dbd900bach
dbd900bach
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117496#Comment_4117496
It teaches map layouts, which is a starting point for learning the rest of looping. There is no looping if you just run into an area with no resources and if you are not looping then you are not learning looping. What beginner perks were buffed? And if you are referring to the minor number tweaks on the lower tiers of the general perks those will do nothing for helping a player learn the game. When teaching people the game the build we usually give someone includes windows and deja vu because these perks show them where to find the primary elements you interact with in a match as a survivor.
Are they actually though? That's the idea sure, and with so many maps with often confusing layouts, windows is definitely a massively useful perk. However, by itself it teaches new players to waste resources. They see pallets everywhere and will waste all of them in a single chase. I don't think beginniners should even have this perk until they understand resource management and basic looping.
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They're not exactly beginner perks in my opinion. Yes, they're extremely useful information perks that make traversing the map during chase much less daunting even for experienced players. However, its a doesn't teach new players how to loop or manage resources. It encourages the opposite with no guidance. Its a crutch.
However, actual beginner perks were buffed quite a bit to actually help newer players. I think thats more important than focusing on two perks that require money to get that new players aren't guaranteed to get at all or even know about so their importance as beginner friendly perks isn't actually that important.
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Its an apple and oranges question. When people bring up these sort of discussion, its often asked within the assumption that both roles are the same or share similarities when they don't.
The killer is an individual player that dictates the entire match. They make every decision on their end, and its their job to kill the four survivors.
Survivors on the other hand have to rely on each other and interact with each other to escape. If one survivor is killed early, the killer has already won and it becomes impossible to do all five gens.
Tunneling out a survivor drastically hurts all the survivors and their chance to escape while rushing three gens in the beginning doesn't automatically make it a loss for the killer. Realistically, its the killers fault for letting those gens fly and not spreading enough pressure.
If the survivors fun matters to you as a killer, then that is your choice. Otherwise play how you want. If you want to care about the killers fun, or blame their actions on your ability to have fun, then go ahead. Just don't pretend either is even remotely similar to the other.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4105489#Comment_4105489
Have you had problems with 180 flicks on controller?
Sincerely, A Controller Player
Unlike the the Oni 180 which could be reliably be done on mouse while impossible on controller, the Judgment 180 is different because its stupidly difficult on both ends. You have to look away to make the 180 flick and reliably still hit the survivor who can see what you're doing clear as day. Controller is no different while still having minor limitations making it more difficult.
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Its more of a perspective issue than anything. The way his arm is in the way while aiming messes quite a few people up, as well as the trajectory. In reality, its centered no different that Huntesses hatchest.
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While he would be a bit stronger, it would oddly make no difference in the area he's actually struggling in. That being dead zones. Generators with no lockers near them are the weaker points for Dredge because he can't put pressure on them.
The locks aren't the issue. They're the only tool survivors have to defende against him, but far many maps have about abundant lack of lockers for him to effectively use his power.
My suggestion would be undetectable when exiting a locker as well as the locker being silenced while out of nightfall. It only makes noise when the locker is locked further adding to the importance of locking them. My only worry is that change having too much crossover with Springtrap.
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@Memesis said:
Oh the horror! Not the survivor's unlimited god mode having a work around!
Fair enough. They stop trying to dodge too so its a free hit, wall pin or execution
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Most of the killer roster is outdated and need updates. Jason would be considered broken a few years back, but he's just a little over perfectly balanced in the current game.
Huntress hasn't changed a whole lot. Aside Iri head, she's actually stronger than her previous version which was in the top 3 for strongest killers. Pallet density and map updates have made her power pretty obsolete. Jason only has the upper hand because of his map mobility, otherwise Huntress has a faster time to down.
Killers are struggling because most of them don't function well in the game anymore. Rather than nerfing Jason and survivors to all hell, why is it such a bad idea to try and bring other killers to a higher level to compete with the current game?
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These sort of statements always feel like they've made with the assumption that Behavior actively chose to not make a map. Resources are already being pledged to the new mall map we're getting at the end of the year, and Crystal Lake might not even fall within Jason Universe.
The short answer is that they can't. Not won't, but can't.
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While I can agree that Omnipresent evil is in need of a longer cool down, the spike hitbox is fine as is. Its already pretty small compared a killer like Huntress and requires a lot if deliberate finesse to get around LOS blockers. If its made any smaller, then it begins to become redundant and boring because no one is going for skill shots anymore. Even then, people would still complain because then its hitting even more ridiculous shots that it just shouldn't be.
When it comes to tunneling though, its difficult to find a good solution to discourage that playstyle while not punishing players who aren't tunneling. That, or giving survivors protection that can't be abused offensively against Jason. Plus there are instances in which tunneling becomes accidental or is the result of a survivor making a poor decision. Sometimes its just coincidence, and not even intentional.
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The big issue is that survivors who are skilled enough can intentionally abuse the auto-aim against the killer to make them miss. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but a killer should miss because they missed. Not because a flawed system is making them miss.
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I find it weird we keep going in this weird loop of someone asking about the The Creeper and then bringing up who the creator of that character is.
It doesn't matter if he doesn't own the license or doesn't receive any finacial gain anymore, its a tainted IP. Most people agree with that sentiment, and the devs have it pretty clear they have no intention of adding Jeepers Creepers to the game.
Another way to look at it, is that its probably dirt cheap to get the license. Extremely easy. However, no reputable studio or company has for years, and when we did get another movie, it was extremely bad. I wish people would stop asking because its never going to happen, and if it does, no one will buy it.
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@DavidByDaylight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088822#Comment_4088822
This is not true.
Of course people don’t know how to deal with a killer that has just been released, or in what situations they will use their power. That’s completely normal.
If that's true, then the exact same logic applies to the person playing the new killer. They don't know how to use the power optimally yet either. So why does an inexperienced killer always have such an easy time steamrolling inexperienced survivors when first released? The learning curve goes both ways.
But I’m honestly tired of people immediately shouting “too strong” and “nerf them” every time a new killer is released.
Have you considered that maybe they are actually that strong? We've seen it time and time again: BHVR releases a purposely overtuned, "pay-to-win" killer just to drive DLC sales, and then hits them with a nerf a few weeks later once they've made their money.
While the learning curve does go both ways, another factor to keep in mind is that these are not brand new mechanics that we're dealing with. His projectile is very much like Deathslingers while curving like a half charged Huntress hatchet. Its not far fetched for killer players who have experience to have an easier time picking Jason up.
Also the devs have often only nerfed as needed when chapters come out. Ghoul is a prime example of a killer that the devs were actually very hesitant to nerf. They've been micro nerfing him this entire time because he was too strong, but also because of how annoying he was to face. There's also a good handful who have received immediate buffs after release, and even more buffs later on. I remember Dracula being buffed out the gate and it took months before he received any proper nerfs. Today he still sits very comfortably in A tier.
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Unfortunately this is a horror game. At best, I can agree that perhaps there should be an option to disable certain phobic features in the game, replaced with less agitating varients. Like black smoke for Weskers power instead of his tendrils, and muting Plagues vomit audio.
That only goes so far though. As nice as the sentiment is to help everyone enjoy the game in every way possible, its not possible. People play the game in its entirety or not at all as with almost every other game.
Plus, Art isn't particularly special among the rest of the roster. Each killer is disturbing in their own right to an uncommon degree. Springtrap is a child killer who stuffed their corpses into animatronic suits while trying to achieve immortality. Freddy is in the same boat, a child killer who uses people's fears to kill them in the worst ways they can imagine. Leatherface is a literal cannibal who dismembers and guts people like they're beef.
Arts violence is over the top and sadistic, but not special.
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@Cornil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088538#Comment_4088538
Guess they should rework him to not get killer instinct and get an aura read instead. I'm well aware that his ability gives killer instinct, my question was does his teleport activate on survivors in lockers, because if he uses that ability and a survivor is crouched he's intended to get no scream and no killer instinct. So, did the devs forget to program lockers the same way? I've never screamed in a locker before except for when the perk Ultimate Weapon got bugged years ago and was causing hiding survivors to scream
There is a misconception here on Jasons power. Crouching only ensures that he can't see or hear the survivors while using his power. No red mist and no red steps. There is no way for Jason to know a survivor is there without making an educated guess.
When he teleports out of his power to appear, crouching doesn't counter his jump scare. No matter what, any survivor caught in that radius will scream and be revealed by killer instinct. If there is a loading tip that says otherwise, then its a bug, but if not, then locker aren't very safe against Jason.
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When Jason uses Omnipresent Evil to teleport and appear, killer instinct activates, giving him the exact location of each survivor in his jump scare radius.
Killer instinct has been in the game for a long time and it has always bypassed lockers. Lockers only hide a survivors aura, but it doesn't block killer instinct.
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I bulk spent 11 million BP and only got 10 Party Streamers. Definitely a lot less common.
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Anyone unhappy is just in denial about it not being Pennywise even though its pretty obvious that King won't make a deal.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087656#Comment_4087656
should do a few modes, like he gets a few eapons to choose from and they have diffrent effects, like you said. however a mori idea is he taps the survivor on the shoulder, starts doing a magic trick and does that one trick where you pull flags out but instead its a shotgun or some weapon
Art is more a mime than a clown. Magic tricks aren't his thing, nor does he ever use a shotgun in the films. He uses a gun I think maybe two times. Once when he was human to kill himself, and another time in the third movie.
Compared to his many overly sadistic kills, anything involving a gun is wasted potential.
He's a very creative killer in the films.
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Art is a supernatural sadistic killer with a demon on his shoulder. There is no shortage of weapons for him to choose from, or potential abilities with no obligation to stay rooted in "reality." Anyone thinking he's limited knows nothing about Art the Clown.
Its very likely he'll get multiple weapons with varying hindrances on the survivors, and I have no doubt at all that he'll receive a bit of help from the demon.
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Thinking back to how the original sounded compared to more modern music, no.
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They'd be 10 dollars minimum. You have to factor in the time it takes to make a Mori, the labor and time.
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I think they're using the showcase to their advantage to gather data on maps. I could be wrong though since ideally they would be trying to gather data on the least popular maps, or the most problematic.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082123#Comment_4082123
The bold and polarizing take: Trickster should be nerfed so Survivors don't have to deal with a slow as bricks, loud as hell, ranged killer that needs 6 hits within 3-5 business days to deal damage. Not every Trickster is Wacek, my friend.
Trickster is not even at that level to justify nerfing him. Yes he's annoying, but he's not stalling out games like original Skull Merchant, nor is he destroying lobbies left, and right.
I enjoy playing Trickster, and getting better at him is just a time investment. Anyone can be as good as Wacek if they want to put in the time, so completely disregarding Waceks skill is not a good perspective.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082123#Comment_4082123
Trickster is worst 110 killer, only thing he is good at is shreading survivors health states but on very low loops where he can shoot over or in open area and thats it just range slower version of bubba nothing more.
I find it strange that projectile killers like huntress or trickster that heavily depend on their power that is limited and is gain/recharged from lockers which are huge rng inconsistent in place, arent 115 speed when they have no projectiles left or few of them like trickers having less then 6 to take health state.
I think this is very reasonable change that should have happened long time ago. I think even slinger could be 115 speed when he has no shell loaded because he has very long cooldowns and has no mobility unlike springtrap. But slinger has atleast good antillop compare to huntress and trickster and he doesnt need to go out of his way to locker to gain his power which is very outdated mechanic.Nothing changes fact that tricksters is currently worst 110 speed killer and argument “but if he hits every knife he is very good”. Yeah and huntress with this logic is even better, henry is ss-tier or god tier with nurse, pyramidhead and unknown are top a-tiers and slinger is a-tier/high a-tier too if he doesnt miss single shot and many other killers do on these but if he doesnt miss, these things arent realistic in human exetution (because no one newer hits every shot and when he does its nothing consistent because even the best players miss) unless you have killer played by bot who is like first 2v8 nurse bot that almost newer missed and there were people winning games just by with this bot alone (still many powers can be doged conpare to nurse blink due to their travel speed or delay like on phead or henry so this “but if he doesnt miss” isnt even realistic on a bot tbh because its not like point and click like in csgo where bullet travels there instantly or other shooting game with this mechanics).
I used the word lethal, not good. I never stated at all whether that Trickster was a good killer, but that he was the most lethal killer under the right circumstances, technically.
He's also way better than people give him credit for, something evident with Trickster mains like Wacek who make Trickster an A tier killer. He also has a nasty glitch where he can get hits through walls as well.
Anyways, I'm only comparing possible lethality and why mobility is what automatically makes Jason better than Trickster. Jasons ttk with his projectile into M1 or another projectile is overall lower than Tricksters possible ttk of 1.5 - 2 seconds. Obviously I'm speaking in a theoretical sense and not as if it can happen multiple times in every game. Why do I have to clarify that?
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082123#Comment_4082123
That is definitely a hot take I cannot agree with sorry I do not think Trickster is more lethal then Jason
I did say technically. Even pre-trickster still had the fastest ttk in the game, but was still a terrible killer. The same goes for now. He's technically incredibly lethal and without line of sight blockers, will always get a down. I think his full potential without missing is maybe 1.5 or 2 seconds at S rank, but he falls really short without good mobility.
He's 4.4 and even has a lullaby.
Jason is a better killer and overall is more lethal. The origanl point though was that Jason isn't a good comparison to justify pushing changes. Huntress and Deathslinger in that regard are no different, and can be used as comparison since they're projectile ranged killers.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082123#Comment_4082123
That is definitely a hot take I cannot agree with sorry I do not think Trickster is more lethal then Jason
I did say technically. Even pre-trickster still had the fastest ttk in the game, but was still a terrible killer. The same goes for now. He's technically incredibly lethal and without line of sight blockers, will always get a down. I think his full potential without missing is maybe 1.5 or 2 seconds at S rank, but he falls really short without good mobility.
He's 4.4 and even has a lullaby.
Jason is a better killer and overall is more lethal. The origanl point though was that Jason isn't a good comparison to justify pushing changes. Huntress and Deathslinger in that regard are no different, and can be used as comparison since they're projectile ranged killers.
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Like previous comments have already said, its a really complicated issue still, and this was basically the devs only way in. If the devs could have gotten their hands on more, they would have unless it was not worth the headache. Massive delays, and getting more people involved to cause further delay is a nightmare.
What I hope is that this is the first hurdle. Getting their foot in the door and the chapter on lock. Now negotiating will have no negative impact on the game, but will still leave possibility for more Jason skins.
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Not really. Trickster is somewhat in his own little corner that isn't easily compared to other killers. He's projectile killer, but thats where the similarities end.
Technically, Trickster is actually more lethal than Jason with a much faster TTK provided he hits all of his knives and reaches B - S rank. He's also far more lethal at shorter loops with no line of sight blockers. You could even make the argument that Jason's projectile is weaker because he actually gives the survivor more distance in open areas since they're pushed so far back.
The actual big difference that makes Jason better is map mobility. A killer with mobility will always outclass a killer that has none like Trickster.
Basically Jason isn't a good comparison to judge whether or not Trickster needs buffs. Trickster does need changes, but not in the spirit of being stronger. He's miserable for survivors to go against, so thats where changes should be made, so both sides have fun. Thats never going to happen but its a better perspective than playing the comparison game to push changes.
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Mandy has stated that making tons of changes to the game alongside introducing a chapter in the same ptb causes a lot of problems, but also takes a lot of feedback attention away from the chapter. This ptb is only for the Jason chapter, nothing else.
I believe its not so much there isn't more changes in future updates that they want to show us, but more so that this just isn't the time for that.
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Animations are never worth complaining about when the chapter is still in PTB state. They're guaranteed to be polished and will look much better upon release vs now.
As for the power, Omnipotent Evil is really cool and on brand for Jason. He's brutal, powerful and really does embody what it means to be the OG slasher.
The spike is middle ground. Disregarding whether or not it suits Jason, it does look incredibly fun. It has a lot of power behind it as survivors are thrown a considerable distance from the force alone. The three mori's are amazing and are really on brand in my opinion for what the chapter is, and what Behavior has to work with.
In terms of how Jason looks, its not amazing, but I think its secretly genius. Depending on what they have access in terms of his various looks, they will make a killing off of his purchasable cosmetics. Not just to have their favorite slasher look, but also ditch the not so great base look.
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@VilerOfCool said:
In my opinion his power looks cool to me and has some fun concepts, though they could have done so much more with it and had so much more fun with it.
I am more angry at the quality in his animations.Anything can be polished and the ptb is not meant to be a polished version for release. All animations will likely see significant improvement before release
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While I agree the stream should have never been announced, it was most definitely a successful marketing tactic. Among all platforms and streamers, it was close to 100k watching this event unfold.
One of the gripes I hear is that people have to work. My answer is that not everyone has to work, and a good chunk normally have the weekends off with the exception of retail based jobs, among others. My second answer is getting priorities and risk. If you're willing to risk being dead at work the next day, thats purely on you, and realistically a video game should also fall below work priorities.
It made very little difference to me because I knew I was going to know who the killer was in the morning and I would be able to watch plenty reactions.
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@ChurchofPig said:
I know a lot of people are saying "He's gonna be Trapper 2.0" but I don't think the devs will do that. Even killers like Springtrap that have parts that feel very (insert killer here) 2.0 are still very different mechanically. Idk a lot about Jason because the only Friday the 13th I've seen was the first one and I funnily enough watched it on my birthday an undisclosed amount of years ago because I was born on the 13th and it was a friday. So I thought, what better time to watch it than now? Though I want to actually watch the ones with Jason as the killer.
The Trapper 2.0 is uttered by anyone who is going heavily off of "Trapper is a stand-in for Jason", while knowing next to nothing about the actual films.
In the entire original franchise, Jason hasn't ever actuallty set a trap. The reboot 2009 Jason set one trap. Jason is not even remotely close to a trap adjecent killer. I really feel like the people reducing Jason to just a guy with a machete severally lack any sort of creativity.
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I don't know exactly what skins are under who, but I believe the way it was described is that most versions of Jason from films 1 - 8 are on the table because they are part of Jason Universe. However, there is a handful still under New Line Cinema which falls under the F13 umbrella. That includes Uber Jason unfortunately.
I could be completely wrong.
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What exactly are they suppose to do? The anniversary stream is still a couple weeks away which is a pretty long time. I think its the perfect time to let things progress slowly rather than trying to blow up an event that we won't even get to play for two weeks.
Plus, ciphers and clues are fun to a majority of people. The majority usually matters more.
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Its all about the bigger picture. Does it kind of suck that certain builds and combos are no longer as effective? Yes, but in the long run, all of these perks will be buffed. Buffed to the point of being individually worth using without needing to be comboed in order to be worthwhile.
The whole point is to be able to run more unique perks without having to commit full on to a certain builds like Jen Jocky which require 2 - 3 perks to make a significant difference with little room for perks to help in escaping the killer.
Another amazing benefit is future perks which will be allowed to release stronger because the devs aren't as worried about crazy absurd synergies breaking the game.
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Chucky's size is a power in itself, not to mention being third person so he can check corners.
I wonder if he would be too oppressive being 4.6 with the dash.
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@UrKnightmarettv said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074792#Comment_4074792
So will options to help people with phobias be added into the menu's accessibility then? Flashlight brightness and some other stuff to do with flashing was changed because of people who deal with seizures and people I know who have that issue still struggle with it, whenever facing doctor. Older games remastered and newer games have adjusted to add things in their accessibility for people who have phobias or issues that could trigger a seizure, I don't see how it would be a problem for behavior to add those options into dead by daylight.
While I get the sensitivity/seizure risk and wanting to mitigate that, it still feels unfair to demand the devs to cater towards people's phobias. This is a horror game and there is a phobia for literally everything. There was a similar discussion when Wesker was released due to his power and how it looked on infected survivors.
Clown is a good example of a really common phobia, but he's in the game nonetheless. Limiting and censoring phobias is in itself limiting the game and what the devs can do. Its a horror game and these things should be expected when someone decides to play. Not curving what they don't like.
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First of all, Dead by Daylight is first and foremost presented as a horror game. If certain people have phobias, sensitivity to bright or flashing lights, or are prone to seizures due to flashing lights, then this is not the game for them. Most games aren't in that regard.
Also, stealth killers need anonymity at the beginning of the game because it can lead to a crucial early down, one of the few advantages they need to be viable at all. Especially in higher mmr games. Its not always about horror. Killers need that advantage even if its only 20 seconds which may determine if the killer will do well or not.
On that note, however, your anecdotal experience of not being scared does not mirror everyone else. Plenty people still get genuinely scared or jump every once and while. Some don't, but thats with any horror game regardless of how good is it. There are plenty people who think PT, Visage, Mortuary Assistant, Silent Hill or even Outlast are not scary at all. Its subjective.
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I had a similar thought when listening to why they were making these buffs to the doors for survivors, but it doesn't really solve the primary issue of doors being pointless to interact with.
Survivors gain absolutely no value from looking at cameras compared to spending time on a gen. Every second is valuable, especially at high level of play. Suppose Sprintrap did have permanent undetactable, it would only affect solo q and casual survivors. Plus, his age would have to be nerfed into the ground to compensate, otherwise he just becomes overwhelming obnoxious to go against.
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@Marc_123 said:
Make sure to use your Static Blast very often.
Imo a lot of doctor players i see use it far too infrequently.
These builds get a lot more annoying when survs are in higher madness.
Isn't that a given though? I've played Doctor for a long time. He hasn't been my main for a couple years, but I'm extremely familiar with his kit.
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Honestly Scratch mirror was dead even before the rework and its for two reasons. Since map offerings are no longer guaranteed, you can no longer rig the game in your favor with indoor maps like Larry's, Silent Hill, The Game or the new Trickster Delusion. You're just a 4.4 killer with no power on any other map that isn't indoors. Even if they made changes to Scratch Mirror, maps ultimately hurt him the most.
What also killed Scratch Mirror is just time. Most players are pretty use to it and are no longer scared of it. As other people have said, its easy to predict most Scratch Mirror players, and abuse their slower speed. 4.4 killers are 4.4 because they have mobility or ranged attacks. They're meant to keep up, not catch up. A 4.4 Myers only option is hit and run because rarely is the chase worth it, and that contributes to him being very predictable.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4065347#Comment_4065347
I don't recall anyone in this thread lamenting about how hard it is to spam?
Also the tutorial is uncalled for, I'm confident we all understand how Trickster works.
Trickster is about the easiest killer to aim with you aren't spamming so its easy to assume thats part of the bigger issue. Otherwise Huntress and Deathslinger would be just as difficult.
Also most post as if this update very clearly point to people not knowing how to play Trickster. Plus you're ignoring the newer players who just picked up Trickster and maybe the game in general. Kind of selfish to think otherwise.
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Don't spam and be patient. You're already putting yourself at an unnecessary disadvantage trying to spam a weaving survivor. Even on MnK its inefficient. I play on console and can aim pretty well.
Ideally, you're pacing your knives and going for 1 hit at a time. You get a better feel for where to aim and aren't wasting all your knives in one go. Plus, simply holding your knives will zone out survivors trying to dodge so you can get close enough to land better hits or M1. When you can spam is when survivors are caught vaulting or throwing pallets. You can hit roughly 2 to 3 knives on a low combo and all 6 at A or S since they're stuck in that animation. Not quite on windows, but definitely if they're throwing a pallet. They're not moving. At long range its still the same principle, unless they're stationary at a gen or unhooking.
Additionally, you'll rank up faster by pacing your shots since you aren't missing so much. Plus, even if you aren't going to deal damage at range, you still get valuable progress with your ranks since you get a bonus for hitting at a distance.
Rather than trying to emulate Mnk Triscker mains who have an easier time aiming and play all day, go at your own pace and take the shots you know can get, rather than hoping to land a shot by blindly firing in the general direction of the survivors.
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He's arguably buffed. I've been playing him quite a bit and have seen mostly success. I don't want him to be 4.6 because that means having an 8 knife injure which feels worse. I like being able to actually injure and punish survivors for vaulting, and at range. I like having a tangible benefit to actually having patience and not spamming.
I don't like tickling survivors and being a glorified M1 killer who survivors can't be bothered to respect. I will take 4.4 and 6 knives to injure over 4.6 no matter what.
Let's say they don't nerf his lethality but make him 4.6. Now we have an overly oppressive killer that most casual players will feel like they have no chance against. If good Trickster players are doing well with this version now, then it'll be hell later if they buff the wrong things, then they obliterate him, and then no one is happy.
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@Rogue11 said:
Yea people are way overreaching on the doom posting over 4.4ms. Huntress has always been 4.4 and is one of the best examples of a balanced killer that rewards skill on both sides. I greatly prefer the more skillful version of trickster we have now over being walked down and back massaged with knives.
Thank you. I really think people are hyperfixating on the 4.4, and I do think most people only played a couple games before making their opinion.
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@Adam_Francis_Main said:
Survivors hated 4.4 trickster and people rarely played the killer
Survivors hated 4.6 and players played him more, but still wasn't common.
Survivors hate 4.4 and people are dropping trickster, making him a rare killer, but anime skin and a meaningless flashy UI was added.
With his mediocre map mobility you're better off playing huntress
That's not really a good correlation to justify changes. Trickster is objectively better than his 4.6 version, but he should dumbed down again because people don't want to learn?
Trickster can actually punish people at windows and pallets consistently now just like Huntress, and can injure consistently at range just like Huntress. You will get injured if drop a pallet or vault in Tricksters face. Plus, they both suffer from the same issues of clutter and being 4.4, yet I don't hear anyone calling for her to be 4.6.
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Yes, it sucks that survivors hold w and yes it sucks to be at a massive disadvantage on certain loops, but Trickster is far better than most people are giving him credit for.
Patience and pacing is the key. I think the thing most people don't get is that Tricksters movement speed is directly tied to his lethality. At 4.4, he's justified in having a 6 blade injure with amazing lethality up close and at range. At 4.6, he has to be compensation nerfed back to 8 blades or even worse slowdown. Then we're back to square one and just tickling survivors.
I'll take 4.4 hold w and 6 knives to injure over 4.6 tickling everyday, any day, always.
Wacek is a a very popular Trickster main I found out about through Hens, and they're proof that Trickster was not nerfed. He's demonstrated its possible to obliterate even comp survivors in chase extremely quick. In fact, one can legitimately argue that they're stronger, more fun and more skill based than before. Previous iterations were kind of brain dead, clunky and uninteresting. This version is the most fluid and most fun to me.
I know a lot of people are going to say I'm wrong, but I hope there's genuine discussion to be had because I think people are hyperfixating on hold w and the 4.4, and ignoring everything else. Please understand what you're really asking for when suggesting Trickster needs to be 4.6. I truly believe he doesn't need to be.
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If you're relying soley on vaulting to get hits then you weren't exactly very good with Ghoul to begin with. He excels at mobility. Catching up quickly, cutting off survivors, and taking unexpected angels. That was the intention of his power, not cheap vaulting hits.