You think the Twins are good or bad?

WishIcouldmain

They are perhaps one of the most debated killers. Some say they're great some say they're hot trash? What do you think?

AggressiveFTW

They are like Legion. They are only good if there are multiple survivors together on gens, otherwise, they don't get any value out of their power. The Twins, however, gets their max potential if they slug, so in order to get a successful slug, multiple survivors need to be in the same area.

OBX

It just seems like the folks who came up with and designed the twins don’t have any real understanding of the way the game is played beyond rank 19. Making a killer that can (basically) only win by slugging (I don’t think they realized this issue) is terrible for both killer and survivor.

perhaps they could let some of their fog whispers who main killer play the new killers very early in the design phase would help. (Make them sign an NDA of course.) otherwise we’ll keep getting killers that seem awesome in theory but are terrible in practice.

Crowman

The Twins themselves aren't very good. The only reason they aren't the worst killer in the game is because they are very efficient at slugging. They basically are just reversed legion who has to M1 survivors first and then use their power to chain down survivors.

konchok

Balance wise/ Strength wise I have no idea how good or bad they are. What I do know is that the killer is not interesting from a chase perspective. This killer feels so close to being amazing and yet it mostly feels half baked.

1. Players are going to play a killer in a way that is optimum to do well with them. If that doesn't fit the players playstyle they will use a different killer.
2. The optimum way to use the twins is to not use Charlotte. This is simply because out of the two, Charlotte is only used when Victor is face crabbing (bringing HL3 back)
3. Charlotte or Victor can be used as an AFK goal keeper. This is can be used for hooks or gens, but it's about as interesting as the spirit standing still mindgame.

So, how would I change the Twins to be more interactive.

1. Take away Victors ability to secure downs. Victor will face crab healthy or injured survivors, but cannot put a survivor in dying state.
   1. This is a fairly sizeable nerf. To make the Twins viable a number of buffs will need to be made.
2. The time to remove victor takes twice as long. There are skill checks that a survivor must hit, if they miss there is a loud notification and the progress for removing victor is reset or heavily reduced.
3. While Victor is on a survivor,
   1. They are hindered
   2. because they are hindered All window vaults are slow vaults.
   3. a visual impairment affect is added to their screen.
   4. They will periodically scream
4. Victor is given an animation for vaulting a window. This is done to prevent certain windows from being god windows against Victor
5. Victor can hold a survivor in a locker for three times as long as it currently is, however, a notification (similar to a trappers trap is shown to other survivors, they can then rescue the survivor in the locker)
6. There is no longer a penalty time from switch to or from Victor. However, there is a cooldown period that must expire before Victor can switch to Charlotte and Vice Versa. (It should be similar to a nurse token recharge)
7. Charlotte can stand at a location in the map and mark it. Victor will teleport to that location. (Victor cannot teleport while head crabbing or while attached to a locker)

The problems with camping the hook evaporate if these changes are made because victor cannot be used to tunnel the injured survivor, effectively because he cannot down them. Victor could still be used as a guard, but it wouldn't result in a dying survivor, only a survivor who is getting face crabbed. At which point it is more effective to target the rescuer. Charlotte would still be available to use to guard the hook, however, because Victor has no downing potential on his own, Charlotte will need to leave the hook to secure the down.

This also removes heavy slugging as being an optimum strategy for the twins. The twins become a strong chase killer and are weak sluggers/campers.

Francesco044

@WishIcouldmain said:

They are perhaps one of the most debated killers. Some say they're great some say they're hot trash? What do you think?

I think they are good, you could put Viktor in one spot, hit a survivor with Charlotte switch back to Viktor and get a fast down, like demo can do with his portals (considerably difficult to do).

DawnMad

They are good at snowballing off of injured survivors and defending areas. Not very good but definitely leaning towards good than bad in my opinion.

GlamourousLeviathan

I really do believe that they would be A tier if it wasn't for the fact that they are basically forced to slug and for how much lockers counters them.

Dr_Loomis

I don't expect a 4K with The Twins every match, even though I have their Adept. But you can often have a fun match with them.

Freddy96

Yes, it happened with other killers too. No, it never happened so quickly and so consistently.

The twins are really strong, they're just not made for chase+hook and repeat against the strongest teams, but they can have a chance against them by slugging.

Plebinka

I think Twins are too OP - but Hard Killer at least a good killer.

AnnoyingNarrator

They are bad, as they can only really slug and camp.

FFirebrandd

If you play kind of Scummy they're strong. If you try to not do that, they're pretty poor.

The worst part is if you happen to down someone with Victor then decide to hook them. Now you've got both twins in a very similar location next to a hook and literally no way to quickly relocate both. It would be incredibly helpful if Charlotte could recall Victor at any time if he's just standing around somewhere instead of having to wait 90s for him to come back on his own.

Also as the Twins, you technically have 3 ways to use Victor. Slugging Machine, Jockey, and Radar Station/Obstacle. The only one that really works is Slugging Machine. Using Victor as a Jockey sort of works, but he really doesn't take long enough to remove for that to work. The last option flat out doesn't work because you can't drop Victor on the ground and stay in control of Charlotte for some reason. I have no idea why. On the PTR I tried to use them that way, and it worked but was too slow. Got several Charlotte M1's against people who paused looping to kick Victor, but the setup for deploying and switching back was way too long.

Awkward_Fiend

They're a good idea, but they're executed so poorly that it's upsetting.

Zesty

Good but very boring to go against IMO

ShamelessPigMain

They have a high skill ceiling.

What makes the twins special is that they can essentially maintain the pressure of two killers. For less experienced players, like myself, we fall apart in shambles since we are completely unable to efficiently and effectively switch between the two to maintain maximum potential pressure, so we stumble over, the baby gets murdered, and now we're just a pregnant M1 killer. Really good killers know when and where to switch over, and can use Victor just as effectively as Charlotte. When one killer is unable to keep up the pressure, they can just switch over to apply more.

That being said, I've met like 3 good Twins since the dawn of time, so I think my hypothesis has a while to go until proven.

Of course, they're really awful to play against if they're mediocre; having two bodies is great for camping while still keeping up pressure.

xEcoLog1cDuk3Xx

The twins released a total of 42 days ago (as of now) and yet I see no one playing them on a regular basis and they're probably the only Killer I ain't P3'ing. I rather play Old Wraith and Freddy than the Twins tbh. Btw with Old Wraith you had no increased Movement speed add-ons and weren't able to kick Pallets and Generators while Cloaked, with Old Freddy you have to pull a Survivor asleep while you slowed down for 3 seconds and they were invincible for 7 seconds.

ManyAchievables

They're weak but also incredibly frustrating at times as some of their best playstyles revolve around the most frustrating things to experience as a Survivor.

Chchchcheryl

Against popular belief there isnt only one efficient way to play them, their special mechanic adds so many possibilities and opportunities that normal killers dont have, but people just slug with them.

They give the reason that charlotte is a useless m1 killer, so they just use Victor, unless hooking. Which is stupid

I dont see trappers or wraiths slugging whole lobbies, because they become/are m1 killers, once they've placed all their traps down or come out of cloak.

Exerath1992

They're a lot better than people think, even without slugging or hard camping. You just have to change your mindset about perks and strategy. Check out my full opinion below:

@Exerath1992 said:

A lot of people say the twins are underwhelming because charlotte doesn't have any abilities. I disagree, because I view Victor as the main killer, and charlotte as a mobile spawn point, downed survivor chofeur, gen breaker, window/pallet/doorway blocker, and surrogate for when you need to use your perks.

Victor is very powerful on his own due to his base speed, blood tracking, small size, short shriek radius, respawns very quickly and his lunge is the most powerful lunge attack in the game yet. With all these strong aspects, he HAD to have some drawbacks, such as being crushable by pallets and after missed lunges, your perks exclude him, and he's weak against short, circular loops.

I think the strengths and weaknesses balance out and make them harder to learn because you have to think very differently than any other killer, and craft your perk loadout differently. For example:

-You can use PWYF to buff Charlotte speed so she can get to generators for breaking or get to and transport downed survivors faster, while using victor for most of your attacks to preserve tokens. Plus, you can easily drop chase to gain a token without actually dropping chase by releasing victor.

-Using STBFL can give charlotte more snowball potential for emergencies and you can preserve tokens by only going after the obsession with victor

-Using Coup De Grace, you can rely heavily on victor for most of the match and refuse to lunge with charlotte in order to save up tokens, giving you a lot of snowball potential in the end game, especially when combined with STBFL

-Any perk that gives hemorrhage gives victor a lot of tracking potential.

-You can use bamboozle in a room with 2 exits to block a window, body block the door with charlotte, and release victor to kill the survivor.

-Using insidious lets you return to charlotte without her TR returning, so you can chase a survivor with victor to a hidden charlotte, switch back to her, and wait for the survivor to take the bait and try to crush victor, then pop out and you have easy, distracted prey

-Because controlling victor removes charlotte TR, you can use dragons grip and hide charlotte nearby to surprise a survivor while they're exposed. Conversely, using trail of torment allows you to leave victor to guard the generator and sneak up on people with Charlotte

-Use Franklin's demise and leave one of the twins standing on a dropped key to ensure the entity consumes it.

-Devour hope and make your choice allows you to leave victor close-ish to the hook while you walk charlotte away so you can still get the effect without giving them too much of a head start.

-I saw a post suggesting dead mans switch and thrilling tremors so you can quickly get all survivors off of generators using victors speed to give the perks more value than they typically would.

All this being said, I do think there is one thing they could add to the twins to make them absolutely perfect:

Fraternal missile: when victor has been bonded to charlotte for 15 seconds or more, press and hold the power button to throw victor (the "release victor" action would be moved to the "alt ability" button.) Preparing to throw victor takes one second and slows Charlotte to 2.4 m/s. Cancelling a throw fatigues charlotte for .5 seconds. Throwing victor has the same trajectory as a typical pounce except with a slightly higher origin point, and victor can be crushed by pallets mid-flight and is crushable for 3 seconds after being thrown if he missed or downed a survivor. After throwing, you take control of victor unless he attaches to a survivor, in which case charlotte is fatigued for 3 seconds. Fraternal missile can not be used in a location that releasing victor or switching between victor and charlotte would be prohibited.

This addition would make it where survs can't under-estimate charlotte because you don't know if she will bust out the baby toss or not. It can't be used frequently because after he's thrown, he has to get crushed, wait 30 seconds of being latched on, or 90 seconds of being idle.

GannTM

They're good at giving me headache, but their gameplay is bad.

Yords

Technically speaking, they are decently effective. However, the high duration slugging is unhealthy for gameplay.