TheMruczek
TheMruczek
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Nurse is close to being fairly balanced imo, while all of your solutions have serious issues. 1st one makes her too vulnerable to holding W, 2nd one makes her very uninteresting to play and verse, 3rd gives her a completely new identity, 4th one I mean look at Xeno's pick rate and kill rate and tell me it's a good solution.
Imo Nurse needs:
A reduction in range for her second blink from 12m to 10m to restrict her from "safe blinking" and to force her to actually engage in more 50/50s +Blinding status effect whenever she charges her blinks. I don't think i need to explain why
If this doesn't tone her down enough, set blink recovery time at 3.5s per token and make stunning her result in her losing all of her tokens.
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No? You don't need to run exhaustion perks and the game is certainly not balanced around survivors having them. 12s SB with og Vigil showed this the most. Vigil is still better at recovering exhaustion so it's definitely not a worse Ghost Notes.
As for add-ons and perks, most exhaustion add-ons are hard to read and get value out of so they aren't used that much compared to add-ons that make your power simply better. There are about 5 anti exhaustion perks, each with it's flaws and drawbacks preventing them from being meta.
The newest Hex from Judgement doesn't even fully counter haste perks while being a Hex perk. So this doomposting "oh my god most exhaustion perks are just countered and are not worth running" is not even true to a slight degree. Remember Sauna Rock add-on that got nerfed? No? Well what a damn shame.
Exhaustion perks are fine for the most part, aside Lithe that is. It not being nerfed in the same update that nerfed SB is beyond bizzare but ey, that's the DbD devs for you.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115044#Comment_4115044
Yeah kinda sucks how they took 3 of the best chase powers in the game, slightly nerfed them and put them on a killer.
I wouldn't say it's worse. Basicly it's on par with Pyramid Head's projectile. Rn Hellfire has about the same zoning potential if not better since Dracula isn't so restricted while moving with hellfire. Pyramid Head can shoot through walls but with how good survivors simply hold W whenever they are pinched in the loop, it's not some massive upside.
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What even is an M1 killer at this point.
Sadako for sure, but what about Doctor or Freddy? Are these your regular basic M1 killers on the level of Sadako or Pig or Ghostie?
Either way I am not playing a D tier M1 killer with no anti-loop with pallet density and bugged m1 lunges.
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Pyramid Head has already been powercrept by Dracula and with PH's last rework he just fell down to the B tier, hard.
Aside having similar Exile/Cage mechanic I cannot say they overlap that much in terms of core power. PH is a zoning mid-range killer and Judgement is pure range killer, in contrast to PH vs Dracula's hellfire comparisons.
One being better than other isn't an issue considering how different they are, still, some buffs to PH would be welcome.
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Yes and no. It depends on situations, maps, what other 3 perks you are going to run and which killer you want to play. Obviously on indoor maps Pop is the superior choice but even in open maps gens will be obstrucked to some degree so TBTC isn't a complete slam dunk.
Not to mention if you have multiple people on gen and try to stop it from popping, inevitably someone will come back to undo the regression while you chase someone else. Imo both perks in this situation have flaws but if you have mobility power or perks supporting Pop like Eruption or Brutal then I think Pop is the better one in this scenario. If you have more passive slowdown like Grim or Pain Res, then TBTC is the superior choice.
And lastly the killers. Any killers with ways to catch up to survivor but unable to interact with environment (think Jason or Dredge) will benefit from Pop more than someone like Wraith or Dracula that just do a drive-by and get more value out of TBCT. Slow killers should almost always bring TBCT.
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I have to say, quite good overall. If I dare to tab out, the game freezes. Waited like 5min trying to get to the lobby, didn't get into it.
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Sure, a lot when the patch dropped. Now maybe 20% of my games are Judgement which is surprising for such a hard killer
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Vigil was very much overtuned becouse it reduced every status effect by like 20s and it deserved a nerf.
If the broken and hindered status effects were to be removed from the PtB version and then shipped to live servers, I think the perk would have been in a much better spot. But ey, it seems like the Devs like to flip a coin every time they make a change. Either overbuff or overnerf, rarely something in-between.
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Distortion was nerfed purely becouse people using it were ratting and barely interacting with both their teammates and killer players.
And it shouldn't be buffed, the activation that it has now is perfectly acceptable. I don't need this playstyle to come back just to for my SoloQ teammates to be even more scared of doing something productive.
If you are really concerned about aura reading perks you can run other perks. I favour We see you from Eleven, but you still have Boon Shadowstep and OoO to help you out.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112741#Comment_4112741
It was probably just forgotten about tbh, it was added this patch and the tips were being worked on well before that and so my guess it that they forgot to double check PP head. Aside from that this would be a welcome Springtrap change honestly, it would make him a lot closer to Jason if this existed.
Edit: that is technically how his power currently works aside from the 15 second part which I am a bit confused about, since when you aren't carrying the axe it makes you no longer 4.4 and instead 4.6
Anything that makes Springtrap less like Jason should be more emphasised imo. Even if they change Springtrap this way, Jason is still on top considering his on demand mobility and bigger haste duration.
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Maybe but at the same time it could be classic Bhvr "we barely know/understand killers' powers" screw-up. Pyramid Head's visual tutorial still hasn't been updated to account for him now being able to shoot upwards as well so out of the 2, i think the ladder one is more likely.
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@tjt85 said:
I think the dev in question just had a clumsy way of articulating why they felt they needed to give Survivors a little extra warning that a beam was heading their way. Could also be an accessibility consideration (and they don't want to repeat the mistakes they made with The Spirit having nothing like that in her counter-play). I don't think it goes any deeper than that.
I'm not going to pretend I know if that's a good or bad thing for the viability of the Killer because I've not been the slightest bit interested in this upcoming community chapter. I haven't followed it. But I think it's silly to jump on one little thing that a dev said as if it represents BHVR's entire balancing philosophy for the game.
That said, I do feel like popular content creators have an outsized influence on the game sometimes. I'll see a video come out and feel like I've just seen a preview of some future patch notes, because quite often what they suggest (for better or worse) comes to pass a few months down the line.
I agree, it's not just about streamers in particular but overall adding that "little" warning to ensure that the most clueless survivors don't get bodied by getting sniped on a totem or a gen. I am not sure about accessability thing.
Maybe they thought about this as well but at the same time I didn't see anyone really complain about it and after rewatching some PtB clips, you have clear noise and visual cues. I kinda can't think of any subtle way to potentially improve that aspect without going Bhvr's route of making it extremely predictable. So idk, maybe the devs will issue a statement or something to explain it better.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110473#Comment_4110473
the difference between wesker grabbing you behind walls, annoying as it is, is that wesker is in the act of chasing you, not slinging projectiles through walls from across the map.
That's the problem with such an imposing power, it has to have strong drawbacks as well, I am in the camp of not liking the power at all to begin with, it sucks up close, often times outright sliding through people and it encourages just throwing nonsense at people not even engaged in a chase, that's less interactive as a design concept than the Knight, it literally encourages you to fling projectiles at people from a distance that aren't in chase because the projectile is so hard to hit and so janky to work with, that's an awful design concept, I don't know why people would want that personally. I think it will be one of those problems where when you play it, it's going to feel like you should be hitting things with the power but you aren't and when you play against it if you're getting absolutely no-skill sniped from across the map while doing the objective, its going to be a bad experience. either The Judgement will end up seeing play from people who learn to use its power in chase rather than gen snipe, or it will be one of the most loathed killers ever added to the game by survivors because getting hit through the wall by a questionable shot from an M1 killer is already upsetting, its going to be hell when people start complaining about getting hit from the other side of the map when on gens.
I haven't played the judgement myself, I have only seen videos of it, ultimately I may agree with you once they're released onto the main servers, but for now I can't, hard to endorse making such an outright strong power also fairly easy to hityou may be right. either way i don't like how bhvr decides to babysit players and let's hope this will end soon
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110391#Comment_4110391
bro don't talk to me like i'm an Idiot, I absolutely can be serious about this. Videos have been going around showing the problem before nerf, in some situations you would have about 0.5 seconds to react to a beam if you were on a gen. if you happen to be checking what your team is doing that matters a lot, actually. I am not trying to say that I need 3 business days to read the simple UI on the side of the screen, what I am saying is that it's already enough that you can snipe someone through a wall, it doesn't need to be near immediate. when you are dealing with those situations where you get 0.5 seconds to react, and you happen to be looking at UI, or you happen to be hitting a skill check, or any number of other things that require you to briefly divert some of your attention, you might get hit and not have reasonable time to see it coming. it doesn't have the benefit of skill like the huntress hatchet does at that range its just a straight line once people get it down that voids terrain.
Why are people angry that a killer with a much more potent power than… bear trap guy or half invisible man, is made hard to play. that's the point of killer variation. if anything too many killers changed or added in recent history are getting too much for too little (or are entirely broken in an unplayable way, shout out houndmaster) there is nothing wrong with a stronger killer that is equally hard to play. We all know why the Nurse has sat at the top for so long, lets just wait and see how Judgement does in regular gameplay and then nerf or buff it accordingly after public release.
Acting like Ping doesn't insanely affect every killer damage interaction is ridiculous by the way, its always relevant, everyone sees a fair bit of it in their games, to pretend like it isn't relevant in an issue where they're making a snipe style ranged attack more detectable is dishonest.killer being hard to play isn't the issue, survivors having an easy counterplay made easier is.
As for ping thing, yeah I agree, issue being it's not on the topic itself. My post criticizes Bhvr game design, Ping will always play some sort of role on any killer so why are we nerfing particullarly this one? Wesker on higher ping can grab you behind walls? Should we nerf him too? -
@Piruluk said:
I think certain people angry because they wanted to bypass the learning and specializing taking the game into hostage, with getting into middle and spamming beam attacks towards gens and hex totems. There was like dozens of streamer videos where their brilliant idea is to make gen sniper build, and spam button constantly. This was a potential pubstomping no brain playstyle
Judgement is far from the only noobstomper killer we have in the game, and let's be real, this isn't any different from Artist sending crows towards gens.
I can agree on hex totems being an issue on this killer but if they made this change to help with it, then it doesn't fix anything? You still need to get off the totem and the progress will be reset.
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@DodoSwarm said:
I think that using streamers as a Justification to do anything for a game is bad. that being said, think about some things that do exist in the game for everyone, since you mention it making solo queue worse… currently the only UI to know what your team is doing is on the far left side of the screen, doing a generator is one of the best times to look and see what's going on with the team… in that split second you can get sniped, some people just aren't fast enough to dodge something with almost zero warning… it's just the reality of the game.
If the killers power is gaining an advantage of sniping people through terrain without them really having time to see it coming then maybe it does need some changing. I understand that the killer is very difficult to play already, but I think its just one of those things where we'll have to see how the week or so goes after release as to whether or not certain things need to be changed.
For Example: Ping is one of the biggest and most common discrepancies in DBD, maybe previously you could see the beam coming in just enough time to react, add a little ping to the killer and you're getting hit from across map without much warning AND a faulty hitbox. I know ping is another issue entirely but it is something that can affect this killers power in a huge way. even projectile hits from the huntress with high ping can be absolutely mental on occasion.
I think The Judgement will be a case of a killer that looks weak on release but becomes more consistently strong after people have really had time to learn the ins and outs of how she interacts with everything in the game. Ultimately she isnt even in the game yet and i think itll be pretty easy to tell once she's added if her nerfs were justified or not.Bruv, you cannot be serious about this. It only should take you a quick glance to know what your team is doing. You aren't starring at UI for 29 years wondering what they are doing.
"If the killers power is gaining an advantage of sniping people through terrain without them really having time to see it coming then maybe it does need some changing." You had enough audio and visual cues on PTB to see it coming already. This is dumbing down survivor role at this point and it's impressive you managed to squeeze ping issues. Why? Ping is something not at all relevant to this topic.
The Judgement's changes are weird and make already hard killer even harder to play. Why bother with Judgement when counterplay to it is far far easier than actually play it, not to mention it will take so many hours to be even decent at it and you might as well just play Nurse or Blight and get the same results for far less effort. -
@bm33 said:
Is there a video from the discord stream of the devs saying this? I've only seen 2 people on here mention this and it seems like something that normally would've exploded on here the moment they said it on the stream.
It's on the Paulie Esther's channel. Here:
https://youtu.be/gQnC5Pi4iPw?si=4ZCNd2rFeXq4sths -
For 10th anniversary we got our 9th ranged/projectile based killer with mobility power. So yeah I agree it's power design hurting the feeling of unique chases. But after 10 years it was bound to happen one way or another. Especially if Bhvr doesn't care to expand their power concepts (RiP trap killers). But i cannot agree that every killer should have a unique feeling to their chase. This is unrealistic at this point and would constrain the devs even more. And you cannot force people to play more unique killers if they are too hard compared to the survivor counterplay, too buggy or simply too weak.
Making filler loops feel unique and valueable would help a lot as well. There too many of them and many of them are low enough that killers without anti-loop struggle to mindgame while ranged killers can just zone you out.
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Is this a serious post? You are complaining how lightborn removes the interactivity between you and the killer forcing you to... do gens instead of trying to get a flashie save? One guy gets chased, the rest gets on the gens. That's how DbD works, you save the match by being efficent on gens, bringing team related perks, dying far away from teammates and allowing them to stay on hook for more than 3s. When was the last time you brought Shoulder? Or Reassurance? Or Kindred?
If you are geniuenly quitting over this, then good riddance. I cannot stand flashie users wasting 29 years of gen progress to try and get a flashie save, to then just fail and in the worst case getting themselves killed as well
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I am indifferent to them, as long as the map isn't filled with them like on Greenvile.
The variations of double pallet around benches and rocks is very good, whereas the variation with 2 trees and a rock in-between is way more unsafe and you have to predrop one of the pallets while in chase. Kinda wished they would even out this aspect of this type of filler loop.
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Unreleting, Bloodhound, Iron Grasp and Distressing
+ add-ons Spasmodic Breath and White Nit Comb
Good luck :) -
@AliceNull said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104919#Comment_4104919
It wouldn't still be too overpowered, in fact you could straight up remove the scream and exposed downsides if you made it actually an anti-tunnel perk with the double hook requirement. The problem with shoulder isn't that its too good at anti-tunnel, its too good at removing pressure from killers playing normally.
Yes grass is green I know. If it had the double hook requirement, I could see it not needing a downside.
I could also see it having a downside to be a good thing. The guy who got shouldered is the weak link so you want the unhooker to be enticing to chase. Either way I don't have a prefrence, just something I thought about.
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It should have some kind of activation condition. Actives after you unhook someone or actives after the same survivor has been hooked twice.
Something to make constant rotating hooks in SwFs harder and anticipating the perk much easier.
If the perk is still too overpowered, the 40s of exposed should be changed for something more impactful imo.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104693#Comment_4104693
Huh? No new franklins actually gives people an incentive to go back for their item. Old was just it's gone and a waste of time to go for since it'll probably have at most like 20% left.
Yeah becouse it's beyond useless. The only thing going for it was to drain medkits and it cannot do that
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Begging to have Badham 3 instead of 1 is like asking to cut off 3 fingers instead of the whole hand. All variations of Badham are questionably balanced. Dedicating an update to reworking many maps and realms would be great.
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Best way imo is to make her 4.6m
Reduce the slowdown after teleporting to a trap.
Then make wiping traps away take more and more time, obviously it would have a cap on it but yeah. I think it would be a good way to modernize her a bit.
If she is still mediocre and clunky, I think a bigger rework should be discussed.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4102642#Comment_4102642
Survivor perk design has reached critical point where the effort you have to put to get these ridiculous effects is laughable.
Meh, you are talking about Perks which are years old here. Perks were simpler back then. Todays Perk Design, especially for Survivor, is that you have to do a lot of time waste for an effect which is not worth the time wasted.
And lets not act as if Killer Perks like Deadlock, Corrupt Intervention or Pain Resonance really require that effort to use.
In my post i was more so referring to the meta perks, not every single perk created nowadays. Should have made it clearer tbh
Eh, I think overall perk design is falling apart due to just how many we have compared to how simple dbd is. I agree survivors get affected more just becouse we have a higher number of them compared to killers.
Pain Res, Deadlock and Corrupt aren't what they used to be in terms of strength. I kinda prefer the modern versions of latter 2. Facing builds with deadlock, noed, corrupt was never very interesting or fun. Pain Res can be wasted, you still need to down the survivor then judge if going for further scourge hook is worth it. I see quite a bit of people mismanaging this perk.
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For SB + Vigil combo, most mobility killers/top tiers do not care. It is unbelievably easy and busted as it gives you a good headstart/ability to reach safety for majority of the match against any killer that doesn't have a good mobility tool to close this distance. And this is the majority of killer players that do complain. And this combo is only getting toned down, SB and Vigil will still be in top 10 best survivor perks.
Survivor perk design has reached critical point where the effort you have to put to get these ridiculous effects is laughable. Killers do not really have any equivalences aside possibly NOED. You can reset yourself in 4s with resurgence (1.5s if you have lend a hand), pick up slugged teammates quickly and give them huge chunk of endurance, prolong the hook stage to 100s etc. My biggest concern when playing survivor isn't facing Nurse etc but hoping my teammates have a braincell or 2.
As for Ghoul. Putting aside how Nurse, Billy, Blight and Twins are better than him and should be looked at first, a soft rework encouraging actually cutting off people with your power should be made. But with how most average survivor teams aren't comfortable being injured I doubt Ghoul will ever be loved by the wider survivor community even if he became some low B tier killer
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I play Freddy.
Playstyle: Generally i try to set up couple of fake pallets in places of stronger filler pallets, choke points and loops while seeking survivors immediately. Tunneling is something i try not to do unless I can already tell early into the match that i am playing against a good team. I do slug quite a bit. I think it is a key tactic to make Freddy work against best teams. Using your teleport in the most efficent way possible, travelling across map in seconds while the other survivors have to run to save their slugged teammate is so underused. Same goes for using teleport in chases.
Perks: I do not run information perks for the most part. I find them a bit redundant when you already more or less have developed a game sense on where survivors could be. My favourite perk is Coup. Works great with Freddy snares and makes playing around Vigil a bit easier.
Builds: I usually run Pain Res, Fire up, Coup, Turn back the clock. I find it good enough for the games to last more than 5 min but not good enough to carry you. If i am in a more sweaty mindset i just slap on Hexes: Ruin; Thrill; Face the Darkness. Then i add in Coup or Pain Res depending how confident i feel. If i see a lot of medkits i just choose Hex Undying or BBQ instead of Hex Face the Darkness. My 3rd build that i enjoy is Endgame build. Terminus, No way out, Remember Me and BBQ with the Class photo add-on. I try to locate the obssession with BBQ and try to get them out as soon as possible, of course I don't tunnel immediately I still want some fun in Endgame. I find Endgame builds with Deadlock to just carry you too much. I think Endgame builds should test how quick can you get the necessary downs before all gens pop and Deadlock makes it a bit too easy to achieve this.
Mentality: I always strive to win. I take it less seriously when I go for Endgame builds. I don't slug for 4k. Killer queues are too long to try that and I find it unnecessary. If the survivor finds the hatch, that's ok. I don't particularly care for 3 gens due to the gen kick limit, unless i am playing on Dead Dawg. You are just begging to have a stalemate of a match for 20min that you are going to lose against any decent team. As for survivors. I generally despise people acting cocky while running the most meta perks ever. Like wow you have Plot Twist + DS combo and the other guy just used Shoulder on you, i was totally outskilled and not outperked. I don't like playing with or against survivors with selfish builds with Sole Survivor. Mosty becouse it boils down to "ok my team is struggling, time to hide. I can open the gate in 8s, hehe dumb killer". Team based game btw
I know that the DBD stats tracker isn't the most accurate thing ever but here it is. I think most games go well for me, but let's face it, it's becouse of the wanky MMR system. With this current meta and pallet density, my pants take on a brown colour the moment i think about a more accurate system.
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@ArtGueds said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4101567#Comment_4101567
The difference is that pallet density actually feels balanced, unlike the obvious ######### designs you just named. The only big problem is gideon and badham, that has a ######### ton of pallets. But I can name more deadmaps than broken op maps. Midwich, can have a whole side of the map a deadzone, as well as a seemingly non logical gen spawn. That map from vecna dnd is legit egregious design for suvivor. So much so that it made a random legion playing on console beat the best survivor team on a 200 win streak
It doesn't feel balanced. Also let's not underplay the pallet density becouse "omg look the dnd and midwitch maps suck". There are like 5 maps in dbd that are actually killer sided compared to half of the maps being affected by pallet density.
I wish bhvr would dedicate an entire midchapter to reworking maps (maybe i could actually see swamp rework before i die of old age) reworking them so we don't have outliers like midwitch and badham and fixing pallet spawning bug on indoor maps as well.
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They did the most bare minimum change ever. If they would remove the lingering effect and hindered from it on top of the number adjustment I think the perk would be much fairer.
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@ArtGueds said:
pallet density right now feels more balanced than ever considering the nerfs they made to loops in general, I dont know if you ever played this game before 2020 but it was way worse
By the logic of "but it used to be worse" people should not complain about Nurse no more cause she used to have up to 7 blinks. We shouldn't even complain about how braindead vigil is now, we had og MoM afterall.
I don't really know why the OP complains about RPD since it wasn't affected by pallet density, but man i don't care if the filler loops are technicly weaker. I still have to spent more time playing around them then before this "quality of life change" since they are now way more of them.
Best example- Shattered Square. Usually around 16 pallets spawning and 3 or 4 pallets chaining into Shack. Man what a fun map to play on as anything but Nurse.
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I don't think he's remarkable in any way aside being the most beginner friendly killer. Not a killer with very high skill celling but he does hold up pretty well all things considered. Can be played with hit&run effectively on any map, has good add-ons, great mobility, good stealth, can use almost all perk types.
Like most killers these days (especially after many buffs to healing and nerfs to anti-healing perks) he does deserve buffs, at least blue versions of Swift Hunt & Shadow Dance.
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Eh, for me the amoung of tunneling during and after anniversary was pretty much the same. There was an exception for one xeno gamer with a vault build that couldn't care less about turrets and just targeted me the entire match.
Expecting majority of killers to not tunnel or be brutally efficient in this survivor meta is such a quoxotic mindset. I'd suggest running some hook/anti-tunnel related perks if you or your teammates struggle.
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I like the idea, I still have some issues.
-If the toolbox repair speeds aren't toned down, the hacksaws aren't gonna see much use.
-I would just leave the 2 best hacksaw items and scrap the rest. If someone is gonna go for a sabo build, they will use the best ones. Also survivor bloodweb is already filled with too many garbage offerings and add-ons.
-I assume that hacksaws have charges like Fog Vials. Wouldn't it kill synergy with Built to last, a perk common in these types of builds and how would that work for hooks? Do you still waste a charge even if you got interrupted while sabotaging?
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The skin makes her beyond quiet. Not even werebeast skin or whatever it's called was this bad. You can barely hear her vault as well.
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I own him, I played him a lot when he came out. Now I rarely use him, I think he just became incredibly outdated. His add-ons aren't particularly interesting, the pay-off for actually grabbing his box being 10s of guaranteed chainhunt is laughable, his chase power is weird and you have to be mindful how and when you want to use it.
Definitely still a decent killer, but why would you play him when you can get the same or better results with Blight for half of the effort.
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A new killer powercreeping older release in the same archetype? Woah, completely unexpected.
Some people raised the point that Afton has more vertical projectile, but unless you are using Freddy's hat, the orbitals are too inconsistant.
I think you could do a more radical rework to Springtrap, with him being either fully 115 or smth between it and 110 movement speed. We make Freddy's hat fully base-kit and allow him to be faster while holding m2 since either way his zoning is almost dead with this add-on. You could make him fully undetectable until you reveal him through cameras as well.
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You expect too much. By the 1v4 nature of DbD any fun Killer builds aren't very viable unless playing against potato survivors, especially after the diminishing returns update. There some fun & viable perks like Furtive Chase or Coup that you can slap on and get great value tho.
As for actual fun builds, I think you could try a skill check Doctor build, an endgame build with Chucky with his Portable TV add-on or full chase Xeno build (with the Bolt and Acid blood add-on, Bamboozle, Unbound, Brutal, Enduring).
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@Ingway said:
Ok, guys, so… after a long PTB and a couple days of Jason-non-stop, I guess it's time we talk about his balancing needs. As of now, he's around 7.41% pick rate and 30.23% 4-kills-rate (which, surprisingly, is higher than Kaneki, considering many players are deeming Jason as a "Tier A Killer", while Kaneki is "Tier A+/S- Killer").
Here are some of my observations so far.
- His Omnipresent Evil mode needs higher cooldown. The reason being that… contrary to initial belief, Jason sinergizes really well with a lot of gen regression perks, gen blockage perks, haste perks, totem perks, anti-healing perks, you name it (and I'm not even talking about his addons). On top of that, this special mode allows him to travel really fast through the map, apply pressure in multiple survivors and even allow him to abuse slugging, due to the nature of his power, that forces people to crouch, losing speed in the process and thus taking longer to rescue allies. It's paramount that his special mode gets a longer cooldown and is used strategically.
- Interactions with survivors perks. As of now, there is not a single survivor perk that "helps" against him. People are using two perks in specific, Urban Evasion and Calm Spirit. Urban Evasion is "ok" if you want to move around and avoid detection by his red-mist mechanic… but Calm Spirit, Idk if it's intended, but there is some interactions that are, imo, bugged. As we all know, Jason gets killer instinct everytime he exits O-E mode, meaning survivors cannot hide in lockers to avoid detection. Some reports have been saying that survivors are screaming even with Calm Spirit equipped, even inside lockers. Now… I don't know if that is true (the locker part), but I have tested and I screamed when I was near another survivor, even though I had Calm Spirit. Calm Spirit specifically says that "you do not scream", which translates to "you do not scream under any circumstance".
My suggestion is: tie his Killer Instinct to the screaming action, and fix this Calm Spirit bug.
Calm Spirit = 1 less "OP perk" by survivors, which pairs really well with Jason builds sinergies.
This won't turn Jason's life a living hell while also helping survivors (that want to be helped) to avoid easy detection.
I do believe these small changes will balance things out. I've been watching some streamers too, and a lot of people are struggling against Jason, from different countries, different gameplay levels, and it's not like Jason requires "a university degree" to understand how to play against him and with him, so… the only explanation lies in the numbers. What are your thoughts on the situation?People running Urban Evasion and Calm Spirit to deal with Jason's OE power is the most clear example of why my soloq teammates sucks. Half of the survivor playerbase just avoids trying to learn the counterplay, prefering to rely on perks even if they suck and Bhvr's "QoL" updates to carry them. Not a single survivor perk should diminish a killer's power. Jason players can sleep well knowing that thankfully these 2 perks are so bad and aren't dealbreakers (unlike a certain perk from Quentin)
As for Jason. Imo he might be almost perfect. I wouldn't tweak him much aside the anti-camp panelty which is too high. The OE cooldown is set at 12s from what i am seeing. Could be 15s but still very reasonable considering he has to look for spots to reload at and unlike the bat form, he cannot just cancel it at any spot. I would just leave him alone for next 2 months and after that, see if he could use some tweaks.
- His Omnipresent Evil mode needs higher cooldown. The reason being that… contrary to initial belief, Jason sinergizes really well with a lot of gen regression perks, gen blockage perks, haste perks, totem perks, anti-healing perks, you name it (and I'm not even talking about his addons). On top of that, this special mode allows him to travel really fast through the map, apply pressure in multiple survivors and even allow him to abuse slugging, due to the nature of his power, that forces people to crouch, losing speed in the process and thus taking longer to rescue allies. It's paramount that his special mode gets a longer cooldown and is used strategically.
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@Teroo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089615#Comment_4089615
Dracula moves slower than Jason, unlike Jason has no in-build free tracking and survivors can clearly see where he's coming from and can pre-run, which you can't do against Jason
Spirit's phase last 5 seconds, not indefinitely like in Jason's case, and then goes on 15 seconds cooldown, which makes this comparison laughable
Dracula has built-in tracking tho? You do hear footsteps louder than your average killer. Also since when is prerunnig the bat form the correct play every time? He can stay in this form for how long he desires and has a teleport to catch up. I can see the argument if you are trying to get to a resource but stealthing the bat is very much a better play if you see him coming.
You were this close to actually getting the Spirit thing right, holy cow. Yea Spirit can cancel immediately and hit you SO this is balanced by the limited duration of phasing. Jason cannot cancel however he pleases SO he gets to stay in his form forever. If Jason could cancel immediately from his mobility power with no limited duration, it would make him very oppressive. The comparison was to highlight to the person complaining about Jason ability to stay in his mobility power forever that since he cannot just cancel and m1 immediately like Spirit can, he very much should be compensated in other sections which the ability to stay forever in his mobility form is just that compensation. This power is well thought out while The Dracula bat comparison was there to present the wrong idea of mixing these traits till you get Spirit 2.0 that throws every common sense of killer design out of the window.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089615#Comment_4089615
Yeah, but Spirit has no ranged weapon or sees you pretty much whatever you do, also, she can be heard approaching. Dracula can be seen easily and doesn't have a clear indicator of where survivors are. Jason sees you whether you move or not.
Issue being that if you have nothing to play around you will be getting hit so it doesn't matter that she can be heard. Yea she doesn't have one, she just phases near you and then hits you. Idk how you can complain about such a precise projectile that can be easily wasted but still somehow Jason is the bigger offender is terms of bad killer design.
Dracula can just hear your footsteps, see scratchmarks and grass moving. He really doesn't need to see you. Just becouse you can see him doesn't invalidate how he can catch up immediately after a hit, cancel bat then m1 or pressure you with his chase powers. Also he can stay in the bat form forever if he wishes to, can shapeshift in and out of this form as he pleases. You wanna talk about that my dud? These are like your main points on how Jason's mobilty tool is obnoxious+added free pressure from the bat form cooldowns.
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@Z0mbiv0r said:
So you're fine with him having unlimited map traversal with no way to know where he's coming from?
Yeah, unlike Spirit or Dracula he cannot just cancel it and hit you.
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Krasue. Geniuenly I want to pull my hair out when I load into the match with mashrooms spawning around me.
Basicly undodgable projectile, the texas sized head hitbox, dissolution making her a nightmare to be chased by unless your soloq teammates bodyblock her which rarely happens. Overall braindead gameplay that makes Wraith players look like masterminds
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@TicTac said:
Nurse is, atleast with the last Blight nerf, clearly the strongest killer in the game.
Some other killer have different mechanics to keep their power in check, which of those would be in your opinion work for Nurse without making her awful to play?
- Infect first/triple hit (for example Nemesis, Unknown)
- Limited Power (for example Oni, Myers)
- Items to reduce the power (for example Singularity, Xeno)
Blindness when charging power and reducing the range of the second blink to 10m.
If this does not put her more in line with other killers, then tweak power cooldown accordingly.
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- Predator. I'd love to have devs to take a shot at a trap based killer or killer with a command grab. Imagine catching dead on hook survivor with it and ripping their spine out.
- The Thing. The best choice for a mimic killer.
- The Grudge. Add another spooky ghost lady, why not.
For sequel chapters, 3rd RE chapter with Jack Baker and Alien part 2 (either based on Romulus or Alien 3).
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083236#Comment_4083236
Proof that most killers have gotten used to using reshade as a crutch and can't play without their neon red filter winning the game for them.
Remember Jason has an addon that removes his terror radius upon picking up a spear so you can win mind games for free. If you want to call out a survivor perk for being broken, do the same for Jason by running only a rare addon, while still running 4 slowdown.
Reshades shouldn't be a thing imo.
As for undetectable, there is a difference. As a survivor it's much easier to track killer (especially if they are tall like jason) with your 3rd person camera. Undetectable doesn't give you free mindgames (especially if you are playing a tall character), otherwise GF wouldn't be so bad and everyone would run undetectable perks.
The add-on you are referring to gives Jason ONLY 9s of undetectable. If you geniuenly got cought off guard with this add-on, maybe you shouldn't speak on dbd's balance.
The necessity of slowdown in current survivor meta cannot be understated even with how 80% of the killer slowdown perks are shadows of their former self. As i understand diminishing returns does affect slowdown perks as well. If Bhvr wants killers to run more diverse builds, nerf slowdown perks in a way to discourage stacking them and buff both the weaker ones like surge, cob or grim embrace and chase perks stbfl, unbound etc
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In what servers are you in?
I see Blights often, not as overwhelmingly as before but still. The killer went from contesting Nurse for the title of THE BEST killer to now being more in line and contesting being a second best killer in the game.
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No, DS now deactives when working on a gen so this crucial aspect of the combo is dead. DS stun is weaker as well so it is not worth to use up your "last ace up my sleeve" tool on it. It can be useful if you are dead on hook and the tunneling killer wants to outwait DS.
To add salt to the wound, many killers have mobility tools and can afford to leave you slugged while they focus on someone else, so forcing small pp build is just not worth it.
New small pp build is Plot Twist and DS, cause you are forcing the killer to either eat DS or have fully healed survivor. Not to mention greater potential for pallet saves with SwF.