PalletsAndHooks
PalletsAndHooks
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@JustCats said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1353290#Comment_1353290
The longer the match goes on the more opportunities the killer has to down and hook somebody, yes, but the longer the match goes on the more progress can be made towards the generators - match length doesn't really favor either side.
I understand the temptation to just say "git gud" but that's not really the feedback I'm looking for. I'm average at both killer and survivor, but see these fundamental issues cropping up the better I get. The game works fine - better even - when you're worse at it. The solution isn't to just get pro as these issues are min/max issues and just get worse as you get better.
Yes, tunneling and camping are symptoms of problems with the game design. They are both "too much" of the only thing the killer can do. I didn't say it was boring I said it wasn't varied enough. The best way for a killer to put pressure on the map is to remove survivors. The best way for survivors to complete their objective is to waste the killer's time. The survivor knows the killer has no other options... and so does the killer. Therefore, survivors load up on chase/hook perks and killers start to tunnel and camp more often than they would if they were just "trash" killers.
Time pressure is the only real pressure in this game, after a certain point. Once survivors figure out what they can do and once killers figure out that they only have one thing they can do, it just becomes a race with one side entirely controlling the finish line.
If the response is just that these ideas are not good because I'm bad, then save it. If there's an actual issue with the design idea, I'm all ears.
Agree with everything you said except about camping. Tunneling is abhorrent, but they're the same vein.
Camping is designed to punish Survivors, who believe they are going to spank the Killer with an ez unhook recovery. There is law found in this concept assuming all player skill levels are at least acceptable, if not ideal. Tunneling is an extension of this concept. The game seems to me, to be designed so that the survivor team will almost never fully recover after the first hook, however the means of escape can still be within reach if survivors are working on their objectives or enduring and sharing the burden of the chase.
Only Survivors can empower camping. Only a selfish teammate can allow tunneling. These are laws, not simply actions the community evokes as emotional or skill-based detriments describing a certain playstyle of killer. These incidents usually speak more to the Survivor's inabilities than the Killers lack of skill.
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If they did anything but kill, they wouldn't be killers.
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The only validation you're gonna get in this game is what you make of it. If identity politics are what you get out of a horror game, clearly I am playing the wrong video game.
Its way too convenient that OP left out Freddy Kruger and it's way too convenient that the Devs employ the right kind of marketing.
My sexual preferences were never relevant in Minecraft. How do they help me in a HORROR video game if it isn't ######### or violence?
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@JackHarper141 I'd really appreciate if survivor and killers sexual preferences were not any kind of focus in this game. While you may have some kind of cultured intent in your idea, I don't appreciate being reminded that
Freddy Kruger: 100% pedophile
is a thing.
Not to mention how contentious political cultures are these days, it's better to leave room for your imagination than to spark up unnecessary controversies that could easily result in player exodus en masse.
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This is all way too survivor sided. Sorry, but the devs have these perks better handled in their current form than what I read above.
For the record, I'd literally face camp Everytime if I knew the survivors had any kind of kindred. I want them to to see my killer aura form nose to nose with their friend, so they'll stay on their gens and leave my trophy meat hook.
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@Boss said:
Just another idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70gwoJDQbc&t=13s
Right before passing through the fog, which the red player can't, the red player has a big opportunity to strike from behind resulting in them not passing through the fog and being dealt great, unavoidable damage.
What if that's a thing in Dead by Daylight?
If a Survivor is within 1 or 1.5 meters of the edge of the areas within Exit Gates, tapping (not holding) the main attack button would result in a grab.
Why a grab?
Well just hitting them at that point is kinda useless except for some BP.
And just one thing i'd like to point out: If the other player successfully passes the fog, the red player loses.
Same would be here of course, passing the line would still be a success.
Would this be extremely rare to pull off?
You bet your ass it would be rare.
So why even think of it?
Shits 'n' giggles. 🤷♂️
Killers not only could/should grab in exit zone, but start a DRAGGING ANIMATION with skill checks for both sides...whoever messed up first loses.
If the killer wins, INSTANT AUTOMATIC MORI.
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They've already fixed it up a fair bit. The great walls aren't nearly as bad as they used to be, and some of the fence vaults were removed.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
I think the walls need to take as long as pallets do to be broken for balancing reasons.
However, I do think it could be fun if certain killers could destroy these more quietly (or in a way that appears more sudden) as a result of the Undetectable status. It would take the same overall amount of time to break the wall, but maybe trigger a unique animation where the killer just smashes the wall by walking or bursting through it (a la Jason or the Kool-Aid man).
That closet scene with Michael Myers busting through and attacking Laurie.
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@Mudzkip1221 said:
Please make Azarov's Resting Place more balanced. Gameplay on this map always results in either a gen lock situation or a rough gen patrol with 2 gens on one side of the map and 1 on the other, making the killer tread the whole length of the map to patrol gens, both situations being extremely difficult to resolve. Just changing the entire shape of the map will fix these issues for the most part.
Stop ignoring center gen. That's how you lock yourself up.
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Over half your games are farm? What rank are you?
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@Archosaurus said:
Is anyone else having, or has anyone else had, extreme trouble completing the Dwight the Brave challenge on Level III of the Escalation Tome? As Dwight, you need to hide within 10 meters of the killer for 60 seconds without getting caught.
Firstly, the wording is confusing. Do I need to hide for 60 consecutive seconds, or will it accumulate if I spend shorter lengths of time intermittently hiding near the killer? Does the phrase "without getting caught" mean that if I spent, say, 59 seconds successfully hiding from the killer but then get found that means the time I spent hiding gets cancelled out and I need to hide all over again? How do I even determine whether I'm within 10 meters of the killer?
Secondly, I feel that this challenge is a great example of challenges that require players to go so far outside of normal gameplay it actually becomes detrimental to the match. I've been trying to complete this challenge for several days now, and I don't know how I'm expected to not completely fail my team if I'm trying to hug the killer without him/her spotting me the whole match.
At the very least, I really think the developers should take this into consideration as they design future tomes, but even though it's a little late to be making edits to Escalation Level III it would also be really nice if they could tweak Dwight the Brave to give us a break on it.
It's not a fun archive to do. It costs survivors their games, because 1 guy isn't doing anything else but the archive.
Devs intended this, i suspect cuz they don't care about ranks at all.
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Doors really should have a very slight regression penalty when not being opened. Very slight.
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@elvangulley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1348510#Comment_1348510
Because The whole point is to quickly knock a survivor out of the match because 3-1 is easier than 4-1. The animation is so tame nobody cares them half the time thier obstructed by something anyway.
That'd be the green Moris job anyways. At some point the Ebony Mori is gonna take a little more work, if it's gonna stay the same because it can simply do what green Mori does, but better.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345739#Comment_1345739
I'm going to politely refrain from discussing the Ivory or Ebony mori. Even as someone who pretty actively plays both roles (something I apparently have to mention on these forums to not be auto-disqualified as a "Survivor/Killer Main"), I find both to be very disruptive to standard gameplay.
I don't feel like offerings this strong could ever be balanced in a way that both sides will be okay with.
It's why I think they should instead be flat-out replaced with more perks that bring mori's. Perks can be designed with creative counterplay or constraints to balance them out (like how you have to ditch a different useful perk to bring one of these). Mori's have no counter unless the other role has a direct opposite (like hook spacing, fog, and amount of chests). I personally don't like that any offering could be this powerful on its own merit.
I still like the idea of keeping the Ebony Mori the way it is, but requiring a gen completion or a stun in addition to the current condition of a hook.
Thx tho
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@Golden_spider said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345661#Comment_1345661
Well that doesn't mean you can't suggest buffing/changing a perk to make it more viable or fun, more so you have to consider if buffing one aspect of a perk would make it too strong or oppressive then what possible drawback could you give it to make sure that doesn't happen.
Let's say you buff the SC healing speed from 50% to 75% (32 seconds to 24 seconds), now to make sure it doesn't become too strong from being faster you make it so SC has a limit of 1/2/3 tokens and it loses one every time you fully heal yourself while using SC.
And if the drawback is too strong or too weak you can always adjust it or change it entirely if restricting it that way just doesn't work.
Don't give sc tokens
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@Fixmatchmaking said:
The matchmaking is a horror show in itself. There is no good reason for it, so what is the excuse?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/106/20200511_192133.jpg
Wat are u gonna do when u can't see ranks anymore?
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@APoipleTurtle said:
I like the idea of making the Cypress basekit, been kind of hoping that one mori would be granted to the killer at the end of a match for playing well. Though I personally don't like what the mori offerings bring to the game and would rather see them replaced with more perks that awarded them, I do think there should be a base mechanic for earning one mori in any match.
However, might I suggest making it take effect on the last ACTIVE survivor after the EGC has begun? As in, last survivor not sacrificed, killed, escaped, or struggling on hook (last survivor who has any kind of movement control over their character).
Just streamlines the process so that everyone's time doesn't have to be wasted when the penultimate survivor is struggling and the final survivor has been caught (and both are otherwise doomed). Plus the possibility of this reward only occurring during the EGC would hopefully help to increase killer's incentive to play the hatch game at the end of a winning match. Beat the survivor to the hatch? Congrats, have a mori animation.
For the Ebony, how about 1 possible Mori for each generator completed ?
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@Customapple0 said:
In light of recent events I think that it’s best to remove or change the Smartface cosmetic for the Cannibal. It’s highly inappropriate for a white skin person to be wearing a black face, no matter what context it is in. The same should go for the Cannibal.
My GF said you'd say this. All of this.
Isn't it prejudiced to want to remove content due to race?
In several years, you didn't say anything before?
Are you really championing anything right now or are your feelings miffed about something else?
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An alternative idea for Ebony Moris, is requiring being stunned or blinded by a survivor enough times as the requirement, instead of hooks.
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How to rework keys:
Broken Key: Reduce to 5 seconds. Incorporate conditions that spawn a proposed special new "Green Brittle Key" found exclusively and only within a trial. At the end of the trial, REGARDLESS of any add-ons found with it, or if the key remains unused, should a survivor escape with a Brittle Key, it is guaranteed to break and becomes a Broken Key in your inventory post trial.
Dull Key: Increase to 15 seconds.
Iridescent Key: Keep exactly the same.
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How to rework Moris:
Yellow Mori: Basekit for all killers, 1 possible kill with 0 hooks required on the last survivor remaining
Green Mori: Keep exactly the same, 1 possible kill with 1 hook
Ebony Mori: Can kill everyone, but require 2 hooks per survivor
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1345470#Comment_1345470
Yea, botany knowledge with it makes it really strong. But individually it isn't that good anymore, I wanna see it used more often individually, you know?
It's more of a defense mechanism than a consistent healing mechanism.
Self care is for occasional use, for taking a hit for DoH survivors or incidental issues that don't end with you on the hook.
If you want to be able to heal yourself, consider a healthpack instead of the perk. 32 seconds isn't that long, and in another thread, a pig dev pointed out that it takes a 2nd survivor 16 seconds to heal you anyways. 16 seconds * 2 survivors = 32 seconds.
Self care is equally balanced with normal healing. It does not need a buff, otherwise normal healing would need a buff too.
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Naw self-care is in a good spot. Take botany knowledge if you really want it, but you might as well take a green medkit if you want a better self care.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
The video game had him with a spear as well. They can mix it up with the cosmetics.
I guess they could have him drag the spear. It should change his ability to a self Mori tho.
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@Antimon said:
So the devs said that the killer would be released with his base cosmetic and another one, what do you think it will be?
Hopefully a circle helmet and a square helmet
Legendary skin is a dodecahedron helmet
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@Alice_pbg said:
I would ask why not the guy from silent hill 2 since piramid head is his monster.
But honestly... I don't really care.🤷♂️
Only watched lore videos of silent hill and didn't play them myself.
Yea this was my question. Why not James? Too many licensed male survivors?
That's sexist af, BHVR.
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You should Mori every trial. Green Moris are invaluable, but yellow really should be base kit.
Save your Ebony for sweaty swf red ranks. That's what red offerings are for.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
For survivor: alert and empathy. everyone uses bond or kindred while ignoring these two amazing perks :(
For killer: dark devotion, its amazing for sneaking up on survivors since no one excpects it
Furtive Chase or M&A, but combined with Beast of Prey.
Huntress peekaboo is whack a mole.
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@joshuashep22 said:
It doesn't make sense as it's supposed to activate while injured but doesn't work while you need to mend but dead hard works while "injured" even while you have to mend so what is the excuse for this?
It comes down to the health states. 0 is dying, 1 is injured and 2 is healthy.
They decided to squeeze in 0.5 somehow, because of legion. Legion was never really "fixed" because deep wounds was never really complete.
IMO: Deep Wounds should've tapped into your Dying State health bar. It should have benefitted from Unbreakable's recovery rate in addition to healthpacks and self care. It was never supposed to be an extra health state, but rather another way of permutating your health state to the Dying State. I'm guessing it was technically challenging to put out a proper deep wounds / endurance mechanic. Deep Wounds should continue to bleed even during chase, that was one of the most important nerfs that devalued Legions ability immediately. The Deep Wounds state we have now is totally survivor favored, in that if the legion or syptic killer fails to hook anyone, generators have only been momentarily stalled, whereas with the hooked the deeply wounded then the generators are still only momentarily stalled with seconds added to the killers "kill clock". In order for the killer to change this ultimately into the killers favor, the killer must cumulatively stack multiple instances of deep wound hooks to accrue the necessary advantage against time. Deep Wounds is a silly means of snowballing. I'd rather see people bleed out more. I'd rather see old legion revisited to some extent. Otherwise we end up with the not really an additional health state that takes up an additional health state that we have now.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
what the ######### is wrong with you
Ur using frenzy on someone who is already injured ######### is wrong with you?
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Camping is always fun, as killer or survivor. Don't let anyone else convince you otherwise.
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Thank you. I believe every killer player probably has set of rules they keep, depending on the killer they play that trial, the survivors characters, and of course the survivors behaviours and other factors.
As a survivor, I'm often enough granted a hatch escape by various killers that downed me, in which they later tell me that they simply enjoyed playing with me. That tells me Killers just wanna have fun. But they take their job pretty srsly.
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Naw windows aren't broken. It looks to me like your perception of what's occurring isn't going to be what we'd actually see on the killers perspective.
Also keep in mind that the capsule shaped survivor hugbox is slightly behind the survivor, so that third picture appears to me to indicate a possible successful hit on the killers and servers perspective, but maybe ur computer has drawn it all out just about 100 ms behind or even less. A tenth of a second is a different plot point, that could align your perspective of the killer in a seemingly irregular location.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343325#Comment_1343325
Problem is that Amanda is 107lbs (listed) whilst Hoffman is an absolute unit. It would be hard for him hide in the long grass etc.
I wasn't so much a fan of 3/4/5...but I have a soft spot for 6/7...there's another unpopular opinion right there 😂
Yea true amanda pig is supposed to be much smaller than fatty pig, however I see that being incorporated into his skin design somewhat.
Amanda pig has a certain height that can be awkwardly matched with more fatty pig stooping, but there's obvious limitations. The girth cannot be helped as Amanda pig is very smol in overall thiccness and fatty pig is fat daddy fatty thicc. The crouch is much more difficult to awkwardly stoop in, so I think if there would be a legendary Hoffman skin, the contrast in size and shape would be of greater disparity than the FJSJ legion skins.
But they could still add him as a skin without the hokey pokey stooping, and simply compromise by giving him anything but a bright red coat. He could have stealthy colors and be larger without it being a big deal to most players, amirite?
Or simply add him as a new killer entirely, call him The Pigg with two G's so nobody gets confused as to how thicc of a pigg they need to play.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343323#Comment_1343323
Speaking of deja vu, the perk Deja Vu is one of the most underrated perks, and should be used more often.
It is the least valuable perk in the entire game in terms of ability, but it is not without purpose. Anyone with a map benefits right at the start of the trial, and the perks intent is to help you directly alter the state of late game by determining if your team conquers center gens or not.
There is likely a change in how a survivor would play upon the reveal of that immediate information. A survivor who knows the center gen location versus an experienced survivor who approximates that location are two totally different scenario with different spectrums of possible outcomes during late game.
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@yandere777 said:
Not bait, i genuinely think DS is fine how it is. Well only if people stop looking at it as an anti tunnel perk.
Remember old DS? It was a literal get out of jail free card. Everyone wanted it nerfed or reworked. Because it had like no actual requirements it was nerfed several times. But the perk stood the same though, it was only given stricter conditions. Also not to mention people could have done everything new DS is doing right now with old DS but better. They just always used it immediately like potatos.
New DS IS old DS but with a strict condition of being unhooked and 60 seconds. Within those 60 seconds you can do exactly what old DS can, but more efficiently.
New DS just allows survivors to use it in smarter ways because it only made it impossible of doing the dumb move by using it on your first down
DS is fine.
If it was reworked, the timer would simply be removed but it would deactivate if another survivor is hooked while your DS is activated.
But it really doesn't need anything, esp with Pyramid Head around the corner.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343189#Comment_1343189
Hoffman! Hoffman! Hoffman! 😃😃😃
I'd be cool with legendary Hoffman skin. Idk, the fat cop pig profile was silly to me. I enjoyed 123 more than 456+7.
It'd be cool to see and hear the boop of Hoffman's snoot. I think that'd help convince me.
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Camping is 100% intended gameplay. Dbd = camping and camping = dbd. If you don't like it, you should try another video game, seriously.
When I first started playing this game, many many game hours ago, this forum had complaints about how toxic Looping is.
Putting that into perspective, it's really clear to me that other players like OP need to better understand what they sign up for before committing time and skill into a game like this, which is primarily comprised of hiding, seeking, camping, tunneling, genrushing, and bodyblocking.
Personally, I hate bodyblocking between survivors. Makes no sense that I can't shove past a toxic survivor trying to hold me for the Killer.
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Identifying the one red rank in a given trial and camping him into a depip.
Gets me every time.
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@Erk said:
So, this is pretty common. A killer camps a survivor so he can guarantee at least 1 kill. I thought this was not wrong and I got camped like this quite a lot. I still thought this was OK since the killer doesn't want to depip, which makes sense. Then I watched an Otzdarva video in which he played Wraith. All the gens were done and he had 1 person on hook. Instead of camping, he continued playing normally and because of that, he got a 4K. This really changed my mind. I don't think camping for 1k isn't wrong but if you do it, you might just waste a 4K.
Camping happens when survivors allow it. It is literally 100% in the control of the survivors. Otz plays in higher ranks, where sweaty swf confidently believe they're going to all escape together and teabag the killer.
The harder the survivors try to root out the camp, the easier it is for the killer to roast hotdogs and smores on a hook
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Any Means Necessary
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Ooh and you can break chase by moonwalking! Not too shabby if you want to build tokens mid chase!
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@jamako said:
Hey guys,
on the occasion of PWYF being on the shrine (I just bought it) I was wondering a few things.
Which killer is it fun on? What counts as a special attack? Is it just a fun-to-use only perk or are there viable builds around it? Since I don't have the AC killers I lack some of the perks so I probably couldn't use most builds around obsessions.
It would have to be a killer with abilities that aren't all attacks or special attacks so i was thinking trapper?
Any other suggestions?
Furtive is the poor man's Nemesis, but both work very well with PWYF for the clear necessity of maintaining an obsession between multiple survivors.
With furtive, you can empower your camp and tunnel game like no other, allowing you to down the unhooked while your new obsession rescuer runs away. You'll usually down the victim before PWYF price, as long as you laid eyes on the rescuer briefly before pursuing the hook. However, you must be careful not to kill the obsession, as you can only change obsessions with an unhook.
With nemesis, you can empower your chases greatly. Usually, you'll see the survivor stunning you, sometimes even if it's from the locker. That 5% boost really makes up for the lost time, and if you want to stretch for enduring, it will make you so sticky, the survivor may become frustrated with your endless pursuit. Unlike Furtive, Nemesis can reinstate a new obsession even if you've killed off your previous obsession! The option to recirculate the obsession after the obsession was killed is what makes Nemesis a far superior perk to combine with PWYF.
As far as killers that enjoy this setup, really any chase heavy killers. Huntress enjoys the extra 5% although quickly spends her tokens on thrown hatchets. Deathslinger can shoot his gun and it won't spend the token until he M1. Bubba is a monster with obsession perks and 3 tokens of PWYF makes him impossible to escape. Any of those kinds of killers that struggle to chase.
Neither Billy or Trapper or even Wraith really don't *need* it. Trapper may be slow, but his traps don't need to move very fast at all, and the other 2 already have significant speed boosts in their base kit.
Freddy, Demo, even Nurse might pass on these as they have alot of mobility.
Spirit is braindeadplay, no perks or braincells required. As an irrelevant reminder, Spirits mind games include standing still, literally doing nothing. So she doesn't need things like perks to help her not move around. Man, I hate Spirits kit.
Lastly, I want to point out how much fun the movement speed is on ghost face and Michael Myers, especially tier one Mikey. It's alot of fun, but not for red ranking.
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Also, proxy camping is valid and encouraged among the Killer community and colleagues
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You shut your ######### mouth.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/160115/no-integrity
If it’s any consolation, there ARE killers that won’t do this and WILL punish the jerk attempting to rat out teammates.
This.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
I just think this whole spotlight was done earlier than the ptb. It also says tot causes oblivious not broken which is old.
Yea the captions in the video are different than the voice too
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1341049#Comment_1341049
The only scenario I see Enduring being useful is when it's ran with Spirit Fury. Perks shouldn't be designed so they're only usable with another perk.
Naw, that's just convenient. You don't need Spirit Fury to run Enduring, because enduring is a really great perk.
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Just post the answer sheet already
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The whole "hostage" concept is preposterous. And it's the devs that are usually responsible for holding anyone hostage. With all the contingencies in place, survivors won't usually be responsible for hostage situations, even the one described above, because the Killer's skill be taken into account every time. I dont think killers can hold hostage anymore, as EGC is a thing
Survivors will go back to tapping gens, like in yesteryears passed, to avoid the technical standstill. Killer will still be obligated to find the survivor, and whiny players on both sides will keep crying to devs/mods whoever they can. Indefinite games last only as long as anyone doesn't make a mistake. What I mean is, any trial that takes more than 20 minutes to complete is a result of accumulating situational elements manufactured by both sides. Examples include:
Could've downed the hook rescuer too, but simply didn't
The survivor blew too many skill checks
Chase, but no patrol
"Haha killer used Noed" and other totem removal failures
Standing by the pallet
Not looping the pallet
Not dropping the pallet
Not breaking the pallet
Not picking up the pallet
Healing before gens
Cleansing immediately
Corruption pool immediately
Dropping a survivor to chase another survivor
These things all stack up into 2v1 twenty plus minute games, and all you have to do is admit you didn't plan ahead. As stupid of a perk as it could be, Deja Vu tells you exactly which 3 generators you're supposed to work on first.
I don't consider 3v1 or 4v1 to be hostage worthy in any sense of discussion, because if the killer can't one of four other players during a 3-gen, there's clearly other issues present.
To suggest that survivors can hold the game hostage is to assume the survivors can control the killer to the point of rendering the Killer's ability completely useless, irrespective of the killer players skill. You gotta be hacking, glitching, or something that isn't normally and consistently found in the game to be able to set up the conditions to make the trial's closure impossible.
What if a generator spawns in an impossible location? That's the devs holding the survivors hostage, also there's other generators
What if a survivor falls through the floor? That's incidental hostage negotiations at best, but it's not like anyone knows a consistent location this happens, and there's a chance the survivor gets stuck. Maybe the survivor didn't intend to fall thru and get stuck. EGC responds if it's just one survivor otherwise the devs have taken multiple hostages inside the hill
What if the killer is stuck inside a pallet? Devs holding killer hostage, unless a survivor has Any Means Necessary, in which case it is specifically that singular survivor holding the killer hostage.
How about locker glitches? Still the devs.
Okay, but what happens when the killer/survivors intentionally do any of these things? The devs will probably add a special Key/Mori for these situations, because.
Totally preposterous.