DocOctober
DocOctober
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@Carpemortum said:
@TreemanXD Oh I know, He keeps responding with stupid ######### in other posts with the most RIDICULOUS logic.
But you're right. I said I was done with it so I'm done with it. I've tried to get info through a brick wall and its just not happenin.
Sometimes I just hope that by breaking down what both people said, the slower minded people I encounter can see some logic in my statements, and not jsut what they want to hear.
Not talking about my most recent fan, just in general. ;)
So how do YOU feel about these changes?
Lovely ad hominem.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
@DocOctober Devs/playstation can't change trophy requirements. It'll be unobtainable on ps4.
PS just added name changing. Their systems are dated
Yeah, I'm not sure how they'll handle this.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Oh I was done trying to help you understand logic on a different post in which you were rambling.
But now I'm asking if you can see how those things are different.
And by you saying apples and bananas, I assume so.
Which means you agree that people who exploit moonwalk for BT, are different than those who get rushed?
Which means you accept that it only affects the exploiters. Thanks.
Glad you finally understand hon.
<3
I only said apples and bananas. I didn't say one word that I see moonwalkers different from hook-rushed non-campers, that was your interpretation and putting words in other people's mouths is quite malicious if you ask me.
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@Trikset said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422258#Comment_422258
"There is no reason, at all, to remove their power entirely on missed attacks while in Frenzy. Why would they also nerf their movement speed while in Frenzy? "
1 - Well a lot of people did exploit the unintended use of Frenzy of Moonwalking for a long ass time, what did you expect?
"Hillbilly moves faster during his power, has an insta down, and no timer on his power."
2 - Next in line for "re-work" - Billy
Just putting it out there into the universe.
Anyways Legions getting a butt load of buffs to accommodate for the removal of their cheese tactics so really there's no reason to complain unless you admit you only played Legion for the cheese which if you do is kind of sad.
A buttload of buffs?
Only 2 or 3 changes are buffs, the rest are nerfs and they quite outnumber the buffs.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422268#Comment_422268
Kind of like comparing Exploiters to people who get hook rushed?
<3
Apples with bananas, deary. And if you're done with me, you really should stop replying to me.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober I'm trying to be but you just won't quit.
"The increased regular speed is not an argument, because it doesn't apply to Feral Frenzy."
Then why mention it will be hell to chase someone "WHILE SLOWER" as you said.
" the Survivor is still healthy and safe and sound behind a pallet or a window or at a jungle gym, all things that are abundant on the maps and easy to reach."
You mean like against every other 115% killer?
GTFO here.
I'm done responding to your nonsense. You make arguments with points that are inconceivably stupid, and then fall back to a different point? Right.
Bye hon.
You have no business telling me to get the ######### out of anywhere. If you don't want to engage with me any further, stop replying, it's that simple.
I'm looking at the Legion changes with Legion-glasses on, meaning I'll disregard other Killers, as these changes do not concern them. From a Legion POV, my scenario and argumentation is sound, even if you don't want to see it that way many others do.
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@Peanits said:
I would suggest giving it a try before jumping to conclusions. It will be on the PTB before the changes go live and if need be, we can always make changes between the PTB and live.
Why exactly should we still bother?
We gave feedback on the PTB for 2.4.0, it was ignored.
We gave feedback on the PTB for 2.5.0, it was ignored.
We gave feedback on the PTB for 2.6.0, it was ignored.
We gave feedback on MoM before it was released, it was ignored.
At this point, it's clear what will most likely happen when we give feedback on the PTB for 2.7.0: it will be ignored and you'll just go through with these changes anyways.
We're no longer buying the "We'll make changes if necessary", because it translates to "We won't make any changes, because we don't deem them necessary and you can't convince us otherwise" lately.
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The Achievement will change to work as the description actually states. A dev confirmed that in another thread.
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@Hoodied said:
@DocOctober Boi, apples are definitely better than bananas. But still, think really hard on it, I called them a Nurse 0.5 because the ability will work somewhat similar to blinks, both will suffer similar weaknesses but not all of the same weaknesses, and some of the same strengths, but both will require heavy skill to use properly
No, it's not comparable.
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@Hoodied said:
@DocOctober I know about the nurse 300% blink speed?
But think about it, Legion has 115% movement speed while Nurse has 96.25% as base, so between the two, the ability compensates for the movement speed, Legion will be slightly faster in frenzy, while Nurse will be like a diving eagle while blinking
You're comparing apples with bananas. That's called false equivalence.
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I read it once and let my rage out, but I re-read it and noticed, the update will make legion harder to play, now lets fall off track for a little bit, what…
The Nurse is much faster than Legion thanks to her Blink. You can't compare the two in the way you're doing it.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober You mean on the forum where we heard about the changes IN THE FIRST PLACE? Right. Next absurd retort?
People spread the word on Discord and the Steam Forums as well. I don't see why it's an absurd assumption.
Also, I thought you were done with me?
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Hon, pease stop acting like those edgelords on YT. You think outside the box more than a developer but can't see how a BT change isn't to punish killers?
You try to break down time as an equation. But lets just talk reality.
They RAISED base speed. You can chase without frenzy normally now.
They LOWERED frenzy speed. You can't chase AS fast in frenzy. ( You shouldnt chase in frenzy anyways. You should use it to get a first hit and follow up or tag a nearby survivor)
They RAISED the duration of frenzy. Not the distance you can travel. You could arguably cover the same distance as before this change, but at a slightly slower rate.
Your scenario is a tad flawed.
" except for that it'll now take longer for Legion to catch up to the Survivor due to the lowered speed"
You don't chase in frenzy, you chase normally, which has had it's speed increased.
That is where your scenario breaks down.
Besides all of this refuting your absurd points, you say you don't see how Im okay with the changes if I play both sides. I do, and I'm okay with MOST of the changes. It's funny that the real change issues (losing all frenzy in one miss, no blood) isn't what you want to talk about. You hold onto your false logic and try to call ME biased?
Nah, I'm out of this one too hon. You can say you think outside of the box, but thats not exactly hard when the box is so far tipped to one side it falls over and opens.
<3
I thought you were done debating with me?
If you don't understand simple maths, then it's not my problem. The increased regular speed is not an argument, because it doesn't apply to Feral Frenzy.
If the devs increase the duration, but significantly lower the speed, the resulting end distance can be rightfully assumed to be near equal to what we currently have or even worse in the WCS.
Combine that with it taking longer to cover the same distance in Feral Frenzy as it did before, the result is that Survivors will have more time to reach a safe spot before Legion is close enough to land an attack. Even when Frenzy then runs out and Legion can chase them faster thanks to 4.6m/s, it doesn't change the fact that instead of having applied Deep Wound, the Survivor is still healthy and safe and sound behind a pallet or a window or at a jungle gym, all things that are abundant on the maps and easy to reach.
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@PolarBear said:
@DocOctober You think outside the box but it seems you jump into a lot of conclusions. We don't know how much they increased the time on the frenzy so to start criticizing the changes so much this early is not that smart. Maybe don't think outside the box rn and just wait for the PTB. I would really like to hear what you think after you've had a hands on experience with him so if you're gonna post about him please tag me.
It's a bit delusional at this point, after all past changes we've got that had the same premise, to still think that they wouldn't have done precisely what I predict they did.
Call me brandished in that regard, but I have not forgotten DbD's past and it speaks for itself.
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@Caretaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422138#Comment_422138
It's windstorm Wraith all over again.
"Here's windstorm, but you're slower, and you uncloak a second longer."
So, WS doesn't do anything then?
"It's a buff stop whining, god."
But it's a nerf.
"It's live."
My point precisely.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Im gonna be done debating/arguing with you at this point. It's obvious you take the info I give you and try to fit it to what you want to be true.
A workaround is a workaround, right. but when you use a workaround, to gain an advantage, or otherwise bypass intended mechanics through a design flaw, its called an exploit. That shouldn't happen.
You've given examples of why you think the change punishes the innocent, and i've shown you how that's not true, but you want to contuinue to rant and fall back onto thse kind of arguements : "It is a horror game for Entity's sake, Survivors should fear the Killer and not give them a big [BAD WORD] you and just do whatever they please without the fear of any repercussions thanks to the umpteenth safety net Perk. "
When in reality, as Ive said, that perk is situational, and does it's job. the ones upset are BIASED OR UNWILLING TO PLAY WITHOUT BYPASSING INTENDED MECHANICS.
I agree it should have simply stayed a timer, and not bleedout. But when it changed to bleedout it gave a slight buff to escape chance, as the killer could simply follow you around until you die in front of them.
Killers Saw this as OP for some reason, and decided to say "######### the chase mechanic, ima walk backwards and get the old results".
Dev's realized this was not intended for BT or legion, and changed it to TR so that those people in question could no longer exploit design flaws to gain unintended results.
As I said originally, Im done debating this with you. You've tried to paint me as a survivor main, throw petty arguements about and refuse to either see logic or adtmit that its an exploit tactic that needed to end. So good luck. Have fun out there. But please try to learn to take things from both perspectives, and not just your own.
The absolute irony of this post is cringe-worthy. I'll agree to disagree with you.
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@Carpemortum said:
Is it just me, or are there A TON of brand new accounts posting about how "horrible" the Legion changes are?
Instead of jumping to the conclusions of those being alternate accounts like @McHarty did, I'd say it's people deciding to voice their opinion for the first time on the forum after reading about the changes.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Becuase most of the changes aren't as bad as people want to think.
The only real issues are the full drain on one missed attack, and not being able to see blood in frenzy anymore, imo.
I don't even mind the slightly reduced frenzy speed given that their base is faster AND frenzy lasts longer.
Distance covered is a variable of speed multiplied with time.
If you increase time, the distance will increase. However, our dear devs, because they can't buff something without nerfing something else as well, have both increased the distance AND decreased the speed.
I may be paranoid at this point, but since DbD's history speaks for itself here, I'm pretty sure that they lowered the speed just enough so that IF there will be more distance with the new changes, the difference to now will probably be pretty close if not the same, so effectively making no change at all, except for that it'll now take longer for Legion to catch up to the Survivor due to the lowered speed, which in turn gives the Survivor more time to reach a vault or a pallet, which we all know are prevalent on the Maps, by the time Frenzy runs out, which in turn makes all this a nerf to Legion's Feral Frenzy.
I just tend to think a bit more outside of the box than the average player or dev for that matter.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober No, moonwalking to workaround Deep wounds was an exploit, which is why its been changed. The pause timers were there to prevent you bleeding out WHILE being chased.
It wasn't a workaround or a counterplay, it was an exploit in design flaws that caused a perk to basically not exist in the match.
As I said before, Moonwalking is fine, use it to mindgame, use it to sneak up on people with no red stain. But using it to make the game THINK youre NOT in a chase when you clearly are is an exploit.
BT being activated by hook rushers happens. If you could simply say "nah i don't want to let your BT mean anything because im not a camper and dont deserve it" and moonwalk around it, you would be negating the entire perk and its activation simply because you don't want to deal with hook rushes?
This change is perfectly fine, only fixes issues that were being exploited, and the only ones truly upset about it are either extremely biased, or the ones using said exploit.
A walkaround is a walkaround, exploit or not. Many walkarounds even turn into features as we can see in multiple instances across tons of games.
Borrowed Time is too strong to be multi-use without any workaround at this point. It is a horror game for Entity's sake, Survivors should fear the Killer and not give them a big ######### you and just do whatever they please without the fear of any repercussions thanks to the umpteenth safety net Perk. That is not good for the balance and the health of the game and originally why Borrowed had the bleed-out timer nerfed until of the devs had the "brilliant" idea to make it have Deep Wound.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Im a survivor main now? Hon, I play both sides. So please keep your bias bullshit at home.
Then I especially don't see why you're OK with the changes, if you truly play both sides.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Are you serious right now?
As it is RIGHT NOW If you are in a chase, it wont tick down...
From the BT page: After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound Status Effect.
Same Deep Wounds Legion gives.
Deep wounds DOES NOT TICK DOWN WHILE IN A CHASE.
Which is why moonwalking around it is an exploit.
This changes nothing in your scenario...You can loop killers with BT RIGHT NOW.
My point is that moonwalking was a workaround. That workaround is now gone.
If it would solely punish actual campers, it'd be for that change. But as I pointed out before, many activations of Borrowed Time are due to hook rush against non-campers and punishing them is not OK.
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@PolarBear said:
@Carpemortum Only sensible person on this thread. The Legion still gets a free hit at the start of a chase with his power. The Legion is still mid tier imo but I guess we'll have to wait and see for the PTB.
Oh, the two Survivor mains are the only sensible people here? Who'd have thought.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Okay, help me understand. How does Borrowed Time, NOT ticking down while in your TR, punish a killer who is going to chase them LEGIT when hook rushed?
It allows the Survivor to extend the chase indefinitely (until the Killer catches them, which against a good looper can take ages) because now, they won't have to stop eventually to mend because of the timer running out.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober Right. They absolutely do. But that itself doesn't change how the BT change ONLY punishes Moonwalkers trying to bypass the timer.
How does it only punish them? It punishes even further Killers that weren't even camping but got hook-rushed. This punishment is not exclusive to moonwalkers.
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@Carpemortum said:
@DocOctober They mean (I believe) the people who use moonwalking to counter Borrowed Times entire purpose. Campers just seem to be the ones that do it the most.
Oh no, they don't mean just that. They are well aware that many Survivors use Borrowed Time to go for unsafe unhooks without any repercussions, they just don't like admitting that.
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@PolarBear said:
@Peanits Amazing news. No more cheese play from campers either! I am super excited to try these changes out on the ptb!
If you know and don't mind telling us, when will you copy our player profiles that will be used for the PTB? My legion is currently very low level and barely has any perks and I'd like to lvl him up so I can test him on the PTB to the absolute fullest.
Indeed, because we all know that every single time Borrowed Time activates, it is because the Killer is camping the Hook, and never because the Borrowed Time user just rushed in without giving the Killer even a chance to get away from the Hook, that thought is just ridiculous and completely unrealistic.
/s
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@SnakeSound222 said:
At first glance, it seems like Legion got gutted. They were already the worst Killer in the game. They now seem like a 115% M1 Killer. The worst change is having Frenzy get canceled after missing one attack. It's just way too much in my opinion. It shouldn't even make it to the PTB, much less the live build. I think most DbD players would be able to see how bad of a change it would be instantly.
@Peanits @not_Queen Are the Deep Wound changes only for Legion? None of the other Killers could use Deep Wound as well as Legion could.
Peanits confirmed in another thread that it'll apply to BT as well.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/421944#Comment_421944
The deep wound changes affect the deep wound status effect, so yes, the changes are the same across the board.
What the hell?!? Sorry, but at is point you should consider making Borrowed Time single-use again, this pretty much brings it back to the old 40-seconds-level of obnoxiousness.
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@not_Queen said:
@Shad03 Thanks for the feedback! This is only on paper, I can't wait to see the feedback when you guys get to try it.
About this:
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
If I am not mistaken, the addons still give you that power, it won't do it on basic frenzy attacks that aren't modified by addons. But let me verify.
You can't wait? I hope you're prepared for another #########-storm. It's beyond me at this point how you guys continue to negate mediocre buffs with outrageous nerfs. Why can't you buff Legion the same way as you buffed Spirit? She became an excellent Killer and is enjoyed by the majority of the community. Take her as an example and stop with those incessant slow-downs and power reset conditions you've added to the last two Killers. If I could, I'd refund both Plague and Legion at this point and refuse to buy any future Killer until I'm sure he's not a crippled shadow of their PTB-self that you consider "fun".
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Only if we get an option to mute those voice lines. I do not want any more talking Survivors, it completely kills my immersion.
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Nurse was never 4.6, she was around Tier I Myers.
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@GrootDude said:
@Orion the problem is that you’d be better off using anything else on your toolbox. Most killers I see don’t use agitation or iron grasp. People say survivors don’t heal, but they do self- care is still meta.
I’m just using your argument against you.
You actually aren't.
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I'd prepare to invest at least a 1000 Dollars into a good PC. It may sound expensive, considering the rising cost of consoles and other additional costs that you don't have on PC and the upgrade-ability of one for future-proofing, thus not needing to buy a new console after X years actually makes PC be the cheaper option down the line, just the initial costs are higher.
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My most favourite: Curtain Call and All Hallows' Eve
My least favourite: Darkness Among Us
I'm quite disappointed that we can't choose which theme plays, it would be so simple to implement as all themes are still in the game files.
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@TimeMonster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/421196#Comment_421196
now that was hurtful
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with @ClogWench, your complaints do not speak of someone with that many hours, but rather of someone who has a 10th of that. You've made a lot such posts lately and I had to shake my head more than once at them.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
No its not dead, but its killing itself at an incredible speed. I rejoined last year and they game and it only got worde during the time i played. As a survivor main I can hardly play a normal game due to gamesided DC, playerbased DC, camping and tunneling, exploits, bugs and awful hitboxes. also those killers are complaining daily about everything survivors can do, ignoring any logic. its ridiculous.
The irony of this post hurts.
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Well they have to find a reason to justify banning for it somehow. I agree with you that those games were the most fun I've had in ages, both as a Survivor or the original host Killer.
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An epidemic? I haven't had a single sabotaged Hook in ages. It's more likely people going for the Dismantled Achievement like I'm doing at the moment.
It's a niche strategy at best.
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@QwrtyMan213 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/420816#Comment_420816
And it shouldn't be. Devs need to make it unappealing for the killer to tunnel.
How about we stop punishing Killers for playing smart and encourage them not to tunnel instead?
I've just about had it with this incessant "punish this, punish that, punish everything I don't like that Killers do that gets me killed".
It's only achieving one thing: ruining the game for Killers.
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Absolutely not.
My proposed rework would be to remove the Haste Status Effect in fairness to all slower Killers and instead have it boost the vaulting speed. That would be fairer in my opinion.
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You can't force people to play a game they don't like.
Punishment won't result in people sticking to lobbies, but rather to them not playing at all.
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@Carpemortum said:
@Tzeentchling9 Asylum Exploit ban? I dont think I'm familiar with what you're referring to.
A long time ago, there was an exploit that allowed Survivors to move up some collision on the outside of the Asylum on Disturbed Ward. Killers couldn't do that or only with great difficulty, this created 100% secure spots for the Survivors.
People were perma-banned for abusing it, but since that was just before we got soft bans, they were unbanned and instead received strike 1.
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I prefer results over meaningless promises. I'll consider thanking them once we have solid details about what is coming, not for announcing that stuff is coming.
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2016 called, it wants its sabo-squads back.
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You don't get the point, as much is clear with that last reply, you are asking questions that have nothing to do with what I said and are actually irrelevant to what I said. You're currently arguing for the sake of it and I already told you that I won't waste my time on that.
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A big reason is also that the majority of players who played in 2016 and got Legacy have long stopped playing this game and many have lost their Legacies during the Progress Loss epidemic that happened in 2017. The devs never reinstated those even though they had promised multiple times.
I have two pieces of Legacy: Dwight's Shirt and Wraith's Weapon. I rarely wear Dwight's Legacy shirt, and even though I use the Legacy weapon on Wraith, few people still recognise it for that (many assume it's the Hallowed Blight skin) and I don't play him that often.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@DocOctober I know what it is. I play Huntress, I know what the deal with the combo is. I'm saying that it doesn't matter anyways since the playerbase agreed that being broken isn't a threat.
So answer this:
Yes or no. If you are sick will you cure yourself?
You can't cure yourself if you're down? I don't believe you know that combo, because otherwise you wouldn't have given this answer.
A 1-2 punch DOWNS a Survivor, there's no curing happening then. I agree that Broken doesn't matter as a hindrance to the Survivors, but that's not the point here. The point is that Broken puts Survivors into the Injured State, allowing to go for a 1-2 punch if she didn't have her stupid post-PTB slows.
I think at this point, you don't want your opinion changed or challenged, but just want to argue for the sake of it.
I for one, will not waste my time on that.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@ReikoMori Again. Being able to hold vial purge has no benefit besides breaking them. And breaking them is only valuable if being injured is dangerous for a survivor. If not using the fountain is a viable strategy for survivors, then holding vial purge MUST not be a strong skill.
IF holding vial purge is effective and dangerous to survivors THEN being broken is even more dangerous making holding vial purge unnecessary since you are either downing them due to them being broken before hand or downing them with corrupt.
IF being broken is a non-issue however and thus they can just not cleanse anyway THEN holding vial purge was never a valuable tatic to begin with.
Again. This isn't a claim of her absolute power, just a claim that holding vial purge was a meaningless tactic to begin with.
Just because you don't get something, doesn't mean it's meaningless.
Holding Vile Purge, to get a good aim and break them in a single stream allows for what Huntress players already know as the 1-2 punch: injure with a Hatchet, down with the Axe.
Going from an M2 to an M1 attack that both injure is much quicker than using two M1 attacks to do the job due to the much shorter cool-downs on M2.
With her slow, that tactic has become nigh impossible to use reliably since the PTB.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/419906#Comment_419906
Is Bill a survivor?; Yes
How often do you play him on ps4?; 0 times.
Bill is the least played survivor on ps4 because he is not available on ps4.
As far as console players are concerned, Bill is not a Survivor. To say that he's the least played Survivor on console is a fallacy, because he can't be played at all. He does not exist on console.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
@DocOctober My point is that this was true before the nerf too. None of the changes made her any more or less loop-able than before since again. Breaking them doesn't require you to loop them in the first place so you should be looping them while they are broken.
I think you don't understand what I meant. She's now slowed in all three stages of using her Power whereas before, that wasn't the case. The projectile speed is so slow that combined with her slows, running loops is the safest way to NOT get hit by Vile or Corrupt Purge, whereas before, due to increased holding speeds, she was able to gain enough ground for the spray to keep up with the Survivor.
Hence why I consider her slows a considerable nerf to her PTB self. There's a reason why so few people play her these days, she got crippled where it hurts the most.