cogsturning
cogsturning
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It's never anyone's own fault when they lose.
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@Massquwatt said:
SB's popularity is still going to remain, what they're shaving off in distance they're giving back in giving it an activation key apparently which makes saving it and using it demand a hell of a lot more better. I honestly don't see people giving it up even after the nerfs.
Why would anyone run Dramaturgy ever again if this was true? They'd be almost the same but without Drama's risk.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102958#Comment_4102958
Yes of course, it's all user-submitted data.
But if you can just override what's in the screenshot what's even the point of the screenshot? Why isn't there just a box where I can write "match 1: they all escaped trust me"? How can anything be this horribly inaccurate and even be known of, not to mention popular and commonly cited? I'm totally baffled by this. I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was this bad.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102953#Comment_4102953
You can click on the death/escape type icon to change it. Even includes options for Hatch and whether you gave it to them or not.
Ah OK I see. The display was putting it on top of the globes for me. But doesn't that mean I could just change the status of a dead person to alive and warp the stats?
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102940#Comment_4102940
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2XVCQT5EJV34/abandon-bot-icon-leaderboard.jpg
This is from a while back but this is what it looks like if you Abandon. When the remaining players finish the match (including your bot), the icon doesn't change.
Ah, that's an unfortunate hole in my knowledge. Now I know. Unfortunate for accuracy too. So the personal survivor stats and Nightlight stats are equally inaccurate (depending on who uploads). Everyday I learn a new way Nightlight is inaccurate.
I've actually been playing around wirh thier page today. I don't know if most people even know how it works (I didn't). The match upload looks like this:
For some reason you can identify globes and bots for it manually even though it should be able to see it itself. It also doesn't indicate the fact there was a bot matters to anything so I'm not sure what that's for. They should at least allow a manual option to change an escaped bot to a death if that's incorrect but I don't see one. This page is truly pointless.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102926#Comment_4102926
Is that right? Because if you Abandon as a survivor (for example, slugged 3 times), the leaderboard tally screen shows an Escaped icon on that survivor's end at least (visual bug). Only if the person submitting to NightLight spends the time to correct it manually from Escaped to the actual outcome, will it show correctly in their stats. Unless they had friends on the team, that survivor will never know if their bot escaped or not.
Does it? I don't ever abandon so I don't know how it looks to the abandoner, but they show as kills for me as killer or if I'm another survivor. They show as escapes on the stat page though, for everyone, even though they still count as kills for the killer.
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Upvoting just for title to post transition.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102874#Comment_4102874
One of my favourite stealth builds of recent times is the SB + Vigil + Lightweight + Ghost Notes one, because it lets you zoom about the map without leaving a trace. Funny thing is, the nerfs to SB and Vigil don't even affect this build at all. Lightweight + Ghostnotes is good to combo with any exhaustion perk, tbh. I'm kinda surprised it's survived for as long as it has because as soon as I saw a certain content creator / player consultant had the same idea that I did, I worried the days were numbered for this perk combo. That said, it's not very common so it might continue to fly under the radar for a little longer.
I don't worry too much unless there's a noisy and sustained string of complaints about something. After all, it's taken BHVR 9 years to nerf SB but it was only really in the last 6 months or so that the complaining actually became loud enough for BHVR to feel like they had do something about it. They might claim to be data lead when it comes to nerfing things, but I definitely feel like they listen to the nosiest player feedback above all else.
I see that build occasionally, though I think Ghost Notes and Lightweight are diminished together.
I'm kinda unhappy that I was part of that complaining. I didn't think it would be nerfed in a vacuum. I wasn't spurred on by anything but my own experiences on killer but I do wonder what caused all the recent complaints, especially with every new killer coming out as A tier and often overtuned. SB is really only an issue for me on Henry. On everyone else I'm fine with it.
But that's what constantly concerns me. All it takes is the right CC locking their gaze onto something and it's days are numbered. It's been particularly bad this last year.
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102860#Comment_4102860
This just shows how unreliable all the stat trackers are and how their data makes no sense even internally. You have 15 iri Devout emblems out of 16 matches. Iri Devout is 4 kills. There is no other way to reach it (2 points per kill, 1 for hooking all once, 1 for 9 hooks in total). That's 60 kills. Nightlight claims you only had 41. Even if the final match was 0k, which seems unlikely because you had iri in every other category, it's still undercounting kills by at least 19 out 64 possible total.
It's miscounting DCs/abandons as escapes. Its data doesn't even make sense internally, and should not be used for literally anything.
This image is from the official stat page and the kill rates on their have always been accurate for me. I obsess over it. I check it multiple times a day. I check it between matches in the lobby. I even made a post about my testing it awhile back:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/460944/stat-page-accuracy-test#latest
The other stuff like emblems or pallet breaks or whatever idk. KRs and ERs are all I care about, and I've never had an issue.
And I sure don't want to defend Nightlight but they pull from screenshots of the leaderboards, which shows abandons/DCs as deaths (assuming the bot died).
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@Memesis said:
For the record, I only ever wanted vigil nerfed. Sprint burst on its own was untouched for like 10 years for a reason. It only became a problem recently, maybe in part to people playing 2v8 wanting the extremely strong escapist class in 1v4 and saw that pairing sb with vigil gave you exactly that.
I wanted a Vigil change as well. I wouldn't have minded a SB activation condition as a change, but this isn't what I wanted to see.
@tjt85 said:
It's gonna hurt to see this one go onto the scrap heap. Especially so for me, since I don't really like any of the other exhaustion perks. Ironically, I only switched over to SB when MFT got nerfed into the ground. So whatever perks Survivors move on to after this will get nerfed before very long, I'm sure of it.
Besides Head On for my locker Dwight build, I might just give up on them all together and lean more heavily into stealth builds. It might still find a place in my anti-tunnel build, which has become a bit of a museum of eviscerated Survivor perks these days (Made for This + Off The Record + Sprint Burst + Wicked), but I can't see myself ever running it alone.
I'm not going to pretend it wasn't one of the best Survivor perks (it was), but it did come with a pretty big downside in the fact that you couldn't save it for the ideal moment (not unless you wanted to walk around the map all game, which would only be good for the Killer).
Now that it will be one of the weaker exhaustion perks, I think there's a solid argument to make it activate with a button press. But I'm pretty sure Killers that hate SB would riot if BHVR did such a thing, so I don't expect that to happen.
Stealth is what I currently use and it goes very well for me. I live in fear those perks will get nerfed too.
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@Leshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102540#Comment_4102540
What if they give elusive to the unhooker as well?
They won't. Killers will complain that they can't find anybody when when they zoom back to the hook the moment they hear the notification. I'd rather them delay the unhook notification by a few seconds and keep the BT at 15s without Elusive.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one not seeing these guys. The last time I saw Ghoul was over 10 matches ago and the last I saw Jason was over 20, like my most recent matches have been
Clown, Wraith, Legion, Legion, Artist, Hillbilly, Pyramid Head, Clown, Plague, Freddy, Wesker, Oni, Ghoul, Doctor, Bubba, Blight, Hillbilly, Wraith, ST Vecna, Wesker, Bubba, Wesker, Jason, Krasue, Huntress
That's what? 18 different killers in my last 30 matches? (Obviously not including my killer rounds) and only 1 Ghoul and 1 Jason in all of it? I know it's because I don't always take this game seriously so I probably am not the highest mmr on the planet, but it's just wild how much more variety I get compared to others. (I will be real though even for me I didn't realize how much variety I've had recently like wow)
Now that I've said it I'm about to enter Ghoul/Jason hell.
It's not just you. It's the same for me. I always have a lot of variety when there isn't a new killer being overplayed. My last killers according to my stats were Singularity, Pig, Clown, Jason, Pyramidhead, Henry, Jason, Unknown, Unknown, Ghoul, Dracula, Springtrap, Dracula, Sadako, Trapper, Wraith, Plague, Jason, Chucky, Knight, Oni, Micheal, Skull Merchant, Plague, Unknown, and Spirit. So just as many Unknowns as Jasons. I don't really think MMR has that much to do with it. My escape rate is usually around 60% for the month so I know I'm not at the bottom.
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@Domicci said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102674#Comment_4102674
Time doesnt equal skill. And im sorry I actually look into games and study patch notes to see what's changes from when I last payed back on 2020 and there is a pattern of the devs not understanding data as well calling pallet density a "quality of life" change wheb its objectively a buff to survivors and a nerf to killers. I also dont care what some no body on the forms says about be they dont know me so it doesnt matter what they say.
But time does equal knowledge through experience, not knowledge through reading Reddit opinons or watching CCS and absorbing other people's opinons so you can regurgitate their views without any personal understanding of what you're talking about.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102678#Comment_4102678
I'd think pwyw should theoretically make killer queues shorter since more people would be active on survivor instead of clogging up the line doing nothing.Theoretically it could, but it depends on how people behave on whether it makes it better or worse.
Let's take a scenario - 30% of the players are queued to play killer, 70% of players queued to play survivor. 10% of the players on the killer side are waiting. Now let's say that 10% all select to go survivor, 2% of them get killer matches, 8% of them are playing survivor, things are going quicker.
On the theoretical level, that's how it works and speeds up killer queues and probably what BHVR was thinking. But it gets a little deeper.
Among those 70% of survivors are probably a lot of people who wanted to play killer but didn't because of the wait and/or like to play both roles. Those players now instead of just playing survivor, throw their name in the killer pool as well. This quickly necessitates longer and longer wait times for those who want to only play killer (or how frequently they get to play killer if they were okay with playing survivor).
In a hypothetical 'worst/best' (depending on your point of view) where everyone went to play killer and also go on survivor, people would be doing roughly 4 matches of survivor for every one they got of killer.
We'll never get anywhere close to that extreme, but the 4 to 1 dichotomy works against killer queue times, because there's a lot more survivors who can come over to the killer side and do both roles than there are killers who could do the same thing. Potentially the only thing that prevents it from completely spiraling out of control (from a pure killer only perspective) is the amount of people playing SWFs.
That's true. I hadn't thought of that angle. Even though I'm one of those people playing both I pretty much never use the pwyw. If the killer queues are long and that's what I want to play then I just won't play.
The one part that doesn't fit is that the original addition of the pwyw didn't seem to change anything. I remember the queue being normal after last 2v8 when it was introduced. The change came after Jason but my survivor matches have gone down to having the same amount of Jasons as pretty much anyone else. Things are mostly back to normal but the queues are still off.
Interesting to think the big bad SWF might be keeping queues at okay levels though. I often wonder what would happen to this game if SWF was nerfed or partying up was impossible. Won't happen, but I wonder.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102617#Comment_4102617
Play while you wait might have something to do with it also, I'd love to see the percentage of players who use it
Coz I bet there is a lot of people who'd not normally play killer if the queues are long doing it coz of play while you wait.I'd think pwyw should theoretically make killer queues shorter since more people would be active on survivor instead of clogging up the line doing nothing. The fact that it's only available on killer is also pretty telling. Even when survivor has a queue and killer doesn't (which is currently rare) there's no option for survivors to play killer while they wait.
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@Nazzzak said:
I play during the day and the current killer queue times are abnormal. Several months ago I'd wait max of 1-2 minutes, now it's anywhere from 4-6 minutes. Sometimes longer. In the evenings it was instant but now it's around 1-2 minutes. The cause of it is up for debate, whether there's less people queuing up for survivor these days or maybe they're messing with matchmaking again like they have in the past (which notoriously messes with queue times), who knows. But it's definitely not normal for killer queues in all the years I've played.
Yeah I don't know why so many people won't just admit that killer has had a big spike in popularity lately. Anyone who watches the queue times has seen the change since Jason's release. Either more people want to play killer than they did 2 months ago or less people want to play survivor. Those are the two options.
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Well sure he is, the only basekit change he's had was a buff to camping.
Going next doesn't punish killers though. I've yet to see a Jason let up when people AFK or DC. They don't care how they win as long as they do. You're just making it easier.
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@GroovieAshes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102563#Comment_4102563
I'm saying the newer power creep Killer's are kind of a strong entry point. Newer players can jump in and have fun with them and I think BHVR actually wants a wide gap between Killer's with a High skill ceiling and some that are kind of brain dead.
This is an issue because you put someone like Jason in the hands of a Killer main with 5k hours and it's pretty miserable.
Survivor is in a rough spot, solo is always going to be a challenge.
I do not agree entirely with the direction BHVR is taking the game but I do understand that Killer has to be the power role and feel powerful.
I'd say the newer killers are pretty baffling to a brand new player. Jason does too much and understanding it all is hard. And imagine a new player on Henry. The last intro I'd want to killer is someone like Dracula or Vecna who do a zillion things and you've got to figure out the right timing to do all of them. Killers like Wraith, Huntress or even Legion or Clown are still better choices for new players.
Power role sure, but it should be a power you learn and master, not just free wins. Again, who would player survivor against that? Killer mains playing pwyw and who dont care about match outcomes? Because you aren't going to catch me playing a role that feels impossible to win.
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@GroovieAshes said:
Killer has to "eat good" or we don't have a game. Imagine try to get newer players into the Killer role who get bullied and abused every game, not an easy sell.
I don't entirely agree with it. Any good Perks Survivors get are eventually nerfed. They release two Survivors ( 6 Perks ), five of them are trash and the good one will get nerfed.
On top of a constant Power Creep Killer, what can you even continue to develop for Survivor Perks that isn't just a Meme or complete waste of time?
Have you seen what goes on below the soft cap recently? No one is bullying those killers. The survivors just crouch around the map and then get downed immediately. But by your same logic, why would anyone stick with survivor when you just die over and over to a bunch of mechanics you don't understand? I played only killer for a while when I was new because of how frustrating and info heavy survivor was.
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@MDRSan said:
I do wonder how elusive off hook is going to play out when it comes to heals.
- Heal under hook and you're healing under hook - something you obviously don't want to do if the killer is tunneling.
- Run away to heal with the unhooker and now you have scratch marks and someone potentially giving aura. Not your scratch marks or aura, but they're still leading straight to you.
- Run away alone and self-heal (provided you can) - boom, conspicuous action. No more elusive, endurance, or haste.
- Run away alone and don't get healed - the only option that preserves elusive while using it in a way that serves its anti-tunnel purpose.
So survivors give up 5 seconds of endurance and haste and in exchange they get 10 seconds of a status that's useless if they want to heal? Ooowee, what a deal.
Yeah this is my concern, that it'll be kinda useless. There's really isn't any safe option as long as your unhooker isn't Elusive too. They'll either leave a trail of marks to you or get picked up by aura. I run Nurse's Calling regularly and I'll still be able to see the aura of the healer, healing thin air. As much as people love to talk about how strong Eluisve is, there's a lot it doesn't do. It doesn't block footsteps or breathing, KI, loud noise notifications from perks and add ons, or killer specific visuals like blood and scent orbs. It's also still going to be useless against many of the tunnelers who just hit you off hook the moment your feet hit the ground, which we'll probably be seeing a ton more of with this change.
I'd much rather have the extra 5s as it was.
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If you have no other info and nothing happening, why not? You know there are at least two people there. It's what you do when you get there that the debates begin.
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It's me, the random killer.
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I'm pretty simple. I don't like any kind of build up. I don't like stealth or set up or traps or the long game approach. I like to chase people and down them. The only set up killer I play regularly is Plague. I generally run 2 aura and one or two anti-gen for perks, and often aura add-ons when available. I've never actively tried to create a 3 gen and I've never run an end game perk.
Mostly I play Henry nowadays and Lethal and Nurse's Calling are requirements. I have to have fast momentum with him. With Lethal and Smashed Cassette Deck I aim to have World Breaker up 10s in and a down within 30s.
It would probably surprise a lot of people that I'm a fairly aggressive player. My opponents are often good so I've become less chill. If people give me an opening I'll take it and I do play to win, but I'm very inclined to give hatch to survivors who get screwed over by sandbagging teammates.
I usually average about a 70% KR so i guess it goes fine.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102270#Comment_4102270
Im wondering how the no collision part would work for body blocking. I know this sounds obvious, but back in the day with OG Freddy, survivors who couldn't be injured COULD bodyblock still since autoaim wouldn't allow Freddy to swing THROUGH them and hit the survivor in front.
Was that happening to you with invincibility during the banquet? I didn't have any issues. But I also don't ever notice this autoaim people complain about. I've never had a sudden swerve that felt like it wasn't my own doing.
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@Massquwatt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102241#Comment_4102241
The solution to anti-tunnel isn't stacking more effects onto people. All we really need is just a 3-5 second unhook notifcation delay and we're pretty much golden.
Won't work for campers. They should just take the invincibility and invisibility ideas and combine the with total silence. There's no way to abuse being silent, invisible, and having no collision. They won't do it though because it's too absolute.
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You're saying your coworker knows enough about dbd and your post history in this forum to reference your past post, access your stats, and make fake screenshots out of those stats?
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Having a constant stream of new members means we have the same threads over and over every week or month. It gets tedious, so people just downvote instead of repeating themselves endlessly. The way people say things also matters. One sentence posts say nothing. Aggressive tones will also get you downvoted. Plenty of people will downvote any take against their preferred role, or any person who they already don't like. The voting is half popularity contest so if you roll up hot and angry, or you're established and people already feel some way about you, the votes can be more about the person than the take.
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This is hard for me to believe. I've never once had a match this short except when someone used instagen cheats. I'd like to see a recording of matches like this.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102214#Comment_4102214
In before all the gooners whine that we didn't get the young attractive surv off the vote.
Would not call myself a Gooner, but I also voted for her. Simply because attractive Survivors have a higher possibility to be played. Since the looks are the most important thing for a Survivor.
And honestly, I hope Aurora will also be played. But I would not be surprised if the community voted for a character they dont like afterwards. People already wanted Survivors who are not that attractive, we got Haddie and Taurie for example and nobody plays them. For every Haddie I see there is an army of Sables.
I think a lot of these characters suffer from lack of good skins. I like Haddie but her cosmetics suck, but Zarina wasn't popular and that Plague Doctor skin heavily boosted her. I see it all the time in my matches now, whereas I barely saw her before. Same thing with Jonah. He has no cosmetics and what he has sucks.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102185#Comment_4102185
This is getting pretty far away from my point again, I'm not here to argue how effective any given thing will be. Just pointing out that the specific take of BHVR only listening to one side clearly isn't accurate.
Personally, I feel pretty warm towards most of what we've seen here, but it's just gut feeling until we get to play on a PTB.
It's not listening to both sides if one side sees 80% impact and the other sees 20%.
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They have to be careful. Chases can be quickly ended by LoS breakers and stealth perks, and stealth killers operate differently. Chase in time form isn't a good indicator of things when there's so many moving parts. Hooks would be concerning too. Imagine you get a lot of hooks but not a lot of wins and your games still get harder. On the flipside, killers who 4man slug might not increase if it's hook based.
It's hard to judge skill in anything that can generate a number without any indication of what actually happened in the match.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102127#Comment_4102127
The survivor meta and killer niche things being nerfed here are both complained about, hence me making the point I originally made.
People have been complaining about Sprint Burst for at least as long as I've been playing, and Vigil's been getting steadily more complaints ever since the buff it got a while back. Admittedly I don't personally see much Deliverance complaining, but it is a very strong perk so not too surprising.
Similarly, people have been complaining about hex builds with a focus on Jason, and people have been complaining about aggressive slugging builds. Thrill is a core component of those hex builds and Coulrophobia is at least one component of aggressive slugging builds.
This extends outwards. People complain about bad survivor perks, and survivor perks are getting buffed, including ones people say are bad when they aren't like Clean Break. This is happening on the killer side too.
People complain about anti-tunnel being used aggressively + the fifteen seconds being too much in the endgame, so it's being lowered, but people also obviously complain about tunnelling + talk about how parts of the anti-tunnel PTBs were fine to implement, so they're matching that with adding back something from those PTBs.
Whether these are good ideas and what impact they'll have on the game are different subjects we'll be more equipped to talk about after the PTB hits, and also they're just not what I'm saying here. Complaints are clearly getting listened to on both sides in just this one upcoming patch based on what we've been told from that stream.
Again, they're not the same. Everything is getting a numbers change instead of a functional change, which is what's needed. Vigil, SB, and especially the basekit BT will actually feel something from that, unlike the other perks. No one asked for this weird Deliverence change. Having it deactivate in end game would have been the more logical choice.
The killer numbers changes have completely missed the point. They won't address any of the issues they're meant to tackle. Whenever Nowhere to Hide comes up pretty much everyone agree the aura should stick to the gen. That's not what they're doing. It's the same with Coul. It needs to not work on slugs, and it needs to come with a rework to Infectious.
They treated all these things the same but they're not the same, and the survivor side will be feeling it much, much more—again. That's the problem. Every killer will benefit from these survivor nerfs, especially the BT; survivors will get crumbs from the killer changes.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102118#Comment_4102118
As I said, I'm responding to the take that BHVR only listen to killers and survivor feedback is ignored, so no, I'm not saying those things are the same.
I of course have my own opinions about the upcoming changes but outside of acknowledging where they intersect with my point, I wasn't commenting on that part. I was responding to someone saying a specific thing, not the general contents of this upcoming patch.
I agree with their take, and this is a good example of it: nerfing survivor meta and basekit while nerfing killer niche.
I don't see a lot of listening to survivor complaints because I don't see enough survivor complaints. They're too quiet compared to killer mains. All I see is the CC gods cry about something on survivor side and their drones repeat it. There are people in this forum that have shown enough evidence that they're new to the game yet they complain about things that they've had zero interaction with. The killer side has an outrageous amount of parrots. The only time I see mass survivor complaints is when something big like this or the anti-tunnel ptb nuke happens. Yet the nerfs still go through. When's the last time a big change happened on killer because of survivors. Skull Merchant and gen kick limits? That was years ago.
I also don't think a lot of killer nerfs are complaint related. Henry was nerfed less than 2 months after release. Did you see endless complaints about him? People barely said a thing about him past his first week of release, and his players dropped off quick. It most likely happened because he was over performing, not because of feedback. But I highly doubt Fast Track was overperforming. Fog Vials didn't even get a chance. The anti-tunnel protection also never went live. It feels like killer nerfs are made more because of data, and survivor nerfs are made more because of outrage from killers.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102109#Comment_4102109
The point isn't that these changes are meant to be one to one equivalent, the point is that feedback from both sides is clearly getting listened to because even this upcoming patch has changes informed by complaints and pain points from both killers and survivors.
That's the take I was responding to, specifically.
Do you really think those tiny adjustments to Thrill and Coul are the same as cutting 5s off of basekit BT, which is a massive change and the only token gift received when everything that was supposed to help with tunneling, slugging, and camping was canceled?
If Coul is being changed because of full slug builds than they missed the mark because Infectious is the bigger problem, and they're also buffing Nurse's to work better with slugging. So that's pointless and will change nothing. Coul just shouldn't work on slugs. The change to Thrill is also a niche build change and it's not going to kill hex builds. How hexes function needs a complete rework as does Thrill. Nerfing something like SB that's been meta for a decade, is not on the same planet as these other perks. You can say these aren't supposed to be equivalent but they're rolling out at the same time, and what we have is nerfs to two niche killer perks along with nerfs to two massively meta survivor perks, plus nerfs to survivor basekit. This following on the heels of nerfs instanerfs to Cross Examinarion and Fast Track. Meanwhile, Turn Back the Clock entered the meta unscathed.
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@jesterkind said:
Respectfully, I think you're letting isolated examples get too much weight here.
Even in the stream we're talking about here there were obviously things from survivor feedback, like nerfing Thrill and Coulrophobia and buffing the perks that they shared. Hell, they're if anything listening to player feedback too much because strong perks like Adrenaline and Clean Break are getting buffed.
Not complaining, though, I love Clean Break, I'll happily take it.There's a similar thing happening with the basekit BT being shortened, because they're also giving something at the same time. It's obviously an entirely valid opinion to think that won't make up for losing five seconds of duration (though I'm not sure I'd agree with it), but not mentioning it at all makes the argument come off as a little disingenuous.
You could make a similar argument about killer, too. Nurse may not have been nerfed in a long time, but Blight got nerfs recently with more changes announced for sometime down the road, Kaneki has been nerfed a few times (though I'd agree not enough, that's just a different argument altogether), Krasue was nerfed in a reasonable timeframe. That just leaves Jason, and he's brand new, there's not been as much opportunity to nerf him yet.
(And they are addressing survivor complaints about Jason by nerfing Thrill, too.)Changes do come to the game for both sides, it's pretty easy to think of things that have been done to benefit survivors over the last however long. Like I said above, I'm pretty stoked for some of the survivor changes in the upcoming patch, one of my favourite perks is getting buffed and two really obnoxious killer perks are getting nerfed, that's pretty nice as far as I'm concerned.
Making adjustments to the most overtuned killers isn't the equivalent of popular survivor perks and even basekit being nerfed. If you don't like a killer change there's 40 more you can choose from, and every killer that drops now is A tier. A ten-year-old perk is being nerfed in an environment where every killer that comes out is strong. We're about to have a killer who can both infect and injure you simultaneously from across the map while getting basekit old ruin and not having to risk hook denials, after the release of a killer that can quick reload, move super fast while invisible, get free info, and has had camping recently buffed. This is an illogical time to nerf survivors this heavily, and we've had a stream of insanerfs to perks like Fast Track and Cross Examination, and there were fog vials and medkits too. I can't see the logic in making killers more and more strong while survivors have, for some years, gotten very little. The same perks have been meta for years because all the new ones are garbage or get destroyed, so now they'll just destroy those old ones too too.
it's pretty easy to think of things that have been done to benefit survivors over the last however long.
The only big positive change survivors have had was the basekit BT increase and now it's gone.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101841#Comment_4101841
I dont think they record matches if they did there would be some replay, how don you prove it then even from stats its not much proveable unless like same survivor or more of them doesnt unhook you in very short time window.
But even then its just words which can be very easily used and be abused for banning innocent people by just others disliking them.
Like you play with 3 man and do something they wont like so all report you for ratting out and how can you prevent ban (if the report is all they need for ban) without record of the match????
You cant thats why I think its bs because if it would work like you say then its very easy to abuse for banning innocent people.
Recording only reported matches for thier own internals wouldn't be something they need to show or tell anyone about. We've all suddenly gotten more messages about our reports having action taken. It's logical to assume that something in the system has changed.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101788#Comment_4101788
If you record it to bitter end yes they can be, but thats not something all do so in the end its words vs words.
Like it or not.
Can you prove that? Because it says you don't need to record for things like griefing, and I know for a fact they ban for it. It specifically says you must make an in-game report but you don't need to record. So for all we know they're backward recording those matches that get flagged.
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People are punished for this.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101732#Comment_4101732
Anyone honest who has played longer than a year can tell you queue times were instant for survivor during the day and the opposite at night for the vast majority of the game's history. This isn't consistent with that past. We're also over a month since Jason's release, with a new survivor released since.
Yeah anyone who monitors the queue knows it hasn't looked right since Jason came out. I had instant killer queues at night and now I don't. Killer is extremely popular right now compared to normal, or survivor is unpopular. Neither of those options fit the killers-are-quitting narrative. It's really weird to nerf survivor when the role is already underperforming. I can only assume killers bring in more momey.
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101721#Comment_4101721
Has there been a single update in the last three years to actually improve the survivor experience? Even abandon is meant more to mitigate toxic pissbabies and get the survivors back into queues faster because they're starved as #########. They just keep tweaking off-hook BT and nerfing the ######### out of anti-tunnel and anti-slug perks while killers shriek hysterically that those existing at all is oppressing them.
The extra 5s of BT thrown as a pity token after the ptb was nuked was it, I guess, and crying has gotten that killed now too. It truly does seem if you whine long enough, loud enough, you'll get your way. Every new killer does 50 things and is A tier and the supposed oppression of killers just never ends. I wanted the SB and Vigil nerfs too, but not in a vacuum. Killer meta perks seem to have escaped mostly unscathed.
I don't think abandon was an improvement though. It's an unwillingness to fix issues, and it messes up MMR and personal stats. I hate abandon with a passion. I'm guessing we'll see killer abandons in end game soon since that's another weekly whining point. One day they're gonna complain their way into only have bots to play against.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101715#Comment_4101715
I am running Deliverance in a 2 man SWF and I dont see the Perk as being that bad. When it comes to me still having Deliverance in Endgame - yes, this can happen. But it is rare.
And in those rare circumstances, I feel that it is the Killers fault that there is still someone with Deliverance and no Hooks left in Endgame. Because either this Killer decided to not chase me or was outright tunneling. And I think this is the Killers fault in this case.
I've had Deliverance players with no hooks get hooked on purpose in end game in order to waste my time and let their team get to safety. Doesn't make me mad. It's clever. Hats off to them. But God forbid people acknowledge they were outplayed.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101673#Comment_4101673
against non-mobility killers
For me this is always a pretty bad argument. Because even if Sprint Burst will be nerfed, this does not mean that people will suddenly play their non-mobility Killers. Why should someone who plays Jason, Ghoul or Blight suddenly stop playing those Killers? Only because Sprint Burst gets nerfed does not mean that someone suddenly wants to play Trapper or Hag.
And if I look at my games, I almost never go against non-mobility Killers. So for me, if I would be using Sprint Burst, it would be nerfing a balanced Perk (according to your words).
The problem with non-mobility Killers are the Killers themselves.
I don't really think it ever stopped the people who like those killers anyway. SB is one of my biggest annoyances on my main. Didn't ever make me consider not playing him. People aren't changing their killers cause someone might have one perk.
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I think it's bs. Elusive will only do so much. Tunneling killers will just proxy camp harder so they don't loose LoS. From the bits and pieces I've heard about the stream it seems like a lot of survivor meta nerfs and the BT nerf as well, but stacking 4 slowdowns is untouched, and some niche killer builds were lightly nerfed. There's still nothing basekit to help solo. No anti-tunnel, slug, or camp. No ping system or chat wheel.
I haven't touched soloq in over a month. My survivor matches are lower than they've been in a year and they're really not reversing my course with this.
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@Mr_K said:
I don't think any of these needed nerfs. It's just selective outrage that will find a new target shortly after.
It always seems to work eventually too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101567#Comment_4101567
The vast majority of killers have a chase power though. Too many killers conditioned themselves to immediately break every pallet in chase because a guide from 7 years ago told them to zone and break. Weaker pallets are playable. Even Skull Merchant's kit allows you outplay safer tiles.
Yeah i don't know what's up with people who call the game a pallet breaking simulator. What's happening in threenacting. Just go around them. According to my stats, I break about 4 pallets per match, and a huge chunk of those are farmed. I recently had a match I was winning so hard I just flew around as bat Drac and broke ten pallets before reengaging.
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I keep telling myself I'll play him more but I only have like 15 hours on him. I appreciate his simplicity and ease of use, and he's very balanced, but that simplicity is why I never play him. I've become accustomed to killers with more bells and whistles. He's on my P100 list though, and that new skin is super cool, so I imagine I'll be playing him a bit more soon.
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If you can't effectively avoid flashlights than put on Lightborn. If the chat bothers you that much just turn it off. These two problems are easily solved. And you can't really say survivors are toxic if youre admitting being uncool in the chat too.
I don't really know what to tell you about feeling like you have to win except thinking about how unreasonable that is. Who would play survivor if killer was just supposed to win every match? I regularly get 2-hook 0ks on p100 killers. I'm angry in the moment, sure, but it doesn't take long for that to cool and for me to think about it logically. The people who are beating me that hard are either better than me or I screwed up. Both are fine. It's just a game. If you want to be the greatest player ever you're going to have to sacrifice having a normal life and your sanity.
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@QwQw said:
I love how Behavior is now just using Krasue's release to justify adding less content and fewer balance changes to the game, and no one seems to really care. Ridiculous.
At this point I think the only thing lazier than Behavior itself is DbD's player base. Literally any perk that doesn't grant an immediate game-winning effect gets written off as bad or useless. Like people across both roles are so scared of having to put in literally any effort to win, it's insane.
If a new perk is perceived to be strong it gets complained about until it's nerfed into uselessness, so either way nothing changes. You either get crappy new perks or okay perks that get nerfed into being crappy. There isn't even any point in making changes if they allow community outrage over everything to dictate their decisions.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Yeah don't be removing hatch. It's the consolation prize and good reason for surv players to keep playing when the killer has obviously won.
I don't like the sound of this 1v1 thing. It only rewards people who are good at chase. Not everyone plays like that. It's also just thematically a bit naff surv keeps running and suddenly randomly gets out somehow? The hatch endgame situations are super tense, and they can go both ways, either It's a tense stealthy situation, or if killer spots you they chase and you have to try and reach hatch first. Plus the mindgames of finding a key and letting killer lock hatch then sneaking in for the unlock.
A straight 45 second timer is kinda boring and honestly requires less skill than trying to transfer between tiles AND keep an ear out for hatch all while running chase.
It only rewards people who are good at chase
Yeah this is my problem with this idea. This last survivor might have unhooked everyone, healed everyone, and did multiple gens and now it comes down to also being good at chase. They also have a good chance of being screwed over by lack of resources, many of which could have been used by bad teammates. At that point it's luck and RNG based as much as hatch often is, and it favors the killer like hatch usually does.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101375#Comment_4101375
For working against teammates' perks specifically, I personally think that isn't all that big of a deal unless we're in the territory of hyper minmaxing coordinated 4-mans, which I think it's safe to say usually isn't the assumption lol
To showcase why I'll use the example of bringing Leader, and focus on the healing speed. If I bring Leader into a game, I expect to be healed by other survivors 30% faster.
If I'm healed by someone with Botany Knowledge, the DR system kicks in, but we're both still getting more than we expected. I expected to be healed 30% faster, but I'm being healed 65% faster instead. They expected to heal me 50% faster, and got a 15% increase unexpectedly.
This part of the system I'd argue is completely fine. It goes for the example you gave, too- one survivor has Prove Thyself and expects you to repair 10% faster because of it, and you have Deja Vu so you expect to repair 6% faster. Both of you get an increase from your expected numbers to 13%.Comparing it to before, sure, that's a downgrade, but it's still an upgrade from what you meaningfully expected going in to a match.
The problem is if I knew someone had Deja Vu I wouldn't bring Prove Thyself. Nothing can make me bring a situationally nerfed perk. The fact is that the number it says on the menu and the number you end up with are two different numbers and that's downright deceptive. It feels like they installed this in a way that only a small percentage of players would notice it and understand it and it's otherwise a shadow nerf to builds for regular, casual players who don't obsess over every change in this game.
And, as usual, this is something a knowledgable SWF can avoid and solo can't.