UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092278#Comment_4092278
"what does that have to do with anything"- these are the best of each roles somewhat balanced to allow for the games to actually go fourth. Both sides are nerfed so that the games are interesting to watch, some would argue one side more than others, but most well known tournaments (European pro league, Lawless trial and the invitationals) Are run with the best of the best past qualifiers.
"even if we were to take it into account, how often does it happen?more than 50%? what do hook states look like?"- how often do you go against top tier killers? If we're talking about the probability of these events occuring we shouldn't even be talking about top tier nurse/hillbilly since you'll see them once every blue moon. But we are, we are talking about the best of the best, and so we must talk tournaments since thats the best example of top tier killer vs top tier survivor.
Now then, the other question you asked there that actually had any merit, what do hook states/stats look like. You know what, ill compile the dbd league 2026 results for you so you can see what happens in each, hook states and all. If i go to the effort to do that, and it shows exactly what i was saying, would you then, finally, accept that the best killers lose to the best survivors?
No, because it has nothing to do with the conversation. If we have a 1k killstreak Blight on video, if we have stats that show that Survivors by design lose more often than not, why would anyone have any reason to go "yeah, well Survivors do pretty well in an incredibly restrictive closed competition"?
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092276#Comment_4092276
Otherway around, dbd doesn't support backfills. People already leave because of any random reason like going down first, getting hit by a hit they didn't know is possible, standing up on the wrong leg and so on - those people would be muuuuuch more present if it didn't exist and even more people would do it.
We would just end up with matches that were never finished because any of the sides end it for some random reason before.
Those are issues with the game itself. I don't think the quality of matches has improved since the system has tightened up—there's just less bots.
@QwQw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092287#Comment_4092287
Because DbD has a "go next" epidemic, or whatever name you want to give it. It feels like every time even a minor inconvenience occurs someone leaves or gives up. Obviously if you're playing a multiplayer game that you readied-up for this type of behavior should be punished.
That being said, I also think Behavior needs to improve their D/C detection system, because getting penalized for their servers crashing or a hacker holding you hostage and forcing you to leave is ridiculous.
It's a band-aid. Hook suicides were not a common thing prior to the "perk shakeup" years ago, which shifted the game dramatically toward Killer. There is a failure to mention that players give up most often when the odds are stacked against them or when they're fatigued. Doubling down on punishments in that case only makes the problem worse.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4092289#Comment_4092289
I mean… you sound like the uproar would be a "bad" thing but, it is actually bad? In fact in games like Marvel Rivals there is a big uproar in the community because sometimes after you lose some matches you get paired against bots and the game tries to hide it. The devs hasnt even achknowledged it.
If i want to play against bots in DbD i would go into a custom match.
It isn't good or bad—it's ego-driven. When BHVR caters to that mentality, they reinforce those egos. It doesn't matter how unfun or how much time is wasted, as long as they help these players feel validated.
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No, because the Killer needs an audience. If they ever became aware that they're only killing bots, there would be an uproar. And as we've seen the past couple of years, they will be catered to if that happens.
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@QwQw said:
The penalties should be harsher.
This sentiment always confuses me because the game balance doesn't support it, but also because the penalties are already incredibly bizarre and harsh as it is. What makes you want them to be even worse?
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Solo queue is the worst of both worlds, which is the problem. Killer is lonely and at the mercy of RNG, but there are lots of little boosts to help them (camping/tunneling/slugging always being on the table, immunity to items, gen regression, stronger endgame, etc.). Solo Survivor is lonely, at the mercy of RNG, and has none of that support (unless they're lucky with matchmaking). Often times, you are left with no way to turn a bad situation around and nothing to do other than wait for it to end.
I could be off-base, but I feel like that's part of the machine that ensures the 60% KR. Which is another way of saying that they do not care and will not improve it.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091688#Comment_4091688
I mean have you watched comp tourney's? Comp SWF can easily get a 3e if they misread a couple mindgames.
What does that have to do with anything? Those are custom games with a tiny, curated group of players. Even if we were to take it into account, how often does it happen? More than 50%? What do the hook states look like?
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The DC penalty harms the game more than anything. It shouldn't exist.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091919#Comment_4091919
The sad thing is that it made it completely unuseable for people who just dont enjoy chases or are not good at them. And I dont think this should be an issue, since you can be stealthy and still be productive. But offering another way of playing the game instead of just becoming a looping god was great.
But having to become good at chases to earn Tokens for a Perk which lets you avoid chases is just very strange design.
That's ultimately the issue. These days you have to be good at everything or else you fail. And even then it's no guarantee.
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I always play nice. I never force people to be miserable and I let them all go. At the very least, I hope that I give them a break from the total circus the game is.
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- WGLF because they removed what made it the most healthy and enticing.
- Calm Spirit because it was harmless and now has an unnecessary penalty to "balance" an unnecessary buff.
- Distortion because you will never convince it was nerfed because of Survivors running it.
- Wake Up for the same reason.
- Blast Mine because there was nothing wrong with it. It isn't gutted, but the perk used to be a lot more fun pre-Wire Tap.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091690#Comment_4091690
I mean yeah the game has many issues however its pretty balanced compared to past versions. In the end I think its good to get feedback on new features while they're still in the devs mind, rather than someone forgetting to put a key mechanic into the perks/powers wording that was then added later once they've realized.
I don't find it to be balanced at all. The cheesiest stuff is still in the game, unchanged. All we've lost along the way is fun and autonomy. Stronger Killers enforce cheese, which amplifies how unfun the experience is. So it's pointless, in my opinion.
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If it makes you feel any better, I submitted a significant bug report months and months ago and they haven't even looked at it. It's just how they are.
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Hot take, any discussion on whether a new feature is too weak or too strong is moot as long as the core issues of the game are present.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091249#Comment_4091249
Lmao, and playing with Comms in a game not balanced around it and then pretending it doesn't make you insanely strong isn't egotistical?
Killer is stronger then survivor soloqueue, "casual" swf are on par with killer. Comp swf beat killer. These are generally accepted. And are Stated by big streamers, it's you who has an ego that your ability/knowledge of the game is better than those.
It's a tired narrative. It might've been true years ago, but nothing supports it anymore.
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That's not true. A whole lot has changed for the worst in the last 5 years. 😵
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090494#Comment_4090494
Do they? Because most agree SWF beats killer, which is survivor. Which would be them playing in the most optimal sense.
Most agree because Killer has an ego problem. Naturally the narrative would be that Killer is always the weakest even when the data says otherwise.
@Yamalive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090297#Comment_4090297
The issue is the game itself doesnt tell you anything besides "play as ugly you want". And the devs themself promote this with their statements and development. A game can never be called "balanced" if the premise of the devs is that one side should win more often by default.
Absolutely. They consistently choose the options that keep the worst parts of the game alive. The "balance" has always fallen on the kindness of individual players, which of course went out the window when they started encouraging more aggressive play.
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It's not "almost", it is completely BHVR's fault. Who else would be at fault? They refuse to address issues with the game and purposely balance it into a corner.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090297#Comment_4090297
If both sides play hard, survivors often have the advantage. The best nurse vs a decent comp team can lose pretty easily if they mess up 1/2 times.
Stats say otherwise. So do streams.
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Not until he ruins the anniversary event.
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@Abyast1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468788/when-survivors-encourage-killer-tunneling
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090212#Comment_4090212
My one cent in this is that if you play the game to win, on either side, you should expect the other side to do the same. If the general survivor community is ok to gen rush, teabag at exit gates ect, they should also be ok with killers camping, tunneling and slugging ect.
If the community wants to shift to a more casual style of play, absolutely and once one side initiates this if the other doesnt then we can morally shame one side ect, but the complaining about efficiency on one side needs to stop. Survivors can encourage tunneling in many ways, and it could be from the match before ect.
Ive always been a "play how you wanna play" kinda gamer, so maybe im underthinking this.
This is a general rule in games, but DBD is balanced in such a strange way that if both sides play hard you will still see one win more often than not. It's by design. More often than not, fairness falls on the players' shoulders despite the game doing everything it can to tell you that that's not how to play. And that's not even getting into player mentality.
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The bots can't be too good. It'd be too punishing to the role they focus the most on while also making DCs not feel so bizarrely punishing. Still wondering what the story is with Killer bots in custom games.
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@mecca said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090062#Comment_4090062
The game is only all about killer and so killers are the only ones having fun.
People really have the audacity to say this isn't true when the 10th anniversary surprise is a Killer chapter. 😵
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It is cheating. It's the same with every new Killer every new chapter.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090024#Comment_4090024
Not that I'm agreeing with your assessment that the event is going to be miserable for killers but assuming the premise is even partly true, why not? Survivors have just had to suck it up across multiple very killer sided events in the past and they still queued up for the blood points. Killers are too good for that?
Yes. We saw this same level of behavior over a survey nobody even knew about.
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Nothing, because the game encourages all of it. If we can't even get the most basic stuff addressed that would never fly in any other PVP, how are we really going to hold bad behavior that thrives on it accountable?
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@Chomperka said:
Remove hatch and replace it with some other objective that doesnt make last 2 survivors stealth hard. Calling for it for 3-4 years but somehow people still think giving win to a surv with 0% effort is a fair mechanic.
I wouldn't be mad if hatch were removed because it doesn't fulfill its original purpose of an anti-bottleneck mechanic anymore. It'd get rid of those really annoying hatch challenges too.
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- The claim that the game is "the most balanced it's ever been" gives the same vibe to me as "Smash is the best with all of the items turned off on Final Destination". It appears more balanced when you don't care about fun, but even then it's a mess. I think it's said by competitive minded people and then repeated verbatim.
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Players feel humiliated by something and want action taken. That's about the gist of it.
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@RAZINGHY said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085012#Comment_4085012
I see a lot of people not wanting Billy in DBD because of the way he treats Lucas on the show. I agree with those people, and that's why I also suggested Billy as a Killer skin
Dwight literally drugs people on more than one occasion. 😭 The more flawed they are, the more they fit neatly into the realm in my opinion. Plus if we start gatekeeping stuff like that, then I don't get to have Mr. Scratch for Wake. 😝
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The idea is cool. It's basically the DND map in Killer form, but there isn't enough incentive to use the doors. The chance of a 1-hit down is too costly. Spawning them right next to every generator feels like overkill too. Not a fan of the hatchet either, but it fits the MO of modern Killers being a jack of all trades versus doing one thing really well.
If it were at all possible, it'd be neat to have the other animatronics spawn in the trial and have the ability to make them to interact with Springtrap and the Survivors. They come after Survivors when they're scared but then you somehow convince them to turn toward ST. But I don't think funner side objectives would fix the issue of gens being too precious to take focus off of. It'd have to be something we're forced to do like reverse bear traps.
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Someone was working on a Billy mod before BHVR made that impossible. He'd be a great addition, but like Hopper, I'd prefer if he weren't a legendary. We need lifeguard Billy along with Scoops Ahoy Steve.
I don't wanna linger on it for too long, but people would be very strange for not liking Billy because he's an a-hole. Isn't that a running theme with at least half of the DBD cast now? 😵
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@random1543 said:
Ghoul /Ken , outside of balance issues who thought a anime guy weeb screaming in your face was good. If they really wanted to do anime in dbd should of picked a better IP like chainsaw man who at least looks interesting in the character design aspect. ghoul is anime guy number 254
Junji Ito fits the vibe perfectly. I wish they would've invested more in that. Imagine everyone running around in red sweaters holding their heads in place. 😂
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No Mither is one of my favorite perks but I tend not to run it much anymore. The overall trajectory of the game has been the biggest culprit on that front, but now the threat of not being able to have wiggle room with it because of a balancing system working against me (when the perk balances itself) doesn't exactly encourage me to jump back on it. And that sucks.
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Literally all of them.
But it wasn't always that way. I had my most and least favorites. But these days, at least in my trials, almost every Killer I go against runs the same perks and uses the same cheesy tactics that they're as indistinguishable from one another mechanically as Survivors. The only difference is that sometimes I have to listen to AliExpress Kate Bush or inject a vaccine in between steamrolls.
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@WinterFell said:
I'm not sure why survivors are, on the one hand, complaining about killers running slow down perks, and then complaining about killers running aura perks. Like what gives? Are killers supposed to run no perks? What would survivors complain about then. Oh yeah, tunneling…
More like all of the complaints stem from camping/tunneling/slugging (and general lack of comeback mechanic for Survivor) and aura and slowdown only emphasize it.
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DC penalties carry over, even if you haven't played in months. Dumb, I know.
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Every time they nerf these older perks, which are the only ones that are attractive enough to bring, it just harms variety more and more. In the age of effortless 4ks, I really don't think these perks are the end of the world.
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- Killer as a role caters to the worst kinds of players. Over time the skill ceiling has lowered considerably at the expense of Survivor (think of it like a scale—each weight added affects the balance), which attracts players that want to play oppressively with little resistance. Any criticism of this is deflected and it is ultimately defended by BHVR. While other PVP games prioritize addressing mechanics that give an unfair advantage, DBD does not. Instead it does all that it can to keep them, no matter the cost. ← That opinion is the king of all downvotes. But it's true.
- Most Survivor perks that have been labeled "problematic" for the last five years have merely been disliked and did not change the tides of the trial enough to warrant the treatment they've received.
- DCs should be free. A spike in DCs is reflective of the state of the game, not the morals of the players. The current system is cruel and unusual and borders on exhibitionist.
- All charms and cosmetics should be available to all players in the shop at any time. Including (wait for it) Deep Rift and Legacy cosmetics. Status items in a game with no trading system, where the majority of old players have left long ago mean very little.
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I'm still over here wondering how Distortion was unhealthy. 😵
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084376#Comment_4084376
Considering the high KRs of many consistent complainers about this issue, I don't think it actually effects much. I've never once felt like excessive pallets heavily contributed to either my killer losses or my survivor wins.
I've also never seen this clearly bugged spawn in a match.
It's hard to take complaints very seriously when frustration is packaged as poor balance. 😭 I am definitely concerned about the system creating situations where every pallet is in one area and the rest of the map is vacant though.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084372#Comment_4084372
They balance according to statistics and bureaucracy. BHVR is an incredibly bloated company and it's obvious that any changes have to go through a slew of middle managers. That's why a handful of very mid changes get pushed through, they have to satisfy several layers of mediocre people.
I agree with that. But I still don't think statistics play a very significant role. They say they do, but if everything gets smacked down during that bureaucratic stage then it's a mere suggestion at best. The "year of health" proved that beyond a shadow of doubt.
@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084372#Comment_4084372
I obviously know that buffing all lower tier killers won't fix much, and obviously nerfing the top 3 killers will just cause players to migrate to other strategies or characters to get their "gotta win every game" fix. But honestly, if fixing pallet density directly isn't an option, because statistics show that with these density changes the top 3 killers have normal killrates now, then how is behavior supposed to tackle this? Their stats say the opposite of what people are experiencing en masse. The only realistic options are to make every killer suffer equally by nerfing the highest performers, or to somehow bring every pallet-vulnerable M1 killer up to par.
Ideally, in my mind, the best option would be a mix of fixing the pallet density and slightly nerfing the top performing killers. That way, you don't need to go and find ways to buff every single outdated killer, and the lowered pallet density won't cause the top tier killers to go back to stomping 60% or more of their matches consistently. But that's just my 2 cents.
I'm not saying you're wrong. It's more that I think this is a distraction or a pet project. They create a problem, let it stew, make it worse, and then fix it and in the end we accomplish nothing. That's why I suggest we cut the fat and go right to the heart of the issue—the core gameplay. But with the other quote above taken into account, that'll never happen and it's tragic.
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Honestly, I think all of them. The gameplay reflects the original Killers well, but the ones introduced come from films where deception is a key factor and their victims use everything in their power to survive until the end. In game, it tends to be more about cheese 24/7. It would make for the most unsatisfying film to watch ever.
Using Jason for example. He never makes himself fully known until the latter half of his films. He isolates his victims and picks them off one by one. Deaths are surprising and brutal, until he gets down to the wire and the victims begin exploiting his trauma or other weakness to gain an advantage over him. Sometimes they even scare or confuse him. However, in DBD he's going to down someone, come back to the hook, tunnel, and get a 4k without a lot of effort. At this point, it's just the same old garbage with a different coat of paint.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084173#Comment_4084173
I forgot about that; it's gonna be at least 30 minutes. We might see 10x bonus for Survivors.
With Play While You Wait, I don't think they even need that honestly. Kind of the worst of both worlds.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
This is very likely a Bug. You should report it:
https://app.betahub.io/projects/pr-5642738318/issues
I have tested it 10 times now on custom games and I saw the Double Pallet spawn once. However, I have seen the Pallet on the right (in the picture) spawn all the times while the Pallet on the left never spawned alone. If I had to guess, I would say that the issue is that the Pallet on the right always spawns and then, if the minimum amount of Pallets is not reached, the other Pallet spawns as well. Which is a rare occurence, but with the Pallet on the right spawning 100% of the time it might mess up the Pallet Logic. (Obviously 10 games is not a huge number of matches, but 10 times more than that one screenshot)
Those are not God Pallets tho… I feel people use the term way too frequently nowadays. Especially the right one is very unsafe. And without the Bug, the left one is also not safe either.
Additionally, not to be that guy but I do have to wonder what the results of these trials look like. Even if they spawn in great areas, unlike this, does it consistently prevent a 4k or does it only delay it?
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I think the same thing happened when they tried this years ago. Whatever algorithm they use to determine tiles is constantly flawed. When they do it manually, we end up with nothing. When they automate it, it's inconsistent and doesn't actually improve very much.
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082416#Comment_4082416
if you use, 😭, 😂, 😵, ☠️, 😱, in a serious conversation/discussion your are trolling. (At least in my limited opinion)
Especially the fabled 🤣, anyone who uses that you know has lost all semblance of reason and is fuming behind the screen.
It does sound limited, you're right. Thank you for your feedback.
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I don't actually believe they balance based off of statistics. What we see tends to be so random that it wouldn't add up if that were true. There's also a considerable amount of "feel good" balancing that enables the power role to feel oppressive and any attempt to change that is quickly squashed.
Personally, I think all 3 options are surface-level. Buffing all Killers will only exacerbate the problem, nerfing the top 3 does nothing to mitigate the issue of camping/tunneling/slugging (at most, we'd see a shift like when Stridor Spirit was nerfed), and map changes last until they release a new one. I think the most important thing to change the entire game balance would be to implement a strong and fair scaling difficulty, like the one in 2v8 but actually effective. Next would be to rework gens and hooks. Finally would be to emphasize fun again once the game is in a stable state once more. Anything less is a band-aid and unfortunately, BHVR is only willing to do even less than that.
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@TheArbiter said:
If they were ever going to give out free auric cells now would be the time
They used to give out enough iri shards to buy a character at one point in time, but they haven't done anything like that in years. Even when they accidentally gift us all a cosmetic, they opt to remove it from everyone's inventory and cause issues for those who purchased it than just cut their losses and let us keep it. I don't know why they're so stingy about these things, but I don't foresee us getting free auric cells for anything. 😦
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082070#Comment_4082070
I'm trying to be respectful, but it was very much a "stopped reading" moment for me, because anyone who argues in favor of FTP+BU is either trolling or so survivor-biased that their opinion doesn't mean anything.
Both the anti-slug and anti-camp systems were egregiously overpowered and hated by the overwhelming majority of the community.
DS is working fine and is debatably the strongest perk survivors have - and that is not a condemnation of other survivor perks.
The DC penalties targeted survivors because there was and kind of still is a survivor ragequitting epidemic. And not because of any balancing reasons, because the community has normalized the idea that it's okay to quit if you don't like the match you're in for any reason.
So the only thing left is like… I guess survivor stealth being nerfed, but even other survivors wanted that because people would abuse stealth perks to rat and avoid ever taking chase at the expense of the rest of their team.
So I'm trolling because I don't agree with you? 😵 It's an odd way to say that I'm biased without admitting your own biases but alright.