Malkhrim
Malkhrim
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- Malkhrim
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the recent MMR reset made you a litle more likely to get toxic comments… because my overall experience with toxicity in DbD is that it decreased over the years, as MMR was implemented and then became stricter over time, and also as the survivor role got nerfed and started requiring more skill.
Seriously, from 2017 to 2020, I remember toxicity was almost every match. All the time, regardless of winning or losing, there was someone insulting me for "camping and tunneling" even when I actively avoided chasing a recently unhooked survivor. Bringing certain perks (like NOED) was almost certain to being met with thrashtalking in the endgame chat as well. On the lattest years,, that has become way more rare, I sometimes play for whole nights without meeting a single toxic comment… but after the MMR reset, suddenly it feels I'm meeting thrashtalkers with some frequency again. Not as much as in old DbD, but more than it was a month ago.
I think that's because a lot of toxicity in this game comes from people who don't want to learn and become better at the game, but instead blame their poor performance on the game or on the oponent not following their made up rules. Good players usually just understand that some less fun playstiles are part of the game and don't get angry at the oponent for wanting to win.
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@Oputeev_Stas said:
m1 killers huh? they all have anti loop powers if you can't play them well ofc you are gonna lose, killer players these days only wanna win every match like in Halloween game jeez and close you chat if you dont wanna see…
Saying this on a forum thread that is not about balance, but about toxicity, only tells me you are probably just as toxic as the people in the screenshots.
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When I tried launching the game, my antivirus thought the Shipping file was a trojan and deleted it immediately, causing the launch to fail.
I managed to get the game launched after I allowed it on my antivirus, but I've been noticing the game has been occasionally freezing and stuttering since this update. This wasn't happening before.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111640#Comment_4111640
I think every killers power goes up elevation now aside from Twins, Doctor, (and possibly Nemesis?)
Does Demogorgon's pounce go up stairs too? And do Freddy's dream snares work in elevations?
Either way, it's not just the ability to go up, many killer powers behave weirdly on stairs. Billy, Demogorgon and Blight all have this weird interaction that, if they are going down stairs, a survivor in their way can completely avoid being hit by crouching. Or at least that's how it used to be, I don't know if it has been fixed at some point. -
Wait, does it go up stairs too?
Because you know, a lot of killers could use that buff too. My first thought is Viktor. -
@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110074#Comment_4110074
This is just outright false. It is incredible that people say Tunneling is a Skill Issue and then type something like this. If you're a good survivor player you're walking as much as possible and trying to get your exhaustion perk back online, Vigil helps you do that. you're just saying that Tunneling has reached such an oppressive state that no matter what you won't get Vigil value because you're going down before that which isn't a good argument it just points towards a glaring problem. IF the killer tunneling you is causing effects like hindered, you will recover from it faster… and the point I am making is that its an Adjacent perk to Anti Tunnel Builds, not something run in pure Anti Tunnel Builds.
The Choices for Build Creativity are just getting (and have been getting) narrowed for no reason at all, what if A survivor doesn't want to run a full anti tunnel build but wants a good generalized perk to help a little bit in the case that they do but will also give value if they don't? Vigil was one of those options. Survivors ONLY have the benefit of perks to diversify playstyle as half of their six item choices are nearly useless when compared to Toolbox, Medkit, or Flashlight and there are options for killers already to totally nullify or significantly hinder these items. why are we allowing killers multiple layers of freedom of creativity in builds but narrowing the survivors only avenue of build changes? It is a double standard.If you're a good survivor player you're walking as much as possible and trying to get your exhaustion perk back online, Vigil helps you do that.
If the killer is actually pressuring you, that won't happen with or without Vigil. If the killer ACTUALLY tunnels you and is actually pressuring you, you won't get to walk for a total of 24 seconds and free your exhaustion perk, unless the killer is playing badly and being looped to a point being tunneled is not even a problem anymore. If you had less than full exhaustion when the chase started, then the killer wasn't tunneling you. A perk having value once in a while against bad killers doesn't make it an anti-tunnel perk.
you're just saying that Tunneling has reached such an oppressive state that no matter what you won't get Vigil value because you're going down before that
You do realize you don't need to down a survivor to prevent them from recovering from exhaustion, right? You only need to not give them time to walk or stand still… which they are not supposed to get much in a chase anyway. One thing is stopping in check-spots a few times and reducing the timer a little bit, the other is getting almost half a minute standing still. And that is not a state that was "reached", not a "glaring problem" and not even something unique to tunneling (the thing about tunneling is: it suggests you're in chase right off the hook, so you don't get the downtime where you usually recover from exhaustion). It's been like that since exhaustion was nerfed to work like that all the way back in 2018: you're intended to use an exhaustion perk only once in a chase. If you manage to do it more than once, than the killer is doing something really wrong. If you are able to do it consistently, then the perk is working better than intended and it would be even more reason for a nerf. You are not supposed to consistently get a second use of an exhaustion perk.
IF the killer tunneling you is causing effects like hindered, you will recover from it faster…
That's a huge IF. Again, the vast majority of builds DON'T have hindered as an effect. There's a chance you play for days without suffering from an actually impactful hindered effect once. And as I listed, lots of those other effects only trigger after the killer hooks someone else and are not effective for tunneling. So again, it's not a VIABLE OPTION against tunneling like you said.
and the point I am making is that its an Adjacent perk to Anti Tunnel Builds, not something run in pure Anti Tunnel Builds.
Well, that's not what you said at first. You suggested Vigil was a VIABLE OPTION against tunneling. If the perk normally doesn't even do anything while being tunneled but has an effect that some rare times gets value in chase and some even rarer times gets that value on a chase while you're being tunneled, then it's not a viable option against tunneling. By that logic, then any survivor perk that does anything in chase, as minor and rare as it is, is suddenly a viable option against tunneling… which then implies the game still has many.
The Choices for Build Creativity are just getting (and have been getting) narrowed for no reason at all
Now you're changing the subject, but funny enough, now you recognize there ARE still viable options against tunneling and Vigil wasn't one of them to begin with. And anyway your claim of "double standard" is false. Killers get perks nerfed just as often as survivors. That includes perks being taken off the meta, but also perks being nerfed into uselessness too. Thrill of the Hunt is getting a nerf this patch too, but the last time it was nerfed in the past was much harder than that and made the perk useless for years after getting a feature from it removed to stop it from countering boons, which were being introduced to the game. Eruption was nerfed until it became much weaker than it was at release (while Vigil is actually still stronger than it's original version), Coulrophobia was recently nerfed and Sloppy Butcher was nerfed by the Mangled update. Franklin's Demise got gutted into being weaker than ever even thought it was a niche perk, the only reason for it was the change for item charges, but it did not get a new effect to compensate for it like Streetwise did. Save the Best for last was one of the few consistently useful chase perks for killers and got nerfed too after negative feedback from survivors. All the slugging perks got changed to something else entirely to appease survivors too.
The thing is, both sides get perks nerfed from time to time for many different reasons and that has caused the meta to narrow in certain times, yes, but also to widen in others. The thing about survivor perks is that their strongest perks were always so ridiculously strong that it's hard to make comparable perks in strenght for people to pick in their place. Back in the old days they were straight up overpowered and even then the devs were always careful not to nerf them too hard and make them still viable… and that's why they kept getting nerfed more and more, because they were too strong and were never gutted at once, not because the devs have something against survivors. That applies to CoH, Dead Hard and Sprint Burst, all mentioned in this post, but also to DS. Killer perks were nerfed more often and that lead the killer meta to change very often while survivor meta kept mostly unchanged. It started changing on the patch that gave us the first major perk overhaul, and what's been clear since then is that the devs are taking a lot of feedback from both sides and nerfing stuff from both sides accordingly.
Plus, you don't have to play in the meta. I NEVER play with anti-slugging builds and I only play solo queue, I can still handle myself fine and get a lot of value from other builds. While playing killer, while there are still lots of DHs and DSs, I still see a bigger perk variety than I used to before the perk overhaul, because what people forget is that the devs also buffed tons of perks over recent years to widen the survivor playstile. Vigil is being nerfed now after being one of these buffed perks.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109981#Comment_4109981
yeah so If you don't think that a perk made to decrease exhaustion time has any notable effect in surviving being tunneled that's kind of sad. I can't imagine how a perk to reduce the cooldowns of distance making perks as well as ease the effects of things like hindered might help someone out who is being tunneled. the point I made without voicing it verbatim is that there goes yet another alternative option to the same perks we already see over and over again.
If you're ACTUALLY being tunneled, you'll get one use of the exhaustion perk off the hook and nothing else, because the killer won't drop you and you will not recover from exhaustion EVEN if you have Vigil, so the perk will do NOTHING for you there. If the killer is NOT tunneling you, however, then you will recover from exhausted more often and get far more value from the perk. Plus, other status effects it acts against are mostly useful against people who are NOT being tunneled:
Exposed: tunneled people often don't get time to heal, and perks that inflict it are far mostly used against people who where not on the hook recently or are not being tunneled: Friends Til the End, Make Your Choice and Ravenous trigger the exposed affect either when someone is hooked and unhooked. Starstruck triggers when the killer is carrying another survivor, Dragon's Grip triggers on a survivor doing a gen. Haunted Grounds is a 1-time use and it would be a waste to use on a recently hooked person that is either still injured or could have DS.
Broken: Most of the stuff that inflict this trigger it uppon being injured in chase. It won't make a difference right off the hook, and if you heal of tha hook and THEN suffer broken, the killer will not drop you if the intention is tunneling you.
Hemorrage and Mangled: the only situation when they do something against a tunneled survivor is when they still have time to heal before the killer returns to the hook. Hard tunnelers won't let that happen anyway, and with how long mangled effects last, you'll still have it off the hook anyway, even with Vigil.
Oblivious: only useful when you don't expect the killer to be near you, so not when you're being tunneled.
Blindness: rarely does anything anyway, perks and add-ons that inflict it are very underused. If you're in chase, it's only useful against specific perks.
Hindered: the one you mentioned. Only 4 perks with a very low usage rate inflict it. Add-ons that do it have a small effect and are usually not that popular either. So it's only CONSISTENTLY useful against Clown and Freddy, and the pick rates of both together don't even reach 3%.
So no, Vigil was never a viable option against tunneling. It's extremely rare for it to do anything against it and is far stronger and more valuable when you are NOT being tunneled.
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@DodoSwarm said:
"If you can't escape tunneling its a skill issue"
Yeah or they're just gutting viable options to play against it one by one…These perks were not anti-tunneling measures. Most of them are stronger when you are not tunneled.
Hell, Dead Hard BECAME an anti-tunelling perk after it was nerfed, as it's just not usable in early game now.Stop appealing to tunneling when talking about unrelated stuff.
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Honestly, it's hard to pick just 3. This game's art team does some truly amazing work.
Still, my favorite of all time is the Arachnid Mother:
Yes, I love spiders. But also, this charm's animations are great.
It is followed shortly by these two:
I love the Evil Dead franchise too.
The way the limbs are animated in this one is kinda creepy and insanely cool.
Well, these were my top three, but I also want to give some honorable mentions, simply because some charms are just too great to ignore:
Pulp Horror used to be my favorite book-shaped (or magazine, but you get what I mean) charm before the Necronomicon came along. The design and attention to detail are insane. The animated green glow moving underneath is the cherry on top.
Then, there are these three:
The Multitudinous Crow is beautiful, funny and very horror-themed at the same time with the whole angel-crow combination. Some details are not visible in this image, but it has three crow heads, and one big red eye emitting a weird yellow glow. Then there's the flavor text: "Be somewhat afraid".
I love greek myths and this is a very well-designed gorgon. Enough said.
And finally, the Bloodmoon Raven is just freaking beautiful. It's a shame it isn't animated, but a marvel to look at even without it, and it's even hung by this laced blood over it instead of the usual keychain.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107903#Comment_4107903
right, im sure behavior hates the majority of thweir userbase and revenue stream. why do poeple think behavior hates one specific portion of their users. this is such an absurd nonsense trope to push over and over and act like its any kind of sensible opinion
The fact your comment is getting so many downvotes just for saying this goes to show some people come to this forums just to rant and throw hate after they had bad matches. What you said is very obviously right, but somehow it seems it angered some people.
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Yes, but if it's a whole chapter again, I hope some of the options that got voted on phase 1 of this Grimoire are not available again.
Like sure, we can pick between a grounded, supernatural, otherworldly or chimeric killer again. But if "otherworldly" wins again, just don't put another "divine killer" option, so the voting can't end up with the same basic concept we already got with the Judgement.
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I feel the Judgement will be much stronger… but will require far more skill to play and an insane amount to master, while Jason is a quite simple and straightforward killer. So I expect Jason to have higher kill rates, at least in broad MMR. But I don't know, let's see what changes the devs are going to make to the Judgement when it actually goes live.
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@9volt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4106180#Comment_4106180
People will stop playing her literally no matter what, that's how it is with every new killer in this game. There are 44 characters in this game, the population will drop off of every single new release because that's just how it works. This is argument is meaningless.
And please behavior, I really love this killer as is, for the love of god do not make the prayer kneeler addon on base kit. It's a terrible idea for so many reasons
People will stop playing her literally no matter what, that's how it is with every new killer in this game.
Oh yeah? Let's see…
Wesker: reached 21% pick rate when he got released. Remained the top played killer for four chapters straight. Remained between 7% and 8% pick rates over a year after his release. Right now, oscilates between 3 and 5% pick rates, still more than most killers in the game.
Huntress: most picked killer according to the most recent official stats. 9 years old killer BTW. Springrap was the third most played almost a year after his release. Legion was the 4th most played 8 years after their release.
Twins: never even reached 4% pick rates, even on their release. Got less than 1% for most of their existence in the game. The Hag is down there with them.
Singularity: Never showed even 2% in any official stat release. According to Nightlight his own release, he peaked at 5% pick rates and quickly dropped to 1%.
Ghoul: 28% pick rate at release. Currently, it's still the most played killer on HIGH MMR according to official stats, where he gets 8.1%.
Houndmaster: 10% pick rate at release. Dropped to 4% in a month. Oscilates between 1% and below today.
Krasue: 10% pick rate on release, less than 2% a month later. Around 1% now.
As you can see, it's not the same for all, so it's not "meaningless"… which is pretty obvious. BHVR wouldn't even keep pick rate stats if it was meaningless. I wasn't even talking about pick rates naturally dropping from release, I was talking about killers who got ABANDONED very early, like Singularity and Krasue. Singularity and Twins were never even common, Krasue was abandoned in a month. And if you want to see the impact in game, just keep playing matches as survivor and see how long it takes to find a single Krasue and a single Singularity. Then compare to how many it took to find the first Legion, Springtrap or Ghoul, and how many of them did you get matched against before a single Krasue.
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@SnuglyPortia said:
I don't understand why Oni gets buffs in 2v8. His buff should be that there's 8 survivors to drain blood from, and that someone else can do the injuring for him.
I don't know why Behaviour doesn't understand that killers like Legion, Oni, Nemesis, and Hillbilly are inherently buffed in the mode with double the survivors. Don't expect them to realize this if they add Ghoul or Dredge to the game either.
He gets buffs because literally everyone, killer and survivor, gets buffs in this mode. There are more pallets, loops are safer, healing is faster, maps are bigger, survivors give sprint burst to everyone in an area in activation and also have more information about each other, can see killer's auras more often than any perks allows for except for Object of Obsession, and they also know when killers can see their auras.
Legion, Oni, Nemesis, and Hillbilly are inherently buffed in the mode with double the survivors.
They are not. Or at least not without getting nerfs at the same time.
Legion got more people to chain hits, sure, but they needed to hit twice as many survivors on a much bigger map to get a down. If it weren't for the buffs their power got in the mode, they would NEVER get those 8 chained hits. So not an inherent buff. People considered them problematic because they could team up with any killer and leave anyone injured for them, not because of double survivors alone.
About Oni, as I've explained above, the map is bigger and he has to walk more to get blood orbs, survivors heal faster and leave less blood orbs in singular spots, loops are bigger and safer and they can also rebuild pallets. So of course killer powers need to be stronger to catch survivors in them.
Nemesis was dog water in 2v8 until a while ago. He was literally considered the weakest 2v8 killer for a while. Only became crazy strong with the 4 zombies.
Hilbilly gets NOTHING from having more survivors on the map. He is not powered up in any way for having more survivors near him like Oni or Legion, but he still gets the disavantages that come with this game mode, like the extra safe loops and much bigger map. That is a inherent NERF to killers without mobility, not a buff to those that have it. That's why Nemesis was so weak at first and then got buffed.
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@ForTheEntity said:
Oni in 1v4 is fine because he is balanced by the fact that he only gets orbs from injuries he caused, addons he brings and whenever he gets a down in blood fury he has to choose to either slug or pick up and end his power. He often has to waste a lot of time carrying survivors to hooks.
In 2v8 afaik none of that is true. In all the games I've played vs Oni in 2v8 it always seemed like he could use blood fury to get 2-4 downs and have his partner do most of the caging with Oni maybe doing some caging when his power ended or was close to ending. Then Oni could spend mere seconds collecting more blood orbs and RAWR!-off he'd go again.
So his power should not work as easily as it does in 1v4, since every killer-teammate knows and is happy to follow his carnage and cage his slugs for him, while occasionally M1ing survivors to help him with the orbs or bodyblocking survivors so Oni can oneshot them.
For an Oni to get 3 downs with one use of his power in 2v8, those survivors have to play terribly, so they deserved those downs. One getting 4 downs is mathematically impossible unless he downs two survivors with one strike right before it ends, which is extremely unlikely to happen in any game, survivors would have to be grouped up on the worst timing possible while an Oni is downing people near them.
Blood Fury has the same duration in 2v8 as in 1v4, 45 seconds. But in 2v8 he loses 10 seconds every time he downs a survivor and he doesn't have add-ons to change any of that. And he has a 3 seconds cooldown after each successful hit.
Which means that, for him to down 3 survivors in one use of his power, he has to do it all in the span of 25 seconds, in a map that is far more pallet-dense than 1v4 maps and also has longer and safer loops that are shaped in ways that make them harder to mind-game or even turn around while dashing. He also has a 3 seconds cooldown after each successful hit, which means he will only have 19 seconds to do it. That is straight up only possible if the survivors are playing really badly.
Most of the time in 2v8, Oni just gets 2 downs with each use of Blood Fury. And healing is so much stronger in this mode it's far easier to reach the slugged survivor and get them up before he downs the second person and returns. For a power that requires charging, that is not too much at all.
His partner can only do the caging if they are together (which is often suboptimal. If the killers stay together the whole game, they won't spread the pressure and gens will fly) and even then, there are many in solo queue that don't pay attention to that. The only way of garanteeing a partner to pick up downs is to play with a friend. If Oni doesn't have that, we will have to slug in a game mode where slugging is much weaker. And again, slug ONE person and down another, rarely more than that.
Plus, people keep saying here that he gets too many orbs from too many survivors, but they forget the map is also much bigger and the Oni needs to walk more and waste more time to get blood orbs… in a game mode where gens can go insanely fast, and healing is also stronger and survivors have far more information about each other, which also makes easier to mitigate the amount of blood orbs. Hell, there are better ways of making sure Oni's power is available the whole match in 1v4 than 2v8. In 1v4 Oni has access to perks that inflict broken, mangled and other healing slowdowns. Survivors are often forced to do gens while injured and leave a ridiculous amount of blood orbs on the same place, so Oni can just pass by and fully recharge in just one spot instead of walking around collecting them. A similar thing happens when they self-heal. In 2v8, Oni has no perks and survivors doing gens are more often joined by others who see the aura and are quickly healed, so less orbs in one place.
So Oni is fine. At best he might need a few tweaks, but he's nowhere near this overpowered monstrosity people here are claiming he is.
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@Elan said:
Why are people so obsessed to make her easier? Just invest time to playing her, not every killer has to require 1 match to master. She will reward those who do by dominating matches.
Because we don't want the COMMUNITY-VOTED killer to be abandoned by the community and rarely ever seen in the game like Singularity and Krasue were. A killer being played only by tryhards who have an insane amount of time to spend playing the game while being awful to play for the far majority of players is not a good thing, specially on a chapter called the COMMUNITY MADE chapter, with a killer the whole DbD community helped to create and then spent months waiting for.
@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105874#Comment_4105874
What does playtime of any killer has common with their strenght? You won't master killers like Pinhead, Nurse or Pig in matter of hours either and people play them.
Btw speaking of Judgy's difficulty she negates whole game mechanics. She can't be easy to play. The killer instinct might be base kit, that's right but her overall power is fun and has learning curve.
I'm not talking about how hard it is to MASTER a killer, that's skill ceiling. I'm talking about skill FLOOR, the minimum skill required to even play the killer with any effectiveness. A killer having high skill ceiling means you can become even better the more time you dedicate to learn them. A killer having low skill floor means playing them will be frustrating until you dedicate a long amount of time to even learn the basics. Killers like this have low pick rates and are rarely even seen in the game because most people just give up learning them, it's not worth investing time just to learn the basics of a killer in a game with multiple alternatives that are both powerful and easier to play . Again, just look at Singularity, specially at his release.
Plus, the Judgement is currently harder to play than any of the killers you mentioned.
Pinhead has a complicated power, but can still be played as an M1 killer, has a power that can be made easier to hit by spawning it right behind survivors, and the passive alone helps players who struggle to hit the chains as it gains him a lot of time. The Judgement doesn't have any of that, having only 4.4 speed, so not playable as an M1 killer, and having to inflict a debuff by hitting the power, not passively.
The Pig is a simple killer with a low skill floor. Not even a comparison.
The Nurse is the only of the three with an actually high skill floor. Still, her power becomes EASIER to hit upclose and not harder, and she doesn't require moving the camera away from the survivor and doing crazy camera spins just to damage a survivor in a loop. The gameplay against her is also way more tricky than Judgement, who has far clearer counters.
Plus, a killer being way too hard to play only makes them harder to balance without ruining the killer experience. The Nurse is the strongest killer in the game with one of the lowest kill rates, and a decade later the devs still struggle to nerf her. The Singularity needed a BUFF, even though he wasn't weak, because of how hard awful he was to play overall and how unpopular he became. The Judgement is strong but the concept of its power is rather simple, it's basically a moving projectile. If the killer becomes easier to play, kill-rates won't be as skewed by dificulty, and balancing it will be far easier as well, based on how powerful the killer is, not how hard players struggle to get use of the power. If the killer becomes too powerful while being easier to play, a few tweaks to numbers like range and projectile speed could be enough to balance it. That's a way healthier scenario then a killer being too powerful, but still doing terribly because almost nobody can play it.
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@TWiXT said:
Evolve:
Adds Gorgon (Spider-Like Monster), 3 months later, Game is dead.
The Last Year:
Adds the Fiend (big ass spider), less than 1 month later, Game dies.
I know it's not much of a sample, but the pattern is clear:
Spider Adversaries Kill Asymmetrical Games!
I know it's a joke, but I still have to say… you forgot to mention that was only the second of the four times (or was it just three?) Last Year died. 😂
Seriously, as unsuccessful most Asymmetrical games have been, I don't think I've ever seen a game die so many times. They would bring the game back with all the bugs from last time, make the same mistakes and the game would die again and again.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104073#Comment_4104073
my question is why have us vote at all if you’re not going to deliver on what was voted for. This is a community voted for chapter right? But it doesn’t feel like it at all. If things needed more time in the oven to deliver what we voted for then you should’ve delayed the chapter.
The killer looks terrible to play and apart from getting her adept i’m not going to play her. Pretty good job so far.
Honestly, by the responses they gave, it's not fully clear if the split-in-half part of the mori was impossible to do or if it was impossible only within the time they had. And if it would be possible to do it with more time, then yeah, I wish they had delayed the chapter instead of giving us something different from what was voted.
Or even better, I hope they still take time to try to bring that mori to life. Because if they COULD do it with more time and chose not to do it, that's a huge letdown.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104048#Comment_4104048
It was mentioned in the linked comment, but this was a new process for the team, which came with lots of really valuable learnings. Given how many pieces come together to form the whole of a chapter (and a Killer, in this case), these different pieces all impact production timelines by different degrees, whether you're looking at the Killer design, UI elements, VFX, etc.
Because of that, sometimes changes need to be made to the plans or intentions we have for individual pieces of the puzzle during development to ensure the whole is as strong as can be.
That said, whether it's learnings on the development side or learnings on the side of how we share details/changes about this process (as folks have shared here), they're equally important things we're taking to heart.
Well, I'll start my comment by thanking you for taking your time and giving us answers. However…
I must say, this still doesn't feel acceptable at all. One thing is when a feature from a cosmetic from the community contest can't be made accurately because of technical limitations the PLAYER who designed it wasn't aware of. The other is when the DEVS themselves put under vote something that already seems very bold and hard to do compared to most animations already in the game and, after the far majority votes for it, THEN you say it's not possible to do it due to technical limitations.
After ten years, we expect the devs to know the extent of the game's technical limitations. But mainly, when the devs put something under vote as part of a chapter that is advertised as being MADE BY THE COMMUNITY, we assume they are sure they can do that, that they confirmed it before putting it under vote. When an option is given for the players to DECIDE how a feature from the chapter will be and in the end it's different, we feel lied to. In effect, something was promised but not delivered.
My first thought is that something similar should have been tested before it was made into a vote option, specially since the grimoire was already going for many months before the mori vote. But if testing something like that would not be viable, then maybe, knowing the game always had technical limitations, don't give us such bold and ambitious promises in the vote options if nobody knew for sure if they could be made.
Like, seriously, even us players are by now used to the fact that certain forms of brutality are not possible in the moris due to technical limitations, so the devs must have known that ripping a survivor in half was a HUGE leap that could be impossible. But the moment when it showed up on an option for vote made available by the devs themselves, we thought they had figured it out just like they did with Krasue. Afterall, they wouldn't give us the oportunity to pick something they couldn't deliver, right?
Another option would be to reopen the Grimoire to choose a mori again once the devs realized the already voted one was simply impossible. I understand it's not the best advertisement to say "I know you already voted this, but we are opening the vote again because we couldn't deliver the last one", but it's still better than suddenly getting a third option nobody voted for. Seriously, I doubt the mori we are getting with the chapter would have won a vote over the beheading option. A lot of people would have voted that second mori option if the first one didn't have the split in half thing.
Hell, now I think that, if the second option had won the vote, the actual mori would have ended up being more accurate to the original concept, even if the head had to explode like it happens in the Krasue mori (instead of falling off like in the Grimoire's concept). That would be something. The one we are getting doesn't have anything close to the most brutal part of its original concept.
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THWACK's description currently doesn't say it's a basic-break like other pallet-breaking perks.
Does that mean the perk's mechanic is not matching its decription right now?
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Oh, and before someone say there was a technical limitation or something, the survivor's model gets replaced with a generic "scorched person" model during the animation, so it shouldn't suffer the same restraint as the usual survivor models do. It should be possible for the same reason there was a beheading on the other option. And if some technical limitations still make this mori impossible, well, than it shouldn't have been promised in a voting option to begin with. People voted this because of how cool and unique the ripping in half looked.
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@JesterVittorio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095254#Comment_4095254
Look at any of the promotional art of the survivors for this event. Do any of them look forced? Other than being in the entities realm none of the survivors display traits of fear. They are wearing a mask yes but they are holding a drinking glass or leaning over a table with corpse parts on it. They look bored/larping as high society. Do any of them look forced? No.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LQ09L4F6S41N/canibal-survivors.png
if its edgy to crrect your mistake ill be edgy my guy. If anything proving you wrong about the number of events shows me you dont remember your dbd history, also tells me you cant handle being told your wrong if it "makes my point worse". If anything 4 years of a solid theme that made more sense than the black talen throwing a dinner party (dont worry I'll get to that.)https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FDAXTLXMJT0A/dbdtheme.png
Since you are too lazy to google I did it for you. Huh, whats that highlighted by google? No Themes? Wow. Its so edgy being right.
Also there is a big difference between a protaganist and antagonist just like theres a difference to choose to be a cannibal and being forced to consume flesh.
Hannibal is not a hero he is a villian. Sweeny todd is not a hero, he kills people and has there bodies made into pies where they were fed to the public. Not heroic. IN TWD it is discovered (the telltale game) Without knowing, Lee's group is invited to the farm and fed "dinner," unknowingly eating human flesh. Not by choice. In RE once again they are trying to FORCE it on some one else. Not a choice. Ravenous and the platform I had to look up both and the only one I can say congrats you might have found one is ravenous where the main character does it twice. The platform however is another instance of forced cannibalism by another person in the movie. Revenant is about a vampires. They drink blood and it is a form of cannibalism but a vampire isnt exactly human anymore are they? And Jennifers body is a demonic possession. A demon eating people is not exactly cannibalism either.
After reading the flavor text of the aniversary items btw all it says is a thankyou from the dbd devs for 10 years of dbd. Theres no lore anything in this years batch of items. If you mean the cosmetics, the only three survivor items that seem to say anything about the event are the masks that talk about how afraid they are. So now we have conflicting feelings from the description of three masks and promotional art which brings me to my final point.
WHY does the entity need a human cult based in the mortal world where Taurie Cain was from, to host any sort of banquet? We already know the enitity takes people from different worlds and timelines, it doesnt work with anyone or anything else. It takes what it thinks will intrest it or feed it. It doesnt need humans to do anything in its realm for it. Thats why It doesnt work when Trykz was actually created by the entity in the lore for just this reason. The entity doesnt care about the Black Talon Cult. They worship the entity but have no clue how to access its realm. Thats why Taurie was a sacrifice to it in her lore. They tried to make a connection but the entity just wanted Taurie for her ability to suffer more than the average person.Look at any of the promotional art of the survivors for this event. Do any of them look forced?
Yes, they DO! Are you going to pretend you're not seeing it now? They straight up look scared. Claudette's mask in the art is made to reflect that expression, but in Kate's case it's not even the mask: her mouth open, the hand on Dwight's shoulder, does that look like someone who is happy about the whole situation? They are not doing it willingly. And trying to claim that is a BORED expression, on an horror-theme image, is just funny. You are literally LOOKING straight at very obvious stuff and claiming they are something else.
if its edgy to crrect your mistake ill be edgy my guy.
You are not just correcting. First, you went angrily saying "learn to count", which is edgy teen behaviour. Nitpicking a small number mistake and making a big deal out of it to turn into a petty insult is edgy and immature, simply as that. Now you are doubling down on it, nitpicking harder and trying to claim I "can't handle" something when you literally started with petty insults here. The fact that you are focusing on something that changes NOTHING about my point or the whole subject just tells me you don't have anything better to say.
Since you are too lazy to google I did it for you. Huh, whats that highlighted by google? No Themes? Wow. Its so edgy being right.
So you get called edgy and your response is talking like a duke nukem meme? Sure… Dude, if you have to CLAIM you're right instead of showing it, you're probably wrong, just saying it. You typed a prompt to try to lead Google AI into saying what you needed, it DID NOT say there is no theme and yet you are claiming it did. It says it FOCUSED on something else instead of a NARRATIVE DRIVEN theme, not the same. And you know it, but you are being dishonest just like every troll in this forum.
On all the rest you are literally just missing or ignoring the point entirely
Hannibal is not a hero he is a villian.
On Hannibal Rising he starts as the victim, then becomes an antihero, and then a monster in the end but not even the villain of his own story. Plus, older Hannibal tricks people into cannibalism, people who aren't villains like him.
Sweeny todd is not a hero, he kills people and has there bodies made into pies where they were fed to the public.
Which was literally my point. How clever of you to notice that. I never claimed he was a hero, I claimed people being tricked or forced into cannibalism is a trope in horror, you straight up admited to that now.
IN TWD it is discovered (the telltale game) Without knowing,
Which was my point. Are you even paying attention? They were unwillingly lead to cannibalism. MY WHOLE POINT IS THERE WASNT A CHOICE, MY GUY! Just like in the survivor's case!
hey drink blood and it is a form of cannibalism but a vampire isnt exactly human
You are literally agreeing with every point I already made while pretending you're countering them. Keep going. Both Revenant and Jennifer's Body include people who started as the "hero" of the story but then become human-looking man-eating monsters. It still falls into the trope.
After reading the flavor text of the aniversary items btw all it says is a thankyou from the dbd devs for 10 years of dbd. Theres no lore anything in this years batch of items. If you mean the cosmetics
[Sigh]. Okay, I will repeat myself: read the flavor text of all of the REWARDS in the event. I said REWARDS, not items. You are misunderstanding or ignoring everything I said. You are doing it on purpose, right?
the only three survivor items that seem to say anything about the event are the masks that talk about how afraid they are.
Yeah, they are afraid because they DON'T WANT TO BE THERE. Other people are eating and they are afraid and unwilling to eat it themselves. Plus, one banner straight up says there is NO CHOICE but to indulge, and the entity's limbs are surrounding Dwight in the art.
WHY does the entity need a human cult
Why do you assume it NEEDS it? The cult might as well be doing it by their initiative and the entity is feeding on their dread and hope as always. We will only know EXACTLY what is happening when the new tome's lore comes, but things happening in the fog don't contradict the entity in any way. Hell, your "final point" could be equally said about most if not all other events,. Do you realize that even though the entity doesn't WORK with people, she still has killers doing their bidding to feed off the trials, right? The same thing that applies to the Legion might as well apply to a cult. The vast majority of playable characters in this game are or were HUMANS at some point too, so your "final point" makes no sense whatsoever.
Trykz was actually created by the entity in the lore for just this reason
Remind me then, according to what lore entry? Because as far as I remember, Trykz origin was never confirmed, and some of the canon speculation about her was about her coming from a world outside of the entity's realm, which means she could have been a human who ended up in the Entity's realm and learned how to get some control over it.
They worship the entity but have no clue how to access its realm.
And yet other arms of the Black Vale are already in the realms. Saku literally hunts them down there in her lore.
For someone who likes to make a big deal of small mistakes, you surely miss a lot. I assume you're just ragebaiting, but whatever, I don't care. -
@JesterVittorio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095241#Comment_4095241
so why are the SURVIVORS the cannibals? Why are the killers not the ones eating feet hands and eyes?
Also there were 4 twisted masquerades 2022-2025 learn to count. the 5 first aniversary events mostly gave out free items and bp then moved to crown pillars that gave the crown halo cosmetics. There was no particular THEME till the masquerade.
How many horror movies have you seen where the cannibals are the good guys/final girls? Name one or two movies Ill wait. Till then this event is still a dumpster fire from design to execution.So your complaint is that they made a different character do horror stuff this time? You know that the heroes/victims of a story being corrupted is doing messed up stuff to survive is a trope in horror, right? Oooohh, so terrible, a video game character on a horror game game with a literal multiverse where characters have multiple versions of themselves has a temporary game mode where you can play as a cult instead of just the victim. This is a NON-ISSUE, dude. You are complaining because the ice cream didn't come on a flavor you particularly like, but your tastes aren't everone else's. In case you haven't realized, most people don't care about that at all. If anything, survivors being the ones having to do horrifying stuff now is a nice twist. Plus, there are multiple of them, a killer can't represent a cult alone.
Also there were 4 twisted masquerades 2022-2025 learn to count.
That was edgy, but isn't making you look any mature, my guy. If anything, it makes your point even WORSE. Four years of events of the same theme and aesthetic and similar abilities just shows the theme was overused as hell and needed to change.
the 5 first aniversary events mostly gave out free items and bp then moved to crown pillars that gave the crown halo cosmetics. There was no particular THEME till the masquerade.
Do you realize you straight up described a theme that was a change from the initial anniversaries? The THREE first anniversary events didn't have a theme, the 4th and 5th did with their consistent aesthetic that went for items and cosmetics, and the crowns where a part of it. Then the devs changed it to shift things up, they are shifting it again now just like they had already anounced they would do.
How many horror movies have you seen where the cannibals are the good guys/final girls?
There is a bunch where the protagonist or other characters, initially not the villains, is tricked, forced or lead to commit cannibalism. They are either horrified or become the villain, sometimes both.
That's the whole theme of the single most iconic cannibal character in all of fiction, Hannibal Lecter. In Hannibal Rising, he becomes a cannibal after being forced into it the first time. In most of the movie he is an antihero hunting the monster who wronged him, but eventually he turns himself into the monster he is famously known as. In multiple media, Hannibal is a guy who who tricks other people into commiting cannibalism all the time with the meals he prepares for them, and both in the "Hannibal" movie and the TV show he forces someone to eat. In one of the cases, it was the main hero, Will Graham, who slowly starts becoming sorta evil too.
That is quite a trope in fiction. Sweeney Todd has it happening by a lot, The TWD Telltale game has it too. It literally has been a trope since Shakespeare.
In Resident Evil VII, the TCM-inspired villains try to force-feed the main character. In the movie Ravenous, the main character does it to survive. The same thing happens in the Netflix movie The Platform and the 2009 movie Hunger.
Finally, there are those who are not exactly human to be considered cannibals, but fall into the same trope of the main character starting to eat people, like the horror comedy Revenant or Jennifer's Body.
"Oh, but they are not cannibals, most of them are forced into it!"
Read the flavor text of all of the rewards in the event. It heavily implies the survivors are being forced into it by the Black Talon and the Entity and have no choice. Again, characters being lead to commit heinous stuff is very common in horror. That's an important part of Saw's premise.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094981#Comment_4094981
Oh, I know that Otz also did a video. And it will probably be posted here, because it is SO IMPORTANT to have another Thread about the same topic.
The reality is that none of the Content Creators said anything about the unbalanced Anniversary Events before, because they were killer-sided. And the Forums also did not really care. For some reason "You dont have to play the event" and "They are not supposed to be balanced" is only a thing when the "right" side gets the good stuff.
At this point I am wondering if this keeps up until the last day of the event.
The whataboutism doesn't work here because at least two of the mentioned content creators actually DID comment on Anniversary events being problematic and unbalanced before.
https://youtu.be/cbvQs46aLE8?si=8je-wMdPpWFJ9oEM
Also, "the forums did not really care"? Based on what? Because I remember tons of complaints showing up on the forums back then just like they always do. Just because there wasnt'a consensus, which almost never happens in this very divided community, it doesn't mean people didn't care.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4094983#Comment_4094983
The thing is, the poison is not even bad. It guarantees a Hit, there is no way the Survivor can avoid being hit after being slowed down so much. It is just boring. But then again, Remote Pallet Breaks or Exposed were also not really exciting, but at this point Survivors got garbage, so Killer Mains did not care for their abilities being boring.
I agree the poison is not bad, but it's still a bit weak in comparison to all the stuff survivors have at once, some of them triggering globally, and there are situations where it isn't that useful due to it having a little delay until you actually have value from it. A very mobile killer can certainly make it work everytime, but an m1 killer? One of the morsel abilities give survivors a free speed boost. By the time the poison triggers, they will already be far away, and sometimes it's not even worth chasing them after such speed boost. So it's basically an ability that can be insanely strong consistently on already very strong killers and far less on the weaker ones.
Plus, remote pallet breaks where still an unique ability unlike any killer power just like survivors creating pallets (before a perk for it was made) and blocking windows, not to mention it was one of the many abilities killers had. All that together was still better than poison, which was the ONLY ability killers got this time and is basically a stronger clown bottle. Finally, global effects in that event affeced both killers and survivors, and one of them was an instaheal, not everything survivors got was "garbage".
Either way, it's clear those events where killer sided and people DID talk about it, as much as you claim they didn't. But this one is getting a particularly heavy backlash because the imbalance is far more obvious and blatant now. On the Twisted Masquerade there was at least an intention of giving matching sets of abilities to killers and survivors: global effects affected both and the number of activated abilities was equal or similar, the problem was that the killer abilities ended up being stronger while the survivor abilities where situational… and one of them straight up countered one of the survivor's abilities. Still, there was enough for each side to feel they were playing a different game than normal with new resources and abilities available.
That was something the devs usually atempt in events, give an equal or similar number of benefits to both sides. This 10th Anniversary completely broke it. Survivors are the only ones benefited by global effects except for the portals, but they HUGELY favor survivors anyway. Survivors get 9 different abilities divided in 3 sets that are randomized each game, killers get ONE ability that is the same every game. Survivors' abilities are hard to keep track of and sometimes unpredictable, the killer ability is a projectile that needs to be dodged. That is a HUGE disparity and it should be very obvious one side was getting a lot while the other was getting barely anything, the devs could easily have predicted it was hugely unbalanced and killer players wouldn't like that.
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seriously no one likes the larp as a cannibal event.
Because god forbid we have a HORROR element in a HORROR game, right? Talk for yourself, because I like the whole cannibal theme and I'm sure many other players like it too. The community has asked for YEARS for the devs to bring more horror to DbD, and this is one of the few times they actually did it. The problem of this event is on the gameplay mechanics, not at all on the theme and aesthetics.
Just a reminder: the MAIN inspiration for DbD was a movie about cannibals (Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That's why killers place survivors in meat hooks, because Leatherface does it in the movie)! Two killers are cannibals (The Hag and, look at that, THE CANNIBAL), and other four have moris where they either eat survivors, part of them or do something akin to it (The Unknown, Dracula, Demogorgon and the Dredge). Cannibalism has always been very on-theme for DbD and people always enjoyed it.
What was wrong with the masquerade and Tryksz?
We already had three anniversary events with the Twisted Masquerade. DbD always changed the anniversary's theme after every 3 years, so it didn't get too repetitive. Plus, this is the 10th year anniversary, OF COURSE it needed to be different from everything so far. Plus, a cannibal cult is far more horror-themed and far better for the game than a colorful masquerade ball with a funny-looking lady with a Harley Quinn voice.
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@SoGo said:
So far, this is, to my knowledge, the list of all banned addons and perks:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RK4ALYCBFL8D/img-20260114-105340.jpg
Perks: A Nurse's Calling, Tenacity, No Mither, Boon: Exponential, Unbreakable, Plot Twist (+ maybe some more anti-slug perks)
It's kinda funny that they left out so many iris but they kept Huntress Iridescent Heads (way more troubling than her iri they banned) and Cenobite's Engineer's Fang. Also really weird how they banned an aura perk for Trapper. So his meme add-on stays, his iris stay, his instadown add-on and Trapper Sack both stay, but the aura add-on needs a ban?
And honestly, no perk should be removed from rotation besides maybe No Mither. Like, Tenacity and Unbreakable, really? Why would they ban anti-slug perks from a random rotation? I see no reason to ban A Nurse's Calling too, it's a fun aura reading perk that isn't top tier but still pretty good. Many far more stronger aura perks have been kept in rotation, as well as bottom tier borderline useless perks like Hangman's Trick (one of the worst aura perks) too. It just makes no sense.
But I'm glad the Onryo's Iridescent Videotape has been banned. With how often iris show up, I was initially afraid of playing Onryo matches and end up with a perk that straight up removes her most unique feature.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048866#Comment_4048866
No one asked for more bloodpoint clutter.
The map offering being gutted effected soloq and low tiers more than the "tryhards" ever did, if at all.
Even if those nerfs werent designed to harm soloq, it did in fact do more harm to soloq than it ever did to the top tier killers or the swfs using them.
Chucky's original designed that came in his first iteration, was designed to deal with swfs. (Which was very obvious to witness)
How is that, based on what? Based on vibes? The map offering change nerfed tryhards and min-maxers for both sides because it LIMITED the number of advantages they can choose. It was extremely common for them to use it, now it's barely used because of the odds of them doing nothing. Why are we supposed to believe that somehow is worse for solo queue and low tier killers? Because you say so?
And again people DID ask for a map offering nerf and it was based on feedback. Deny as much as you want, it's a FACT that took place and you can check right here in this forums. Maybe YOU didn't ask for it, but speak for yourself, not for everyone else.
Chucky's original design was even WORSE against SWF. He had a 18 seconds cooldown for his power, which means he got punished hard for using his power for mobility, and every time he took a bodyblock in a dash, he would stay a ridiculous amount of time as a slow killer without his dashing ability. Just claiming it was "obvious" doesn't make it true.
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map offerings being gutted are just more useless clutter that no one asked for.
This is not true AT ALL. Many people asked for Map Offering nerfs or even complete removal for years. LOTS AND LOTS of people. Way more than the "bese-kit kindred and bond" you mentioned, that I barely even remember people asking. Check old forum posts if you doubt that. Map design has always been one of the most talked about problems in this game and one thing that always lead to complaints and rants was how people could simply use an offering to pick the most problematic, one-sided map in that favored them. Specially survivors, since there are four offering slots for the survivor's side and only one on the killer's side, and for a long time there were way more survivor-sided maps than killer-sided ones.
mostly used by soloq or low tier killers like doctor or vanity mirror myers,
(yes i know everyone used them, but it mostly effected were the weaker side)This is also NOT TRUE. Map offerings were a very popular tool for tryhards in both survivor and killer sides. It was very, VERY common to see tryhard sweaty SWFs bringing a map offering (and no more than one, since they only needed one to have 100% chance of going to that map). Hell, everytime I noticed I was facing a TTV streamer, I would use a sacrificial ward in case of a map offering, and often someone actually brought one and it was cancelled by the ward.
As you played more and your MMR increased, you started facing survivors who were more skilled, had more hours of gameplay and higher-prestiged characters, map offering also became more and more common. The times when MMR was the most strict and I kept facing 4-man prestige 100s all the time was also the time I needed to bring sacrificial wards almost every match because of how insanely often map offerings would appear. And they would often not even take to an extremely survivor-sided map, but to a map that they knew better how to spread and run loops more consistently, like any form the Macmillan State. Map offerings were a tool for survivors at their STRONGEST, most optimal, not at their weakest.
And do you know who else used map offerings, specially Macmillan State offerings often? NURSES! Yeah, many Nurse players loved to bring an offering to a map they knew well how to navigate in so they could destroy survivors more easily. All you had to do is play survivor after 2 AM, at the time there were less players and many who stayed were people who play a lot, and there were great odds you would start seeing these tryhard Nurses with map offerings.
A lot of what you said in your post were just mentions on any survivor nerfs and assuming it was a nerf specifically to solo queues but not SWFs, but it isn't like that at all. SWFs used a lot of styptics and syringes, BNPs were nerfed too, and Chucky isn't a killer designed around SWF, hell, he doesn't even have the high mobility to deal with the biggest strenght of SWF!
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Sadako can have her tv's turned off though for a whole 70 seconds. At least demo doesnt have that issue. He can also put his portals anywhere he wants which is nice.
Demo does have that issue, though. He only doesn't have it until he goes in or out of the portal at least once, than they can completely remove his portals until he places them again, which is even worse than waiting for them to come back, at least Sadako almost always has TV's coming back and available to teleport instead of having to waste her time placing teleport destinations.
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@uAreShellfish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048591#Comment_4048591
Yeah, I’m with you on that. Dracula × Demogorgon is rough from a design standpoint.
Demo’s whole identity is “map control + ambush,” but Dracula just straight-up eats that niche. Bat form alone outclasses portals in mobility and info, and then you stack wolf for chase and vampire for raw pressure… there’s just nothing left for Demo to feel special at basekit. Like you said, Demo only really gets to flex through add-ons, and even then a lot of Dracula’s add-ons do the same jobs but cleaner and stronger.
Chucky vs Michael at least feels like an apples-to-oranges thing. Michael is about snowballing lethality and stealth, while Chucky’s third-person camera + tiny hitbox gives him a totally different chase dynamic. He might lose in some raw power areas, but he’s still doing his own thing.
With Demo and Dracula, it’s more like: “Why would I pick Demo unless I just love Demo?” And that’s never a great feeling for killer variety, lol.
Yeah, and Demo's only really has THREE add-ons that allow it to do something Dracula can't. Both his Iris and Eleven's Soda, which turns generator auras yellow while teleporting if survivors are working on them. All the others are either completely outclassed by Dracula's add-ons (like, ONE of Dracula's blue add-ons outclasses ALL of Demo's chase add-ons, which are just two brown add-ons and two green for some reason, even though two of them are among Demo's BEST add-ons), or they just reduce some weakness Demo has and Dracula already doesn't (like… increase number of portals? Increase portal placing speed? Decrease the Dracula doesn't even need portals), or are just outright garbage (60 second of blindness if they run through portals? ONE extra second of undetectable? Come on…).
And indeed, I see no reason to play Demo anymore. Maybe I'll do it at some point if I miss hearing his sound design while playing, his screams after hitting survivors are really cool and all, but I still prefer playing the guy that does everything he does and also has a bunch of additional strong and fun abilities.
It also doesn't help that Daily Rituals have been replaced by Daily Quests. Daily Rituals often required you to play a specific killer in order to complete them and incentivized you to play specific characters, but that's not a thing anymore (to be fair… I would guess many people just dismissed Demo's power ritual because it was one of the worst ones. It required you to hit survivors with fully charged pounces, but you usually don't want to fully charge before pouncing).
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@ArkInk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048121#Comment_4048121
Fr Krasue is 10% faster than Chucky but they still gave her the Scamper mechanic after removing it from him for being too strong.
If increasing the time it takes to vault a pallet was the only change that Scamper needed, why wasn't this done for him?
Yeah, and funny enough, while Krasue is still realy strong, her pallet vaulting kinda sucks because of how long it takes. Chucky, being even slower, could perhaps scamper a little slower when not dashing and it would have been fine. The only reason could see for the devs not to do that is because they base the balancing around kill rates, and Chucky is way easier to play than Krasue, which means he probably has a higher kill rate or at least had it much higher before his nerfs.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048591#Comment_4048591
Even if you compare demo to springtrap you can clearly see how outdated demo realy is they both have some antiloop chase power (spring fire axe and demo his shread) I would argue that axe is stronger but harder to use than shread, they both have teleport ability only difference is demo has to set his tps compare to springtrap who has his doors already set which makes his early game much better compare to demo whose tps should be way stronger due to being limited by count and that he must waste time to set them up and the oblivious effect? Demo has 5 seconds and every survivors knows with global sound cue when he is using his portals and springtrap? Springtrap has stealthy tp through doors and 15 seconds of oblivious effect which is three times more so even if you look at these two you can clearly see how much big of difference is there between them not to mention compare c-tier demo against high a-tier (probably one in top 5 strongest killers which majority of DBD community would agree on I believe) there is huge difference but one thing I have to say about drac, comparing him to killer like ghoul he has to way more earn his hits with hellfire or wolfs dash because they are easier to doge especialy in open and his zoning potencial with them now is no longer so good as it used to be.
Yeah, Springtrap's doors feel like a much better version of Demo's portals. Always placed, can't be removed, located near gens, way more quiet, the undetectable is longer, and there is no cooldown for going through them. Demo really could use a buff.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I agree, it is the best version of Chaos Shuffle. The only problem is that tunneling is obviously very strong, because there is most likely no defense against it. But this does not really differ from the reqular gamemode and you cannot change player behavior. I dont really see Genrushing, mainly because you just cannot do a Build for Genrushing. Yes, you can get a Toolbox and it can be a Commodious with a BNP, but it can also be a brown Toolbox with Sabo Add On and Instructions.
The only thing I would like to see is that they revisit the list of banned Add Ons. The Meme-Add Ons (Padded Jaws, Coutnerweight, etc.) for Killers should not be included. Technically it is the same as No Mither for Survivor, but even if a Survivor gets No Mither, they still have 3 other Perks and 3 teammates. As Killer, if I want to play Billy, I want to play Billy and not be the Man with the Mallet because I get Counterweight. And those Meme Add Ons just alter the Killer too much IMO.
But overall it is good that sweating was lowered in this mode. This was always my biggest gripe with Chaos Shuffle that players sweat by bringing the best Items and Add Ons and a Map Offering when they have random Perks and this got sorted.
I'd say there's still gen rushing, but survivors can't pick their builds to help it. Like, it's technically just like in normal matches were spreading correctly between gens and commiting to do it efficiently does more for gen-rushing than the build does. They can't blow it out of proportions with the best toolboxes and perks like Built to Last and Deja Vú, but they still have the basic tools to rush and the killer can't pick defenses against that either, similarly to how survivors can't pick DS, OTR and Shoulder the Burden against tunneling. As a result I see some matches going insanely fast, with survivors doing gens as fast as they can in a race against the killer successfully tunneling the first survivvor. If the killer has a good start, it may just tunnel a survivor out and make a comeback dificult or even almost impossible for survivors. On the other hand, if the killer has a bad start, maybe taking too long to get the first or the second down, gens start popping really quickly and the killer often won't have regression, blocking or slowdown perks to efficiently protect those.
Still, I gotta say the gen rushing is indeed not as strong as in previous iterations of Chaos Shuffle, since now survivors can't pick the best toolboxes with the best add-ons anymore. On the other hand, killers were also weakened by not being able to pick the best, most busted add-ons every time, which helped the mode to get less sweaty, but tunneling as a strat wasn't weakened at all. The killer is just less pressured to do so, but the strenght is still a problem.
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@dbd900bach said:
There is definitely some bad crossover between some killer powers. The only advantage Chucky as over Micheal is his size. He's pretty hard to see, especially when undetectable, and being third person is also a massive advantage.
Michael is better of course, but Chucky is still somewhat decent despite that and has his own unique advantages.
I think the worst crossover between killer powers is still Dracula X Demogorgon.
I mean, Chucky feels outclassed by Michael in a few aspects, but his combination of small size and third person is still pretty strong and unique. But Demo and Dracula? Everything Demo's power can do, Dracula can do better. The only thing that allows demo to do some stuff of its own are its add-ons, but most of Dracula's add-ons still outclass Demo's, lol. -
She is still strong, but playing her feels clunky and restrictive, so not very fun.
Like, come on, usually every killer can use their power whenever they want as long as it is available, sometimes having to work to make it available like Oni. Killers with two "forms" or modes usually can change between them freely. Twins can change between Charlotte and Viktor whenever they want unless Viktor was just kicked. Dracula has a short cooldown and beside that can shapeshift freely, old Doctor could change freely between Treatment and Punishment mode. The Lich doesn't have two forms, but has four different abilities he can change between whenever he wants.
The Krasue, on the other hand, spawns a mushroom when she transforms. So she provides the survivors with a counter to her power everytime she uses it. And if no survivor is infected, it will be pretty pointless. So she has her power available at all times, but she is pressured to use it as less often as possible to avoid countering herself, and she always must stay some time in her human form before releasing her power.
And what's her power on her human form? Solely marking survivors so she can use her actual power. In other words, she is just a normal M1 killer untill she has marked enough survivors, or at least the survivor she wants to chase (and those who could body-block for them) are marked.
And when she finally releases her head… yeah, it's strong, yeah, it has a lot of mobility, but it's clunky as hell. Controlling when not dashing forward feels weird, and the attack, as big of an area as it has, is so slow and has such a limited turn rate that I'd rather just play a killer normal basic attacks. At least a normal lunge is fast and you can turn around corners and freely control your movement while performing it, unlike the Krasue's special attack.
That doesn't stop her from being strong or from easily winning most matches once you get the hang of her, but there is no satisfaction on playing as a killer whose power has a restrictive frequency of use and then a restricted control over its own movement when it's finally used.
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With all due respect, this is quite a terrible take.
Just because someone wants competition to incentive DbD to improve, they aren't obligated to spend their time and money in any bad game that shows up wanting to compete with DbD.
Because most of the atempted competition against DbD over the years has been just that, very bad, buggy, poorly balanced games that were handled terribly by the devs. So of course they didn't get support for long, couldn't hold a playerbase and died, they just weren't worth the time DbD is.
The thing is: asymmetrical online games are very hard to balance, specially with the conflicting feedback coming from different sides. They are often original games that are trying styles of gameplay that weren't tried before, and done by small developers with limited budgets. So things often don't go as planned and they fail. DbD is so far the only asymmetrical game that found the right formula and made it work, and yet it still deals with issues related to its base design. Some other games not only failed to find the right formula, they were also very poorly handled by their devs, who didn't even do the bare minimum. That was what happened with Last Year, Friday the 13th the Game (which was awfully buggy and very poorly balanced, but had that lawsuit as a escapegoat to blame for its failure) and Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The lattest two are from Gun, and I think that says everything that needs to be said about them. To make things worse, their upcoming Halloween game looks like a copy-pasted F13th reflavored in Halloween's scenario. I'm not interested in playing a game with a teleporting Michael Myers who can be stun-locked by survivors exactly like Jason was in F13th.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000313#Comment_4000313
Funny thing is, when they first introduced the search mechanic it did not. It wasn't until a long time player got hired at BHVR and that was the first change they made. Haha. They mentioned it in their developer quote in last year's anniversary event.
This is pretty neat. Props to this person.
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"BBQ" finds Barbecue & Chilli too, even though that combination of letters isn't anywhere on the perk's text. I find it pretty cool that the search bar can find popular perk name abreviations.
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Yeah, not to mention it has an arm that covers way more space on screen than the Dredge's base arm. But the clipping issue is worse because the devs claimed in the past that sometimes they linked cosmetic sets to avoid clipping issues. So they do that and yet they release a skin with such a huge clipping problem as a final Rift prize, with 4 variants?!
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I have experienced something similar in the past. It was over a year ago, but once I played a match in anonymous mode and one of the killed survivors went to complain about my playstile, so they said "4000 hours and playing like that?". It was weird, because my playtime on Steam at that time was indeed above 4000 hours and below 5000. That lead me to believe that either the anonymous mode didn't work at that time because of some bug or there is a way of still seeing the profile of someone in anonymous mode.
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I'm surprised they didn't compensate at all for the huge nerf Franklin's Demise got. This reminded me of when they butchered perks like Eruption, but realized the nerf was a bit to much and toned it down a little bit. Franklin wasn't OP as Eruption was back then and even then, didn't receive the same consideration to compensate for the nerf. RIP Franklin, it's only sligthly stronger than item-dropping add-ons now, and those add-ons suck for most killers.
On the survivor side, Streetwise got changed in a way that it can only fit into chest-hunting builds, but at the same time it makes you open chests LESS often, since the items will last longer. RIP Streetwise+Built to Last combo. And all of that because they changed how charges work to introduce this new item.
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Giving survivors 3 free escape atempts on every first hook is a terrible idea. There would be no reason not to try it everytime, which means hooks would not even be guaranteed to last. And guess what would be the best way of "countering" it? Staying close to the hook until the person spends all atempts, AKA camping. Do you really want to incentivize that?
I wouldn't have a problem with the current version of unhook atempts being unlocked when every survivor is down, though, at that point survivors don't have anything to fight back unless someone has unbreakable, and most of the time it will only speed up their deaths anyway.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956058#Comment_3956058
The royal "we" as in the community as a whole and not necessary including you or I.
And come on, players started looping instead of playing hide and seek because the way the game was designed favored that
That is incorrect. Only players new to the game hide most of the match. Then they find out they can't win by hiding. Only time hiding came into play was Claudette blending in during a chase. Before looping it was pallet to pallet running. Back then there were two pallet at every tile and jungle gyms with two windows and two pallets. You simply didn't need to loop in the sense of getting the most out of a pallet.
Telling a survivor to loop a pallet is what it sounds like. Hey you need to run in a circle around that pallet. Oh ok. Wait you are running the wrong way. Wait you need to throw the pallet now. No you could of bait a swing there and got an extra lap. No what are you doing you should of thrown the pallet now the killer can hit you.
Good luck relaying the concepts of pallet looping to someone that hasn't even played a match yet.
The royal "we" as in the community as a whole and not necessary including you or I.
Well, you say "it's funny" to you that people do two different claims on the same breath. One of them seems to be based on what I'm saying and what OP said, but is not widely discussed in the community, the other is often used to attack the devs, but I never showed any sign of agreeing with it, nor did OP. So… you find funny that people say "on the same breath" something that don't even seem to be said by the same people very often. It would make sense to tell me that if I had agreed with the second statement, but I never did.
That is incorrect. Only players new to the game hide most of the match. Then they find out they can't win by hiding. Only time hiding came into play was Claudette blending in during a chase. Before looping it was pallet to pallet running.
Did you realize you said it was "incorrect" but then followed with a comment that supported exactly what I said? "Only players new to the game hide most of the match. Then they find out they can't win by hiding." Yeah, because the game's design makes looping more worth than hiding! Again, players make strategies and metas based on what is made available by the design, and the design lead them to looping, beause once players find out a strat is not reliable, they switch to one that works better.
Back then there were two pallet at every tile and jungle gyms with two windows and two pallets. You simply didn't need to loop in the sense of getting the most out of a pallet.
You didn't "need", but it was the best option regardless. You didn't "need", but looping would create situations the killer could never catch you AND help you preserve pallets until the end of the match instead of spending them and creating dead zones. The game's design LED people to loop, even though it wasn't intentional, and with time that lead the game's design to change according to that. Medium vaults were added, infinites were removed, the number of pallets in maps decreased, and once the devs even talked about "loop money" being considered when reworking Badham. Looping is a very basic thing to know to at least try nowadays and the game is balanced around it.
Telling a survivor to loop a pallet is what it sounds like. Hey you need to run in a circle around that pallet. Oh ok. Wait you are running the wrong way. Wait you need to throw the pallet now. No you could of bait a swing there and got an extra lap. No what are you doing you should of thrown the pallet now the killer can hit you.
Good luck relaying the concepts of pallet looping to someone that hasn't even played a match yet.
You are talking as if a tutorial had to necessarily be a very detailed recreation of every possible situation that told you in rich detail exactly what you should do and when. You're exaggerated so much you even included baiting a swing. You KNOW a tutorial isn't that and you KNOW that's not what I'm suggesting here. You keep talking as if I we were talking here about advanced techs that can come and go at any time, when we are talking about a very basic thing. New players often don't even know they need to stay on the same tile for a bit in order not to get hit, and that they shouldn't just instantly drop any pallet and run away. They start completely lost because the tutorial and the game manual don't explain even that. Some very simple introduction to that would already be enough to show new players what they should TRY to do instead of letting them have multiple frustrating matches until they either stop playing after quickly dying every match or search for youtube content that tells what they are supposed to do.
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@Nazzzak said:
Is it in the event? Any chance they used quiet mode from the invite? It also affects breathing
This one match I mentioned in Gideon Meat Plant was in standard mode, not on Twisted Masquerade, so no invitation abilities. It's been happening all the time too, way too much to be just quiet mode. Just now I had another match while I tested it against an injured bot on a loop in Father Campbell's Chapel, I remained walking around the loop for a LONG time, more than quiet mode can even last. And most of the time I couldn't hear her at all, unless she was in line of sight. Sometimes I could also hear a grunt of pain very briefly and suddenly would hear nothing anymore, and I think it is because of the little gap in the wall that kind of tile has.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955451#Comment_3955451
yes they started balancing around it because the players started looping more than not. But why did that happen? How did that many players start doing the same thing without provocation? It's like knowledge was somehow relay to a vast group of people without the Dev's influence. 😉
It's somewhat funny to me that we want the Dev's to teach us how to play but in the same breath say they cannot balance their own game. Playstyles and tactics don't come from the Devs, they come from us. You learn it through interactions with other players. A killer will see a survivor pull one over on them and do the same when they play survivor. You cannot expect the Devs to keep up with the newest tech or meta and somehow make a tutorial on it.
Well, talk for yourself when you say "we". I definitively don't think the devs "cannot balance their own game", at least not today. Sure, it's a hard game to balance and there are things that still need changes, but the devs have been doing a really good job in the lattest years. Of course, it's something they do based not only on stats but also feedback from the community, but that doesn't mean they "can't balance their own game", it means that listening to player experience is important.
And come on, players started looping instead of playing hide and seek because the way the game was designed favored that, even thought it wasn't intended. The design has a lot of influence on what strategies players use because whatever stategies players decide to use is based on the tools the games gives them. Looping having been "created" by players would make a difference in this matter if we were still in 2017, but we're not. The game is 9 years old and it's maps have been DESIGNED around the efficiency of this strategy for years. It's not some new tech the players invented just now, nor it is just a meta, is a very basic thing expected to happen almost every time a survivor reaches a pallet in a chase and, if a new players don't know about that and don't do it, they get a really quick and frustrating chase where they almost immediatly go down. That's why it is important to help new players know how their resources are intended to be used and played around, or at least what they CAN do with it, instead of leaving them in the dark only for many of them to leave the game after a couple of days of a frustrating experience.
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There's no way to tell he was actually aiming for the tiny charm at your character's waist. He could be just hitting you just for the sake of hitting you, lots of killers do that to anyone they camp. Toxic? Sure, but not bannable.
I'm not saying it COULD NOT BE homophobia, I'm aware it happens in the game, but there is no proof that was the case here, and you don't ban someone with no proof, based on some very vague interpretation of a video about what do you think he was looking at.
But if he made an homophobic or transphobic comment in endgame chat or appeared make such comments verbally while doing this to you on a video or livestream, then he could (and probably would) be banned for communication abuse or even griefing.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955097#Comment_3955097
its not explained because these are tactics brought about by players. The Devs didn't think of them and that is very clear by looking at old map designs.
They didn't think of them initially, but balanced the game around it over time and even commented on it during dev streams. The tutorial itself didn't even exist when the original maps were made, only the game manual did. They updated the game manual, but neither it nor the tutorial ever explained some of these strats that have been required to be known to play decently for years already.
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No need to put all of them around the hook, one is enough!
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449740/this-forced-to-play-is-for-the-birds
If you’re complaining about not being able to go next, then honestly it’s players like you that are the reason the go next prevention system is needed. It’s forcing you to decide if you actually want to be serious about trying instead of just ruining the match for your teammates any time you aren’t having fun. I’m sure this will make some chronic “go nexters” not want to play the game anymore, and that is a very good thing for the health of the game.
This. People going next used to be the worst thing about playing solo survivor, because any match could suddenly be ruined just because someone decided to give up the moment something didn't go right for them… and this "something" could be the match STARTING with a killer they didn't like or even a mistake made by themselves! Multiple times, while playing both killer and solo survivor, I've seen survivors lose matches they had a really good chance of winning simply because someone gave up on their first hook after others had been hooked before but kept playing and did multiple gens, yet that one person couldn't accept a misplay of their own, gave up and caused the survivors to lose.
Now solo survivor is not perfect… but undoubtly better than before, because at least people keep playing when a match is rough. When they really don't, they DC, but they still leave a bot behind, which is not ideal, but far better than playing 3v1. They also take a penalty so they can't abuse doing this either.
Also, this whole "being FORCED to play matches" is just dramatic victimization discourse and nothing else. No one is FORCING anyone to play anything, the "leave match" button is always there. "But there is a penalty!", sure, but the penalty only getts actually long after the THIRD DC. If someone often wants to DC more than that every twenty matches, perhaps they shouldn't be playing, or at best they should be playing less often, which the penalty will make sure of.