UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864329#Comment_3864329
No solution will be perfect, and any proposed solution will incur some new issues. The goal is whether the new idea will improve over the existing problems. That's true for problem solving for basically any type of issue, not just video games.
I should also note that my favored solution would be a rapidly increased bleedout for both thematic and balance reasons, but looking through your list of issues:
What if a player doesn't want to quit?There's lots of situations where I don't want to die or lose, that's part of a game.
What about the scenario where 2 players are left, one is distracting as the other is opening the gate and goes down under a pallet nearby. You just force them to die? Doesn't the instart mori on 3rd downed survivor guarantee its impossible to save or attempt to escape? No flashlights or flashbang attempts? No stall for Unbreakable? What if they've got Flip Flop and Power Struggle? WGLF and Made For This? What if I've used Breakdown and successfully made a Deadzone?I'd be fine with that. In this scenario you have a standoff situation. One survivor is under a pallet, the other can rescue, but if the survivor crawls out from under the pallet the killer picks them up.
Basically the survivors are now hoping to out boredom the killer. I'm fine with that situation disappearing as well (or basically any situation in DbD that can be described as a standoff).
I was in a situation like this as killer. Playing on Ormond, doors open, survivor is downed under a pallet, too far to make it to the door, and I know the other remaining survivor has background player. If I pick up, they get the stun, if not the survivor bleedouts. We're just waiting to see whether one of us grows bored first. I'm not sure why anyone would want that situation in a game.
What if the 3rd survivor still has hook stages and the 4th has the gate 99d and wants to wait for the hook to try and exchange because they have said perks?What about the same 2 man scenario but the chased player gets downed near the line? No heal tech? No body block to help them escape? They just die?Sure. We've moved the line that a survivor needs to get to to escape a few meters.
What if a player wants to crawl away with Tenacity and try for a hatch escape?Such a rare occurrence that I'd be fine with giving that up as a trade off.
What about killer perks to fairly play for the hatch? I can't use BBQ and Chilli or Friends to the End to find the 4th? Or get at least a head start while they hide from it?Yeah, those perks would be ever so slightly weaker.
This change always forces the killer to play hatch, which is the goal, but what aboit Adepts? You might not care about achievements, but plenty of people do, and this just makes killer adepts even harder…What percentage of total killer games ever played are for adepts? Probably well less than 1%.
Not to mention with your proposed version you have this weird scenario where the Mori isn't in the killers control... What if I as killer have a player DC cause they're a whiner and decide I want to play out my hook stages, kill anyone who wants to quit, but let anyone who doesn't also quit go for sticking it out?Killers letting survivors go is its own whole issue (something I do in the situation you describe). It allows MMR to be manipulated and throws off the stats that BHVR balances the game around. If that is common enough to worry about and this change would address that, its an overall positive.
What if I'm Huntress and get an orbital? What if they drop on the floor from failing to mend? Or use Plot Twist? Does the Entity just kill them remotely? Seems a bit weird.I think this is actually the biggest thing, how weird it would feel and break the game flow. I think that's a far bigger concern than most of the issues discussed.
Though most of these could be fixed by adding a 'when the third survivor is downed and the killer is or becomes within 8m' requirement.
Unless you want to impose a rule to only allow when the gates aren't powered, or an optional accept mori option, but at this point the rule is starting to become complex and confusing, because it doesn't really make sense anymore if we start throwing on a load of restrictions to account for many scenarios.I think the only relevant situation is gates being powered, and we already treat other things differently when gates are powered like AFC mechanic.
This doesn't sound like a very clean solution, and makes the whole interaction of third down messy and confusing...So as I mentioned above, my preferred solution would be rapidly increased bleedout, say 5 to 7 times the current rate, so a full health survivor has 34 to 48 seconds (and I'd put the rapidly increase to start when all survivors but 1 are down).
That said, I don't think it is really messy, you're just preferring the status quo design. Imagine that moring the 3rd downed survivor had always been in the game. Would we be having threads posted about how a survivor thought they could have gotten value out of Tenacity or killers wishing they could get value out of BBQ? Maybe on very rare occasions, but nothing like the rate at which people complain about slugging.
On the other hand, if we did instant third moris, I pretty confident there would be new players confused about why the Huntress auto teleports to a downed survivor.
I think a lot of mechanics are like that: such as hook grabs. I have a hard time remembering they ever existed (and when I do I remember it's how dull it felt), if hook grabs had never existed (which is true for anyone new coming into the game) I don't think anyone would feel like something is missing.
Aye a lot of what you're saying makes sense, but the issue I have is how many scenarios being killed off with this change. You don't just kill off slugging for the 4k, you also kill off legitimate slugging for the win.
Scenario 1: If there are 2 of us left, 4 gens repaired, last is at 90%. I have Unbreakable or Adrenaline, and I'm looping to buy time, but get downed.
On the current system, the killer is now in a quandry, they know they have a gen about to pop, they don't have time to hook me, and they don't know if I have Unbreakable or Adrenaline or not. If I do, then they have to hook me, or risk losing one of us. The killer has a decision to make, can they hook me and try to catch the other survivor before they make it to gate? Or do they leave me slugged and go for the other survivor?
On the new system, no decision to be made, no thought whatsoever, we kill off any notion of trying to catch the last survivor before they make gate.
Scenario 2: 2 survivors left, gate is powered, both are injured, and the gate is 50% powered.
On the current system, if the killer catches the first survivor, they have a chance to run to gate and stop the last survivor escaping. The correct play here is to slug, cause you don't have time to hook the other survivor.
On the new system, the killer literally can't stop 1 survivor escaping in this scenario… and it's not cause they aren't smart enough to recognise the situation, the game FORCES them to kill the 3rd survivor, so they are stuck in an animation and have to watch the 4th survivor complete the gate unable to interrupt.
This is awful, because any intelligent killer in our fantasy world with any agency of their own, would never sit killing 1 person, while another person opens the gate behind them.
There are numerous scenarios like this. You can say they're rare, and sure the slug for the 4k scenario is more common… but that doesn't make this irrelevant…. and this is awful. It reminds me of my irritation with Alien vs. Predator execution animations where you are not safe from damage. I as the alien caught someone, started executing them, and I wanted to do a quick stab through the chest and run back into the darkness before I get killed… but no… I'm trapped in a long ass animation mashing my sprint button, waving my damn tail in their face like an idiot, hoping it ends fast enough for me to get away which inevitably doesn't happen, and I die, and it's really annoying because I as an intelligent entity know that a slow drawn out kill right now is stupid…
It'd be the same problem here, I as Bubba wouldn't stand gyrating over a survivor I'm killing while the other steals my lunch… These scenarios to my mind are unacceptable. They don't make sense, rob me of my agency and hurt the game more overall with a stupid rule imposed on everyone because of a flaw in the design of hatch. I as the survivor would abuse the same, knowing the killer must kill one of us, he has to try and kill one of us while opening the gate, so he body blocks it for the other… so I just run to other gate in complete safety.
I almost always give hatch, I don't even take the finisher mori except for rare occasions… and I play more survivor than killer now, and even I'm sat here thinking this is awful from both survivor and killer perspective.
Bleedout route is far more sensible.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864401#Comment_3864401
We're basically making it mandatory for survivors to give up once 2 players are dead and go for hatch...
We don't understand how this becomes mandatory if the 3rd is insta moried. Its effectively the same if 2 are alive already with gens needing done, they can either both hide for hatch, both work on gens, 1 gen 1 hide, etc. Only now they effectively have 1 "hookstate" (more accurate to say 1 down but we like dramatic). No one needs to give up, its a slightly less chance that both make it out and removing some clutch plays while for killers its an inconvenience because they cant use a hook perk then and cant slug that 3rd survivor.
Now we may not particularly like this idea but at this point all routes should be looked at. Yes some killer challenges will get harder (no cheeper [({our opinion])} way for the adepts, …we don't actually see evil incarnate getting harder from any solution to slugging for 4k we've seen…)
If we may tweek your idea, once survivors bleed out bar is below half (they've been slugged for 2 minutes at least) and they're fully recovered then they bleed out faster with all your goodies. This prevents most the extreme cases of abuse from both sides that we can see and helps 4 man slugging a bit as well.
Well, to clarify:
We don't understand how this becomes mandatory if the 3rd is insta moried.
I didn't mean that player actually gives up, I mean by downing and auto executing the 3rd player, this suggestion forces the 3rd player to lose automatically, regardless of any other effects in the game, which has the same effect as if you're forcing them to give up… by forcing the 3rd player to die you're basically saying "well most players give up at this point, you've basically lost, so we're just gonna go ahead and make that decision for you and kill you".
I highlighted a whole bunch of ways this player can still escape, but there are still more, like Deliverance or Wicked, Adrenaline. No One Left Behind combined with Overcome or Dead Hard. The death of Unbreakable is really felt here... I literally have to use it before 2 players left, otherwise I just die.
By enforcing an instant 3rd player mori, great, you've solved slugging for the 4k... but in the process you've sacrificed so much and made the game a lot dumber... you've killed all of the ways a survivor player can clutch for their team... and not only have you have killed all the scenarios I've described, you kill all potential future ones as well.
As you say ideas should be explored... which is what I'm doing... and my conclusion following that exploration is that the suggestion to auto execute the 3rd survivor on down does far more to damage the game than slugging for the 4k does. You acknowledge you don't like it... I loathe the idea... I didn't at first, but the more I thought about it, the more problems I identified. It's a bad idea for more reasons yet than I've listed here... and I've listed a lot of them.
If we may tweek your idea, once survivors bleed out bar is below half (they've been slugged for 2 minutes at least) and they're fully recovered then they bleed out faster with all your goodies. This prevents most the extreme cases of abuse from both sides that we can see and helps 4 man slugging a bit as well.
Sure more restricted version. Though my only concern is likely this doesn't do enough to prevent the slug for 4k irritation. It's kinda taking 4 minutes down to 3 minutes, which I don't think addresses the primary concern.
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Let em cook...
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@Rulebreaker said:
While this is true, we're also aware theres not going to be a pretty solution. The main thorn that comes in dealing with slugging for the 4k is that its the players freedom and agency. To actually remove it in a way that will keep "resonables" happy (and we're using both terms loosely) isn't gonna be done without impacting them. Your ability to use bbq to find that last survivor is also another's ability to leave that 4th slugged. Things like this why any solution for this is either going to be brutally simple and restricting or heavily to complex.
That being said, we don't really have any solution we like, so pick a poison and chug.
Well, of the options presented, an instant mori on the third survivor being downed after 2 survivors are dead seems to come with the far greater negative of forcing the 3rd player to lose, even if they want to still try to win.
We're basically making it mandatory for survivors to give up once 2 players are dead and go for hatch... and I don't think that is a compromise I'd be willing to make... if a player wants to play and still try to survive, they should have the right to try, and this instant mori suggestion doesn't permit that... ergo it's an objectively bad suggestion that goes against the goal of the game.
If we're wanting to make it truly unbeneficial to slug for the 4k, the way to solve it would be allow a survivor to give up, but not force them to. If I were to take my old Desperation idea and jack it up:
After 2 other survivors are dead or dying and situation is at its most dire, unlock Desperation. When fully recovered to 95% or more in the dying state press the rush button to enter Desperation. While in Desperation: -
- You crawl 50% faster
- Make 50% more louder grunts of pain
- Bleedout 200% faster (3c/s or 70s from full bleedout (+30s to recover to 95%))
I used to have it at 150%, but if were trying to stop slugging hard, if you can bleed out in only a max of 100s, slugging for the 4k is far less profitable and a reasonable time to have to evade the killer. The killer is better off taking perks that activate off hooks to find the last survivor via aura reads rather than gamble on hatch... and the important difference here, is it's the survivors choice if they want to attempt to survive or not.
Now this comes with the obvious problems of players giving up, which is why the 2 other survivors condition is needed, and things like killer adepts and especially evil incarnate achievements/trophies starting to become quite near impossible, there is no realistic way to ensure you can catch all survivors even if you've effectively won the game, and some challeneges will also suck really hard as well for killer... to be honest it's pretty crap that the killer can't secure a 4k if they need to, and would make a lot of killer challenges awful... but that's the destination no matter what route we go in this thread.
However this is the route you need to go if you're gonna try and hamfist slugging for the 4k out of the game... You can't make it mandatory that a survivor has to give up. That is antithetical to the entire point of the game.
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Fundamentally it's use relies on you trusting your teammates to make good use of it... There is no point using it on a Bambi who goes down inside 10 seconds, and there is no point using it if the killer isn't tunneling.
You need a LOT of faith in the person you are shouldering the burden with that the risk of your own health state will be worth it.
Then there is the fact we're in the spineless era, where a lot of survivors give up far too soon. What this perk does is grant the survivor team time... but if they've already given up and started playing for hatch, you can buy them 5 minutes and it still doesn't matter.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864147#Comment_3864147
To be fair, retiring the hatch offerings is also on the table
@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864147#Comment_3864147
then just get rid of the hatch offering.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864285#Comment_3864285
I wouldn't mind a total reworking of the idea of how Offerings work, but being that is unlikely to happen -you could just delay the time it takes for the hatch to spawn if there was an instant mori on the third survivor.
Aye, fair...
Though as I've thought about it more, doesn't this start to add more problems? What if a player doesn't want to quit? Giving up when the 3rd player is downed is not an universal decision for all players. What about the scenario where 2 players are left, one is distracting as the other is opening the gate and goes down under a pallet nearby. You just force them to die?
Doesn't the instart mori on 3rd downed survivor guarantee its impossible to save or attempt to escape? No flashlights or flashbang attempts? No stall for Unbreakable? What if they've got Flip Flop and Power Struggle? WGLF and Made For This? What if I've used Breakdown and successfully made a Deadzone?
What if the 3rd survivor still has hook stages and the 4th has the gate 99d and wants to wait for the hook to try and exchange because they have said perks?
What about the same 2 man scenario but the chased player gets downed near the line? No heal tech? No body block to help them escape? They just die? What if a player wants to crawl away with Tenacity and try for a hatch escape?
What about killer perks to fairly play for the hatch? I can't use BBQ and Chilli or Friends to the End to find the 4th? Or get at least a head start while they hide from it?
This change always forces the killer to play hatch, which is the goal, but what aboit Adepts? You might not care about achievements, but plenty of people do, and this just makes killer adepts even harder…
Not to mention with your proposed version you have this weird scenario where the Mori isn't in the killers control... What if I as killer have a player DC cause they're a whiner and decide I want to play out my hook stages, kill anyone who wants to quit, but let anyone who doesn't also quit go for sticking it out? Once a second player SoHs, I can't get hook stages anymore and have to stop completely, can't give any flashlight or pallet saves since these players got screwed over by a dirt bag teammate? Soon as I down someone they just die?
What if I'm Huntress and get an orbital? What if they drop on the floor from failing to mend? Or use Plot Twist? Does the Entity just kill them remotely? Seems a bit weird.
Unless you want to impose a rule to only allow when the gates aren't powered, or an optional accept mori option, but at this point the rule is starting to become complex and confusing, because it doesn't really make sense anymore if we start throwing on a load of restrictions to account for many scenarios.
This doesn't sound like a very clean solution, and makes the whole interaction of third down messy and confusing...
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@fussy said:
I have 13 left and the only one I afraid of is where I need to escape against Vecna with hand/eye. I didn't play a lot when his chapter was released, and now I see him very rare and I never lucky enough. Build whole achievement on insane luck is so insanely stupid.
If it helps, one tip for this is make sure you clear chests. If you get an item, pick it out of the chest and put it on the floor. This ensures the item can refresh.
If you open 4 chests in a Vecna match, you have about a 18.5% chance of getting a Vecna item on one of them. If you open 5 it's 22.7% or so.
It's undeniably a little bit brutal, but it's not as unattainable as it first appears.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864147#Comment_3864147
To be fair, retiring the hatch offerings is also on the table
Fair point 😅
Though we are getting a little slim on usable offerings the longer the game goes on 😁
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
yeah Idk about all of that. I can understand being annoyed when both survivors are hiding in lockers when it’s a 1v2. At that point do your thing. But if it’s a normal game and it’s a 1v2 I’m not gonna blame survivors for “conceding” because the killer wants to avoid the hatch. Thats on the killer. They are the ones wasting time there.
My solution to “slug for the 4k” is just that when it’s a 1v2, the next survivor that gets downed gets moried automatically. No option. The killer gets their win and doesn’t get punished. No more bleedouts in that situation. And it helps end the match faster. Faster bleedout system would be the solution to when killers are 4 man slugging.Instant Mori on 3rd survivor down is not possible with Hatch offerings how they are. That's a guaranteed escape, cause Survivors just run away from the location of the hatch offering and the 4th gets out for free with no way for the killer to contest.
The only way you stop slugging for the 4k is you give the Killer Instinct on the 4th survivor when the 3rd survivor dies, then buff Sole Survivor to block this effect.
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@Skillfulstone said:
Honestly, except for Hand-Eye Coordination (which I luckily got in like 2 days after Vecna release since now it's ridiculously difficult due to low pickrate) the only achievement that is ridiculously unreasonable is Left for Dead. One of the only achievement I'm missing and will likely never get XD
How the hell is that supposed to happen nowadays except against merciful Killers (or streamers that one of your SWF friend managed to convince after getting killed and seeing their name)? In the old days hiding was easier (less info perks, bigger maps and Distortion still viable, not to mention EGC which made the achievement even harder by blocking gens if Killer closes Hatch) and Killers were weaker overall but I honestly don't think I'll ever get this achievement, at least not without setup or purposefully throwing the team under the metaphorical bus.
The others are usually either a matter of time and/or a bit of luck, with Hand-Eye Coordination being an exception, hopefully unique, thankfully.
Other than running Sole Survivor, Adrenaline and Low Profile then probably Wake Up every game and hoping your teammate doesn't get alugged for the 4k, yeah you're kinda screwed on that one...
I've got it twice, but only because the chance came up and I repaired the generator instead of looking for hatch... both times the killer found me, and I think they let me go out of sheer respect for the balls of repairing the generator xD
Even though I have it, honestly wouldn't be against the condition for the trophy being made a little more lenient in regards to being the person who repaired the last generator, opened the gate, and the escape itself was the only check for if all survivors are dead...
Being unable to repair the gen until your teammates are all dead... specifically having to wait out the sacrifice animation is brutal.
To be fair if a teammate could bleed themselves out faster, that would also make this one less painful.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Just because a killer isn't popular doesn't mean they are a problem or need a ton of changes.
Of the 5 killers on this list, the only ones who actually need big changes are SM (because her current power is very unhealthy for the game) and Freddy (because he feels weak and underwhelming). The others are mostly fine or only need smaller adjustments and/or an addon pass. I wouldn't mind Twins' slugging being addressed but only if they can find a way to do it that doesn't fundamentally change the killer or turn them into a powerhouse like they were on that one PTB, and I don't know if that's possible or not.
Fingers crossed BHVR are cooking for Freddy and Skull Merchant.
Main thing I want for Twins is something to encourage them to actually go for optimistic Victor pounces, instead of crawling up survivors legs before they finally jump.
Their current issue is they are punished pretty hard if they miss, and so have to play in a lame way, to which the only limiting factor used to be the 5s stun on hit for Victor and a 3s stun on a miss... which is now 3.2/3s I think without looking it up.
If you made it 5s for a point blank slug/terrain hit, and I dunno 1s for a max long range slug/terrain hit, the killer has a natural incentive to go for ambitious hits where they may hit terrain, where the survivor actually gets to try and juke, and Twins themselves get to have some actual fun with their power, bouncing Victor around like the ADHD spider monkey he is.
If he has that and the 3s for a landing in open space, you can still go for an ambitious hit, but for open space you fly past the survivor anyway, so likely recovery time is not likely to result in getting booted. This would actually be fun for Twins rather than trying to injure everyone and then just slugging everyone to death at point blank.
Personally, I would also like Victor having a longer respawn time, but Charlotte gets enraged at Victor getting hurt and gives a nasty gut wrenching global scream, and getting a buff for a brief time (like faster break action speed and 5% haste or something while he respawns?) with a new more aggressive running animation to make her more intimidating herself... she is supposed to be aggressively protective of Victor... I'd love some kinda effect for Charlotte to reflect this.
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@not_Queef said:
This is only on Ultra, as far as I'm aware. It's a post-processing effect, much like the awful bloom that you also get on Ultra.
You can disable it by navigating to:
C:\Users\[YOUR WINDOWS USERNAME]\AppData\Local\DeadByDaylight\Saved\Config\WindowsClient\GameUserSettings.ini
Then set sg.PostProcessQuality to 0, so it looks like this:
sg.PostProcessQuality=0
0 = Low, 1 = Medium, 2 = High, 3 = Ultra
Keep everything else on 3 or whatever setting you want.
(This is for Steam, it might be different for Epic, MS, etc. RIP console users)
Post processing is always the first thing to turn off in any game, especially motion blur.
It is inexcusable that DBD still only has the most basic graphics options in-game.
Good tip. Cool there is a workaround.
It's funny cause although I've studied game development and post processing effects in depth (I even used testing them in a game engine as my dissertation for uni), I've always had a personal beef with depth of field specifically.
To my mind it doesn't make sense... your eyes focus on whatever you are looking at... so by adding depth of field, you make it so if I look at anything other than where the developer thinks I'm looking... it looks blurry, which isn't how my eyes work... your effect now makes my eyes behave less like how they should than it did before... xD
Motion Blur I always felt takes a fraction too long to go away. It's somwthimg I mostly ignore and am indifferent too, but it is noticable, and to my mind the effect is also slightly less convincing that just speedy thing in my vision that my brain blurs on its own...
So I've never really saw the point of these effects... turn them off for teh extra performance xD
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863758#Comment_3863758
From what Ive seen, people just use Nurse, send themselves to RPD or Ormand, and just constantly fall of ledge and teleport back up to the top. You can easily get 100-200 meters per game, just make sure to bring passive slowdown like Corrupt, Deadlock, etc.
I just havent gone out of my way to do it since I rather clip away at other achievements and get it passively.
Yeah... I'm in agreement with you, I don't see the point of a trophy if you cheese it.
Like if its really dumb, and one you literally have to throw games constantly to try and acheive, then sure, pull out all stops... but if you can perfectly reasonably attain by (relatively) normal play, I don't see the point.
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Deadly plunge is denying me my 100%, I've learned that apparently on average I fall approxinately 10 meters a game... each game I go up by maybe 1%
I'm at about 63% currently, and gettimg there slowly, but getting on for 100 games is a little rough xD
Keep the fight going brother! 😅
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Because the game is built for 4vs1, not 3 and a bot vs 1. It doesn't function as intended without 4 players on survivor side, and by queuing for a DBD match, there is an implied commitment to play that match, same as if you signed up for a game of sunday football at the pits, the game is reliant on your participation to function.
Bots are there to somewhat mitigate the issue of someone leaving in the event of genuine unexpected real life events. If Gamers could all be trusted to only use DCs for this purpose, then removing the penalty would be fine.
Unfortunately, gamers cant be trusted. There are far, far, far too many people who will DC because they are childish brats who don't respect the above commitment. In real life their behaviour would come with a healthy dose of shame, and repeat offenders would be appropriately shunned by the community, but behind the safety of their computer screen where such things are not possible, a DC penalty has to suffice...
In my opinion, BHVR are far too lenient with DC and SoH players, and the only reason I begrudgingly accept it and don't advocate for harsher penalties, is there would cases where an innocent person with a dodgy Internet connection would be unavoidably caught in the crossfire.
Regardless, players who DC/SoH should be ashamed of themselves, and should absolutely not be encouraged to continue to ruin other people's games with their selfish behaviour unpunished.
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@angel_pellegrino said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435572/what-power-would-jason-voorhees-have
There's a mechanic in Five Nights At Freddy's Security Breach that I think would work pretty well for Jason. The exo skeletons in that game move a million times faster if you aren't looking at them. So you have to adapt this playstyle of always looking over your shoulder to stop them from coming after you. The devs could give Jason a haste status effect if you aren't looking at him or if you mainly look forward in chase.
Another idea would be to have his mother's head aid him in killing survivors. I'm thinking that you can place her head around the map and she will alert you to any activity in that area.
Now that's a cool ability.
I like the fact it's a decent map traversal tool that feels right on Jason, cause he isn't a lumbering slow moving menace like Myers, he's actually quite nimble and tends to move/chase at a decent clique... it also has a Whispers like 6th sense to it, where he knows when a survivor can see him, so gives him a light detection ability... which is also pretty lore accurate.
I wanted something like for Myers, but my suggestion was make it based on if a Survivor was within 32m instead of line of sight, but either could work. It makes just as much sense on Jason, and since it doesn't look like Myers will get this, it's an idea I would love on Jason instead.
Good shout that man!
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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's always great to see non-clickbait xD
Steve, probably.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863210#Comment_3863210
I can answer that… a spent facehugger carcass.
There ya go.
Hmm… it's not particularly subtle... kinda on the nose.
Most offerings hint at the realm/the respective killers map with an innocuous item tied to their lore. Some good examples are: -
- Heart Locket for Thompson Farm. Engraved with E+M for Evelyn and Max Thompson Sr.
- Charred Wedding Photo for Crotus Penn Asylum. The faces of the couple are burned away, likely depicting Sally Smithson and her late husband Andrew.
- Azarov's Key for Autohaven Wreckers. A bent key hinting at the execution method used by the owner at the expense of Philip Ojomo.
Not every example is good, some are a little bland, like the broken bottle for Dead Dawg Saloon, or they face smash you a bit like the MacMillan Phalanx Bone for MacMillan Estate, but to my mind an offering should be something that you'd almost dismiss, say for some innocuous detail that makes it relevant.
I feel something like Severed Specimen Tail with a Sample ID and Patient Number. That would be a little more in the spirit if we're to go the Facehugger carcass route.... you could then have a little lore snippet about how it was attained, maybe mention a victim and hint at the machinations of the Weyland-Yuntani Corporation.
Does that make sense?
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Surpisingly, a lot of cool ideas for builds here... My favourite Stake Out build is: -
- an Engineers Toolbox with Wire Spool and the Cloth that blocks skillchecks.
- Stake Out
- Scavenger
- Streetwise
- Autodidact
You save all Stake Out stacks for gett ing the toolbox back, and you use the fast repair speed of the Purple toolbox to start getting your stacks on Scavenger back sooner. I've managed to ensure I almost always get at least 2 full toolbox uses every game with this build... sometimes 3.
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@SoGo said:
No idea. I don't like it.
And also, how is Airlock Doors an offering? Did we forget about the lore? Weren't offerings supposed to be small and easy to burn/throw into a fire?
How the hell are you going to yeet a door into a fire? Makes no sense.
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858355#Comment_3858355
Cuts to a scene where everyone is throwing small offerings into the fire, when Meg suddenly yeets a comically large door.
As hilarious as this scene is in my brain... what would be an appropriate offering?
I've been trying to find a lore accurate offering one could add, but finding something small that is actually a good lore accurate fit is quite hard...
Like a cryopod refill capsule would be perfect, but can't find a actual reference to it... containment life support tube maybe?
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857472#Comment_3857472
I play killer all the time too, and I agree teabagging at the gate is annoying. But it's not even on the same level as having someone slug for 4k then have the ability to force the survivor to watch while they show off after they made the survivor bleed for several minutes. It's like the goal was just to add toxicity to the game.
Both are problems, and the answer isn't to add more of the same.
Also, thanks for calling me names :)
I think your issue lies with slugging for the 4k tbh man... with regards to the Finisher Mori, it might actually be worth exercising some CBT, which is an exercise where in instead of thinking of the worst case scenario, try and think of alternative less destructive thought patterns/explanations.
The Finisher Mori is no different to how Moris were before... unless you held the stance that all Mori's were players gloating, the reality is most horror fans consider the Mori's a cool way to cap off the game, something unique to their killer of choice.
When I get caught as the last survivor, I genuinely think to myself "oh well, at least I get to see the Mori". For me the Finisher Mori actually softens the sting of getting slugged for the 4k, cause we have enough killers now where I still enjoy seeing them occasionally.
The act of slugging for the 4k is action that has far more personal attack to it, as its the killer is literally saying "screw you, sit trapped on the floor while I find your friend". Even if we apply CBT and think this is not done maliciously, e.g its done cause this is the only way to ensure not getting screwed by hatch RNG, its still done with the knowledge its a lame way to secure a 4k, and a very unfun action against the affected player. When I have a challenge to do or an adept, I too slug for the 4k... and I apologise out loud as I do it, because I know it sucks, but its better to play mean once, slug for the 4k and get if over with, than have to keep playing mean every game until the stars align and you get it done.
It's the same thing as saying GG first when you're the winning side. When tempers are flaring and emotions are high, it's easy to take it the wrong way and see it as toxic behaviour... and it can be toxic behaviour... but when you really think about it, majority of ggs aren't toxic, and neither are most finisher moris.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3862747#Comment_3862747
Basically, all the tweak is is that if you have your 3 protection hits, and you were healthy and got hit by a chainsaw for example, MoM would work and you would become injured but would not be put into the dying state, similar to how the endurance status effect works.
With current MoM, if this happens you actually go down even if you have your 3 protection hits, the shield hit specifically only works while you are injured and can protect from double damage while injured but not while healthy which is really weird imo.
It wouldn't let you use the perk multiple times in a row or anything, just makes it a little more consistent
Sorry if I'm being dense...
Basically, all the tweak is is that if you have your 3 protection hits, and you were healthy and got hit by a chainsaw for example, MoM would work and you would become injured but would not be put into the dying state, similar to how the endurance status effect works.
Is this referring to the OPs post, or your post?
Yours makes sense, 100% agree with yours... I'm trying to work out what the OP means... 😅
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@jasonq500 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860529#Comment_3860529
I do see that the duration definitely has more utility, but I vastly prefer speed for fun factor, not really a fan of killers feeling slow no matter how much you get used to in my opinion
That's fair, and I am a console player myself so these changes are a lot nicer for people like me... but obviously that's just one perspective, I can see how for experienced PC players Chucky players this would be a negative change.
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Not sure I understand what the tweak is…
I would guess as long as you don't get downed you can keep healing up and take another hit?
It does need something with such a punishing activation condition I don't think it needs the restrictions it has.
@sizzlingmario4 said:
I agree. I've always found it silly that Mettle of Man specifically only protects you from being downed if you're injured and doesn't work while healthy against Exposed/other double-damage attacks, especially considering Endurance does protect you in those situations (in that situation you become injured and deep wounded but don't go down).
Mettle of Man definitely should be changed to work while healthy against double damage, just have it put you in the injured state but not down you
Pretty solid argument I feel.
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I've never understood why Unknown gets to be 115%, a ranged attack you don't even need to directly hit to get the hit
Ummm...because he can't get a direct hit?
Unknown must hit terrain near a survivor, with a slow, highly telegraphed, generally easy to predict projectile and it is much easier to force him to miss at long range cause you can legitimately run at him to deny a hit with his ability, which is not true of Slinger or Huntress. If his m1s weren't viable (which would be the case if he were 4.4) he'd have to rely a lot more m2's, and his UVX isn't even close to other ranged killers in lethality.
In total he would need 4 hits on a 7 second cooldown each attempt to get a down with just his m2s, where if he misses he has to basically score another hit again before he can injure/down. This is just not comparable to the 1/2s windup/reload of Huntress and Slinger, who to remind you can immediately injure/down you in only 2 hits.
As long as you have safety from M1s, he has a somewhat tricky shot just to mark you if you're out in the open or behind a pallet... and he still has to get another hit with it to get anything; a shot which he also has to rush, as he can't hold it like Slinger and Huntress because you are always removing the weakened effect and putting him on a time limit...
The comparison of the m2 abilities between these 3 killers isn't even close my guy... Unknown falls WELL short if he were made a 4.4 killer.
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@radiantHero23 said:
Happy holidays everyone. May we all get some peace of mind. ❄️
Hahahahaha, peace of mind xD
To share a story... This reminds me of my first D&D character, who was naive yet kind hearted monk, but also a half elf who didn't really get recieved well in society... and lacking the charisma to overcome the stigma his race often endured...
My party were a bunch of... well… murder hobos basically...
- a self agrandising dwarf trying to escape from under his heroic brothers name via any means
- a warlock tiefling obsessed with knowledge with a particularly unhealthy interest in human dissection/experimentation
- a wizard always greedy for gold, and willing to commit any number of atrocities he could get away with to gain more
- a zealoted paladin constantly being manipulated and tricked by the other 3, and regularly bringing divine vengeance on any he believed strayed from the path as their fast talking him directed
- a no necked gnome cleric who was the very embodiment of chaos, who lived to cause mayhem wherever he went, no matter the consequences
The horrors my monk witnessed throughout that time turned him into a half-broken shell of a man, trying and unable to resolve or even fully comprehend the morality and death he witnessed while in that party...
One of these adventures ended up meeting Snata, a mystical being who distributed gifts to each member of the party in exchange for saving him from a huge raider attack...
The gift awarded to my Monk's was "peace of mind"... the gift of quelling his anxious thoughts, removing the sustained trauma, and a reprieve from the guilt wracking his addled mind... I can't help but feel this was perhaps the greatest gift of all time xD
Hope you're enjoying the holidays everyone! A pre-emptive Happy New Year 😁
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@Dustin said:
I would imagine he would have a rage ability and some sort of ability to throw both pallets and survivors using both as weapons. I would say environmental executions because realistically the only real interesting thing about Jason is how many ways he's killed people before.
That's the idea I like. Environment interaction I feel is where Jason's power has to lie, because he is a very versatile and creative killer without a specific/standard MO.
He obviously has his machete as his iconic weapon of choice, but his actual number of kills with a machete is surprisingly low... he basically uses anything he can get his hands on to great effect; his kill list is extremely varied, so an environment killer is where he lies to my mind. While you couldn't make his power just this, Jason slamming a pallet on a survivor is the most Jason thing I can think of in DBD...
Thus I'd consider a stealth killer with a grab like ability, like a Myers extended lunge that can then pick up a survivor and break things with the survivor, like gens, lockers, even unused pallets for additional affects, e.g. instadown or broken or whatever. You have to give him something else do he doesn't get bodied like Myers, a rage power sounds like you could do some stuff, like endure/break pallets, but you obviously have to be careful with such a power it doesn't become stupidly dumb... but that kind of rage mechanic is where I feel Jason finds a place.
I wouldn't want his teleport from the Ft13th game though... like Myers he is never expressly shown to teleport in the movies, it's portrayed as an uncanny ability to read/predict his victims movements and an uncanny level of stealthy yet fast movement. There have been times his catching up can only be explained as a teleport... but that is bad writing to my mind, and giving him a teleport in DBD is a cheat.
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I find this visual reference for various breakpoints of distance very useful.
16m doesnt look far off Ormond entrance to main gen, maybe 14m or so?
Perhaps he had something like PWYFstacked up, or some other haste buff that made his TR seem smaller?
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861013#Comment_3861013
I didn't say what I said without thinking about everything that you mentioned. BHVR can handle their business any way they choose to. People absolutely deserve time off. I have no problem with them taking as much time off as they want to over the holidays. But if you are running a live service game, especially during a limited-time holiday event, then you also need to be willing to put in the resources needed to fix things that are broken. If you decide not to do that, then don't be surprised when your paying customers become impatient and upset. Running a business is always a balance between keeping your customers happy and keeping your employees happy. Lots of businesses (and their employees) have to make sacrifices to keep their customers satisfied, especially during holiday periods. This is not just some unique demand on the gaming industry. I work in the chemical industry where we have to ship product out the door to our customers every day, including during the holidays. We could choose to shut down for a couple weeks too, but would then have to deal with the consequences of negative customer experience.
I do understand what you're saying, and one of the things that amuses me about my career and games programming, is it is all a luxury... my line work is entirely unnecessary. If games and games studios all got wiped off the earth, humanity is still fine (arguably better off).
My Uncle was a chemist, and a line of work like yours is vital to all of societal infrastructure. People often underestimate how important chemist's and chemistry are to pretty much every facet of our lives...
The point I'm trying to make is, people seem to have this idea that game development isn't that hard. A lot of people can write code, are competent PC users, and think programming isn't much more than that. You can find the answer to anything on stack overflow is a lot of peoples opinion. I'm a Software Development QA Engineer, and I develop automated test systems game development tools and libraries.... and my whole career is built on the fact... it is bloody hard to do it right. The word Engineering is chosen for a specific reason... like building a bridge, the results can be catastrophic if you do it wrong, especially programming something like a radiotherapy machine or whatever.
The thing is game development is on a weird island that is this wild west separate from the same rules as everything else in the software world. Imagine in your chemical production conpany having to build the infrastructure, logistics and mechanisms to produce a brand new chemical every 3 months... where you have to rejig and rebuild several other processes in your current set up to accomodate it. I don't work in that industry, so I don't know, but I would imagine that would pretty hard, and unrealistic... but it must be done, you can't not do it, you have to accomodate it somehow.
Every other form of software engineering tends to have a rather slow and careful development time/release schedule. Test thoroughly, don't release until its ready, about 40% of ypur dev budget goes to tesing alone. However this is the games industry, you've got this code base that is ever evolving, hopefully built well to support it easily, but it's insane huge in scope. I understand software development testing quite intimately... and I can tell you, games software engineering is the most ridiculous form of software engineering I know. Even building a compiler, the baseline for writing code in a language, isn't as insane... because a compiler has set rules and goals it must perform, it's tested rigorously and it doesn't go out until it's ready... the games industry doesn't work that way... it has to go out when it goes out, because that's what the customers (us) demand.
There is so much money on the line and at stake, you can't delay anything... you HAVE to ship it, whether its ready or not or start losing huge amounts of money... It is very common in even major gaming studios to say "This we believe is a major breaking issue, so that we would recommend not releasing in its current state"... but you still have to release it because the damage and cost from it releasing it, outweighs the fallout from releasing it in a broken state... and that statement right there should hopefully speak volumes of how insane this industry is. Think about it... It is actually less costly to piss off your customers with half functional broken features, than it is to hold that feature back and delay releases, causing lost revenue and greater expenses.
I knew what being a game developer was when I finished Uni... I had the ability and knoeledge to work as a games developer, it was originally my dream... and I noped outta that line of work hard after I found something I was much better at... I still get to play the role of a game developer, but I'm adjacent to rather than in that role, and I have massive respect for anyone who is... cause it's the most thankless and unforgiving line of work I know.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860621#Comment_3860621
Hard tunneling is a player choice, not something that can be limited by making the power better
Not always. sometimes the player is doing a behaviour because they get punished if they don't do that behaviour. that is the case for clown. he doesn't down fast enough to spread hooks. he needs pinky finger to down fast enough. that was the change that happened like 5-6 months ago for clown. they nerfed his ability to play for hooks by nerfing lethality and made him more tunnel-focused by buffing his 1vs1 chase.
All making the exposed hits viable again on Clown does is make tunneling even easier, because players can't even body block and just get slugged.
Not necessarily, if my chases take less time, i am more likely to leave hooks and chase other survivors away from hook because i am more confident in my ability to get a down faster than waiting for survivor to go for unhook. Instant down only makes you better at defending hooks/camping but people often simulate defending hooks with tunneling because of the camping → tunnelling people off hook scenario. instant down is nasty in unhook scenario's but giving killer instant down as reward to move away from hook is one way to get killer to go away from hooks, pinky finger kinda achieved that before, but issue with old clown was that his 1vs1/yellow bottles were very weak so people used it for camping because clown was weak at 1vs1 chase prior to the change.
Aye, the problem is we're both right...
lts a double edged sword... you can't really make a killer strong enough to not tunnel, without also making them strong enough to tunnel. Clown is a god tier unhook interrupter with with old pinky finger... kinda hard to stop that
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Mistle Toes are busted and won't be fixed because everyone is on vacation for the next 2 weeks. But they want us to vote for the game for the Labor of Love award.
I apologise I'm jumping on you, I've got no beef with you personally but I've read a few posts like this and your comment here is the one that has struck the nerve one too many times...
Think about what you just said... you are actually proposing that BHVR should make their employees work through the holidays? You believe that award is not deserved cause they don't?
I guess the amount of content BHVR churn out for us ingrates on such a demanding deadline counts for sod all.
This right here is why only people who truly love programming should go into game development and why I never did after I got my degree, and I got a very good degree.
Customer demand/expectation in gaming is ignorant at best and insanely entitled at worst. Ridiculous man hours, job security is non existent, high staff turnover, incredible ease of a studio getting shut down any moment, relatively low income for that line of work, incredibly complex and challenging work that takes a huge toll on your personal life, health and relationships... and all while everyone calls you lazy, undeserving, useless and greedy to boot. It is like all the problems of retail but cranked up to 11.
I have seen this attitude in every game community I've ever been a part of... and game devs have always out of necessity had to just take it, cause we've seen what happens when devs answer back... they get labelled as egotists who "are out of touch with their fan base" and can caused the afformentioned game review bomb and/or studio shutdown.
I have many friends who are in the thick of it. They are exceptionally talented people who work their butt off trying to swim in this crazy industry, and am aware of exactly what great things they achieved that didn't produce the respect and rewards in the gaming market it deserved. It's kinda a horror show to watch at times.
Again, I'm sorry it's you I've bitten the head off, but it's so frustrating to constantly keep reading how ungrateful and ignorant people are when it comes to game development.
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@hxp said:
I have an idea: change the target kill rate to 50%. That would be fair!
Actually it wouldn't be, because in order for it to be a 50% kill rate, that means the survivors open the gate 60% of the time, if we assume all 3k are hatch/gate after hatch escapes and all 4ks are with the gates unpowered (which lets face it vast majority of them are).
That means the killer has failed to hold gens and survivors have completed their objective at least 60% of the time… so the killer is losing on a 50% killrate 60% of the time. At least if you subscribe to the idea that kills != skill.
Now to be completely fair, this does come at the expense of survivor side individual survivor rates, amplified by the fact that if 2 survivors survive, you have a 50% chance of being one of those 2.
However I would argue the low individual survival rate is what makes survivor so engaging to play.
Now I know that sounds like killer main talk, but I actually play survivor about 60%-70% of my game time nowadays... and let me ask you this... how often do you see survivors bringing full meta in the average lobby? If survivors surviving is what is required for DBD to be fun, why do very few people bring full Commodius Toolboxes with BNPs and/or charge addons in your average lobby? I would argue it's because easily surviving without much effort is boring.
If you dont take full meta as survivors, you are categorically the underdog as a individual survivor, and I for one don't really enjoy the game when I'm absolutely saucing a killer who has no real power to answer. The killer is meant to be a scary entity that I fear, and if they are strong I'm still tense, even when doing mundane things like gens. The idea of escaping is built upon the idea of cheating death...and Death has to be a common occurrance in order for that satisfaction to exist.
Yes getting excessively slugged, tunneled, camped is annoying, but I accept these as possibilities and always try to ensure it's punishing for the killer to do them. This is what makes survivor stimulating for me, my actual survival doesn't really matter.
My goal every game is get the gate powered and open. Whoever gets out of those gates at that point is kinda immaterial. This is why we all go for saves to get the 4 man escape at end game. We could call it a win for survivors if 3 of us just leave and let the 4th die, but we don't, we always come back for the save, because cheating death is what makes DBD fun. If we are all getting out more commonly, then surviving the trial becomes more of a "going through the motions" thing... and I for one think that hurts DBD overall.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
lots of poorly thought out nerfs.
reducing clown bottle count will furder penalize the killer for using yellow bottles. furthermore, the glove add-on radicially changes how clown is played from lopping grenade to a forward launcher. encourages purple only play-style is also strange.
xenomorph charge time is his most defining quality and should not be changed. He'd lose something that makes him special.
singularity losing infection every time they use a cannon is free emps. being punished for using a power is not good design choice. less lazy, use emps.
legion spends great time sink into using his ability as he runs around the map. the last thing that legion needs is survivors doing gens while he does that. deep wound sort of counter-balances the wasted time running around stabbing making interaction net neutral while enforcing his stay injured play-style. i don't think healing perk should be outpacing his injury capacity and deep wound sort of keeps that in check on average.
nemesis linger hitbox is skill enhance mechanic to make him harder to play. removing this would make nemesis tentacle strike a risk to use even when survivor is in deadzone and for how his tentacle strike works, it is structured in such a way that you can replace ur m1 with m2 entirely if your good enough at him. i don't think using his tentacle strike should be worse play then using his m1. the alternative is them making his tentacle strike bigger then huntress hatchets but that makes less skillful play.
Also remove the dark edges around survivors camera in Nightfall, but Dredge no longer gets hightlighted.
big no. i think purpose behind that was an early attempt to fix people that use Reshade or these hacking-type graphic tools for when dredge was created. it is also there to try set a standard in term of vision loss so that all player roughly experience the same amount of vision loss. spamming max brightness shouldn't nerf the killer for free.
there are many attempts to buff killers but they're often wrong changes with convoluted goals. for example. clown getting higher reward on pink usage could be acheived by having slightly higher intoxic duration such as 2.5 →3.5 seconds. Instead of punishing clown furhter for using his power which is added time sink reloading for killer, it would be better if clown had a mechanic where he reloads all his bottles after successfully putting a survivor in dying state. The shoulder of burden change really hurts clown as he requires tunneling and quick elimination of survivors to have any map presence. the developers already invented a good mechanic for direct hit on clown. exposed. Reverting his pinky finger to not have bottle penaltys should be considered so that clown be balanced around spread hooking/12 hooking as his chase is still a little on low side for hook spreading.
The other killers on the list likely need positive changes as well but i don't think OP post changes are the right ones.
Solid, agree with most.
The only thing I disagree on is Clown and Pinky Finger. Hard tunneling is a player choice, not something that can be limited by making the power better. Blight, Nurse, Billy, Spirit are all strong and have the map presense and lethality where they don't need to tunnel and chew through OTR and DS and alike, yet a lot of them do, and are among the best tunnelers in the game. All making the exposed hits viable again on Clown does is make tunneling even easier, because players can't even body block and just get slugged.
Clown couldn't be buffed for years solely because every single buff came with the question "what about Pinky Finger?"... in the same way Myers couldn't be buffed because every buff came with the question "what about Tombstone Piece?"
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At the risk of riling people up... I don't think the changes to his dash are actually a bad set of changes... his S&D distance is pretty insane now, and where it is slower, it is easier to control, especially for a controller player... and I always support any change that bridges the PC/controller gap.
One thing I really like is the duration and slower speed makes it easier to control your dash after you scamper... this means scampering during slice and dice actually feels more viable as a legitimate mind game, rather than how it was before, where it was stupid to even try… while it isn't his old scamper, this actually hits a nice middle ground, that makes it an actual part of his kit, and makes Chucky feel a little more unique again.
Now all that said... the 14s cooldown is UNDENIABLY a nerf... but I think that's the part that is actually hitting people the hardest.
His new S&D when people get used to it I think is almost fine. Obviously I'm a scrub Chucky so hard for me to assess, but I went looking it up to see if anyone else had put any work in on Chucky, and it looks like Hens found pretty much the same thing, though he also reckons the acceleration could be improved a little to get up to that speed… but these changes aren't as dire as people seem to be making them out to be... a lot of the mind gamable hits remain the same and he feels easier to control to me.
I 've clipped his summary to avoid the 51 min video, but it's an interesting watch throughout to get the full context.
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@GeneralV said:
I give up and go play survivor.
Meanwhile, the survivor experience:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CGJK8T2JKOR1/image.png
Awesome event.
Quite honestly my average event experience is I've had 1 survivor always throwing the game hard every single match... either by memeing to an absurd degree or throwing tantrums and SoH immediately for literally nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I like to meme around too, but I still like to actually play the game a little... when every game isn't even being played right from minute one, I have to ask what the point of queuing up even is...
Snowballs are always fun though, and getting Zombied by Snowmen has had some hilarious moments. I even got a bonded jump scare on someone as Pig... and a survivor jump scared me as well.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i think main purpose of the perk is to just guaranteed 4k's in the end game. if your last survivor alive or your slugging 3k into 4k, whisper is best perk to guaranteed said 4k. it's also one only ways to fix end game for killer where survivor hide 24/7 for virtually an hour if they wish.
almost doesn't feel like it should be perk. it should be like base-kit or something in the end game. i rather have this mechanic instead of hatching closing.
I'd say that's part of the perk sure. It's a good effect, although is it really valuable enough to take? It's great when it works yes, but it's rough when it don't.
Its funny you mention it feels like it should be basekit, cause when you think about it, it's basically a survivor terror radius for the killer side.
This is pretty cool, it's one real problem is hooked survivors counting as well, which makes the perk fiddly to use throughout the trial, since you have to clear the hook to start using it again.
The downing a survivor part of my suggestion would just be a nicety to aid against save attempts, but it's not necessary, but having a temporary hook exclusion would be great for the general usability of the perk.
You could of course exclude hooks completely of course. With hook timers how they are it's not going to make any survivors worth their salt sweat about the increased effectively camp hooks... but soloQ might nit be too impressed... so a temporary shut off just for hooks alone would be how I would go improving it.
Elevations would also be nice to handle, but it can get very annoying in a map like Midwich where it's constantly on and you can't work out anything 🙄
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Very much deserved! You guys have always been such positive entities in these forums, it's always been a joy conversing with you and reading your posts...
Wait a minute... Entities!?? Now it makes sense... Seriously though congrats!
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435315/seasons-greetings-from-the-fog
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859614#Comment_3859614
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RBDXCHQGRNCM/tmp.gif
I am beyond myself with gratitude. 💐💐💐
Sincerely, I love horror. I love this game. And I love this community. I’ve always found a home in the horror genre- I’m sure many of us can relate. For one reason or another we are all here enjoying this game together.
@TheSingularity (pre and post 😊)
@C3Tooth We all miss you
@CountOfTheFog 😊😄💐
@Shroompy 😊😄💐
+ Everyone else I didn’t list!!! 💐💐💐
I’m a huge fan of being the change you want to see. The above people have demonstrated a willingness to be that change while remaining their authentic selves. I see Dbd reflected in every single person listed and on this forum. These people will give you the best that they have to offer. Why not match that passion and be the change you want the dbd community to become? Why not? It can happen. They can help you get there.
I wanted to thank @For_The_People for being the first person from the forums that I’ve ever played Dbd with. He is a very sweet person who will give you his time of day in earnest if you need him to. He’s one of the prime examples of politeness in this community. Thank you for being a positive force in the community. 😊😊😊
Lastly I need to thank @solarjin1 . What can I say? When you meet a friend that gets you, you both just know it. Her courage to be funny and humorous are so infectious. She told me that the small pallet in rpd was the most op pallet. I was so naive of game knowledge that I believed her! LMAO! After that I realized that it was anything goes when it came to humor with her. I’m at my best when I can be silly. Solarjin1 is that friend who brings out the best in me. Thank you Solarjin1 for all the laughs and for the laughs to come 😂 I’m going to be collecting🤣🤣🤣
None of this would be possible if we didn’t have a phenomenal community team here to support us discussing this twisted hobby we all have. Thank you again to everyone at Bhvr for putting your hearts and souls (ha!) into everything that is Dbd.
They say you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar…
Let’s just use blood instead 🩸😈🩸
Happy Holidays everyone, I hope everyone stays safe and has a wonderful New Years 😊🎉
@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435315/seasons-greetings-from-the-fog
Completely agree and congrats you guys! But I really think @UndeddJester should be 4th, he did a lot of great posts with suggestions, thought and reflections.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859727#Comment_3859727
Glad to be in this list, thank you for the kind words! It's mutual! <3
*kicks floor * Shucks... thank you... appreciate that very much, all warm and fuzzy over here. ☺️
It's been a joy being a part of this community, even if I am a Skull Merchant baby (May 2023!). There are some truly brilliant and talented minds to debate and learn from in these forums, and its great to see the passion people still have for this crazy little horror showcase tag game 🤘😁🤘
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, and much love all! Raising a glass your way! 🥳🥳🥳
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I think the perk is fine, its main issue was the condition, which has been removed. It does it's job perfectly well, and I think adding the extra 50% doesn't really make a difference unless you're trying to make a SWF bully combo.
- Normal at 1c/s is a 16s pick-up
- 2c/s gives an 8s pick-up.
- 2.5c/s gives a 6.4s pick-up.
- 3c/s gives a 5.33s pick-up.
- 3.5c/s gives a 4.57s pick-up.
It's diminishing returns the more % you add on it, and the most common case for normal play is gonna be trying to heal while the killer is actually slugging and not immediately present to interrupt, and that doesn't really change whether it's 100 or 150%. You only need the survivor at about 65% recovery when the killer hits you and you can absolutely heal in the killers face with MFT. If the survivor manages to recover to 95% before you start, then you're just laughing cause you can pick up in 0.4s with basekit WGLF, which is certainly doable while chased.
The only feasible reason to make it 150% I can see is if trying to bully the killer under pallets. It doesn't work for picking up under the killers nose, like FTP/BU did, but it does help a SWF coordinating and harassing the killer from picking up and then putting them in lose/lose scenarios.
When pushed to its limits in the current state with perk combos I believe the fastest it can achieve is:
- WGLF +100% (8s)
- Botany Knowledge +50% (6.4s)
- We'll Make It proc +100% (4.57s)
- 4 stacked Desperate Measures +56% (3.94s)
- Affected by Leader +25% (3.71s)
- Affected by CoH +100% (3.01s)
- Affected by Dying Light +33% (2.84s)
You obviously need a slot for MFT, and you can see this needs heavy investment to start getting to problematic realms, to the point it can't without the investment. Bullying this way is quite hard, and it's certainly impossible to heal under the killers nose.
So at best you're maybe looking at WGLF, BK, WMI and MFT with maybe a COH proc. That gives you a total of 2.5c/s (6.4s) in most scenarios, and between 3.5c/s (4.57s) and 4.5c/s(3.55s) in the ideal scenarios. So the only way this becomes feasible is if multiple players swarm the killer and distract around pallets while players recover in between.
Bumping WGLF to 150% wouldn't change this, but with just Botany we're now rocking 5.33s to pick up with a not throw build... not that it can't possibly be handled, but this facilitates being quite obnoxious, especially for an m1 killer.
So overall the buff wouldn't do much for players not trying to abuse it, and for players trying to abuse it in bully SWFs, the buff makes it easier to coordinate their bully tactics.
So I don't think it's at all a bad thing it was nerfed from 150%.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858862#Comment_3858862
Thanks for your needlessly sarcastic response that added nothing whatsoever to the discussion. I have no idea why some people think the community is so toxic.
Is there a point you're trying to make here?
Um wut? Sarcastic response? I believe I was agreeing with you?
The OP was claiming that the player count is plummeting, your post contradicts that with evidence showing that the player numbers remains consistent.
I then pointed out that October and November 2024 player numbers are about 38000-39000, while the 2023 and 2022 players numbers for October and November were about 31000-33000... this actually shows the player base is growing, not plummeting... In fact if you look at most of the months, 2024 typically has done better that the last couple of years with only a few notable exceptions...
I don't believe I stated anything sarcastic... I merely made a factual observation... I think you might have read into something that wasn't there my dude... 😶
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
The peak was July 2021 at 105K players, and I believe that was due to the Resident Evil chapter that brought in a ton of players who only wanted to play for that new content. You need to look at the long-term average and not based the popularity of the game on one-time outliers. Certain special events and new chapters always bring in a large influx of players that don't stick around. The player count is higher than Dec. 2023 and about the same as Dec. 2022. The game is doing fine.
Oh cool, DBD is up this year for October/November over 2022 and 2023.
Neat.
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Wouldn't be an awful suggestion to be fair.
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What they tried to do with Houndmaster was quite ambitious tbh. Have a permanently active second character follow around the killer, with a power that is built around the behaviour of this second entity.
It's certainly far improved in scope, should have probably taken a little more time to QA test it, but of course the road map is pretty set in stone, and those deadlines ain't gonna budge for no one or nothing.
If it did you can guarantee we would get some cockamamy thread sayings something like "BHVR unable to keep up with Roadmap, should hire more staff" or some other nonsense.
So not really worried about it myself. These kinda things are to be expected in a live service game with this much new content at such regular intervals.
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A fringe benefit of this of course is this also helps identify your totems... and tbh can't think of a reason why that would be bad.
A nice buff for Detective's Hunch would be that it also changes hex/dull totem aura colours.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
literally exactly what I suggested
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434404/easy-fix-for-hexes
My bad! But at least we're making the same noise xD
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@Emeal said:
I agree with this.
Thanks that man, edited now; glad the title was good enough xD
Apologies this thread was intiially crap, I completely fumbled the submit button as tried to select the body xD
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Revert? Absolutely not... this killer needed buffs, but I do think she may have been slightly overbuffed.
I basically agree with Scott's take; I've clipped it if you want the short version, but I'd recommend the first 6 minutes of this video cause he does argue it well.
The speed the Dog vaults is pretty cracked, rather than having to predict the survivor, you can wait for the vault and score an injury or grab on the other side quite effortlessly now, since the dog vaults faster than the survivor does. It also looks stupid cause the dog goes unnaturally fast, the same way cracked background player looked stupid, so it kinda betrays how you intuitively understand the situation. I'd knock this back a little.
The cooldown on her Chase power being 3s, basically the same time as a blade wipe also feels a little unnecessary, 4s cooldown also felt enough to me.
She still needs a slew of bug fixes, and some recall abilities on search for some QoL would be nice... but a slight nerf shlukd reign in the teething problems, however revert would be just as bad a direction to go.
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Can confirm happening on PS5 console... I didn't get any error but my progress did seem to reset. Have been trying to repro but doesn't seem to be occurring with the main menu in any way, only encountered it after games complete.
I'm not sure, but I think I lost bloodpoints... however I can't say for sure cause only managed to reproduce when I'm not paying attention...
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I'd take Counterforce and a Green map with a Stamp and Red Twine if you're worried about totems. Basically makes totems take the same as old Thrill of the Hunt, and very easy to find.
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@Berienn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843607#Comment_3843607
ah yes yes yes lets prevent killers from getting 4 kills just because YOU as surv are playing with trolls/selfish people
As I've said before... if you can't beat/find a player crawling at 1.05m/s to hatch, who is also 50% louder, you deserve to lose the 4k.
Use your head man, there is no picking a side here, the killer still wins 98% of the time in this scenario even with these buffs.
This is so far from being stacked against the killer it's actually comical you'd even take this stance. All this buff does is give the slugged player something to do to at least TRY and get away.