smurf
smurf
About
- Username
- smurf
- Joined
- Visits
- 3,387
- Last Active
Comments
-
Wait, I just read the update and it sounds like the final survivor can be moried from full health if the second to last survivor is on the struggle phase. That has to be a mistake right?
I've seen and even been on both sides of cases where the last survivor is being chased by the killer, but the last survivor gets hatch. Why are we taking away the most fun part of hatch races? I remember once when I got downed of top of hatch and escaped while the killer wiped their weapon.
This should apply only if the last survivor is in the dying state.
-
I had two recent server disconnects, while my internet was fine, and recieved disconnect penalties for them.
So, I decided to stop stacking penalties and go watch some streamers or something. Not sure if there's a fix for that situation though since removing the penalty could allow bad actors to take advantage of some flaws to get free DCs.
But yeah, I experience this too.
-
I would support Dwight having a broadsword made out of cardboard.
-
@GentlemanFridge said:
The only thing I still think she ‘needs’ is for the roar to start after the ambush fully charges, not during.
No! Please do not take away my ability to Ambush fake at pallets. Survivors will often abandon weak pallets in anticipation of an ambush if they've allowed her to take the pallet, especially if they hear her roar. If the Ambush is faked, survivors will often not be able to make the next resource before she catches up to get the down :)
Also this: 👉🐽
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931706#Comment_3931706
I feel perhaps you're responding to the vague idea of tunnelling more than the actual post, here.
You have incredible patience. I couldn't have responded to as many posts as you have here while also remaining civil toward people who in some cases try to twist your meaning. Here's a trophy 🏆
-
@Flawless_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929486#Comment_3929486
I mean yea it's not that big of a deal, but it just feels off to "win" while everyone else just left. I'd like to at least get to say gg to the people I'm going against? Also it's weird to me that if things aren't going well as killer I'm still being forced to play till the last survivor decides the game is over, yet the moment the game goes south for the surv team everyone can just quit with no consequences. I get that you can't force people to play the game but as killer I have to play till the end whether I want to or not, so what are we addressing then? Is it just the slugging or is it that people just can't cope with losing a match?. But again, not that big of a deal. Although I do think regardless of what triggers it shouldn't count as a loss or even a draw for the killer if they slug.
Yeah, I do enjoy interacting in the postgame chat. From the other side of things, yesterday I befriended a killer and then gave them a kill because I got them to let me do a challenge. Then I wanted to thank them in the chat afterwards, but they were on console.
I think you're right that certain parts of the experience for killers and survivors need to be preserved. Like I keep arguing for killers to get an abandon option in some restrictive endgame scenario to prevent bm at the gate. But I try to make sure my suggestions keep the endgame collapse preserved since that's a fun and important phase of the game. Mostly, I think the abandon feature is a good thing, and I want to see it used to improve everyone's experiences, mainly by preventing bm and possibly just certain very annoying game states. I think that can do a lot of good for the community :D
-
How is this a problem? The killer still gets to finish the match. It's not like there's some satisfaction to be gained in forcing a defeated opponent to play out a match. Once the abandon option is granted in the current state, the game is essentially over.
But the current system allows the killer still gets to get their blood points and has the ability to play out the rest of the match. I've hooked my bots before, taken my bp and called it a good match. The only thing that's sad about that situation is that I wanted to give someone hatch. But that doesn't impact me much since my opponents still got to just go next once the match was clearly done.
I'm not understanding why this is an issue. Maybe I'm missing something you wrote? Can you explain in case I did misunderstand something?
-
@frozzenk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928833#Comment_3928833
There is absolutely no reason to NOT seek equality in this other than bias. It's not a perception of it. It's great that one team has the option. The other team should too. Both teams should have the option. This is what a fair person would argue for.
Disagreeing with this means you only want ONE team to have it. That is bias by definition. No matter how fair you think you are, if you are in here defending that one team should have an option while the other team should not, then you are part of the issue. This is a general "you" not a specific you to your person, by the way.
And if you're in here typing stuff like "be the bigger person, just go deal with it" at killers to defend them not having an option that you DO HAVE, like someone literally did earlier in this thread, you are committing hypocrisy to an absurd degree. These should be called out. These people are the rotten apples of the community. This community needs far less hypocrisy than it currently has.
Yeah, I agree overall. I guess I also see some of the other comments in the thread using language that can inadvertently lead to people digging into their positions rather than coming to an acceptable compromise :/
-
@CodeDB said:
When y'all are arguing over this proposed mechanic, how are you envisioning it working?
Because right now, if a killer abandons a match, the match ends right there and that would be my issue with the killer having the option to leave as soon as the gates are powered/opened/whatever.
There are countless reasons for a survivor to want to play out the end game. There are specific achievements, rift challenges, and even just bloodpoint incentives for specific actions during end game. Add on the fact that the game is designed for survivors to only even see the gates powered in about 40% of their matches, it would make things even more frustrating.
If the survivors all abandon right now, there are still bots and the match can continue as mostly normal. The killer can still get their daily ritual mori, hook in basement, etc challenge done in that scenario. Until we have bot killers (or allowing an endgame with just no killer), I don't think this would be a good option.I always think this is a good idea, but the abandon for this case should only be available once all remaining survivors are in an open gate for ~20 seconds. That will let console survivors have some time to celebrate at the gate briefly since they don't usually have access to post-game chat. And in that case, the match is genuinely over, and if the killer still wants to go for a grab at the gate, they're free to try it.
I generally don't see much bm, but teabagging at the gates is a very common killer complaint, and I can imagine it's very irritating. The killer experience might be more positive that way and lead to a little less toxicity in the community :D
-
@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927597#Comment_3927597
always looked like a conglomerate of ocean pollution to me. You’re talking about dredge right?
Yeah! I call it 'lobster dredge', but I think the thing sticking out the front looks more like a crab. Not necessarily a sea creature, but maybe the closest thing we have to it.
-
There is a killer who is a lobster... or crab... or something... 🦞
-
@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926566#Comment_3926566
I consider anyone under 5k hours to be new, to be fair. I no lifed this game from 2016 all the way until OW2 came out, and I still play regularly. I have about 11.5k hours now.
I know that good teams are astronomically rare because I actively play inefficiently on killer and mess around, just to easily win anyways. My Nurse build is Awakened Awareness, Agitation, Fire Up, and Forever Entwined. Yet I'm easily killing everyone (and I don't tunnel or camp either, I always go for 12 hook games) before even two gens are done. I don't even bother using my brain on killer as a role anymore because I already know I'm going to be able to win without trying. I can count on one hand the number of times I've faced a good team in the past month. Just because people are stacking doesn't mean they're actually good at the game. Hell, most stacks are even easier to win against than solos because they do stupidly aggressive things to either try to bully you or save their friend.
Anyways, what I mean about Kaneki only getting one hit with his power is that he can never down you with it. He might get the first hit for free, but for the second he has to play like an M1 killer that MAY be able to play specific loops in very specific ways to down faster. If you're struggling against Kaneki, it has nothing to do with how good he is. At the end of the day, beating him is the same as looping an M1 killer with No Mither.
Well that explains it :)
There's a streamer I watch sometimes who probably has a fairly similar level of skill to you. He mains Nurse and I've never seen him lose a match as that killer. I think a strong Nurse is almost unstoppable, though I have admittedly managed to confuse some of them at high-wall loops for extended periods before.
I think BHVR will never publish MMR for individual players because they don't want some people's opinions to get shut down just because they have less experience than others. But I think there's something to be gained by understanding the skill distribution of players, I guess reflected approximately by the distribution of MMRs. My sense is that there's probably some central mode and distribution of players around a particular skill level, though I guess it could be a bifocal distribution.
Either way, I think it's important to consider the experience of as many players as possible in balance discussions. For example, brand new players are unlikely to keep playing if they just get stomped on all the time, as survivor or as killer. And I think the same becomes true as MMR and/or experience increases; if the experience gets bad enough, people will eventually stop playing. I guess that's the toughest thing to handle with balance. Top players will play so differently compared to newer players that the balance issues are very different for different levels of play. But BHVR has to handle all MMRs at the same time :/
-
I haven't used premonition in a while, but I do occasionally get an urge to put it in a build. If you're in a position where you can prerun and feel you need to, you can often know the killer's coming before they have a chance to set up.
If you're up for it, swivel your camera back and forth between any directions you think the killer might approach from when you're on a gen.
As someone else mentioned, it's a giant nerf against stealth killers or abilities that make you oblivious to the terror radius. It's also pretty strong when your teammates hook stage is about to run up. Premonition will tell you if a killer's nearby. Similar stuff with exit gates. Basically, it lets you take actions or make plans before you would normally have a way of being sure you need to.
I do find Bond to be vastly stronger though, since it lets me do stealth protection for my teammates, avoid gens getting worked, and even watch where the chase is and how it's going. But as someone else said, Premonition is actually stronger than people think. Imagine if you had an extra few seconds warning before dealing with the killer all the time.
-
@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926502#Comment_3926502
Everyone is at the soft cap but new players. The chances of you facing an actual good team are astronomically low no matter how good you are. So either he doesn't win enough to face good players at all, or he wins against bad players and just takes the occasional loss whenever he stumbles upon survivors that know what they're doing.
And I didn't know that Nurse could only injure people with her power 🤔 could've sworn I've been downing with it since 2016...
Maybe that depends on what we think of as a new player. It's likely not uncommon for people with <1000 hours to be below the soft cap. And that's an odd quirk of this game I guess, where it's acknowledged that it takes around 1000 hours to even get decent at the game.
I'm curious how we know that the odds of facing a good team are astronomically low? I know that I don't tunnel or camp, I give hatch often, and I often go in as killer with no addons. So I expect that I could increase my MMR by doing those things to varying extents. (I know that when I put on some strong addons, I do tend to perform better). But nevertheless, I do encounter 4-person swfs with strong items who appear to prerun before they should have a chance to know I'm coming, and areball decent loopers. I probably haven't ever faced Hens, but I don't think I'm seeing "bad" teams all the time.
Also, Nurse can definitely down with her power, but she has to do it twice. She only gets one hit from her power. But I think that's just a semantic misunderstanding we had :)
-
@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926212#Comment_3926212
"I win with her" because you face bad players consistently. That's more of a you thing than a Pig thing. If you can't fight a killer that can only get one hit with his power, you were never good at survivor to begin with
There are a number of killer main players around here whose preferred killers aren't Nurse, Blight, or Billy who will indicate that they face extremely strong survivors. I don't think we should assume that they're all facing bad survivor players just because they're not playing the best killers available.
Considering that most of us who regularly comment in this forum are likely above the MMR softcap, it's at the very least likely that many of us have been matched against very strong opponents occasionally, even if there is a fairly wide range of MMR pairings available.
The only question is how often each person faces such opponents and how often they win those matches. Sure, a Nurse or Blight or Spirit in the hands of someone with many hundreds or even some thousands of hours on that one killer will likely have an easier time than a Pig or Pinhead main, but that doesn't mean they aren't facing the same survivor players.
Also, even Nurse only gets one hit with her power ;)
-
@jjb985 said:
Just stop playing killer. Then when queue times are 30+ minutes maybe they will fix the core issues. I still have people hiding 40+ minutes every match refusing to give me 4k. When are they going to change crows, afking , locker hopping? They just don't care about killer at all.
Can I ask what your approach is to finding hiding survivors? I ask because I've seen a few forum members say this kind of thing, but I've never personally had survivors successfully hide for such a long time before.
The most effective way for them to hide is to get in lockers and occasionally get out to juggle their items or work on a chest so they don't get crows. But that means that as I search around rocks and in lockers, the survivors will eventually have to stop hiding when I search their location. They can also attempt to hide behind line of sight blockers and try to stay out of view as I make my way around objects, but then they're potentially visible and will often have to leave scratch marks to avoid the killer.
My experience is that if I take a thorough approach to searching areas, a pair of survivors shouldn't be able to hide for more than a handful of minutes. I don't know if they've gone 5 minutes or 10 minutes on me, but I'm pretty sure I've never had survivors successfully hide for 20 minutes or more.
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3926009#Comment_3926009
Id agree with this.
id throw in pig solely to actually give her m2 a bit more of a hit. Only slightly buff it, just slightly, as they didnt do enough last time. Grease is basically required in your matches if you want that thing to hit anyone.
I would've said Sadako as well, but I think their map design philosophy and changes have all but eliminated that idea.I honestly don't feel like Workshop Grease does much for Pig because I use Ambush primarily as a mindgame at certain loops. It can land hits against less experienced survivors, or against people who try to mindgame once I've taken a pallet.
But I find that it's very effective at forcing experienced survivors out of weak loops. That lets me frequently get a hit if the survivor abandons the loop when I crouch and fake roar (since they often won't have time to get to their next resource). If they don't abandon on the first go, we get a match of rock-paper-scissors, giving me an okay chance of hitting with it. Some loops also aren't conducive to Ambush, but I often play those like an m1 killer with no antiloop at all, trying to force a survivor into a loop where I can push them into an easier hit.
I guess I do agree that at certain loops, a survivor who picks ideal positioning can avoid it in situations where it feels like it should hit. I'd agree that a very slight buff to the Ambush duration would probably be healthy :D
-
@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925945#Comment_3925945
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925948#Comment_3925948
- Weskers behaves exactly the same way. Cd is longer than the m1 after
- Why would you go into the exit gates with victor on your head? This would be like going in there with pigs activated trap.
- Pinhead sadly cannot do this.
So no none of these are similar/even do that
Id have to test houndmaster though as I have never seen it happen, im guessing it behaves just like wesker though.
The reason the border at the end shows up for wesker is so he has something to slam you on and not bug out, probably the same story for the dog.For Wesker that depends on the survivor'shealth state. Wesker can pull a bound on an injured survivor who's trying to buy time for their team. The exit is blocked on a successful bound, and he'll automatically pick up the injured survivor. So for him, it depends on the health state of the survivor.
-
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925040#Comment_3925040
I do still stand by the idea than any abandon should result in a loss, regardlesss of wich role uses it. When it comes to giving the option of allowing killers to abanond after the doors are open, that could cut a game rather short. If someone is on a hook, and someone on the team opens the gate, then does that mean the killer would abandon and the person on hook would automatically die? I don't feel this is balanced.
I wouldn't be opposed to the EGC decreasing with every survivor within the exit gate, however. If two are there, it collapses twice as fast, three - three times as fast, and four - four times as fast.I like that idea about egc closing faster once all the survivors are in the gate. I've also suggested that once all remaining survivors are in an unblocked gate, the killer could get an abandon option after ~20 seconds. That would let console survivors celebrate with each other since they generally can't have post-game chat, and one of the most common complaints from the killer side (dealing with teabagging at the gate) gets addressed. What you suggested sounds like it would also work :)
-
@Nomade said:
People are playing ghoul because he is accessible, powerful and fun. I get that it can be stale agoing against the same killer over and over again but saying that releasing a fun, powerful and acessable killer based on a popular IP somehow made the game worse is lunacy.
I think that depends on what we mean by accessible. A killer shouldn't be released in a state like Kaneki was. He was easy enough to use and strong enough that it took practically no time for players using him to make the gameplay feel pointless for survivors going against him.
My feeling is that the gameplay upon release should present challenges for both the killer and survivors they're going against. The killer player should have to be learning how to use the killer, and survivors should need to learn counterplay to it.
If one side of the match is just dominating every game, something is wrong with the design. And if that scenario becomes so common that it's most of what people are encountering, I would say that likely does have a negative impact on the game's health. Ultimately, release should feel at least somewhat balanced. Kaneki didn't feel that way at all, which is why he got so much backlash.
I do agree though, that the killer power shouldn't be so awkward that it can't even be used, so BHVR has to be trying for a balanced experience upon release. As you mentioned, it has to be accessible, just not trivial.
-
I feel like that specific milestone is one of the most poorly thought out. All my other ones are much more progressed than that one. My escape rate usually has me escaping between one in five and one in two games, depending on the day.
I don't know what my average escape rate actually is for the last week, but if we assume I need on average 2.5 matches to escape, that means I need to play about 8 survivor matches just to get the escape three matches milestone. If I recall correctly, the third one is to escape six times? (I could be wrong as I'm not able to go check at the moment.) So that would mean that for the third milestone of that category, I need to play 6×2.5=15 survivor matches.
I'll need to look up how many escapes the increasing milestone progress requires, but if it's scaling nonlinearly, it could be kind of hard to get.
I worry that this specific milestone might encourage greedy playstyles. I know I tend to always go for last minute saves if there's even a slice of hope to get it. I've definitely gladly done endgame trades. If this were a tome challenge like "escape six trials", that would seem reasonable, but I'm a bit worried about how this will scale up for each milestone level. Who knows though? I could be wrong and it could be reasonable.
-
It would make no sense to release the FNaF chapter with an overtuned killer who then gets nerfed. I know you said to just make it an OP killer and not nerf it, but most people do not want to see another Kaneki released into the game, and especially not when that killer doesn't get nerfed. However, something requiring a little more skill, a la Dracula, might not be so bad.
Also, people coming to BDB for the FNaF chapter will be new players. You could play an m1 killer with no power and stomp as a <100 hour player on killer. Killer only gets challenging when survivors outpace your own skill level. But some brand new survivors barely know that running to a pallet helps them. Ultimately, players brought in by the FNaF chapter do not need a Blight-level mess to enjoy the game as killer. For a while, they'll be able to just down survivors because they have a left mouse button.
-
@Callahan9116 said:
There are a few killers who can sort of be anywhere at once yes.
did you get that game recorded? Would be really funny to watch.
there are so many strategies like basement bubba that are useless against good players and noob stompers. They have issues with balancing that.
Sadly no recording of it. Bubba chased me for hatch race in the end though because I wasn't about to run into the basement after everyone else did. I even finished a gen first... And in the post-game chat, Bubba and I mused about why on Earth all my teammates ran into the basement when he was clearly going to go instadown them.
I didn't check, but I suspect he camped from a distance to prevent self-unhooks. So I guess he wasn't strictly a basement Bubba. I've hidden in the basement all game before with insidious and just guarded the chest… like a real basement dweller :D
Who knows though, maybe it was a party down there and I should have joined them. I mean, there are four hooks...
-
This makes me feel like MMR is managed by Jarvis, but while he's handling like 10^6 other tasks too.
-
@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/444771/aight-angy-rant-time
Its not like the rarities were even hard to understand. If anything they are more complicated now.
I get confused now when I see a green medkit.
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924479#Comment_3924479
BHVR should just fix bad perks instead of this.
People have different ideas of what constitutes a bad perk. As I said above, I love my meme build and the perks I run, but other survivors would probably dodge it because it's not meta. The reason for showing perks is to help survivors coordinate better. What survivors need are more hints that certain perks are in play. Knowing a teammate has Deliverance, knowing the person who got in a locker has Head On. Things like that would be useful to to know.
That's very reasonable. Probably a notification in-game would be useful to know what perks are active in certain situations, in the same way that we get icons for things like open-handed.
In terms of perks ro fix, I was thinking mainly of No Mither, but a small number of other perks might fit that category too. For example, I ran Red Herring for a short time when I was trying to craft a meme-esque locker build. My opinion is that Red-Herring also needs a slight buff to be useful.
But you're right, some people will just dodge a lobby if they see a perk they don't like, which is definitely subjective.
Honestly, I find Pebble and Bardic Inspiration to be unusually strong in the sense that sometimes they can turn killers friendly, and at a higher rate than giving items. Also, I kind of like Pebble in the same way that I like Deception. Perks that can be used to trick the opponent seem fun to me :)
BTW, did you ever try to run Bardic + Mirrored Illusion? I've been thinking of sticking both on and bringing a Halloween flashlight, then try to get the killer to look at the illusion as I project a ghost onto the wall in front of them. Then when they turn around, pop out a lute. I might try it later today :)
-
Yeah, this seems like a bad idea. As others have mentioned, this will likely lead to people shopping for and dodging lobbies. That will also lead to an issue with backfilling of lobbies, potentially with players of skill levels that don't match.
There will also be a byproduct that some fraction of players will feel forced to not explore perks they worry are too weak. I sometimes mix up my builds to try interesting things. I don't put on perks that are bad for my team (e.g. No Mither), but I think the ability to explore perks will decrease dramatically. BHVR should just fix bad perks instead of this.
-
@Callahan9116 said:
TuTunneling doesn't work against smart teams. You have a 70 second hook, if the killer is camping you have 3 gens done, then if he tunnels and you last in chase more than 30 seconds (very easy to do) it'll mean 2 more gens done by the time he hooks you.
90% of survivor problems are solved by just doing the gens.
This is accurate except when the killer just decides to return to the hook. A killer attempting to tunnel efficiently will not be explicitly camping. They'll pressure nearby gens, and even attempt to direct their chase toward the hook so they can keep proximity to be ready for the unhook. If the killer finds themself far from the hook, they won't necessarily try to tunnel, but if they're close enough, they'll run back to the unhook and go for a tunnel if the survivor gave them a short enough chase.
Some killers are especially problematic in that regard. There are a number of killers that can return to the hook so effectively that they can return to the hook and tunnel reliably from across the map. Tunneling becomes very hard to counter against a talented killer unless the target is a strong looper. It would be good, though, if more survivors would wait until the killer is very likely not going to just return to the hook before going for a save. No argument there :D
You're also right that not nearly enough survivor players play against camping effectively. Some outright camping killers will just get free pressure 15 seconds into a hook stage because someone goes for a trade early. While the answer to that is clear to a lot of us, it's mind-numbing when a solo-queue team gets snowballed by a camping killer.
I saw that a few days ago against an Insidious camping basement Bubba who brought an offering for basement placement. The match was over fast because one teammate got carried to the basement, another went in prematurely even though we all heard the chainsaw and saw the hook was in the basement. Two on hook, third goes in. I went for a pickup on one that got out of the basement and crawled enough distance to let me get them up. They got downed again fast... normal game when a killer's camping. Maybe we need a training module for that; a killer bot that downs a survivor bot, and where the module teaches people what to do about it.
-
It's important to remember that when something isn't broken, that means it's time to fix it... or something? I was never good at proverbs.
-
The same thing happened to my Pig. It's not just you. I imagine this is the result of their recent lighting consisteny update.
-
The updates feel streamlined in a way that's not characteristic of DBD. These 'quests' feel kind of 'clean' and lifeless. Like the millionth Marvel movie, but in a game meant to be creepy and filled with eldritch horrors. I think we should be looking for a feel that elicits a sense described by the words mysterious, eerie, haunting, and foreboding. Like exploring a familiar scene of an old house, or an empty street and realizing something is off, but that you can't quite put your finger on. The new colors and UI are veering into what would happen if DBD were made by a certain fruit-based computer company, and not brought to us by some unseen horror creeping beneath life's surface.
But my real complaint is about the daily quests. The more I think about this, the more it makes me feel like doing something other than DBD. I have no desire to feel compelled to play every day in order to avoid missing out. That seems tedious at best. I like the idea of being able to complete tasks at my own pace. The tomes are fantastic in that way, and I'm kind of already thinking it was a mistake to implement this new system in place of the old one. I guess we'll see how this plays out, but I'm feeling a bit repelled so far.
-
I used to live deep in the middle of nowhere, with the house surrounded by woods. Sometimes when you're alone at night in a place like that, 3am rolls around and you hear an animal outside, but your brain starts to think about all those games you play and movies you watch. Silence and solitude can be very mundane, but sometimes it made me grab something that could be a weapon while I put on something happy to watch so my brain would stop being paranoid and I could get to sleep :)
-
I won't mind getting chased by the walking TV from the new rift :D
-
Some of those are definitely valid points! My biggest concern is the implementation of 'daily quests' that are required to progress through the rift.
Rewards that can only be earned by logging on and playing every day usually seem to be designed to force people into an unhealthy relationship with the game in question. That's something that I could see leading to people permanently quitting a game in favor of something that feels less manipulative.
I'm definitely not saying that the intent of the update is to manipulate people, but I can imagine myself feeling a need to play the game every day even if I had other things I needed to do, leading to pointless stress. And if people being to associate DBD with a stressful feeling of needing to play, lest there be consequences of missing out, they may get jaded and pick other hobbies.
Anyway, this is mostly based on what the OP said here; I haven't gone through the numbers on the new system myself, so I don't know how crucial the daily 'quests' are to completing the rift yet.
One other note is that 'quest' seems like some rather unfitting terminology for DBD. Are we questing around the Entity's realm now? I think 'ritual' is thematically on-point though :)
-
@Lightningheart said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920612#Comment_3920612
Survivors can abandon the game when all of them are on the floor or hooked, and they get a draw for abandoning the game too. So, why not allow the killer to just abandon the game and take the loss.
I understand you saying that there are builds for later stages into the game, even when the gates are powered, perks still exist that can potentially sway the game back into the killers favour. These killers will simply not abandon the game and play the game as normal. There are equally builds that exist for when a survivor is slugged and a perk that allows a survivor to unhook themselves. Yet, other survivors can still abandon which will ruin the game for the survivors running these builds. So, I struggle to see the relevancy of this point.
I agree that the killer should have an abandon option once the gates are powered and all remaining survivors are in an unblocked gate. I think there should be a 20 second delay for that so the survivors can celebrate together in the gate since console players don't have post-game chat.
Snowballing does happen in the endgame though. I've turned 1k games into a 2k or 3k in the endgame before, depending on the survivors' skill for endgame rescues. I'd wait to let the remainder of the endgame play out until the survivors are in an open gate since the killer can still pull a sacrifice or two in the endgame, and all players can reasonably have a chance to do something.
This would let the killer not have to put up with excessive waiting at the endgame, and could get rid of most of the problem of bm by some survivor players at the exit :D
-
Agreed. This is becoming a somewhat commonly requested update. And I have no idea why some people object to this. At least, I have no idea what a 'reasonable' objection would be.
The whole abandon system will need tweaks (e.g. the under-the-hood MMR results probably need some nuanced updates), and a killer abandon at endgame should probably be delayed by maybe 20 seconds upon the last survivor entering an open unblocked gate. That would give console survivors the chance to celebrate and do dances and stuff together since they can't usually use post-game chat.
But definitely supported from my side!
-
@UndeddJester said:
Even if the train can't be stopped, if nothing else a "classic colours" option would be nice... 😒
This is a great idea because it mostly solves the problem of tutorials and videos referencing the wrong colors :)
-
@brewingtea said:
If the exit gates are opened, and the killer "Abandons" the game, it should just count as if everyone remaining escaped. Yes, you could just go chase them out, but I think this would be a fine QOL addition.
Agreed. There's no reason not to implement this. I don't care about it, but teabagging at the gate is one of the most common killer complaints. If at least one gate is open and all remaining survivors are in an unblocked gate, the killer should get an abandon option after maybe 20 seconds (so console survivors can celebrate together if they want since they don't have post-game chat).
That update would have essentially no negative impact, and would probably improve community morale overall. And the coding for it should be pretty easy.
-
I would support a Xzar and Montaron twins skin.
-
This debate seems weird. I think the abandon feature is good for the community. The abandon feature for survivors can only be activated when the survivors have essentially 'lost' the game and would otherwise have to do nothing but sit and wait for a while (or maybe also when everyone else is a bot, I can't remember). Currently, the killer can only do it when a generator hasn't been completed for ten minutes. I think that condition should be tweaked a bit, but is overall decent.
Making it possible to exit from annoying game states when the game is essentially over is a good thing as long as it doesn't take away from someone's ability to benefit from their perks or gameplay. And for the killer this is true: the killer can still finish the game against the bots if they want the bp for it. I actually did this yesterday when I downed the last survivor with one already out and two on-hook. Everyone immediately abandoned, so I hooked my bot instead of giving hatch to someone. No big deal :D
I do think it would be totally fair for a killer to be able to abandon if all survivors are in an unblocked, open exit gate. Then any person playing killer who doesn't want to deal with people teabagging would be free to just concede the match. I'd suggest waiting 15 or 20 seconds to let the survivors celebrate with each other since console players don't always have access to post-game chat, but this otherwise shouldn't impact anyone in a negative way. I actually would still go to the gate to goof off with the survivors :)
I think the MMR gain/loss that goes on behind the scenes is in need of tweaking though, so that the MMR shift reflects who actually did well in the match. But otherwise, the system seems quite useful for alleviating annoying match states. I'd suggest adding that killer abandon mentioned above and tweaking things like the MMR results, but I'm a fan of this overall :)
-
@SeriousRain said:
Like... Why did they not change them. Just today I faced two killers with free mori addons... Oh wow so fun to play 3v5 at 4-5 gens and have 0 hooks, so cool and balanced guys.
Against a Meyers who reaches his maximum stalk level, you want to assume they can insta-mori you. The counterplay at that point is to try to predict when you can't loop anymore and hop in a locker. Meyers can't insta-mori you when he has to pick you up, so he'll be forced to either drop you and leave you slugged, or carry you to a hook. In those cases, you might need to just flat-out avoid some places in favor of locations where you'll find a locker. And if you're the last survivor left and that happens, well… not much can be done.
I get it though, it feels cheap when you get moried from a healthy state with 0 hooks. But Meyers isn't great at chase. His stalk and having insta-downs and even insta-mories is the trade for that. I think that particular addon can be wildly oppressive for players whose MMR isn't as high as some, because in this case it's absolutely critical to know the counterplay and be prepared to do it, and because even somewhat advanced survivor players usually aren't going to pull a 3 gen chase.
As @Blueberry said, and I imagine you know already, you need to avoid letting him get line of sight in the early game. Meyers builds slowly, getting his stalk built up by watching you in that creepy Michael Meyers way, then becomes a major threat for a time when he hits his maximum stalk. The team has to counter that by pounding out gens as fast as possible in the early game, and avoiding three genning while also running, hiding, and breaking his line of sight whenever possible.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
Anti slugging should be fixing slugging issues on BOTH SIDES of the game. It’s frustrating for the killer when they feel like they are forced to slug over and over.
It’s a terrible double standard to say slugging is a problem when it’s the killer’s decision, but it’s 100% good if it’s the survivors decision.
This is actually true. Whole team slugging as a killer playstyle is annoying, and I agree with trying to nerf it, especially with the way Knockout was being used.
But a strong bully squad will force the killer to turn the match into a slug-fest. Those games go like: (i) down someone on your first chase, (ii) find someone around a nearby rock (iii) injure them and chase them away, (iv) find someone trying to heal the slug, so injure them and chase them away, (v) the previous injured survivor came back and picked up the original slug while you chased away the third person, (vi) down one of those two and chase the other away, (vii) finally look around for survivors, find the area is clear, pick up and head toward a hook, only to see it being saboed.
There is little counterplay to these teams except to slug people over and over. It tends to be the case that they don't ever get the gates powered because all those attempts to deny the killer any hooks at all will give them no time to do gens. But even when I 4k a squad like this, I wish I had a different match. It's perhaps more annoying than being a survivor going against a slugging build with pre-change Knockout.
Anyway, this is a long response. You are right about this :D
-
Honestly, I came here thinking this was going to be some weird complaint about the system being unfair to one side. But this appears to be well thought out to such an extent that I want to read all of it in detail before giving an upvote or providing any thoughts. We need more of that here :D
But for now I have to go practice my German or a creepy owl is going to emotionally blackmail me to learn languages. So I'll read this later, and for now leave these thoughts:
- What if a swf all brought No Mither and Plot Twist and immediately abandoned, giving the killer 4 bots in the first few seconds? I ask this mostly because it makes me laugh :)
- I would like to recommend the following new killers to the roster: (i) Duo, The Owl, and (ii) the alien from The Fourth Kind (The It's Not an Owl).
-
I only abandon to skip being slugged or skip the mori. And MMR change isn't a win or loss in my mind, so as both survivor and killer, I don't take any of that into account. Instead, I just use it to skip things I find annoying.
Besides, just because someone's MMR goes up or down doesn't mean they won the game. If I had the lower score at the end of a game of basketball than my opponent, but I advanced to the next round of a tournament through some quirk, that doesn't mean I won the game (unless my opponent got disqualified for cheating or something).
-
I think it would be fine if, once all survivors are in an unblocked, open gate, the killer can abandon after maybe 15 or 20 seconds. That gives console survivors time when they can celebrate with eachother since they don't have access to post-game chat, and only occurs in a condition where the game is decidedly done.
This also leaves certain killers the ability to steal a final sacrifice from someone (e.g. if they're crazy enough to hang around the gate against a Wesker on the loose).
And, sure, survivors could then stay outside the gate to prevent this, but that would give a lot of killers a chance at a last kill if they wanted to go for it. And since teabagging at the gate is one of most common killer complaints, this would probably be pretty beneficial for community morale :D
-
It should make no difference to a person whether they mori a person or a bot. The only reason why someone would care that they perform their mori on a person is that they want to force that person to watch them do it. And that's... "not great"… In the best case scenario, that would be considered unsportsmanlike, much like when a survivor teabags at the gate.
The 'win/loss' outcome for abandoning might need some tweaking though. If all survivors are hooked except one and the last survivor DCs upon being downed, that reasonably should lead to a killer getting the same MMR increase as with a 4k. However, it's debatable whether the same could be said of a slug for 4k situation. I guess some nuance should be introduced to the way MMR works for the system behind the scenes.
But I think something strange is going on if people are complaining about not being able to force other players to watch their mori.
-
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920690#Comment_3920690
That might explain a lot actually lol. For me, 0k and 1k never happens, 2k is very rare. most of my matches I'm getting 3k or 4k. If I'm against solo players I'm getting 2 kills by the time survivors have done 2 or gens which often results in either the other 2 throwing themselves at me or it goes the other way and they hide for as long as possible. If it's against swf it's a lot closer match with almost all gens being completed before I get the 4k. But few months ago I had 50+ win streak of no less than 3k. It's rare I give hatch I'm not a nice killer and people are very vocal about that but I play to win. That's with tomstone Myers tho, scratch mirror I'm lucky to get 2k because of the swf on coms that negate my stealth.
Maybe if I gave hatch more and took a few loses then I wouldn't be matched with these people, but I have fun going for the win and have fun thinking outside the box to counter controversial behaviours like hiding for up to an hour.
Yeah, agreed. I feel like a lot of people are always optimizing every aspect of their approach when they play killer. And I do run into another problem as well:
Presumably because of the MMR range allowed in matches, I sometimes find myself feeling bad for my survivors if they've had a rough time and I have 2k already with 4 or 5 gens left. So a very non-trivial amount of my 2k matches are me just having mercy because I don't feel like there's any sport in taking down defenseless survivors who's whole team was clearly out of its depth.
But I generally refuse to take less than a 2k because I don't want my MMR to drop (I don't want constant ridiculous mismatches). I still get matches against what I think are very strong teams, but not at the rate I think you and others do.
Actually, a team did give me a 0k on Eyrie during the Blood Moon. That's insanely rare, but I legitimately miscounted hooks and left a survivor's hook who had a Pig hat on when egc started. I thought she was on her third hook... There were like 6 or 7 hooks across the team, and I went off for another chase instead of taking my guaranteed 1k, thinking I was off hunting for a 2k :)
-
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920574#Comment_3920574
I am curious what your matches are like as killer? What's your usual match like? 3k? 4k at 5 gens? 3k with 1 gen remaining? The reason I ask is because you seem to have vastly different matches than me and many other killers lol.
I wonder about that sometimes too :)
Really depends. I get a mix of matches, usually depending on things like (i) duration of the first chase, (ii) looping skill of the whole team, (iii) whether the map is laid out in my favor, (iv) what build I'm running, and (v) presumably whether the team is a swf on comms doing callouts of my position.
Obviously it's usually impossible to confirm that last one, but there are matches when I'm playing Pig, take a strange path, stealth in advance, and still find that every survivor is abandoning their gen long before I get there... so sometimes I have suspicions about which teams are talking to each other.
If my first chase is strong, it's a lot easier to build pressure. I've found that easiest with Pig and Billy, (though I admittedly only play a handful of killers so I can realistically be decent with them). Pig should be landing free hits by approaching gens without line of sight if possible. That makes her into essentially a one-hit down killer with a decent ability to force survivors out of loops. With Billy, I really enjoy running Lethal and trying for a down five seconds into the match on survivors who don't run somewhere safe... instapressure :)
But yeah, if the first chase doesn't go my way, then I expect to have a tough match, and even to need to snowball later. I'd say my typical match is 2k or 3k, with a bit more of them being 3k. Not sure if it makes a difference, but I practically always give hatch to the last survivor if the team didn't annoy me, so my MMR might take a hit, giving me easier matches. I also do not tunnel until egc is about to pop, so a team that has me just has the match. I could definitely just swing my approach once I feel like I'm having a bad match and get more 'wins', which would probably put me against better survivors. But I'd rather not do that; it feels cheap :( So all that could be keeping me out of the MMR levels where I'll be seeing super strong squads more often than I do. My feeling is that if it's necessary to tunnel against the strongest teams, that's a balance problem that BHVR needs to fix.
I also play mostly without add-ons, which might also lead to me getting 2k or 1k against teams that are stronger, potentially also preferentially leading me to an MMR that's not as high as I could be in. But I like doing that because I imagine it makes me rely more on only the killer's power.
In the end though, I get a mix of results, with I think 2k and 3k being the most common. And I give hatch a lot, so 4k is a lot less common than it should be. 1k happens sometimes, but 0k is pretty rare. I'm pretty ass at Nemi though, so people do give me some 0ks when I get in an RE mood ;)
-
@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920574#Comment_3920574
it's 10 minutes from when a generator was completed so survivors touching a gen but not popping it counts towards the 10 min so if survivors just attempt a gen get hit and run away to heal for 10 if you hit abandoned that's a loss for the killer
Yes. That is how the mechanic works.
That doesn't change that survivors can't really hide for extended periods without the killer finding them. I have had scenarios where I had to run around opening lockers for 3-5 minutes before once it was clear that gens weren't going to get worked on. Presumably the survivors were doing some extremely minor actions to not get crows, which I don't mind. I kind of enjoy the relaxed hunt in those rare scenarios where two survivors are hiding it out for hatch. But much more often, I find that one or both of them will still work on objectives.
Really though, this mechanic would be hard to abuse. The need to successfully hide from the killer for long enough for the killer to want to give up seems pretty extreme. And if I did want to just give up in that scenario, I think it's good to have that option.
I think the only real case where this could be abused substantially is with bully squads. They could just not do any gens and spend the entire time trying to frustrate the killer by denying them hooks. And if that lasts long enough, the killer could just choose to go next. Personally, I think it's good to give the killer that option. Bit we don't want to encourage bully squads though, so that's something to think about :D
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3920317#Comment_3920317
It actually was on Greenville Square. o_0
It feels like it was a while ago, though. And I can't remember if David did it from the start of the match or not. I definitely got him up on his feet once, and he put himself back on the ground. It was especially weird since I was friendly and gens were being done; I don't remember how many gens were done when he bled out, but I think it was mid-match nearing the end of the match. I stood around watching the other survivors work on a gen and occasionally pause to attempt to pick him up, which he wouldn't allow.
lol It's not impossible that we were in that match together. I think when I encountered that, it was either around the beginning of or within maybe a month prior to the Blood Moon event.
Admittedly, I don't remember much about that match anymore (whether the rest of us survived, or who the killer was). All I remember was the map and that a survivor who I think was either David or Ace did that. Either way, I wonder if maybe they were trying to do some silly memes with Plot Twist + Power Struggle. I didn't check perks after the match :/