VolantConch1719
VolantConch1719
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If I may make two requests:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/39075/dbd-killer-timeline/p1 (you're going to have to grab the URL and manually put it in)
This one is kind of selfish, but it's also something that I genuinely feel should be preserved, since it's probably one of, if not THE largest thread in the Lore section (I at least have never heard of anyone else running into a character limit like I did, which is why I can't actually give you the full link, it's telling me "Body is 45253 characters too long").
@MusicNerd_TC said:
Dan, most commonly known here as Cheers or CheersTC died on September 13 in his sleep, he was one of the nicest and most wholesome forum members out there, but we lost him to cancer at the young age of 19.
We found out a few months ago that he was battling cancer, and was going through a downward spiral in life.
Before I was banned temporarily from the forums, I got to know him, and me and a bunch of other friends, @Respectfulnancymain @GoodBoyKaru @NoOneKnowsNova Laura and others did swf and custom matches with him, and I have to say, it was the most fun I have ever had in dbd. He was an amazing, funny, and kindhearted human who didn't deserve this, especially at such a young age.
Karu told me today that he died, and it was so sudden, I was speechless.
You all might have seen that a bunch of us changed our pfp to WGLF, hope etc. This was all because of cheers, and his legacy. I am here to pay my respects to him.
Karu was also cheers' boyfriend, and he is going through a lot right now as well, so if you can, try and comfort him, he is extremely depressed and heartbroken right now. But I want to let you all know, that he will carry on, even if he has died, I will always remember him.
Now, to everyone who was aware of the situation, I will tag you @Todgeweiht @bubbabrotha @Dabihwow @azame @Unicorn @Endstille @Elena @MandyTalk @Aneurysm @Demonl3y
Oh yeah, don't think I forgot about you cancer. ######### cancer.
But this one is a lot more special. @Cheers was one of the most genuine people I have ever seen, even if I only spoke with him once to save him from interacting with a troll. His tribute should be preserved somewhere.
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I guess this throws out my plan of having an annual custom of making an alt on December 12 and just spamming my documentation of The Thread everywhere, huh.
Can't say I'm too surprised that the site I spent a literal THIRD of my life on (I was 16 when I made my account, I'm 24 now) is getting nuked. It's kind of just par for the course for me the year that has had it out for me specifically.
I was going to make a video about this (and honestly, I still might, but the script I have is kind of a bit ranty on personal tragedies this year and, while I think the context of why this is yet another gut punch is important, I also don't know how much anyone would want to hear about some nobody's misery), but I'll say something here for now.
I'm probably one of the last of the old guard, having been here almost since the Forum's inception. I was there to see Sluzzy. I was there for Orion getting his crown, and I was there to see him abandon DBD forever. I was there when @Fibijean lost their Trusted status. I was there when we all came together to honor @Cheers. I was there when we still had Awesomes (picture below for proof). I have seen just about everything that happened to this place. And now I'm here to watch it die. It's kind of poetic.
You claim that "user activity and engagement" has dropped substantially. Yeah, that'll happen when you ban all of the regulars and have a moderation policy that doesn't allow for strikes to decay, allowing someone to go literal years without issue, then get perma-banned because they were a troublemaker seven years ago.
I know this was a decision from the higher ups, but YOU are the ones responsible for the REASON the decision came down to begin with. Everyone was SCARED that anything they said would lead to a warning because there was never any clear idea of what was and wasn't allowed. The digital blood of this Forum is on YOUR hands. None of those other platforms will REMOTELY compare to what you had here, where you can actually sort things properly (only Steam has that, and even then… what good is that for console users).
It's disappointing, but not surprising. I miss what the Forums used to be. But I'm also pretty sure that died a long time ago.
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This will probably be my final post on the forums. And I do mean for good this time, so I finally caved and created a new google account specifically for the updated timeline that I've been working on in the background (since my normal one that it was originally on has my actual real name on it and I really didn't feel like doxxing myself).
It's been a wild ride, and this project has genuinely been one of my favorite things I've ever done, but it's time to move on. This document will be what I update from here on out.
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@TheGoon224 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036790#Comment_4036790
OK I’m gonna be honest. I might actually watch Helsing now. Because that man is wearing a fit that drips so damn hard he’d need a coaster to stand on.
Just a heads up, there are (as seems to be a thing with a lot of older manga-to-anime adaptations) two different Hellsing animes. When most people talk about it, they're talking about Ultimate, which was a more faithful adaptation of the original manga (as a result of, you know, actually having more than 3-4 episodes worth of material to work with for a 13-episode show).
The original's enjoyable enough for what it is, but Ultimate's the one everyone thinks about for a reason.
Oh, and Alucard's English voice actor is also our Dracula, which is pretty cool.
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Elfen Lied and Hellsing spring to mind pretty easily.
Lucy may look like a cutesy anime catgirl but
- Those are horns, not ears,
- She is a genuinely cruel, depraved, misanthropic sociopath who's only kept in check by her affection for Kouta (and also one of her alters, Nyu), and
- Her weapons of choice are a set of "2-meter long invisible arms" that she uses to slice people in half or rip them to pieces (this is literally how the show opens, and it is as graphic as you're imagining).
And Alucard's whole thing is that he is ABSOLUTELY a monster who fights "for" good in what is effectively a twisted game he plays with Integra, letting her know that all the blood he spills is on her hands. He would probably be the big villain (or at least an antagonist) in literally any other story if he wasn't busy fighting literal Nazi vampires (no, I'm not making that up, Hellsing Ultimate is kind of insane).
My #1 most wanted license is also an anime that I only threw in the towel and watched because it was on one of BHVR's license surveys, but you'd have to get to Mister Fantastic levels of stretch to call Fullmetal Alchemist even horror-adjacent. I think it can be done if you focus on the Homunculi like Wrath or Pride, or if you focus on the 2003 anime, but it's still a stretch that I only bring up because BHVR themselves have considered it.
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Considering even the leaks community hasn't latched onto anything beyond the trailer showing his Season 5 model, there is a roughly 99% chance that it's just placeholder information. A lot of gaming wikis do this.
Further, while I was trying to find the template page to compare the two, it seems like they've done something because this is all the page is now:
And looking through the history, it hasn't been edited since November 28, and none of the edits show the info box you have, even though I definitely remember it being there. Which leads more credence to it being placeholder information or someone jumping the gun with the box on a somehow different page.
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The problem is, those ARE the correct numbers for both. The Archives have, quite frankly, never had good quality control, and you're probably one of the only people who actually noticed and cared enough to bring this up.
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I don't care who my teammates play (unless they're playing Stevegull, I'm not putting myself on the line for them), and I feel the reason people get hung up over bad Sable players is how popular she is leading to a lot of newer/bad players playing her. It's just one of many stereotypes that formed because people recognize patterns easier when they're negative, ignoring everything that contradicts said patterns. It's just human nature.
That doesn't change the fact that Sable is a fundamentally TERRIBLE character. Her lore is so poorly written that people literally believed she didn't actually exist and was a creation of the Entity until Orela showed she was real. Not to mention that it paints her as an unbelievably shallow person who wants to be the center of attention at all times (there's the entire angle of her being a borderline stalker towards Mikaela for a reason). Her skins are designed with "sex appeal" and that's basically it. Her voice lines are so laughably bad that they come back around to being memable. And I could go on.
It's not racist to dislike a bad character.
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I've more or less pieced together the Killer Timeline on this very forum (though, I've admittedly not been updating it after running into a character limit with Springtrap's release and I'm still trying to figure out how to share the Google Doc I've made continuing it without exposing my e-mail that has my actual real name in it), but Survivors have ALWAYS been difficult to figure out. There was one person years ago who tried, but their distaste for Stranger Things was so immense that when that chapter was announced, they left the game entirely, so that effort went completely defunct.
There are some who are easier to work with than others (Vittorio being a very obvious one, but characters like Min & Nea have direct years mentioned either in their cosmetics [Min's default shirt directly points to a 2016 tournament] or in promotional art [Nea spraying a camera showing the year of 2021 in one of her skin's banners]), but most are just generically modern. Sable's podcast is specifically called out as "old" in Orela's story, and given other context clues we can reasonably assume she's probably early 2010s at the latest, but you might as well be throwing darts at a dartboard trying to figure most of them out.
We also know for a fact that not every original Survivor is from the same universe. This has not only been directly stated by BHVR themselves, but also shown with Jonah's tome, where he gets confused for a man named Max by a teacher involved with an investigation that Haddie's performing. However, this Haddie is a decently old woman from a universe where JORDAN was taken instead of her, meaning our Haddie (and Taurie) physically and temporally CANNOT be from Jonah's universe.
@thats1evildude said:
That’s very difficult to answer, because BHVR tends to leave certain details deliberately vague. I mean, just look at the Hag’s backstory. Can you tell, definitely, what era she lived in? She seems to have gone to a relatively modern school, but beyond that, the time and place she lived in is indistinguishable.
Also, it’s not clear if the Entity is pulling all of the non-licensed Survivors and Killers from the same universe/timeline. To be clear, of them are obviously from the same Earth - Renato and Thalita are twins, Mikaela and Sable were friends pre-Fog, Elodie and Felix had a childhood connection, Taurie tried to kill Haddie’s brother, and Jane’s recent Tome references Dwight and Zarina. But a lot of the Survivors and Killers have no connection to each other.I do apologize if it seems like I'm about to go off on you, that is genuinely not my intention. This is just something I've seen so many times and have even argued about in my own friend group and it annoys me every time I see it.
Thalita and Renato are very explicity NOT twins. Not only does the language in their stories explicitly point to Thalita being older by more than a few years, nor does the term "twin" show up even ONCE in either story, but their shared archive explicitly calls Renato a baby while Thalita is watching a kite-fighting tournament. Thalita is at least 3-4 years older than Renato.
I do not know where this came from, and it is such a minor thing for me to get irritated over compared to the rest of the literal OCEANS of misinformation surrounding DBD's lore (mostly spread by the largest lore-based content creators who've carved a niche they don't deserve), but it genuinely does get to me every time I see it.
Also, Hag is most likely from the late 80s to early-mid 90s, based on the fashion seen in her tome's cutscene and some of the language within, but yes, she's always been a problem child.
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- Legion consists of 4 members, with only Frank's age being described (19). Susie has cosmetics that refer to her as a sophmore, but that's about it.
- You could apply this to MANY of the Survivors, including some of the originals. Ace, David, their OWN Survivor Jeff, Jonah, and Haddie would all realistically beat any of the Legion in a one on one fight (provided they were disarmed, the knife CONSIDERABLY increases the Legion's threat level).
Now, for an actual answer. Every Killer has their strength altered by the Entity to FAR beyond superhuman levels. That is the reason someone like the Legion is able to kick pallets apart, bring down professional fighters, kick down walls, pick up and carry around a large and heavyset man like Jeff with one arm, and sling them onto a hook suspended several feet above the ground with the same level of ease as the Oni, an 8+ foot tall massive hulk of pure muscle.
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This has been a thing for as long as I can remember, based on weird stereotypes that form around certain characters. The biggest one that comes to mind is the "Meghead," but most characters have some kind of stereotypical playstyle that's formed over the years (Blendette, Sabo Jake, Toxic Nea/Min, Baby Leon, Stevegull, etc.). It's weird and nonsensical, but it happens frequently enough that people can't separate these stereotypes from the characters, despite the character having literally no correlation to how the person will play.
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Something that I want to note is that Burong, even when we remove the Krasue from the equation, is really not a good person. Sure, she's not exactly evil in the way someone like Trickster (an actually fairely comparable character) is, but the only reason she took Malai's elixir was a selfish desire for fame. She showed no sympathy after the Krasue devoured Malai, and when she got home and started crying, it wasn't because she had murdered her best friend a few hours earlier, but because the director confirmed she got the part she wanted. And she was perfectly fine with harboring the Krasue and letting it murder innocents if it meant making her famous. She's not exactly innocent herself.
Now, it's also important to note that the Entity didn't reach out to Burong, but rather the Krasue itself. And even in body form, there's the whole slit neck going on, as well as the changes that she undergoes when she's Regurgitating, and her voice actor even states that the direction she took her voice was "the impression the Krasue is trying to appear as a normal woman, though feeling something isn't quite right about her".
With that evidence, I don't think Burong is entirely in control of what she's doing, but I don't think she'd be entirely adverse to it either if the Entity convinced her that doing its bidding would further her fame to new, previously unattainable peaks.
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Legion works for what they are: a low-skill character for players who are new to playing Killer, arguably doing a better job than the character BHVR likes to tout as the poster-boy for these players and refuse to buff as a result (yes, I'm talking about Trapper). And I'm saying this as someone who has consistently placed Legion among my top 5 since their release (used to be top 3, but Vecna and Xeno pushed them down, though I'm maybe reconsidering Xeno now that my hype has died down) and usually play simply for the vibes rather than the results.
Yes, they're pretty bad at higher levels without making dirtbag plays, but they're good at teaching fundamentals that the stronger Killers can branch off from. They're fine as they are.
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I like the lore of DBD (even if it's kind of corny and the whole "everything's a multiverse" thing being one of my literal LEAST favorite tropes), though I haven't really kept up with it since they completely butchered the Archives starting with Tools of Torment (the visual memories are just a waste of space, the stories are no longer titled and thus lost the grab they once did, and the once linear memory labels became so completely jumbled and out of order that they became meaningless).
What I HEAVILY dislike is the community surrounding the lore. Most people I've seen that claim to be knowledgeable about the game's lore haven't actually read it and instead get all of their information from the "lore content creators" like a certain Twins/Skull Merchant main (that I know lurks this forum). This wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the fact that these creators either inject their own biases into the lore, don't differentiate their theories from facts, or just spread misinformation to suit their narrative.
Some "highlights" include:
- The Entity is afraid of Myers of all Killers. You know, the slightly superhuman person with no real powers?
- Pyramid Head came to the Entity's realm to punish it. I've seen someone unironically claim to be an expert on DBD lore and state this, and then get torn to shreds in the comments by people who actually HAVE read the lore and not used Pixel's poorly-thought-out fanfiction.
- The Dredge is a baby version of the Entity. I have no idea where this came from, but I have seen it so frequently that I feel like I have to point out the Dredge barely shows up in its own lore. We don't know what it is.
- Nurse was a merciful figure in her base lore and experienced character assassination, becoming a eugenicist. Not only is this wrong, as her base lore neither shows her in a merciful and has always had the idea of "concepts of purification emerged inside her", but her archive actually makes her the VICTIM of a complete psychopath who planted those ideas in her. You'll never see anyone bring that point up though.
- Jonah is a war criminal. To put it simply, Jonah was doing his job trying to locate a terrorist group by intercepting and decoding messages they passed as part of a task force (between 3-10 people), gave their position to his higher ups who ACTUALLY called the drone strike, and only realized too late that the messages were decoys. What happened was a freak accident that he tried to atone for, but none of the content creators will tell you that part. Not only is Jonah NOT a war criminal (accidents aren't war crimes), what Pixel did was spread GENUINELY DANGEROUS MISINFORMATION that not only ruined Jonah's reputation, but also trivializes the actual atrocities committed by ACTUAL war criminals. I'm finally seeing some pushback on this one, but it's not enough.
There's many, MANY more, but this post is already way too long of a response towards the question of "How do you feel about DBD lore?"
TLDR: Enjoy the lore, despise the creators who discuss it.
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I picked Torment because it seemed the most fitting for an angel, though I'm seeing a lot of people in favor of Control.
I will say though, if Relentlessness wins, no one is EVER allowed to complain about high-speed dash Killers again.
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I personally can't wait to never play Survivor again because I run "lore-accurate" builds that usually wind up being pretty bad. I've been here long enough to know how bad the community is: they WILL dodge once they see my Taurie with Treacherous Crows, even though I'm probably never actually going to use it unless we're already winning.
@Marc_123 said:
For that reason i don´t think they will do it.
If they do the dodging will be so insane that they have to revert it. Or it comes with the change that you can´t leave a lobby anymore.
Also i am not so sure the positives will outweigh. You know the community…
The chat will be like "… don´t run xyz… thats garbage, run zyx instead", "… no dh and ds???", "… no mither - you will kill us all", "… i am dcing"
They've already confirmed on two separate occasions that they're going to do it: once at PAX and again during the recent AMA.
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Nurse - Don't play her enough to develop the muscle memory needed for her Blinks, and since I don't play her enough, I keep missing my Blinks and default to basic chasing on the one Killer who literally cannot do that.
Blight - I used to really like Blight, then I took a few weeks off and now every match just makes me want to throw my mouse at the computer.
Most of the Ranged Killers - I can't hit the broad side of a barn at point-blank range, so Huntress & Slinger just suck, and I can't get the hang of Unknown's ricochet. Trickster's really the only exception to the true ranged Killers.
Spirit - I have good headphones, but I've always had trouble with directional audio. I always wind up overshooting or undershooting or just not even being in the same ballpark.
Honorable mention to two Killers I used to hate but have actually grown to really enjoy: Artist and Singularity. I'm not sure what I did on Singu, but Artist was just learning how to shotgun her birds and use them as active chase tools rather than anti-loop.
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I'm a completionist. That's basically all there is to it.
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License fatigue is very real, but even just general content fatigue currently has its deathgrip on DBD. The last few years have given us so much content that it's practically suffocating.
And just for review of all DBD years
- Year 1: 9 Survivors (2 Licensed) + 7 Killers (1 Licensed).
- Year 2: 3 Survivors (2 Licensed) + 4 Killers (3 Licensed).
- Year 3: 5 Survivors (1 Licensed) + 4 Killers (all Original).
- Year 4: 4 Survivors (2 Licensed) + 4 Killers (2 Licensed).
- Year 5: 4 Survivors (1 Licensed) + 4 Killers (1 Licensed).
- Year 6: 5 Survivors (3 Licensed) + 4 Killers (3 Licensed).
- Year 7: 6 Survivors (2 Licensed) + 4 Killers (1 Licensed).
- Year 8: 5 Survivors (3 Licensed) + 4 Killers (2 Licensed).
- Year 9: 5 Survivors (3 Licensed) + 4 Killers (3 Licensed).
- And the current year is set for 6 Survivors (4 Licensed) + 3 Killers (2 Licensed).
Overall, by the end of the year, we'll have 94 characters in the game, not counting legendary Survivors from whatever other collaborations suddenly happen. 41 of those are licensed characters (about 44%). But from Year 6 onward, 26 of the 46 characters (roughly 57%) have been licensed, and that disparity is only going to get worse. And that's without going into the mid-chapters starting to become chapters in their own right (Nick Cage & Alan Wake in Year 8, Lara Croft & Orela Rose in Year 9, and now the Walking Dead in Year 10). And it's becoming clearer than ever that BHVR can't keep up anymore. Just look at the PTB, where Michonne, one of the core characters they're trying to sell, literally DOES NOT WORK.
I'm not saying I want to see BHVR stop doing licenses. For better or worse, DBD is THE Horror Hall of Fame (and also D&D & Tomb Raider for some reason), and they're keeping the game alive. But I would like to go back to the release pace of older years, both for original and licensed content.
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Just about every Killer's POV is messed up. I've actually done a whole experiment to prove it (though I would love to go more in depth with another in the future using actual Survivor perspectives, but I don't really have the ability to test that right now), but the game basically gaslights you about how tall every Killer is with the Height marking, and every Killer beyond Twins is also weirdly zoomed back. I'm just going to leave the below screenshot of Twins ("Tall"), Trapper (Tall), Ghost Face ("Average") and Artist ("Average") because I think it says everything it needs to.
Based on my observation, Springtrap is probably using the post-Twins "Average" POV used by characters like Trickster (who was the actual start, and I'm placing below this because Artist actually uses a higher POV), Knight (who is visually Tall but marked Average), Wesker and Ceno (who is MARKED as Tall and is about Knight's height).
TL;DR, no one's height matches anything and we just have to accept that.
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To add more information, Valve is very free about letting developers use their IPs, as long as the devs can't make money off of them. It's why Bill is free, his rift cosmetic was on the free track, the cosmetics you can purchase for him are Iridescent Shard only, and why Dwight, Meg, Claudette, and Jake each have a L4D set (that I don't think is actually structured as such, but they're there) from the moment you get the game.
It's also why we're unlikely to receive further L4D content, since BHVR wouldn't be able to profit from it (so definitely no chapter), anytime in the near future.
For the outfit, they've said that they're looking at ways to put all of them in the store at a later date, since this is the final Masquerade, but who knows when that will actually be.
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My top Survivor is who I expected (Ash at 21.4 hours), but everyone else feels a bit off. Jonah and Vittorio, two characters I basically never play, are sitting at 2nd and 3rd with 14 and 11.5 hours.
And my top 3 Killers are NOTHING like I expected. I fully expected Doctor to be standing at number 1. After all, he's my highest level and been my main for years. And yet, my top 3 are actually Demogorgon (17.4 hours), Blight (16.7 hours), and Nurse (13.2 hours). Doc is sitting at 4th with 13.1 hours (though a lovely 71.03% kill rate, which is the highest, followed by Sadako and Skull Merchant at 70.65% & 70.45%).
I can kind of understand where Demo comes from, since there was a period of time where I played at least one Demo match each time I played when Stranger Things was gone, but I can't imagine it was THAT many. I guess the Blight hours are from the time when I actually enjoyed playing him, but I've NEVER enjoyed Nurse, so seeing her so high is kind of fascinating.
The hours are also kind of weird, but seeing as I've been playing since 2018, I can certainly understand some inaccuracies there. Definitely spending a lot more time than necessary in lobbies & menus compared to the game.
Everything else is about what I expected.
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My right ear seems to really enjoy the sound of generators being repaired, since that's the only side that hears it. My left ear is reserved for pulling the levers and stuff.
It's a completely different issue from what you're having, but the audio is definitely bugged out.
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So… uhm… fun fact…
There's a character limit…
And me putting Springtrap into the timeline exceeded it.
So now I have a few options. I can either:
A) Attempt to remove all unnecessary segments that are crossed out but preserved for history purposes;
or
B) Move everything to a Google Doc and link it here.
Option A is a, quite frankly, short-term solution. As more Killers come in, I'll be getting closer to that limit again. On the other hand, Option B is much more permanent, but I'd need to figure out how to actually link it, and it would add extra steps to accessing the timeline.
Frankly, I'm leaning more towards Option B, since it is more permanent, but it'll take a little bit before then.
(Also, yes, I'm aware I'm WAY behind on the Archives. To tell the truth, I was genuinely so annoyed at how they changed them by removing the unique titles, adding visual memories that halted the story flow, and jumbling the Memory order that I just stopped caring. With the Archives now being where they are, I'll probably get to them eventually… maybe…)
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Here's the thing people don't want to think about. If you wanted to go back and give older characters voice lines, you'd have to completely redo their voices. Most of the characters from before All-Kill are voiced by BHVR employees, NOT actual voice actors, and a good chunk of them probably don't even work at BHVR anymore. Take Quentin. He was voiced by Louis McLean, who's last act at BHVR was fixing 95% of Blight's bugs.
I can't imagine BHVR tracking down their old employees like McLean and getting them to do real voice lines, something they DON'T have real experience with. Which would mean getting new voice actors and lead to the characters losing their voices. And those voices are extremely iconic to the characters, so losing them would be losing the characters.
And if you think I'm exaggerating, I can tell you right now that I'm not, because it's ALREADY HAPPENED. In 2023, Jonah's voice actor got changed after his original was accused of either grooming or being a pedo (can't remember which one, though the former is usually done by the latter) with a decent enough chunk of evidence. He lost the voice he had for nearly TWO YEARS, and you can go back and find that basically everyone who played him was upset, feeling that they lost their character. And personally, even to this day I can't distinguish Jonah's voice because I'm expecting the old one. (And on a side note, Jonah was already having trouble with the community after the biggest lore creator spread genuinely dangerous misinformation about him being a war criminal, but this voice change broke him for the few who did enjoy him).
When people want to go back and add voicelines to older characters (Yun-Jin and beyond I can maybe see, since that's when they started getting actual voice actors, but not before), they are not thinking of the ramifications of what they're asking for, and I'd rather BHVR spend resources on literally anything else.
And in general, having voicelines is no longer unique or interesting. It was cool when Ash did it (and why I originally mained him), got lost when the RE cast retroactively did it and broke the ability for everyone else to hear them, was neat when the Lyras spoke to each other, and is now either annoying (Gabriel's literal THREE voice lines) bad (90% of Sable's voice lines) or just stupid (No Ripley, the 9 ft tall bio-weapon is NOT crawling in the tunnels). Good voice lines like Orela, Alan or the bards are rare.
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Dredge causes me actual physical pain. Other Killers like Plague and Bubba are annoying, but I can deal with them. With Dredge, I have to hope I can find a light source so I don't wind up with a massive headache and the feeling of needles being hammered into my eyes from the strain they're put through in Nightfall.
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Let's imagine you unlock and level Felix to P3. Congratulations, you now have discount Tier-3 Deja Vu automatically unlocked on all Survivors past, present, and future without ever putting a single Bloodpoint in them. And depending on how all of your other Survivors are leveled, maybe you won't get actual Deja Vu for a while… Yeah that's about all I can come up with.
@MrRetsej said:
Alright, to understand the point behind Visionary, you have to understand a bit of DbD history, namely how it relates to Deja Vu.
Although Deja Vu had been in the game pretty much since release, it didn't always have the effect it currently does. In fact, at release, it only showed you 2 generators for 8 seconds, starting from the load-in camera pan (so really leaving you with maybe 1-3 seconds for you to actively see where they were). It wasn't until patch 2.1.0 that Deja Vu got updated to show you the 3 gens that were closest together, and then only for the first 60 seconds of the match, and again whenever a gen got completed. If you were distracted by being in chase when a gen popped, good luck being able to use Deja Vu to know where any gens were, let alone the 3-gen. Consequently, few people ever used the perk.
Along comes the Descend Beyond chapter (I think this was 4.2.0) and the introduction of Felix and his perk Visionary. Unlike Deja Vu, which only gave you information at the start of the match and periodically throughout it, you now had constant info on gen placement that also didn't cost you an item slot the way a Map would. The trade off was it was only for gens within 32 meters, and you had to suffer the 16 second cooldown, likely to prevent you from tunneling the gens.
This was pretty much the state of things until the Midchapter patch 6.1.0 which came in to drastically shake up the meta. If you recall, this was the patch that had the first massive nerf to Dead Hard, Corrupt Intervention, Iron Will and many others. It also introduced the repair speed buff to Deja Vu, however the buff was only 5% and it still only showed you the 3gen for 60 seconds at the start of the match or when a gen popped.
It wasn't until patch 7.0.0 that Deja Vu was giga-buffed to always show you the 3 closest generators and even had the repair speed buff increased to 6% cementing it as the go-to free gen-jockey perk and leaving Visionary as a well-intentioned relic.Ultimately, Visionary was a good perk meant to address a real problem for its time. Unfortunately, it has become over-shadowed by Deja Vu, has fallen by the way side, and is in dire need of a rework.
And also basically this.
Seriously, BHVR, do something for Visionary. I'm pretty sure I remember the repair speed bonus was just supposed to be a temporary measure until a 3-gen prevention measure was implemented, but you've since gone back on that, and now this perk has ZERO purpose.
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Allow me to recount my experience with the first iteration of Lights Out:
- Go in wanting to play every Killer at least once
- Get halfway through in one sitting (Trapper to Demogorgon, minus Freddy for obvious reasons)
- Get the same exact map SIX TIMES IN A ROW (and it was the darkest one, which nicely moves into the next point)
- Stop playing at 9ish due to the massive headache I was getting from straining my eyes in the darkness for literal hours
- Have a feeling I can only describe as needles piercing my eyes until I go to bed at 1:30ish
Yeah, needless to say, it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had with this game, and I'm pretty sure it actually killed my drive to play the game for a LONG time. I gave the second iteration one go and found it to be just as bad, so I've decided to never touch the mode again. It's not worth actual physical pain when I'm already a few steps removed of legally blind (a statement I'm not even sure is hyperbole).
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A tad disappointed we're not getting Michael/Henry/Vanessa/Charlie (3 of which all have actual artwork to pull from, and Charlie would especially be unique as our first robotic Survivor), but I understand not having a Survivor for this one. Michael's the most obvious choice and he spends most of the games as a walking corpse with nothing but an 8-bit figure or a reflection of Rick Astley to go off of, and the others are mostly relegated to the books or are Vanessa, who might tentatively work better as a Legendary for Afton in her possessed? Vanny "form".
And I get to cross another of my most wanteds of my list, and it even comes with a map. So regardless, I'm pretty happy.
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Yes, this is definitely what this should look like.
Got one when I opened Steam for the first time today, got the other as I opened the game.
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I honestly don't care for the voice acting, but not because I find them annoying or anything like that. When I was deciding on a main Survivor, I was torn between 3 options: Min, Adam & Ash. I removed Min from the equation after deciding that she was too common, while Adam and Ash were some of the rarest Survivors to see. And I ultimately chose Ash BECAUSE he spoke in the lobby. It made him unique, and every time I was playing someone else and he showed up, or if I was playing Killer, it was a treat hearing him in the lobby because I KNEW he was there without having to look.
Then Project W happened. Now, you couldn't hear him or any of the other characters anymore. And then every new Survivor (with Vittorio being the only exception) started getting voice lines, and the entire reason I mained Ash, the entire thing that made him unique, is just commonplace now. There are 45, soon to be 46 (not counting Legendaries and counting Aestri & Baermar as one character), Survivors in the game, and 16 of them (potentially 17 soon) speak (37% by the way). And unless they want to re-record all of the original Survivors voices that are just as iconic as the characters themselves (thus removing the iconic voices), I can't imagine BHVR tracking down their old employees and getting them to do proper voice lines.
I liked when it was a rare treat like Ash. The Lyras make sense speaking to each other, as much as I dislike his inclusion, Nick Cage would feel so wrong if he couldn't speak (and those voice lines should absolutely be on the Killer side as well), and Robbie Daymond plays one of my favorite characters in my favorite game as well as a very important character in my favorite series in general, so I love being able to hear him on my new main in Baermar. But it's quickly losing the uniqueness that made Ash so special.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904509#Comment_3904509
The Community Manager does not respond to everything she can, this is not how developer feedback on us works, she read it anyway cause its her job to read it, even if I screw up pinging her. Mandy clarified the position of BHVR and I still think its worth the critique. Which is ironic because you say I cant change your mind, yet in the end of your reply you say we basically agree on the same thing. Removing content is bad. There is no question about this.
- Take a look at the unofficial map stats trackers then, none of them are more grossly unbalanced than the current map pool.
We also lack severe confirmation from BHVR that the maps are considered unbalanced by them, its not a point BHVR has brought up so its up to others to demonstrate it. - (You dont need to make a point to make a point if you find conflicting evidence, just acknowledge the point.)
Yes. the point about not treating Map Variation as Map Types of a Realm. It has gotten a good response on reddit too.
Idd like to see BHVR respond to that. - "Unless you're able to pull a new player out of a hat", I can infact, I just recently added 4 new players to the game via the 2v8 from before the RE 2v8. We have been playing since then. And it really stunned me, 4 adult men, cant even remember basics when it comes to where anything is in this game. Small sample sure, but they play well enough that I dont believe the claim that, New players need to learn where everything is and that Map Variants somehow makes them so confused that they cant play anyway. I don't think it is so confusing as people have made it out to me here.
- Its because you repeat yourself, dont float any diagnose about here. please don't say others are things like that here.
Name-calling is the worst. - "the fact that you are one of only THREE people I've seen complain tells me all I need to know." what is this supposed to mean? There is nothing wrong with me, this just seems to be a jab at me rather than making a good faith discussion here.
Yes, good you concede it its a very bad argument. Why even make it a point then? Great you enjoy Lich, I do too. - I am not putting words in your mouth, I didnt say you claimed heaven here. I said others had, because its all based on that BHVR COULD fix all the maps according to you, but It falls over when I ask, well how do you know that will happen?
6.2 "What gives you the idea that BHVR is under no impression that the maps were awful?" When you say Awful do you mean unbalanced to the point they need to be removed or just "disliked" to the point of being removed, Cause I think there is a very meaningful difference. Additionally, Yes I ask for the reason what people say. I even asked BHVR they have not agreed. I agree "Absence of evidence (in this case, not directly saying the maps were bad) is not evidence of absence" but that isnt evidence for anyone and I was not the one who claimed the maps were unbalanced. That was someone else. - Considering how they have not made many significant changes to the maps over the years, It clearly isnt very hard to maintain. Ofc that assumes that BHVR does their job, which I am fine with assuming. But since you don't you still have a burden of proof. Furthermore I am responding to points most of the time
If someone claims a map is unbalanced, they should provide evidence.
If you claim the map is balanced, you should provide evidence to counter their argument.
If you just say "I don’t think so," you're expressing doubt, not necessarily making a claim.
(You're questioning their assertion rather than asserting the opposite.)
And honestly, people love expressing unbalance without providing evidence on these forums.
Even if I assume BHVR is doing their job, its still up to anyone else to prove that its unbalanced. Not me.
Thanks for the Tango, tho you dont need to respond to humor me, I am on these forums clearly as both a excise in logic and love of the game. And I know the developers do enjoy seeing discussion here with a bit more logic structure. (They told me.)
Ill also slam BHVR when I think they do something wrong, because that is what feedback is all about and BHVR still responds very well to logical and reasoned arguments in regards to their plans, maybe they find I make really good points and revert it.
Mostly Im just hoping for deeper explanations of what's the reasons for its removal, because I certainly think I challenged the given reasons well so far. It could also be that they double down and say, "no really buddy, map variations were really bad for us"
which is fine, Im not demanding perfect logic from BHVR here either.I didn't expect I'd change your mind, and I'm not exactly the best at expressing myself (you have no idea how many times I rewrote things trying to get across what I wanted to say before basically giving up and sending it), so I'll leave it at that. Just one more point here:
"Its because you repeat yourself, dont float any diagnose about here. please don't say others are things like that here.
Name-calling is the worst."My dude, I wasn't diagnosing anyone. I'M autistic, hence "Maybe it's just the autism speaking here". If I'm calling anyone names, it's MYSELF.
- Take a look at the unofficial map stats trackers then, none of them are more grossly unbalanced than the current map pool.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904013#Comment_3904013
Sure ill take you up on that challenge, You could just @ me if you want my attention, instead of hiding behind "to the person who"
- The Maps were fine to play, about as equal to other maps in the game. There were no leaning to one side to be worthy of note.
- If you felt like the bloated the map system, then BHVR could have made the choice of selecting Map types in a Realm before picking Variants. There is absolutely no need to waste 100s of hours of Map Team team time. BHVR has not answered this question yet.
- The claim that was less accessible to new players is not something that has been proven, I find it much more likely that new players are somewhat always confused about where they are, even on maps that have 1 version like RPD.
I would like BHVR to pull out the proof for this, but I dont think they have it I don't think new players are magically going to improve their playstyle from this update forward, seems very unlikely to me. If you think overwise please demonstrate it. - You double down on Point 3 like 4 times, I refer to you to point 3.
- No one asked for it, is such a weird argument. Because indeed many things in this game isnt exactly asked for, so we should remove anything that someone didnt directly asked for? I dont know why people make this argument, or why they think its worth mentioning. Like BHVR isn't a restaurant, they make changes they themselves ask for.
- "Maybe now they can actually balance the maps", People treat the removal of Map Variants as a new paradigm for Map Balance with like 100% evidence that will happen. I dont even think BHVR is under the impression that the maps, where awful balancewise they dont even say so.
- In your final point you say, that removing Map Variants will reduce the things the map balance team has to do. I would refer you back to point 6, you have no proof this will happen. But a better counter is actually, the more map variants there are the the more places BHVR could change a map for the better with minimal effect on overall balance to see whats better.
That being IF the Map Variants where unreasonably balanced which does not seem to be the case.
Indeed now BHVR has even less ways to train on map balance.
To me its simple why you are wrong. Refer back to points 1 to 7.
Hmm, it's clear I won't be able to change your mind and you won't change mine (it's kind of why I DIDN'T tag you, since I knew it would get us nowhere, though you also failed in your own logic by not pinging Mandy earlier), but I'll humor your points for a bit.
- In a game where maps are so rarely truly balanced without leaning to one side or the other, I find this hard to believe, ESPECIALLY when four of those were Badham. The fact that the feedback they got, as Mandy said, was "inherently negative, with the majority of players disliking them," as well as they weren't as good as the originals tells me that most people DIDN'T think they were fine to play, for one reason or another.
- That's… how map selection ALREADY works (At least, how I thought it worked given their previous statements, but now I'm not sure given that Reddit statement. But I already typed this whole thing out so I'll keep it, fully expecting you to dismantle it and throw it aside like you seem to do with everyone else's points). It's the whole reason why map offerings bring you to a realm (with the irritating exception of the Dvarka maps). However, for the map repeat prevention, they counted as different maps, so it was entirely possible to get THE SAME MAP, with a slightly tweaked layout, several times in a row (it happened to me with Ormond. Multiple times, and not once during those streaks did I get the Mine). And if they're going to go with realm repeat prevention, that would just make it HARDER to get a map you want if it's in a realm with a variation (I again point to the Mine. I would love the get that map since it looks really cool instead of multiple Resorts back to back). I will say though, your statement to Cryptic does have some validity to it, but I'm not sure DbD's spaghetti code would be able to manage it considering the game was never built with variations in mind.
- Unless you're able to pull a new player out of a hat, I'm not sure what kind of tangible proof you're looking for here. However, I can apply basic theory and common sense. Every 1.5-3 months (depending on whether or not they want to throw a Survivor only mid-chapter in for some reason), up to 6 new perks, and entire new character, and potentially a new map get added to the game. And when you add map variations, that only compounds how daunting it all gets. The loops are procedurally generated, and could perhaps be more procedural, but you're still able to learn the main layout of the map over time, which is good game design. But suddenly, you get a map that has the same name as another map and all of the same structures, but has an entirely different layout. Not only do you have to learn this entirely new layout, you have to figure out how to differentiate between them when you do get them (especially since I don't remember seeing any of the Ormond maps being numbered like Badham was, but that could be me being annoyed at not getting the Mine… again). That is the exact opposite of good game design. And since BHVR seems to actually be trying to improve the new player experience for once, not having 13 tweaked versions of other maps to memorize will only benefit newcomers. The rest of these issues I don't think can be addressed (kind of a natural part of being a live service game), but it's something.
- Maybe it's just the autism speaking here, but I'm not sure why this needed to be a separate point. So… refer to point 3.
- Perhaps I worded this wrong, but the fact that you are one of only THREE people I've seen complain tells me all I need to know. I suppose I will concede this one though, since I sure as hell didn't ask for D&D and still wound up with my favorite Killer and Survivor out of it.
- After my initial statement you quoted, you're just putting words into my mouth. I never claimed that BHVR WILL better balance the maps (although, as we'll get to with point 7, I do believe it will be better than the nothing it currently is). What gives you the idea that BHVR is under no impression that the maps were awful? You keep asking for proof for everyone's claims, but unless you work on BHVR's map team, I don't think you'll be able to provide proof of your own. Absence of evidence (in this case, not directly saying the maps were bad) is not evidence of absence.
- Having more map variants would actually make things harder for BHVR. Instead of, say Badham, having 5 versions to constantly check and update, they have ONE, singular version to monitor. That puts CONSIDERABLY less work on the map balance teams and does allow them to more quickly change maps that are problematic rather than trying to figure out if changing something on one structure to fix one variation winds up screwing up all of the other variations (since they're the same tiles, any change to one would affect the others). Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but again, BHVR does seem to be trying to listen to the community for once.
Personally, I think the way they're doing things with Forsaken Boneyard, having Dead Sands be a "variation" of Eyrie while still having its own unique identity, to be the correct way to go about variations (whether Dead Sands is actually any good balance wise right now has yet to be decided).
I understand your perspective, and normally I'd agree that removing content is the wrong way to go. This is just not one of those times. But again, I don't expect to change your opinion and I don't think you'll be able to change mine, or really anyone else's, since you're basically off in your own corner on this.
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About time. The only thing they did was make learning the maps harder, and in the case of Ormond, borderline impossible to get the Mine (I've literally only been on it ONCE since it released).
I never did figure out which Badham was which, and I was around to see their creation (and hated their inception even back then).
All they did was serve as bloat that made the game less accessible to players. No one asked for them, so many people outright called them a hindrance to game accessibility, and they were just a downright bad idea from start to finish. Maybe now they can actually balance the maps as they are instead of band-aid fixing them by making them less common (okay, we know that will never happen, but my point stands: instead of having to balance multiple variations of one map, they can focus on what makes that map bad IN THE FIRST PLACE!)
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As Killer, I would say so. If you're that devoted to one Killer, you're probably going to be pretty good with them and know all of their tricks.
As Survivor, absolutely not. I have video evidence of the quote unquote "First every P100 Ada Main" (who, last I checked a few months ago, hadn't streamed in months, and it in fact took me forever to reverse-engineer a search for him since I don't remember his name) and his bully squad:
- Last second-switch to their high-levels
- Pick the map they were going to
- Be generally toxic in their speech towards me
- Harass me the entire game with their flashlights while the one solo queue who was stuck with them did everything
- Call me a r***** and baby killer with no brain cells after I messed up a mindgame (that the Nancy STILL went down to by the way)
- Lose to a perkless, add-onless… WRAITH of all Killers, during the time that he could be Lightburned…
I've seen more P100s be the weakest link on the team than I have anyone else. It means nothing.
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First Mains: Min and Doctor
Current Main: I'm currently trying to get everyone to P6 (maybe P9) only spending points earned by them on them, so by that standard, Ash & Doctor are my highest. If we're going by who I'm GOING to play once all the dust has settled, Baermar & Vecna.
Fav Map: Toba Landing
Fav Perks: Bardic Inspiration and Mad Grit
Fav Item: I guess Med-kit, but I really don't bring items in most of my matches unless I'm doing a specific archive.
Fav Chapter: If it wasn't for how questionable it is as a horror IP, D&D. But because it IS so questionable, I'd probably have to say Cursed Legacy (I hate Lery's too much for Spark of Madness).
My highest prestige is Doctor at 9. Not even close to 100, and I really don't play that much anymore because college and other games have my full attention right now.
Hours: 2192.8 according to Steam
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Pixel hates it, so it already has my seal of approval. But since I'm pretty sure you want more solid feedback than making on of your most problematic content creators (misrepresentation of lore, spreading genuinely DANGEROUS misinformation regarding certain characters [most notably Nurse & Jonah], garbage gameplay takes, and general self-righteous attitude), I'll give what I can.
Drones 2.0
This sounds like the old Scouting Mode Drones. I'm assuming Survivors scanned will show up on the Radar, without the obnoxious AoE status circle she had prior (speaking as someone who really enjoyed the first iteration for its Totem defense capabilities, Active Mode is what made her so obnoxious to go against). I like it.
Drone Control
There's a lot here to take in. First off, the drones can ACTUALLY BE DRONES! They always looked incredibly stupid just floating in place, when they should have been able to move around from the start. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see what happens when Power runs out, but I'm assuming it either returns to Skully or goes into a cooldown similar to current Hacking. This part I really like.
What I'm not a fan of is the Drone Propulsion being an attack and removing Lock On/Claw Traps. Which apparently all of the Skully mains who suddenly crawled out of the woodwork agree on. Using the Drones as kamikaze bombs doesn't seem right for her character (and opens up way too many issues with drone strikes, but that's neither here nor there). I like the idea of the Drones being mobile traps that she can reposition remotely. Removing the Haste is probably for the best, as it was incredibly confusing and completely out of both her control and that of the Survivor she's chasing, but turning her into yet another dash killer, while probably fun to use, will just be boring.
What I would do is keep the Claw Traps, and have her either fire them manually from Drones she's controlling (similar to Singularity, who really shouldn't have been the camera Killer instead of the actual surveillance Killer anyway) or having them automatically attach after a certain Lock On. Not sure how I'd change Claw Traps themselves though.
Drone Hacking
Not a fan of the aura reading. There should be some reward for Hacking besides just disabling a Drone, but this isn't it.
Red Light, Green Light
This sounds really fun, but unless she gets some other bonus during this time, it's kind of a worse Doctor Blast that hits the whole map. Which is fine, it needs some kind of weakness to make up for that fact, but unless normal walking also triggers it, it lacks real power.
Overall
I do think this version of Skull Merchant is much more fun to go against and will probably be pretty fun to play with. This comes from someone who, despite all of his efforts and despite hating literally every aspect of her character from her design to her name to her power on a conceptual level, placed her as his 6th favorite Killer, I'm glad what was an objectively terrible and unhealthy power is being removed, but I do wish she could be more of a mobile trap Killer. It feels more in character for her than just another Dash Killer, but this time from remote drones.
From a personal perspective, 6/10. However, from a making problematic content creators angry perspective, 25/10.
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I'm mostly in agreement, barring two licenses that really don't belong here (Nick Cage & Tomb Raider), but at least those don't deviate TOO far (predominantly horror actor and inspiration from the one storyline that's horror adjacent).
D&D is an odd one, but it's a mostly blank canvas to tell any kind of story you like, and I believe horror is one of the most popular story types, plus Ravenloft exists (and would have been better than Vecna, but I understand not wanting Strahd when Dracula's around the corner). Castlevania is probably not a standard horror series, but it takes inspiration from so many classic horror creatures that it deserves a spot in the "Horror Hall of Fame". And Tokyo Ghoul is a GENUINE action-horror manga/anime that fits in just as well as the classic slashers.
People are going to gatekeep what "horror" is because their closemindedness leads to discrediting a medium they dislike (seriously, how difficult is it to understand that animation is a medium and not a genre, I mean, it's happening in this very thread), but that doesn't change the validity of any horror series coming in. I've got no attachment to Tokyo Ghoul, but if it opens the doors for something like Hellsing or Elfen Lied, I'm all for it. Plus, with most of the popular western slashers used up, BHVR's going to need to expand, and anime is one of the most popular art forms they can draw from, like it or not.
And with FNAF coming in, the doors to Indie Horror are wide open for so many other series (though the only one I can think of is Bendy).
@Mikeyboi1225 said:
The Sadako in DBD is actually from the original Ringu novel instead of a movie, if I'm not mistaken.
BHVR had access to the books when making the chapter, but they have confirmed that they pretty much exclusively used the movies when someone reached out for information (link wasn't being allowed, so it's not clickable, but everything's there).
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1i59o22/bhvr_support_confirms_that_the_sadako_rising/
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I believe the idea is to be able to quickly move the Boon around to where you need it if you must relocate, though it's more of a Boon to run with other Boons like Exponential or Shadow Step rather than on its own.
I find it's normal effect (showing chests and gens) pretty underrated, but there are better Boons to run if you're only picking one.
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I remember when Pinhead released. It was the most fun I had with a new Killer since… maybe Legion, and I wouldn't get that rush again until Vecna (who actually did successfully supplant Doctor as my #1 main, which Pinhead did fail at). He's still one of my favorite Killers, even if I have been an extended hiatus from burnout and BHVR's decisions last year and having found a new game that I'm very much enjoying.
This, however, does not surprise me in the slightest. I've actually expected it ever since McCote stated that Hellraiser can never get anything new during one of The King's interviews. If anything, I'm surprised that he lasted THIS long (Stranger Things got removed only two years into it's time in DBD, Pinhead's been around nearly double that). And his perks being available to everyone can only be good, since they range from good at worst (Gift of Pain) to meta (Deadlock), and Killer's needed some free slowdown perks since Surge returned. Further, it's JUST Pinhead that'll leave. We're not losing a map or any Survivor.
What is unfortunate is that I don't see him ever coming back. Stranger Things returned because of how beloved it was and how vocal people were about wanting it back. Pinhead is probably the most niche license in the game, and his release was rocky at best, with all the NFT shenanigans Boss Protocol brought (that even caught SEVERAL BHVR devs off-guard). He's also not particularly popular on either side, having one of the highest skill floors in the game for half the reward that Nurse or Blight could get with equivalent practice, while also being incredibly rough for solo queue to go against. His license situation is also all over the place between Park Avenue and Clive Barker making it almost impossible to renegotiate anything. And then there's the fact that it is JUST Pinhead that's leaving. There's no incentive to bring him back for a map that never saw the light of day or a Survivor that never existed.
It's sad that new people won't get to play him (and how short notice this was, Stranger Things had 3 months and a day between announcement and removal, Hellraiser's only getting one), but it's not that surprising given his history in the game.
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I wouldn't worry too much about most licenses.
- Valve openly lets their IPs be used as long as they aren't profited on, which is why Bill is free.
- Lions Gate is very open with Saw, to the point that they were the first licensed tome, and I feel Remedy is in a similar situation with Alan Wake.
- Ash (or at least his puppet) is integrated pretty solidly into an original story, so I can't see him leaving as they would have to scrub him from three entries and still have the story make sense.
- Fun World loves Ghost Face being in DBD, and has even turned several DBD original masks into proper costumes.
- Konami clearly sees DBD as a money printer with how much Silent Hill content we got, further strengthened by another IP in Castlevania, which also got an entire tome.
- Capcom has given us TWO chapters FROM THE SAME FRANCHISE, plus they literally gave the ok for them to be in 2v8.
- Kadokawa literally considers Sadako & Yoichi's presence in DBD to be canon.
- Disney and Hasbro, scummy as they are, LOVE money, so I think Alien and Dungeons & Dragons are safe.
- BHVR has worked with Universal multiple times prior to Chucky coming in.
- Nick Cage came in both because he LOVES Sadako and also because his son plays the game (which, as much as I hate his inclusion as real people shouldn't be in games like this, is really sweet).
So that leaves us with Halloween, Leatherface, Nightmare on Elm Street, Stranger Things and Tomb Raider being up in the air. Assuming those license holders love money, I don't see most of them leaving anytime soon (except maybe Stranger Things, considering Netflix aren't the brightest bulbs out there), and Tomb Raider is too recent to really say anything about.
Pinhead was just in an odd situation, as his license was negotiated with Park Avenue right before the rights got passed back to Clive Barker, and he's now in a Jason situation where different people own different parts of him and are impossible to work with. This isn't indicative of most licenses, and there is no reason to jump the gun and immediately assume we're suddenly going to lose more licenses… again.
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Very simple design (Just guy in hoodie, leather jacket and a very basic mask, I literally made this costume for 2019 Halloween with just a jacket, hoodie, and a paper plate, though Susie & Joey are a bit trickier) that's also easily marketable.
Very simple gameplay loop that still manages to be very enjoyable (You run around and stab stuff, what better adrenaline rush is there).
A lot of opportunities for lore expansion (Albeit almost never successfully, I'm pretty sure they get retconned every other update, I mean wasn't Susie's whole thing that she was originally unwilling?)
Longevity (They still feel like the new kids on the block to me, but they've been around for well over half the game's lifespan, which just makes me feel old).
Demographic (Let's face it, most of DBD's playerbase is late teens to early twenties, which is basically the exact demographic of Legion's own ages).
Music (Very popular genre of music for their theme, plus they're the only ones who can alter their Terror Radius).
Just general vibe (Edgelord teens who just want to rebel).
There's probably more that I can't think of, but I think this covers a good chunk of why Legion, one of the most upopular Killers, is also one of the most popular Killers.
Oh, and that jacket I used for my Legion costume… I still use it 6 years later. It's very comfortable.
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If you're not using the visual terror radius, you are literally putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Several terror radii start off so quiet that they're barely noticeable, or are so difficult to tell the difference between stages that it's impossible to tell how close they are until they're right on top of you.
The lullabies are so often so faint that they're impossible to notice, and in the case of Trickster, so similar to his terror radius that it's virtually indistinguishable.
Then there's the fact that it hard counters several Killers (Sadako being the biggest example, but Twins, Houndmaster, Freddy and Dracula all suffer).
You still need to pay attention for the properly Undetectable Killers, but you gain so much information from one setting change.
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I love how Eyrie is SO AESTHETICALLY BAD, that despite the numerous caged off graves, mausoleums, general stone architecture and the fact that the realm is literally called the Forsaken BONEYARD… only FIVE comments even mention it (and one of those is OP being in shock that it's a graveyard at all).
Sorry folks, but I get the feeling there won't be a proper spooky graveyard map, and we've got to put up with whatever Eyrie is.
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Survivors who go against Freddy aren't actually fully awake, they're in a state of drifting between microsleep (it's why Freddy can actually interact with them in the first place and what the timers on their portrait represent). It's not unlikely that Freddy's powers can hit them in this state, considering how he hunted Nancy in the aisles. It's actually got more validity than the popular suggestion of reverting him to manually putting people to sleep, which is something that Freddy has NEVER ONCE done in any of the movies.
I'd normally agree that any alarm clock waking you up is bad, but the fact that Freddy will be able to teleport to sleeping Survivors who are healing kind of necessitates being awake before you heal, which will probably start wearing on the clocks. It'll have to be a "wait and see" thing.
There is nothing that states how many tokens there are anywhere in the post. They do what you fear, or they may increase the number of tokens, or they may keep the tokens separate, or they may do both. We don't know until the PTB how this will work.
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Smoe's already done a good job explaining why none of the "Entity Destoyers" are actually up to par, so I'll leave that alone, but the answer to why people actually believe these things can be chalked up to multiple things, all of which kind of lead into each other:
- A refusal to actually read the lore themselves coupled with a lack of critical thinking.
- The community's incredible ability to take any an all theories at complete face value and accept them as canon (Dredge being a miniature Entity or Pyramid Head causing damage to the Entity being the two big ones I can think of) BECAUSE they refuse to read the lore themselves, which then leads into them not reading the lore because they think they already know it.
- Content creators who basically advertise themselves as "lore experts" who have a habit of adding their own spin on the lore instead of actually telling it how it is, which not only leads to complete those nonsense theories being taken as pure fact due to their reach and influence, but also leads to misinformation surrounding characters (which can also be genuinely dangerous in the case of Jonah and Nurse) because people DON'T READ THE LORE THEMSELVES AND THEN CALL THEMSELVES EXPERTS AND REFUSE TO READ IT. Pixel's probably the worst offender (he's definitely the biggest creator), but I don't think ANY of them are actually reliable.
Basically, the people who actually care about the lore get drowned out by those who only care about the sparknotes version, which leads to fact and theory getting all jumbled up, capitalized on by content creators for clout because they KNOW that people will go to them first and actually read for themselves never.
This is how we end up with stupid theories like the Entity being terrified of MYERS of all people when he's pretty bottom of the barrel in terms of power, or Pyramid Head being a parasite who tortures the Entity, or cosmic-level Sadako, or Dredge being a juvenile version of the Entity, and I could honestly just write an entire novel with how many of these there are.
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1 - Dredge. I wouldn't have an issue (and in fact would probably place it high up in my "fun to go against" list) if it wasn't for my experience with Nightfall, where one sessions against it on Midwich led to a throbing headache and the feeling of needles in my eyes for the next three matches or so. Needless to say, I've made the rule of "Match one: play normal, but don't bother struggling; Match two: play normal, but go next once caught; Match three: DC and I'm done for the night;" because I don't feel like putting myself through actual physical pain (and thankfully, no one plays Dredge, so I've RARELY seen more than one in a session when I do run into it).
2 - Daytime maps. While Dredge strains my vision by focusing my eyes on the center of the screen, daytime maps have the opposite effect. Loading into them is the equivalent of being flashbanged due to my eyes being incredibly sensitive to bright lights (I get blinded by the eye doctor equipment designed SPECIFICALLY for sensitive eyes). They also don't make sense thematically, as the game is called Dead BY Daylight, not Dead IN Daylight. The lore issue is blown completely out of proportion by people who don't bother understanding that everything in the realms, including the "sun" is the Entity, but everything else bothers me.
3 - Archives post-Skull Merchant. Namely three things: The fact that BHVR just dropped the titles for no reason, leading to such thrilling stories as: "Gabriel Soma: Memory Fragments" or "Carmina Mora: Memory Fragments" or "Dracula: Memory Fragments" as compared to actual interesting titles like "Exile of the Kingdom" or "Doors Unknown" or "The Importance of Being King"; The completely jumbled up order of the memories themselves, where before they would go "384 - 385 - 386 - … - 391 - 392 - 393" (the actual order of "The Importance of Being King") they now go "2001 - 2500 - 2665 - 2233 - 2049 - 2313 - 2799" (the actual order of "Hux-07-13: Memory Fragments"); The visual memories that completely stunt the flow of the story being told while also adding nothing of value and taking up space that could be used to actually give the story a conclusion (which "Gabriel Soma: Memory Fragments" NEVER GOT). I've genuinely not finished any archive since Hux & Gabriel (other than slogging through Oni & Deathslinger for the Killer TImeline that I keep, the latter of which was nearly three months later), because these three things have just killed any interest I had, and that's without mentioning how little I care about the current story with Saku, who lost any interest from me the moment she relatively effortlessly decapitated Oni, or the Hailey and Jaden story with far less meaning to it than Old Lady Haddie and Max investigating the Entity's cults.
4 - The community. I'd be writing a full length novel if I had to explain everything I dislike here, but the highlights include: Blind following of content creators without being able to form own opinions; constant whining about having to play against some Killers differently and refusing the adapt; constant whining about the tools available to Survivors and refusing to adapt; certain individuals (who will go unnamed) who are just insufferable for a variety of reasons; the constant misinformation about the lore being spread by a small group of content creators that everyone takes as gospel because they lack reading comprehension; and just general toxicity.
5 - BHVR's ineptitude and ego. I've been here since 2018. I've seen firsthand how BHVR is, frankly, really bad at making this game. Every update is riddled with the most ridiculous bugs (recent example, my Survivor main can't wear his sweater because it's trying to play his counterpart's voice lines). They make the most pointless changes that no one asked for and make the game worse (lobby HUD making switching characters a chore). They make completely unnecessary changes to Killers and perks that most people agreed were fine (Chucky's current state and the Thrill changes that everyone was whining about). There is no quality control and they keep pumping out content so fast that they can't keep up with it (why do we keep getting Survivor-only paragraphs in mid-chapters now?) And then they have the audacity to beg for Labor of Love because they can't get it through their thick, corporate skulls that no one with more than three brain cells would willingly vote for them.
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@Malkhrim said:
For the same reason Hawkins doesn't share a map offering with Treatment Theatre/Lery's. Maps of the same realm usually have a similar aesthetic that makes the realm identifiable.
Woods at nighttime? Macmillan State.
A sunny farm with a cornfield? Coldwind Farm.
A junkyard? Autohaven Wreckers.
Ice, snow and skiing equipment? Ormond.
Japanese buildings and vegetation? Yamaoka State
A garden full of bushes and an old building that seems normal at first glance but there's something off about it? Withered Isle (this one is the least similar one because of the sky having different colors, but the similarities are still very noticeable).
Nostromo Wreckage and Toba Landig's only similarity is that they take place on sci-fi buildings on an alien planet, which SOUNDS similar, but the aesthetic of each map is completely different. One is dark, gray and full of rocks the other one is colorful, predominantly pink and purple, full of strange-looking alien plants. They look nothing alike. The only way for both of them to share a map offering would have been for Toba's Landing to have a more rocky-grey aesthetic from start, but that would have limited the creativity of the team way too much and even Singularity's design would have needed to be different (he literally matches the colors of the map).
Not saying you don't have a point (because you very much do), but Léry's and Hawkins are their own distinct realms while Toba and Nostromo, despite literally every single aspect about them, from the tile aesthetics, to the intro music to the HOOK DESIGNS (which even the considerably different Withered Isle maps share), being so different, are both considered part of the Dvarka Deepwood realm.
It's stupid, inconsistent with the rest of the game's logic, and irritates me to no end, but this is how it is.
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@MrMori said:
Maybe it's a license thing where licensed maps need to have their own map offerings.
Counterpoint, Vecna's map has the same offering as Knight's map. So it's probably more of a Disney thing.
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Oh boy, where to even start with this one… and why am I even bothering when I know what your reaction's going to be?
"With one single skill, he can AoE scan the map."
No. He can scan in his Terror Radius. This is why many bring Distressing and small map offerings, because he struggles on larger maps.
"After doing so this adds madness to players they cannot remove. At all. It cannot be countered in any way. This also gives him your location."
How to counter Static Blast. Are you in his Terror Radius? If yes, has he used the ability recently? If no, look for a locker if you're afraid of getting hit.
"He can spam his ability, and max your madness, leave you, and spam the next guy."
Frankly, if a Doctor's spamming his ability like this, then leaving you, he's a bad Doctor. Shock Therapy is not a tool used for maxing Madness. It's a tool for preventing vaults and pallet drops.
"Again. You can only remove tier 3. So you're always going to have goofy skill checks. Which are actually way too difficult to land."
Sure, you can only remove tier 3, but you go back to tier 1 (I'll cover your terrible attempt at gaslighting LordGlint in a minute). Also, you're complaining about the literal only Killer in the game who can use Skill Check builds effectively (and are still outclassed by 80% of other builds), and they're really not that bad unless he's using specific perks.
"DBD isn't played by people all as skilled as me. 60% of the players are awful. That means they become incapable of playing with the game completely."
This point is valid. This point also applies to 80% of the Killers we have. Doctor's a noobstomper, and he's not even the strongest one. Also, saying "as skilled as me" does not lead to the credibility you probably think it does.
"The doctors ability makes you see fake doctors."
Which he can only see in when you're in Madness III or with Restraint add-ons, which are frankly some of his weakest.
"The doctors ability to makes you see fake pallets. Again. Uncountered. Best you can do is remember the pallets you used, aaaaaand good luck with that."
Only with the Order add-ons. And also countered by using your eyes, as fake pallets always have the broken scraps of the original pallets left behind. And before you try gaslighting me, I loaded into a custom match at 2 in the morning SPECIFICALLY to prove my point and acquired some screenshots (oh, and I'm going to also show the file names of both for a reason that will quickly become apparent, though honestly, I don't think it's necessary by the sheer amount of other evidence that shows the order they were taken).
Since they also don't appear to be shown by Zanshin either (a bit hard to tell with their aura being white instead of Zanshin's normal yellow, but I'm pretty confident in this), I'm willing to bet Windows of Opportunity, a VERY popular Survivor perk, probably doesn't reveal them either, but that's not exactly something I'm able to test, since I
- Only run it on TWO Survivors (Nea and Felix), neither of whom I play regularly.
- Don't exactly run into Doctor that much at my MMR.
- Don't feel like booting up matches at 2 in the morning in hopes of running into a Doctor running these add-ons or harassing my friends to custom for 5 minutes from the Survivor perspective.
"This is the BIGGEST issue. He has too many abilities in one skill. No other killer has anything this over complicated with their skill. It's one effect, and it's counterable in multiple ways."
Wait till someone teaches you about Pig, Pinhead, Sadako, Knight, Singularity, Vecna, Dracula, and hell, even FREDDY. And these are just the immediate noobstompers I can think of that all have multiple complex things going on in their kits (Pig's crouching & dashing coupled with the RBTs, Pinhead's chains coupled with the Box, Singularity's camera's, teleportation, Overclocked mode, and EMPs, Dracula's three forms, Freddy's teleportation, snares, dream world mechanics, and even add-ons that COMPLETELY change his power, etc.)
And before we cover your last original statement, I want to call everyone's attention over to OP's amateur attempt at gaslighting and how my screenshots render it null and void.
"NO. You go to madness 2."
Observe my screenshots, specifically the Nea and the Mikaela. In the first screenshot, we see Mikaela in Madness 2 and Nea in Madness 3. But in the next screenshot, Nea is very clearly in Madness ONE, NOT TWO. If you're going to lie about something (ironic considering how they accused LordGlint of lying immediately after this), make sure it's not something that's literally stated IN HIS POWER DESCRIPTION (screenshot again for proof).
"As it stands anyone who plays doctors IS unbeatable. IS. Not can be. Not hard to beat. Unbeatable. Those skills are rigged. I play him, you literally can't lie to me. It's over the top."
This is especially funny, since I've been a Doctor main since I started playing back in the summer of 2018, when he had to switch between Punishment (basic M1 Killer with no power) and Treatment (Passive Madness gain in Terror Radius and Shock Therapy) until Xeno & Vecna came out and I jumped to my favorite horror icon and a license I grew up on respectively. And, since I've not really had the time to play as I used to due to college, he's STILL my highest level (coming from someone with all but Houndmaster at least P3 by only spending bloodpoints earned by them on them). I know from experience that, at BEST, he's a low B-Tier Killer with very little map pressure, zero mobility, and an okay anti-loop who only makes it this high because he has one of the best tracking powers and an okay passive slowdown.
On the other hand, we have you, who CLEARLY doesn't have that level of experience, claiming he's an S+++ tier Killer above the likes of Nurse and Blight, making wild claims that have been thoroughly debunked WITH EVIDENCE. If you play him and you think he's unbeatable, maybe your skill level isn't actually as high as you seem to think it is.