zonkednb
zonkednb
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084424#Comment_4084424
oh for sure i just have a new way of looking at it now
Snark aside, I've long argued the problem with Ghoul isn't his strength, it's the feedback.
Getting bitten by him just sucks, there's no two ways about it. The game sets the interaction up like there's a level of outplay, but it's an interaction that if you measure success by avoiding injury, the survivor pretty much always loses, oftentimes in ways that visually look completely unfair. That's free slowdown for Ghoul and while you now only have to loop an M1 killer with a scamper, you're doing it with 1 less health state than others and cannot gain distance on outdoor maps even with a huge mindgame win thanks to his mobility.
He's the killer equivalent of a fly that always gets away when you try to swat it and keeps buzzing near your ear making it impossible to ignore. -
All correct.
He's annoying though. -
@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084286#Comment_4084286
The OP Litterally Labeled this thread: "Which balance mechanic would be best for the Nurse" Heavily implying she's unbalanced and in need of "correction".
Oh my boy, but it gets better, he then goes:
"Nurse is, atleast with the last Blight nerf, clearly the strongest killer in the game.
Some other killer have different mechanics to keep their power in check, which of those would be in your opinion work for Nurse without making her awful to play?
- Infect first/triple hit (for example Nemesis, Unknown)
- Limited Power (for example Oni, Myers)
- Items to reduce the power (for example Singularity, Xeno)"
As if the only way they can "correct her" is to apply any of these 3 proven restrictions/NERFS, as done on other killers, to make her BETTER for survivors to go against!
Flipping HELL man, I even submitted my own "Joke" response about basically castrating her by making it so she can't blink to where she can't see, and Escalated upon it when somebody said it was a "good idea" by suggesting they nerf her even further, and only then did the guy, obviously not getting that my initial suggestion was a joke, say:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084292#Comment_4084292
Like, What the hell?!
As suspected You guys really do want her deleted don't you? No amount of nerfs I suggest, no matter how horrible, or how useless they'd make her… not even the OP is arguing against. Sure the OP has since stated that this shouldn't be a "Nerf Nurse" post… but that's literally just him covering his own arse.
@TicTac If you really want this to end, just ask the moderators to close the post, because all you're ever gonna get now, is suggestions on how to nerf her. Attempting to balance her is the LEAST any survivor in this community is interested in. They're just tired of going up against her in the top tier. Even so, if she was nerfed into the ground, they'd go after Blight, Ghoul, Spirit, or Huntress, next… Just, let her be what she truly is: A challenge, that takes a lot of work to get good with, and gives good rewards for doing so. The survivor community Rarely if Ever comes across a "Good Nurse", and when they do, they flip out, just like you but, You literally won't get the same amount of commitment and rarity from any other killer, I promise.
Don't pretend that this post wasn't about nerfing her, it's right in your initial Paragraph.
The basis of the thread is that there are known issues with Nurse, and she absolutely is the strongest killer in the game by pretty much everyone's assessment, and KR just doesn't tell the full picture. If we go purely by KR, we really should be nerfing Sadako (We should not do that.) Even a middling Nurse doesn't really need to accomplish much to crush a lobby.
Ironically, what holds her back is mobility across maps with large surface areas and the ability to prerun to force multiple fatigues before the chase even becomes dangerous. If all survivors do this while slamming the hell out of gens and make sure they broke an early 3 gen, she's escapable. The problem comes from the fact that none of this feels like outplaying the Nurse. She's really not that interactive, especially if she's running full Aura and hitting you with insta-2nd-blink. Playing against Nurse is largely hoping she's not got the mechanics down, not actively outplaying her - and god help you if a Nurse with the baseline level of familiarity with her gets Midwich. The sheer degree of separation between how she plays vs how other killers play is likely a huge part of her wonky KR, especially given she's free.
I don't want her deleted. I'm not part of this monolith you're arguing with. I think taking away her power and reworking her into a chase killer would suck for the game's variety, her legacy, and Nurse mains in general. Slowing her down too much via an infection mechanic would make some maps practically unwinnable unless she plays perfectly. I also don't think she should lose her ability to blink through walls. Just because someone I have no control over agreed with your joke post about a completely crippling nerf doesn't mean everyone's motivation aligns. Blinking through walls or up/down a floor makes for some of the best organic horror moments in the game. Her presentation is fantastic and is worth being in the game for that alone. Were I given a button to remove her vs keep her as is forever, I'd press the latter.
I spitballed an idea as a creative exercise, one that gives her troughs and peaks, while hopefully preventing survivors being able to freely brain-off gen repair. I don't claim it's perfect, it went from idea to post in the space of 20 minutes while I timed out the remainder of my work day. Rereading it a day later and I already see holes in it and how it would likely motivate tunneling. The hope was to see people engage with that and maybe build on what is admittedly a pretty barebones idea, from both Nurse player perspective and the survivor perspective.
I just think you were a bit quick to pull the trigger on this one. I'm not even a survivor main. -
It's grass only I'm afraid and I think that's unintentional to boot.
However, like @Wezqu said, he can only appear at resources and has a global cue when he enters his phase. In some respects it makes him a little easier to pre-empt than other killers that spawn on your head like Springtrap, because you have full knowledge of what times he can appear at a resource vs when he might arrive on foot. -
@mrpieseller said:
As we all know the anniversary is coming up. I at first thought the original survivor was going to be the mid chapter survivor. However the original survivor comes out a week after Jason comes out, which means the mid chapter likely will still have a licensed survivor(s). I want to know who is the most requested!
I tend to get far more hyped over new killers than survivors… Except for one eventuality:
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@TWiXT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083971#Comment_4083971
TBH, I don't think that even changing her like this would ever make the survivors "happy". The only way they'll ever be even close to "happy" with her is if:
- she can only blink on open ground, only 6 meters per token, still 2 tokens
- has a 10-15 second cooldown,
- permanently suffers from the blindness effect so she can never see auras,
- still moves at her 3.86m/s
Added to the aforementioned proposed nerf of "Can't blink to where she has no LoS," then, and ONLY then, would survivors say she's "ok".
These changes would make her completely nugatory to the killer player base, but even with all of these nerfs… I'm sure they'll still complain until she's deleted entirely… Because that just how survivor mains who start threads like this think.
The point of this thread, as OP has stated, is not "What nerf does Nurse need."
It's about a balancing mechanic. A chance to spitball something additional that would make her less complained about but also not dumpstered.
OP even said that they weren't engaging with their own thread because it pivoted quickly to a nerf discussion and not a mechanics/game design discussion.
Not every post on the internet is in bad faith, despite evidence to the contrary. -
@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084172#Comment_4084172
That would be interesting with the right numbers. But it could be frustrating to play if survivors keep disappearing.
Absolutely, but grass movement plus forcing them to walk, you could still hit them, which injures them and burns the photograph faster, and of course this puts the invis on a long CD so she can consolidate the down quickly and hook to remove it from them until she gets at least one 'World Breaker' event (Agonal Breath? Nurse's Lament? Big Scary Time?). Plus, with the limited duration, risk of giving a loud noise notification, Nurse could stay nearby so the survivor is forced to come out of invisibility. If they haven't gotten far enough away, didn't hide at all or went invisible too early, they're far more likely to be caught, and going down would be hugely punishing.
I guess it'd make Nurse feel entirely different. Much more survival horror than competitive tag. From the Nurse's perspective, it'd make her much much harder and more complicated, but Nurse starts the game without any disappearing survivors so if she finds her stations first she can play around their locations to prevent survivors even getting that far, or go full aggro early and get some hooks/injuries spread so they're less effective once found unless the survivors reset first. -
@OrionQc24 said:
Okay I will rework some aspects of the build and thanks for mentioning the existing perks I had completely forgotten they even were a thing X_X
Friendzone, used to be called Frozen heart but I changed it to be Friendzone (implying Elliot rejected Noah at one point)
Cold shoulder, I also hadn't thought about that perk and although it is not dependent on pallets…it does look too much like the same thing, I will change it for something else I have a few ideas.
Closeted, yes sorry I'm gay myself and thought it could be a fun play on word. Lorewise it's a funny deviation of the truth, which is that he was shoved in lockers by Noah.Haha, no apologies needed! I'm not rustled by the perk name. I just kinda think about what these sort of things would look like going into the game and I figure that might not make the cut.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084018#Comment_4084018
As the one who started this discussion i want to clarify some things.
First of the goal was to talk about some methods to hold a power back. This spiraled into the typical nerf discussion, reason why i lost interest and didnt reply to anyone. But back to the reason for the post: Yes, i think Nurse should be nerfed. I think aura-blocking is kinda nice, but doesnt change much. I think reducing her numbers would make her just awful to play. And i think a complete rework would make old nurse mains complain.
Yes, i also think there are other things to be nerfed. Like maps, perks, toolbox, honestly even medkits with some addons are kinda gamechanging and more. But why should i list them in a discussion about Nurse? Its not even about if Nurse should be nerfed, its about which of the mechanics could work. Wont probably never matter for the actual game, but i was curious.
Now im kinda venting and its not about you. Its just kinda boring to see a discussion derail into the Nerf-this-first-discussion Nr. 2478.
I think the built in counterplay mechanic, like the Xeno turret, is the only idea I've seen that handles the issue while not hitting the many pitfalls people point out. It keeps her identity and doesn't change how she plays so much, but gives survivors a chance against one of the most oppressive powers in the game. Playing against a Nurse is just hoping she messes up, and trying to make that more likely. If the Nurse plays well, no amount of good play in return will prevent a quick down.
You could even buff her basekit to a degree if it shuts her down too hard.
I've seen a few suggestions for what would work against her, and might as well throw my hat into the ring. Forgive me if this isn't explained fantastically, work was brutal today. Please keep in mind the numbers are completely arbitrary and would probably need fixing by someone much more clever than I.
The Concept:
So much of Nurse's concept is around that last breath you take. She suffocated people in life, and now teeters on the brink, constantly gasping for her last sip of air herself. I think we can play into that, while giving survivors something unique to use when dealing with her, while also not taking away Nurse's power.
Nurse now has unique stations. These are simple old-style hospital beds, maybe with a bit of entity goop here or there, classic DBD stuff. They start neatly made. A survivor can perform a unique action to rummage the bed, making it dischevelled and giving Nurse killer instinct on them for 2s. In doing so, they receive a photo fragment as a killer-specific item.
While holding the photo fragment, it will slowly begin to burn away, taking a total of 180 seconds to burn fully. However, survivors can press the the interact button while holding it to hold their breath. There is a slight audio cue of them breathing in once, to make it risky to do while she is on top of you. While holding their breath, survivors:- are completely invisible to Nurse, disappearing the same way they do from a phasing Spirit's POV.
- are completely silent.
- are unable to run or perform rushed/conspicuous actions.
- fill a meter over 10 seconds, if filled all the way, they gasp for air and give Nurse a loud noise notification for their trouble.
- double the burn rate of the photo fragment.
This will have a 10 second cooldown after each use, and a 20 second cooldown if you allow the metre to fill all the way, that way it cannot be feathered/abused too easily. Injured survivors fill the meter twice as fast, and hooked survivors immediately have their fragment burn away.
Once all fragments have burnt away, the map adjusts with a global cue, maybe a breathless screech/weep from Nurse. All survivors permanently breathe as if sprinting, all Nurse's stations reset and lock while a timer starts, like World Breaker. During this time, Nurse's fatigue is shorter in duration, making her substantially more lethal. Meanwhile, the photograph has been restored, revealing a picture of Andrew, her husband. This photograph must be burned by a 5s interaction, which lowers Nurse's time in this powered up state from maybe 120s to only 10s. It spawns randomly on the map and all survivors get permanent aura read on it, making it a mad dash to get to it.
Once it is burned, the stations unlock, and the cycle repeats. Survivors find and get their fragments and can stealth again.
It'd certainly be an interesting and different way to play the game. I'm super inefficient with my words so maybe this looks more complicated than it is. I think it's quite simple. Stealth section that leads into a climactic scary section and back down into stealth again.
Nurse mains try not to down arrow me too much.EDIT: photo fragments will burn automatically if not collected from the station within maybe 5 mins?
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To add a bit of context for why they can't just differentiate dropped connections vs deliberate disconnects:
They can actually detect this, however there's no way of knowing whether it's an ISP issue or if someone manually turned off their connection. Removing DC penalty for a dropped connection essentially gives players free reign to DC whenever they want simply by switching off their router for a couple of seconds.
People used to do this to preserve their win rates in some games back in the ancient times of the late 00s and early 10s. -
The Killer:
I like the concept and the lore. I can see there's a lot of love put into this, especially with the Mori. I feel the killer power needs a bit more info on how it works exactly.
Right now, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's just an M1 killer with a global passive that blocks certain resources based on RNG. Theming-wise, that's great. The idea of fast vaulting causing an injury so the survivor has to consciously choose to medium vault or ditch the resource entirely is unique and interesting.
I think looking at the power in a way that makes it a bit more active and perhaps adds a secondary objective for the survivors (warming up by some means) would help make them slightly more unique to play against.
I see this working as a set up killer. Survivors can thaw frozen vaults/pallets with a special interaction (maybe after finding campfire and pulling a burning branch from it), which cannot be done in chase as it takes too long. Maybe instead of having a maximum number of 'freezes' that can be applied at once, The Captain earns these as a resource for chase/injuries and can spend them accordingly.
Perks:
Posessive is just an upgrade from Predator, which is Wraith's perk.Cold Shoulder is alright. It's very similar to Knock Out from Bubba, with a longer effect but requiring you to eat a stun for it to activate, so probably will see a little use here or there.
Friendzone (or is it Frozen Heart, based on the perk description?) is cute. Pairing it with I'm All Ears from Ghostface would make for some interesting ways to play around fast vaults. It does last an awfully long time and the cooldown is only 10 seconds longer than the effect, though, so this may result in most chases being at perma 3% hinder and perma oblivious. That might be obnoxious but I couldn't tell you if it's too strong.
Transfer Student is probably the most interesting unique perk I've seen offered here. From what I understand, it's a means to bait the killer away from where you are, risking an injury but also gaining some distance. Further, if you make it to a locker you can move to it. To be 100% honest, I don't see this perk being meta, but I do see it as a popular meme/fun pick for messing around with silly locker strats.
Closeted is umm… I get the story implications here, but I'm not 100% sure about the name. The effect is okay, very niche but given the other perks here I can tell locker builds are the plan.
Tutor is pretty okay as well. Easier great skill checks would be pretty gross with Hyperfocus alongside it. Could make for some interesting double-up duo builds on generators instead of spreading out being the choice in 99.9% of cases. Which is a decision I'd like to see come into play more often. ~
EDIT: I want to add that I think it's genuinely hilarious that the survivor whose primary experience in their backstory is getting stuffed in lockers has perks associated with them. -
What is your favorite Killer Add on
Guitar Strings. It's boring, I know, but being a blue despite how much free info it gives is something I cannot ignore. It's basekit as far as I'm concerned, although I will sometimes run Access Panel in its place after the buff.
What Killer add on needs reworking
Freddy's Hat. I'm not quite sure what they were going for with this? If you're building around really quick overloops I guess if could be useful, but I think it's better and more consistent for Springtrap play to have total familiarity with his usual projectile arc. Screwing with muscle memory this hard for a super situation upside that is more often a downside is not worth it.
I'd like them to make it feel weightier too. My suggestion is to disable manual recall and have the axe only come back when entering a security door, keep the heavier weight, but also have the axe able to special break dropped pallets/breakable walls if it embeds in them.an undderated add on
Ripped Curtain. This is especially nice if you're running a healing slowdown build with sloppy, which I feel people sleep on given Springtrap can exit the door into a free hit quite often. It guarantees every health state you take is going to be effort to reset, and if you disturb a gen getting doubled up, you can throw it into one survivor, then 4.6 down the other (Who usually slows down thinking that because their buddy got axed, they can go back to gen after I move on). This with Nurses Calling means I spook the survivors off the gens, get them all regressing, then usually find the rest spot during my tour of said gens and get a down (sometimes even 2) off of that. Works significantly less well on indoor maps with limited overloop potential or really big open maps where corner healing is pretty safe.
Favourite addon combo
Guitar Strings + Ripped Curtain. One lets me find the chase quickly, the other lets me do what I mentioned above.
Sorry it's all Springtrap. He's the only killer whose addons I have learned inside out. The rest of my playtime on Wraith/Spirit are largely just sticking with the same 2 addons I started with. -
I don't play Knight that often but I find if I have a competent team on the survivor side, most Knights really struggle to get anything done. The thing is, after seeing guards get stuck running in place on staircases, completely beef the pathing while chasing me, or fail to spawn correctly when the knight is trying to pincer, I have to wonder just how much my Knight escapes are the team doing well vs the Knight fighting both us and his own kit.
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@Fenril said:
Honestly? With that humongously good chase power she has, she's ought to receive some nerfs.
How is she punished in any way for erroneously using her powers? She's not punished at all. Her ability's cooldown is almost non-existent.
From a survivor side perspective… playing against Spirit is simply unberable.
@Abbzy said:
Im not fan of spirit (I would pick like any killer over her tbh even the op nurse or by many unliked ghoul) but this seems to be absurd as valid change I hope its just bug.
If they consider (devs) as valid change and its not bug then make her 4,6 m/s at this point because using her power will be like shooting into compleate darkness and hoping you will hit something against survivors with elusive or unijured ones.
Totaly unecessary change tbh instead they should buff ghostface or doctor (not buff that like makes almost none difference).
Is there a reason we're talking about something from 5 years ago like it's happening now? Did I miss something?
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@IWatchedShedFor13Hrs said:
I just hope this chapter is going to be good. I haven't spoiled myself too much but I pray he is fun. He is good on a controller or nah?
Yes, Jason is fun.
He's both fun to play and decently fun to go against.
He doesn't feel especially controller friendly.
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@zonkednb said:
- Most of my takes are ice cold, such as removal of crosshair addons and making them a toggleable option for ranged killers, or the fact that the matchmaking sucks, but I have a few that might ruffle some feathers, especially as a recent player by forum standards.
- 1. When people lament the current state of the game and refer to some previous version that was superior, they're not missing how the game actually was, they're just missing how the felt about it when they were less jaded and working backwards to justify this feeling.
- 2. Balancing around the highest level of play will not benefit the health of the game for the majority of the playerbase.
- 3. Sort of leading off the last point, buffing stealth killers like Ghostface to A or B-tier for higher level players will be ruinous to the casual/less experienced playerbase and will do more harm that good overall. This leads me into my fourth point:
- 4. It's okay for some killers to be innately weaker/stronger. While balance is important, it's not possible to have a fully even roster without converging all killer mechanics into the same template, which will stagnate the game way more than people think.
I cannot edit out those bullet points :(
- Most of my takes are ice cold, such as removal of crosshair addons and making them a toggleable option for ranged killers, or the fact that the matchmaking sucks, but I have a few that might ruffle some feathers, especially as a recent player by forum standards.
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- Most of my takes are ice cold, such as removal of crosshair addons and making them a toggleable option for ranged killers, or the fact that the matchmaking sucks, but I have a few more that might ruffle some feathers, especially as a recent player by forum standards.
- 1. When people lament the current state of the game and refer to some previous version that was superior, they're not missing how the game actually was, they're just missing how they felt about it when they were less jaded and working backwards to justify this feeling.
- 2. Balancing around the highest level of play will not benefit the health of the game for the majority of the playerbase.
- 3. Sort of leading off the last point, buffing stealth killers like Ghostface to A or B-tier for higher level players will be ruinous to the casual/less experienced playerbase and will do more harm that good overall. This leads me into my fourth point:
- 4. It's okay for some killers to be innately weaker/stronger. While balance is important, it's not possible to have a fully even roster without converging all killer mechanics into the same template, which will stagnate the game way more than people think.
- Most of my takes are ice cold, such as removal of crosshair addons and making them a toggleable option for ranged killers, or the fact that the matchmaking sucks, but I have a few more that might ruffle some feathers, especially as a recent player by forum standards.
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@BongoBoys said:
Gamer fuel: consume a energy drink and sprint at 200% speed for 3 seconds afterwards you're tummy hurt and start vomiting revealing yourself to the killer and suffer 25% hinder penalty for 60 seconds
Do you double vomit vs Plague? Important question.
@tjt85 said:
I like to think I would come into the fog with some borderline useless stealthy/troll/meme perks:
Bodge Job
You repair things quickly... You break things just as quickly, too.
Generator repairs are 6% faster.
Repair skill checks have a 50% chance of being a difficult skill check. Every successful difficult skill check adds a token, up to a total of 4 tokens. Each token adds an additional 2% speed to generator repair.
Missing a difficult skill check loses a token and applies a -15% penalty to generator progression.
Now You See Me
...Now you don't!
To activate Now You See Me, progress 50/45/40% of a generator.
Point in any direction to project a moving illusion 16 meters from your current location. The Killer will also see the aura of your ghostly doppelganger running in your chosen direction for 3 seconds. After an additional 3 seconds, the illusion disappears and Now You See Me deactivates.
Locker Hopper
Locker Hopper activates on your final hook stage. After entering a locker, hit the active ability button 2 to randomly teleport to another locker in the Trial. Each teleportation event carries a 20% risk of being instantly sacrificed to The Entity.
Locker Hopper has a cooldown of 60 seconds.
(Locker Hopper is my way of bringing the forbidden Narnia Tech back into the game in perk form. But I think it would also be a fun TARDIS themed perk if we ever got a Doctor Who chapter)
NGL I would probably try making Bodge Job work. Also fully accurate to the perks I'd have too. My headset is held together with tape as proof.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Invocation: Final Sacrifice
If you have no hook stages you can perform an invocation. After 60 seconds, all hook states are transferred to you. Survivors see each others auras.
I'm not afraid to bite the bullet when my turn comes. I live for the team. And I hope that one day, we all can come to an understanding.
I was thinking about perks of this nature, stuff that's straight up busted but also kills you outright. Probably not healthy for the game but I can't help but feel kinda into the moments it could make.
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@Nazzzak said:
An exhaustion perk on account of all the caffeinated beverages I've dragged into the fog with me
A stealth perk on account of me finding a quiet corner during the trial to just kick back and read until the gens are done
And a self heal perk once I've popped a benzo after the inevitable anxiety attack
The exhaustion perk should give you 25% haste for 7 seconds, instead of 50% for 3, but the caffiene causes a panic attack, so you're not only exhausted but you scream every 2s until you find a safe place to read.
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@wesker_shades said:
- Clever Solutions - thinking outside of the box a lot.
When repairing a gen, press the ability button to freeze the progress for 80/70/60 seconds, during which time if you move to a different generator, that generator will be locked until the time runs out, and all the frozen progress from the first generator is transferred to the new generator. The original generator will be reset to zero. - Technologic Tinkering.
While working on generators, you gain one token per 33% of total progress you make (capped at 1/2/3 tokens). Once a token is gained, you can use the ability button to spend the tokens to get a one-time use trap item that you can use to trap a generator for the remainder of the trial. Whenever a regression event gets triggered on this generator, the killer will then suffer from Blindness and 10% Hindered for 10/20/30 seconds, and also get stunned for 1/2/3 seconds. - Ultimate Gamer Brain.
While in chase for more than 20 seconds, press the active ability button to become fully invisible, elusive and completely quiet for 4/5/6 seconds. This perk has a cooldown of 300 seconds.
Clever solutions is actually kind of fascinating as a concept, shifting progress from one gen to another. I can see it being used to counter a killer that has set themselves up early game with a brutal 3 gen. Would be interested in trying that out for real.
Guess I'm buying the wesker_shades chapter bundle. - Clever Solutions - thinking outside of the box a lot.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083085#Comment_4083085
As a nurse main with 4k hours. This will not do anything. What she needs is a complete and total rework. Any possible change you could do simply makes her harder to play for the average player, but does nothing against the high level nurse players.
What is your perspective on @HoodedWildKard's take? Not necessarily the exact mechanics as described in the thread, but the concept of an additional objective to limit her power?
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@Huge_Bush said:
Grovel: get down on hands and knees and beg for mercy.
Grope: grope the Killer and make them feel uncomfortable and run to the Entities HR Department to file a complaint. It’s super effective on hot Killers like Wesker and Myers. Has no effect on uggo like Hag and will give them a free hit.
Smack/Kick: allows you to smack a teammate, taking a health state from them, when they do something stupid like pop a gen or drop a pallet when the Killer isn’t nearby. If hooked, and they try to unhook in the Killers face, you’ll get a prompt to kick them in the head if you want to.How effective is Grope against Springtrap? Free hit or HR stun?
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
Loneliness: when 10 meters from any survivor, your conspicuous actions are 8%faster
Worthless: when opening chests, items will always be lowest quality, but you can rummage 8 times.
Unworthy: once the exit gates are powered, you gain 3 permanent stacks of endurance, but you cannot leave the trial by exit gate nor hatch.
I um…
Well, in terms of balance, Loneliness seems really strong, actually!
(Feel better soon) -
@Rock_KBob said:
IBS - Years of irritable bowls have rendered your flatulence especially potent. While repairing a gen, rather than skillchecks, you scream in pain and fart. Anyone within your 4m of fart cloud repairs the gen 3% faster for 3 seconds.
Sleep Deprivation - All those late nights have given you an other-worldly sixth sense. When a killer is undetectable and enters within 16m of you, you see their aura for 8 seconds. Has a 60 second cooldown.
Yeet - You never have what you need when you need it, but you have become great at improvisation. You can throw any fully depleted item to stun the killer. Item is fully consumed upon successful impact.
"rather than skillchecks, you scream in pain and fart."
You don't have to kill me like this, man -
@Mooks said:
’Eepy - you are exhausted for the entire trial, you can take a nap any time without any benefit whatsoever. This won’t get rid of the exhaustion.
Pet: Chinchillas - you got your two chinchillas with you. They don’t give any benefit at all and will keep you busy looking after them. But they are cute, so totally worth it!! (May or may not chew through gens cables and regress them (lol ‘May mit’ - they totally will do that))
Done with this ######### - you have had enough of this, endless torture through endless trials? Nope, sir. I am out. Press the Active ability button to just get sent straight to the void. This will delete your character from your account.
Well, what can i say? I am not made for this at all.
im detecting a theme among forum users... Lmao
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
depression- you sob loudly when injured breaking the killers spirit
Always hungry- you get to eat crows removing them from the match
Always tired- when doing gens after awhile you fall asleep and your subconscious finishes the gen for you on a fixed timer
you good, dude?
(I don't relate to this I don't relate to this I don't relate to this)
@BongoBoys said:
Button Mash- When all else fails spam mash the ability button to gain 1% progress per press on a gen after 5 seconds it goes on cooldown for 120 seconds
I'd carry games with this perk. I can mash buttons like I'm skipping dialogue in a speedrun
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Love the art <3 Need more MS-paint concepts in this forum.
JSYK BHVR, I would buy this. -
Spirit really hurts if you're not wearing a headset or have hearing difficulties. She's definitely not a killer you play well against while having something else making noise on a second monitor. However, if you do have a headset, she's really not that bad. Good spirits will still trash the average survivor, but they should if they're good at the game. What you should be doing with Spirits is forcing them to have to figure out where you are, not the other way around.
Ghoul isn't fun to play against. Not OP, no, fully counterable, but it's a pretty popular opinion that he needs a change. Not a nerf, just a change, to make him feel less cheap. His main issue is he's too easy for how much he does. -
@DrFrozen said:
Basically I'd love to see more setting called "game rules" for CUSTOM matches to have more fun with friends such as:
- Killer speed
- survivor speed
- gen repair speed
- healing speed
- killer/survivor size
- killer power cooldown
- killer/survivor perk cooldown
- lunge range
- pallet density
- exhaustion recovery speed
- blinding speed
- totem cleansing/bessing speed
- window vault limit
- map brightness
- random perks/addons/offerings/items (ON/OFF) and perks visibility during match (ON/OFF); yes it's chaos mode
and even more fun stuff! This would be very nice feature to have fun with friends, don't you think ?
My pipe dream is to have a custom game creator the same way Overwatch has one, but I recognise that it's probably completely impossible in DBD.
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Most things people call toxic are not toxic, at least as far as I see it.
I get that tunneling is efficient, and I know it's usually not something personal, however I do hate it when it happens. I'm mid at looping and if I get identified as such, quite often it can feel personal even when it's not. I wouldn't call the killer doing it toxic, but I would say that they are knowingly taking advantage of a design flaw in the game. Killers that gloat about playing like this are the worst though. If you find the weak link and tunnel them out, you didn't really outplay the team did you? You just punished the player that clearly doesn't belong in the same lobby for the crime of being in the same lobby. Do it and bow out of the game if you must, trash talking, humping, nodding and hitting on hook like you're a king? Nah, have some shame, we both know there was nothing impressive about how you played.
But it isn't just killers.
I'm comptentent enough at the game that most bully squads end up feeding me 4 kills at 4 gens. I suppose that's fine for them - helps keep their MMR nice and low so they hopefully get Little Billy fresh out of the tutorial, excited to play as this cool guy called The Trapper. That kind of thing I find toxic. I don't go easy on baby killers, but some players really see blood in the water and use it as an opportunity to mock, frustrate and discourage them as much as possible. That's not just toxic in its meanspiritedness, it's toxic to the health of the game. If my first killer game was replaced with the first time I came across this "playstyle," I'd probably have dropped the game. This behaviour is usually followed by bagging on the line and trash talk in post-game chat, again, like it was somehow impressive that you outplayed someone with 5% of the hours you have.
And all the cruelty in chat. It's not as widespread as people act, but when it happens there's just no excuse. Being kind to people should be the default, but losers with a keyboard and internet anonymity will do what they do. -
Quite a few actually.
Currently Singularity mains, though. If I come against one that perfectly locks down key pressure points to a point where they feel like they are always spawning on your head, I know I'm up against the biggest of brains. -
@HexSlugged said:
i am apparently oblivious but for years i though blindness did not affect being able to see the aura of people slugged or on hook but i just had a twins match where i was using one of my hex builds and one of my favorite hexes is Hex: the third seal because i tend to use it to stop windows of opp, aleert or other aura perks. i had always thought hooks were excluded and slugs as well (i though slug blindness was removed back when the extreme deerstalker/franklins/knockout build was in play and then changed) and its a go to perk on all my killers. But ive never encoundered people having issues unhooking so i never thought differently.
However on the cornfield map, i am playing twins and with victor i hit all 4 survs and they never cleared that totem, just all my others. at one point i slugged a guy but couldnt pick up when i arrived with charlote due to the vultures swirling around hungry for the pallet save so i chased and left area and couldnt find slug on a later rotation. The team never picked them up and they bled out on the map.
I didnt think about it much because i was extremely active this match. i hooked 2 more survs who then all died on hook bleedout.
i thought the last guy abandoned his team for hatch since he didnt unhook and so in chat i mentioned it was rude that he abandoned 2 of his team mates and then the group told me they were blind and didnt know where the hooks were or the slug.
That made my build incredibly nasty.
Now, dont get me wrong as a killer i freaking love that, thats an extremely potent pressure tool to use but putting aside my personal love for that being possible, is that not seemingly a bit broken? particularly the slug, the hooks i assume still give you the initial noise notification but slugs dont and so that can make pick ups really hard, at least for the slug.
Curious on the thoughts and just also humble bragging about that amazing match i had. I owned and never used twins for years and decided to try her and she is incredibly fun, at least in my more average skill bracket
I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from with some of the responses you're getting. You're just opening a discussion based on an in-game experience you had, not asserting anything or calling for change.
To answer you, though; no, I wouldn't say blindness is overpowered in its current state. It can be disorienting when you're not used to/expecting it and can certainly mess with survivors that are not paying attention to the game. I think you just had a great game, overwhelmed the survivors and they were either not on top form, inexperienced or not warmed up enough to respond to it.
Plus Twins tends to do well due to being rare. -
@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082704#Comment_4082704
i will take chase, im not someone who will never engage with the killer, but on average other survivors will last longer. if you want to win, there needs to be 1 person on a gen pretty consistently. typcially im the only person on a gen. if im able to identify that my team mates are incapable of staying alive by unhooking in front of killer or going down multiple times in just a minute, then me getting in a 30 second chase means nothing because the game will NOT progress (in my favor) because the team is incapable of capitilising on anything.
I will absolutely trade when it makes sense to do so
I will not when doing so will not assist the team or me.
often im the only person who bothers to go for saves (not to say ive not been the slacker on the team before) but if i have a team whos unable or unwilling to take advantage of rotations and saves(and its soloq so) then im not going to put myself in danger if my calculus isnt that there is a benefit to come from it.
SO i do see your point and im in agrreeance with it, but many times doing that will just lose you the game as well.
Didn't mean to seem accusatory. I'm more kind of placing bets on why stealthing in general is looked upon disfavourably. It's a mix of things, from outright ratting to teammates generally not seeing much of what you contribute. It's why I try not to presume the worst if I have a stealthing teammate.
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082702#Comment_4082702
It does work as a Killer POV track sure, and they might be a bunch of dilinquent teens, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't give Survivors a reason for running away from them, like any proper chase track should make you want to do as a Survivor in such a scenario.
Also scary =/= horror, yes they're connected to one another, but they're not the same thing. As one is subjective, while the other is objective. DBD may not be scary to alot of people, but it still is objetively a horror game at the end of the day, and all the chase tracks should reflect that.
Honestly if i could, i'd make Oni's ptb chase track his Killer POV track, while keeping his live chase track as what Survivor hears from their POV.
That does raise an interesting point actually. I know it would never happen, but a separate version of chase themes for the killer POV vs survivor POV would actually be really sweet. I'm sure you could blend some rock elements into a chase theme and keep it sounding appropriately horror, which would work for Legion from the survivor side and I think the killer POV thing is loosely canon with how addons impact the chase theme for Legion anyway.
But I concede your point. It's not horror, and it does perhaps cheapen the game as purely horror from the intended experience, but if they swapped Legion's chase theme out for some sensory-overload wailing, I just can't say I'd like it. I'm attached to this imperfection. Well done for what I think would be a legitimately unpopular view. 😅 -
@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082657#Comment_4082657
i dont disagree but i would counter by me being a stealth player, im not good in chase but i am good at evasion and many games where im at 0 and the rest of the team is at 2 hooks is typically because my team mates are being soloq team mates and im the only person whos ever done anything of value the entire game. at this point its my mercy on whether i bother trying to trade and throw the game or go for hatch (i count that as an escape on an individual level) or gate escape.
No assessment of a gamestate is going to be wholly fair by numbers alone. Could very easily be that the other 3 players let the killer snowball hard by going for ill-advised saves and unhooking in their face.
Let's add an extra qualifier to better illustrate what I mean. We've got 1 gen left and some progress on them, but the killer is keeping great pressure up. In this case you'd do better to let the killer spot you and waste as much time as you're able to.
Plus, a big part of contributing to the game is wasting the killers time. If you're so stealthy you're not taking any chase/attention, then that just allows the killer to be extra efficient vs your teammates and get them down to death hook quicker. I tend to play stealthy (not a stealth build but instead avoiding taking chase unncessarily) until it starts coming down to the wire, then I take chase. -
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082692#Comment_4082692
The purpose and point of chase tracks in horror movies and games is to instill panic and dread in a situation where you're being hunted by something or someone who's out to get you and you need to get away from that danger right now. That's the entire purpose of horror chase music.
Legion's chase music however is essentially party/dance music. It may sound good to listen to on its own and is in-character for Legion to have, but it doesn't elevate the chase situation itself that a chase track is supposed to do, and as a result, it doesn't work for the purpose it's meant to serve.
I see what you are saying. Legion's track always felt more like their POV than ours. I think it fits the violent delinquent archetype they're going for and would work as a motif for them were they to have a film/series they were a part of. As for inciting dread? I suppose it's not particularly scary, but the theming makes up well enough for me, especially as DBD isn't really alll that scary after a couple dozen hours aside from incidental jumpscares.
At the end of the day though, Legion as a killer design works, but when you stop and consider what they actually are, any theme that tried too hard to take itself seriously would loop around to being sillier than the more self-aware bop they got. They're a bunch of teenagers. -
@Smoe said:
- Alot of Content Creators are clearly biased, and despite acting like they're not, all more or less serve as one of the main sources that causes people to act tribalistic in the community.
- Wesker & Legion have the least fitting chase tracks in the game.
- The All Things Wicked chapter is the single most overrated chapter which popularity is solely carried by its initial marketing.
- The Myers rework is not nearly as bad or out of character as people claim it is.
- If reddit and twitter has taught me anything, it's that a big part of this community absolutely despises actual hot takes or anything else that truly deviates from the popular opinion.
- DBD should get rid 25% of all perks, remove their ties to the characters and only add new ones, when it's something that actually bring something meaningful to the game.
Caught my attention with this one. Most of this is fine, but what specifically about Legion's theme doesn't fit? That one always kinda worked for me.
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@terumisan said:
survivors should be nerfed hard for the sake of the game and survivors have no incentive to get better at the game when the devsand perks carry them
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082666#Comment_4082666
Most killers have boring, one dimensional gameplay and killer players have no incentive to get better at the game when perks and intentional hand holding design carries them.
True gamers play with their monitor off and headset muted. I'm not about to be handheld by having the devs tell me where on the map I am or what's around me.
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Running anything that leans into ST's undetectable for me has never been appealing. Sure, basekit he can trigger it very easily, but let's be real, he's so obscenely loud that it doesn't make a difference apart from no visual TR indicator, and he's so tall that hiding his red stain doesn't matter all that much when you can see which way his ears are facing over the loop anyway. At least having him be quiet would maybe make it worth it.
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@SoGo said:
Mine are:
This playerbase has a much bigger hand in ruining all the fun than they think. Evidence of this is everywhere, and the people consistently choose to be annoying and argue for the sake of it.
Stealth is a valid playstyle and should not be so frowned upon. Being a looping god is not the only way to play.
Diminishing returns are a good feature that is beneficial in the long run, all we need to do now is buff some bad perks
I fully agree with the idea that players are optimising the fun out of the game.
On stealth, I agree that it's valid, but when I'm playing survivor, and me and 2 other teammates are on death hook, and one pure stealth player is on 0, it's time to use some of those free hookstates as a resource. Not doing so is where it crosses the line into ratting.
DR is good. I just hope we get other means to make specialist builds than % stacking. -
Thanks for the warning. I might have been triggered otherwise.
My unpopular opinions:- People should stop discussing balance around perfect play.
- Windows is extremely powerful, yes, but it's so useful for the transition of absolute novice to capable of the basics of the game, that nerfing it would be bad for the game as a whole. I'm saying this as someone that has dropped Windows from all my builds now.
- Wesker feels like crap to play, as does any killer whose main skill floor is fighting against terrible controls and map collision. (Billy, looking at you.)
- The game is more fun when players are inefficient and sloppy on both sides.
- Play to win and nothing else is unenjoyable.
- Autodiadact is actually good.
- Neither role is easy, and it's apples to oranges to try and dictate which is harder.
I'm sure I have more but I can't think of them at present.
- People should stop discussing balance around perfect play.
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I love the idea of a legitimate ice-themed killer, SCP or not, especially as the closes thing we have to that is all cosmetic. I think we'd need a little work on some of the suggestions here, but there's a good base.
Firstly, sorry to say this, but licensing issues pretty much shut down SCP, so a chapter of this nature would likely have to be original. Think how The Unknown has memetic properties in its lore very similar to a lot of SCPs, that sort of thing.Passive - Freezing Necrosis: Basic attacks inflict the Necrosis status effect. Survivors gradually begin to freeze, filling a "Hypothermia Meter" (0-100%). As the meter fills, their repair, healing, and vaulting speeds slightly decrease. At 100%, they become Exposed (one-shot down) and must find campfires/burning barrels around the map or interact with teammates to "warm up."
So this is where our slowdown is coming from, which would probably be needed given this killer is stuck walking around at what I presume is 4.6m/s like other M1 killers. I think there's a little clunk to the chosen effects here. Just a few things to expand on:
- Does warming up reduce the meter to 0 or cleanse the effect? Right now I can't tell if you can get rid of Necrosis by warming up, or just reset it.
- If teammates can warm you up, it's unlikely you'll get healed from the initial injury and not also cleansed of Necrosis. It's mild extra slowdown, but seems like the exposed wouldn't come into effect too often. Depending on the speed of build up, this slowdown might not be enough given the killer doesn't have any mobility at the moment. It does make it harder to spread out on gens though.
- This passive reminds me of Pig, who is weak but also quite popular.
Active Ability - Hypnotic Stare: The Killer can channel his gaze during a chase. If a Survivor looks directly back at the Killer while this is active, they suffer a severe Hindered effect (slowing them down drastically) for 2 seconds due to psychic hypnosis.
This is actually something I don't think will work once you face good players. It does give you the advantage in mind games as people won't be able to look at you while active, but the survivor essentially gets control over when this triggers, and there'll be opportunities to trigger this safely. I think it'll win you some mind games and catch survivors that aren't used to your killer out, but once the playstyles are settled you're going to have trouble. Might I suggest tacking this into the passive instead? Kind of like how looking at The Unknown cleanses his debuff, in this case, looking at the killer passively increases hypothermia, meaning players are encouraged to look away. Then you're clear for a more directly controllable active ability that might help a bit more in securing downs.
On your perks:Blighted Flesh: Your basic attacks leave a lasting mark. When a Survivor is unhooked, they suffer from the Mangled and Hemorrhage status effects until fully healed, and their healing speed is reduced by 10/15/20%.
This is just Gift of Pain without the scourge hook requirement and infinite duration until healed, with a bonus healing penalty tacked on. I like the idea of both being hard to heal and struggling to heal others, but this powercreeps something out entirely. Plus, it mentions basic attacks but is triggered on unhook?
Stony Stare: You punish those who watch your every move. Whenever a Survivor looks in your direction while within your Terror Radius for more than 4 seconds, their aura is revealed to you for 3/4/5 seconds.
This is a sort of side-grade to Phantom Fear. The 4 second requirement holds it back from being an outright upgrade. Good survivors could probably time this effectively but I think that'd be rare. All in all, a decent perk. I think you should clarify in the text that this requires looking at the killer, as right now this would work through walls and will be on every Nurse and Executioner loadout. If you want it to work through walls, it should have a cooldown for sure.
Hex: Bitter Cold: A Hex that freezes the blood of your prey. While this Hex Totem is active, all Survivors suffer a 5/8/10% penalty to generator repair speeds for each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor in the trial.
Thanatophobia but better and on a Hex Totem. Honestly, I like this. Not sure about the numbers but when it's alongside things like Hex: Ruin and has additional conditions required to apply substantial debuff, I think this is a solid totem perk that I'd probably use.
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Downvotes is just who saw your post and generally used to signify agreement or disagreement without going to the trouble of typing out a response. Tone is plays a huge part, as well. If people don't like the 'vibe' of what you typed, they'll hit the big old down arrow without considering much of the content.
I tend not to engage with downvotes all that much. I will only do so if I believe what is being posted actively makes the forum a worse place (abusive, rude, needless tribalism, derailing from the thread etc.).
On Throttle?
I don't think it's busted, however I think it'll be a perk that will annoy me on both sides, and whether or not it gets real value will be a toss up. -
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/467738/new-bully-squad-perk
To be honest, Wide Open Throttle locks the pallet for 60s. I don't think it will be used by bully squads, since it block pallets they would like to drop in the killer head one more time. Also, they can already use Any Means Necessary for this.
My biggest grip with this perk is the free haste, considering how haste is a strong effect on survivor, specially against weaker killers. We are going to get an MFT situation all over again, two years later.
Problably the elusive perk will be used for flash saves, but i'm waiting to hit live to say if its good or not.
I'm presuming the haste comes from a playtest where they discovered lifting the pallet for the killer right after vaulting it results in you eating an M1 in most circumstances.
I'm somewhat unsure whether or not this is OP. I do dislike that you can combo it with lithe allowing you to drop a god pallet, vault it and reset it, and have enough total speed to get to a new loop/resource safely, meaning the block on the pallet is no longer your problem. I could see this both being hard to deal with as killer, and a cause of me getting downed despite pathing well. -
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082212#Comment_4082212
Suspense of disbelief only goes so far, lol. A Stevegull who just screamed at me for 10 minutes while continuously running will drop dead if he has to hold his breath for 4 seconds. Wasn't getting hacked at with a saw or impaled by a hook (after which he screamed at me for another 10 seconds while on hook) that did him in... Was that 4 second period.
He for sure got up and walked away the moment Nurse left.
We just got a mori where the survivor gets disemboweled, then lit of fire. I think we can update the oldest ones. Not asking for more gore, just saying the mori should PROBABLY be more violent than the gameplay that came before it.
I really like Nurse's mori and how understated it is because I feel it matches her lore/character so well, as well has her whole breath-related theming.
Maybe it'd be a bit more believable if it ended with a crunch because she snapped their neck, but I also feel that'd undermine it a bit thematically. Asphyxiation sadly takes a little bit of time to accomplish, and Nurse has places to be, busy lady that she is. I'm gonna say it's a reasonable sacrifice of realism so we don't have a full 60-second Mori. -
He's not fun.
Unfun =/= OP.
He's the perfect storm of very restrictive on survivor decisions, obnoxious sound/visual design and, by virtue of being so unpopular, having players that lean into his reputation because they're not gonna be liked regardless of how they play (cannot blame them for this.)
Problem is, because he isn't OP, discussing how garbage he feels to go against for most players always has the discussion shift more towards his balance. People dismiss valid criticism of how annoying he is to face by presuming the survivor positions for them, and I think this defensiveness comes from the unfortunate fact that… He's just fun to play as (if you play on mute).
I can escape a Ghoul, but I didn't enjoy the process of doing so. That's the problem. -
fan """made"""
No one made this.
Can we not go back to daily slop posts? Please? -
My most played killers are Wraith and Springtrap.
With Wraith, I run pretty much exclusively tempo perks, think Agitation, Brutal (+shadow dance addon), Chili (sometimes Friends 'til the End) and Lethal. The idea is to keep my uptime maxed while clearing the map. All goes well I get my slowdown through overwhelming uptime and if I'm struggling in chase, the fast pallet breaks make for an easier time in the mid-late game. Sometimes I switch out my aura for En-Fury if I've lost too many uncloak mindgames at a pallet recently. Mostly, I'm just trying to win chases without too many perks that could build bad habits as I work on getting better at the game, and taking out the worry of time lost between each chase. I think that qualifies as no slowdown?
For Springtrap, I vary my builds a fair amount depending on what I'm feeling. Currently I'm getting my slowdown from anti-heal, trying to make Ripped Curtain work. Thana, Sloppy and Nurse's with one free slot which usually goes to Pop because it synergises so nicely with Guitar Strings.
Start game > Enter Door > Notice which gen starts getting progress > Emerge > Hit and Run > Repeat until all survivors are injured > Start committing chases > Get hook > Enter Door > Go to most progressed gen > Kick > Chase > Repeat
Nurse's lets me disrupt attempted heals and get very easy downs, which then feed into Pop to take the edge off any progress they make while injured and Thana helps keep the pace slow until someone is out. Another fun thing is that it conditions survivors to hard stare at whichever door is near their gen, so I occasionally get away with just walking up to them from the other direction. I'll usually pick my three-gen based on how free the hit is after coming through the door instead of where on the map they are.
I do lose with this build, but when it works it works. Also Nurse's is a really good way to set yourself up for a cheeky orbital. I love seeing them heal in jungle gyms. -
Maybe they're testing only offering it when the system detects it might be needed?