UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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Ok BHVR, come on... usually one gives benefit of the doubt, but I have to say, this is quite abhorrent...
The response from Alexander was a little poor, but at least an attempt was made to assure the customer their purchase will be available at some point. Providing context on the nature of said issue and what needs to be resolved would have been appreciated I'm sure... if we're talking days, maybe a couple of weeks, that's a little more understandable, but if we're talking months (or possibly never), that's disgusting...
Mark's response is just baffling. We have a bug that allowed you to purchase region locked content, then locked that content and removed it from your account after you bought it, but without returning the currency you bought it with... you've now lost that currency...
The consumer here has been entirely reasonable, and only asked for the bare minimum of expectations for such a blunder (a blunder of your system btw, not his), the return of his auric cells... and you are saying you can't even provide that!?
What the hell man? The man isn't even asking for a refund (which he even has a goid argument for that)... but this is just a credit note, which any basic retail system should be able to provide. I can understand that perhaps it's not possible to actually refund the actual auric cells back into his account because its beyond your personal powers to do so and/or is tied up in the system... but for God sake you've at least got to have some kind of auric cell code you can provide to redeem in the store to return this man cells, or something?
I refuse to believe you don't have a contingency of some kind for a situation such as this...
Also please advise your customer service team not yo say "thank you for your understanding", when you basically just tell the customer to go eat crap... even the most reasonable of people would be livid at this response.
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Aye, us console gamers got it far too easy... too long have we gone without the full end game salt experience and walking the fine line between being defending yourself and risking getting banned ☺️
Seriously, long as I can turn it off... cause trying to stop myself going Pete Tong and saying aomething bannable to survivors looping under hooked survivors would be much more difficult xD
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
Sprint burst is activated by the sprint button. That's the point of this topic. There is no "99ing" sprint burst. It activates by running on console. It needs a separate button to activate. The perk is worthless as is when you have to walk all match then when killer approaches use it.
Erm… I trust you just didn't understand me and aren't just being deliberately difficult, but you absolutely can 99 sprint burst…
All you do is start sprinting once the exhaustion icon on the right hand side of your screen is just about to recover…
Here is a video demonstrating how to do it…
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
Then the perk is worthless because 70% of the time you are running to either a generator or from killer. I don't see how it is overpowered when the perk goes ON COOL DOWN 60 seconds after use. This means for sprint burst to actually have use is to be walking all the time. This is ridiculous! BHVR fix please.
I'm not trying to tell you to git gud, I'm genuinely trying to help your usage of it, but the first thing I will say is it is 40s at tier 3, not 60s, and tier 3 is what is used to govern balance.
So some general tips for Sprint Burst: -
- Do not be afraid to use it to cover ground, covering ground quickly and starting working on objectives is always profitable. Do not fall into the trap of walking everywhere cause you want to keep Sprint Burst ready.
- Use it at the start of the trial to distance yourself from other survivors and make it to tiles/generators, and begin building up its cooldown.
- You want to get used to "99ing" Sprint Burst. If you are exhausted, then you can run with the sprint button to pause your exhaustion, this will mean you can walk at the right time and get your Sprint Burst back and run on demand.
- It recovers while you work on a generator, if it isn't recovered and the killer is nearby, consider leaving gens a little earlier and walking to safety to keep getting closer to 99, then hold sprint and don't let go until you need it.
- If you do have Sprint Burst recovered while on a gen, you can afford to play riskier with it when you leave gens, as Sprint bursting away late will often let you reach safety, and a number of killers won't even bother to chase you if you pre-run with Sprint Burst. This is especially useful against a stealth killer like Wraith, Sadako, Freddy, Chucky, etc. or even a rush killer like Blight, Oni or Hillbilly, where you want to ensure you never let them hit you off their map traversal rushes.
- Use the same "99ing" logic when leaving generators to go for saves, stay on the gen and don't let go to go for saves until you have SB 99ed. Having SB 99d as you unhook allows you to SB away after the unhook if the killer comes to interrupt the unhook, or even if they cut you off on the way to hook and you need to loop them, you already have SB 99d, so can use it in chase.
- In terms of using 99d Sprint Burst in chase, the best scenario is to loop at a weak or middle pallet\window, where you can throw the pallet to cut off the killer and walk for a fraction of a second to get SB back to then sprint off to a better tile. If you time it really well, you may even bait a swing and make even more distance.
- Sprint Burst also lets you sprint away off after being unhooked to reach a tile, greatly reducing the killers ability to tunnel you off hook. This is especially good with Blood Rush from Renato, which gives you a full on demand SB any time in the next 60s.
- Also consider Quentin's perk Vigil to recover faster from exhaustion, Fixated from Nancy to walk 20% faster, or if you're worried about it take Lightweight to diminish your scratch mark trails while you hold a 99.
The main thing to stress is, don't forget point 1. Time is the most important asset in DBD, so don't be afraid to just cover ground faster, 40s doesn't take that long to recover.
Sprint Burst is an exceptional versatile perk, it is a little tricky to manage, but if you master it, it is extremely powerful
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
It IS a console problem. What good is the ability when 70% of the time you're running anyways during a match? BHVR fix please. You been buffing killers like crazy while survivors get the shaft in an already killer sided game.
It is not a console problem, in regards to the fact that PC has exactly the same controls. Sprint Burst activates on the use of the rush button when you are not exhausted, and this is the same regardless of platform, so you can't call it a console issue, as it is not specific to console, but an inherent part of the perks design built around management of your exhaustion. Sprint Burst can be used in chase on demand, but it requires careful management of your exhaustion, and that is the trade off for how strong and impactful the perk is.
What you are advocating for is an on demand trigger of Sprint Burst, and there is a perk that does this already called Dramaturgy from Nicholas Cage. It isn't quite as fast as Sprint Burst because the fact it's on demand is a very powerful effect, so it is balanced by being not as strong an effect as Sprint Burst, but it can be used to gain extra distance at the exact point you need it to reach pallets, windows, etc as part of looping.
So unfortunately no, this change is not healthy for the game, Sprint Burst would become a swiss army knife that outclassses every other exhaustion perk in the game, and would probably be the strongest survivor perk in the game period (it's one of the strongest ones already).
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@cowfarmer said:
Insidious, Monstrous Shrine, Agitation and Iron Grasp.
You are filth... but I kinda respect it 😁
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@Shroompy said:
The free character trials is MASSIVE. Something thats been asked for ages now and its a huge step in the right direction for newer players. Well done :)
Because we haven't seen your name pop up for a while man, we were worried about you, so had to leave the bait hanging to see your dulcet... text... on the screen 😁
Seems like a sick feature... shame I am a DBD Magpie and own all the content 😭😭😭
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@tjt85 said:
It makes sense to remove crouch techs.
But if I'm being totally honest, crouch techs are all I've got in my bag of tricks against these Killers.
Suppose there is an implied trust that if they start overperforming they'll get adjustments accordingly… 🤔
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I have been legitimately wondering since yesterday if it would be an issue if after the initial recovery (30s), a separate 70s self pickup ring comes up to be able to recover out of the dying state...
That's a total of 100s to pick yourself up, which the bleedout is only 240s... so you might get 2 self pick ups a match... but it takes a long time...
If you run Unbreakable you get 1 pickup at 23s, then each self pickup after that would be 73s or 92s (depending on if Unbreakable affected the secoundary recovery or not), which still only grants 3 pick ups in either case.
Doesn't sound broken, and still seems reasonable for the killer to close out games reasonably... but I'm not sure yet, still mulling on it.
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I dunno, it seems the limitations on this perk are fine. It's quite hard to set it up that the vault you actually need the 20% is the one you actually get it on...
Like yeah, you can force it, but most of the time I use it, any vault I use it on, I would have made the vault anyway by just runnung slightly sooner; in most cases I would have actually wanted/needed it on the 3rd loop or so to get genuine value...
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I mean like you said, that would not make the perk that much better but I'm not opposed to the change.
But while we're at it, I'd also change it to let it activate from any combination of 2 totem/chest interactions (rather than specifically needing one of each) and bump the aura reveal up to 6 seconds.
The only reason I'm hesitant to make it longer than 6 seconds is to not completely mess up Clown and Doctor since it actually is a good perk against them (but it's not good in 95% of games).
In its current state I usually only use it with Dramaturgy, because it replaces the random scream with a useful aura read meaning that you have a 3/4 chance to get a positive effect.
I'd agree with that, makes it a perk you can run in a bones or loot build... I dig it.
Also slick combo, I might try that out later xD
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Seems like the intent it to allow you to break off from a bad chase and try to stealth up to another survivor? However yeah, seems a little lacklustre...
Might be OK on small hard to see killers like Chucky or Xeno for hiding your red light?
Maybe decent on teleport killers like Unknown, Sadako, Dredge and Freddy if you know you're being taken on a bad chase, you can get Undetectable and port away?
However yeah, outside of that, struggle to see it.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867028#Comment_3867028
I honestly didn't hear about Canada sanctions, only about USA's. Maybe they are the reason, but they close purchase option in first weeks after our "incident" in 2022, I'm not sure sanctions appeared that early, even if they were. You shouldn't take my words for truth, it's just where I came from. I admit that I may be wrong. But taking into account that they closed russian forums (now there is a line, yeah), stopped translate patch notes and, as far as I know, got rid of russian community managers, I'm sure it's only their decision in first place.
About second part: I'm not gonna search for it again, here is just screenshot of their answer. Why it's in Chinese? Because these outfits are also not available in China.Thanks, so for myself and those interested via a translator:
Dawn Murderous Official [
UP1 hour ago
IP territory: Shanghai
We are always committed to providing game content to all players, but this does not always happen smoothly. Unfortunately, the appearance of "Ito Runji Collection" items cannot be purchased and used in some areas, causing inconvenience nd troubled, we express our deep gratitude!
So as an objective observer, there is no information available on why this content couldn't be provided, however from the statement made it seems to imply to me that while they always attempt to make content available to everyone, this is not always possible for some as of yet unknown reason.
Without that explanation we can't draw any conclusions, we can only speculate, and it could be for any numbers of reasons both in and out of BHVRs control... so automatically assigning blame seems a little unreasonable.
Since there is no statement as to why this content cannot be distributed, while it may be selectively holding back that information, it is also possible that they can't reveal that information either....
It basically looks like the message is "can't sell it in this country, can't say why, sorry!". If BHVR made this statement to all users, would that somehow rectify the problem?
However the only way I could see there being a valid argument was if it were advertised in those countries as being available, then taken away. However if it is advertised on a global platform, it's a different story. It would be an improvement to say "only available in" in said advert, that's a fair statement, but as far as I can tell the content announcement and release was the same day....
Hopefully it does come to those countries at some point, but I'm not quite seeing this notion of "betrayal of trust" here.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866988#Comment_3866988
You still won't leave me alone honestly, stop mentioning in every post as a stalker. I expressed my opinion and there is no bait here. I am mostly on the side of survivors since they are almost not buffed (especially solos like me) and their "good" stuff being gutted almost next day thanks to killer mains and I'm not talking about 2022 or 2023 it's all started last year, devs only buff killers and their builds
Those statements are objectively untrue man, and if your goal is to have people listen to your point of view to pursue that change, you can't say blatantly untrue statements if you want to have your points taken seriously.
As of October 2024 survivor changes included:
@UndeddJester said:
I'm confused, aren't we in the middle a huge survivor perk buff streak?
- Decisive Strike
- Invocation: Weaving Spiders
- Autodidact
- Empathic Connection
- Iron Will
- Resurgence
- Solidarity
- Poised
- Babysitter
- Dance With Me
- Blast Mine
- Chemical Trap
- Wiretap
- Mirrored Illusion
- Chemical Trap
- Flashbang
- Bloodrush
- WGLF
- Quick Gambit
- Teamwork: Power of Two
- Teamwork: Collective Stealth
- Lucky Star
- Inner Focus
- Corrective Action
Vs. Nerfs for:
- Background Player
- Buckle Up
- Distortion
Not all of these have become meta, but they are better across the board, with some of them becoming pretty damned strong... and some of them have even become meta.
There are just as many popular killer perks that have been hit with nerfs over the same time period and nowhere near the same number of buffs for perks that survivors are enjoying. Instead changes for killer side more often come in the form of power increases for weaker killers like Clown, Pig, Trapper, but there are also nerfs for stronger ones like Blight, Twins, Hillbilly.
Doesn't it seem a bit off to complain "killers are getting stronger perks" when the argument is way stronger that survivors are getting far more stronger perks?
During the same period for killer:
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3826786#Comment_3826786
Ok, lets see over the same period.
Killer perks buffed:
- Grim Embrace (technically nerfed in this period, but it's buffed from its original version, so lets be fair, it's still buffed)
- Darkness Revealed
- Trail of Torment
- Oppression
- Dragon's Grip
- Machine Learning
- Blood Echo
- Deathbound
- Genetic Limits
- Hex: Crowd Control
- Leverage
- Machine Learning
- Predator
- THWACK! (Debatably nerfed)
- Zanshin Tactics
Killer perks nerfed:
- Deadlock
- Pop Goes The Weasel
- Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Dead Man's Switch (Debatably buffed)
Overall
Killer perks:
- Buffed: 15
- Meta buffed: 3? (Grim Embrace, Hex: Crowd Control, Leverage), other perks are good, but are they game changing/meta?
- Nerfed: 4
- Meta Nerfed: 3 (debatable on DMS)
Survivors perks:
- Buffed: 24
- Meta Buffed: 7 (Decisive Strike, Iron Will, Resurgence, Poised, Babysitter, WGLF, Bloodrush). Similarly other perks are good, but do that beat other perks out?
- Nerfed: 3
- Meta Nerfed: 3? (is Distortion meta?)
So the divide isn't quite as one sided as I personally believed until I counted it. Yes survivor got more and one could try to argue that way, but is would be unreasonable to call it as big a landslide one way as my original post hinted… but y'know sucks when I have to go against my narrative.
However regardless, the original point of the OP I was challenging is still stacked unfairly one way.
There is no way you can claim that having the changes to Decisive Strike, Iron Will, Resurgence, Empathic Connection, Babysitter and Bloodrush, as well as the rather pleasant changes for all these other perks, in conjunction with the nerfs to the most popular/strong killer perks and the 10s hook timer increase is "gutting the survivor side".
Blatantly biased Us vs. Them statements tend to lead people to stop taking you seriously my guy.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867021#Comment_3867021
No business in the world is gonna turn down additional sales and revenue for no reason, and certainly not for reasons of "we just don't care about the players in that country".
Meanwhile, you can't purchase auric cells for last 3 years in russian accounts for no other reasons than BHVR politics.
What on topic: completely agree.The worst part? No communication. No announcement. No heads-up. Not even a simple
“We’re sorry, this content won’t be available in your country.”I didn’t get an apology or acknowledgment - just a random forum post buried amidst other complaints.
We with literally full discord server of friends wasted an hour yesterday to find out why we can't see these outfits. We found answer in chinese somewhere on reddit, lol. Just because this company don't give a single F at least to explain the reason behind that.
See you say "BHVR politics", and I'm not going to dig into politics because it's not allowed, but Russia is on the list of countries currently sanctioned by Canada under UNA and the SEMA, which can place restrictions on trade and financial transactions to third countries.
I don't have details on those sanctions and what exactly is and isnt allowed, and I'm also not familiar with the law surrounding such things in Canada, but unless you have evidence this is completely unrelated and a decision entirely off BHVRs own back, I respectfully shouldn't take your word for it.
There is nothing wrong with asking for details and evidence to analyse a situation objectively, in fact I believe people should do it as a status quo. I'm sure you'd agree that blindly accepting what anyone says without substantiating those claims would be a failure of my part, would it not?
We with literally full discord server of friends wasted an hour yesterday to find out why we can't see these outfits. We found answer in chinese somewhere on reddit, lol. Just because this company don't give a single F at least to explain the reason behind that.
- Do you have a link to this quote on reddit?
- What does it say?
- Why is it in Chinese?
- Who said it?
These are all reasonable questions to ask for anyone wanting to understand and assess this issue.
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So the first question to my mind is, why is it locked in certain countries?
No business in the world is gonna turn down additional sales and revenue for no reason, and certainly not for reasons of "we just don't care about the players in that country".
There are no illusions that any of us matter more than the money we generate for the product whether we live in the US, UK, Peru, Alaska, Iraq or Zimbabwe, so if there is a profitable market there, and a company doesn't enable content for that region, there has to be a reason why.
Just a random forum post buried amidst other complaints
Would you mind sharing this post? A direct link to it can be obtained from via the date of the comment.
Hopefully it's an issue that can be resolved, so knowing the reasons would hopefully shed some light of the likelihood of that occurring.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
The Twins rework was reverted because it was outright overpowered. Survivors had every right to be upset with it.
As for Freddy’s upcoming changes, we won’t know how strong he is until we test it. What I will say is though, is that the healing teleport will probably be very unpopular amongst survivors.
The 2 big questions I have are: -
- Is microsleep immunity after clock/hook a thing still?
- Does the killer instinct on survivors healing in the dream mean asleep survivors doing healing action, asleep survivors being healed, or both?
The answer to those questions is gonna be pretty important for this TP to survivor mechanic.
The other minor question I have is do skillcheck misses still pull you out of the dream? Cause that now seems to be weird with the widely available clocks, and I've always hated the fact that RNG determines if Freddy's power does things or not in both versions, and thematically I don't like the bouncing in and out of the dream concept via skillchecks... you should be in the dream, or you should actively have to move to escape it, not sit at a gen looking to miss a SC that may or may not ever come.
Regardless I'm a little more positive myself for this rework. The main thing I always wanted from Freddy is ambiguity about when you're gonna fall into dream... to me being unclear whether you're about to fall asleep into the dream or not is the very essence of the fear from Freddy. It's something I felt is lacking in both versions of Freddy... OG Freddy you get pulled into the dream when Freddy wants you by drive by yoinking you (its better but still predictable), and old Freddy is literally a standard set timer that you can see at all times…
With these new sleep progress powers where Freddy can get a boost suddenly, it would be harder to predict exactly when you'll fall into the dream, and thats pretty cool... but of course if you can still see the timer then its not gonna achieve that... 😒😒😒😒😒
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@TonTon said:
Susie is the fav of legion characters
Firmly in the Julie crew myself 🤘
Though Susie's ugly sweater is pretty cool...
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866749#Comment_3866749
You said you wanted mechanics for losing players to come back without directly punishing the other side. Having actual resources for a survivor being tunneled fits that perfectly. Being tunneled in the current maps you might as well just hold W for 20 seconds and die with most of the new tiles. Might have something to do with why so many survivors want to go next rather than deal with being tunneled and having no chance to actually outplay the killer.
I notice you didn't suggest any ideas of your own.
Erm... I did suggest ideas of my own... I can only assume you didn't read it... which is fine, the post was long, but it's kinda off to try and discredit my argument when you didn't even read it.
I'm not even sure why you're attacking/trying to discredit me man at all, you're the one who quoted my post, a post which discussed ideas of what a comeback mechanic is, and how a comeback mechanic should work in an asym, with a bare bones suggestion to give a flavour of what a comeback mechanic could be...
Then you proceeded to claim to describe a comeback mechanic that isn't a comeback mechanic at all, but is instead just regular map balancing, to which I feel I've quite rightly called you out on, since it isn't relevant to points I was making.
If you wanna talk map balance and the number of pallets and windows for survivors to use, fine, but it is not a comeback mechanic, because increasing the pallet count (which seems to be your stance) just inherently swings the game more to survivor favour regardless of how well survivors are doing or not.
If I'm completely honest, to take your argument seriously and address your suggestion, all adding more pallets and windows does is make it so stronger killers who can get hits around and over pallets are far more superior to the rest of the roster, while punishing more macro and m1 style killers with unbeatable braindead hold W and throw pallet gameplay, where all they can do is chew wood until either survivors run out, or the gates open. Doesn't seem so perfect a fix to me.
However, as I say, that is regular killer and map balance, not a comeback mechanic... So if you don't mind, can you clarify what we're even arguing about?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866253#Comment_3866253
That comeback system was maps that used to have resources instead of being deadzone into useless filler pallet into more deadzone. A good survivor could run a below average killer for multiple gens if the killer made the mistake of trying to tunnel them out. Survivor skill expression in chase has been crushed by garbage map reworks.
That isn't a comeback system man, that's a resource management system, and the standard mechanics of the game no matter what the state of the game is.
Those map resources are set and available right from the word go either way. If there are a lot of resources to use, they are there regardless of whether the survivors are winning or not. If there are not a lot of resources to use, they are absent regardless of whether the survivors are losing or not.
This is not a comeback mechanic.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
Why are dream world abilities affecting survivors that are awake? Isn't whole point of freddy to have no power while wake but stronger when asleep.
Also the alarm clock allowing you to wake up on any alarm clock is not a good change.
5 dream tokens with snare+fake pallet is irrelevant. you cannot place any snares or fake pallets. You will run out of tokens in no time.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866301#Comment_3866301
does not matter. it is not lore accurate.
I disagree with you completely there man… It's actually quite the opposite, it's very lore accurate.
Freddy is always toying with his victims, walking the line between having them unsure if they are awake or asleep. His victims often see things suddenly appear while they are still awake as they begin to drift off, and the best parts of the films are when you're not sure if you're awake or asleep. Even his ability to wound you while awake is still in line with his lore, as many people have picked up injuries during this half awake/half asleep state…. but it was always a lesser version of the power he wielded when he had you in the dream.
All these awake interactions can immediately pull the survivor into the dream, which feeds into that uncertainty of being awake or asleep, where he appears more limited while you awake, but once you are asleep, he is far more dangerous when you are in his world… he doesn't start gooping your legs in sludge, appearing next to you at will, or attacking you directly with his claws or via the world around him until you are asleep…
Honestly the only thing missing to make it highly lore accurate is hiding the sleep progress timer from survivors.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3866374#Comment_3866374
My problem is more to do with my stubborn refusal to wear headphones when playing this game (or any game). I don't want all that screaming and all those exploding noises pumped into my ears, so I'm usually just left guessing where she is at a loop and most of the time I guess wrong.
I don't doubt she takes a lot of skill to play well, though.
Fair play, you could consider Dried Cherry Blossom to make up for that? Might make her less annoying for you :D
@For_The_People said:
@UndeddJester @tjt85 you probably know it already but highly recommend Nagai Yume (Long Dream) by Junji Ito!
Crud… that's another manga I've got to add to the list and shunt everything else down😭
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Understand your frustration man, I know how much you want old Freddy back, but in the same breathe, and keeping a positive attitude…
- It does look like hints of his old gameplay of actively trying to keep people in the dream, with your methods of pulling people into the dream being expanded to be far more engaging and interesting for both sides.
- You're getting more use of your teleport gameplay, which I know you love and want to keep, which is also a tool for helping keep people in the dream.
- You also get a loose form of his old slowdown, cause the having knowledge/tp power on survivors while healing, they can't afford to heal while asleep, they need to go and wake up first, which passively slows down their recovery. Healing slowdown for that 30s cooldown sounds like it'll be good on him to make survivors respect it, especially for tag and run gameplay (like old dream yoink and run was in the day).
- Red paint brush also gives you the old global knowledge you used to have as well on old Freddy ^^
So while it isn't exactly as you envisioned, it does have flavours of his old kit, with some new toys as well! ^^
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@tjt85 said:
I'm a huge Junji Ito fan, so I'm really happy to see some of his creations come into the fog (even if it is only as a collection of skins).
They all fit the Killers / Survivors that they've chosen to adapt really well. The only down side for me is that I wish they were for Killers that I actually play as. I can see why they chose to adapt The Spirit for Tomie, but she could have easily been a Dredge skin as well.
I guess I could try playing some Spirit games… I usually avoid playing Killers that I don't enjoy facing as Survivor, but this skin could tempt me over to the dark side.
TBH, I believe the only reason people hate facing Spirit is she always runs back to hook and tunnels hard, and there isn't a lot you can do if that's what she wants to do… if you don't do that she is kinda hard to play and I find her quite a bit of fun to face. 😁
Be the Spirit you'd want to face dude ^^
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@Crowman said:
The snares only make the awake survivor fall asleep faster. They only get hindered when asleep. Also the snares only do half the sleep timer. It's a middle ground between the point and click put survivor asleep after 7 seconds from the original Freddy power to Freddy having to hit awake survivors to put them asleep.
Pallets were kind of bad when only asleep survivors saw them since it became easier to remember which ones were fake.
The main reason his powers now work on awake survivors so that the killer player isn't in a situation where they have effectively no power in chase.
Looks like Snares are a skillshot now, like an Artist crow?
[NEW] Dream Snares now move at 12 m/s with a cooldown of 5 seconds. They can go through walls and up stairs, but not off ledges.
Sounds pretty awesome… Also his dream pallets are a bomb he can trigger now, so they aren't just a trick for survivors, but an actual proper trap/mine for path cut off:
[NEW] Dream Pallets can be triggered to explode in a geyser of blood. The explosion occurs 1.5 seconds after activation with a 3-meter radius. When a sleeping Survivor is hit, they become injured. When an Awake Survivor is hit, they gain 60 seconds on their Sleep Timer.
The teleporting to injured asleep survivors though…. that's horrifying 😱😱😱😱
Not sure if it's just "healing survivors", or if it applies to being healed survivors as well…
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For the discussion of a comeback, I wrote this (unfortunately dead) thread for the 2vs8 comeback mechanic, but a lot of it relevant if anyone wants a full in depth breakdown of comeback mechanics:
@UndeddJester said:
As we all know, 2v8 has a comeback mechanic built into it, where: -
- Whenever a generator is completed, all survivors suffer a 5% repair speed penalty.
- Whenever a survivor is hooked, all survivors gain a 2.5% repair speed bonus.
Thinking about this system, I believe it is far too simple, but as I thought more about it, I went down a bit of a rabbit hole trying to decide what exactly a comeback mechanic means for a game like DBD.
What is a comeback mechanic?
Just so we define our terms, a comeback mechanic is a mechanic where one side is given bonuses in some form in the event that one side starts performing too well and begins to snowball/dominate the game. They provide a means of giving players a chance to "get back into" the game, and at its simplest provides a means of keeping players invested in playing.
It is highly contextual to the games they are in, and the effects are unique for each game. They can be controversial (especially if implemented poorly) since at their core they effectively provide rewards for losing the game. However at the same time, depending on the game, they also provide their own elements of tactics and balance that can smooth out a lot of pain points, particularly regarding combating metas and rush down strategies.
Typically, well implemented comeback mechanics add a different layer of strategy, where a player winning early is still compounding their advantage, but is also incurring a risk along with it, where if they then get outplayed or make a catastrophic mistake despite their advantage, their opponent is greatly rewarded and effectively levels the playing field again.
To explore a couple of genres for games that have comeback mechanics:
MOBAs (team vs. team)
A game like League of Legends for example has multiple comeback mechanics, such as killing spare bounties and objectives bounties.
TLDR - This works in this games context because the focus of LoL is more the objectives and your role in the team, more than your specific ability to win your lane (due to the huge roster). If you're getting ahead, you should in turn be pressing your advantage to help push your team ahead, but that itself comes with the risk you yourself are also a target as well as said objectives, so once you're ahead, you can't just throw yourself at the enemey team and kill as many as you can for free while your team takes the map objectives.
For those who are unfamiliar who want a longer explanation, LoL is all about destroying the enemies base. To do this you farm/kill creeps, monsters and other players to gain experience for levelling up and gold to buy items. The faster you level up and buy items, the stronger you become relative to your opponents.
When a player gets a killing spree, they also get a bounty that increases the longer the killing spree goes. If an opposing player kills the player with a killing spree, they did so at a great disadvantage and can effectively score between roughly 1.3x to 3.3x the gold they would normally get for a kill. A player getting killed repeatedly will also get a losing spree, which will also reduce that players value similary down to 0.33x the normal value.
The idea is that if you've managed to win your lane and get substantially ahead, you are in an advantageous position, and should be pressing that advantage to secure objectives and help your teammates win their lanes to put your team ahead... but if you fail to make use of that advantage, or you get outplayed, your opponents can get their own player fed.
This makes sense in League because the roster is so large with so many hard counters, that a player snowballing a lane is normal, so the comeback mechanic smoothes out the natural snowball that occurs when a player starts to lose, and still forces League goal as 5vs5 teamwork based game.
Fighting Games (1vs.1)
Games like Street Fughter 4 or Marvel vs. Capcom 3 have comeback mechanics in the form of Ultras (a single high damage move) or X factor (a 1 time damage, speed and recovery boost that last longer the fewer characters you have alive).
TLDR - These mechanics work because the pace of these games can quickly result in a heavy deficit for one player, and it's not uncommon to see the fight grind to a halt while a player protects their life lead. These comeback mechanics ensure that both players are still fighting to the end, and actively trying to knock each other out, and the comebacks themselves still require the losing player to outplayed their opponent to use them, they are not "free win" buttons.
For a more full explanation: A game like Street Fighter 4 has comeback mechanics in the form of Ultras, which are a super powerful move that builds up as you take damage with enough damage to totally swing a round.
Marvel vs. Capcom 3 has X factor, which is a 1 time per round boost to damage, speed and recovery that lasts longer based on how many of your fighters are still alive when you trigger it. With all 3 characters alive, it last only a few seconds, maybe allowing a single high damage combo to quickly try and knock out a character, with only 1, it is has a much longer duration, that can turn your lone charactervwothoit assists into a bulldozer that chews through your opponents team.
The comeback mechanic makes sense here, because the pace of these games means a few unfortunate 50/50 exchanges can result in the better player falling significant behind and then getting "lamed out" using keep away and run tactics, non-stop blocking, and running out the clock (having more health when the timer expires is a win).
While people can still do this in these games, the comeback mechanic is a new threat to take into consider. It still requires the losing player to win an exchange (which is harder to do because while on low HP a mistake easily results in a round loss, especially on a time limit), but playing overly cautious and falling for a grab or a mix up can lead into being punished extremely hard and even the game back out (or lose it outright)... this keeps both players engaged the whole fight, and taking opportunities when presented to try and close out the round.
It's also worth noting though in both cases the formerly winning player will now also get their ultra/factor boost as well, but now like before they still have to win the exchange to use them.
So what does a comeback mechanic mean for an asym?
The traits that make up a good comeback mechanic are: -
- It only comes into play when one side is being heavily dominated, and otherwise has a minimal or non-existent effect.
- It doesn't remove the winning sides advantage (which effectively punishes them for winning), it instead creates a "risk" that the winning player has to be wary of.
- It still requires skillful play from the losing team to exploit that incurred risk, rewarding them for good play and not giving up.
With this in mind, while I'm not full.blown negative Nancy on the 2vs8 catchup mechanic, I believe it does fail on all 3 of these points.
That said, it seems to me that coming up with a fair and balanced method of employing a comeback mechanic in DBD is quite hard.... I don't really want to make a suggestion, because this thread is more about what the comeback mechanic should achieve more than making an actual suggestion but to give an idea off the top of my head:
The comeback mechanic should track the amount of meaningful Generator Progress made by survivors and, I dunno a Pressure system of some kind for killers. The difference between these 2 defines whether the comeback mechanisms for either side trigger.
I'm gonna gut feel numbers without doing much maths or really balancing it, but hopefully you get the idea.
Generator Progress is something like a % of the total gen progress done, maybe weight gen each gen at 1, and the progress on each generator so has a value multiplier at boundaries for 0%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%, valued at 0x, 1x , 2x , 3x, 5x respectively.
Killer pressure is more complex, Killer pressure has points weighted based on survivor states. Something like 0.5 points for injured survivors, 1 point for currently hooked survivors, 1 points for downed survivors scaling to 2 over the course of a minute, 1.5 point for survivors on 1 hook stage, 4 points for each survivor on 2 hook stages, 7 for each dead survivor.
If I eyeball it, say the comeback mechanic would trigger when say one side is 15 points ahead of the other.
Off top of my head, for survivors getting the comeback mechanic results in getting a Distortion token passively every 120/60/30s based on their 0, 1, 2 hook stages, and a Bardic Inspiration 1/2/3% bonus on skillchecks based on comeback scaling, with an addtional 10% chance of getting skillchecks. This rewards playing smart and staying hidden, but also encourages jumping on generators and risking being found.
For killer getting a comeback mechanic results in getting a 10/20/30% faster pick up speed and passive movement haste increase out of chase of 10/15/20% for 30s after hooking a survivor based on the comeback scaling. They also gain a 10/20/30% Pop Goes The Weasel with a 10/20/30% faster gen kick speed after hooking a survivor, based on 2/1/0 hook stages on that survivor. This rewards identifying the gens needing to be protected (and helps m1 killers), not being hindered in kicking them (tempered by the anti- gen mechanic), and rewarded with a fast turnover after committing and downing survivors (especially not yet hooked survivors) and getting back into the fray.
That's obviously a rough version I came up with in about 30 minutes, but you get the kinda things I'm angling at.
Survivors comeback should involve being rewarded for playing smart, keeping their vulnerable teammates hidden and drawing killer attention.
Killers comeback should involve being rewarded for holding your important assets and converting chases successfully.
The current system doesn't encourage these things. I'm not really putting my system as a concrete suggestion (I eyeballed everything), but I hope it might inspire others to come up with their own systems!
However the TLDR version is:
Comeback Mechanics should not directly punish a player for playing well and building a lead. The primary reason to have them is to balance out meta choices and rush down strategies.
A good comeback mechanic should create an opportunity for the losing player to make a comeback if the losing player out plays the winning player, in spite the winning players advantage. The idea is to create a risk for the winning player, not outright punishing them.
Trying to make such a system for DBD is difficult because of its asym nature, but I don't believe completely impossible.
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Does it matter if its a rework or a tweak or an update?
Long as its fun, I don't really care, and until the changes are announced, we're kinda arguing about nothing.
All I know is, Myers gameplay changed quite significantly, and that was just a tweak... so seems like potential is there.
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My this was an old one of mine... I was initially like "who is this kook!?", then realised it was me xD
I still like the idea of a mix of old freddy and new freddy for pulling people in the dream. Though the way I'd do it now is have a passive build of of microsleep on survivors, that increases progression when doing conspicuous actions.
Freddy can then pull survivors into the dream like his old version, but at so many charges per second.
Having the ambiguousness of exactly when you're gonna get pulled in would make him so much more scary to play against.
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Mrs Foster for DBD pl0x
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865808#Comment_3865808
it's super unrealistical for demo to tap his m2 every 8 seconds to see killer instinct on his portals. i say 8 seconds because the cleansing time is 12 second which is shorter then a totem cleanse. once you hear killer heartbeat. you need place a portal, look into direction and teleport which takes average of 4 seconds. this has an inherit problem as you will place random portals to teleport which you cannot destroy.
next, even when you successfully teleport, there is travel time between the teleport and survivors are able to run away from the portal so your not guaranteed to get anything from the teleport. there are add-on to increase teleport speed such as deer lung but it reduces max portal count by -2 so your left with 4 portals. you can't put enough portals on gens to get information on them and teleport to them with 4. The add-on is rubbish.
there are 8 gens on the map and 6 total portals. you need around 2-3 portals spare to aggressively teleport and 8 portals, 1 on each gen. you do not have enough portals to cover the map and aggressively teleport to gens.
that is why players use his portals only for devour hope defending because moving around the map and pressuring gens with this ability is not feasible. it does not work.
All makes sense. Nothing I disagree with there at all. I'm only poking you both because I'm not against the change, but all I'm saying is my point would be the counter argument that would stop these changes being made 😅
While I don't have a quote to reference, given the specific list of changes Demo got, I think it's pretty likely BHVR targeted builds that allowed heavy Portal Protection of Hexes like Devour Hope, so getting them to change their mind and reverse those changes is going to require us to think about that specific issue.
As a hypothetical brute force method for example, you may be able to give bring the duration add-ons back, but add portal restrictions.
Restrictions: It is impossible to place a Portal within a specific radius of the following Props:
- within 2.5 metres of a Pallet
- within 4 metres of an Exit Gate or a Hook
- within 8 metres of another Portal
This is not a good solution but maybe totems should be added to the 4m list, so that they are awkward to place and survivors can potentially sneak around the AoE 4m range in some instances, making the build more RNG and thus less reliable. As I say a bad suggestion, but you get my point I'm sure.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865606#Comment_3865606
But unfortunately this addon has a cheating power that breaks all mindgames, and is also too strong on indoor maps where she will definitely give a hit thanks to this addon, especially this applies to solo survivors. For me, the stealth status effect should give hints that the killer is nearby (like mini terror, lullaby)
This is the same as Scratched Mirror Myers my guy. It's good on maps such as Lery's, Midwich or the Game, but bad on any other type of map.
I know why you believe the aura reading is overpowered, but it honestly isn't as strong as you think it is. The thing is, Pig and stealth killers in general are good on these maps; and without this add-on she is even more deadly on Lery's, Midwich and the Game.
A decently experienced Pig doesn't really need auras to play well on these maps, you can easily hear survivors on gens and follow injured and healing survivors with no possible lines of sight where they can see you, so she is still gonna find you easily and appear from behind a wall with almost no reaction time for you to make it anywhere before you take a hit. This is just inherent to stealth killers on these maps.
This means that not only are you still facing the same problems you'd be facing with Amanda's Letter, you are also facing 4 head traps instead of 2, and not having it frees her up to take even nastier add-ons...
So I'm not telling you to get good or anything but as someone who mains Pig, a good Pig will make you think they are running that add-on on those maps even if they aren't.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865772#Comment_3865772
You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong?
Yes but no.
The ingame values they actually provide has never matched the description when doing speed checks for the addon, when lining up videos perfectly it always amount out to around 14% instead of the original intended amount.
Unironically though, they fixed this when tweaking the addon since they had to change the description and percent to match up, so at the very least it saves time on bug reports.
was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?
This Im aware of, it use to have only slightly more range, being 1.5 meters, and not 3 meters.
I think it should be tweaked to 3 meters since the Killer Instinct from Portals could definitely have their addons buffed since they are overall lackluster and awful.
(I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error…
It was 40%. The wiki is straight up wrong in the values since it relied on an error in the Patch Notes, the ingame value was 40% and was listed as such in the ingame description.
changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
Your viewing perspective is locked into going the direction of the teleport. Meaning you get limited value from seeing Survivor's auras during the teleport itself. The main appeal of this addon was seeing the Auras of Survivors after completing the teleport since you get a full 360* view to take advantage of the Aura Reading.
Keep in mind as well this effect also worked on short teleports, so you could just place two Portals close by and quickly teleport to them to basically get BBQ without using a perk slot, which seemed to be something BHVR didnt like for whatever reason.
Furthermore, the effect isnt even that strong, but BHVR nerfed it for being "too powerful" meanwhile they keep other addons, that are significantly stronger, unchanged.
(Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
You could stack it with Unknown Egg to get a 5.5 teleport cooldown.
Unknown Egg would eventually get nerfed (and reverted back), and Eleven Soda was changed to overall have a different effect, killing these utility items. Granted, there are still better addons, I personally loved to use them to abuse the global teleport audio to bait Survivors into thinking I left when I didnt, or using it for teleport heavy hit/run playstyles with minimal downtime.
It doesnt help that the current Eleven Soda is just an objectively worse version of Leprose Lichen, since it requires Survivors to actively be working on a Generator in the same direction that you are teleporting to as opposed to it just being a generic Aura Reveal… which frankly it is just better to bring an information perk at that point.
While I dont take wrong teleports with Portals, since I have thousands of hours on Demo, they also served as new player friendly addons that encouraged them to use Portals since they wouldnt be punished as harshly for doing so, which I think is a positive thing to have for Demo.
Hmm... fair play, pretty much all of that makes sense to me.
It's not like Demo at base it overly oppressive, and you can only get 1 of these add-on effects, not all of them... you seem to have to commit one direction, or take a halfway house of two of them... and none of these add-on combos stick out to me as being grossly unfair with the combos I can see.
Outside of the Devour Hope build ofc, all of this seems fine to me.
As I've though about numbers, having Resin at 25% (16s) or 30% (17.11s) and Webbing and 15% (14.11s) respectively and 40% (20s) or 45% (21.81s) for both results in what looks to be reasonable numbers to me. Decently strong without being unga bunga silly.
Demogorgons ~3s place and use time on a portal to block an attempted closure seems reasonable. Having a 18s window to detect an attempted close sounds plenty to me
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865772#Comment_3865772
The patch notes were wrong. Ingame those addons had different stats than what they’ve wrote in the patch notes.
Figured that was the case, looks like the wiki is also messed up too then, I'll need to flag that when I get the chance.
Just to give a fair shake... A 50% nerf to Upside Down Resin seems pretty heavy… at a base time of 12s for 1 survivor, the old add-on makes it 20s, the new add on makes it 15s, which is actually a 62.5% loss... whivh is a pretty insane nerf... Diminishing effects of course for more survivors working on it... so in that regard this is an extremely harsh nerf...
However to play Devil's Advocate, in the same breathe, a whole extra 8s seems to be quite a lot... pushed up to 27s overall for both old portal add-ons. Even with 3 survivors on it, it is still 18s.
I'm not saying broken... but that is a pretty huge shift in portal closing time... it seems pretty obvious that BHVR are targetting ye olde Devour Hope Demogorgon... which let's be fair, is pretty nasty to beat. Its the same issue as the change to TotH, when you starts getting into 50-60% charge per second reductions, you get into the realms of triple the time to do things.
So I guess the argument against this revert would be that Devour Hope Demogorgon exists… which against a pallet shredding zoner killer is a pretty oppressive build... a middle ground seems to be a better route? Your guys thoughts?
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
As a Demo main, I really dont understand why they nerf his Portal addons so often, when most of the Portal addons dont even get used and it just further shoehorns players into running Rat Liver, Black Heart, and Barb's Glasses every game. Why use Portals addons or alternative playstyles if they are just going to get nerfed anyways?
- Revert Viscous Webbing; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 10% (should be 14%).
- Revert Thorny Vines; Increases time required for Survivors to seal Portals by 8% (should be 14%), Increases range of Killer Instinct by 1 meter (should be 3 meters).
- Revert Upside-Down Resin; Increases time required for Survivors to seal portals by 20% (should go back to 40%).
- Revert Leprose Lichen; After emerging from a Portal, the auras of all Survivors within 16 meters of a Portal (should remove the range requirement) are revealed for 3 seconds (should increase the duration to 5 seconds).
- Eleven's Soda; Shows yellow auras for Generators being repaired while traversing the Upside Down (should be reverted back to the original effect).
Leprose Lichen is the weirdest of the nerfs since it was nerfed because it was basically like a "free map-wide BBQ" but Knight can have infinite Blood Warden and free Bamboozle with his Iridescent Company Banner because that's fine apparently. Yes, Im still salty that they nerfed Leprose Lichen.
Just cause I like DBD history, a plebian Demo and am confused but also interested, would you guys mind explaining why your numbers differ to the patch notes, and why you want some of those changes?
The Demogorgon - Addons
- Viscous Webbing:
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 10% (was 16%) (You reckon 14%? Why a drop of 2%? Are both the wiki and patch notes wrong? https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Viscous_Webbing)
- Thorny Vines:
- Increases the Area of Effect of Active Portals by 1 meter (was 1.5 prior to 4.7.0, and you want 3m? Why?)
- Increases the Sealing time of Portals by 8% (was 11%) (was 14% prior to 4.7.0, understand this, but thoughts would be interesting)
- Upside Down Resin:
- Increases the Sealing time or Portals by 20% (was 28%) (I dunno where this 28% number comes from, was this a 50% nerf to this add-on? I think the wiki alkso contains an error… https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Upside_Down_Resin :S)
- Leprose Lichen:
- While traversing the Upside Down, the Auras of all Survivors are revealed to you.
- After emerging from a Portal, the Auras of all Survivors within 16 metres of an active Portal are revealed to you for 3 seconds. (changed in 7.2.0, originally was global. Why would auras and longer auras of far away survivors be useful after emerging? There is an argument for "why not?", but even if it were changed, the primary effect and immediate value doesn't seem to alter much, or am I wrong?)
- Eleven's Soda:
- Shows the Auras of Generators being repaired in yellow while traversing the Upside Down. (Prior to 4.7.0 - Reduces the Power Recovery Cool-down by -2 seconds after traversing the Upside Down. Basekit for this is 10s. Hmmm… seems fair enough… bouncing between portals more in the event you take a bad portal?)
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865382#Comment_3865382
Dealt with promptly
Dealt with… but not promptly. Also we do get ignored.
- Endurance on Unhooks took us several years to get, and upon release it was so horrible that it was basically useless. In the same patch they also gutted anti-tunnel so tunneling was super easy. They did later buff it to be more effectively but it is still lackluster on it's own and you still need to bring anti-tunnel builds to avoid being tunneled.
- We still dont have any way to Bleed Out faster so Survivors can still be slugged to death for 4-minutes because the Killer actively refuses to hook/mori Survivors out of pettiness or toxicity, this has been an issue for years and nothing has been done about it.
- Anti-Camp is laughably bad and can be ignored in most cases; it unironically made camping worse since Killers now proxy the hook which was the optimal way of camping anyways. Also ranged Killers can just sit in front of the hook from a distance with their M2 pulled up which just completely ignores this system anyways.
The only good/impactful change they have done recently.
- The only meaningful change they have made was increasing the duration you can remain on hook since the extra time allows Survivors to have more time to prepare for save or to finish a Generator/heal before going in for a save. Unironically I dont think people appreciate this single change and how meaningful it is.
Survivors have practically all the say in game balancing and you all still try to gaslight Killers.
Objectively wrong, BHVR listens to both sides.
We've recently see massive buffs to Killer powers:
- Demogorgon buffed.
- Twins buffed.
- Bubba buffed.
- Unknown buffed.
- Dracula buffed several times over.
- Houndmaster buffed several times over.
- Nemesis buffed.
- Myers buffed.
- Clown buffed.
- Huntress buffed.
- Deathslinger buffed.
- Dredge buffed.
- Knight reworked, and in many cases, just better now for the macro game.
- Wesker nerfed.
- Chucky nerfed.
- Skull Merchant gutted, but BHVR has stated that they are being reworked.
- Freddy has a planned reworked but has received minor buffs/changes to their addons.
Safe to say BHVR is trying their best to listen to the community as a whole. Granted, they sometimes make panic decisions that are horrible, like they did with Skull Merchant and Machine Learning, but I really dont think BHVR is strictly listening to Survivors when they have buffed more than they nerfed recently.
None of this is to be "woah Survivors have it bad" but Im tired of seeing posts/comments acting like BHVR "only" cares about Survivors when it is very clear that they are trying to appeal to both sides.
Well I think Dracula and Chucky are great examples on their own, cause both of them are constantly flip flopping trying to find a middle ground for both sides.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865594#Comment_3865594
Bully squads… Bully squads never change... something something Fallout...
Kinda awesome that you can get built-in blind protection! As far as perks for her, someone made me laugh once by suggesting Franklin's on Hag so she can trap the dropped items... survivors should see it coming, but it's funny :)
Interestingly, all this talk of adepts made me decide to go for my Pig adept today. So I popped her three perks on, and ended up having one survivor eliminated, one who was having a bad match, and two others with one or two hook states each. I slugged the one who was struggling so she could get picked up and back in the match, but ended up putting the other two on hooks before they got to her. I felt like I slugged for 4k even though two were still up when I left her on the ground. It was a weird match :(
Maaaaaan, not the "wait, no one saved you!?" guilt xD
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I'm used to the system now, don't really want to learn another system (again).
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I will admit, with the buff to her base crouching speed and her John's Medical File add-on still being 10% (granting 4.2m/s), thia add on is no longer in the trash meme tier, and is actually decently usable with the right build... especially on maps like Lery's and Midwich.
However, the loss of 2 RBTs is a massive deal and really hurts Amanda... At the end of the day, pre-dropping and hold W still hurts Pig a lot... this add-on only makes it so that at least you aren't left bamboozled by a misread ambush afterwards...
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865574#Comment_3865574
That's fair. It probably also helps that I don't really see a difference in my matches between a 3k and a 4k. In my eyes, both are good performances on my side. It also probably helps that I run BBQ on a number of my builds, so I often hook the third survivor, then run straight to the fourth, down them... and then probably carry them to the hatch :)
Oddly, sometimes I like survivors to know that I'm letting them go, hence downing them first, or just winning hatch race and waiting not far from it to see them off. There are cases where I'll see someone is having a bad match and just 'miss' attacks and stuff, but I like to have that 'handshake' at the end of the game.
And I totally get the need to occasionally pull the kid gloves off and hit back against a bully squad. The only real counter I have for a very talented bully squad is to slug them until I think nobody's around for a save. That's why sometimes I'll pump the brakes on my ostensibly survivor-sided arguments and say that there are some things we just need to be careful about.
It's funny how much our playstyles mirror xD
Amusingly I've been playing a lot of Hag today... it's crazy cause I never enjoy facing Hag cause they all camp and tunnel, trap the balls out of hooks and wait for someone to trade only to tunnel out anyway....
But I really enjoy maintaining a Web of traps and putting them in weird little off the beaten path places where survivors don't immediately think to check...and I've been avoiding tunneling players and instead gone spreading hooks, and I never trap a hook. Maybe a path to hook, but never the hook itself... also screw Rusty Shackles xD
M&A, Coup, and Surge have been doing heavy lifting. 4th perk I haven't decided between Make Your Choice, PWYF, Batteries Included, Forced Hesitation I've been trying, and they all work, but only so so value...
Anyway, I've had this weird run of games where I keep encountering BGP flashbang squads... I dunno if some content creator has done something with flashbangs lately... but I've faced at least 4 duos and trios all with flashbangs...
Has been amusing cause after a point, I have been trapping either side of me before I go to pick up,and cause Hag traps yoink your camera, their BGP runs them off course suddenly and completely messes up the save xD
Bully squads man... will they ever truly die? XD
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865347#Comment_3865347
You're right that slugging for 4k couldn't exist without hatch, and I think you and I essentially agree about some fundamentals, and only disagree about some definitions or preferences around some stuff :)
I think you're right that slugging for 4k can be considered a byproduct of hatch. But it isn't caused by hatch. Hatch is a tool/exit path/obstacle depending on who's looking at it. But on its own, it doesn't cause slugging for 4k. I'm not expressing disapproval at you or anyone in particular, though I have to say I'm very tired of hearing people say hatch causes slugging for 4k. That's like saying cars cause carjackings, or laws cause crimes, or computers cause phishing scams.
As you mentioned, slugging for 4k is a byproduct of the existence of hatch, just like crimes are a byproduct of laws, carjackings aren't possible without cars, and phishing emails can't go out without computers. But cars don't cause carjackings and laws don't cause people to do the things that are crimes. In the same way, hatch doesn't cause slugging for 4k. Those things happen because of the motivation of the person taking those actions; they're looking for a certain result that they would seek even in the absence of cars or laws or hatch.
I think the ability to bypass hatch is a severe flaw in its design as well. Slugging for 4k is currently a basekit ability of every killer. That realistically means that hatch may as well not even exist since any killer can just force the last survivor into that same situation hatch is meant to prevent. I play killer a lot too, but I see hatch more like a very reasonable balancing mechanism than an obstacle in any way. Anyway, that last bit is just an opinion. But I think hatch doesn't cause slugging for 4k; slugging for 4k is caused by killers being willing to slug a survivor to push the last survivor into the hide-and-seek match hatch was made to avoid.
Also, thanks for the comment; I tend to respect the things I see you say around here :D
Thanks man, appreciate that 😅
Just wanna go on record as saying much love and respect man 😁
That's a fair enough perspective and I think you're spot on, we agree on pretty much all major points. The only point I think we differ on (and even then only slightly), is while we both agree its mean, unfun and lame to slug for the 4k (I don't do it unless I really have to), I don't see it as a heinous action to necessarily be ashamed of.
At its purest DBD is a simple premise. The survivors need to repair the generators and open the gate to escape before the killer kills all of them. That is the most basic rule of the game, survivors try to live, killers try to kill everyone.
Now I personally like to create a game where everyone is having fun for the most part. If survivors make a horrific mistake I will punish them, but for the most part I'll avoid playing mean and try to make a decent game of it. Sometimes I get my ass beat and I have to start playing nastier to pose a reasonable challenge or punish an obnoxious play style, but mostly I play pretty chill... but this mindset comes with the knowledge that playing this was is not the most effective way to win... and I will reiterate, I don't think it's fair to demonise the killer for playing what they perceive is the best option to win.
With that in mind, lets look at the issue with hatch with a hypothetical where we force hatch somehow. Doesn't matter how really, lets just assume we force it. In this case, it doesnt matter how much better the killer performed than the survivors, doesn't matter how much pressure, control, fast chases they pulled off, the game will always result in the same... a hatch showdown. The issue is hatch is not a test of skill for either side it is pure RNG who gets it. It takes the killer from a place of winning the game by complete domination, to losing the 4k through absolutely no fault of their own. Obviously we could throw up challenges and adepts to defend it again, but if we focus on the pure game, hatch is literally a dice roll or a coin flip at the end for the killers game to determine if they won the 4k or not...
Now where I think you take the stance the killer, knows they are doing something blatantly unfun, boring, annoying and upsetting to the survivor side, and yes they are absolutely aware of that. Based on that logic they should not do it... and I do actually agree with you, I don't do it either withoit very good reason... but in the same breathe I acknowledge that I'm basically saying "don't try to win", which if we're honest, is not really fair to say to killer players..
The flipside perspective is the very concept of hatch is exactly the same for a lot of killers; unfun, boring, annoying and upsetting. It takes all the killers work and says "none of what you've done over this game matters, the survivor can still get the right RNG and escape. You only got a 3k". It's easy to say "well a 3k is a win still", but that is kinda irrelevant, we all understand 4k is the killers objective, and the killer has to literally make 2 separate coin flips (hatch, then gate) to win it...and I think any reasonable person can admit... that does suck. For that reason, while I do accept slugging for the 4k is a little selfish and lame... it's also kinda selfish and lame to say the killer MUST play this RNG coin flip if they ever genuinely want to secure a 4k... someone has to lose, and I guess it's up to the player which side they fall on.
The unfortunate case of hatch is it's a necessary evil that becomes very hard to balance for, because fundamentally, it is a pretty BS additional step placed on the killers win condition... however without it the game suffers more overall... and in the same way, slugging for the 4k being completely removed would make so many killer challenges absolutely insufferably annoying, and basically make genuinely going for the 4k pretty pointless…
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865275#Comment_3865275
But hatch doesn't cause slugging for 4k. That's like saying laws cause crimes because if there weren't laws, people wouldn't have to commit crimes to circumvent them.
Really, hatch and the finisher mori aren't explicitly related. The finisher mori simply gives a killer and extra reason why they might want to go to whatever length they they need to get the free mori. That's a flaw in the finisher mori design though, not in the design of hatch.
Generally, hatch isn't a problem at all. Killers who often slug for a 4k will say that to justify slugging for 4k. But hatch is present explicitly to prevent the things that slugging for the 4k causes: a long, drawn-out game of hide-and-seek that can last for several minutes and wastes time, and a hopeless situation for the last survivor that realistically is a forgone conclusion in the case of a slug for 4k situation. Slugging for 4k leads to that long drawn-out endgame that hatch was meant to prevent, and generates a situation where the last survivors are almost guaranteed to lose.
As you mentioned, some people don't like that getting hatch is essentially random. And it could be that finding some skill-based mechanism to get or deny hatch would be useful. That would need to be very carefully balanced to ensure that the last survivor has a real reason to play out the endgame across all MMR levels, which is quite challenging. Without hatch though (or some similar mechanism to give the last survivor a reason to try at the endgame), we would likely see a very large fraction of matches ending in a long game of hide-and-seek.
We could trigger the endgame collapse as soon as there's one survivor left, but that would lead to the same complaints since the door spawn locations and the specific killer being played would often determine whether the killer can get the last survivor. But if we didn't have any realistic escape mechanism at the endgame, there would be essentially no point in finishing most matches where all the gens don't get done.
Ultimately though, hatch is very useful for the game's health. But with some effort, a skill-based hatch system could be implemented that might satisfy some people who don't like its rng nature. I worry about balance across MMR levels in that case, but multiple extensive PTB tests could help with that.
I have to correct you there, slugging for the 4k is absolutely a byproduct of hatch. It was prevalent before the Finisher Mori, and it still is now. If you have a challenge, or an Adept, or some other 4k condition you have to satisfy, the only way to do it reliably to get the 4k is slug for the 4k, if you don't then you risk losing the 4th survivor to hatch.
Imagine if survivors after powering and opening the gates were each blocked individually from leaving until they touched the exit line, which would then spawn a gem somewhere in the map that they then had to run back to and interact with before they could leave. That's effectively what hatch is to killer, an additional layer of busy work that can just screw you out of a win that you have no control over.
I agree with you the hatch is necessary because without it, the survivor game can quickly fall into no hope situations, e.g. 2 players die with 3 gens left to go, that's a dead lose situation, so there is no point continuing to play... but because of hatch we still have a game, though unfortunately this also leads to the 2 players hide permanently situation... but the point is the alternative in a hatchless world is survivors just give themselves up to die when the game is unwinnable, or more likely hide until the server death.
However, the goal for killer is to kill all 4 survivors, and you can't blame killers for trying to complete their objective. Its literally the point of the killer game. Hatch how it is now is an additonal obstacle for the killer, where you can lose the last kill in a game you are winning by complete rng. If you've ever tried to get all adepts in the game, slugging for the 4k is a necessary evil you cannot avoid acknowledging, and a variable you have to diminish as much as possible. Even if you find the hatch first, you still haven't won, because the gates are powered... so that's 2 additional methods you can lose the 4k that slugging for the 4k circumvents... and as I day, there is nothing inherently evil or wrong about the killer wanting to 4k, every aspect of the game rewards you for killing all 4 players with MMR, points, end game ratings, lore, challenges and achievements all affirming 4ka, not 3ks.
So hatch is a problem... yes it's a necessary component of the game, but one that makes it so that slugging for the 4k is also a required part of the game. The two go hand in hand.
A skill based hatch is an interesting idea, but the main thing those set of changes has to achieve is to make it so the killer has a better chance of catching the survivor before they reach hatch than they do slugging to prevent it spawning at all... so you need a strong incentive to play hatch, and a strong decentive to leaving a 3rd payer slugged.
All the Finisher Mori has done is put a spotlight on an existing problem in the game, and in my experience slugging for the 4k is no more conmon than it was before; the main thing that has changed is very few people give hatch anymore...
And tbh, as a horror fan, I kinda like seeing the mori as a survivor... and if they add new equippable mori's to the store for each killer (and/or improved the animation on the older Mori's), I'd be much more happy to be Mori'd.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865188#Comment_3865188
So, I make the distinction with these being "base kit' for killer because it isn't costing the killer anything to do it. It doesn't have any opportunity cost, which is exactly what perks, items, and addons do. You have to choose that instead of bringing something else. This isn't an item or offering that might be limited in availability in the bloodweb either, it's always available to use.
The difference here is that there's effectively no cost for these strategies to be brought into the game. You aren't choosing "tunneling" over corrupt intervention, or pain resonance. You can always do both. And because of that we run into the real problem with these "strategies", which is that some players can take them to the extreme.. Always camp, always tunnel the first one out, always slug are currently the fan favorites, and the only answer to that is to bring very specific perks.
I'll also add that bringing even one perk to counter each of these not only doesn't stop the strategy, it usually only slows it down a bit (one use unbreakable vs infinitely slugging), but it also means you get no build choice as survivor. You have to run these builds and perks or you can't effectively do anything about these strategies. That is, by definition, a game design choice by the devs.
Your issue with the "game design" is more directed toward someone else, but I'll say this is mainly a wording issue. It's generally on the devs to make sure that the extremes of gameplay are kept in check, and leaving certain parts of the game alone can be a problem.
The biggest example of this was the "double locker save" that used to be possible. It was a "strategy" that was easy for survivors and difficult for the killer to counter. And the only solution for killers was to bring lightborn. That was a "design choice" for a long time, until they finally addressed it and gave killers a couple seconds of lightborn for free when grabbing from a locker. It's pretty easy to see how the previous design was severely flawed when taken to that extreme. (and lightborn is complete immunity. These other tactics "counter perks" are sometimes at most one use per game.)
That makes more sense, I do believe my above post addresses that quite well, but for the abridged version, I believe there are plenty of mechanics in the game vs. camping and tunneling. The primary issue for tunneling (and one of my main sources of frustration in DBD) is survivors don't use hook time to their advantage in SoloQ, and don't try to hide when on Death Hook. Survivors who do can win games without much mechanical skill solely off the fact they read the HUD and play sensibly.
Slugging I do think survivors should be able to do a little more than they can currently... as suggested above, the fact you do nothing is lame, having something you can try is better even if we don't reinvent the wheel
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865188#Comment_3865188
Allowing facecamping was poor design in that BHVR did not make it impossible to do.
Tunneling and slugging are both strong playstyles and unpleasant to go against. They punish Solo Q significantly harder than SWF and often require either extreme coordination or perks to effectively counter. That is poor design.
Adding in safeguards, like a faster bleedout option after X seconds, or something for tunneling is ideal.
The SB example works…except that you can leave and come back, thereby negating the perk.
Appreciate the explanation of terms, but I would challenge your notion that tunneling and slugging are inherently poor design. I understand your point they are not particularly fun to go against, but they are the byproduct of the mechanics that make logical sense for the world they are representing. You should not be able to unhook the survivor in the killers face without incurring risk with it, which is why Survivors have the much more reserved BT basekit, not off the record.
There are numerous deterrents for tunneling including the fact that in order to tunnel, you need to remain in close enough proximity to the hook to ensure you are able to pick up the unhooked survivors trail, thus camping and tunneling are linked. Thus the full list of deterrents for tunneling are: -
- Basekit Borrowed Time, allowing time to reach tiles on unhook.
- 70s hook timer that cannot be improved by the killer with the exception of Monstrous Shrine. This long timer punishes extensive camping into tunnel attempts if survivors use it.
- Gen rushing perks and items that if left ignored while hovering for a tunnel further increase the above problem.
- Stronger perks for killer (such as pain res, grim embrace, etc) having built in incentives to not tunnel, as their value is greatly diminishes and can be potentially lost the longer time is spent tunneling.
- Basekit exhaustion recovery for survivors on hook.
- Numerous strong perks that severely hinder the effectiveness of tunneling (such as Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, OTR, Babysitter, Blood Rush, We'll Make It, Resurgence, Shoulder The Burden, Reassurance).
- Strong items such as Syringes that can heal on the move and greatly extend chase.
Exactly how many mechanics do you want that makes tunneling less effective, before you would consider it "good design"? Does everybody need a Mettle of Man down block basekit before it's considered good design? If it's not that, then what is missing?
Or are there particular killer powers/perks that create the problems that need addressing?
Now I personally think survivors have plenty of mechanics in their favour to face tunneling, and a vast majority of the time I attribute problems for tunneling to be the result of survivors being too keen to unhook. If survivors read the survivor HUD sensibly and don't all mass rush to unhook, even soloQ can generate plenty of pressure.
How about slugging, what deterents are there for that?
- An extremely long 4 minute bleedout timer that is far outweighed by the speed of gens.
- A 30s self recovery time that makes the pick up time for a supporting player virtually non existent if the survivors make full use of it.
- The fact that it doesn't advance the killers objective efficiently at all unless all 4 survivors get successfully slugged all at once, which requires very good survivor location awareness.
- Vulnerability to strong time wasting perks likes Made For This and WGLF, Unbreakable, as well as losing the survivor and falling prey to various fast healing methods, erasing your pressure completely.
- Again strong healing items like syringes can resolve a lot of slugging problems.
Again how many mechanics are needed to make slugging "good design"?
Slugging is largely only profitable if survivors are nearby to be slugged, trying to slug when you have no idea where anyone else is not a particularly effective method of play. Maybe if you're an uber Blight, Nurse or maybe a Billy you can do it. Singularity with Knockout and Twins obvs, but for anyone short of that its generally a bad idea.
I do think slugging is a little too effective in these extreme cases, given that time to pick up and hook is actually costly to the killer, and slugging completely removes that downsides for similar levels of pressure is the killer can move fast enough... though the only thing I think that really causes an issue for slugging in SoloQ is Knockout, all other slugging instances are perfectly managable for the survivor team unless they make a horrific mistake.
I personally also think slugged survivors should have a little more agency, and I would suggest being able to move and bleedout faster at the expense of being louder if the survivor chooses once they've recovered to 95% or greater. I'd also consider letting them swap items in opened chests and off the floor while in the dying state, and I'd also allow them to open hatch from the dying state with a key.
However in both cases they are perfectly logical strategies that give an intended level of threat to the killer. The killer is a human being, not an NPC with their hands tied behind their back to serve as a punching bag for survivors. Both tunneling and slugging are and should be tangible threats in the killers arsenal that survivors should be mindful and respectful of.
I for example would be against any mechanic that makes it so survivors can mindlessly unhook under the killers nose for free without repercussions. I would also be against any mechanic that forces the killer to hook given the numerous methods to combat hook attempts, such as pallet saves, flashlight saves, sabotages, breakout and body blocking, various obnoxious boil over strategies, etc, etc.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865138#Comment_3865138
Players should not be forced to bring perks to compensate for poor design.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3865149#Comment_3865149
You aren't getting gen rushed by base kit survivors. That isn't even possible unless you're literally afk.
Tunneling, camping, and slugging are base kit for killers.
I don't wanna start a fight or nothing with you guys, but there is a similar thread in your language here that is confusing...
Tunneling and Slugging are basekit and designed? As in a mechanic built into the killer? This is like saying standing behind a rock and staying out of sight is basekit for survivors... it's not part of the kit, it's a tactic/strategy you use your abilities to employ. This might sound like nit picking, but the distinction here is the difference between actual rules of the game and just players using their basekit mechanics to play within those rules... tunneling and slugging are strategies that come from those mechanics, not mechanics themselves, and the reason they are in the game is because they are not inherently bad/evil ideas in all scenarios to do.
I'm also picking you up cause the phrase "bad design" always bothers me, because it is usually a buzz word people throw around and is often not explained and certainly not valid... what bad design are we talking about exactly?
Tunnelling is a byproduct of the fact the killer can kill a survivor after 3 hooks, and the obviously logical understanding that 3 players is not as strong as 4 players. There is also the logic that healthy survivors have 2 health states, unhooked survivors have 1, which again makes logical sense. Tunnelling isn't something designed into the game, it is a strategy developed by players by intelligently interpreting the rules of the trial. Would it be better if all hook stages were shared by all survivors and everyone only had 1 health state, and being injured/healing only meant the difference between making noise and not? Where one weak player can cost the team all of their hooks really quickly and the killer can kill you off a single chase after bullying the weak link all game? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to tunneling?
Slugging is also not designed into the game, it is a strategy born as a byproduct of logically interpretting that a downed survivor cannot interact with anything until picked up by another survivor and moves much more slowly. Recognising an opportunity to slug, and accounting for the respective risk vs. reward is a strategic gamble on the killers part, where if 2 players are in close proximity where you can reasonably score a hit on both of them, why would you not slug if the opportunity is there to catch 3 survivors at the same time? If you take too long downing the second survivor you can lose the first and spent an additonal 30s+ for still only 1 hook stage. Would it be better if the moment the killer downs a survivor they are automatically forced to walk to the survivor and instantly pick up? Doesn't that require the removal of pallet and flashlight saves completely and reduce the available interactions and skill expression of survivors? What exactly is the "bad design" in regards to slugging?
When it comes to perks countering strategies, couldn't we just as easily say this about any decently strong perk, item or add-on?
E.g. Sprint Burst - Counters the strategy of approaching the gen from the side with the shortest distance to the tile/unspent resources so the survivor has to run to a less safe side. SB however allows the survivor to move fast enough to make it to almost any tile before the killer catches up... Isn't the fact the killer isn't rewarded for playing intelligently here because this perk exists an example of bad design?
Obviously I'm giving an asinine example, but if you're going to say perks shouldn't be used to counter a strategy, you're gonna have to tell me why this stupid example is fine and tunneling/OTR and slugging/Unbreakable isn't.
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I'm not as experienced as a lot of the players here, and I'm not going to claim I know better, because I know I don't... however I can speak as someone who has only played/known modern DBD, in this era where killers are supposedly stronger than ever...
In my experience thus far, which I assume is across low to mid MMR (I doubt I'm high MMR), it's up to survivors how easy they want to make slugging and tunneling. Most of the times I see where killers slug and tunnel, its a direct result of being given a clear opportunity to do it easily by survivors (I run Kindred and Empathy a lot, and its amazing how much you get to see). Survivors often unhook far too quickly and/or at unsafe times, heal in unsafe locations, loop near the hook, loop near priority generators, hang around for flashlight and pallet saves and get caught, don't hide when they are dead on hook.
I am not very gifted mechanically, but I am good at reading games, and I'm a naturally pessimistic player. I expect the worst case scenario of slugging and tunneling, and often will deliberately run somewhere where I'm guaranteed to ensure trying to tunnel and slug is extremely punishing for the killer even if (and sometimes knowing full well) they will catch me. Even against players hard committed to it, I will often identify what is the most punishing thing for that player, and be happy to take a route that is less optimal for my own survival and trade a hook stage for a important gen to be broken or grant the space for a vital team reset...
The main thing I see from survivors now that bugs me, is they tend to say "killer is tunneling/slugging, can't be bothered, go next"... instead of saying "killer is tunneling/slugging, screw you man, I'm gonna punish you as hard as I can for it"... and that really gets under my skin... 😒
A recent idea I've started using, is if a survivor goes to second stage by being camped out... don't unhook them yet, the killer often comes back to cover the transition of the second health stage.… if you unhook afterthey've just turned, thats the free-est tunnel you can gift the killer... they'd be dumb not to take it. Spend 30s doing a gen nearby and then unhook. The killer has to choose between wasting another potential 40s to camp out this player, which is another gen potentially, or leave and allow an unhook. Very useful with Shoulder the Burden.
I look at hook stages as a resource to spend, and whenever I've faced a slugging/tunneling killer, I run them as far away from everything important as I can. I never begrudge the killer doing it, I've been on the receiving end of gen rush, sabo/flashlight squads, and I've been embarrassed at shack, T-L walls and Main buildings plenty of times by insane loopers... and I believe there is a certain amount of you need to be "bad enough" to hold the killers attention at the right time.
The point is I rarely see slugging and tunneling in my games... and I think a large part of it is I force the killer to deal with me or lose something important. Sometimes this backfires and my lack of mechanical skill catches up with me, but I do believe my mindset of "taking one for the team" helps me a lot on survivor in DBD and playing risky with a "you can ignore me if you want, but, it'll cost you" and forcing the killer to make hard decisions serves me quite well.
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Evan MacMillan
Would have to play Dwight cause they share bandages on their legs.
Blast Mine/Chemical Trap - No greater expert in setting traps.
Wicked/Strength in Shadows - The King of Basement would never fear basement, on the contrary, he'd thrive in basement
Wake Up - The only killer who actually has a contingency plan for gate.
Deja Vu - 3 gens are always on Trapper's mind...
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863472#Comment_3863472
Well Dead Dawg Saloon was originally a noose, but they changed it to a broken bottle for reasons of triggering certain players for reasons that should be obvious.
Yeah, it's an undestandable compromise, but still, the broken bottle is a little below par on the offering tier list 😏
Maybe if it was a bottle that was broken by the bullet that went through Quinn's jaw, that would be an offering cooking on gas... but as it stands, it's just a random broken bottle to my knowledge, which is just a bit... meh... 😁
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864684#Comment_3864684
As we said, it does remove clutch plays. These plays, while very satisfying, are not common (sans maybe deliverance [lesser extent wicked] but the 3 of us have only seen it once within 4ish months). Adrenaline example, you would have to pop that gen immediately (lets say immediately is: after the killer wipe animation) after the 3rd goes down and it would have to be just you 2 left alive. If multiple people have that scenario happen often then we're missing out.
…honestly not sure why we're defending this one. Argue just to argue maybe? ehh moving on.
As for more restrictions to your idea, we feel its needed because players will abuse any leeway without a doubt. Could maybe after a minute of the timer is gone, but we see people gonna try to bleed out faster for stupid reason if given half a chance…so we wanna make sure they dont get one.
Yeah, I'm in agreement... the Survivor quit epidemic is nuts atm, giving more tools for it is bad... 😒😒😒
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That would be pretty cool... disarm a trap while Trapper is elsewhere, he becomes more dangerous at loops.
Not a big fan of random haste buffs as a rule, but thematically it makes sense for Trapper.