Awkward_Fiend
Awkward_Fiend
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@Valik said:
I think my Dead Hard brothers are failing to see the big picture.
Dead Hard gives an invisible health state to survivors when used correctly. By baiting out a swing, or making it to a loop - you rob the killer of a down and continue on. It's 1 free health state IF used correctly.
Circle of healing can give an infinite number of heals and make healing allies nearly twice as fast. God forbid they have health kits too. I've had an entire 4 man team of survivors wounded only for 3 of them to get healed within 15 seconds of them all taking protection hits for a hook.
The worst part is that there's no repercussion. There is no cooldown, there is no limit, the totems don't even break when snuffed.
Chases can last about 32 seconds or so, if the survivor takes 16 seconds to hit. It takes survivors 16 seconds to be healed by a team, or 32 to self heal with Self Care. Health states need time and resources - it's 16 seconds to be healed by a teammate, and the only time you can heal yourself without finite resources is with a perk. The time of each survivor used to heal is 16 seconds - which means the cost for a health state for survivors should be 32 seconds time and/or resources. Balanced so far. Medkits can take 16 seconds for a self heal, but are limited. Inner healing can restore a health state faster, but requires 14 seconds of cleansing and finite resources. Everything checks out.
Boon: Circle Of Healing takes 14 seconds to bless a totem.
Subsequent, infinite heals take less time than before.
20 seconds to self-heal with the totem. (Faster than 32 and needs no resources)
~9 seconds to heal with a medkit or teammates (7 seconds faster than a normal healing process)
If 3 teammates have a healing party WITHOUT COH, it would take them a little over 30 seconds to heal everyone up to full. (~10 seconds a person, took the time of 3 people, balanced)
WITH COH they can all 3 be healed with only 15 seconds. (5 seconds per person!)
The value of COH is exponential depending on how long it stays up. The initial 14 seconds it took to install the totem is almost equal to the killer time it would take to snuff it. If it took the killer 5 seconds to walk to the totem, snuff it, then walk back - the value of time already had value.
The worst thing is that these healing techniques do not trade health states or resources, only time. Each health state must be equal in flat time to how much a killer must expend to re-acquire it in a fair chase.
However, what you can do for fun, here's a simple calculation to determine the flat value of the perk in terms of survivor time saved on healing per investment. V = ( B x [ S x 20 ] ) + { [ NPSH x 20 ] + [ PSH x 5 ] + [ TH x 6 ] } - [ (B x 14) / H ]
B is how many times the totem was blessed in the match. H is how many times survivors used the boon totem to aid in healing of any kind. this will show you how much flat time the survivors saved by using this perk.
NPSH is 'No Perk Self Heal' for allies that use the perk to heal without the aid of an item or perk. PSH is for those who use a medkit or perk to heal within the Boon's radius. And TH is for altruistic healing, which - on average - is done 6 seconds faster.
REMEMBER - that in most cases, the killer has to take several seconds through the course of the trial to walk to the toem and snuff it. While snuffing only takes a second, it scarcely happens next to a hook or in chase - so the killer is wasting time they could have spent pressuring or chasing in order to go to the totem and return. S is how many times the killer snuffed the totem. If the killer only needed to take 2 seconds to walk to the totem - then 2 to walk back from it, this calculation is fair and average. The killer's time is 4x more valuable than survivors in this sense, and so for each time the killer left chase, left the hook, left the generator, or left their vantage point to snuff the totem - survivors are usually netting a total of 20 seconds of shared time between everyone, and that's if the totem is nearby. This is a lenient number.
Here's and example:
Match against a trapper, survivors hit gens early as he sets up.
Gets into chase with the perk holder, but they get away.
Survivor blesses a totem - healed themselves, team takes hits as they do gens.
Killer comes back looking for survivors, finds the boon it is snuffed.
It's quickly blessed it again, and the entire team heals there for a reset.
A chase ensues and a survivor is downed with another injured.
The team picks up the survivor to full health. before the killer downs and hooks another and snuffs the totem.
Gens fly, but the ally is unhooked and protection hits are traded. Our main survivor manages to get the boon off, but is chased away before they can heal.
3 survivors escape injured and 1 survivor uses the totem and their medkit to heal themselves before taking a hit on the way out.
The perk has shown its incredible value in this situation, denying chases - providing cavalier protection hits, denying a hook - and denying a kill altogether at the end.
With our calculation, we come to this
V = ( 3 x [ 2 x 20 ] ) + { [ 2 x 20 ] + [ 1 x 5 ] + [ 6 x 6 ] } - [ (3 x 14) / 7 ]
V = ( 3 x [40] ) + { [ 40 ] + [ 5 ] + [ 36 ] } - [ (44) / 7 ]
V = (120) + { 81 } - [ 6.2 ]
V = 194.8
Circle Of Healing gave the survivors 194.8 seconds of value, with 2 free health states, 1 quick heal, 2 additional distractions, and one full save. Most of this was from the killer wasting time snuffing it only for it to be blessed again.
Even if the killer never snuffed the totem, the survivors would have gained 79 seconds of value and all the health states involved. If the killer dedicated to more chases instead of snuffing - he ran the risk of the survivors retreating to the totem and forcing a conflict of interest if he wants to waste the time on the totem, or if he will let it accrue more value and health states as he attempts to seize the momentum to his favor.
Dead hard may extend chases, but it can backfire - and can't be used more than a few times in a match. It can also be baited, and sometimes survivors mess up and get themselves killed with it. It may get up to 16 seconds of value per use if lucky or skilled enough.
To rival the usefulness of Circle of Healing, the killer must miss on 12 high value dead hard uses in a single match, and all of them must cause either a chase escape, or a greatly prolonged chase that lasts for several more seconds.
If survivors aren't using Dead Hard super well, or the killer is able to punish them from time to time, and they only get 5 seconds of value out of it on average, then it would take 39 Dead Hard uses in a single match to rival the power of Circle Of Healing.
Circle's definitely much more powerful, but DH gets on my nerves more
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If it's a setting that I can turn off and it applies to the survivors/killer if you're playing killer/survivor than sure, as long as it always affects the other role.
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I'd rather play killer, but I tend to have more fun when I play survivor due to being able to make more mistakes and not constantly on full alert with no downtime whatsoever.
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@CowabungaDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714572#Comment_2714572
prove thyself requires 2 people, resilience i already mentioned, spine chill barely does anything, fast track is ass, toolboxes arent perks, stake out is a joke. thats why i said "realistic"
Prove and Resilience are pretty good gen repair (and the latter helps in chase) perks, and Spine Chill helps a lot in Solo Q, just not on gens.
Fast Track is a surprisingly good perk, because assuming you get to the point where there's been 6 hooks, that's roughly 1/20th of the total objective that's done as soon as you get a great skill check, and at the point where getting an extra boost would be the most beneficial (the three gen). The main downside is that it does require that your team is capable of not getting snowballed. It's not as good as the first 2 perks, but it's still good.
Toolboxes, although not perks, are still pretty nutty. Especially considering that they're separate from perks AND that you can augment them using Built to Last to make them even more insane. A Commodious (16s gen time) + Wire Spool (6s)+ BNP (20s) + Built to Last is truly insane. Although that problem is mostly just BNP and Built to Last, the Commodious is still a bit much on its own considering there's no downside whatsoever for using it, especially since Circle's used every game nowadays anyway so medkits aren't as useful.
Stake out's still a joke.
One problem that seems to plague killer players is that the majority of survivors time-savers are passive effects (Toolbox time saves, Fast Track Stacks, Prove Thyself), meanwhile the only passive killer perks I can think of are Corrupt, No Way Out and Deadlock.
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@Ssajbambusa said:
@Awkward_Fiend How would you describe Proove Thyself or Fast Track then?
Prove Thyself and Fast Track allow the survivors to get objectives done fast in the same way that Infectious allows killers to snowball fast. If you think that those perks are the issue though, you'd (mostly) be mistaken, it's perks like Circle of Healing and the Built to Last + Charge addon Commodious that are the problem.
@Ssajbambusa said:
@CowabungaDude If you think that Prove thyself, Resilience or Spine Chill are not strong perks then I don't think we have much to talk about xD.
My argument still stands, survivors do have perks to speed up their objective, while killers don't, no matter if you think they are strong or not.
Infectious Fright, Starstruck, Devour Hope, and most other snowball perks allow the killer to speed up their objectives (instadowns and / or reliable chase chaining). It's not as clear cut as a raw gen speed boost, but it's still a potent boost. Also Prove, Resilience, and Spine chill are definitely strong perks. Also perks to speed up hook states, despite being the most comparable to gen speeds, would be busted, even as a scourge hook.
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This would be good if it also punished camping, speeding up kills while camping only incentivizes lazy and uninteresting gameplay
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Usually at the endgame the killer starts camping, and since I don't have BT if nobody else with it is going for unhook, I won't help. I'll still happily body block though.
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Each totem should come with a penalty to insure that stacking Circle + Exponential + Shadowstep on maps with Lery's or especially Midwich aren't as effective.
Shadowstep - While within the radius, the Killer's TR is 8m smaller to you
Circle of Healing - The totems range decreases from 24 to 12m.
Exponential - Crawling speed within the range is 15% slower.
Boons should also be able to be broken with attacks, including both melees and special attacks, such as Hatchets, Shreds, or Tentacle Strikes. They also probably shouldn't affect separate stories, because that's insane on Midwich or Game.
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Overcome into Circle outside killers' patrol zone is a true combo, and there's basically nothing they can do about it 😎
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Just out-cleanse her and you'll all be healthy with her only having 60 seconds of corrupt. Doing this is extremely easy and effective with even basic coordination
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PREY
Talos 1 lobby could be a very good map, Morgan Yu would make for a cool survivor with a lot of possibility for unique perks, and the only downside is that they'd need to stretch to have a killer.
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He was in a weird spot where they couldn't nerf him in fear of making him unfun for killer, and couldn't buff him since he'd be more unfun for survivors. In the end they decided to stomach the consequences and just nerfed him, making him super clunky and removing both the stealth AND quickshot aspects in one swoop, which were the only 2 reasons people liked him.
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Twins only because BHVR doesn't know how to make this character live up to their potential and instead are fine leaving them in the state they are now, which despite having a high skill ceiling, their skill floor makes most just camp with them.
Victor and Charlotte should have team plays, such as toggling it to where Charlotte slowly walks to Victor's position or not. Nerf camping by making it to where you can't have victor out inside an area near a hooked survivor, and if he is out he's destroyed UNLESS you're close to a survivor who've you've been in chase with within the past 30 seconds. Just because of Haddonfield, make Victor able to vault windows, and maybe even block them. Breaking out of lockers should deal damage. Nerf Victor's miss cooldown, and buff his down cooldown.
Twins have the potential to be one of the coolest killers in the game, but this is all just missed potential because there's no longer incentive to improve them since the chapter has released and there is a very small Twins playerbase
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Just increase the caps to like 15k or something so realistically you won't hit them in a game, but they'll still de-incentivize farming
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I love sweating for a 0k, makes you feel really good when you only manage to get 4 hooks with a strong killer with strong perks and addons.
If I lose, I should in theory get an easier game right? So why are my games still getting harder?
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Blight is the best killer on the list, and due to that he's the best pallet shredder.
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It was a bad addition purely because of how much dev time was taken adding it rather than fixing bugs or balance.
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They should only stop targeting the person with the box when they're solving it.
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I don't like the show, so instead they should add my Dad to the game as a survivor. They can't have him be killable though because that'd be rude to him.
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Remove it on Trickster knife, and at least we'd have a weak hex perk instead of a busted hex that's useless on everybody else.
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Jeff
I'm not biased
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Send the killer to red forest, find the 4 lane with a ton of lockers. Bring 4 vigils and 4 head ons. Profit.
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Most Iconic - Shape
Most Powerful - The Executioner
Most Unique - The Pinhead
Best Feel - The Nemesis (He really makes you feel unstoppable at times, shredding through pallets and getting hits over obstacles.)
Most 'Fair' - The Cannibal
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Morgan Yu from PREY would be my preferred license, but it would have to be a paragraph or a mixed-license chapter.
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Allow it to proc on Mending another surv, taking a protection hit, breaking a chain from Pinhead / Slinger, Vaccinating another surv, Flashlight save, etc. If it's an altruistic action, it should proc.
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Claudette is the best survivor, while Meg is the best perks.
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50% progression speed would be adequate, although I would rather see instant regression added as well as passive regression.
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Imagine being immune to Exhausted, infinite sprint burst or infinite Dead Hard
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I would love to see a Scarecrow killer.
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Easy - Wraith, Leatherface, Trickster, Michael, Freddy, Legion, Clown
Intermediate - Hillbilly, Huntress, Hag, Spirit, Demogorgon, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Ghostface, Doctor, Pig
Hard - Nurse, Oni, Blight, Twins, Pinhead
I would rather they describe killers with a brief description of how the power works. Mobile / Stationary power usage (Blight / Nemesis, for example) as well as Semi-Chaser / Chaser / Stealth / Trap set / Unique killers (Doctor / Oni / Michael / Hag / Twins). This could give players a greater idea of how their power will function prior to playing them.
For example. Blight = Mobile Chaser || Doctor = Stationary Semi-Chaser || Wraith = Mobile Stealth || Freddy = Mobile Trap set || Pinhead = Stationary Unique
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Ghostface would definitely Teabag one of the survivors long enough for me to fix a gen or something.
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Chains should become inactive until a straight-line link between the survivor and portal can be re-established. This would make it to where the chain will still have an effect if not yanked off, but still have it be less useful in tight spaces.
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Currently, gens fly by when I'm playing killer, even killers I haven't touched in ages. So I am constantly losing until the survivors mess up and I barely scrape a 4k due to them all messing up simultaneously, so now I have to sweat harder next game. I don't ever feel like I win or that I outplayed them, it really does feel now like I'm babysitting until one of the kids trips and KOs themself.
Having games like this is fine, but holy hell give me a break sometimes game, I don't want every game to be stressful. Give me a mix of sweat fests where I win, sweat fests where I lose, and casual games where I can be merciful and relax a bit because this just isn't it, chief.
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Killer games feel about the same as they used to, except for survivor where my games I die much more often.
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I'm pretty sure this is because the events related to the Lament Config are registered as "Bonus", meaning that they're intended to go above the 32k.
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I'd enjoy this if I could earn BP and they could feel like actual players, I'd probably just use it to practice a killer when they first release though, or to wait out a dc ban because College internet randomly, without warning, disconnects for a few seconds causing me to be penalized.
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I'm probably underestimating him since I've seen the Chain hunt do nothing, even when nobody has the box and the timer's been up for over 30 seconds.
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Blight main here, at least I can exist on Haddonfield.
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Not the best way to handle it, but sure. I don't fully understand the rage, but if it causes people to be mad then sure, make a solution. Capping the cameras vertical height would be a better option rather than locking it to a certain rectangle, this way the taller your monitor the more zoomed in the game is.
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Not a big deal, but I don't think it looks better. The advantage you get from using stretched is that it simplifies vertical FOV at the cost of horizontal FOV. There's next to nothing that you couldn't see with non-stretch that you can with stretch. Stretched makes it to where you move your mouse less vertically to see the same things.
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Imagine if the survivor in the Midchapter is Carl
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- Deadlock seems like a new perk that has a chance to slip into the meta for people as an alternative to Ruin or Corrupt
- Who cares if the killer is weak, as long as I have fun playing them for 10 or so games.
- The devs mentioned that they'll make holding the box riskier, and that you'll basically have to solve it in order to stop existing chain hunts, since they aren't solved just by holding the box now.
- I just like that Pinhead's here
- I'm not buying the paragraph to support BHVR, I'm buying it to play as Pinhead. Besides, BHVR does seem like a pretty good place to work, compared to a ton of other gaming companies. I could be wrong on this one, though.
- His character portrait is hella quirky and out of place, he looks like he came to tell me that he shat the bed.
- Survivor will be out in the midchapter, and yeah it'll be a bit more expensive, but I can get the surv with shards since it won't be licensed.
- We don't pay for maps; Although I would like more, it's kinda stupid to say we shouldn't buy a chapter/paragraph because there's no map.
However, I do have one major complaint with this entire thing. I thought BHVR was stepping away from paragraphs after Ghostface / Ash.
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@FilthyLegionMain said:
Give survivors the ability to break them.
That would break Dead Dawg open entirely, and will make Badham layouts more survivor favored and might crack Meat plant open too.
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Being able to just prevent people from getting head traps off with Madness is insane, and would be absolutely busted in this hypothetical. Plague and Freddy's interactable won't have this issue though
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Morgan Yu from PREY, and maybe a Phantom as well
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Buffing the numbers could be too much because, from what I understand, in competitive it's considered pretty damn good. Making it to 50% (Decreasing the time to 66%) could result in it being one of the strongest passive perks across the board.
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Overall the outdoor maps play better, although the indoor maps look so much better. Lery's is the only indoor that I'd say is in a good spot both visually and gameplay wise.
Hawkins and Midwich are laughably killer sided, while the former also doesn't allow many killer powers at many loops. The Game and RPD are also so survivor sided that it's basically a joke; Good luck playing Blight on RPD for example.
The main problem that the indoor maps have is that it stifles the tracking that both sides rely on, Crows and LOS. Since neither side can rely on these, tracking becomes a pain and the game innately becomes a tad more irritating, which can help the player become more upset if the game or players decides to mess with 'em.
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Body block with BT, Gens are flying too fast and I need pressure, or I just don't like the cut of your gib.
It's also important for me to define what I'd qualify as tunnelling, as there's no hard definition. I intentionally gun for the same survivor time and time again. If I have to choose between 2 survivors on a gen though, and I choose the one closest to death, that's not tunnelling, that's just smart gameplay, at least it wouldn't be tunnelling if neither survivor is injured.
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@treefiddyoh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2397892#Comment_2397892
Nowhere did I say a killer has to do anything. What I asked is why are killers camping end game so much more lately.
Is it because the skill level has decreased?
As the game becomes more developed, people begin to learn more and more efficient tactics. Since endgame camping allows the killer to keep the kill, and not camping puts the kill in massive risk, there's no reason to leave. Killers starting this now isn't the problem, the problem is that it took this long for people to catch on.
@WexlerWendigo said:
The killer skill level has gone down since the RE chapter, but endgame camping hasn’t become any more common.
There's still a plethora of great killers, if the killers you're going against are worse than that's either on the matchmaking, or it's on you.
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I'd rather it reveal when they start cleansing a lit totem but only for a short amount of time.