Pallet density is definitely a problem
I just got out of a match where it was just pallet into pallet into pallet. Literally pallets like 10 meters apart. I think i counted at least 25 pallets.
I'm gonna record a match here and upload give me a hot minute.
EDIT: Adding matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy7wWkY2Sqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTkkcduLT44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BnJ7Px66hU
Comments
They say "Its all working as intended" I don't see the vision but that's just me. There were a lot of maps that had horrible deadzones, most of that has been fixed at least.
You mean like this? loool
i'm uploading a match to youtube right now, counted 20 pallets, all within 10-15 meters of each other. Doing a second one now.
Added videos. The 1st one shows what i'm talking about where there were 20 pallets, all within 10-15 meters of each other.
The second video shows a bunch in one area, then still a massive deadzone on the other side of the map of just nothing, but then stacked all the pallets on one half of the map.
The 3rd video i stood in a few spots with zanshin and counted legit 10 pallets all around me within a 32 meter radius.
That is insane man.
If they gut pallet density, then they need to add more windows, make maps bigger, and remove short/short loops.
Which I have a feeling wouldn't be approved of either, so what is the solution here?
They need to start spawning pallets based on the killer you are versing
is this too many pallets for killers such as ghost face and unknown? yeah.
Is this too many pallets for the top tiers like ghoul and nurse? not at all.
Yeah MacMillan is excessive. This realm is the most problematic in my opinion. Every possible tile/loop has a pallet. Every filler area, has a pallet.
The spawn logic of the pallets isn't great either as you said. One side of the map Pallet City. The other side. Barebones.
Tbh nurse in current state (without rework) isnt killer that gets influenced by pallets at all even as number 1 killer.
But that idea is good but I doubt devs will know how to balance it.
agree there every match would have to be a pallet factory for nurse having one every 5m 😂
But yeah really wish they would go that direction because there will never be a balanced state for all killers if spawn logic is the same across them all
Been seeing a lot of players who main survivor complaining (rightfully) that the killers in their matches have been a lot of just Nurse and Ghoul, but don't seem to diagnose the reason why. Nurse's pickrate was relatively low for a free character up until these changes, but now she's competing for top 5 pickrates. If this is the pallet density as intended, I hope people are ready to rename the game to Ghoul by Nurselight, because that's all there will be left in due time.
Keyword is "density" here, the problem was never the concentration of pallets, more so it was the amount of pallets with a small adjustment needed for loop distance. That was all it would take. Instead we've got maps with up to 15 pallets chainable by anyone with over 100 hours all in the same 50 meter stretch of the map with potentially 4 or more windows. Combine this with the shape of some of these maps, like Ironworks of Misery, The Thompson House, Torment Creek, Eyrie of Crows, or of course Garden of Joy. The sheer size of these maps with designs that rarely have any pallets/gens in the direct middle means killers who can't just ignore pallets and have to play around them get to go on pallet tours that can last up to 10 minutes if a survivor manages to get a few stuns or fakes. Holding W from one loop to the next is easier than ever. And like I said, when I play survivor I never really get to benefit from these absurdly powerful pallet chains because I end up facing nothing but Nurse and Ghoul, who just teleport or vault through the pallet to catch me.
Most maps just needed an additional one or two pallet spawns guaranteed, and maybe a meter or two reduced here and there to some tiles that spawned miles apart. What they've done has seemingly gone off the rails and led to the game generating main buildings like the one I got as survivor on Suffocation Pit, where 2 of the 3 main building pallets spawned, both on the same path around the building, as well as both windows spawned across from each other in the same route, and then on both sides of the main building were long-wall pallet loops that chained into another long-wall pallet loop about 10 meters away from it. Meaning I looped a Clown around the main building for 6 minutes straight only dropping two of the six pallets at my disposal, all while he played perfectly using his speed and slow-down bottles at every loop. But because he couldn't afford to get stunned, I was always able to make it around the building and break chase for a second. It was funny at first, but got incredibly boring really fast. Playing killer shouldn't rely entirely on survivors making mistakes. Bloodlust, window vault limits, breakable walls, pallets being breakable, are all intentional design choices that allow killers to catch even the most skilled survivor eventually. And yet, none of these things seem to help with how many pallets some maps have right now.
To be clear, Pallet Density should have been designed to fill in the specific deadzones of certain maps. Not create "The Game" for most maps.
In anti camp/slug ptb they had different effects on like 8 killers they thought that are top tier mostly with mobility and they werent wrong but hard to tell about the rest because this would need like 3 versions with pallets one for killers like blight, second for killers like springtrap and third for characters like ghostface or demo.
But thats lot of work from them.
You know, it's not a terrible idea to increase pallet density for killers who have been proven to be high tier.
The question is if we can trust BHVR to implement that correctly lol.
"Our stats show that Sadako has the highest kill rate, so she will have the highest pallet density"
Jason should've come with one of my Pallet chomping perks:
Corrupt Favoritism:
Every pallet broken throughout the trial gains 1 token. Activates if the exit gates are powered in under 10 minutes.
For each token gained, any remaining upright pallets are destroyed by the Entity.
Excess tokens inflict any remaining survivors with the Deep Wounds status up to 4.
If excess tokens still exist after the first 2 effects are met, the exits are blocked to match in seconds the remaining excess tokens, when they are opened.
Scourge Hook: Territorial Dominance
Your shrines of Sacrifice Mark unsafe ground for your victims to tread.
At the start of the Trial, 4 random hooks are changed into Scourge hooks.
Scourge hooks are revealed to you in White.
Each time a Survivors is hooked on a scourge hook, the following effects apply:
Up to 3 Used/Down Pallets within 16/24/32 meters of All Scourge hooks are Destroyed.
If no Used/Down Pallets are Available, Then the closest 1 Upright Pallet within 16/24/32 meters of the Scourge Hook you hook a survivor on is destroyed instead.
Head of the House:
Your previous encounters with survivors have awakened your sense of preparation in the trial grounds.
Up to 4/6/8 Randomly Chosen Pallets in the trial grounds are revealed to you in White.
Whenever a survivor drops any of these Pallets, they are Instantly Destroyed.
Stunning penalties still apply.
Undeterred Rage:
The Survivors struggles against you have finally reached their limit, and now you will show them why it's unwise to agitate you any further.
Every 4/3/2 times you are Stunned or Blinded by survivors, This perk activates.
Performing a Lunge Attack on a Down Pallet or Breakable Wall will instantly destroy it, and extend your Lunges Range by 50%.
All Missed and Successful attack recovery Speeds after breaking a pallet or breakable wall this way takes 50% longer.
Notes: Basically, if you get stunned or blinded enough you can just charge through the next dropped pallet or breakable wall and try to get a hit. It's like Billy's Lopro Chains add-on, but only applies to basic attacks and requires taking a bit of a beating to charge up.
Most of these I've suggested since 2022. Albeit, Corrupt Favoritism is one I came up on the fly, literally today, so… yeah, can't blame for not using that one, but can for at least not taking any inspiration from the others. I swear, the only thing they ever took inspiration from me for was my Killer concept back in 2019:
Read it if you want, It's hella long, but there's a shorter TL:DR version at the end if you wanna skip all the backstory stuff, and tell me, truthfully if none of what I suggested in it applies to any killer brought into DbD AFTER the post was made?
The solution was to not stack pallets on pallets. Just fill in your deadzones and make sure your Spawn Logic actually spawns pallets evenly across the board for survivors so they have a fair chance no matter what part of the map they are on.
Filling deadzones with pallets that are horrifically unsafe is the same as having no pallet at all.
Unless you want every pallet to be super strong, simply nerfing pallet density would be a terrible change for survivor unless it was balanced with loop strength or map strength, two things killers also hate.
I don't see a fair solution being proposed, so it just comes across as wanting to heavily nerf survivors for nothing.
I am not sure why you would imply this.
I didn't say that we should fill those zones in with unsafe or super safe pallets. It would be pallets that survivors can actually use because that is the point. However if its too unsafe or super safe. It would be poor design.
This isn't a complicated topic so I am not sure why it keeps coming back up in terms of feedback of course other than the frustrations its causing which I understand….The entire point of pallet density was create less deadzones on maps for survivors which NEEDED to happen. There were way too many and there shouldn't be.
However, stacking 5 decent to safe pallets slammed all next to Shack, isn't exactly what the game needed. Its in same cases the pallets that spawn like that are still spawning in with a map filled with pallets no matter where you go such as MacMillan Maps. However, in some cases some maps are spawning pallets all on mostly one side while leaving a separate section completely bare.
I think the same thing happened when they tried this years ago. Whatever algorithm they use to determine tiles is constantly flawed. When they do it manually, we end up with nothing. When they automate it, it's inconsistent and doesn't actually improve very much.
The pallet density alone made me take a break from DBD
No they dont game was fine before pallet density, there were only a few problematic maps
Agreed. Pallet density definitely needed a buff, but BHVR went a bit too far. If they just reduce the current pallet density a little bit, I think maps will be in a perfect spot. At least those maps that don't have other design problems. But what they shouldn't do is revert the latest pallet density update, or we'll just end up with some maps that have too many deadzones again.
The problem isn't the pallet density itself, nor was it before the updates.
The main problem is the RNG based tile spawning, which should have been done away with, years ago at this point!
If they had created the maps with fixed tiles and pallets, it would have been so much easier to properly balance loops and gym tiles.
Get rid of most of the tiny filler tiles, and instead give us fewer, but stronger tiles. Not to the level of Nostromo outdoor tiles, but more like the good old Autohaven car loops, with a good mix of taller and shorter walls.
RNG doesn't help, but its still spawning too many pallets.
The devs have already said that Pallet Density is not going away