weirdkid5
weirdkid5
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@JoannaVO said:
@Nickenzie said:
JoannaVO said:@Unnamed_Freak said:
@JoannaVO said:
@Unnamed_Freak said:
It just surprises me that there's people who defend all gens being done under 4 minutes. Like, that's absolute bulllshit, it should never happen.
Then use ruin, simple as that.
You should never be forced to use a perk to cover bad game design, that's absolute bulllshit.
But there's no reason to make the base game good enough to not make you need perks. That takes away the whole idea of perks.
Survivors don't need perks but the killer does or else they will get rushed. Like I said before, regardless how bad the killer is, the game shouldn't end in 4 minutes period.
Yes, killers do definetly need perks, but if a player decides to not use perks for whatever reason then the fault is kind of on the person itself that survivors do the objective in 4 minutes. It's their only objective besides unhooking. I usually use thrill of the hunt with ruin and it gives me enough time to apply pressure.
This is where we disagree. The Killers should be strong enough to win without perks. Perks should be reworked to augment the gameplay, in fashions that certain perks already do. If you have to DEPEND on perks for a certain Killer, that Killer is just garbage, like Wraith for Trapper. Nurse and Billy are really the only two that can win without perks without much extra effort.
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@Poweas said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@Poweas said:
@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.
Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.
Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.
No you don't understand Nurse at all do you? Survivors can't do much against her, she will catch them and she'll do it quickly. She can't 'force mistakes' because she doesn't rely on them to win like the others. Killers who force mistakes are only Billy and Hag. They can force mistakes. Nurse can go there and blink. You need to understand her mechanics properly in order to see that she doesn't rely on the survivors messing up. You might be a Nurse who dominates at rank 1, who am I to say that you're not. But you definitely don't understand Nurse.
I speak from a Survivor standpoint. Like I said, I've never had a problem with Nurses, even at Rank 1.
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@JammyJewels said:
PiiFree said:@JammyJewels said:
I presumed you were addressing me. But it’s okay. I do not agree with a squad being an example of balance: the Devs have been trying to design the game around solo survival, not having vocal communication and organisation. SWF’s concept was added out of demand for it and has been said multiple times to not be in the game’s original design, and so comparing the power of an organised group to a singular person is not valid, in my eyes. The four, if they are communicating and know what they’re doing, will always be a more powerful force than the singular person. In solo survival the only way such teamwork could be established would be through natural leadership, through the survivors analysing perks and situations (like noticing someone had Prove Thyself) they face. Good survivors will beat bad killers, good killers will stomp bad survivors. But a good group, an already composed and communicating group, will always beat the good killers. It is only when all four survivors are solo when the true powers of killers are revealed.
Do you know that 70% of the matches include Survive with Friends?
Now that you know this, do you think it's better to balance the game around a minority and therefore have 70% of all matches rigged and in favour of Survivors?
Or do you think it would be better to balance the game around the majority and therefore have only 30% of all matches rigged and in favour of the Killer?
Keep in mind that the 30% at a disadvantage have a choice, they can always invite friends to play in a SWF while the Killers have no way to consistently avoid the 70% of rigged matches. Plus if they had a way to do so, it would lead to ~70% less matches because not many Killers would want to play rigged matches.
Actually... matches should never be in anyone’s favour. This is a PvP game after all. But to blame or punish solo survivors for the actions of grouped survivors, even if solos are the minority, is wrong. Especially given the original design for the game was for each survivor to essentially be solo, to not know if they can trust their teammates. If we were to balance the game around SWF the core design of the game is thrown out of the window and solo survivors are weakened for no fault of their own. Some people are more terrified on their own and so play on their own. Others have no one to play the game with. To force someone to group up just because of people they do not associate with is silly.
This is why I still believe one of the only real solutions to this is to make two modes of Ranked play, one that is traditional, and another that involves 5 man teams, with one dedicated Killer, facing off against another 5 man team. The team that overall gets the better emblems is the winner.
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@powerbats said:
@weirdkid5 said:
I'd say take the top 20% and bottom 20% as a good compromise. This should allow the middle to balance itself.
I agree with this since that way you get the best of both worlds average wise without making killers op or underpowered.
Holy #########... did we just...
agree?...
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@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
the old "it's ok when i make these claims because i'm mysteriously more justified", classic
no, there is no difference, you are just doing the same thing you call others out on.
The old Fallacies when you can't disprove my claims make something up routine.
Yes there is a difference you just don't want to admit it because you know I'm right.
We know for a fact that not every lobby is a 4 man swf with insta heals, ds/ad/dh etc etc etc despite the claims to the contrary.
We also know for a fact that it does happen with 3-4k with nurses etc at red ranks with 1,2 or no gens done same for others. But because you just can't accept facts you like to troll.
This goes back to the fact that the game needs to be balanced around top level players. Just because it doesn't happen in every match doesn't mean that it should continue to exist.
I know I make a lot of comparisons to other games, but if the game insists on having a "Ranking" system and people use that during debates and use of statistics from the devs, then the game needs to commit to the ranking system and balance around the top players, like others games such as Siege do. I'm not saying this game needs to be balanced around the top 1% or anything, but it definitely doesn't need to be balanced around Rank 20s either.
I'd say take the top 20% and bottom 20% as a good compromise. This should allow the middle to balance itself.
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@PiiFree said:
@Aven_Fallen said:
@PiiFree said:
@Aven_Fallen said:
Besides that, the only issue I have with the new Prove Thyself is, that it can be very good for organized SWF, but not as effective for Solo players. If I would use Prove Thyself and I am working on a Gen with another Survivor running it, one of us has a useless Perk at this point. Or, I can simply work alone on a Gen and Prove Thyself does nothing. Or, I need to run Bond, to make it effective. All of those things an organized SWF does not have.
But I think with those, there are other areas where actions should be taken.You should read the description for Prove Thyself again because it seems like you don't really understand how it works. If you have Prove Thyself and work with someone else, you get 10% bonus speed. If the other person also has Prove Thyself, they also get 10% bonus speed. If a 3rd Survivor with prove thyself works on that gen, everyone gets a 20% repair speed boost.
That's the MAIN issue. It's a perk that promotes gen rush and it's a perk that can be used at it's full potential mainly by coordinated SWFs - something that's already imbalanced and hard to deal with while it's pretty much useless for solos.
Well done!
Am I stupid or are you stupid?
"Survivors can only be affected by one Prove Thyself effect at a time."Good question. Does it mean that only ONE survivor at a time can be affected or does it mean only ONE prove Thyself effect can be buffed per survivor?
One would result in an individual 20% boost and the other one would result in 3x 10% boosts.
Only one Prove Thyself buff works at a time. They don't stack.
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@PiiFree said:
@Peanits said:
This is correct. It was faster in fact because previously the generator speed penalty for multiple survivors working in the same generator was not working correctly. With 2.5.0, that was fixed and it now applies properly. By default, multiple survivors are slower and prove thyself negates that.Short version is that it hasn't really changed, you just need a perk now to do what you could do without a perk before.
Are you saying that for the past 2.5 years Killers were given the illusion that multiple survivors on gens = slower repair speed but that wasn't even the case?
I'm not sure what to think about that tbh.
If you remove the "multiple Survivors" penalty with Prove Thyself, it turn the 33,3s gens into 26.6s gens.
While this doesn't look like a lot, it's actually 20% faster and if you add those 20% up for 5 gens, you skip a whole generator simply for running this perk. It doesn't require anything else.
As a comparision: A Killer requires 4 hooks to get a similar result with Pop Goes The Weasel.
Big oof
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@Freudentrauma said:
@PiiFree said:
I'm just sitting here wondering why the powerrole Killer has to be played rather flawlessly to achieve something while it's enough for Survivors to just sit at gens and hit space once in a while to win the match?I like playing Killer, I like the pressure and the unforgiving gameplay but I must say; if 2 bad blinks and one "not-so-optimal" decision are enough to throw the match, that's way too harsh. Imagine if that was any other Killer besides Nurse? Most likely would've ended up in a 4x escape.
I said it already in another thread: If Survivors can hit great skill checks and priorize gens, they will make most killer depip. There's not much left that you have to learn as Survivor when you know how to use a keyboard & mouse or controller.
Not to mention that those Survivors didn't even play good and still people think that only a truly high skilled Nurse should be able to beat them? That's ridiculous.
That's the issue with asymmetrical games. Even though the game is 1vs4 people expect the game to feel fair for both sides in a 1on1 scenario (chase). Otherwise people would feel the game to be unfair or not fun.
Additional to that a killer has no natural way to control the entire match, while in a chase. The objective is totally in the hand of the survivors as soon as the killer is chasing, which leads to the "Gen rush" issue.
The problem with DbD is that Killers can't really run a good strategy when it comes how survivor do objectives, except the three-gen-strat. But this one requires a good perk-addOn-combo, good gen spawns and can actually be very boring for both sides, because it takes very long time for a killer to down people while working on this strat.
The other option is snowballing/high pressure, which requires short chases(no killer, but many survivor mistakes) to have a perfect match, which is probably why we have this weird mentality in this thread.There are still other asymmetrical experiences that manage to be balanced and work well. One of these is Dungeons and Dragons, which is effectively the Dungeon Master vs. the players. I realize D&D is a completely different style of game, but some of the same concepts are in play, namely that both Killers and the DM need to have the ability to accurately predict what the other side wants to do in order to make a compelling experience for both sides.
With this in mind, the Killer needs more ways of actually controlling the map outside of his presence alone. This is pretty much the only way you can balance this kind of game. It's why Hag is a somewhat decent Killer, because her traps are a variable that keeps her presence high while allowing her to make plays based on prediction of Survivor movement.
There should be two main kinds of Killers, Rush Killers and Control Killers. We already have plenty of rush with Nurse, Billy, and Huntress all of whom can keep up with top level Survivors if accurate predictions are made, but the genrush is still an issue even for them. The control, like Doc, Trapper, Pig and the like, need to be able to either delay the Survivors more effectively, or need to have their powers drastically buffed in order to be on the same level as the rush killers.
Or, there needs to be some kind of baseline map control that all Killers are capable of doing, with some being better than others based on how effective they are in the chase. There are a couple ways you could go about this. Evolve on launch had a pretty reasonable balance, at least for the experiences I had. After the DLC characters started getting added the balance went way out of whack. I never played Stage 2.
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@DocOctober said:
How about you just buy the DLC and shut up with the incessant complaint?You ok Doc? Need someone to talk to homie?
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According to the wiki, BBQ has only ever appeared once on the Shrine. There are still perks like Surveillance that have never appeared apparently.
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Shrines_of_Secrets_Archive#Past_Shrines_of_Secrets
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@Theluckyboi said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@PiiFree said:
@BlackReaper said:
@Detective_Jonathan@ModernFable said:
It’s to visualize the “Co-op Deficiency.”When you work on a Gen you do it at 100% speed.
When two people work on a Gen they do it at 180% speed, or 90% each.
Since you’re not repairing at 100% speed individually, they show a red bar.
You still repair much faster together, but that’s the explanation.
you almost right, if you do a gen alone you do it at 100% speed, (grey bar),
but when two repair a gen they get a 20% penalty for both, 10% for each one but it stake for everyone.
example: -1 doing a gen 100%
-2 doing a gen 80% each one= 160%
-3 doing a gen 70% each one= 210%
-4 doing a gen 60% each one= 240%
its a really hard nerf for gen rushing cooperatively and prove thyself block that penalty, read the new description of prove thyself and you will see its how im saying.Did they just recently nerf that?
It used to be 100% / 90% / 80% / 70%.
Resulting in:
1 Surv = 100%
2 Survs = 180%
3 Survs = 240%
4 Survs = 280%This is correct. Each successive survivor incurs a 10% penalty. 2 Survivors are 90% each, not 80% like @BlackReaper said
well, its official, rush thyself is going to become meta
With Prove Thyself if 3 Survivors work together, all 5 gens will be done in 133 seconds as opposed to 160 seconds if 3 players were doing them individually.
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@PiiFree said:
@BlackReaper said:
@Detective_Jonathan@ModernFable said:
It’s to visualize the “Co-op Deficiency.”When you work on a Gen you do it at 100% speed.
When two people work on a Gen they do it at 180% speed, or 90% each.
Since you’re not repairing at 100% speed individually, they show a red bar.
You still repair much faster together, but that’s the explanation.
you almost right, if you do a gen alone you do it at 100% speed, (grey bar),
but when two repair a gen they get a 20% penalty for both, 10% for each one but it stake for everyone.
example: -1 doing a gen 100%
-2 doing a gen 80% each one= 160%
-3 doing a gen 70% each one= 210%
-4 doing a gen 60% each one= 240%
its a really hard nerf for gen rushing cooperatively and prove thyself block that penalty, read the new description of prove thyself and you will see its how im saying.Did they just recently nerf that?
It used to be 100% / 90% / 80% / 70%.
Resulting in:
1 Surv = 100%
2 Survs = 180%
3 Survs = 240%
4 Survs = 280%This is correct. Each successive survivor incurs a 10% penalty. 2 Survivors are 90% each, not 80% like @BlackReaper said
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@PiiFree said:
I'm just sitting here wondering why the powerrole Killer has to be played rather flawlessly to achieve something while it's enough for Survivors to just sit at gens and hit space once in a while to win the match?I like playing Killer, I like the pressure and the unforgiving gameplay but I must say; if 2 bad blinks and one "not-so-optimal" decision are enough to throw the match, that's way too harsh. Imagine if that was any other Killer besides Nurse? Most likely would've ended up in a 4x escape.
I said it already in another thread: If Survivors can hit great skill checks and priorize gens, they will make most killer depip. There's not much left that you have to learn as Survivor when you know how to use a keyboard & mouse or controller.
Not to mention that those Survivors didn't even play good and still people think that only a truly high skilled Nurse should be able to beat them? That's ridiculous.
Can I send you a cookie?
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Prove Thyself is pretty good for genrushing now.
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@powerbats said:
@NoShinyPony said:
You were saying that the game isn't easy for solo survs.
You can't do a lot against super good nurses in general. Hasn't anything to do with SWF or solo.Well sadly most games whether it's been Nurse, Huntress, Billy, Myers, or even a Bubba have been 3-4k's since patch came out.
Oh and offerings just came up on current match and black ward fml lol.
I'm starting to think if there was any kind of serious competitive mode in this game, add-ons would be disallowed and only perks could be used. Add-ons range from being useless to basically making the game one-sided. There needs to be a baseline balance before things like this are considered.
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@AntiJelly said:
@sorrowen said:
Its basically Bhvr doubling down on the already fast gen meta but Bhvr loves taking their time fixing issues like Freddy's buffs or they shadow nerf which they have been doing.You complain about this minor perk buff, but not toolboxes? You are quite the enigma.
Except it isn't a "minor buff." Normally it takes 160 seconds to repair all 5 gens if all 3 Survivors are doing a proper genrush.
If the Survivors run leader and all work together, they will have all 5 gens done in 133 seconds. That's nearly a half a minute saved. This isn't even considering toolboxes or other gen repair bonuses.
"Minor buff" lol
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Well honestly I can't say I'm surprised.
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Even the devs want to make new modes, but the Survivor playerbase is too afraid of a "split playerbase" and by this they mean they won't be able to find Killers willing to put up with their bullshit.
Of course this game's population could easily handle another game mode, but the propaganda continues to spread via SWF groups. Also, if SWF groups acknowledge Killers don't want to deal with them, then they unconscionably acknowledge that SWF is unfair, but since you get to play with your friends it doesn't really matter for the Killer player, who is pretty much at mercy to them unless you're playing Nurse.
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@Tsulan said:
Is it just me or does this seem terribly favored towards survivors?You mean like everything else the game has to offer?
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@NeoVid said:
Here's a screenshot of the new and improved totem placement!Pretty bad job so far.
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@Poweas said:
@weirdkid5 said:
Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.
Nurse's success is based on her skill. Tru3, was not playing as skilled as top tier Nurse's would have.
Nurses success also still depends on Survivors making mistakes, Nurse just has the ability to force mistakes, which other Killers do not. Smart Survivors can still dominate even a good Nurse. The only time Nurse becomes borderline unstoppable (at least to me) is if she has 4 or more blinks. I've personally never had issues with good Nurses, but someone's gonna say anecdotal evidence don't matter.
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Tru3 got outplayed in this match, but it's not like that's very hard to do if you are a coordinated team.
If he had some perks he would have had some better luck. At the same time, the Survivors could have played better to. Both sides were pretty potato in this match. People saying if Tru3 played better he coulda got the 4k, but the effort needed to do that is much higher than the effort needed for Survivors to get a 4 escape. If the Survivors played better, the opposite would have happened. Killer success is solely dependent on Survivor mistakes.
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@twistedmonkey said:
@weirdkid5 said:
Killers make up about 20% of the population, so your percentages are way off. Given the game is a 4v1, that means 80% are Survivors and 20% are Killers. People need to realize that not each Survivor should be equal to the Killer.
Do you understaand percentages? its not about the 80%/20% ratio, I dont know what to say when you wite such things, let me spell it out the 1-5% are top players, say there were 10k survivors in total playing so that is 100 to 500 players they balance on leaving the other 9500 at a disadvantage.
That's how a game's balanced works. Siege top players make up less than 1% but still decide the balance for the rest of the players.
weirdkid5 said:
Pushing an agenda? You mean like the corporate agenda you keep pushing? The "it makes the cash so keep doing it" agenda? Please. I can have issues with something and still love it. The two are not mutually exclusive and the fact you can't grasp this concept baffles me. Push an agenda? I'm just giving feedback bro. You're taking what I'm saying super out of proportion. It doesn't matter to me what the rest of the community wants, this is why we have opinions and forums, for everyone to give their opinion. And in my opinion, the game is extremely unfun for most Killer players. Funny you mention saying the same thing over and over again.
Seriously what are you on about? do you beleive what you write? an agenda is something someone keeps pushing regardless if it will ever change just because they that is all they want, saying I am a corporate aplogist again is really laughable I am just saying how it is in the business world and I accept it, I am not one who goes around ignoring simple facts, hating yet loving a game calling it junk, thats just sad, really sad.
To say the game is unfun for MOST killer players, please, send me the actual figures of how many think that way otherwise its a fictional number you want to beleive as it suits what you think, think about it if that were the case you would see thousands more stating their opinion, the fact that the MAJORITY dont tells you they are fine or accept how it is.
The business world and mentality is a detriment to gaming overall, the slow fall of the big 3 titans is evidence enough of that, where as companies like CD Projekt Red gain many new fans for their transparency and willingness to extend aspects of the game players want.
weirdkid5 said:
And one product can sustain indefinitely, or at least an extremely long time. Look at TF2, a game that came out over a decade ago and still has over 100k active players, and still gains more every day. This is because the game eventually went community based, they listened to feedback, put in community weapons, requests, and maps, and it made the game flourish.
Yes like CS:GO, DOTA etc all valve games they pushed, you miss the actual reasons these games do well, one they are free or cheap, two they are one of the best at what they do, three they keep adding content, now look at DBD and tell me they are not similar in terms of those games in what they do? it is just that DBD is more of a niche product.
They also are reasonably balanced, whereas DbD is not.
weirdkid5 said:
Again, Killers make up 20% of the population and there are still a good number of Survivor players that agree with me. I can direct you to a few Discord groups for a couple hundred of them. I have no issues facing the same people over and over as long as my matches don't take 20 minutes to find. I play Overwatch and face the same people plenty of times, this is an irrelevant "issue" for me. The ranking system and balance are two completely separate issues. The ranking system will always be flawed if the balance is flawed. You can't just neglect 20% of your playerbase. The only reason Killers are still in this game is because most Survivors are incapable of playing without perks like DS and SC (this is a fact based on BHVR stats, 80% of Survivors use SC). If the game was properly balanced, SC would get nerfed from pickrate alone.
Yes killers make up 20% of the population but the whole issue is in this thread, I may agree with some of the things you say but I dont agree to them all, some will also have the same views with myself, so take you figures a couple of hundred of them, no think about the owners of the game and how many play daily/weekly, DBD when it was around 18k average has over 250k players log in each month so it will be more now, so lets go off 500k, 20% of that is 100k so your couple of hundred is the minority statistically speaking.
These percentages you made are nothing more than speculation.
Perks are irrelevant and some do need balanced and I beleive DS should be removed but thats not what this thread is about, its about how people play the game and hwo it affects the majority of players not just the ones who gen rush, if you take stats killer average more kills than escapes, the last figures the devs shown were each killer had between 55-60% kill rate sodoes that mean killers are OP? not in the slightest but it means the game is almost at the 50/50 mark or close enough.
These kill stats also account for disconnects, rage quits, and stupid survivors that throw themselves at camping Killers instead of just leaving. That stat would be much lower if these aspects were not taken into consideration.
weirdkid5 said:
Except it doesn't debunk anything, because many of these numbers are already conflated. The 63k peak was during a month that had a FREE WEEKEND, so obviously many players are going to log in. Also copies that were sold for free on either PS4 or Xbox One count towards the 5 million figure. Fortnite releases new content, but also continuously gains new players, and is a free game. DbD, outside of free events or seasonal events, has a hard time maintaining a playerbase beyond 10-15k. This is why they churn out so many events now, to artificially pad playtime and incentives players to not miss out on exclusive content.
Of course it does, the 5 million figure is for Steam only not console, the stats I say are for Steam only not console so there are many more to add if you want to bring them into it, DBD releases new free content you can earn through playing, new DLC to purchase where as fortnite sells skins and faster XP rates etc, both have a business model but they differ that is all, DBD has peaked below 20k ave per month since may 2017, come back when you research figures a little better.
The 5 million goald DOES account for consoles sales if I'm not mistaken. The game has sold 5 million Wordlwide, this includes all platforms. Fortnite you can also earn through playing, you can earn VBucks in Save the World as well as from the Battle Pass, making it so you never need to spend a dime on Fortnite outside of buying Save the World, which is cheaper than Dead by Daylight. Also not all cosmetics can be bought with Shards, some are auric cells only.
weirdkid5 said:
This is the point of forums, to give your personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, the game is terrible for Killers. Making the Killers better WOULD be better for the game overall because it would bring the challenge back to the Survivor side. When Survivors have to resort to trolling to get their fun, it's because they are too powerful for the Killer to reasonably do anything against.
That may be so but in many people's opinion the game is terrible for survivors, making the killer batter WOULD be better for how you want to play that is all, it does not mean it is better for the overall game and the vast majority of players, this is what I mean about an agenda, you think your way is infallable by how you write, its fine to have an opinion but that shouldn't be pushed to an extent where the game is junk if they do not do it.
More challenge is always better for any video game. If a game has no challenge then players have no incentive to keep playing.
I think some killers need buffs, I think some maps need reworked, I think some perks need reworked and some removed but I dont go hating on the forums and calling a game I like junk if they dont do it, thats just childish, I give my feedback and if they see it and like it then so be it.
I never called the game junk. I said the balance is crap, the game itself is still an enjoyable experience for the most part. It is possible to want both for a video game.
weirdkid5 said:
Except games like Overwatch, Siege and Warframe, which greatly reward returning players with cosmetics, proper ranking systems, and new skins that warrant loot box purchases, daily login bonuses etc.. This is how Overwatch makes most of its money, not through new purchases. Playing doesn't give them money, I stopped giving money to BHVR back when Clown was released. Warframe ONLY makes money through Platinum purchases, and you can earn Platinum in-game without buying it. This is because Digital Extremes prioritizes player feedback over making money, and because of this, they are HUGELY successful, the most successful free-to-play ever made.
The vast majority disagree with me because the vast majority can't be bothered to actually use some damn skill in this game, and BHVR enables that behavior with their constant negligence of SWF and genrush.
You cannot compare those games to DBD, those games have set powers roles and are equal pair ups, they also have matchmaking to seperate the skill levels, warframe is F2P, they sell items and you gain them in game again much like DBD just a different bussiness model, apart from licensed killers you can earn every other one via play time, you also have the shirne which for the most part has rubbish on it but it still allows players to get things for free by playing.
All of these aspects can be added into DbD as well. Killers already have set powers, the game just needs better matchmaking and to make the 4 Survivors equal to the 1 Killer rather than having each Survivor be equal to him.
weirdkid5 said:
I think it says that you have to visually reaffirm the things you believe in because you are delusional.
I think you may be talking about yourself with that statement, dellussional to the degree where you think your opinion is THE only one that counts, the devs have made a game which blew away every expectation they had, people like the game, people play the game, they are making goodmoney off the game and guess what, they make it how they want too and so far their decision have been correct as it has worked, so the highly vocal minorities such as yourself mean very little in the grand scheme of things, ponder that the next time you write the same things over and over as its akin to a child not getting their way and thinking crying till they do will work.
I never said mine was the only one that counts, but it's the only one that counts for ME, because these are the things I want in the game. This has nothing to do with an "agenda," you are just laying down a typically negative term in order to downplay my arguments. If they are making good money off the game, they wouldn't need to sell themselves to a Chinese monetization company. Players are actually beginning to rise because of all the balancing that has been done in favor of Killers, bringing back old Killer players as well as old Survivor players. This is why the game's population has been increasing slowly since June of 2018, because the devs are (for the most part) are nerfing Survivors and buffing Killers.
So, it's already begun. I'm not sure why you act like it'll kill the game when it's making the game grow.
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Gantz isn't the first to do this trope either.
DbD is more inspired by Lovecraftian tale than anime.
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@Vietfox said:
Maybe the speed penalty for working on a gen with someone else? You know, you got the speed boost from PT but also the default gen speed penalty.Prove Thyself negates the penalty. This is what he's talking about.
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Hmm, I'm actually not sure how much this really affects the rush.
Normally you have 3 Survivors repairing, and 1 being chased. If all 3 Survivors do all 5 gens solo, they'll have them done in 160 seconds.
Now, let's say 2 of them work together, one solo's and the other is still being chased. The other 2 will be able to get 2 gens done in 80 seconds, whereas the last guy gets 1 done, making for 3 gens in 80 seconds, just like before.
Now, the only way you would be able to reduce time after this is to coordinate the 3 Survivors to bang out the last 2 gens all together, making it about 153 seconds for all gen repairs. If they don't work together, then the last gen still takes 80 seconds to complete solo making 160 seconds overall still.
And this doesn't include time running around finding the gen. In the end, Prove Thyself may POSSIBLY make a difference, but you really have to make sure you all work together and stay together. If you have 3 Survivors all stick together for the gens, I think the total time for all 5 gens could be reduced to about 133 seconds. This could be interesting.
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Looks like the Survivor helping you is injured? He could have a debuff from the Killer's attack.
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@IamFran said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@Poweas said:
Of course your mad because of 5%. Grow a pair and calm down dude. It's not the end of the world.Bro a perk that 80% of Survivors pick does not need any kind of buff.
If this were any other game, SC would be nerfed into the dust for having such an absurdly high pick-rate. Such a high pick-rate indicates the perk is way too powerful.
It's picked by 80% because the only other way to self heal is using a medkit which is spent very quickly and without a medkit the only way to replenish is being healing by others. When playing solo it's mandatory and when playing with friends it's very recommended because without picking it sometimes you or a mate must travel more than half map and in a game in which the time it's so important that's awful.
I seem to have no problems playing the game solo and never using Self-Care. I think I've used that perk maybe one time and felt like I needed to take a shower afterwards.
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@Swiftblade131 said:
All this talk...So is it useful or not?
Actually, after this edit, the implications of Prove Thyself are huge.
Now, if everyone solos, it takes about 160 seconds to do all 5 gens if I'm not mistaken. Working with teammates isn't going to make that number go down, it's going to actually make it rise, unless I think 3 or 4 Survivors are banging out all the gens together. If my estimations are correct, you could do all 5 gens if you have 3 people working together in about 110 seconds or so.
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The last Survivor is still in the game. They made it so you can't see the Killer's perks anymore until the game is completely over, that way SWF can't relay which perks the Killer has.
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@Delfador said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@Poweas said:
Of course your mad because of 5%. Grow a pair and calm down dude. It's not the end of the world.Bro a perk that 80% of Survivors pick does not need any kind of buff.
If this were any other game, SC would be nerfed into the dust for having such an absurdly high pick-rate. Such a high pick-rate indicates the perk is way too powerful.
I am really not sure about this.
As a killer, I know for a fact that, BBQ or ruin is not that useful that survivors make them out to be. The problem is that I just can't play without these 2 perks and I think most killers feel in the same way.
I think that survivors feel in the same way for the self care. Bond is far superior to self care but instead of using it, survivors choose to use self care.
DS is very powerful and OP and I wholeheartedly accept this but in my both killer and survivor games, only 1 or maybe 2 people use it.
High usage percentages does not mean much in this game imo.
Both BBQ and Ruin are the most high picked Killer perks because of the reason that Killers are pretty much forced to use one or the other if they want to be competitive.
Bond is useless in a game where 70% of people use SWF and are in voice chat, this is why no one uses it and opts to use Self-Care instead.
DS also has an extremely high pick-rate, I think it was around 65% or so. High percentage means a lot. It means a lot of Survivors use these perks as crutches for their gameplay. The fact Survivors can go against Killers like ScottJund and use no perks, and still force him to sweat in order to barely get 2 kills means that Survivors are already powerful enough regardless of perks. Anything else is either adding salt to the wound or using perks as bandaids to hide lack of skill.
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@Poweas said:
Of course your mad because of 5%. Grow a pair and calm down dude. It's not the end of the world.Bro a perk that 80% of Survivors pick does not need any kind of buff.
If this were any other game, SC would be nerfed into the dust for having such an absurdly high pick-rate. Such a high pick-rate indicates the perk is way too powerful.
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@twistedmonkey said:
weirdkid5 said:Killers being OP isn't what I want at all, don't conflate that. It isn't the balance's fault that, even with top level Killers, top level Survivors can still roflstomp them. Making the Killers better wouldn't make them OP, it would make the game more fair.
It would only make the game fair for the 1-5% can't you see that? So for the vast majority it would make them OP.
Killers make up about 20% of the population, so your percentages are way off. Given the game is a 4v1, that means 80% are Survivors and 20% are Killers. People need to realize that not each Survivor should be equal to the Killer.
weirdkid5 said:
You are using some ass backwards logic right here man, I'm just gonna say it. The reason forums exist is to give feedback and opinions, if you don't like that then you probably need to stop going to forums. You telling me this is being a corporate apologist and I don't deal with those kinds of people. You are exerting your own opinion right now on the forums, making yourself a hypocrite. You are complaining about people complaining, man that's pretty low.
Yes to give feedback but once you go over a certain point you are pushing an agenda, constructive critisism is fine but to keep saying the same thing over and over goes way past that, maybe you should chill and think about why you post the same things over and over, survivor OP killers need buffs!, now thats some far flung rubbish, sorry but a corporate apologist lol, sorry I am simply stating facts which you dont seem to want to hear, I am not stating an opinion by saying its the devs game that is a simple fact, they can chose to listen or not but by posting the same thing over and over about how you personally think the game should be does not change the devs vision, you obvisouly have major issues with the game while saying you love it so who is the hypocrite? I am not staing an opion I am asking why you feel the need to push an agenda? so I ask again why do you think that you know better than the devs of a highly succesful game?
Pushing an agenda? You mean like the corporate agenda you keep pushing? The "it makes the cash so keep doing it" agenda? Please. I can have issues with something and still love it. The two are not mutually exclusive and the fact you can't grasp this concept baffles me. Push an agenda? I'm just giving feedback bro. You're taking what I'm saying super out of proportion. It doesn't matter to me what the rest of the community wants, this is why we have opinions and forums, for everyone to give their opinion. And in my opinion, the game is extremely unfun for most Killer players. Funny you mention saying the same thing over and over again.
weirdkid5 said:
Small percentage of complainers? That's why their stocks are taking a nosedive right? It goes beyond them "just making money" when people's livlihoods are being ruined, employees being let go because they are trying to cut costs, due to not catering to players opinions anymore. The fact you make this just about money makes me believe I'm talking to a BHVR secondary account right now.
Yes a small percentage, any forum has a small percentage of complainers compared to those who play its common knowlegde, you yourself have to realise you are in the minority,do you know they lost a lawsuit a week or so ago and closed a game down? Deathgarden which is in a really bad state, who is to say any of that is due to DBD? it is their saving grace and a huge revenue of cashflow hence buying it for 16million last year, they are doing well enough to have a chinese company invest in them in October, so do you personally know they cut staff on the DBD team? I'd wager they did not it was for the other less successful games which is what companies do as one product cant sustain everything else indefinately its economics 101.
Doing well enough to have a Chinese company invest in them? If a company has to get bought by a Chinese company, usually they are tanking, not because they are successful. These companies buy out low costs studios and churn them out for maximum profit. They need to be bought by a Chinese company because they are likely broke from breaking from Starbreeze and are unable to make up the loss with the in-game purchases.
And one product can sustain indefinitely, or at least an extremely long time. Look at TF2, a game that came out over a decade ago and still has over 100k active players, and still gains more every day. This is because the game eventually went community based, they listened to feedback, put in community weapons, requests, and maps, and it made the game flourish.
weirdkid5 said:
No, I'm not enjoying as much because the game is too easy. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'll play it as much as I want. The game has clearly become something different overtime, with the devs catering to the lowest common denominator in order to cash in.
Ultimately, whether this game dies or not isn't my point. My point is that I will continue to speak on this junk regardless if it will ever be changed, so I'd advise just ignoring me if you don't like my posts.
Well thats on you, its a choice you make to play as it is for everyone but you obviously are burned out and maybe you are in the 1-5% of players, games do become easier over time but that not down to just balance, its down to the individuals you are playing and how easy it is to get into your rank bracket, is it easy or are you simply better than most? catering to your personal needs would then break the game for the majority, do you thin kthat is right? yes they could seperate the skill levels but what if like the 20-16 zone people then complain they cant find games? or they play the same people over and over is that fun? they concentrate on the MAJORITY of players, you may not like it but any game such as this will do the same where all the players are lumped into one place.
Again, Killers make up 20% of the population and there are still a good number of Survivor players that agree with me. I can direct you to a few Discord groups for a couple hundred of them. I have no issues facing the same people over and over as long as my matches don't take 20 minutes to find. I play Overwatch and face the same people plenty of times, this is an irrelevant "issue" for me. The ranking system and balance are two completely separate issues. The ranking system will always be flawed if the balance is flawed. You can't just neglect 20% of your playerbase. The only reason Killers are still in this game is because most Survivors are incapable of playing without perks like DS and SC (this is a fact based on BHVR stats, 80% of Survivors use SC). If the game was properly balanced, SC would get nerfed from pickrate alone.
weirdkid5 said:
It's pretty irrelevant how many long in
that day, because at any given time there is a stagnant number of
players that is way lower than their "5 million purchased" copies. A
brand new update just came out and a new event is on the horizon, so
numbers are reasonably going to rise.Why is irrelevant? because it debunks your 10k a day false stat? look at every game out there and see how many players they sustain, even the biggest games lose most of thier players as many dont stick around for hundreds of hours, they just had the largest aount of peak players ever at 63k a couple of months back, the game has been growing steadily and like any new content always does this, take Fortnite they release events all the time to keep things fresh do you think DBD should be any differrent? CS:GO peaked at 620k but has 20-50million buyers I think thats all that needs to be said on that.
Except it doesn't debunk anything, because many of these numbers are already conflated. The 63k peak was during a month that had a FREE WEEKEND, so obviously many players are going to log in. Also copies that were sold for free on either PS4 or Xbox One count towards the 5 million figure. Fortnite releases new content, but also continuously gains new players, and is a free game. DbD, outside of free events or seasonal events, has a hard time maintaining a playerbase beyond 10-15k. This is why they churn out so many events now, to artificially pad playtime and incentives players to not miss out on exclusive content.
weirdkid5 said:
This is the most dismissive and pointless thing you can say. I guess you don't understand the concept of consumerism, because as a consumer of the product, I have the right to give my feedback and it's up to the devs if they wish to listen to it or not. And guess what? That is literally why the forums exist mate. If your mentality was the prevalent one, then Killers wouldn't be slowly getting buffed as this new update does and forums wouldn't exist at all. But unfortunately, since the forums DO exist, that means BHVR at least wants some kind of feedback.
Overall, they can keep gaining new players if they wish, but retaining players would allow them to make even more money. See, if you knew anything about business, you'd know that if you make compromises among your consumer base, you retain customers, bring back old ones, and still attract new ones. But BHVR would rather just maintain the status quo.
Actually it is not when an agenda is being pushed, you are by no means trying to make the game better for the majority but for yourself which is wrong, while I have pushed for killer buffs myself I do it to make certain ones have a fairer chance to balance them agaisnt the majoirty of the playerbase, if you cant handle how it is thats on you but dont think you have the moral high ground in any debate when your personal agenda is more important than the majority of players.
This is the point of forums, to give your personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, the game is terrible for Killers. Making the Killers better WOULD be better for the game overall because it would bring the challenge back to the Survivor side. When Survivors have to resort to trolling to get their fun, it's because they are too powerful for the Killer to reasonably do anything against.
Again most games will go for new and exisiting players, exisiting ones do not bring in the revenue of the puschases so balance is between them all in a game such as DBD, they will never get it perfect but to be so agry at them, calling the game junk goes beyond and shows more personal issues maybe underlying, its a game get over it, in the grand scheme of things there are thousands of others the only way to show a company they are wrong is to not play or purchase anything which seems you are failing to do by playing at least and the vast majority also disagree with your points as they play and enjoy keeping the growth the game has had.
Except games like Overwatch, Siege and Warframe, which greatly reward returning players with cosmetics, proper ranking systems, and new skins that warrant loot box purchases, daily login bonuses etc.. This is how Overwatch makes most of its money, not through new purchases. Playing doesn't give them money, I stopped giving money to BHVR back when Clown was released. Warframe ONLY makes money through Platinum purchases, and you can earn Platinum in-game without buying it. This is because Digital Extremes prioritizes player feedback over making money, and because of this, they are HUGELY successful, the most successful free-to-play ever made.
The vast majority disagree with me because the vast majority can't be bothered to actually use some damn skill in this game, and BHVR enables that behavior with their constant negligence of SWF and genrush.
weirdkid5 said:
You just won the award for the most obvious and pointless comment anyone has ever said. Hope you're proud of yourself.
Yes it is such a simple and obvious concept but everything you write with seems to say you dont grasp it, what does that say about yourself?
I think it says that you have to visually reaffirm the things you believe in because you are delusional.
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It's the only way Survivors can get fun out of this game once you hit a certain skill level.
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@twistedmonkey said:
@weirdkid5Balancing a game such as this over the top 1% even 5% does not work, it only works when you permanently seperate different skill lvls which this game does not and seems to not be anywhere in the devs future plans.
Part of my main issue, thanks for connecting the dots.
If you balanced it on those players then killers would be op for the rest making the game less fun and more try hard competative and like I said that doesn't seem to be what the devs want.
Killers being OP isn't what I want at all, don't conflate that. It isn't the balance's fault that, even with top level Killers, top level Survivors can still roflstomp them. Making the Killers better wouldn't make them OP, it would make the game more fair.
If you are not enjoying the journey why do you still play? I don't enjoy many games so I don't play, I also don't go to their forums and think I know better, constantly complain when they are successful with what they have, its a simple concept to grasp that it's not my game designed for myself.
You are using some ass backwards logic right here man, I'm just gonna say it. The reason forums exist is to give feedback and opinions, if you don't like that then you probably need to stop going to forums. You telling me this is being a corporate apologist and I don't deal with those kinds of people. You are exerting your own opinion right now on the forums, making yourself a hypocrite. You are complaining about people complaining, man that's pretty low.
You can say what you like about the big players but they still make a ######### ton of money, it's a business nothing more and the goal is to make a game the majority like not what the small percentage of complainers want.
Small percentage of complainers? That's why their stocks are taking a nosedive right? It goes beyond them "just making money" when people's livlihoods are being ruined, employees being let go because they are trying to cut costs, due to not catering to players opinions anymore. The fact you make this just about money makes me believe I'm talking to a BHVR secondary account right now.
I think you like the concept of DBD and are just upset your not enjoying it as much anymore, you may possibly be burned out or as it happens frequently have just done your time and maybe need to think about moving onto another game.
No, I'm not enjoying as much because the game is too easy. This is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'll play it as much as I want. The game has clearly become something different overtime, with the devs catering to the lowest common denominator in order to cash in.
Ultimately, whether this game dies or not isn't my point. My point is that I will continue to speak on this junk regardless if it will ever be changed, so I'd advise just ignoring me if you don't like my posts.
Yes the vast majority, if only 10k players played it there wouldn't be a daily peak of over 20k and that's a peak number not how many players have actually logged in that day.
It's pretty irrelevant how many long in that day, because at any given time there is a stagnant number of players that is way lower than their "5 million purchased" copies. A brand new update just came out and a new event is on the horizon, so numbers are reasonably going to rise.
If some players think they know better, prove the devs wrong, group together and make a game to compete but please don't try to tell a successful company with a successful product because from a personal standpoint you think they are doing it wrong as that's highly laughable.
This is the most dismissive and pointless thing you can say. I guess you don't understand the concept of consumerism, because as a consumer of the product, I have the right to give my feedback and it's up to the devs if they wish to listen to it or not. And guess what? That is literally why the forums exist mate. If your mentality was the prevalent one, then Killers wouldn't be slowly getting buffed as this new update does and forums wouldn't exist at all. But unfortunately, since the forums DO exist, that means BHVR at least wants some kind of feedback.
Overall, they can keep gaining new players if they wish, but retaining players would allow them to make even more money. See, if you knew anything about business, you'd know that if you make compromises among your consumer base, you retain customers, bring back old ones, and still attract new ones. But BHVR would rather just maintain the status quo.
It's a game play if you enjoy it or don't, it's a choice and not everyone likes everything hence how saturated the market is.
You just won the award for the most obvious and pointless comment anyone has ever said. Hope you're proud of yourself.
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I'd wait for the first Killer to approach me and then I would just proceed to empty my bowels all over the nearest tree in an attempt to gross the Killer out so I can just walk out.
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@TAG said:
I think this an important thing that needs to me emphasized. Just for clarification, I'm a bad player and am not gonna be able to offer much (if any) input on whether the super optimized SWF team is too unbeatable or w/e. Just a majority of players is not capable of taking advantage of something potentially unbalanced to its fullest extent does not mean that the potentially unbalanced thing should not be looked at. If it is a strategy is genuinely unbalanced, I don't think the difficulty of said strategy or the frequency of said strategy should be able to singlehandedly prevent balancing things to keep things in better check.Good example from outside of DBD: Krark-Clan Ironworks from Magic: The Gathering. A centerpiece to a deck in the Modern format that was apparently VERY difficult to pilot well and as a result wasn't exactly everywhere in the metagame. But in the hands of people who were able to pilot it properly, the KCI deck put up extremely good results and as a result was over time dominating the competitive field despite apparently being relatively tame as far as actual presence in numbers.
Rather than just deciding that things were fine because its difficulty resulted in limited numbers of people playing it, the people behind the card game looked at its viability over a lengthy period of time to see just how balanced it was and how potentially detrimental it was to the game. The end result was them determining that despite being not too big in presence, the success rate it had at the higher levels of play far eclipsed the competition with no sign of that stopping anytime soon. And as such, they made the announcement yesterday that the card in question was banned from the format.
Maybe super optimized SWF teams are OP, maybe not. Again, not good enough to really offer much on that debate. The main thing I can say is that while it can certainly be a factor, I don't think the small presence of something potentially overpowered should alone be enough reason to dismiss it as a non-issue, and I think taking care of a problem (assuming it is deemed a problem) while it is not widespread is a valid way to go about things.
This was very concisely put. I agree 100%
@twistedmonkey said:
The problem with a lot of people in this thread is they seem to deem what they want is how the game should be.That's the point of forums, for feedback and ideas.
The emblem system is a clear example of what the devs envisage, not competative play, not easy kills or easy escapes but an engaging chase, hide, evade and objective game where players have fun.
I don't have fun with the current system though. If you wanna talk about vision, this game originally had the vision of only solo-players, which is one of the many reasons I bought the game Day 1. It has drastically changed from what I initially paid for.
Fun of course being subjective but the fun should be in the journey not the end result or you miss out on the majority of the whole experience.
The journey is boring though. Running around in circles and holding M1 is not engaging gameplay in the slightest for anyone with 600+ hours. This is why people end up resorting to troll tactics.
This video shows one extreme which is not what the devs want but on the flip side they also don't want survivors to be downed and all killed in 4 mins which can also happen, anyone can post a video showing an extreme but the average normal game is not this and these types of players don't get much BP in the end and the game is about BP more than anything else with the huge grind that it is.
Survivors only go down and all die in 4 mins if they are terrible at the game. I can show you videos of me doing this myself, my fastest game ended in 2:30 as Billy. But, that was because the Survivors made stupid decisions.
The game shouldn't be about BP, this is one of the major issues of the game. Many players simply farm.
There is no point debating what you personally want the game to be, if you are not happy why do you play and why not put all the energy you use to complain to make you own game?
Because I paid for the game and the forums exist, therefore I have the right to say what I dislike about the game and what I would prefer to be in the game. Oh, and I am planning to get involved in the industry already once I get my degree, so no worries there mate.
DBD is very successful and has been growing so that says the vast majority enjoy it, it is also common knowledge the majority of players dont visit the forums often as they are happy enough and don't need to complain.
The vast majority? You do realize the game has probably over 100,000 unique players on Steam alone, but unless an event is currently present, only about 10k people play the game? A new event is rising soon, so more players are returning. "Vast majority," the vast majority of players are Survivors, not Killers. So obviously, as long as the game is good for Survivors, the game is good for business.
So ask yourself why the devs should listen to what you say and not keep going in the direction they are if it is working from a business standpoint.
Because integrity is more important than business when it comes to video games, just look at EA, Activision, Blizzard, and Bethesda, all of whom are burning ever so quickly because the prioritize making cash over actually making decent video games. It works for a while, but people eventually catch on to your bullshit.
This game has just enough troll value to attract people that aren't even old enough to play the game based on ratings. I imagine this is the game kids flock to when they see they suck at building in Fortnite.
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@Slayer said:
@chefdave12118 said:
What is mlg software, and what does it do and how do I get it (if it's allowed)?You can block lobbies you dont want to connect to
It's gonna be irrelevant once dedicated servers come along anyway.
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My list only has 3 tiers.
Viable: Nurse, Billy, Huntress
Viable if played well: Clown
######### tier: everyone else
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@Vietfox said:
@weirdkid5 said:@ScottJund said:
weirdkid5 said:
@ScottJund I question whether or not you would have been able to pip if the Emblems were in place at the time, as this was still during the Bloodpoint ranking system. You likely would have only saftey'd under current Emblem rules.
Jesus how are you this misinformed on EVERYTHING. It was even harder for killer to pip during the patch those games took place
Holy ######### I forgot the terrible Victory Cube even existed smh. I removed that ######### from my brain is was so terrible lmao (I think I need to put down this green stuff I got besides me right now).
Lol looks like @ScottJund demolished you. I honestly didn't say anything because i never watched that match so i assumed you were telling the truth.
Nah I just legit forgot about Victory Cube being a thing, I just kinda assumed it was still Bloodpoint based. I'll hold that L tho.
Regardless, this doesn't change the fact he likely only would have safety pipped in the current form of the Emblems.
Either way, as I stated before, him pipping isn't a part of my point, as the games Ranking system fluctuates greatly with time. The point overall is how much he has to sweat just to achieve what he did.
If you have to be one of the best Killers using a pretty high level loadout just to go 2-2 against Survivors that are intentionally handicapping themselves, then there is a problem with the balance.
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@Slayer said:
@weirdkid5 said:
MLGA is a third-party software so if it bugs up your game that isn't surprising.Id rather have that than this game s matchmaking bugs
Matchmaking bugs?
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@PiiFree said:
@weirdkid5 said:
All this does is further prove that SWF is busted, which you did originally say. However, this strategy is unviable if you are not running in a full 4-stack.Generally most of the time campers are going to get at least one kill, and that's cause Survivors are just stupid.
2x SWF is enough. You don't need to know the hooked guy and the guy at the gate is irrelevant aswell. The only important part is the coordination between the unhooker and the guy that pops the last gen. The guy that gets unhooked should be able to escape because of Borrowed Time and either me or my buddy will get the Adrenaline buff to run away once they're downed.
If we implement such a thing as ingame voice communication, this would be very easy to pull even with 4 randoms.
Mark this up as another reason why this game's balance will never be fixed.
BHVR has no clue what they are doing.
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MLGA is a third-party software so if it bugs up your game that isn't surprising.
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@PiiFree said:
@weirdkid5 said:
You are still facing Killers who don't know how to counter this, and you yourself are explaining it incorrectly or misinterpreting what I'm saying."Make sure the last guy that goes for the last unhook has adrenaline" Bro that only works for the guy who gets OFF of the hook. You do realize that at least one of you is still going to die right? BT does not activate for the savior anymore, meaning even if you activate BT and Adrenaline on the guy on the hook, YOU are going on the hook because he can hit you twice by the time you unhook the guy, and BT isn't going to save you from that second hit.
The first time you get hit, it cancels your first save attempt, Killer wipes his blade and you save your friend. You get hit again because BT and Adrenaline does not work on the guy who does the saving.
This strat would not work on any Killer that knows what you're trying to do. BT and Adrenaline will save the guy you unhook after the gates are powered, but what do you do for the guy who dies before the gens are done? If you guys just keep swapping out, you will die much faster. And again, since BT doesn't protect the savior, how exactly do you plan to get yourself out after you save the guy who DOES have Adrenaline?
Oh wait, you can't because Adrenaline doesn't work on full health Survivors and BT doesn't work on the savior. So Camping always guarantees at least 1 Kill.
I think you did not understand what I meant.
It's usually me going for the last unhook so this is what's happening:
My buddy is at the 99% gen, the other one is waiting at the exit.
I approach the hook, take a hit (injured), unhook (prog the unhooked guys BT), I get downed again (and the Killer is stuck in "hit reload animation" and at that point they finish the last gen. I get back up again, get a speed boost, run to the (by now open) gate while the others (fully healed now thanks to Adrenaline) can safely take a hit / bodyblock the Killer if the gate is further away.
There is NOTHING they can do unless they're oneshot Killers. In that case we go for the save as 2 guys while one camps the 99% gen. One gets downed, other guy unhooks and depending on the Killers action someone else gets downed aswell and THEN we prog the last gen OR he's going to pick the first guy up, in that case we prog the last gen immediately. It's not hard with voice communication.
All this does is further prove that SWF is busted, which you did originally say. However, this strategy is unviable if you are not running in a full 4-stack.
Generally most of the time campers are going to get at least one kill, and that's cause Survivors are just stupid.
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@ToxicFengM1n said:
@PiiFree said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believeDo you know what gen rush means? You're not pointlessly looking for chases, you're doing the gens and gtfo. Any sort of interaction that's not totally required is a waste of time and hurts the gen rush.
One person at a time keeps the Killer busy while the rest rushes the gens. You don't have time to fill up the Chaser points for everyone and don't even get me started with Benevolent. When there's only 1 hook done you won't get ######### in that emblem either.
Gen rush won't make you pip as Survivor and according to your logic, that means it's NOT doing the objective.
Deal with it.
yeah, but not always will you be on a gen due to a killer, ######### is this logic you think I follow I said that because the objective is to kill all survivors, not a singular survivor, the survivors objective is do gens and gtfo
Ok, and if a Killer is always on you then you cannot complete gens in order to get the pip.
Genrush strategy is the worst strategy for Survivors to pip, just like Camping is the worst for Killers to pip.
And no, a Killer's goal is to Kill at least 2 Survivors as intended by the devs.
Doing all the gens asap and getting out doesn't get you a pip if you were never chased or no one ever got hooked because you finished the game before the Killer could down anyone.
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@PiiFree said:
@weirdkid5 said:
I mean if a Killer just stares at the guy on the hook, and doesn't move unless someone attempts a save, then you aren't really going to get the guy off the hook even with BT. Even if you do, you're going on the hook next because BT doesn't work that way anymore and you're gonna get slapped twice before you even get control of your guy back.Which is exactly what makes you win matches.
You trade hooks to win time and make sure that the guy that goes for the last unhook has Adrenaline. You get hit, unhook (BT activates), you get downed, last gen pops and you get the speed buff and escape.
It's not that hard, we do that all the time in our SWF. We use 4x Adrenaline so the unhooked guy even gets fully healed on top of BT. The last gen is our ticket to a free escape at that point, the Killer has 20 seconds to get the guy down again or we'll escape, which is very unlikely to happen because we'll be ready to bodyblock once the gates are open. Only NOED can counter this, which is also why many players hate it.
That's the flaw of SWF that many Survivor mains refuse to admit.
You are still facing Killers who don't know how to counter this, and you yourself are explaining it incorrectly or misinterpreting what I'm saying.
"Make sure the last guy that goes for the last unhook has adrenaline" Bro that only works for the guy who gets OFF of the hook. You do realize that at least one of you is still going to die right? BT does not activate for the savior anymore, meaning even if you activate BT and Adrenaline on the guy on the hook, YOU are going on the hook because he can hit you twice by the time you unhook the guy, and BT isn't going to save you from that second hit.
The first time you get hit, it cancels your first save attempt, Killer wipes his blade and you save your friend. You get hit again because BT and Adrenaline does not work on the guy who does the saving.
This strat would not work on any Killer that knows what you're trying to do. BT and Adrenaline will save the guy you unhook after the gates are powered, but what do you do for the guy who dies before the gens are done? If you guys just keep swapping out, you will die much faster. And again, since BT doesn't protect the savior, how exactly do you plan to get yourself out after you save the guy who DOES have Adrenaline?
Oh wait, you can't because Adrenaline doesn't work on full health Survivors and BT doesn't work on the savior. So Camping always guarantees at least 1 Kill.
The only way this works is if you time the save so when you go down after saving the guy, Adrenaline activates so both players can escape. But that requires an insane amount of timing in order to pull off, as even a second off and someone is getting sacrificed. If this level of coordination is achieved, then the Survivors earned it. But this is such a tight scenario that it's pretty much unviable unless you run a 4 stack SWF squad.
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@ToxicFengM1n said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with itCamping is doing the objective, deal with it.
@weirdkid5 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with itCamping is doing the objective, deal with it.
Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose
Pips are irrelevant for someone that just wants to Kill or has already hit Rank 1. This goes for both Survivors and Killers.
If you wanna go that route, genrushing is damaging to your emblems too, because if you finish the game too fast you won't have time to earn Benevolence or Evader.
Players enter in and out of the chase when doing generators unless the killers afk or is boosted, really, this is a fact too, I have never entered a match where I don't get into a chase, it just shows that either you are doing gens and playing hide and seek with the killer, and like I said, they are afk or boosted, also wanting to stay rank 1 requires pips I believe
Yeah and I have also gone through and Survived a match without pipping despite doing 2 gens and never getting into a single chase. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to find the Killer to get into a chase to make up the Emblems I'm not earning because the game goes too fast, I don't even need to be sneaky if someone is just looping the Killer. If no one ever gets hooked, then you never get Benevolence either.
Uh, genrush is exactly that, doing gens and ignoring the Killer. Doing this gets you no Chaser, as chasing wastes time and thus you aren't genrushing if you are doing a chase. And no, you can still safety pip and maintain a Rank 1 status homie.
My earning of an Emblem should not be dependent on if the Killer is good or not.
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@ToxicFengM1n said:
@weirdkid5 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with itCamping is doing the objective, deal with it.
@weirdkid5 said:
@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with itCamping is doing the objective, deal with it.
Camping damages one of your emblems so it is not objective and if survivors know your camping you will lose
Pips are irrelevant for someone that just wants to Kill or has already hit Rank 1. This goes for both Survivors and Killers.
If you wanna go that route, genrushing is damaging to your emblems too, because if you finish the game too fast you won't have time to earn Benevolence or Evader.
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@ToxicFengM1n said:
Before this one gets closed I have a question, genrush is doing the objective deal with itCamping is doing the objective, deal with it.
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@OrionsFury4789 said:
weirdkid5 said:@OrionsFury4789 said:
weirdkid5 said:
@powerbats said: @weirdkid5 said: @ForeheadSurviors said: Yeah ok I mean it is technically a legit strat, it just isn't viable. Camping aside, it still only takes 160 seconds to repair all 5 gens with proper coordination
True and if people stopped rewarding it so much killers would stop doing it except for the dedicated ones that just want to watch the world burn.
I do wonder how much camping skewers the survival statistics at each rank same as dc's on both sides along with crashes. If people would stop going after camped hooks, the stats would show the game is heavily stacked against Killers. Along with the dc's and crashes, I got no doubt the Kill stats would be a lot more accurate. Choosing to go save a camped Survivor shouldn't be taken into consideration for balance, as that is a personal choice of the Survivor, optimal strategy is to just repair and escape instead of risking more loss to the Benevolent Emblem. If people simply left the Survivor, the kill rates would plummet. There's always that one dude who tries to save against campers (usually that's me, but I don't blindly run in there like some do).
You're wrong , because at higher ranks it's not gonna go down the way it does in lower ranks, survivors will either do all the gens , or bait you and then BT save their buddy , you end up with nobody at that point. Anytime it's a leatherface, wraith , or pig camping you know to just gen rush and not be a hero because LF can take out multiple people and the other two can cancel BT with their already built in mechanics and no insidious included
A Killer that is dedicated to camping, i.e. one that refuses to leave 5 feet away from the hook, is impossible to save against. I'm sorry, but if the Killer wants the guy on hook dead, he's dead. You can't BT bait anymore without trading yourself out on the hook, and this goes for every single Killer.
If the Killer wants someone to die on the hook, it's 100% going to happen as long as he isn't mentally inept.
Well I guess that's where we disagree but that's fine we're both entitled to our opinions , at higher ranks the games I'm in the camped survivor gets away from it majority of the time unless it's those three killers is why I've formed that opinion but I'm on PS4 so I don't know if that really makes a difference or not
I mean if a Killer just stares at the guy on the hook, and doesn't move unless someone attempts a save, then you aren't really going to get the guy off the hook even with BT. Even if you do, you're going on the hook next because BT doesn't work that way anymore and you're gonna get slapped twice before you even get control of your guy back.
