zonkednb
zonkednb
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088250#Comment_4088250
I not all pigs wanna meme and going against hex pigs that just overload you with things to do can be rough but when your killer is kinda ahh in chase I get it.
I have no problem with Pigs that try. She needs to be let out of the pen once in a while.
I'm specifically talking about players using Pig's reputation to their advantage. It's technically all fair in love and war and all that, but it feels like a betrayal every time. -
@Xendritch said:
I feel like if you did spectrum of red flag/green flag for killer mains Ghoul would be the tip of the red end and Pig at the tip of the green end. Pig mains always seem chill (except for the ones that just tunnel people with party hats but they're not that common).
I feel Pig has major red flag potential. There are those, we shall not call them Pigs, but Swines, who pretend to be memesters, and use it murder people.
Coming across a Pig player these days feels like a game of Among Us. She could be an imposter. -
This is honestly a sentiment I really like and want to rally behind. I'm newer to the community than many and have only the waxings of oldheads to help me understand the culture of the community and what has brought us to where it is now. I see a lot of negativity and grim forecasts, people calling the game dead/dying or stating it's never going to go back to the golden age. It sucks to arrive to a game as it's dying and being told over and over that is the case really takes the wind out of my optimistic sails.
I have my gripes, but I genuinely think DBD is a gem, a rough one, but a gem, and if all that is promised, or even most that is promised, comes around, I predict a new breath of life. -
I've not even been playing the game that long and I already have certain sound effects/voices burned into my head. While I love the idea of hearing Dwight talk and have actual personality beyond the lore description and player stereotypes, I fear any changes to the screams and grunts.
Hearing a Dwight go down across the map is almost a comfort noise to me. Makes me feel at home. -
I'm gonna be a bit of a defender here:
The new animations/models are not going live for some time yet, the uncanny stuff we saw before is effectively pre-alpha demo footage of the new animation system. So expect it to be a bit less uncanny, especially when not in smooth test lighting.
I can appreciate if it makes you feel squeamish, but they are not reworking the gameplay loop into a torture simiulator. You chuck people on the hook and they do the scream and make the face, same as now, just that the face will look a bit more expressive. I imagine moris will be similar. The wording used was supposed to sell it as scary, not promise you a bunch of discomfort.
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I'm hoping for a custom game creation system, akin to what Overwatch has. People made entirely new gameplay systems within it.
Being able to drag and drop tiles to make a functional new map, then sharing that, would be great. TF2's best and most balanced maps came from hobbyist mappers and were eventually incorporated into the game officially. DBD getting the same treatment would sure be something. -
@ArcT said:
They'll do literally anything except improve the survivor gameplay experience. No anti-tunnel. No anti-slug. No new mechanics. No new items. No new objectives.No new map props. But have new voice lines. And an oilier Kate.
Valid concerns but may we please have one thread where this isn't where we go with this?
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087855#Comment_4087855
One day ill work the courage not to rely on it, im not the best sadly
I'd say you're not really relying on it as much as you think. I used it a lot early days because I felt like I needed some slowdown and I had limited perks to work with, but I'm quite happy running 0 gen block/regression now.
I think the main think you're getting out of it is info, but you should get that same info from PR.
BBQ and Nowhere to Hide are also good on Nurse, as she loses when she can't find people. -
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087833#Comment_4087833
Michael Myers seems to just work straight forward. I would be more concerned about like.. the Plague? Dredge? Those are already concerning regarding accessibility in-game.
Like.. i will probably already die before those come even close to me, not sure if that will satisfy the Entity..Just go to your volume mixer and mute IRL sounds, that should deal with the sensory issues they cause.
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@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087843#Comment_4087843
I own evey killer other then Singulairty and Houndmaster, i just use No Holds Barred cuz im not confident enough without it yet, ill try that
i happily appreciate the advice
Fair enough! NHB is by no means a bad perk. It's a little slowdown and a good info perk, I guess I subconsciously associate it with people not having everything prestiged because it's the free gen slowdown perk.
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With Nurse, you just have to invest time until her blinks are easy to manage. Her low KR comes a lot from the initial hurdle, but you'll be surprised how few games it takes to start feeling more comfortable with how she moves and how long you need to charge for. There's really no "get good quick" advice for her because she ignores so much of the game that knowledge checks with her don't apply much.
Get better at blinking and don't use any perks with "basic attack" as a condition. If you're using No Holds Barred I'm going to presume you don't have every perk unlocked. Agitation is a pretty good free perk on her to offset how slow she is when hooking. -
The graphical update looks great. However I was much less sure about the update where Michael Myers literally breaks into your home and kills you when you get sacrificed. This is a potential accessbility issue.
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A poorly balanced game, more noticeable if this is in the killer's favour.
If the killer is loads better than me/my team, I'll do my best, but if you can't sustain a chase for any significant time then it's a lost game without any chance to fight back. You end up kinda just waiting for the game to finish even when trying your best.
Likewise, if I'm killer and I'm against babies that are so fresh they can't even figure out when I'm messing around instead of sweating, they just run away in a straight line. If I chase and down them I didn't outplay them once, all I did was walk to them, and if I try to meme around, they just run away and there's no interaction. -
Wishing all the best and a quick, smooth recovery. You got this, @CountOfTheFog o7
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David King is the one that interests me. I'm very familiar with the area he's from in the lore and know the accent/patter he'd have really well. His current VA is Stefan Hovarth (dev not professional VA iirc), who I'm unsure could reprise the role and pull off a convincing Mancunian accent.
However, if they recast David, we may lose his screams, and that'd hurt. David's screams are part of the DBD ambience to me. -
Killer buff:
Might test some patience with this one - restore some of Krasue's former vault speed in head form, but remove the AoE auto-aim aspect of her leeches when impacting a surface. A fully unassisted, telegraphed skill shot would allow for head form to be oppressive again, because if head form is even in play, Krasue has already made a decent play.
Killer nerf:
Everyone is saying Nurse. I've said before I don't want her to become reliant on standard chase. Instead, I want the intended play against her to be full stealth. No aura reads. Possiby a stealth related unique killer item for survivors to sacrifice gen time to acquire. Keep her a different flavour from everyone else, while making a game against a Nurse that measure their blinks correctly not feel lost from the loading screen.
Survivor Perk Nerf:
Vigil is ridiculous. Possibly the largest amount of guaranteed free value from a single perk in the entire game. It's so insanely bloated. Make it conditional, either by needing to be crouched/idle for 2s for it to activate, making it require you to be healthy, or giving it an action cost.
Survivor Perk Buff:
Autodiadact is so close to being a good perk, and in some games it pays off so well, but it being as inconsistent as it is make it gambling. I like a perk that rewards you for focusing on a playstyle and I like a perk that snowballs. Give it increased skill check chance, or one guanteed skill check at 90% heal progress as compensation if you get none while healing.Killer Perk Nerf:
Noed. It's a little better when bugged and you know its active before the killer gets a down, but ultimately I just think this perk is garbage design from a bygone era. Old =/= acceptable. Make it a token system based on how many hooks per game, with each swing taking a token away. When at 0 tokens, no more exposed. Still a hex so can be cleared early.
Killer Perk Buff:
Thanataphobia is in my top 10 killer perks rn because I'm enjoying playing drive-by axe ST with stacked anti-heal. It's a nice complement to that. I understand that the reason it isn't stronger is due to killers like Plague/Legion.
A kill shouldn't provide permanent passive slowdown but this perk straight up dies once you kill one. Make it so the 12% bonus applies if all alive survivors are hooked/injured. Indirect buff to Plague/Legion sure but it's not like they're the strongest killers in the game rn. -
@AlphaYandere said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086807#Comment_4086807
okay how woud a overal match mmr (vissible to anybody) be and the personal (only visible for yourself)
That could work without too much issue, although I'm sure some bad-faith people will be like "I'm 6* and lobby average was 4* gg soloq" but at least that isn't targeted so they can go ahead and say that if they want.
I have been in lobbies where I was super outmatched, and also been in lobbies where I was clearly above the other players. It's much more noticeable on the killer side because you interact with all the survivors very directly by comparison. I definitely see mismatches like this when I've filled into a lobby with multiple survivors already readied up. An average at the end would make those sting a bit less imo. -
Okay, but how then will I be able to comfort myself after a loss by presuming I was facing people way outside of my MMR bracket? /s
On a serious note, it would be nice to guage people beyond their prestige level, although I suspect the lowest number in the lobby will take blame regardless of who made mistakes. -
Many people here are unable to break free from DbD :(
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The most toxic I have been:
I hit someone on hook once. I was a fairly fresh Clown and it was my first experience getting juiced by a Yoichi that bagged and clicked on every pallet. I could not believe the rudeness. I remember my partner who is more of a veteran than I telling me once that hitting on hook is rude, so I showed him what for. He then told me in the post-game chat that he was going to… I'll just say enact immoral things to me. Oh, and I only downed him because "shake palet was gone."
The most toxicity I've received:
I wear the trans pride charm. I'm not trans myself, but I want to show support wherever I can, especially in this day and age. A Blight hard tunnelled me, hit me on hook over and over and let me be taken off hook just to do it again. Post-game chat: slurs directed towards who I was representing and telling me to get out of "his" game.
Runner up:
What I suspect was a four man clicking, bagging, stunning, flashlight saving etc etc. I was still fairly new at the time and getting destroyed by this while streaming to my friends. One of them said "Just hit them." I did, I slugged, I snowballed. I play anonymously and post-game was them laughing at me for being anonymous, trying to hide my 12k hours. I had less than 150 at the time.
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Yes, to varying degrees.
I'm someone that has these anxieties that eb and flow. Now, I am autistic, which may feed into it. Keep in mind what I'm saying below is not my average experience, just the kind of thought cycles that can cause it in me on a bad day:- Killer requires you to consider much more macro at once, making it quite stressful for people that are prone to being overwhlemed.
- Ego and shame. You're responsible for how your game goes, yes, but you are also 100% dictating how the game goes for the survivors to a very large degree. On bad days, small mistakes feel like your entire ass has been placed on a billboard. It's stagefright, essentially.
- Playing poorly and getting bullied is double humiliating as a killer because you're supposed to be the big scary, but instead feel like a snivelling wimp. It feels like you're letting yourself and the rest of the lobby down somehow.
- There's no real easing into learning a new killer, you just kinda get thrown in and there's as much likelihood of being treated poorly vs treated ambivilently if you don't perform well.
- Fear of the unknown. As a survivor, once you get into the match and first chase starts or you hear a TR, you know the kind of game you're getting, generally. As killer, skill level of survivors is so extremely variable that you could get looped for 5 gens or snowball at 5.
It's not rational thinking that causes this at all, and some people are able to compartmentalise that it's simply a game. Logically, I'm aware it's all silly pixels, and the worst outcome is rudeness from people who don't know me and do not impact my life in any way, but anxiety is not a rational process in most modern situations.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086527#Comment_4086527
Not really, it requires terror radius so it's weak against stealth killers, you can't really loop against trap killers like hag, trapper, or skull. Doctor has screams so he can more or less ignore it by instantly finding you again. Legion has killer instinct. Ranged killers can hit over most loops so you are really only left with dashslop killers that are primarily affected by it.
It's specifically strong on tall loops so the ranged aspect doesn't really apply outside of orbitals which are crapshoots anyway.
It's actually significantly stronger against Hag and Trapper because it's clear, intended use buffs some of the best counterplay against them: One survivor follows them and disarms all their stuff. Then when they have to M1 chase you without any set up, the elusive in chase applies again.
Legion only has KI in Frenzy, so if Legion actually wants a down, they'll be dealing with it same as anyone else. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086505#Comment_4086505
The thing is, thinking not enjoying to play against it and actually playing against it are different things. Which is the big problem, people jump to conclusions way too fast and then things get changed before they were actually properly tested. Fog Vials are a great example, you would probably see 0 complaints about original Fog Vials now (assuming they made them equal on all maps, what they eventually did). People complained because they were new and many people were using them, therefore they were very common. But instead of waiting a few weeks and let new toy syndrome disappear, people mass-complained and they were dead a week after going to Live. And yet the same people complain about Survivors bringing 4 Medkits all the time…
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086515#Comment_4086515
The problem is, if you make it work like Overzealous, it will be bad. Assuming that you mean that it should get an activation requirement which is too much to justify the benefit (which is the case for Overzealous). And I dont know if removing it in chase will do the Perk any good either, because what is the point then of bringing it? Maybe to line up for Flashlight-saves, but to be honest, I would rather use Background Player for it.
I hope for people actually playing against the Perk and then getting a feel of how they perform against it. And actually testing to play against it and not going to the Forums after one person had the Perk and they had a mild difficulty of getting them (but still a 4K…). I am also not sure if people are not underestimating it. We all chased someone with Iron Will and Lucky Break at some point and I think it is fine. And Elusive is nothing different, even if it is less investment and not on a timer.
And last but not least, the Perk being free is also not entirely correct. To have its use in a chase the Survivor needs to actually be good. So its not like it is an unearned buff, which turns mediocre players into Looping Gods. There are other Perks which are way more free.
But to be honest, I dont care too much about the Perk itself. I will most likely not use it, especially not when I consider that it will be nerfed anyway. I just really dislike the fact that new things for Survivor which MIGHT be good are nerfed immediatly. Makes it hard to feel any excitement about new things when you know that they will not stay like that.
The strong response comes from the fear many people have that it will make it to live as is and go untouched for god knows how long, and it'll make misery out of what was these people's hobbies. I'm definitely cautious about it because playing into it really really sucked when someone figured out the use that people are sounding the alarm about.
I maintain that I dislike it. Lucky Break and Iron Will are two perk slots, this is one. Lucky Break, Quick and Quiet, other perks of that nature are on a cooldown/have a requirement too. This is not. You do not need to be good in chase to make use of Cross Examination. You need to rotate around a tall loop once, then it's locked in until you leave the loop, then you keep it for a further 5s, which is years in DBD time. It's the jungle gym nightmare. If the killer catches you leave, great, but if they don't instantly spot you, which is the more common scenario, you'll make enough distance to probably reach another loop and repeat the cycle. I am not a good survivor and I strolled out of chases quite carefree.
I think there's a clear disparity between the intended design of the perk and how it was being used after a few days of PTB had passed. The Overzealous idea wouldn't kill it IMO, because if you continue to use it smartly, then you're not going to take the injury needed to remove it from you. Although, to elaborate, I think the only aspect of the perk that should have such a requirement would be its usability in chase. The outside of chase effects should be free because they're niche. Also, a different requirement to Overzealous, as I'm already wrestling players cleansing dulls for BP when I'm running Overz/Inners. Lend a Hand is going to make them an even more scarce resource.
Keep in mind, this is the only one of the three I dislike. I think Lend a Hand and Wide Open Throttle are both interesting, strong and potentially lead to some new gameplay situations. I wouldn't want them nerfed. In fact, reduce the WOT block to 30s and I'd still think it's okay. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086515#Comment_4086515
I don't care about this perk at all. I don't even intend to try it. But my point is it likely won't be strong for long because of certain trends in community reaction and BHVR's reposnses. I'm seeing the same pattern we just had with Fast Track.
I'd personally rather see new perks be strong so the meta will change. I'm tired of SB/Vigil. But we are never changing if new perks continue to be trash.
Lots of perks have zero investment. I can make a build for both roles that will activate throughout the match even if I'm AFK. This is more earned than, say, Deadlock or Alert. You do have to at least be moving and reacting, and it's not like Elusive teleports you away. You're still perfectly chaseable and downable. Like any stealth perk, if you misjudge, you die.
I want old FT back tbh.
Or, have you earn tokens for it by picking up a slug. That way instead of punishing hooks like so many claimed, it punishes slugging and makes for a more active role in the FT user.
That aside, Cross Examination is really horrible to play into. Yes, players make mistakes with it, but it's very easy not to. One tall wall, one nearby rock, boom, it's now pure luck if the killer sees you break chase or not. Plus, if it became meta I couldn't really see it shaking anything up. In fact, use SB and Vigil with it, and you can near guarantee getting to a tall loop to pull these shenanigans.
However, I appreciate people may want it to work as it does in chase, which is why I think it should be tested as a conditional, same vein as Overzealous, permanent until injured, then you need to invest time to re-up it. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086520#Comment_4086520
I mean, it's kinda hard not to assume you are a killer main when you are arguing against a perk that's actually good at countering a lot of the top tier killers and weak against the low tier killers.
It's pretty evenly strong against all killers, to be honest, with slight improvements vs aura junkies. The problem is the way it ended up being used, not as a stealth perk, but as a chase perk to freely remove scratchmarks, noise and guarantee a variable amount of distance.
If you want to keep its usefulness in chase, as opposed to the clear design intention of it being an out-of-chase-track-the-killer type affair, make it conditional like Overzealous, so if the killer outplays it or you try to break chase at the wrong time, you're punished instead of getting another shot at it. -
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086506#Comment_4086506
Yeah this is what I'm talking about. Just an overreaction to survivors getting something usable. Tell me do you also argue till your blue in the face that nurse should be nerfed or how about ghoul? What about stupidly strong killer perks like noed? Just need to ask to see if you are someone who is logically consistent or not.
Omg, is this my first time being accused of being a killer main?
It's like my very own forum baptism! However, I'll bite on the whataboutism for some fun:- Nurse needs work, yes. I'd prefer her to have a unique item/station to limit her, ideally keeping her play as is but giving survivors more agency against what is an impossible killer to counter at certain levels of play.
- Ghoul is not OP, but is unfun to go against and gives massive value for autoclicker-tier gameplay. Ghoul needs a sidegrade to make him more skill intensive, and his mark shouldn't be tied to deep wound. He doesn't need slowdown on top of mobility and chase power.
- I hate Noed. It's a pity perk for bad players. I never use it and want it either immediately visible so survivors know to find it, or reworked entirely.
Any more, bud?
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@cogsturning said:
My thoughts are that pretty much no new or recently reworked perk or item is allowed to be useful because this community won't tolerate it. So even if it survives this first wave of whining (which I doubt) it will almost certainly not survive the second wave after it goes live. Fog vials and Fast Track are good precedents for what happens nowadays.
I normally like your takes but in this case we're opposed forever. Within different tribes, never to reconcile… You… You survivor main!
For real though, the problem with the perk is it's too strong, too free, no investment required and always active. Its use in chase appears to be an oversight. Make it work like Overzealous or remove its chase function and it's golden. -
What about the instances where I have to camp?
You can still proxy camp with Jason super easily. Just throw your spike at them. Same way you can proxy with Huntress, Trickster, Springtrap etc.
All they did was disallow him from leaving to pressure elsewhere, then getting back to hook for an immediate tunnel without some kind of penality to it. Now camping has a proper opportunity cost.What about his animations? You cant honestly sit there and tell me theyre awesome and worth your money.
Valid criticism. I still think the rest of his design makes him worth playing, though.
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@esarraf said:
They are good, typical expected response though of everyone freaking out that survivors may get actually decent perks instead of slop.
They're very different. Instead of the design philosophy of "In this niche situation do x 1/2/3% faster" we've got stuff which geneuinely has interesting and unique effects. I'm quite excited for both Lend a Hand and Wide Open Throttle, as I'm expecting some interesting builds/unique plays. Although, going to be warring with Megs cleansing dull totems with no totem perks of their own.
I've noticed people's worries about the two above mentioned perks have eased, and while some are still concerned about the combo of Lend a Hand and Resurgence, it still requires set up, meaning survivors will delay themselves early game to get faster heals later. That's not too bad. The issue here is Resurgence, not Lend a Hand.
However, I'll argue 'til I'm blue in the face that Cross Examination needs fixing. What makes it so broken, anti-skill and anti-fun right now is how it can be used in way that is highly likely not the intended use. If people want the switch to stealth while in chase, give it a cooldown or give it a condition, such as gaining its effect after cleansing or doing x% of a gen, and losing it on taking hit. Otherwise, it needs to be specified to not work in chase as I'm quite confident the idea behind it was to allow you to follow the killer, maybe pick up a slug they leave behind without being spotted, or hide for a save. -
@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086479#Comment_4086479
I know, thats why i said possibly unchanged because the devs have no intent on changing it at the moment
I'm the rare optimist that believes this will be looked at, but the devs do not want to make a statement until they know what they are doing. The fixes are obvious. I don't mind another stealth perk but if it's going to be strong enough to break chase this reliably, it needs to be earned or limited in some way.
I also feel it's fairly obvious that the intended use is to follow the killer and not be seen, for whatever purpose you might have for that. Leaving loops in chase is likely not the thinking behind this perk. -
It's not releasing into live alongside Jason, so there's no real evidence for or against the idea of it being changed.
It's going to be problematic if released in its current state. It's a fog vial with no sound/visual cue, no cooldown and activated for free on any loop. I've heard people say "Just use your eyes instead of relying on scratchmarks" but that massively underplays both the hesitation losing a trail causes in terms of free distance, as well as how a killer, confined to limited FoV and first person (aside from Chucky, wolf Drac and head Krasue), spends considerable time in chase not being able to see the survivor.
I played against it on the PTB. It wasn't an issue at first but as soon as players at large realised it works in chase, it became infuriating to deal with. It basically makes leaving any tall loop free if the killer doesn't have LoS. If it didn't work in chase it would have a niche use for hovering for a save, opening the opportunity to do this close by and when injured, or, once you leave the light trail, it should go on a fairly long cooldown after the 5s is up. -
@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086443#Comment_4086443
The springtrap stereotype is completely new to me. I feel like springtraps are always somewhat different.
Cant really deny the trickster allegations though, they love to be toxic for some reason.
It's purely my experience. I think the main Springtrap stereotype is that they're kinda bad at the game.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086453#Comment_4086453
He gets money and maybe the money lets him buy a pallet break or faster vault or something lol. Would be fun.
The player gets wired money directly from BHVR.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086449#Comment_4086449
I was gonna say a bounty system and he gets a buff for chasing whos Wanted: currently.
That would make him more unique, especially if Slinger himself chooses who to apply the bounty to (with the obvious condition that you can't reapply it to a recently unhooked survivor).
Or maybe you become the bounty if you've contributed the most gen progress after a specific time, resetting the timer when you get downed. When a bounty appears, get KI briefly to set you on their trail. Win the 1v1, secure the hook, and get a reward.
Now it just depends on what that reward is. -
Ah yes, the perk for when I have an itchy nose or want to sip my drink.
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I agree that Slinger is weak, but that's because the skill floor with him is so high, with a higher skill ceiling. If you're not closing out chases with him quickly, you are losing, because you get no soft landing in the form of quickly applying pressure elsewhere, or secondary objective slowdown.
That being said, 4.6 isn't the right direction for him. Encouraging less use of his power would undercut his identity a little.
Something that encourages use of his power and rewards good use of it, sort of like Trickster's rank system, would be nice and make him feel a bit more satisfying.
So, using rank as placeholder name for this system and spitballing:- Consecutive hits with his power increases his rank.
- Missing with his power lowers his rank but significantly less than hits increase it.
- Each rank gained increases base reload speed and base reeling speed.
- At maximum rank, progress gets locked and Slinger can choose when to activate it.
- Once activated, Slinger can injure and down without reeling in by landing a shot with an even faster reload speed, for a short duration. This will have a global cue for when ready to activate, when activated, and when complete.
- Slinger then returns to base level. Repeat.
It would make him reward more for accuracy/consistency. Numbers would need significant tweaking to avoid this being a 'wait to snowball' sitaution, but I don't claim the game design chops to know what the numbers should be.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086421#Comment_4086421
I agree with all that, But I think its much easier for a team as whole to come back from slugging if they are competent vs tunnel can feel like no chance even if you are decent in chase.
a early tunnel out that's one less person on gen for whole match
where as slugging you can leave them there for a decent amount of time, get gen done then go pick up while killer is trying to slug others (granted this only helps if team isn't going down constantly but at that point they playing good even if they where hooking normally would be winning)Tunneling is definitely lower risk, especially if you look for the weak link. I still think it depends. Experienced survivors are going to respond better to slugging and you pose the risk of failing to progress the gamestate at all while also wasting significant time. The act of a 4-man slug itself is less the skill vs knowing when it's time to full commit it. So I still feel like it depends.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
Greetings fellow fog creatures.
I got a question for you. Why are mythical quantons you encounter in the wild sea of soloq always either a baby or a 15.000 hour god?
And why do stereotypes like this even occur? Why does ace always have dead hard? Why is sable even more of a meghead than meg? And why do ghouls eat crayons?
I am genuenly interested in regards to how stereotypes like this form.
Your own stereotypes are of course welcome.
The Ghoul stereotype comes from Ghoul not being particularly difficult to play compared to their value. It's less a stereotype and more commentary on the low skill floor.
I literally do not understand why it's always a Sable but it is. Unless it's some major confirmation bias. I have definitely come up against some cracked Sables when I've been on killer, though. It's not universal.
Some of my own stereotypes (unsure if true but based on my anecdotal experience):- Springtraps using default skin are either children or completely cracked while being chill. The cracked ones will double hook everyone at 4 gens then play for jumpscares and maybe kill 1 survivor if they bag. However, Springtraps using a paid skin, especially the Blighted skin, play the dirtiest, taking full advantage of Springtrap being one of the best proxy campers in the game. I am the exception as a default Springtrap main that is neither cracked nor a child.
- Eto Neas are usually BM city. Full chase perks + flaslights + bag at every pallet/vault. However, unlike bunny Fengs, they have the skill to back it up, making them my most feared opponents.
- Nic Cages are just in it for the chaos. If the comedic timing is there for it, they will Plot Twist.
- Clowns are not toxic in the slightest, but play full NPC mode. They are joyless.
- I've noticed an uptick in mean Pigs. I feel I missed cute Pig's prime. I suspect it's trauma from pallet density.
- I've never met a Mikaela that is good at the game. This includes me. I main Mikaela.
- Dwight has the same stereotype as Quentin to me. Either complete baby or insane, no in-between.
- David Kings wanna just do their gen. They'll deal with chase but never seek it out.
- Mina players play for the Mori. Trickster players in general have been the ones I've had the most direct toxicity from, excluding Bubba, but Bubba is Bubba so it doesn't count.
- Default Wraiths are babies, Silent Bell Wraiths are bad at chase and every other Wraith is going to test your chase skills to the limit.
- Nemesis tunnels.
- Leons try to be heroes and end up throwing. Adas bring altruism/save perks then proceed never to use them.
- Springtraps using default skin are either children or completely cracked while being chill. The cracked ones will double hook everyone at 4 gens then play for jumpscares and maybe kill 1 survivor if they bag. However, Springtraps using a paid skin, especially the Blighted skin, play the dirtiest, taking full advantage of Springtrap being one of the best proxy campers in the game. I am the exception as a default Springtrap main that is neither cracked nor a child.
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I'm not a fan of either playstyle as I don't think they're particularly fun to go for nor face, but I'm going to say it depends.
If you don't bring perks that complement 4-man slugging, it's going to be a lot harder. Likewise, a lot of tunnelling killers drop any chase that's slightly hard to find the one survivor on the team that can't handle the pressure of being tunnelled, then go for them. -
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086123#Comment_4086123
When the game had just added myers i recall wraith being the most fun pick for me at the time lol
He would probably draw some players if he had a legendary of somekind, but no license comes to mind involving a bell power
Bloodborne maybe? The bell ringers?
Bell related power. Could reasonably have a weapon. Unique sounds/mori and you get to be a lady. -
@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086123#Comment_4086123
Power may be boring to watch but the skins he's been getting as of late are 10/10 W Art Team
Yep yep. His Rift skin is actually brilliant.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
A p100 Wraith main? He seems to be played often enough but hes barely ever talked about or even used as an icon on these forums
Wraith's relative simplicity gives a high skill ceiling, but also works against him because he's just not very glamourous. Playing Wraith is fun, but watching him is more of an acquired taste. I think people just like having cool powers and high potential for skillshots/dopamine rushes. Wraith is much more chill than that, despite having to earn his wins.
I also think his aesthetics are dated, meaning he doesn't draw people in beyond being the killer you learn how to play killer with, before graduating to the one that draws you in most. -
If it's a friend of mine joining the game, I'll usually take them into a custom, let them get a feel for however their chosen first role plays and play against them with some bots for them to practise on/with. If I'm survivor, I'll let them chase me to places where they could learn some basics. If I'm killer, I take it easy on them while they get a handle on how to interact with the map and its elements, occasionally testing them with a more intentional chase.
If it's an obvious baby in the wild, it's different.
If it's a baby killer, I just play the game normally. I feel there's very little I can do to be 'nice' to a baby killer. If i let them get free hits I could cause an undeserved snowball, hurting my teammates, and if I try to interact with them in a silly way, it can just as easily come across as mockery. So, I just play the game and wish them well in the post-game chat.
If I find a baby survivor, I usually treat them quite similar to others until their first hook, then spread hooks to their more competent teammates. Sometimes I'll injure them then drop chase to give them a scare, or get the second hook mid-late game to put the fear of God into them. After that, if I have the breathing room, I'll act sillier. I'll let them think they juked me with stealth. I'll hang around a room I know they're hiding in and give them the Alien Isolation experience (except I don't play Xeno), and otherwise try to foster a memorable game for them where they don't feel totally dumpstered the whole time. Maybe if they get a stun on me in chase I'll give them a few nods. I'm also more likely to give them hatch if they did their best and didn't give up. -
My reason for disliking 3-4 slowdown perks that specifically target gens is, compared to other forms of slowdowns, there's no real decision making on how to deal with them beyond small things like dying edgemap to limit PR or timing letting go when a hook is about to occur.
Other forms of pressure generated by anti-heal or chase perks have much more active decision making in order to deal with, keeping the game varied. Gen slowdown just stretches the game out without any meaningful change to play.
Likewise it really doesn't adjust killer play all that much. Just chase people around and hope the passive regression/blocks buy you enough time to win by default, if you're not able to close chases quickly. I tend not to full stack this kind of slowdown, and more often than not I don't bring a single gen perk.I think survivor players in general don't want specific perks. I think they just want there to be more variety in build design. PR & DMS would not bother me at all if it was not present every few games.
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My heart wants to say Nightmare from Soulcalibur, as that was my fighting game of choice back when I was young and spry enough to keep up with them. (Zasalamel main btw)
But I just do not see it working as well as Shao Khan, who would probably be my choice of the MK case despite not being my favourite. He's the right balance of iconic, predisposed to murder and different from killers we already have.
Plus any MK license would be obliged to have the highest-effort Mori. -
I think this take is pretty universally popular. Or, at the very least, should not effect hindered that originates from a killer power as opposed to a perk.
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The problem is there's limited things a survivor can do to adjust to regression perks, compared to other forms of slowdown. I love a good anti-heal build, even on killers that wouldn't usually run it. I don't hit & run, but when I hit a survivor and see them use their haste to rush to the side of the map with no gens, I can privot knowing that if they come back they cannot afford to give me that hit again, and if they want to heal, it'll take time and likely get interrupted (Nurse's is my favourite perk in the game rn). Basically, I like my slowdown to come from pressure.
This usually results in me getting a few hookstates deep before the survivors start adjusting how they play to counter the build, and that doesn't include the cases where they just happened to bring a build that heavily counters this kind of pressure (dedicated heals, resurgence, multiple people with resilience).
Were I to go for slowdown specifically targeting gen progress, I'm bypassing all the indirect means and going straight for the objective of the game. It's guaranteed value, no playstyle adjustment needed from me and limited options for the survivors. Even pre-empting PR to avoid being forced into a scream or tapping a 0% gen to force a low-value DMS doesn't fully cancel out the value the killer gets. Pair this with a couple of perks for any playstyle you want, like Enfury for aggressive M1 chase/clearing resources or Sloppysteria for hit and run, and you might be a little less oppressive compared to a full dedicated build functioning at max value, but you're covered for the many many times it won't.
That's the issue, and why I feel no one really has a good solution, being both generalist and strong is always going to be better than being specialist and strong over multiple games. A shame, because the only regression perk I like is TBtC, and that's pure convenience.
I actually don't think regression/slowdown builds are overpowered. They're just too consistent. -
@HoodedWildKard said:
My hot take is that the game would be better with a casual/ranked playlist split. Always gets me downvotes 🤣
2nd place is killers don't *have* to play for the 4k every game. Letting a survivor get hatch, or even letting 2 survs finish gens and go makes the game more pleasant.
I feel the downvotes come less from the concept in a vacuum, and more the belief of the consequences of such a split. Queue times would be worse in casual and borderline unplayable in ranked. Sweaty slug-for-the-4k type players will keep doing the same thing, just in casual now. Doing too well in casual, even if you're just vibing, will have the now much thicker survivor rulebook tossed at you.
I 100% agree with the 2nd point. Once I've got a 3k, finding the final survivor for the 4k is just pointless busywork. The outcome of the game has already come down to luck. Slugging for it is just forcing one survivor to sit and wait while you spend up to 4 minutes looking for their teammate, who is obviously going to stealth for hatch. I've alreayd made my point with 3, I'll get 4 if I find hatch before the last guy. Or I might give it, if they're cute.
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@Chomperka said:
Chucky because i feel like my chases against him last like 20 seconds since i cant see him, he has some incredible advantage in looping… although people say he's isn't strong so just me i guess.
Also wesker because buggy mess they call "techs" and his playerbase are tunnelers, i know that 90% i'm not escaping that trialOn Chucky - He can definitely trip you up, and I feel the large roster of killer stops people getting good practise against him. His main advantage is his camera view, which can make mindgaming him much harder as he effectively benefits from one of the survivors' main advantages.
Thing is, he's 4.4 and struggles like hell on tight loops. His feet are visible through any short-mid-height wall (basically any loop you'd be able to see a regular-sized killer over, you get wallhacks on Chucky's feet through) You can waste a lot of his time and he has no real mobility so his time is precious. -
@cogsturning said:
Lord that's a hard choice. I dislike half this roster. Probably Twins? With a lot of killers, it's the players and not the kit that I dislike. But Twins has such a god awfully designed kit. If they were popular and I saw them everyday I honestly might drop survivor entirely.
Second place probably goes to Legion. Annoying as hell and I think Killer Instinct is the most poorly designed mechanic in the game. It shouldn't exist.
I feel Twins are so damn rare that I just don't get the chance to learn how to play against them. I can kidnap Victor to the opposite corner, but when things don't go perfect I struggle to know what I should be doing to avoid a snowball.