GlamourousLeviathan
GlamourousLeviathan
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- GlamourousLeviathan
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@FrenziedRoach said:
There are those who think they are gamers, then there are old gamers like myself who just looks at it as another list of challenges I've faced in a long list of challenges I've stepped up to in my decades of gaming.
But... I also enjoy games like Dark Souls, so I might just be a masochist.
Nah man, I completed all Dark Souls and Bloodborne and I can't stand DbD toxic survivors. Even LoL players are more chill than DbDs.
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Killers: Doctor, Hag, Twins, Spirit, Plague, Pig, Nightmare, Demogorgon, Executioner and Clown.
Survivors: Felix, David, Jane, Quentin, Yun-Jin, Tapp, Adam, Bill, Feng and Ace.
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I actually prefer using Thanatophobia, but I really like using Dying Light sometimes.
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@ttvbardberd said:
I think he fits the game nicely.
Almost everyone I've talked to thinks that the character is either the creepiest or funniest character that they've seen, and that's a good thing.
Sure doctor is another creepy psycho, but the effects on his laugh don't hit the same way that Tricksters do.
His running can either be seen as SO FUNNY, or literally so strange that it becomes insanely scary.
The clothes and his appearance match his story, he is literally someone who is obsessed with the attention and fame that he gets, to the point that he literally only kills people he has a connection with.
His power will be buffed, he deffo needs to be more powerful than he is, and BHVR will figure out a way to do it.
The people hating this character are the people who aren't willing to see change and just want everything to stay the same. Sorry bucko, but life moves forward and isn't static. I ######### love how they've been more inclusive to the K-pop and LGBTQ+(my) community, and if it brings in more new players for me to slaughter as a hag main then I will take it.
Personally, I would prefer BHVR to listen to the community more and take community oriented ideas and implement those to some capacity. Seeing ideas like The Scarecrow or The Knight and stuff are really interesting and original ideas.
At the end of the day, the people who always complain about whatever BHVR adds can do one, they're never going to listen to you and you gotta find a new hobby rather than shitting on this game constantly.
I kind of agree that making a funny horror character can be different in a good way. My problem is that after some months, the joke will get old and I reckon that he won't feel so natural anymore. I mean, as I see, he is a mix between comedy and hotness. His attitude is funny, his laugh is kinda sexy tbh and his power is extremely extra. Do I feel like he is scaring? Definitely not, and after some time this will start to feel really weird, especially after other subsequent releases. I wouldn't feel so bad if he got a cosmetic like the Halloween Ghostface and Legion, so I can't be too harsh about him in the first moment. I just think that it would be a really nice thing to do to give this cosmetic for free, since you are already paying for a DLC, a Killer extends beyond its design and I am definitely not the only one that feels that way.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
He doesn't fit in with the theme of the game. His sounds, animations, design, power, and music don't fit well with dbd. But that's my opinion, I'm allowed to have my opinion and you're allowed to have yours. Don't tell me that "my arguements don't make sense" because we're not trying to argue anything. We're giving opinions.
It's a bold design choice and i get that they were trying going for humor instead of creepiness, but it was obvious that it would please everyone. I think that they should give players a free cosmetic that made him a real scary killer so everyone could be happy. After all, some people may like his gameplay but don't want to buy the chapter and play as a character they don't see fit. I think it would be only fair since you are already spending some dollars.
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For the first question, I will just remind you of their last release, The Twins. Charlotte looks like a normal person on the head, but when you look down you can see a gruesome open wound on her chest with Victor in it. It's straight up body horror in a way that gives you at least a unsettling feeling if you are not scared. From the moment you see Charlotte, you know that you should avoid her. The Trickster? Well, if I take him out of context, I would be sure that he was a character from a yandere type of romance manga.
His base clothes are flashy indeed, and you may argue that there are a lot of flashy killer clothes in the store but none of them are from the killer's base wardrobe so this make The Trickster the first killer to be so bright colored at their normal state.
Also, I think that you can pretty much see by his animations, from mori to walking, that he wasn't really taken seriously as a horror villain. He looks so goofy that he seems taken out of a parody movie or a comedy special of all things, which is fine since comedy and horror have walked together for a long time.
I would really be raising an eyebrow if a DbD developer came and said that they made The Trickster to be threatening as their last releases in the first place. For me, I see him as more of a joke than something that should be taken seriously.
I like his gameplay tho. He seems weak but fun at the same time. Nothing that a beefy buff cannot solve.
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I get it that hooks are healthier for the game but getting kills is more satisfactory. I wouldn't feel happy about my performance if I get 8 hooks an no one dies.
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@pseudechis said:
Feels more like "K-pop is popular lets mash that into DBD".
When I think horror I don't think K-pop.
Even with the stylized psycho attempt at justfying his inclusion it still feels out of place.
His pouty duck face glamour shot potrait is kind of jarring in between all these great looking horror icons and ideas.
Everything about him is just kind of jarringly out of place, his awkward run animation, his pink glow bat with a blade in it because hey why not, I'm kinda dreading the eventual up tempo poppy menu and chase music.
To quote family guy "These are Korean Tacos 'cause, whatever the hell nowadays" It kind of feels like that.
I really think that if they wanted to make a Korean celebrity killer they could have done it in another way to make it seem more serious somehow, and I really do believe that the design team has the sensibility to know if their work is gonna be taken seriously or not. They just released The Twins and I think that it was absolutely genius design. So for me it seems really weird that they would release The Trickster and hope that it wouldn't become a comedy killer.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
What do you mean by "Explicit Horror Theme"?
Also, you say he isn't a "horror villain". American Psycho, Perfect Blue and Silence of the Lambs (to name a few) show this is actually an incorrect statement and a poor stance to take. Edit: He's also a dead ringer for a reference to Ichi the Killer.
When I said he isn't an "Explicit Horror Theme" I was referring to the fact you can't exactly identify if he is supposed to be the killer or not. Let's take Deathslinger and Legion for example since they are the most human-like killers. If you take Deathslinger in a DbD match contest, you immediately identify that he should be one to be feared as, although human, he definitely doesn't look like the survivors for his old cowboy clothing, for his broken jaw and his malicious expression. The same can be applied to legion to some extent because all of them are wearing a mask that is supposed to be creepy and use clothes that give a "don't want to be seen doing mischief" kind of style.
If I take The Trickster out of context, I wouldn't really be able to identify if he is supposed to be threatening or if he is a yaoi character. Even if you compare him to those horror villains that are made to make you fear your everyday neighbor, The Trickster ends up being so flashy that it fails to pass this feeling as he is such a distant figure from a normal citizen reality. Silence of the Lambs for example thrives on the possibility that the Average Joe can be a psychopath, but The Trickster is not a normal person and doesn't transmit that. And, as I said, it is not only his physical appearance that gives a comedy vibes, as his animations are goofy and his power is so extra that it ends up being funny. That's why I came to the conclusion that he was supposed to be a parody.
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It hurts to say this but Blight. There is nothing specifically remarkable about his kit so normally I just forget he exists.
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This beast of prey is still going to be useless. First, 40 seconds in a single chase still use too much. When you are playing killer, you simply don't want to spend more than 30 seconds in a chase unless you are already in a really good position. Second, you can't make killer perks that use the Active Ability button, since so many killers have powers that use it and this would result in a conflict of commands.
About Overcharge, I think it's okay as it is. Is not a mainstream gen defence perk but is still neat in some way.
Other than that, I'm ok with the other perks
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860739#Comment_1860739
No, he is correct. If you make survivor harder killer does become easier. That is how it works.
Also your hypothetical situation actually exists right now in the sense that survivors do need looping skills to win. While it's certainly possible to get carried by one amazing teammate in this game, odds are that doesn't happen unless you're in a solid SWF. Survivor teams where 3 of the people can't loop lose pretty fast. And that's a lot more common than you seem to think. Right now, a survivor will get into a chase at least once with the killer in most games. It's exceedingly rare that one person carries the entire game for the other three survivors.
Making gens 3x longer doesn't change that.
Further, right now the game is going in the opposite direction you are proposing. The game used to have more leeway for survivors to win with stronger maps that are easier for them to win in. It's slowly been modified to the balance we have today where safe palettes are exceedingly scarce, god windows no longer exist and basically it's much fairer to the killer now compared to how it used to be. BHVR chose to rework the maps and adjust balance difficulty and make other things take longer instead of adjusting gen times. They are absolutely never going to adjust gen times.
Which DbD you are playing? Playing survivor in a optimal SWF takes literally no skill. The only thing you have to do is hold M1 on a gen and hide whenever your friend with OoO says to do so, I know perfectly how it works. It is baffling the quantity of bad survivors who get to red ranks carried by SWF groups. I have already seen survivors who don't even try to loop and simply run in a straight line reaching rank 1 by simply being carried by friends. Survivor is completely braindead role in SWF and may also be in solo queue if you just play to escape. Making survivor harder doesn't necessarily mean to nerf survivor, but just guarantee that survivors would have to have a little bit of skill to get the escape.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1860775#Comment_1860775
He says nothing about taunting. He wants the action to feel satisfying and the action has a few uses.
Are you serious? You have to be completely ignorant about your community to not know how teabagging is tied to unsportsmanlike conduct. It's like stating "oh, saying EZ on the endgame chat is ok you know, EZ can be an acronym for Extreme Zooming or something".
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I found baffling how Pop got it's time nerfed but DS no. PGTW is an active perk, which means that for you to make use of it, you have to do something specifical that you would not prioritize in other circumstances. Now, when you have Pop, you have to stop everything you are doing to get some benefit from it. While DS is a passive perk which activates everytime you get unhooked so it should take less time to expire since you have to put no effort in using it.
Like, come on devs, think . You just need to think. It's not hard. Do they know how to think?
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I really have no problem of teabagging being a thing, but a dev just saying that is basically raising a flag saying that is not only ok to taunt other people in a toxic way but is also encouraged.
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I mean, when I play killer I always have a mental countdown of how many times each survivor has been hooked, so this hook count was redundant and omitting how many times the survivor has been hooked to the killer is simply redundant. I mean, if you really have memory issues, you could simply play the game with a notepad at your side. It really makes no sense hiding something that is that easy to count.
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I wouldn't say this update made Clown worse or gave him an useless tool. The antidote should be useful for antiloop but the thing is: Clown already has a decent antiloop. What always made Clown a weak killer is the lack of any kind of map pressure. You could argue that having more speed would help him cross the map faster, but I say is almost insignificant. 10% extra ms is two stacks of Play With Your Food which kinda of helps in a chase but when you are crossing a map like Mother's Dwelling it doesn't help much. This update helps but wasn't what Clown needed. He may go from F tier to C tier, but it still far away from being viable at the highest level. We will see when it comes live.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1857395#Comment_1857395
How new are you that you think rank matters?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1857397#Comment_1857397
By definition if you make survivor harder killer becomes easier. That's how a system with two opposing forces works.
Not necessarily. Let's create an imaginary situation. Let's say that gens now take 3x longer to be completed but there are much more good mindgameable loops on the maps. Every survivor would have to learn how to loop effectively, since relying on only one teammate wouldn't be viable and also wasting the killer time would be essential so the other survivors can do gens. In this hypothetical world, once per game every survivor would be required to at least be chased by the killer once. Doing gens doesn't require any skill at all, and in this situation, what would be the requirement to escape would be looping which means that you are changing the required skill of the survivor role to be focused on something that actually require skills.
Just to be clear, I am not saying to gens to take 3x longer. This is simply an example to argue that is possible to make survivors rely more on skill without nerfing the overall role.
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@Weeb_H_Toast said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1857391#Comment_1857391
I didn't say "buff killers" meathead. I want survivor to be harder, actually challenging. Sitting on gens is boring, most killers are either an ez win, or a quick loss, and are mostly the former.
Everyone has been saying to give survivors a secondary objective. People don't realize that having a secondary objective contributes to the game's fun since holding M1 on a gen is simply boring. I agree that increasing gen speed isn't the way to balance the game since it would just make the game boring. Then, everyone just started using ruin undying, which gives survivors an optional secondary objective that, when completed, increases your chance of surviving. But no, guess survivors like to simply hold M1 on a gen for an entire game and escape without doing much.
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I really do believe that they would be A tier if it wasn't for the fact that they are basically forced to slug and for how much lockers counters them.
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I really hope they enhance the illusion and blurring aspect of his bottle. Survivors hit by the gas could start to see Clown's clones coming at them from different directions, a bit like Doctor but stronger.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852974#Comment_1852974
Why is Oni so low in the list?
He is one of the only 3 killers which need to do something in order to reach the full potential of it's power, along Myers and Plague. Killer with such powers are too slow for the meta game fast gens. Myers, imo, is the weakest killer in the game, while Plague doesn't suffer so much from being this type of killer since she already has a part of her power while she doesn't ingest corrup purge.
And then there is Oni. The process of aquiring his power is much less problematic than Myers, since he has to hit survivors which contributes to his overall objective. The problem with him is that he has so much counterplay and also is very map dependent. Survivors who know how to play againt Oni will just play extremely safe in order to deny his first hit, whether by playing stealthy or by putting pallets early. Considering that he needs basically two hits in order to gain his power, even though a survivor mess up and gets hit, that doesn't mean that he will receive blood fury. Unlike Plague, Oni doesn't have a secondary power to compensate for his main power build up. Against optimal survivors, he will be losing far too many gens by the time he finally gets enough blood, since just chasing as a M1 killer consumes a lot of time specially if the survivors play safe and the map has many pallets.
But when he gets his power? Oni basically becomes a better version of Billy, but only for a short period of time. However, even in this form he still have big counterplays. First, his power is not that good against many of the common loops and jungle gyms and indoor maps such as Lery's have so many dead angles that survivors can simply abuse it and outmaneuver him. Not only that, but they can also play immersed until his power runs out. Infectious Fright may help him in that, but it is such a common pick for Oni that survivors that are used to Oni will expect it and play outside it's range while he is chasing another person. Yes, he has a good mobility which helps him pressure gens, but since it's only for a short period of time this doesn't last for long in order to keep gens in check at all time. Then, when his power finally runs out, survivors can just do gens all over again having to deal with a siple M1 killer.
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Nah, I am a Doctor main and I can really say that his lack of mobility hurts him a lot. If survivors just hold foward or he is placed in a really big map Doctor is going to lose much time just going back and forth.
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Here is my list, cuz why not?
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@freddymybae said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852871#Comment_1852871
this i would love a casual mode to just sit back relax try new strats new killers etc
Yes man. This game REALLY needs a casual mode. It's just ridiculous that you can bring a key or a iri head in a ranked match an pip just because you are using OP stuff. Also, people, specially killers, need somewhere to practice high skilled characters. No wonder Nurse has the worst kill rate of the game, since people who don't play her try her once to get a daily or maybe to play something different without much skill. This not only discourages trying new things but also promotes deranking, which is a feeling that you do not want in a game.
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@MadLordJack said:
So you're trying to call out people whom you are denying of a trial then killing by abusing NOED in exactly the worst way it can be abused, all of which you are doing because you want to bully - oh, I'm so sorry, slip of the tongue - you want to get matched against people of lower skill so you can have an easier time killing them.
Yes. Clearly you are the victim.
This is such an one diomensional way to look into things. To think he just want to derank to bully lower level players is just you assuming things. He may simply want to practice a difficult killer, such as Nurse, Blight or Spirit. Maybe the killer that he want to play as don't have good perks to be able to win at high ranks. This game doesn't have a practice mode, neither a non ranking game mode for these purposes. Getting stomped by high level players as Nurse for example is not going to teach you anything, either because gens would go too fast so you wouldn't get time to use her power, or jumping into more experienced players at once will have you skip the basics. Also, it's not very encouraging losing every game because you are testing a new killer, while survivors don't have such a problem because every survivor works the same.
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@freddymybae said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852770#Comment_1852770
people always look suprised when u bring hope
But they noticed it that I brought Devour and Haunted... Also, I didn't even reach the endgame to the hypothetical NOED to be active. They just assumed that I had NOED. It is like an automatic excuse that survivors use when they lose. "Oh, you got a 4k because of NOED, bad killa."
Honestly, I don't even know why survivors fear NOED that much. Imo, it is a mediocre perk at best. When I am playing killer, the last thing I want is to the game to reach the endgame, because there is simply a free escape, so I would rather make builds that try to avoid getting all gens completed. Even if I used NOED, survivors could just do bones and I would get no value from it, not even to metion that NOED normally only works when the survivors play altruistic, trying to go for saves and hook trades at the endgame instead of just leaving, so I rather not rely on it to begin with.
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Survivors shamed me for using NOED... And I wasn't even using NOED at all. I was a mere Deathslinger with Devour Hope, Haunted Grounds, Dead Man's Switch and Pop Goes The Weasel.
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Ruin and undying are the perfect fix for extreme gen speed. It gives a side objective and reduces gen speed without making the survivor hold M1 on a gen forever. If I were a dev, I would make this combo base kit already and balance the game around it.
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I hardly give the hatch to any survivors. The only survivors who can enter my mercy list are Felix and David, since they are cute. However, if they teabag and flash-click then no hatch for them, they have to behave >:(
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This cage despawn mechanic exists because PH could bodyblock the hook save, not because to prevent him from camping.
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Betrayal - When there are only two survivors left in the trial, with you being one them, this perk becomes active. When healing the other injured survivor, press Active Ability button to put the survivor on the dying state. This survivor will have their aura revealed to the killer for the next 30 seconds. After using this perk, you will start sprinting at 150% of your normal speed and also leave no scratch marks behind for 3/4/5 seconds. If the other survivor is sacrificed, they will gain 100% more Bloodpoints for actions in the Altruism Category.
I have already posted this perk on another chapter idea, but I really like this design.
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@Artick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840052#Comment_1840052
Rotten Fields, the map with 7 pallets?
Source? Also, it's not necessarily the number of pallets that makes a map strong, as there is other factors that come in place, such as how safe the loops are, how big the map it's, etc.
Solo, this data is kinda old, but I have reasons to bring it up. First, the devs haven't show the kill rates on maps recently, so this is the best we've got. Second, the safest maps haven't been reworked since then, so it's likely that their issues are still existing today. As we can see, the worst map for killer at that time was Rotten Fields, followed by Fractured Cowshed and then Haddonfield.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840052#Comment_1840052
As deathslinger I can't ######### see anything oh rotten fields and all the other farm maps pretty much.
At least I can say about something remarkable about the other Cooldwind Farms. Rotten Fields is just corn with infinite god loops. I wouldn't put your expectations high on it's rework tho. People say that the next killer will probably be a licensed one and if it is, I think that BHVR will release a new map instead of doing another rework. Just my speculation tho.
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To be honest, as a killer main, Thompson's House is the least problematic of the Coldwind bunch. On the other hand Rotten Fields for me is simply the worst map on the game, only followed by Fractured Cowshed. These maps are disgusting. It's jungle gym after jungle gym after god pallet after cow loop after shack after jungle gym... Not even talking about the bliding corn tho.
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With a key, you can simply escape having 2 gens left to do. Considering opening the gates as another objective, you are basically removing half of the survivor's objective with a single item. This is stupid.
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Demogorgon is fine. The only change I want from him is making his footsteps more quiet.
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I want so bad a 2v8 mode. I want to play DbD with a friend but I only play killer.
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A while ago, Rotten Fields was the map with the worst kill rate for killer and considering it didn't got reworked since then... That map is disgusting. Weird seeing Torment Creek here tho, it is the second least problematic map from the Cooldwind bunch.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1809137#Comment_1809137
Nah that it way too long. The devs said themselves that they didn't make the lockler block mechanic so it would be a guaranteed grab, they want to have it so the survivor still have a chance of escaping but still let the killer have a chance to get a grab.
But that's simply stupid. Lockers were designed essentially to be a high risk high reward stealth mechanic so if you get caught in a locker, you should instantly go down, no wonder there are so many of them in every map as it should always be an available resource for survivors who are desperate to hide. Using lockers as a defensive mechanism on a chase is simply absurd. If you know you are going down againt Victor, there is literally no reason to don't hop in a locker before it downs you. If Cahrlotte is far away, you get a free escape and even if you get caught, you are breaking their momentum and avoiding Victor to go on a rampage. It just wrong using lockers as a secure way to get away from a killer. If you are using a locker in a chase, you should 100% get caught because you are using it in the way it is not supposed to work.
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@Healthore77992 said:
1. Make Charlotte faster when she isn't carrying Victor (5%)
2. Victor shouldn't be destroyed after successfull hit
3. Recall should be 20 seconds
4. If person is carrying Victor you should be able to see their aura
Also, increase the time Victor blocks the locker to 30 seconds.
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@EuphoricBliss35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1807017#Comment_1807017
Guess you’ll have to learn a NEW way to play them. Darn
A new way that is unviable such as 80% of the killers? Ok, sure.
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@EuphoricBliss35 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1806077#Comment_1806077
I guess you’ll have to tune in to your favorite streamer to learn how to play them then 🤷♀️
Did you even read what I've written? This is simply a nerf to the Twins and not a slight nerf, they are butchering them. It is not a matter of learning how to play a killer if the strategy to counter them is simply unfair.
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This Victor update is so bad. 10 seconds is nothing considering that most of the chases you are going to be using Victor from the other side of the map. Not only that, but it simply conflicts with the Twins playstyle. Everyone has been just unbinding Victor and letting him go on a rampage, only returning to Charlotte when her brother gets crushed or attached to someone. People do this to avoid the ridiculously slow process of going from point A to B to grab and hook the survivor. Having Victor hold the locker instead of hitting the survivor inside of it just breaks the entire momentum. This makes entering a locker a viable strategy to counter the Twins which is simply absurd. Lockers should be used as high risk high reward stealth not as straight up protection from a chase.
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@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805586#Comment_1805586
- No they don't require far more work. Tweak hatch so it only spawns when A) one survivor is left, and B) when all gens are completed. Boom, keys fixed.
- Perspective. 3 survivors can escape with a key without finishing their objective.
- KEYS ARE FAR MORE COMMON THAN MORI'S. I RARELY run into mori's as survivor, where as there's a key nearly every lobby these days as killer.
- They are directly related - both can unfairly end the game prematurely.
Unfortunately, people fail to realize that they are both equally as annoying simply because they cut 1/3 of each side's objectives. As a killer, you have to perform 12 chases in order to get a 4k, with a mori it's just 8 chases. As a survivor you need to repair 5 generators and power up the exit gates which is 6 objectives at total. With a key, you may ignore even 3 of these objectives, thats half of the survivor's total objectives.
Also, survivors can find a key in a chest, making them even more common.
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When I see a key I just lobby dodge and I am going to continue doing so so this doesn't effect me as much. But I get people that are upset beacuse of this, maybe they don't like to wait for numerous lobbys or they just don't have Franklin's. Anyway, it is just another way that the devs have shown their bias towards survivors.
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Ironically, I have been thinking of a Bloodborne boss as killer just yesterday.
About the options, I think that the Capra Demon would be the best one since it looks creepy and doesn't have superpowers that would look strange in the DbD format.However, considering other options of bosses, Pinwheel would be decent tbh. He has a creepy backstory behind it, looks mysterious and doesn't have over the top powers.
Another option, which I think would be the best one, is Gwyndolin. In game, he could have a disgusting design that he got after getting eaten by Aldrich which would perfectly fit DbD. You could even write a lore about him that when Aldrich got defeated his remains got kidnapped by the Entity.
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The Cooldwind bunch has always been the bane of my existence since the release of the game. I've been patiently waiting for the full rework of these maps since then.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
I wish we’d stop behaving like slugging is this big problem. It’s an intentional part of the game. If the killer chooses to slug instead of hook to create pressure, that’s their prerogative.
It should be hugely apparent at this point, with how easily Victor can down injured survivors, that it should be prioritised to heal wherever possible.
If the killer deliberately decides to slug because it is their playstyle I have nothing against it. My problem with the Twins is that they are basically forced to slug because they are so slow to go for 12 hooks. My suggestion doesn't make slug unviable for them but instead gives them a small buff so they can have other strats.