smurf
smurf
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@Vess said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021795#Comment_4021795
I had yesterday a Bubba that was doing Bubba things like crazy. It was a tense and fun match. As I test different perks, I used yesterday Blast Mine a lot and 3 times hit him with it. At the end I found a hatch and thank him in the chat for the game worried a bit he will be mad about the stuns, but it was surprisingly a very cheerful person, we chat a bit and they told me they enjoyed hunting who was doing that.
I had a similar experience once with a Bubba who hooked someone in the basement in the early game. My two other teammates ran right into the basement... I did eventually rescue one of them, but that game was doomed. When the hatch race came, Bubba got it first and took me down. Afterwards, I told him that I had no idea why my whole team ran into the basement when he was clearly camping it. Good chat with him :)
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021795#Comment_4021795
I’m trying to provide fun for others when I feel myself in a such mood, but thats the point. You shouldn’t force people to guarantee fun for others. You never should game expect doing this. This game is about bloody killers and survivors and not some pink world where you make a show or concert for everyone. This is beyond actual gameplay, sides are to distinctive for this. People are free to do it and thats just a part of us being human, but when people expect this happen most of the time in game like DBD I wonder do they really care about everyone enjoyment or its just their sole vision of the game should be validated the most
Agreed! That's exactly why I mentioned the example where the Pig let me do the fun thing and then promptly eliminated me :)
I also occasionally have the lute perk or Vee's song thing equipped, and then try to play on the stage on Freddy's map or something. But we can't expect to get released or even get the other side to play along. If they do, it's a bonus :D
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@tes said:
I hope more people would play like this so they’ll actually realise how this game works
I haven't seen survivors who sad thank you for fun gameplay, until you didn't kill 3 of them because dominated anyway and decided to give a hatch for last person. Many of them would even blame you in being sweat because you won even playing that casual.
People care about their fun only, they won’t be grateful a lot and would probably skip it and barely remember. Not to shame them — they damn no need to be grateful just because other person played different.
So, it’s… absolutely rational to play without caring to much about other side experience. You are’t some therapist for them. Some people need to lower their expectations
I thanked a Pig today who let me boop her snoot while in the void, and who then hid outside the portal and immediately gave me my third hook :)
She was a fun Pig!
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997941#Comment_3997941
That pig is what I tell myself isn’t under my bed at night.
If that specific flying zoom Pig were under my bed at night, I'd definitely boop it on the snoot.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969444#Comment_3969444
and.. um.. this anti-tunnel update?
lets be real..
I don’t think the anti-tunnel changes will be anything too crazy or wild. Most likely just something like removing collision after unhook — which would make sense to shut down all those “I’ll just bodyblock with free BT” moments. Maybe they’ll add something like a free OTR or basekit DS on top.
But I doubt it’ll be anything major. I really think I’ll just keep tunneling right through it. At this point, most killers are already used to “working through” all the second-chance perks — DS, OTR, Babysitter, Shoulder, whatever.
So if they make some of that basekit? It probably won’t change much. People will just tunnel right through the new stuff too — because realistically, it’ll still be the most efficient thing you can do.
u know what would actually be nice for once? If you didn’t get punished the moment you decide not to tunnel. Like, I leave the hook, go for someone else — and heyoo, instant bodyblock into the new chase so they can protect the hooked one while still having DS active (because hey, “I wanna get value from my perk even if the killer doesn’t tunnel, otherwise why bring it, right?”)... and of course they’ve got Unbreakable or something in their back pocket too, just in case I catch on and decide to slug.
It's like… you try to play fair, and the whole kit is still waiting to punish you anyway.
You gotta deal with all that BS either way — so might as well go full throttle from the start and not play nice for nothing.
I'm not sure how someone is getting punished for a perk (like DS or bodyblocking with OTR) getting used; the survivor spent a perk slot on it, so they're free to try to get some use out of it if they want. If someone is dumb enough to try to bodyblock just to use those perks, it's also not tunneling to go ahead and get them on a hook again… the survivor in question literally asked for it at that point. And if they brought UB along with DS and OTR, then they spent almost their entire build on it.
You're not wrong that a strong survivor team on comms that hits gens will really get gens popping if the first couple chases don't go well for the killer, but the opposite is also true: if at some point a survivor is eliminated with too many gens left, or the wrong gen configuration, or a survivor player makes the wrong mistake, the match is likely over for the entire survivor team. And there are survivor players so good that they run chases by taking the optimal path around every tile for any move a killer makes. But even they still make mistakes, find themselves in bad positions, or can get outplayed. The real issue is just whether matches are so heavily favored for one side such that something like tunneling would be warranted.
What you just said is that you're going to go ahead and tunnel regardless of what happens. I understand that you're skeptical that any changes will meaningfully improve the situation so that you don't feel the need to tunnel, but if BHVR tries to bring along balance adjustments that ensure the 60% sacrifice rate is maintained across MMRs, tunneling is essentially never needed. So as long as they are careful and don't release some giant, all-in-one end-tunneling patch, but instead also make necessary balance adjustments over time to maintain proper balance, no problem :)
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969400#Comment_3969400
I'm not saying there's nothing that can be done — just that I see very few things actually being accepted by the survivor community, especially when it's something that gives the killer role a different way to play. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just been my experience over the years. It feels like the survivor community is only ever satisfied when they get something, but the killer role gets nothing. Again, maybe I'm wrong.
Personally, I do see a lot of things that could be changed. But they’re things I genuinely don’t believe will ever happen. Take the anti-gen perks, for example — something I brought up cautiously. In casual lobbies, where you're playing against survivors who go down instantly even with weak killers, these perks hit way too hard. These are lobbies where people can't loop, have no sense for safe unhooks, bad unhook timing, etc. Lobbies where people just feed the killer hook after Scourge Hook, and then you throw Dead Man's Switch on top.
These perks feel like they’re literally designed to ruin the experience for casual lobbies. Against strong players? You barely notice them. Scourge Hooks? You need a down and a hook first — and good players don’t just hand that to you. They time things smart, they don’t feed you. Dead Man’s? They know you have it, and they just tap a random unimportant gen somewhere so the block goes on that one. Deadlock? Casuals hang around the blocked gen and emote a bit… efficient players move 20 meters to the next gen and keep up the pressure.
Corrupt? Casuals sometimes take forever just to find a gen. Good players, on the other hand, know exactly where the important gens are and run to them immediately.
Same with the RNG we have on some maps. Casuals will never notice how wild the RNG can be on maps like MacMillan. They just shift around, drop a pallet here and there, run in circles and pray.
They don’t squeeze the max value out of structures, so they don’t realize how unfair some tile spawns can be. Total dead zones for survivors are just as awful as some god spawns — and both can happen.
If RNG were made healthier and more consistent, it would be a huge improvement — and most casual players wouldn’t even notice the difference.
Same goes for stacking different perks that make the killer’s life insanely hard — especially when fresh hooks are even less appealing because you know the person you’re tunneling has already burned through all their second-chance stuff. Meanwhile, any new chase means you’re walking right into someone who still has all their perks ready to go.
There’s a lot I personally csee that can should be changed. But let’s be real: nothing’s probably going to happen.
I actually think map balance is one of the most obvious answers that should go along with the proposed anti-tunnel updates. If there are genuinely survivor players who can't lose unless the killer tunnels, the obvious thing to adjust for that is tile design or map layout. Top tier survivors will feel the impact of a slightly shorter wall, or less chainable loops, but others will feel that less acutely since mid-MMR players are making mistakes more regularly and not looping perfectly anyway.
It's likely best done progressively, without the knowledge of the community though, so BHVR could do periodic updates to tweak sacrifice/escape rates until they hit the right equilibrium across all MMRs.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968890#Comment_3968890
To be fair, I get your point — and it's a solid one. I have to admit: you kind of grow numb to it after a while. Especially in those lobbies where you immediately dominate at the start and you know these players are going to go down fast.
But when you're used to regularly facing really strong teams, as a killer you simply don’t have the luxury or time to gauge how strong a group actually is. A quick first down doesn’t really say much about how the rest of the match will go, or how good that player really is. So you stick to your usual playstyle.
And then suddenly you’ve hit that point: “Oh. oppsi… that’s a win. And they’ve barely gotten a gen — maybe one at most.”
So what now? Let them go? Let them recover?The thing is, most players notice when you start going easy on them. And yeah, a lot of them just start farming at that point — and honestly… that doesn’t help anyone. If anything, it just cements the issue: players are ending up in lobbies they don’t belong in, and so am I.
And when you do “ease up” a bit, that group is going to die anyway. So you just make it quick and clean.
And often, even these kinds of players will still hit you with playstyles that killers really don’t like to see. (It’s not that you hate it as a killer, you just don’t want to let that kind of behavior slide, purely on principle.) — and that just reinforces it. So idk… , when someone’s being super dumb or just blatantly obnoxious, it’s really hard not to punish it.
I think you would hate me very, very, very much if you knew how I sometimes play, I guess.
Even when I’m playing strong killers, I still don’t cut any slack for obvious cheesy, dumb, greedy, or disrespectful plays.
Definitely agreed that stupid plays should get punished. Someone unhooks right behind you? What do they think is going to happen?
I also come up against those teams that are 4-person strong looping, on-task survivors. You often have to decide how the chase seems like it will go before it even proceeds since committing too long can get two gens done at the end of the first chase. My perspective is that those matches just go how they're going to go. If I overcommitted, that's my mistake, so I just deal with it and take the likely 1k. That also has kept me from ever thinking there was any need to tunnel since MMR does do its job and keeps me from exclusively facing those teams. What's super nice about that is that it let me keep growing my skill all the time while still enjoying most of my matches.
Also, I agree that some playstyles that are annoying need to be considered by the players using those tactics on both sides. For some people, getting blinded at every pallet can be infuriating, and some people let teabagging get under their skin, which is usually what the survivor wants. I run Bond most of the time on survivor, and when I see my teammates doing those things, I don't really blame the killer for taking disproportionate action back. Something about bad manners leading to more bad manners :/
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3968865#Comment_3968865
That’s just something you can’t expect in online games once you play with other people: your own fun isn’t always the ultimate measure of what others enjoy. Different people enjoy different things — and especially in online PvP games, you’re always going to run into players who get their fun from different things than you do. If you don’t want that, you shouldn’t play online PvP games — just singleplayer or co-op with a select group of people you know share the same interests as you.
I also don’t get the whole problem with “bully squads.” Those people bring everything they’ve got. They’re trying with every tool available to give me a hard time. That’s not bullying — they’re playing the game. It’s not the fault of the players who go all out, but more the mindset of the players who feel “bullied” because of it. Most of these so-called “evil bully squads” even type GG WP in the after-match chat. Especially when they’re good players, not just some kids having their 5 minutes of fame.
And yeah, the game doesn’t offer a lot of ways to interact. Sometimes you get a t-bag after a pallet stun if someone wants your attention — maybe followed by a little wave. I don’t find that super toxic. A quick noddin back, break tis pallet, and the chase goes on.
And it's never about ruining someone else's fun. If I have someone in my scope in ashooter and the match just started… yup, I’ll take this shot. Even if that person ends up out of the game at the very beginning and now has to sit through a 30-minute loading screen while we play it out smart — it’s not about ruining their experience, it’s just part of what PvP games are.
And in DBD, you have sooo many — literally hundreds — of ways to cover someone and get them back into the game.
You simply can’t expect your own idea of fun to apply to the entire lobby.
And personally, I don’t enjoy matches where I’m just thinking, “Huh? What is the killer even doing? Free heal under the hook… okay? What’s their mission?” Don’t just hand stuff to me for free.
Like… what? You don’t want me now? I just completely misplayed — hello? I was just on hook, I already lost a hook state, I should be your target right now.
I don’t enjoy games where the killer doesn’t feel like a threat and I know we can make tons of mistakes and still get out easily.
Not evryone enjoys the same kind of match — and that’s okay.
I enjoy it way more when the killer actually feels like a killer — someone you have to respect and have to play smart against.
I like it when I know: “Alright… one or two mistakes and I’m out.” That’s what makes the match intense for me.
But that's kind of the point isn't it? For a huge fraction of players, being hard tunneled or having someone on their team get tunneled like that just isn't fun. Just because someone thinks they won't have fun if they don't do something that objectively ruins someone else's experience, and possibly the experience of four other people, that doesn't mean they should do it.
In any games played with other people for fun, the players absolutely should think of the experience of the people they play the game with. Imagine if DBD were somehow played like an in person game. Maybe we could only play it by showing up and sitting together like a tabletop game. I'd strongly suspect that people who are known to hard tunnel would struggle to get a lot of people to play the game with them. It would probably get house-ruled out of most matches.
More broadly, I think it's a serious problem of online games that there are people who don't bother to think of the experience of the people they play the game with. That mindset leads to a lack of accountability for a person's actions, which makes it easy for toxic communities to develop. That lack of accountability leads to degradation of the social interactions in and surrounding gaming. But social interactions are a fundamental part of games played with other people. I honestly think that people who don't want to consider the feelings and experience of the people who they share the game with shouldn't be playing multiplayer games :(
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@oecrophy said:
I play both sides.
As killer, I don’t follow some unwritten rulebook. I proxy camp if it makes sense, I tunnel – sometimes even right from the start – and I slug if I need the pressure or if the situation calls for it.But that also means: no double standards from me. If the killer tunnels me as survivor? I don’t care. Tunnel me. I don’t care.
Even if you show up with something strong – Nurse, Blight, whatever – I know that if I’m the one being tunneled, I’ve got to step up and deliver for my team. And if I mess up my chase or don’t get proper cover:
Sorry team, I tried. my badIf it’s a really good killer and the map favors them and I’m not in a full team, I’m often fully aware:
I’m probably not making it out. Especially in SoloQ.
(That said – I’ve also had SoloQ matches with insane teamwork and cover from randys. Props to my SoloQ teammates <3 But yipp – most SoloQ teams still break down at some point because of a mistake or missing comms.)Either way, I fight until the very end.
Personally, I don’t think this whole tunneling thing is as bad or as big of a deal as people make it out to be.Most of the time i really dont care if i get tunneled tbh.
The entire map is now mine – I know where I’ve been, what resources are gone, and where I can still take the chase.
Way better than going against killers who are constantly switching targets, barely committing to chases, and just trying to catch people in dead zones for quick downs. That kind of playstyle just makes the whole match feel like there were no real chases. (more borin for me, less teamplay, less interaction)But anything you do that’s considered “dirty” will always be seen as “toxic.” That’s how it’s been since 2016 and it’s still a thing today. I think that’s honestly sad and unfortunate. For me, nothing that happens during the match is truly toxic unless it clearly breaks BHVR’s actual rules. As long as it’s within the game mechanics, it’s fair game.
what I personally think makes DBD “toxic” is the after-chat — that’s where most of the negativity comes from. d lot of DBD players have never really played true PvP games before and just can’t handle it when others don’t see DBD as a chill horror game with skill checks and friends, but instead treat it like a competitive PvP game it also is. ( I mean, everyone should just play however they want.)
but.. that’s something you just have to expect when you play online PvP games with random people — not everyone plays the way you want them to. Some play harder, more ruthless, and that’s valid too. I personally don’t take any of it too seriously. I come from games like Hunt: Showdown and Tarkov. I know what real “camping” looks like — when someone literally sits in a bush for 40 minutes just to hold a body and make sure that team has absolutely zero chance of getting it back.
And that’s why you lose everything. A Hunter you’ve spent hours leveling up is permanently gone, your entire loadout is wiped… etc. That’s why I can’t really take the whole thing in DBD too seriously, where you can lose almost nothing in like 10 minutes and jump straight into the next match.
maybe that’s why I don’t take all the “boohoo the killer’s camping and now tunneling too” talk in DBD too seriously, idk
You think that playing dirty in a game that's meant to be fun is completely alright? Maybe next time I play basketball, I'll intentionally foul my friends and try to get under their skin so they make mistakes. I'm sure they'll keep being my friends.
Really though, it's not alright for someone to ruin another player's experience just because they can. Forcing one player to be unable to play the game except to be eliminated, and making them not able to participate in the game in a meaningful way is definitely toxic. It's essentially the killer equivalent of what a bully squad is trying to do, except that bully squads tend to be weak. Meanwhile, tunneling out a survivor will typically also ruin the game for the rest of the survivors also.
Personally, I don't see matches where people tunnel or just run back to the hook all the time to be real games. They're just a waste of however much time it took the killer to win using cheap exploits. In that sense, those games are also like matches with bully squads: even when I 4k them, those games aren't fun; they're just a waste of my time since I'm dealing with people specifically trying to keep me from playing the game.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
Bots are cracked in my lobbies. 🤣
They do it all!
The only thing I notice they do that they shouldn’t is run edge map sometimes in a chase. They get confused.
My bots have usually been good like that in the past, but a couple days ago I had a bot just unhook me and run away when the killer was far away in a chase.
I guess the bot knew some big brain play that I didn't :D
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I just realized that a Psych chapter could be a partial answer to not having Friday the 13th. There could be a Tikihama map, which would also be an iconic horror setting :D
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967131#Comment_3967131
It was a P0 baby Pig 🐖
TheThey didn't have a single Tier 3 perk
P0 baby Pig sounds cute! … in spite of the iri addon, NOED, and mori.
I always feel like the addon that starts you with Pig hats on your heads has to be used with a build built for it. But I totally agree that it feels like the Pig already did some kind of psychological mindgame when I start with an RBT on :D
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Spawning in with these already on my head is terrifying
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3CEDYV4GS8MC/1000030349.jpg
Did your Pig use Rule Set No. 2?
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965846#Comment_3965846
“Wait for iiiiiit” and “come on son”
You know that's right!
Also, I'd probably end up changing my Steam name to Lavender Gooms, or maybe 'A Player Named Gus'.
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@hermitkermit said:
I would buy literally all of them. And if anyone was Lassie I would absolutely follow them around like Shawn. This would be so fun :D
I want a perk called 'Wait for iiiiiiiiiitt!'
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Not sure if someone else mentioned this already, but once you know you have a bully squad, don't pick up until you know nobody's around for a save. Most bully squads (groups that try to prevent you from ever getting hooks) can be reliably beaten by an M1 killer if you assume they'll have people around for saves and you slug them until you know you can pick up.
I personally always try to play in a way that I'd want to be played against as killer. So I don't tunnel, camp, or slug for 4k. But if a squad actually tries to bully me, I consider that rude enough that I'm willing to forget those rules. If people are intentionally trying to make your experience miserable, don't worry about playing nice. If one player appears to not be in on it, I will try not to be rude to them though :)
Anyway, against those teams, personally, I was unable to have fun for a long time. I'd usually win, but find the match annoying and have to play another match to relax. Now, even with Pig (my main), I don't remember the last time a bully squad gave me trouble.
So I'd personally say just slug them and search the area before you pickup. If they're around, make sure they're injured and running far before you pick up. And don't fall for locker hops; someone will have a flashbang or Head-On. Oh, and if you want to swap around a chase perks for PWYF in some of your builds... bully squads will defeat themselves for you :)
I have a feeling you'll start winning every one of these matches soon. But I do remember that I used to find bully squads frustrating enough that I had to do something fun to relax afterwards. So just intentionally doing something fun (maybe even just a meme match) did help me relax in the past :D
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@ShyPirate said:
I find it hard to believe there are any true Psych fans here when no one has suggested a Mary Lightly skin yet 😆
I mean, when someone's skills include making fashionable lampshades out of skin, they might be a better fit for the chapter's killer ;)
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Also, even though the obvious killer for this chapter would be Yin, it turns out to be the actual Dread Pirate Roberts.
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I would pay money for a Bruton Gaster skin. Or maybe Ghee Buttersnaps.
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lol Don't be silly. Matches currently go roughly in this order:
Springtrap --> Ghoul --> Springtrap --> Ghoul --> Springtrap --> Springtrap --> Blight --> Ghoul --> Springtrap --> Ghoul
I guess that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I definitely see those two killers more than any other by far. My biggest complaint about Ghoul these days is that almost all of them can be expected to run back to the hook. It's like they think they'll get a treat if they run back to the hook. When you couple that with free injuries, Ghoul becomes extremely annoying to play against. I agree :/
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@HeroLives said:
Friend friend @smurf they’re buffing Pig! All that tinkering in the dark has finally paid off! I’m so happy for you 🥹
Thank you Hero! Pig has plotted long in hiding, waiting for this moment!
🌳🐽🌳
For real though, the Pig buffs sound like they'll add a little needed boost to Pig's ability to shave seconds off of stealthing, and make her ambush connect a little more often. The Pigpen will be abuzz... with roars and stuff :)
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I also didn't know this. I kinda of want to know how that impacts enacting Ambush from the crouch animation. Are we getting the effect used in @Brokenbones' example?
I want to make sure we need to hold down a button to finish executing Ambush since it's necessary to mindgame the dash at pallets to try to force survivors away from certain loops. If we can prematurely lock ourselves into a dash, that would be a proverbial Pig nerf 🐽🏐
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950542#Comment_3950542
I've always believed that Our Lady is one of the best killers to learn the fundamentals of DBD on.
She relies quite heavily on sound M1 knowledge, but her RBT slowdown used at a basic level buys you the time you need to really practice your m1 gameplay.
Never be embarrassed at 3e or 4e games. Pig is a labour of love, canonically you're merely giving survivors a perceived chance to save themselves... rather than trying to kill them as fast as possible... if your kill everyone, who is gonna share the tales? 😏
This is what I tell people when I give them hatch. Someone has to live to tell the tale :)
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Maybe the split queue is coupling with an increased number of low MMR killers (due to the FNAF release) in a way that causes matchmaking to be relatively long for low MMR players. If that's true, it could be the case that the MMR range they're paired with will get extended to ensure they eventually get a match within a certain time frame.
But that's just a guess :)
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956437#Comment_3956437
Likewise. Might come down to what peoples definition of BM is. I'm on console so I'm not subjected to post-game chat. I'd imagine there can be negative comments in there. And in-game, I rarely cop tbags. I think in the last month I've gotten 2 total? Even escorting them out the exit I don't get tbagged.
Glad to know I'm not the only one. Sometimes I really wonder what causes the differences between what some people talk about here and what I experience and even see on Twitch. I'm even on PC, so I get postgame chat, and still don't see much of this. Sometimes I'll even switch over to killer just so I can have a more relaxed match.
It's possible that it's because I don't care much about the outcome, so for me some players might realize attempts at bm are ineffective or even counter to what they want. Hard to say :/
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955883#Comment_3955883
I've actually tested this. In over 90% of games that I lose, I get BM'd by at least one survivor.
That's fair. I get very little bm though, and I wonder why the experience is different. I did a misplay a couple days ago that got me a 0k, and none of the survivors tried to teabag while they got their teammate out at the gate. And I very rarely see teabagging during the game or at the gates in general. I'll occasionally see one survivor in a group teabag after a pallet drop, but that usually doesn't even persist for the rest of a single chase.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956170#Comment_3956170
Now, this version would kind of help the survivor in a slugging for a 4k situation, with becoming last survivor STANDING (not alive, just not downed/hooked) losing all crows and getting 140 seconds to do practically anything.
I imagine that's probably a good thing :)
I'm also definitely still curious if I can find some examples I can watch of cases where whole teams of survivors were hiding. That has less to do with your whole post and more to do with a part of the topic that I've seen people mention on these forums, but have almost never experienced. At the moment, tweaking AFK crows for hiding feels to me a little like tweaking hamburgers because one of them tasted bad. Like, somebody had a bad experience once, but not so bad that it ruined their experience of the game over time, but let's just change the whole system just in case.
I imagine this must be happening more often than in my experience though. Maybe I need to go search around to see if people have posted some videos :D
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956170#Comment_3956170
It happens in almost every second or third game when i play myers for me as a killer i play on ps5 they can see im on console i would say i play avg killer i obey the rules, if i see flashlights i run lightborn if i dont see it then i dont.
I swear its the play with friend squads that run flashlights that do this behavior.
Meanwhile on survivor side i get them almost every next game or every second game, they reset it by running around doing totems and chests and spend few seconds repairing then dipping across the universe and hiding entire match refusing to even do half a gen or go unhook their mate across the other map where killer isnt located at.
I run killer info aura perk to help out when there is one person hooked and we all see each other so it just is them
It's just weird to me that other people talk about whole teams hiding, but I have never experienced it myself. I definitely accept that this happens to you, but I wonder what causes the difference. If some people experience this often, I would think this would be something that I would at least have seen occasionally on stream.
The only instance I've ever seen was a very weird swf streaming, with each other as viewers that I happened to drop in and see. They called out the killer's location and hid for most of the game. I did wonder why the killer wasn't finding them, but they were also clearly out of their depth. It was very sad to watch :/
It is known that sometimes a survivor player will hide and not do much for an entire match. Those do occur, and usually doom their team when it happens.
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My opinion is that extreme hiding appears to be an issue that never needed solving as it essentially never happens. I know that personally, I've seen exactly one case of hiding that was ever problematic for a killer, whether I was the killer or when watching any of a number of streamers, which I do nearly every day.
Is there any evidence shown by anyone that this is genuinely a problem? I don't believe it at all at the moment, and currently suspect it was a massive waste of time and resources for BHVR.
I guess it's possible that people who play killer by tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging for 4k are more likely to see such behavior, as people playing survivor in such matches might be inclined to not even interact with the killer. But at that point, why are we punishing people who got BMed by giving them AFK crows?
I will agree that survivor teams suffer if one player does a disproportionate amount of hiding and doesn't take chase when they need to. Maybe in that context, AFK crows make some sense.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955829#Comment_3955829
That's nice in theory. In reality, every time a survivor escapes they go out of their way to be as obnoxious as possible about it.
Every time a survivor escapes?
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@Rick1998 said:
literally every stealth killer is super low on tierlists . Wraith abd springtrap are the best stealth killers and they sit on B tier. You are on pure copium from your personal negative experience.
The OP did admit to not being great in chase. It's possible they're in an MMR range where challenges are different than for a lot of players on the forums. I won't claim to have any other knowledge of the OP or talk more in any way about them, but I'd say that there are very different challenges between different MMR ranges.
A player that doesn't last long in chase might get destroyed by a Ghostface or Meyers because they're getting one-shot downs after a short chase. At higher MMR, the play is very different, where the lack of antiloop makes those killers much less effective. I think one thing that happens in the forums is that some players don't always keep in mind that different skill tiers can have very different challenges :/
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955586#Comment_3955586
I am not that great at killer but I am being matched with people out of my league. I get it and I am not mad about I just don’t like how they taunt at the end of a match it makes no sense to me. I have been playing video games since Atari came out so if you wanted to play someone they were right next to you and you knew how to act.
My son must shook it off. He knows people say stupid things, but what if he was more naive or just in a bad mental place. People have no respect and it’s sad.
Fully agreed. I vaguely remember trying to get Spiderman to climb that damn building with a joystick and button, but have more memories of games from just a bit later :D
But if people kept acting like they do in online gaming communities, they definitely weren't getting invited back for long…
I do actually find the DBD community way way better than the LoL community though. I quit League because I got tired of the way people acted. So I'm pretty happy to engage here and on Twitch, and try to be mostly positive :)
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
I thought I was the only one being miserable. I did do killer and those survivors are just toxic as anything. The best my kid played on Friday and ran a killer for 2 gens then gets a message to kill himself. It was reported but nothing done.
They should follow up on that kind of report. Did you also submit a report at Behavior's website?
I've been finding the event super fun as killer and miserable as survivor. I'm sorry to hear your kid had that experience :(
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955411#Comment_3955411
there's a silly one around somewhere...I think its Houndmaster? if you type "dog" i believe her perks come up.
lol I'm a fan of that. It would be fun if searching for 'dog' also brought up Demodog's perks :D
Also, not sure why someone downvoted a dog-themed comment 🐶
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@Skillfulstone said:
Keep in mind that, in events & modifiers, MMR is deactivated (as far as I know).
A day 1 player actually has a slim chance of playing with/vs people from the top 1%.
So insane MMR mismatches are very common during events.
MMR being deactivated also affects some players' behavior;
-Killers can 4k all they want with no fear of climbing MMR and ending up against strong teams.
-Survivors care a bit less about dying and farming BP sometimes take priority over actually escaping.
If I recall correctly, MMR is still used for matchmaking in such events, but it is not updated for certain events regardless of the match outcome.
I think the idea is that modifiers don't reflect core gameplay skill levels, and thus shouldn't be used to advance or lower MMR. But they do want to avoid insane skill mismatches where possible.
Basically, we're supposed to be able to just have some fun without having that get us into crazy situations later…whether or not that's what people are actually doing... I agree that the event is absolutely filled with tunneling and proxy camping to such an extent that if the core game were like this, BHVR would probably go out of business.
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In the past, I've started to believe BHVR implemented a set of tags for perks in addition to the ability to search perk text. That way when searching for perks related to certain contexts, they'll be easier to find. But I don't have proof of that offhand :/
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@Thusly_Boned said:
I play strictly solo queue when playing surv and have since 2020 (when I started playing survivor), and more and more surv each year since. I've played 3-4 matches not totally on my own, and all of them were years ago. According to DBD's stats, my global escape rate is just a hair under 40%.
I can attest to this. I have been in solo matches with you :)
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954849#Comment_3954849
Day 1 Holding it Down for the Underground
It is true the rumors whispered about Pig. I went above ground to see what they now call the “Wasteland”. They still let you visit but there’s no resources there anymore. However, there tucked away in a decrepit chest in a relic glass from the past there was a note scribbled on the parchment it reads:
“ We opened Pandora’s box, and what was once just a stealthing Pig now gained a new ability, they say the traps weren’t enough, she needed something more and there in the dark Pig tinkered until she emerged with a new trap, one with wings. She now has the ability for aerial attacks to zone and trap us; as well as a dive bomb. It was too strong though and resources nuked.” -end note-
Out of need for adaptation we have fled to the underground. Now only guided by the odd light here and there to make our way through the tunnels stumbling in the dark. Jungle gyms we now have to carve for ourselves for any lines of defense, even then one swipe can bring the whole thing down. We feared the death from above, but nothing could have prepared us for the horrors that awaited below, thus 2 S tier killers with kit buffs emerged from their underground palace in a surprise rework a new Xeno and Demo was reborn.
I feel like the devs would read this and maybe see our evolving story as poetic since it probably reflects part of their development arc. Nerf, buff, nerf, buff...
Also, good choice for the killers! Demo and Xeno are both cuddly animals who I have booped :D
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@Feather said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954851#Comment_3954851
Both. It doesnt bother me that much tbf
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954849#Comment_3954849
That. That is beatiful
lol ty! My sleep-deprived brain felt inspired when you said survivors carried gens around and repaired them in chase :D
Also, I felt like it was fitting for Pig to be the center of that story since I Am Legend starred Will Smith, and Pig is played by Shawnee Smith... same last name and stuff :)
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In a particular trial with the Trapper, Vittorio, Mikaela, and Dwight all worked together to uncover the secrets of the Entity's realm as Meg ran the killer for like, 17 gens.
While the Trapper was busy stepping in his own traps, the survivors discovered that it was possible to leave behind information and items which they could discover in future trials by storing messages written on map parchment and stored inside jars of salty lips.
On the first day of their discovery, Dwight, being the leader of the group, wrote down the first of the scrolls, this one containing his idea to make survivors able to outwit the killer. It said only two words "backpack gen".
That was years ago. Now everything has changed. I write this as I hide, crouched behind some kind of weird flower on Toba landing, using my stealth no longer to hunt the survivors en masse, but to bide my time and slowly restore the natural order. I have discovered how to use my Pig mask to pretend to be Meg, and slowly I have begun to hunt down these survivors that now rule the Entity's realm.
Tales now pass through their ranks of a roar from the shadows as a survivor disappears not to be heard from again. My story is told by survivors to each other at the campfire in hushed whispers. Once, I was just a Pig. But now, I Am Legend.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953743#Comment_3953743
The problem is a lot of survivors want to punish or prevent killers from camping, but also want to be able to hide far away from generators when the killer leaves a hooked survivor to patrol the map.
Survivors in a SWF want the hooked survivor to warn their teammates that the killer left the hook, so all the other survivors can pre-leave the generators to hide, and create a situation where they get a free unhook, but the killer doesn't find anyone else to chase. These survivors want to weaponize anti-camping to get free unhooks.
That's a serious overgeneralization. Most swfs are not doing this. Lots of them do use comms to call out the killer's position, but relatively few just hide for the entire match. I wrote more, but deleted it because I don't think this is a serious discussion.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953772#Comment_3953772
I think that this game needs to decide what it wants to be.
Is it a competitive game where both sides try to win? Then 90% of the killer roster needs massive buffs. Give blanket action speed penalties to survivors in groups to counteract the absolutely massive advantage comms give them. Either it's a competitive game that strives for balance, or it's not. But catering to and balancing around Solo Q while SWFs just keep getting stronger is not balanced to the killer, is it? So if it's a competitive game, SWF needs to be reigned in.
Is it a casual, party game where people play for fun? Then get rid of SBMM and embrace the goofier aspects and horror theme of the game. Make the killer this oppressive force that the survivors are actually afraid of and desperately trying to escape. Turn it back into Hide and Seek instead of Hide and Tag. Because right now, the game is more Tom and Jerry and less horror movie.
However, I feel like both sides keep trying to sweat, then complain when the other side doesn't play for fun. "The killer's tunneling stopped us from completing gens in four minutes and tbagging them at the gates!" "The survivors doing gens in four minutes stopped me from getting a 4k!" "I want to run fun meme builds, yet still win most of my games!"
Everyone wants to compete and win, but nobody wants to have to actually sweat for those wins.
Haha! I definitely agree about it being more like Tom and Jerry than horror :)
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953756#Comment_3953756
Lol. Cmon. You and I both know that very, VERY few killer players can go against a 4 man without tunneling at all. I don't think even good comp players could do it. I mean, when they go against really good survivors, there's usually rules about what perks survivors can bring and what items they have. But in pubs, you can get 4 cracked medkits with syringes and 16 meta perks. Without tunneling, Lilith Omen's Blight streak wouldn't have reached 20, much less 2000.
Hence suggesting it's likely that killer powers need to be part of the discussion, or that MMR-specific tweaks or other adjustments might be needed. Honestly though, it shouldn't be possible for people to be getting massive win streaks the way some people do.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953540#Comment_3953540
Okay. Apparently you're not understanding, so I'll try to explain it differently.
Let's say, hypothetically, that right now, there's 1000 High MMR survivors and 250 High MMR killers. Don't focus too hard on the numbers, they're just for illustrative purposes. However, according to you, and even Mandy, a lot of those 250 High MMR killers don't deserve to be there, right? They used "cheap exploits" to boost their MMR.
So you get rid of tunneling, and now the killers that used to rely on tunneling as a strategy against good players can no longer do that. Let's say 50% of those killer players. And they lose their way into a lower MMR bracket over the course of hundreds of games (assuming they stick around that long and don't just drop the game.)
Now, you still have 1000 High MMR survivors, but you only have 125 High MMR killers. That means that at any given time, 500 of those survivors don't have a High MMR killer to match with. So, after a few minutes, matchmaking gets the next best thing: A Mid-MMR killer who's about to absolutely get his teeth kicked in. So the survivors do their thing and stunt on a killer who never really stood a chance. Maybe if he'd have been able to tunnel, he'd have caught the survivors overextending and gotten a kill or three. But without it, he just gets two hooks and bagged at the gates.
You can call it a "skill issue" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that there's not enough Lilith Omens to go around. The killer players who are good enough to go against a good survivor squad without tunneling or slugging are extremely rare. So what's actually going to happen is that matchmaking is going to continually pull mediocre killers to go against survivors far outside their MMR range for the sake of expediency, and the mediocre killer is going to get his teeth kicked in.
I have no problem with taking away tunneling, or camping, or whatever. As long as you tighten matchmaking. If that means that some cracked TTV swf squad, or even just really good solo queue, has to wait thirty minutes to get a match with yet another comp Nurse, then so be it. But don't match them with a killer who's just going to get their butt handed to them after taking away any strategy that killer would have had to actually compete with those survivors.
And you can walk around telling these killer players to "git gud" all you want… but they won't. They'll either stop playing altogether or just give up when it becomes clear that the survivors are too good for them to compete with. I know I'm not going to be anyone's dancing monkey. If three gens pop in the first chase or two, I'll just tab out and surf Reddit or something. That happens often enough, I'll just play something else. Killer players are way more likely to drop the game than survivors. It's a solitary role, so there's no social pressure to log in to slog through it.
And if enough killer players decide it's not worth it, the game will die before BHVR has a chance to course correct. They'll be too busy "watching carefully," and we all know how long it takes for them to get any changes out of the door. So this idea that we'll just "buff killers later as needed" won't really work, because those killers will have moved on to another game. Then the queue times start adding up, and survivors start leaving because they can't get matches. It's literally what has happened to pretty much every other asymmetrical pvp game so far. One side (usually the "survivor side") whines and complains about things until the devs cave, and then the "killer side" just quits the game because it's no longer fun.
BHVR needs to tread very carefully with Phase 2, or it will join everyone else in the junk pile.
No worries, I understood that idea long before you mentioned it here :)
The problem is that that concept is often discussed in a way that lacks a great deal of nuance. Most problems have some subtleties that make their solutions require a bit of careful planning to correctly solve for specific details.
One of those nuances here is that it's not necessarily the case that, without tunneling, the matchmaking system will just match people against massively skill-mismatched opponents. Instead, the kill rate might go down somewhat, but the experience might still be fine for the newly matched players.
That arises because while tunneling will typically lead to a player having higher MMR than someone who doesn't tunnel, given the same skill level with a given killer, that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't sufficient non-tunneling high MMR killer players to face high MMR survivor players. It just means that those killer players will have tougher matches on average. But whether that should be the case and whether that's fun for the players in question is an important issue of killer-specific balance. That's why I mentioned cross-MMR killer-specific balance :D
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953638#Comment_3953638
Excessive hiding is an issue because it heavily encourages the killer to camp and tunnel. When a killer hooks a survivor, the expectation is the killer should patrol the map to find someone else. But if all the other survivors are hiding, and the killer can't find anyone, then the killer is heavily encouraged to just go back to the hook and camp.
And that is the biggest problem with anti-camping mechanics. If the killer is expected to leave a hooked survivor to find a new target, then there needs to be a realistic expectation the killer can find a new target.
And excessive hiding is MASSIVELY UNFUN for the killer. Leaving a hooked survivor to patrol the map, and finding zero survivors because they are all hiding far away from generators, is massively unfun. Killers should not be punished for camping, if zero survivors are repairing generators, because there's zero reason to patrol generators if zero survivors are repairing them.
I guess whether hiding is fun for the killer just depends on the player's opinion. I find the hunt more fun than the chase given the way the game is designed. It feels tense to me in a way I think horror should feel; the killer always on the verge of finding a survivor. The chase should also feel tense, but having most of a match occupied by chases makes them feel not quite like I would personally prefer. My preference would be that chases be brief and tense, punctuating a tense search where the killerbis never farbfrom finding a survivor. But that's probably why I like Lights Out so much :)
But survivors hiding while their teammate is on hook is more an issue of survivor and killer skill. The survivors should be doing gens or preparing for a save when someone is on hook. Otherwise, time is wasted in the trial, and the killer gets closer to putting the survivors in a 1v3 with fewer gens done. They shouldn't be hiding when their teammate is on hook except when they know the killer is getting close. That means the killer should be able to just patrol gens, find one with more progress than before, and know that a survivor is likely nearby when they find gens that aren't regressing. But that type of hiding doesn't encourage camping since it's typically pretty easy to find a survivor near their gen and patrolling gens will help keep gen progress down.
So if the survivors and killer all know what they're doing, there should be little or no need to return to the hook. An obvious exception is if a survivor lacks the understanding that they need to let the killer get away from the hook far enough before unhooking. If someone is unhooked right behind the killer, I'd say it's reasonable for the killer to turn around and go back to the hook since a survivor tried to deny the killer the pressure of time on hook and told the killer right where they are just feet away.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953638#Comment_3953638
I was playing well above my skill level as survivor for years, simply because I always focused gens. That one simple focus led me to rank 1 every month, yet it would take me over 3 years to even learn how to loop properly. Over time the balance and kill rates of the game shifted and I would definitely agree that wouldn't be as extreme today as it was then, but… I was really bad at survivor all that time. I wouldn't even say I became great, but I would say that gen focus continues to be the primary contributor to gens actually getting done, and that not-ignoring-gens still isn't a mark of skill.
Ironically, I would argue that the more skillful survivor plays are the ones that make you more likely to get killed, either via sunk cost fallacy from the killer securing a kill, saving other survivors who leave you high and dry, strategic trades, etc. I'd argue its easier to get carried by a good teammate than it is to expect a bad teammate to carry their weight. MMR being based on escapes is anathema to being used as a metric of skilled play. Much like it is of kills vs their skill in getting them.
I definitely agree with that. Personally, I get sacrificed in a lot of games where I should just take an escape or could play greedy. But I always go for endgame saves if there's a mild chance of getting them. That likely leads to my survivor MMR being lower than it needs to be.
And in survivor games where I get unlucky early on, I'll try to be low-risk for a while and get gens done for my team. But then I also often consider the utility of sacrificing myself for my teammates if a me-or-then choice comes up. Ultimately, I try to pick the option that does the most good for all remaining survivors :D
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953424#Comment_3953424
I mean the people that never learned how to properly be in chase with killers, and these survivors excessively hide, and rely on their teammates to be good in chase.
Survivors are going to be around the same escape rate, regardless of their strength and weaknesses. So if a survivor doesn't learn how to handle chases, they will eventually reach an MMR where they really can't handle chases.
I guess that what I see for those players is that in some fraction of games, they'll still get found as long as they're trying to work on gens, do heals, etc. And that means they'll still get eliminated at a slightly higher rate than players who are good in chase, which will give them a lower MMR. They won't be escaping at the same rate as their teammates.
You're right that their MMR will become higher than if they go take chase all the time when they're not good at it. But I also don't see that as a problem. It's not something that makes the game unenjoyable for the killer, and if they do gens and stuff, they're still making the match playable for everyone.
But I also think stealth should be part of the game, even more so than it is now. Personally, I think looping is one of the least fun aspects of both killer and survivor. I practiced and developed skill in it out of necessity, but it's so anti-horror that I wish the game built more tension through hide-and-seek/cat-and-mouse style gameplay. I really love Lights Out for that reason. So as survivor and as killer, I actually like when survivors hide, as long as they're not doing it to the extent they're a detriment to their team. Everyone else is on death hook? Time to take chase instead of hiding. Have a hook state to spare? Go take a hit for your death hook teammate that just got found. But as long as they're productive players, I like survivors who hide and make the game a little more tense and horror-esque :D
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953052#Comment_3953052
But that doesn't really address my point. My point is that there's not enough "good" killers who can play against good survivors without tunneling/slugging/etc. Those survivors are still going to queue and are still going to get matches. So matchmaking is just going to keep slotting the same people into those matches as it is now, except those killers won't even have the opportunity to compete without their "handicaps."
I'd be all for this idea if matchmaking was more strict, but it's not.
What I said definitely addressed your point. I'll say it again with different words:
The people tunneling "as a strategy" now just won't be able to do that anymore, and they might find that they're not actually as good at the game as people who rely on actual skill instead of cheap exploits. That means that the people facing the top survivors now might not all get to keep facing the top survivors once anti-tunneling is implemented.
And if there is actually a genuine balance issue such that nobody can compete anymore, then it's time for BHVR to actually balance their game such that more of the killer roster can compete using actual talent instead of cheap exploits that ruin the game for people. If there is 'a need to tunnel', that means BHVR has not balanced their game.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
As a side, I love the direction of this post. What started as a fair question about haste stacking has quickly turned into: "What did you do to Taurie, you monster!".
Taurie didn't bring an item for Springtrap to eat. She should have seen this coming.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953052#Comment_3953052
And the playing who are currently overreliant on extreme hiding, may not be as good as people who are good in chases. But here we are, with AFK crows that are so nerfed, that survivors can hide for over 20 minutes, if they open 1 chest.
By overreliant on hiding, do you mean players who never take chase and whose teams suffer as a result? If so, most people doing that should probably be escaping through the gate less often than people who take chase when their teammates have hook states.
That should mean their MMR is already relatively lower than people who play in a way that's more useful for their team. That shouldn't lead to the same issue as tunneling since they should mostly be struggling to increase and maintain their MMR (as hatch escapes don't increase MMR).