DocOctober
DocOctober
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Youre using 100% and 115% to compare what, 125% and 135%? That is NOT as significant of a change, because it's ALREADY a higher value of the original 100%. it isnt a 15% drop. It's 15% LESS of a bonus that is added to it.
Try again.
Also, I WAS done, on the old posts? You keep up with stupid ######### towards Devs that actually know what is going on and I'll keep refuting your BS math.
@Ihatelife The only thing getting boring is watching people moonwalk and now get salty they cant rely on it.
Sure, we can stop. Just stop trying to say Legion is getting nerfed? Legion is fine, maybe even better now.
I'm not gonna put "end" because unlike you, I understand what a discussion on a forum is. A discussion, not some kid trying to have the last word when they have no evidence to backup the wild claims they hold onto like a lost child in the dark.
Also, "their needs a buff"? Their what needs a buff? Or They need a buff? If you're going to try and argue online, and end one at that, at least do it with proper grammar hon.
<3
I've been doing my "BS" maths in DbD for almost 2 years now and it has worked out quite nicely. I see no reason why that should suddenly change, especially since you are the only person "refuting" it and others that I know are maths/physics students don't see a need for it.
But hey, if it makes you happy to feel like you've somehow proven me wrong...
@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/423374#Comment_423374
Survivor and killer mains alike all said the core gameplay if the killer was horrific and promoted gameplay that was both unfun and unfair.
Stop pretending otherwise, ffs.
While that is true, the main gripe Killer mains have is that with the rework, only the Survivor's fun in regards to Legion is addressed, not the Killer's fun.
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As the host Killer, you have nothing to fear.
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@Carpemortum said:
@Tzeentchling9 It was a devstream within the last months showing survival rates based on rank, map, killer, etc. If you don't want to do the research, don't debate the evidence I just gave you supporting the argument.
The source is the devs themselves.
Dcs are counted just as much as killers letting people go. They wash out. Nice to see you didn't ask about that possible miscalculation. Was it because it doesn't fit your argument?
Is the context taken into account?
What about all the games that would end with 0-1 kill IF the Survivors had decided to gtfo (= loss for the Killer, because Survivors played better), but then turned into 2-4 kills thanks to their own greed for some more altruism points making them screw up (= win for the Killer because the Survivors messed up)?
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424124#Comment_424124
And here's why this argument doesn't work except your fairy tale scenario.
You can throw mathematics and physics at them, but you haven't ACTUALLY SEEN the difference in ground covered in game. The Devs have. Them saying it covers more ground, and you saying "my high school math shows me thats wrong" doesn't change the fact that they know what changes have been made and how much they actually affect Legion.
"Legion longer to cover the same distance in Feral Frenzy as it did before, thanks to the significantly lowered speed"
Significantly. Because 10-15% is significant? Espacially when these numbers are already upwards of 130%? That's rather insignificant.
Same distance? Pretty sure that when the Devs test it, and sasy they can cover more ground, they actually mean that. I mean, they ARE the only ones who see how it actually plays right now.
Unless you've done some out of the box testing for them?
Since the difference in speed of Killers to Survivors is by default just 10-15%, that figure IS quite significant. Shows me that you don't understand the impact even relatively small percentage changes in that regard can have.
Anyways, I thought you were done with me?
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@Mat_Sella said:
Collision can help you bump into survivor's, letting you know exactly where they are
That's the point OP doesn't like. He wants her nerfed.
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@Victory said:
Hey, why get better at a game if you can whine and have the devs kill survivors for you, right? "I got outplayed! and they stayed end game to save a friend I got with noed!! Survivors are op!!! nerf!" Devs: "Alright, here is the plan: the entity will KILL the survivors for you! :) <3.
If it makes you happy to believe that, go on.
I'm too tired at this point to try and reason with Survivor mains, talking to a brick wall is much more productive than that.
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@Crythor said:
The endgame collapse looks very promising. Finally survivors are urged to leave and hatch can be closed. No more holding the game hostage at the end of the game. Also the visuals are amazing! Very thematic!
Only a few questions:
- Can the hatch be reopened after being closed by the killer? If so do you need a key for that?
- The video said survivors will recive audio and visual que every quarter of the timer. So the killer dosent? It would be a shame if you couldnt see the nice red animation on the ground.
I'm pretty sure that those are global cues.
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I believe that with this new end-game, the survivors will not take any risk and therefore repair the engines and once the doors open, they will leave the premises, nothing of the end-game will be threatening.
That's the point of the endgame: Survivors have to leave the trial unless they want to get pierced by the Entity.
It's supposed to stop endgame hostage-taking and Hatch stand-offs.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/426558#Comment_426558
Yea some games I lose and others I win as long as you have fun. Also don't listen to anyone that says this is a troll post it is not. Including DocOctober.
It fits all the criteria. You refuse to engage in a discussion and instead just wish everyone to have good luck. While that is nice, it's still trolling considering why you do it.
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It's nice to see that they at least didn't ######### this one up...
...for the time being. This better makes it through the PTB unaltered.
From the current looks, it ties in well with the Lore of what the Trials are about. They aren't safe spaces for Survivors, they are a trial ground for them to get sacrificed.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/426616#Comment_426616
They didnt say that.
This is the reason why I ask.
They didn't say it, but it works like that from the video. When the Trapper closes the Hatch, the Exit Gates received Power.
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They could reinstate his old multi-stalk
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@TheBean said:
@DocOctober Why you being so butthurt?
When you read those posts above... That is completely what I took from it... It made my morning I busted out laughing when I read them.
Good for you.
Doesn't change that I'm right. There's zero reason to believe they'll listen with 2.7.0 all of a sudden again.
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@thesuicidefox said:
You still are forced to Mend before doing anything, so Deep Wound does have some value in the game. It's like Madness 3 but applied instantly instead of over time.
Madness is stronger than Deep Wound and the Doctor does not have Legion's ridiculous cool-downs.
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@Roobnus said:
You sound like a 10 years old kid that just played Killer for the first time.
Just ignore him. He doesn't want to debate and prefers to troll at this point by ignoring what is said to him and just wishing us good luck in future games. He doesn't want his mind changed.
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@TheBean said:
LUL... Says... "You ignore our feedback!"
Peanits: No we don't.. take Spirit for example...
DocOctober: I'm not talking about THAT feedback.. I'm talking about all the other feedback!
DEVS.... <toss their hands up in the air, papers fly everywhere...>
Lovely how you put words in my mouth.
I acknowledged that they did listen to Feedback back in 2.2.0, with Spirit. However, and please get this through your head, I SPECIFICALLY said they ignored the Feedback of all PTBs following that one.
2.4.0 was ignored
2.5.0 was ignored
2.6.0 was ignored
Unless they have some weird "only listen to Feedback from every 4th to 5th PTB and ignore all others" rule, there is no reason to believe that they'll suddenly start listening again with 2.7.0
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@PolarBear said:
Both of these points are from Peanits from another thread (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/57975/these-changes-needs-to-go)
- Although the speed is lower, Feral Frenzy is longer. Overall, you'll be able to much much further than you could before which will make it easier to hit multiple survivors.
- If you miss an attack, your power will not be depleted, it will only cancel. For example, if you have 75% of your charge left, you will start recharging from that point. It does not go back down to zero just because you missed.
Even if you miss an attack in frenzy you aren't punished too much since the power will recharge quite quickly. With the slower speed in Feral Frenzy you will still catch up to survivors and even if they make it to a window/pallet it won't matter most of the time. You can now bait the pallet easier since the power lasts longer and vaulting either one will still probably pause the feral frenzy meter.
Sorry, but no. What you and Peanits imagine may work out in Legion's favour in your ideal fairy tale versions of DbD, but it won't play out that way IRL.
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My question is short: what the hell were you guys thinking?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424595#Comment_424595
That's not true. The Spirit, for instance, went into the PTB with a pretty negative reception, then after receiving some minor changes, became one of the more popular killers. There may not be time to make massive changes to something on the PTB, which is why they will sometimes take a while to implement (Legion, for example), but minor tweaks are definitely possible.
Spirit was PTB 2.2.0
You've ignored Feedback in all PTBs since and including 2.4.0.
So what we keep saying, that you ignore feedback and don't care, is currently very much true.
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@JoannaVO said:
I'm quite sure if the new changes stop the fun, developers will modify the killer until it's both balanced and fun for everyone (especially killers).
Corrected that for you:
I'm quite sure if the new changes stop the Survivor fun, developers will modify the Killer until it's fun for Survivors (especially Survivors).
The devs don't care about Killer fun. Whenever they mentioned the fun aspect in the past couple of months, they only spoke of Survivor fun.
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@BottledWater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/425505#Comment_425505
Have you ever seen a survivor not healing against a 115% Ms killer? Because I sure haven't at least not a single one that survives so and if you have then maybe reconsider your Perk choice or your playstyle
Quite often lately, it's the new meta with Adrenaline.
Instead of wasting time to heal, they focus on getting all gens repaired as quickly as possible while the resident looper keeps the Killer busy, then Adrenaline heals them up instantly.
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@BottledWater said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/425483#Comment_425483
Increased Ms, Reworked add-ons, more time in the Frenzy. These things combined encourage a better playstyle than the current Legion encourages, by actually allowing him to play how he's intended to be played. but because of his increased base MS he will actually be quicker at downing a survivor after Frenzy and he isn't required to use it in the begining of the match. Maybe actually read the patch notes completely and thinking about all possibilities before you ######### talk the Devs before you even got a chance to try these changes out
Increased movement speed doesn't help him. Unless their power can be used to end chases, most 4.6m/s are suffering from looping.
Longer Frenzy will be useless because in addition to that, the devs reduced his Frenzy speed SIGNIFICANTLY.
Anyone who remembers physics 101 should know that distance = time * speed
If you increase the time, yet significantly lower the speed, the end result will be close to the same or only moderately better depending on the ratios.
However, and here's the culprit, having Legion move significantly slower, means that Survivors have much more time to reach Jungle Gyms, Pallets and Vaults (or even Exit Gates), before Legion will close the distance between them.
With how abundant those are on the maps, it's quite fair to assume that more often than not, the Survivor will be in a safe spot, before Legion will have had a chance to apply Deep Wound. And the increased base speed of 4.6m/s, won't do him much good either with the Survivor in a safe spot as is evident with all other 4.6m/s M1 Killers.
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I’ve seen plenty of killers complain and nag on how survivors loop? Do you want us to do nothing?
I feel sorry for you that you are under the assumption that the only two ways to play Survivors are either looping or standing still.
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@Raptorrotas said:
@Shad03 @ultimatefog @Ultima @Peanits
So is that ~5 seconds waiting time for that 25% or for the complete 100%
~20 seconds on a weakish ability like feral frenzy sounds rather long. But thats just because i dont know the duration:recharge ratio.
(Edit: god the tagging sucks on tablets)
The comment makes it quite clear that that is from 75% to 100%, meaning that Legion will have a Power cool-down of 20 seconds once depleted.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424375#Comment_424375
So, they didn't listen to the Spirit or Clown feedback? What's with all hate from you recently doc?
Clown and Spirit were 2.0.0 and 2.2.0 ergo NOT the last 3 PTBs that I mentioned. In addition to that, they also ignored MoM Feedback that was given during the leak of the Perk on console. I see no reason why they should suddenly care again with 2.7.0
I'm giving them negative Feedback because those changes are overall bad. The mediocre buffs are pretty much negated with new nerfs, just as they had done with Plague since her PTB. I'm won't be nice with the devs if they don't deserve it. They messed up a whole lot lately and have nothing but themselves to blame for it for once again, for the umpteenth time, not learning from their past.
Every time and without fault, that they listened to Survivors whining about Killers and their mechanics, the game went downhill. Sensible people would learn from that, yet the devs don't. The few times they didn't listen to outcries and tried to bring the balance back (1.5.0 and 2.0.0) the game experienced another prime time. Sensible people would learn from that, that that is what keeps the game alive, yet the devs don't.
At this point, I'm quite fed up with them, hence the mostly negative comments.
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@Shad03 said:
@DocOctober I'm not trying to stop you from voicing your opinion. That is never my goal when I reply with things like that.
I'm merely saying that needless complaints aren't feedback. If you are giving proper feedback that has substance in it, then by all means, be as negative as you want. But what I am trying to do is have people stop complaining and start giving constructive criticism.
I hope you understand.
"Stop complaining"
Since complaining is a form of negative Feedback, you are indeed to stop me from voicing my opinion.
My constructive feedback is that the Legion changes contain uncalled for nerfs that negate the mediocre buffs they've given him.
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@PolarBear said:
@DocOctober My guess is that they look at both feedback and statistics from the PTB it self and decide on a middle ground.
Completely ignoring any Feedback is going for a middle ground? I don't think so, buddy.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424375#Comment_424375
Maybe the feedback was bad. Last time I checked the community is not a game designer nor developer. Sure some suggestions are appreciated but in the end the devs ate the ones do the testing off all the changes and how they will impact the gameplay. Not only killers' feedback got ignored. Stop acting like this is some sort of conspiracy and playing a victim role will do you no good either - test the changed, voice your opinion - that is it.
I never said only Killer feedback was ignored. I'm saying that feedback in general is ignored. The community gives feedback and the dev absolutely ignored it. Why should we even have a PTB and them asking us for Feedback, if they'll go through with their changes anyways?
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@Shad03 said:
As I've said time and time again there is a time and place for everything.
NEEDLESSLY complaining is not feedback. At least, not for me.
Complaining about the Spirit back when she was introduced is an example of when complaining is used correctly. When complaining is feedback. On those cases, I consider it positive negative feedback.
What people are doing here is not feedback, it's complaining for the sake of complaining. Do I like all the changes proposed? No, not really. Do I have something to say? Yes, and I did it without complaining.
Shifting the terminology around doesn't change the dictionary meaning of it. I'm giving Feedback, whether you like it or not. None of you have any authority to tell me to stop. I'll drown the devs in Feedback at this point. As long as I'm not attacking them in any way, it's constructive, albeit very negative, feedback and they only have themselves to blame for once again not learning from their past.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424348#Comment_424348
There are ways to give negative feedback back with out complaints. As I give feedback but I don't complain.
Negative Feedback is automatically a complaint.
"complaint: a statement that something is unsatisfactory or unacceptable"
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424140#Comment_424140
Missing an attack will not cause your power to be depleted, it would only end your Feral Frenzy. For example, if you missed your attack at 75% charge, you would only have to wait ~5 seconds to use your power again.
We are putting these changes on the PTB before they go live. We can always make changes based on the feedback we receive. I would strongly suggest giving it a try before coming to any conclusions.
Again, you guys ignored feedback in the past couple of PTBs, so why should we still believe you actually care about what we have to say?
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@imlegion said:
Also remember this is a proposed rework they will take what’s we say into consideration plus feedback from PTB
They won't. They ignored all Feedback given in the past 3 PTBs. There's zero reason to believe it will be otherwise all of a sudden for 2.7.0
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@snowflake102 said:
If I was a dev I would not listen to the ones that are giving me complaints on the PTB. So no wonder they don't want to listen to you guys cause all you guys do is down grade em just stop.
You'd be a poor dev then. Complaints are a form of Feedback, negative Feedback.
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@snowflake102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424240#Comment_424240
I know I am too. But it's just really frustrating to see of the threads about complaints. They could give the devs feed back instead if complaining about stuff.
Complaints are a type of Feedback. If you don't say that something is bad, it will never improve.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/424324#Comment_424324
2019 patches have been nothing but survivors gutted and killers buffed. DS got nerfed and you guys are whining because Legion is getting a deserved nerf. Sorry but this killer has been the worst thing which ever happened to DBD and he in his current form is broken. If you fail to see that I do not know what to say.
Survivors gutted? Funny how they still hold the power though. I don't think you understand the meaning of "gutting" something.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
@HereComeTheTrapper yeah dont argue with someone who uses killer main logic.
And especially not someone who uses Survivor main logic.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/423706#Comment_423706
These changes do actually work with the original design of the killer. Compared to before, The Legion will be able to travel further while in Feral Frenzy, allowing them to apply Deep Wound to multiple survivors, while also discouraging using Feral Frenzy repeatedly against one survivor. At the same time, The Legion also gets increased movement speed to follow up and get a down.
And here's why that argument doesn't work outside of your fairy tale DbD game in which Survivors apparently fail to somehow even run a straight line because they are so bad:
Distance covered is a variable of time multiplied with speed.
Since you guys will increase the duration, but significantly lower the speed, the resulting end distance can be rightfully assumed to be near equal to what we currently have or even worse in the WCS.
Combine that with it taking Legion longer to cover the same distance in Feral Frenzy as it did before, thanks to the significantly lowered speed, the end result is that Survivors will have more time to reach a safe spot before Legion is close enough to land an attack. Even when Frenzy then runs out and Legion can chase them faster thanks to 4.6m/s, it doesn't change the fact that instead of having applied Deep Wound, the Survivor is still healthy and safe and sound behind a pallet or a window or at a jungle gym, all things that are abundant on the maps and easy to reach for any Survivor that isn't an utter noob and lurking about the low ranks.
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@TheBean said:
GAH!
I think people should take Peanits advice... Wait and play it on PTB and then give feedback... if you don't want to.. that is ok. People like myself will provide the best feedback possible then. ;^)
Funny how people wanted him reworked... The Devs spend the time and rework him to basically establish a new base line for that killer... and people are crying fowl over it.
Seriously? Didn't people keep complaining on the forums how they didn't like Legion and now everyone is bashing the Devs for making changes to them?... Bashing before even trying out the changes?
I don't know.. but... maybe relax and have some fun and lets see where it goes.
I can't wait till they release info on the Freddy rework and the new End Game collapse. I'm gonna start making some extra popcorn now.
The community wanted Legion to be improved, not gutted, hence the outcries.
The devs have ignored all Feedback from the past 3 PTBs, I don't see why next week's should suddenly be any different.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/423699#Comment_423699
So if a killer requires more effort and skill to play he won't be seen anymore? OK got that. I guess some people cannot play wthout abusing cheap cheese tactics.
You missed the point entirely. It's not about putting in more effort, it's about the devs gutting a Killer that was already weak before. I don't mind putting in a lot of work with the result of the Killer I'm playing rewarding that with being viable across the rank roster, but that won't be the case with new Legion. He'll become a bland M1 Killer that will get looped to death because Deep Wound will be of no consequence to Survivors anymore.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
MoM its not powerful hatchets spirit phase nurse and some perks counter it adredaline ok its good you have noed or you can use rancor free mori ds slug or dont tunnel and it have a timer so dont be like that and tell me why they are doing this it most have a reason right? You dont know? Well ill tell you theres ALOT of killers that tunnel and campers so thats why
Hatchets, Phase Walk, Post-Blink and all those shenanigans you list as counters are bugged. They should NOT counter MoM and the devs are fixing it atm.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Don't change a thing. Leave it just the way it is. These changes will make Legion tolerable to play against at last.
That is because you won't see many Legions anymore.
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@Auron471 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/423690#Comment_423690
Can you elaborate?
Does this really need elaboration? Sheesh...
"Hey, is that Alex that is coming over to me?"
"Nah, bro, I'm at the other side of the Map working on a gen with Jake"
"Oh, is it Max then?"
"No, I'm over here sabotaging that Hook, must be Legion then, brace yourself."
As for the 30% non-SWF lobbies: make Bond meta and you'll have the same result.
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@GrootDude said:
@DocOctober I already know where this will lead so I’m just going to leave it at this.
Aka avoiding the discussion because you're afraid to have to admit that I might be right.
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Does not work in a game that has 70% SWF lobbies.
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@GrootDude said:
@QwrtyMan213 we’ve only seen it on paper. It’d be best to let the pc players test it out. :)
Experienced Players have no trouble deducing correct assumptions from what is just on paper.
And there's no point in testing stuff, because the devs'll just do what they want anyways. For the last 3 PTBs, they ignored the Feedback.
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The Achievement will be reworked
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@CallMeSpidey said:
People complained about DS, then after that change people wanted a NOED change and killers complained about Adrenaline, then DS got buffed and killers were complaining about it.
Mettle of Man was release and killers are complaining about that now, AND NOW since the mending timer will not be affected by terror radius instead of a chase, killer are complaining about Borrowed Time.
There's an easy solution to the Borrowed Time issue.
You mean not camping?
That would indeed be the solution IF most activations of BT didn't occur due to the BT Survivor hook rushing, not even giving the Killer a chance to leave.
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DbD has long moved on from being the game it was in 2016, when your classical design philosophy was applicable. The game was much slower-paced back then, so it made sense for Powers to alleviate the chase, but not be vital to it.
The game's average trial length has gone down to about 50-60% of what it used to be back then and your classical design philosophy is outdated and no longer applicable for a fair and balanced game.
Nowadays, we can observe with easy that if a Power does not help in chase, a Killer is bad, if a Power only helps a bit in chase, a Killer is mediocre, and if a Power helps in chase, a Killer is good.
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Since you interpreted my words earlier, I'll interpret this the following way: you have no argumentation to counteract mine so you use an immature emoji and imaginary lol button.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422534#Comment_422534
Thats the point. you can cover the same distance with the power, but at a slightly reduced speed, since you're not supposed to chase one person over and over. You get longer to find other targets.
They also increased base movement speed to counter this, so that if you DO chase one person, you can do so with an m1 and not waste time OR effort.
The speed is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced, not slightly and I already showed why that is bad with the current Map layouts.
With how close pallets, windows and jungle gyms are located in relation to each other, faster speed and lower duration is much more preferable over slower speed and longer duration.