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smurf
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909090#Comment_3909090
The generousity of his hitbox looks more like it is intended for people who play DBD with a steering wheel or a dance pad.
Maybe Ghoul is just the first step toward Dance by Daylight?
Actually, at first I thought The Ghoul wasn't SO bad, but then people got a little more intuition for playing that killer. Ghoul matches sure are… er... "something". People are likely to very much hate this killer if it stays as-is.
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@copperysinger5 said:
After the losing team quits the entire match you say the killer…
“ need to stay in the game and spend the time to earn more.”
this is absolutely the most inconsiderate oblivious statement. Survivors got rewarded and didn’t have to stay, but the ’winning’ killer should stay with AI BOTS? You should be ashamed of yourself for trolling this much.lol, I mean, I'm pretty sure you're actually trolling here. But in case you're not, I've been trying to answer like you're serious.
But no, the survivors are rewarded for the duration that they stayed in the match. Killer gets the same. Killer wants more bp, they can stay and finish the bots off. Nothing is stopping the killer from doing that.
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@copperysinger5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910001#Comment_3910001
‘You concede, I win game over’ but that is not how it plays out. DBD perception of conceding the game is flawed. If you concede then your opponent must take all the winnings and you get none. DBD rewards the conceding survivors and then punishes the winning killer by forcing to continue to play with AI BOT in order to finish the match; while the survivor could already be in queue for the next match.
I think it would be reasonable for the killer to be able to abandon the match of they want once all survivors are bots. But just like with survivors, if the killer wants more bp, they should need to stay in the game and spend the time to earn more.
I also wouldn't say that the 'losing side' in DbD should get nothing. Both sides, killer and survivor, always get blood points for the match, even if they lose. I think that should remain the case for conceding the match.
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@copperysinger5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909787#Comment_3909787
with this "abandon game" update; a disadvantaged survivor is given opportunity as s sore loser to mercy quit. why a disadvantaged killer not allowed the same privilege?
It is not considered a disadvantage when the killer outsmarted the entire team of survivors in a fair game. No matter how 'unfun' it was for the losing survivors the victorious killer should be rewarded; yes? but instead the game forces the killer to be stuck with AI Bots in a multiplayer game. Sour sore loser opponents ejecting before the game is finished is cowardly; and why would you expect 'mercy' if you decided to play a horror game?!. I would understand 'mercy' if the game was rated for kids under 12 years of age but it's not.
The concept of conceding at a game is broadly understood across many games and has been for decades, if not centuries. The type of game doesn't matter in any way. It could be a horror game, an asymmetric game, a basketball game, a card game, a drinking game, or even a guessing game. Conceding is not 'being a sore loser', it is the person losing acknowledging that their opponent has won and the winner not forcing the opponent to continue participating in what will be in some instances simply a matter of humiliation.
Likewise, accepting a concession is a matter of being a good sport. Once the match is clearly done in any game where an opponent has conceded, it is disrespectful to force the opponent to keep participating except during games played for the entertainment of third parties (i.e. professional gaming). We are not professionals at this game, we owe each other the respect of not forcing each other to participate in a loss for longer than is needed. That's why people don't like slugging or having to force survivors out at gates; those situations force the losing player(s) to be in a match they clearly can no longer win, when there is no purpose to remain in the game.
There's no reason to take issue with the fact that people have conceded a game to you. It is not cowardly, it's not being a 'sore loser', it's just someone acknowledging that you have won the game (or in some cases that it's a stalemate) and them wanting to acknowledge that the game is done.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909133#Comment_3909133
nah i quoted you by accident i meant to quote op but sure i'll respond there isn't any real reason to feel bad to slug for the 4k since survivors won't give a free hook when you have 0k but a bunch of hooks while they t-bag you at the exit gate
i do agree it doesn't feel good to the survivor when they're slugged for the 4k but it sort of goes out the window since the reverse sucks for killer
Oddly enough, if you act all goofy with the survivors, they'll sometimes give you hooks. But I think the game's asymmetric nature can cause some people to see a difference between a survivor giving the killer a kill vs the killer letting a survivor go. The killer cannot be killed in the game, but survivors can. Although those things can be viewed as 'wins' and 'losses' on each side, the nature of their depiction tends to be viewed somewhat differently by some players (not all, but some) myself included.
As killer, I have no problem letting some survivors go, but as survivor most of the time I'd like to survive if possible. Having said that, I've definitely offered hooks to some killers before, but only if I liked something they did or the way they played the match.
As far as the teabagging at gates, I stopped seeing much of that a while ago. Now maybe I'll see a survivor occasionally teabag at a gate, but most of the time, they just take off or even meme with me a bit. But to be fair, if I know I have survivors at the gate who I can't get, I'll sometimes moonwalk back and forth across the gate entrance, do spins, and otherwise just do stuff to acknowledge the game is done. I think that sometimes turns them playful :)
Inn the end though, I think neither side should be doing things to the other side that are rude. As killer, my biggest annoyance is when I encounter a coordinated bully squad. I do better in those games on average than if they just played the game like normal, but it's so tedious to do those matches that they're not even rewarding :/
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@copperysinger5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909735#Comment_3909735
how are survivors disadvantaged? and why shouldn't there be a thrill in winning against human opponents? If you want to surrender then the game should end giving the killer maximum rewards; but it punishes the killer with AI bots.
The new system allowing people to abandon a match is only available in scenarios where those players tend to be heavily disadvantaged or where the game is in what most players consider a somewhat annoying state. When survivors are able to surrender, they're either all slugged or on hook, or all the teammates are bots. Those all tend to be massively unfavorable for the survivors and the case of everyone being slugged was commonly abused by some players in the past to agitate survivor players, forcing them to waste time bleeding out.
There can certainly be a thrill in a good match with human opponents. But there are even certain competitive sports that have so called 'mercy rules' which allow a team that's losing badly enough to simply concede the match. Outside of gaming leagues, my experience is that a lot of games have at least an informal way for a team or side to give up. There's no thrill in defeating an opponent who can't possibly win though. That would be like an adult getting excited about winning at basketball against a small child.
When survivors ate able to give up, the killer is also still able to finish putting the bots on hooks, or to mori them, allowing the killer to obtain their bp for the match.
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@copperysinger5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909138#Comment_3909138
A killer you are not winning the game against human opponents which takes the competitive spirit out of the game. not many will be thrilled in beating AI Bot opponents in multiplayer games. BTW; I think you know this update is unfair. it is too obvious; knowing that survivors can abandon the game with no penalty from annoying killers but killers cant do the same. Yet you try to justify every survivor's motive for their toxic teabagging.
But the killer has clearly won against human opponents in a case where the survivors have chosen to give up. There should be no thrill in besting opponents who are in a very disadvantaged position. Clasically, people woud say there's no sport in it. So once survivors are in a position where they can use the new abandon match feature, there's really no sport in finishing it, no thrill left to be had.
I play killer a lot, and I very often give hatch for the last survivor because they generally can't possibly win with just one left. Where's the fun in it for me to just drive up my score against a helpless opponent? If the last survivor has a chance to open the gate, I usually go for the down and then consider letting them wiggle out. Sometimes, I still do the 4k, but I refuse to slug for 4k, and I never mori since I see both those things as bm. The update just alleviates what I view as some of the most problematic things in the game, not as something that's unfair in any way.
Also, please note that I did not even kind of try to justify teabagging or any kind of bm. BM has no place in games or in most areas of life. My opinion is that attempts to remove bm from the game are good.
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The Ghoul doesn't really have an anti bm mechanism though. The Ghoul has an anti-be at the gate mechanism. But there are valid reasons for a survivor to be at the gate and not leave. They're often waiting to have the killer force them out in order to waste time so their teammates can do work on the other hate or heal, or they're often waiting to see if they should go for a save or take some protection hits.
An anti-bm mechanism would likely be more related to blocking the gate if the survivor crouched repeatedly.
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You're only saying this because both you and Indy both have Ph.D.s ;)
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That's not a bad idea. Each player's realm history can contain a parameter for each realm which makes it more or less likely to get a realm depending on whether you've personally been in that realm recently. Said parameter can then be applied to a lobby-wide probability for each realm.
Presumably, the realm is selected by assigning each realm a total probability score based on the whole lobby's combined recent map modifiers, and then each realm's score is normalized. At that point an rng is used to select the realm, then the map is selected next.
Do they not do that already though?
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@copperysinger5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909010#Comment_3909010
When exit gates unlock, losing killers should be allowed to abandon: Winning survivors teabag and linger at exit gate to shame the killer with no option for killer to leave without penalty. but you think it should be be okay for survivors to leave the winning killer with bots?? The level of unfairness is blatantly clear
Why is it a problem if the killer is left with bots? I play killer all the time and that doesn't bother me in any way. If I'm winning at a game, my opponents are free to give up. That's part of playing games. The only thing that we have to be careful about is that the game remains enjoyable for the participants. One player giving up shouldn't make it impossible for another player to win, which is the case with survivors. I think it would be fine if the killer were able to dc during egc and be replaced by a killer bot.
Also, most survivors who stay at the gate aren't trying to bm the killer. I stay to assess whether I need to run back in for a save. And when the survivors manage to open a gate, I find it's very rare that they teabag. If I chase someone out of the gate, it's a very small minority of the time that they attempt to taunt me as they leave.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905957#Comment_3905957
unbreakable and unbreakable boon exist
That doesn't even kind of address anything I said. If you want to respond to a comment I make, please don't just state random irrelevant talking points people make about things on the forums. I'm happy to have a constructive discussion, but not to just say slogans at each other. If you think your comment contains something relevant to what I said, please explain how you think it's relevant.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906253#Comment_3906253
ah it wasn’t me. I hardly ever see pig, but when I do I usually break their ankles for a bit(that’s not a brag, I’m just saying the character pig is not hard to loop).It’s how I know that lunge turning radius needs to be more flexible to give them some tighter turns.
Idk who’s training these pig mains-jk yes I do- shout out to that legend Tokki! You’re doing a really good job because on my end I can see where your weakest point in chase is, it’s the power turning radius of the lunge or speed from release, it’s not flexible or fast enough for tighter turns to get good survivors /close distance from the audio cue we get.
I feel like they’re almost never going to be able to catch good survivors with that dash turning radius and release speed of the dash. Pig is already a slower stealth killer, no need for the dash to be that weak. The audio cue the moment you hear it, you have time to usually make it to another loop when they’re trying to use their power. They’ll never catch up. Idk it “feels like” there’s too much time between the cue and where you can make it- most of the time-and how close in you can turn seems wide enough but not narrow enough.So it probably needs to be allowed to also be tighter or faster when they use their power. Add-ons or base kit I would say from my perspective, pig is nowhere near op, but something should be done here.
How do you feel using her power against good survivors? -sorry I know it’s getting off topic, just chatting with a friend- Because on my end that’s what it feels like is the problem with pig. Maybe it’s because I’ve gone against this killer so much over the years that she was getting straight bullied when I survived with friends to the point the traps were a joke and way too forgiving when you’re paying attention, and she has to work so hard to catch you in chase.
When I solo or duo she’s not doing so hot against good survivors, and I wouldn’t say that’s a skill issue on the killer end because it’s such a common theme. I’m not saying I’m the best looper in the world(I’m absolutely not, I’m mid), this killer can be ran without exhaustion though, and survivors almost always have exhaustion.I’m saying it’s that easy when you guys are trying to play serious and not memeing around with people, or taking half chases from unhooks. Honestly I’m surprised pigs don’t really tunnel more because if there’s one killer that has a reason to because of power weakness it’s her. Even when she tries to tunnel against good survivors it’s weak. On my end, I miss the buff they gave ya’ll when some random killer wasn’t being a box troll because it felt a lot more fair, because in my eyes you needed it. You really did. Otherwise you’re stuck at the bottom with no real chances. Makes me sad tbh.
Anyways-circling back-, that’s sweet of you and I’m sure they appreciate that when you’re doing those kinds of things because being an average/new survivor rn is rough-gestures at the outcries-, slope really slopes, at a certain point you have to switch to defense and offense mentality as survivor though. People need to learn that because the higher you go the less forgiving everything gets on both sides, you gotta know your stuff.
There’s a time and place for everything if you want to get out those gates. It’s war up there, and you have to be able to switch up your game or there’s no shot. Not a single chance. Every time you go down and things turn south, you have to ask yourself, what could I have done better to improve this situation?Might as well give killers a foam bat if everyone gets nerfed to that level of play, because the killer role will be a joke to go against at my level of play. The amount of people I saw not practicing their army crawls coming through, or trying to heal under hook when the higher you go they come back, it was very concerning, and straight up don’t understand how to counter killer powers, or punish tunneling/camping. I’m keeping myself at a bubble rn too and I’m seeing it depending on which way the bubble goes. I’m dying for the team mistakes to keep me there. -sometimes I make mistakes too, I’m not perfect- I’m dying for big ones though on their behalf, for personal research purposes, and to also make sure they’re having a better time, and hopefully they pick up a skill from being on a team with me.
When I get matched with people holding their own though and making good calls, it’s eye opening. Very eye opening at the difference in team performance-on the team side-. Are you seeing it too, or are they truly trying their best against you with some minor mistakes? They don’t have to be loop gods, but they should know the basics before any slight against pig happens. Honestly she needs some buffs to compete at higher levels. In the mean time, if they’re being really annoying on purpose beat em up, because honestly what are a lot of them doing it’s game costing at higher levels above where they are, and they shouldn’t get gates for those rookie mistakes.
Thank you for being a good sport, on their behalf. I think you deserve good things.
Sorry for the masters thesis on dbd. I kinda just pour all my thoughts on something into one comment sometimes directed at feedback, audience, and including reply to commenter. Love you mean it friend, because you’re out here struggling in the loop streets, and being a good sport about it. I see you.
I tried repeatedly to post a friendly reply to this, but for some reason, it's waiting to be approved before being posted. Hopefully it gets posted eventually, but for now I thought I should just say thanks for the reply :)
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@copperysinger5 said:
-Extreme unfairness alert- Killers no longer get satisfaction of winning against human players; they can evade mori and you are left with bots.
There is no fun in winning a multiplayer game against bots. Once killer has upper hand and its time to put the finishing moves on the survivors they quit with no penalty. but yet if they have the upper hand they can stall at the gates and tea-bag; forcing the killer into humiliation.
like playing poker and your opponent (survivor) is allowed to go all the way to the river to find they don't have a winning chance and fold but keep all their chips but you cant; you are only allowed to fold if they fold.
But in a situation where the survivors dc, they will often have already lost the match. They're essentially conceding, which is a perfectly acceptable way to exit a large number of games. They're acknowledging that they can't escape. How does a player not gain the satisfaction of winning if their opponents concede the match?
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@chatgiraffe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906766#Comment_3906766
Four survivors can't decide to get downed "on command"? Okay, say you're playing Killer and all four survivors run right up to you and just start throwing the match, not doing anything but following you around tbagging or whatever. What do you do? You down them all. Now they've all DC'd. If a SWF was only interested in bullying, farming clips, or just didn't want to play against any strong/annoying killer, that's all they have to do. Whats the Killer gonna do? Not down them? At that point, you're the one giving them a free win.
And regarding everyone here who seems to thing that my big issue is I don't get to gloat over doing a funny animation, if I wanted to force people to watch Moris, I would just bring an actual mori, not use the Finisher. These people who instantly abandon the game the second they've "lost" have bigger ego issues than i ever will.Honestly, people leaving the match because they don't want to watch a mori has no impact on the killer in any way. If a survivor exits the match because they don't want to watch the mori, the killer still gets to do the mori and still gets all their blood points. This doesn't imply in any way that the survivor has an ego problem.
It may just be that they find the finisher mori, or moris in general, to be an unsportsmanlike way to show off, and they don't want to put up with that. Alternatively, they may just want to get on with it and go next, or even have a deep sensitivity to particular mori of the killer in question (e.g. some people have serious repulsions to the moris of Clown or Plague). All of those are valid reasons to just exit the match, none of which impact the killer player's ability to see their mori, or the outcome of the match in any way.
Regarding whole teams giving up, if four survivors wanted to go next in a match in the past, they could have still gone up to the killer and got themselves downed and hooked. That hasn't changed. However the devs are working on a go-next prevention mechanism to make sure people don't enter games just to have the game abandoned, ruining the match for the other players (the killer included).
I think the option to abandon the match under limited circumstances really just alleviates the most annoying things people see in the game, increasing the overall game health. It seems to be a good thing for the player-base in general :)
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905197#Comment_3905197
Did you end up getting the BP? I still haven't. I guess at this point I just might report it to them.
I finally got it some time last night. But I think it only happened because I went back to check that my Steam and Twitch accounts were signed in and linked to by Behavior account.
What's weird is that I still haven't received the Half Ghoul badge or the Anteiku badge in spite of drops being confirmed on twitch before the BP drop or the Anteiku Cafe banner (thr latter two of which I have received). Still trying to figure this out. So I agree. It might be worth reporting. Seems very glitch or something :/
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906144#Comment_3906144
Alls good they were probably just practicing their recovery crawls, some people don’t like to give up they try as long as they can, and that’s okay. Probably a stubborn Capricorn or something that thinks they still had a chance at gate and trusts their teammate will get them up if they can because team work makes the dream work. Why do I feel like this just happened to me not too long ago, because my duo buddy was running a hatch offering and a very similar situation played out. Coincidence or fate? What killer were you playing?
lol It could be me. I was running a scream Pig build because I recommended the build to someone else here not long ago, so I ran a few matches with it.
If you were in that match, I have to say I can't remember if the fourth survivor seemed annoying, or if the second to last seemed to have some shorter chases than the last standing survivor. Sometimes if one survivor has shorter chases than others, I want to make sure they had a good experience and give hatch for that reason. Whatever was the case, I definitely went looking, hoping to let that survivor get hatch :)
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905957#Comment_3905957
I don’t like the way environment it creates so for that reason alone I don’t like hatch. I prefer to figure it out with the killer most times if they’re going to kill me or let me have it. You do deserve the 4k though, because survivor is the team side and the team lost. Don’t ever feel like you don’t deserve it because you do. You played really well.
Sometimes I crawl away because you never know what’s going to happen like if they survivor is going to lose line of sight or they’ll be able to get you before the killer finds them, and it’s better chances than being where the killer remembers they left you, and maybe hatch will spawn near you.
Even if I bleed out because I crawled off I’m never like oh man that dirty killer left me down, it’s more like welp that didn’t work out. I know full well crawling off is my highest chance for survival; and I’ll pick it every time. Don’t blame yourself for other people’s decisions. As a survivor I’m glad they’re crawling away because you should never stay exactly where the killer left you, killers watch that area. It makes things harder for the team when people do that. Sure sometimes they take a chase too long and you could have recovered by then, but if killers start slugging I’m crawling. If you find me and want to figure it out that’s cool, if you kill me that’s also cool.
TLDR it’s cool, don’t beat yourself up about it friend.
That's true. I actually didn't use my brain enough because I realized afterward that they brought a hatch offering. But the slug bled out while the person on hook was trying to fail the skill checks. After the match, I realized the slug was almost certainly at the other side of shack, which was the direction I saw her crawling in. If I had realized, I definitely had enough time to get there. So I could have just used my brain a little...
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Yeah, I'll agree with this. From the killer perspective, if I down the second to last survivor, and leave them on the ground, it just seems like me telling them "Wait here and do nothing while I go do stuff to your teammate." It's super rude. And as survivor, it's so annoying to have to wait so long just so the killer gets a few more blood points. At that point the killer has already won, so there's no need to do it. And if someone wants an adept, then they should just go actually earn it instead of using a cheap exploit to do it. From both perspectives, I see slugging for 4k as cheap and rude.
I have to admit though that last week I had a match where I wanted to give hatch to the third survivor, but their teammate had seemed somewhat annoying, so I downed the third and went after the fourth. Once the fourth was on-hook, I went to go pick up the third so they could wiggle off. I searched frantically and couldn't find them. I felt bad because I forced the third survivor to wait while I did that, and then I ended up with an undeserved 4k :(
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I find killer fun. They only seem to nerf things that are getting abused or are genuinely not fun to play against for the opposing side. And they genuinely try to balance them instead of eliminating them when possible. You can see that in things like anti-face camp and basekit borrowed time. BHVR attempted to nerf camping and tunneling somewhat because those playstyles can be oppressive or just unfun depending on the scenario. But they didn't eliminate them entirely.
Likewise, CoH was nerfed to a point where it's still there and can be okay, but isn't a non-stop free heal anymore. And obviously old DbD was vastly different. Bring a BNP? Gen done! Ebony mori? Who needs hooks? But those got balanced out.
BHVR is always trying to balance the game not necessarily around fairness, but instead around maintaining the needed number of killers and survivors so they maintain their player-base. That ends up causing them to look at their numbers on each side, at all MMRs, and try to ensure the game is fun enough that people want to play. That's why Skull Merchant got nerfed. It wasn't explicitly about complaints. She had developed a reputation for bringing wildly annoying games, so much that the other side couldn't help but remember what she was and had very negative associations with that playstyle. They only did what they did when they felt they had no better option to fix her contribution to the 'go next epidemic.'
Ghoul could get nerfed, but so far I'm not finding it that hard to play against. The hitbox is weird and pulls hits that seem to go around corners sometimes, but it seems like some of the uproar might dull down a bit after some time. BHVR gets their money by trying to balance both sides to keep us happy enough to keep playing, in spite of how we might all get annoyed at the game sometimes :D
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Mine also didn't show up in game. I looked in-store or for something I might have missed too.
Actually, I also just looked at the Twitch drop webpage and saw that it says it may take some time to fulfill in game, depending on the developer's fulfillment schedule. Maybe we just have to wait a day or something.
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I'm not sure that these surrenders are explicitly meant to represent losses, but maybe more to alleviate annoying match states.
I had written more, but then I saw the option in-game for the first time. It actually says "Abandon".
So I imagine the idea is to not consider the option necessarily always tied to doing well or doing poorly, but rather to just enable people to avoid the most annoying game states when the match essentially already over.
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I play on PC, so I get the fun of post-game chat. There's a broad range of people talking in post-game chat, from people who are worse than those you mention to those who are awesome to deal with even when they're disappointed. Fortunately, more are positive than not :)
I chose to play games only on PC a while ago though, so I haven't used a console in ages. So I don't know how much effort is needed to jump over to someone's profile to message them. If it's like it is on Steam, it's one or two extra clicks. It's possible that people who would otherwise be pleasant to deal with just aren't motivated enough to hop over and message people with silly, fun, or nice comments, while people who are grumpy are very inclined to complain.
About your question of how to reach those people in a way that might impact their approach to community interactions: A long time ago, I worked in some public facing customer service positions. The trends were similar. People were mostly nice, mostly friendly, but some people have no idea how to handle being angry. I definitely got yelled at for a store being out of the soda someone wanted. Store out of shampoo? Yell at cashier. Most of that anger would diffuse rapidly when people talked to my face for a minute though.
The anonymity enabled by the internet makes that sort of diffusion of hostility less likely since people aren't interacting face-to-face. Early on in my gaming experiences, I did find that if I told someone that I felt poorly because of their playstyle, that could sometimes help add humanity and get people to talk positively. But that's a double-edged sword because some people will then double down when you make yourself vulnerable to them. I think adding humanity into interactions is the way that has worked best for me. But I'm not sure how best to do that. Anonymous mode does sound like it helps prevent some of the negative for you, but I'm not sure how to add that personal interaction that I find diffuser conflict :/
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@BasementDweller said:
I think they should stay. Sure an argument can be made that is hinders discussions/arguments, but do we really need 10+ comments telling someone that their post/comment is a bad take?
I feel like the up/down vote system is there so users can show that they either agree/disagree with something being said without needing to comment on said thing.I think it only takes one comment disagreeing with another one so that people can then upvote on the comment they agree with.
My feeling on this is that downvoting isn't needed when upvoting is a thing. I think people don't do a lot of rage-upvoting, and upvotes can't be as easily used to harass users as downvotes can. We're seeing a few users here getting downvotes presumably just because they've said things people disagree with in the past. But someone's past comments don't invalidate their future potential to make reasonable contributions to a discussion.
Beyond that, as others have mentioned, some people will feel less inclined to post opinions they believe will be unpopular, even when their opinions are just as valid as someone else's. And when people downvote, there's not a clear way to see what part of a comment or post they're disagreeing with, which hinders productive discussion. Without downvotes, there needs to be at least one person who writes a comment that explains what they disagree with. Then others can upvote the dissenting comment if they agree with what it says.
So I think having downvotes doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way that isn't already accessible to the system without downvotes. But downvotes can have a negative impact on the quality and thoroughness of the discussions we have. We're probably providing better feedback to BHVR and to each other with the previous system.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902424#Comment_3902424
Thanks for the build I tried it a few times and I got one head pop. My only problem was that I constantly got gen rushed and that looping with her was quite frustrating. Respect to everyone maiming pig. It’s rough.
Yeah, a talented survivor has to get mindgamed or zoned well to receive their second hit in a reasonable time in my experience. One thing I enjoy about Pig though is that the first hit should usually be free. In any case, I'm glad you got a head to pop :D
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902389#Comment_3902389
Can I ask what you would prefer there be instead of looping? If pallets or windows didn’t exist, so looping wasn’t an option, I’m not sure if it would be possible to win at all as survivor.
I could see maybe a mode where there were no pallets or windows, but survivor would have to be silent, and leave no scratch marks. That would be nothing but stealth. Is that more so what you’d prefer in your preferred DBD gameplay?
That's a fair question! I've built skill in looping because I had to, but I definitely prefer things like stealth and mindgames. I like the tension of hiding and knowing the killer is always on the verge of getting to me. Lights Out is a lot more like what I expected when I first started playing than what the game is now. I feel like shorter, tense chases are more thematically fitting than the way looping is played out. Looping feels less like horror and more like a racing game or something to me.
Admittedly, the game is balanced around looping in the current meta, and a game more like what I described isn't what people are interested in, so not much I can do to push the game in that direction :D
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@Langweilig said:
What are good builds for pig to get many head pops?
Scream Pig does alright. I almost never run this, but heads do pop more often when I do:
Perks: Face The Darkness, Sloppy, Undying, Surveillance
Addons: Crate of Gears, Rule Set No. 2
Face the Darkness and Undying make it less likely to lose the key to the build. Sloppy makes it harder to stop the screaming that interrupts the box searches. Crate of Gears makes the searches take longer. Rule Set No. 2 tends to keep people from searching for boxes effectively until their timer is running. I use Surveillance on that build as a way to get free hits to reactivate Face the Darkness and push a bit of gen regression. Obviously, if you replace Undying, you'll be more effective, but it's higher risk. This build kind of lets me chill out and not work hard, but I find it's not as funny as I want…
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I have never thought looping belonged in DbD and don't really like it as a result.
From the killer side, it just feels kind of ridiculous. And from the survivor side, if I have some good chases, I do feel like l helped my team. But looping feels silly and cartoonish, not like something that belongs in a horror survival game.
So I'm not a fan of looping. It kind of makes me feel like I got bait-and-switched. Having said that, I'm still somewhat immersed in the community and for that reason, I haven't switched to another game. The DbD community is overall very pleasant to deal with compared with some other gaming communities, so that makes up for some things :D
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I agree about Kindred. It's very strong on new players. That with WoO, Visionary, and Technician is a solid build to get started.
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I like perks that are unconventional but funny or interesting when they work. Deception is very satisfying when it works. One time I ran into shack, popped deception on the first locker, then jumped into the second locker. So the killer heard two locker sounds and thought there was someone there with me, waiting for a Head-On or Flashbang save. So Nemi was doing locker dances for a while as my only remaining teammate was finishing a gen.
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A surrender option for each side can be a decent idea idea, given some set of conditions required to do it. For example, if a lot of time has passed in the match (e.g. 30 minutes) with too few gens done or too few hooks accomplished, or all survivors are on the ground unable to get up for some amount of time, surrender is probably a decent option. I think the surrender conditions need to be kind of restrictive to avoid a scenario where lots of matches never reach the endgame, but this can be a good QOL feature. Still, surrender conditions need to be considered carefully.
But for cases like whole team slugging, surrender isn't bad. It could also be the case that all members of the surrendering side are replaced by bots, allowing the side that did not surrender to finish the match if they would like. We know from 2v8 that killer bots can reasonably be added, though they may not be as skilled as human players.
Regarding awarding one player's blood points to another player: this is a very bad idea. I'm also kind of concerned about how the post says 'we killers' as though killer players and survivor players are different people. Most of us play both roles if I'm not mistaken.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3901038#Comment_3901038
We said the same if distortion since aura reading give killers unfair advantages and no matter what we say killers was not having any of it and make excuse like it cause me to tunnel mor eand all that baloney as if tunneling was not always a thing even during strong gen kick meta.
My and I Swf used distortion properly, we all parts as a team but ty to solo q who used the perk wrong. Swf suffered a good perk cause of soloq. Know how funny it is when a blight/huntress DC cause of all 4 o us had it and they got denied a free early chase? It was nice also to work out important gens to avoid 3 gen or being forced off by some high mobility killer only to have it pop and res destroyed all that progress?
As I said lightborn is a killers distortion robbing survivors of defending themselves in chase or even saving someone being tunneled and its not right its infinite. A killer cant fully stop a sabotage as easily unless they have mad grit build and even that don't fully stop sabotage.
I can even take it far to say plague need a rework, her ability to make all heal perk and medkit useless its annoying and maybe that's why killers lost the ability to last second change their killer.
Yeah, people saying that distortion caused them to tunnel definitely were just making excuses so they can tunnel. Frequent aura reading on Blight/Nurse is very strong, and distortion is a reasonable counter to it. Nurse sees you behind a wall and just teleports to hit you, countering her only real weakness. So Distortion never seemed like a problem to me.
Personally, I usually won't run more than BBQ or maybe Nurse's Calling on special builds. And if I don't see a specific aura, I assume the survivor either jumped in a locker before I hooked or took up a perk slot so I can't see them. No big deal; I'll go find someone. I really can't understand relying on tunneling or proxy camping as strategies. I'm not going to ruin someone's game just so I can perform against survivors beyond my skill level.
Most times I ever ran Lightborn, I wished I had a different perk instead. But you're right that flashlights and flashbangs are valid tactics to stop tunneling. Maybe in that sense, Lightborn should have counters that are replenished by not tunneling or camping? Like you start with some number and then get one or two Lightborn counters for getting away from the hook, and maybe an extra counter for having survivors within some radius upon hooking to account for swarming that's common in bully squads?
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It's weird that this is even being discussed. Lightborn is extremely niche. If a killer suspects they have a bully squad on their hands, it can be a decent QOL choice. But against a bully squad using flashlights and sabos, slugging is probably plenty to get done with the annoying match and walk into the post-game chat with a 4k.
Against talented survivors, Lightborn can deny flashbangs (e.g. from locker-hop/flashbang combos).
The role of Lightborn is mostly just to prevent the most annoying playstyle survivors can bring. To some extent, complaining about Lightborn feels like when killers complain about OTR or DS. Those latter perks mostly only matter if the killer has been tricked into chasing a survivor who has them, and are meant to prevent obnoxious killer playstyles. Both Lightborn and these things aren't a big deal, and usually just take up a perk slot that would be better used on something else.
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Adding recovery progress to wiggle progress will generally make bully squads able to easily prevent the killer from hooking survivors. As @XDgamer018 said, the mechanic could easily be abused.
The hook breaking near the killer could have a similar effect, although I do understand the rationale for it. I think getting unhooked by a teammate who is oblivious to how close the killer is or who just wants to farm an unhook should be looked at, but I would worry that the mechanic would also be abused.
Removing unhook notifications seems like a decent idea to consider.
Removing gen aura visibility from killers would be thematically interesting, but would also be an insane nerf. Doing this would probably require a rebalancing of the entire game as it would seriously inhibit the ability of killers to perform one of their core needs, namely gen patrol. Having said that, I think it would be a serious thematic benefit and feel more like the killer hunting in a horror environment. But that would require rebalancing toward what I think the game should have been: more of a slow, tense, hide-and-seek style survival horror experience. But sadly, we have Scooby Doo-esque chase game instead :/
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Agree with others that finisher mori was a bad change. Nobody was asking for this and it encourages boring/unfun gameplay, yet the devs did it anyway.
I do think most of the other recent changes have been good, but I think BHVR have been focused on the wrong things. Improving the SBMM system and matchmaking should have been priority #1 and nothing else worked on until that is fixed. But after years there is still no indication that the devs plan to ever change this terrible system.
Agreed. I find the finisher mori to be almost strictly negative in terms of its impact on gameplay and experience, with essentially no net benefit. I've even started to see a lot of people deciding to dc during the finisher mori when I watch streamers who go out of their way not to tunnel or slug for 4k. And these are reasonably skilled players who haven't been slugged for 4k or subjected to any other bm. There was even a large segment of the community who had no wish to revisit the finisher mori after the first attempt to introduce it.
Admittedly, I find the game health initiative to be highly positive, especially now that BHVR is taking advantage of its ability to crowd-source feedback from the playerbase to help predict unanticipated flaws with potential updates. Having said that, it's always a balancing act to ensure we get pleasantly surprised by fun, thematically fitting content, while also taking these steps. It seems like they're doing well and paying plenty attention to the PTB as well though, so I'm looking forward to how the health initiative plays out.
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One time for me it censored the word 'David'.
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@Nun_So_Vile said:
🥀
We lost a darn good one today.
They really didn't deserve it…
Thank you for making this a better place and providing us with your well articulated points and comments @UndeddJester
🤬
Oh no!
🪻🌷🪻🌷🐽
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899067#Comment_3899067
yeah there are some Games having specific types of Phobia mode
EG Grounded has an arachnophobia Mode that changes spiders to blobs without legs:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HA662JA9KWUT/img-8790.jpeg
there is other Games that have similar Kinds of arachnophobia modes where the models get replaced by something else, eg Star WarsJedi: Survivor, Webbed, Kill It With Fire, Satisfactory, Lethal Company
Sea of Thieves has a Feature for people with fear of being underwater, if you enable it your character will automatically float towards the surface.
Horizon Forbidden West has a Setting for Thalassophobia so that you cant drown (which in normal gameplay would be acquired as an item later on in the game but you have a setting enabling it without need of the item)
something noteworthy imo is that most of these modes are implemented in games where you kinda expect these triggers (eg kill it with fire is kinda specifically about killing Spiders with Fire and you get an arachnophobia mode) but the devs decided its still worth it to implement these settings so even affected people can enjoy the Game - without hurting the Rest of the playerbase
edit: to anyone downvoting.. can you tell me why? This is mostly an informative post answering a question and while I have listed not only games that are life-service games as was asked for those are also still included..I'm confused about how this is getting downvoted too. It's not like you even suggested that BHVR implement this. You just provided information for context. ⬆️
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I don't view this game in terms of winning and losing. For me, there's escaping and sacrificing. My goal is always to do those things, but as long as the game was fun, I don't care if I get a 1k or get sacrificed.
So as killer, my goal is to give the survivors a good match and make them feel like the killer is a threat. I have to admit that if a team gave me a 0k, I'd probably feel a need to go again and do a better job, but I still don't view a 4k as a win or a 0k as a loss. The biggest win for me is when I perform well and my opponents didn't hate the game. We get to the endgame lobby and people are doing alright :)
As survivor, I want to escape, but I'm happy to take wild risks for myself to get a teammate out. However, I avoid situations that will make more survivors put themselves at risk to save me. As long as a killer didn't hard tunnel, slug for 4k, or send me out with a mori, I'm happy. But a significant number of my games have at least one of those things, so although I don't feel that I win or lose, I don't find those matches rewarding.
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Can we compromise at Face The Darkness and Crate of Gears instead?
Actually though, I love that Pig can also jumpscare people still. It's so weird to watch an occasional streamer do an ambush on a gen when they could just uncrouch and make the survivor's heart skip a beat, and be more likely to land the hit.
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@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898636#Comment_3898636
Camping, slugging and tunneling should be allowed. There are situations where it’s needed and to say otherwise is wrong. And the Devs themselves in the past said it was a necessary gameplay mechanic before they started backpedaling.
The OP was complaining about how Devs listen to killers and not survivors which I proved was flat out false.
Really, camping, tunneling, and slugging should be reactionary at most though. Like if you're in egc, survivors and killers expect camping to happen because it's kind of balanced in that scenario, and it's often the only realistic way for the killer to get another sacrifice at that point. And if you only have a few hooks but most gens are done, maybe tunneling becomes understandable. But tunneling and camping at four or five gens often just makes the game feel like a waste of time from the survivor side. As killer, slugging makes sense when you have a bully squad, you need to go pressure a gen instead of picking up, or your survivor is about to wiggle out.
I agree that these shouldn't be removed completely because there are secnarios where they can make sense, but I think that they should be made much less effective in the early game (e.g. 4 or 5 gens). I don't like playing survivor anymore because it's so common for a killer to pressure gens that aren't far from the hook, then run back and hard tunnel immediately before a heal can be done. I genuinely hate when I run out in front of the killer and get as close as I can to them before they even get near hook, but they just ignore me and go hunt for their injured target to tunnel out. I mean, what's the point of playing the game as a survivor if someone's going to do that? And as killer, I would prefer to lose my game rather than tunnel someone in the early game and ruin their experience and then pretend that I did a good job. I would genuinely feel ashamed if I did that.
So I think I agree with you, these things shouldn't be removed, but they should be made less viable in certain situations.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898391#Comment_3898391
This. Hear ye, hear ye. @buggybug and @radiantHero23
Apologies for interrupting the Textual Fight Night®, but I feel the quote above is whats happening. Meaning, Survivors are getting hit from Jupiter, but its nothing malicious on the killers side, its just ping. Its been said servers will toss ya into a different region now and then, and you'll have ping warriors hitting you far away as if Dhalsim has made it into DBD. This is soooooooo rare though, like bigfoot or getting an amazing SWF back to back.
Thoughts? Should ping be something BHVR tries to handle? Can't fully deal with it because.. well, ping. How to make ping work for the entity… Hmm.
This is likely true. It's almost a facepalm moment when a survivor's feet are down on the other side of a pallet and then, afterwards, the survivor sees the hit connect. But on the killer's computer, they just see a normal hit.
If the inverse were happening more often, where a hit seems like it should be landing from the killer's screen and then misses, I think we'd see the opposite discussion. I don't see a lot of those instances as killer though. I wonder if other people see much of the opposite issue? I've seen only a small number of hit animations connect and not give an injury.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QDY127S122SM/screenshot-20250318-101234-steam.jpg
probably would be august but I foolishly thought "people will be pleasant for the winter event"
people were pleasant for exactly one (edit: sorry, it was two; one farming and one non-sweaty normal game, still disappointingly few though) of the dozen or so games of the winter event I played
As Pig, I was doing stealth snowball strikes!
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This is a good idea. If someone gets a brief internet disruption, they could rejoin their game, at which time they would be placed into spectate mode on their survivor for at least 5-10 seconds to get their bearings. Then, some button press could re-enable control of the survivor. Upon doing that, perhaps the disconnect penalty could be lessened since the survivor tried to make up for their poor connection (or their bad decision to dc).
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Bots are okay. Whether they're better than 50% of survivors just depends on the distribution of players I guess. Strong survivor players will outperform a bot almost all the time since they have better knowledge about when and how to link or abandon tiles, where to run to get the best advantage, and can't be as easily forced into bad positions. I think bots also aren't familiar with killer-specific counters.
But bots are much stronger than new players. No debate there at all. The prevailing understanding of bots is that they have wallhacks. Whatever the case is, they sometimes have to be forced out of loops and can't be mindgamed. So I'd agree that a bot is a strong addition to some teams. Personally, I like bots because you know they'll do gens and go for saves when it's safe to do. If one of my teammates gets replaced by a bot, I know the match is looking worse for my team, but I still smile when a bot comes to unhook and heal. And then I get a weird loyalty to them :)
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A decent three gen is an extremely strong position for the killer. The most recent time I had a close three gen, I turned a 1k into a 4k. There's no way I should be given more advantages in that situation by being able to regress gens infinitely. That would mean that I never need to progress the game and could instead just patrol the gens until server end time.
Edit: I have to admit that the survivors really could have taken the 1k and escaped, but when they went for the save, they gave me the chance to regress the gen they could have popped, put someone else on hook, and force a weaker position for them.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3896607#Comment_3896607
I never knew what Smurf accounts even were until I researched it last night. Thank you for the information, I appreciate it.
lol I chose my name here because I didn't want it to be the same as my Steam name and couldn't think of anything creative ;)
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Sounds like something that can become a new urban legend in the community. Like, on midnight of the thirteenth day of the third month, the essence of Dwight emerges from his locker for one hour to try to escape the entity's realm. If you're lucky, you can see him trying to escape.
But yeah, @edgarpoop seems to have the likely answer :)
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Creating DBD 2 would be a huge risk. It's likely that unless DBD 1 goes offline upon the launch of DBD 2, the playerbase would be split. Possibly more importantly, BHVR likely would have to renegotiate their licensed content into DBD 2, leading to a possible loss of some revenue from licensed content. And this is all in the hope that DBD 2 succeeds.
I think an updated code-base would make much more sense. It wouldn't be impossible to designate a team to lay the framework for new code that accommodates vertical movement, and then transition more into that effort as it gains steam, assuming it works well enough. The question is whether that's worthwhile for BHVR. I think they have other priorities at the moment, but it's not impossible.
And sometimes I've enjoyed going into a lobby and saying "okay, ctrl to crouch, but how do you jump?"