too). Survivors had nothing to help them track windows or pallets until now.
I love the mode, but this time it has been rough on me so far.
Those were also the handful of killers that people complained were ruining the mode. Now you have EVERY survivor with tracking while 90% of the killer roster still doesnt.
Yeah they should give you minute after load in time to actually read your perks. I don't really have time to read some of them until I'm on hook. Or if I'm killer, I really don't have time to read them at all. I either know or I don't.
The "skill" I was shown on my few survivor matches was hard tunneling A and S tier killers that knew no one would have any perks to protect them. If it shows anything it's that perks are the only thing stopping killers from going full cheese.
The only skill killers show is how well they tunnel out the first survivor. And then cry a river if it doesnt work well enough, cause theyre bad players. 9 out of 10 games are utterly pathetic gameplay.
Out of interest, what feels different for you this time around?
The killers bringing Ebony Mori to tunnel someone out as fast as possible… like we already don't have DS or quite literally an anti-tunnel… I guess i'll try my best to last with Lithe, Sprint Burst, Small Game and Visionary (real build i got)…😭
Getting counterweight and not being able to use my power at all is different from no mither. Sadako with her meme addon literally removing condemned as a mechanic as well. We really need the addon exclusion back only for the very meme addons. Weak ones are fine. But literally designed detrimental addons are not fun.
So just play the newer killers with addons that are always good in most cases. More ghouls and jasons anyone?
Survivors should have better anti-tunnel in this mode because they can't bring perks to help and killers should either be able to choose add-ons, only have certain (non-meme) ones available, or they just shouldn't have them.
Getting an add-on that might completely change my killer is keeping me form playing it as killer and the cheese is keeping me from playing it as survivor.
exclude meme addons please. We don’t need any other adjustments. The modes fine for both sides otherwise.
The mode is fine no need to change it. Thanks for bringing it back to real randomness.
yeah it highlights how terrible most of the perks in the game are
The thing is: the fact that you can't see anything is the entire point of Lights Out and what made it so skillful. Your core DBD skills needed to be on point cuz the Killer can come from anywhere at any moment, and your map knowledge had to be on point so you could memorize all the pallet/vault spawns.
By slapping WoO onto the mode's Lantern item (which you spawn with btw), you are doing something that is directly anathema to the mode's entire appeal: lack of information. You can not only see all your objectives, but now you can see where your teammates are since you'll see the pallets being thrown. Not having information is what makes horror games so immersive, and there is nothing that ruins immersion more than having wallhacks on things. If survivors can have free WoO, then it's only fair that Killers should get free Zanshin Tactics to even the playing field.
And honestly, slapping WoO in this mode isn't even the worst part. That goes to the fact that they chose to do this post Pallet Density.
Should be obvious but certain killer add ons need to stay banned in Chaos Shuffle getting a 1 out of 145 chance to get No Mither is one thing survivors can still play if they are unfortunate to get that perk but some killers get a 1 or 2 chances out of 24 that their power becomes unusable.
Lights Out mode needs something similar since killers should be banned in that mode. Meyers Ghost Face and Legion are basically playing with hacks when the point of the game mode is to be stripped of all information.
Lights out is a party mode, intentionally unbalanced. It's a horror simulator. I wish it was available all the time.
lights out tests the skill for both sides rather than chaos shuffle since both sides get nothing
yeah about that comfort zone, im still being tunneled…
Sure, it's lack of information, but even in Lights Out, there was still a little something to help you along. Such as you can still see Survivor auras when they're downed or hooked. Even the gens started with 5% progress to help Survivors locate them with the noise.
And on the Killer side, they can still see the auras of gens at all times.
These pieces of information are necessary, which is why they're there.
There is a fine line between a necessity and a luxury.
Knowing where your objectives (and for survivors, their endangered teammates) is a necessity.
Knowing the location of every vault and pallet within a 2-mile radius is a luxury.
EDIT: Wow, 4 downvotes just for using basic logic. I guess average IQ is also a luxury.
The issue with that one is too many ad ons are excluded, ad ons such as padded jaws and iri tape I do think should be disabled but most on the ad ons on that list don't need to be excluded.
Eg ghoul does not need 8 ad ons disabled.
I just wish I could at least choose my addons. If people want it to be randomized then neat. That's fine. I'd like the option though.
The game mode made me realize how many people don't know what 60% of the perks in the game do. In that sense it's given me a slight advantage compared to regular DBD since I've memorized all the perks.
I wouldn't say it's a pure test of skill though since if say the survivor gets no mither with self-care and the killer gets something like say pop overcharge I mean that's just a hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby situation. Game mode is a fun knowledge check and chance to use perks most people don't consider usually but that's about it.
I feel like in the previous iterations it had been way more silly, different than normal mode. Now i've felt several points that kinda felt off:
i've got the perk "Hubris" three matches in a row, probably just unlucky but felt weird. Especially because i got it two times in a row again after one match of different perks. Just a tad bit too often.
Also i've noticed that killers as well as survivors lost the fun in the mode mostly, resulting in very sweaty matches as well as coordinated item choices by survivor groups and high tier killers mostly.
I'm pretty sure it's only unlucky on my part but it made me think, that the killer you are playing should be randomized too. In turn the survivor items also should be completely random.
To offset more people not knowing their killers, addons and powers, a 15-30 second window at the start could be established to let people inspect their loadout on both sides.
I think more randomness equals more fun and matches the spirit of the mode.
Hard tunneling someone and winning 3v1 isn't really skillful, is it?
If you compare it to Dredge's nightfall it truly isn't about skill to get into a loop. The RNG is different, you can't see any loop neither hear the killer. Lights out been always pretty killer sided mode and I think that adding woo won't be that bad because you will be in advatage of killers with dashes, antiloops etc. while survivors won't have anything, no haste perks, no second chance perks, ne gen perks. Lights out even with WOO will still be probably the most killer sided mode and it's fine.
It's been rough on me so far but i generally love it. It doesn't really reflect skill on the killer side, because S-tiers like billy or nurse can shred through most teams even with mediocre effort. The lack of designated anti-tunnel makes it hard for survivors to combat that. In turn weaker killers like pig or pinhead struggle due to the lack of slowdown.
That's why: make everything random. Survivor, Killer, Perks, Addons, Offerings, Skins. Boom.
Conflicted myself if this is really alright to give survivors WoO in Light's Out mode. Whole point of the game mode is to be stripped of all information other than being able to see the most important objectives killers see gens and survivors being able to see slugged and hooked teammates. Suppose to be playing in the dark but the candles just lights everything up. SMH
On Survivor side, I basically ignore the Perks if I don't recognize them. I don't recognize them for a reason, (they are trash).
You can skim the perks during the start panning animation by just pressing tab rightaway. Then when the animation ends play normally until you get to the first hook and then use that time to check those more through out that you need to. Eventually you will start learning them and know at least the basic of how some of them work. People worry too much of knowing what the perk does totally when in reality its just better to play and find out while playing.
It's like 90% ghouls and more people are tunneling, really shows why there should be basekit anti tunnel features.
It's not much different from main game expect you have to play with perks you probably don't want to. Last time I played most killers just tunneled first survivor knowing there is not ds.