kyogul
kyogul
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I think the proper definition of genrushing is survivors abandoning their teammates to do generators instead.
If there are two survivors on a hook at once and two that are not (and none of the non-hooked in chase), instead of saving their teammates they sit on generators instead.
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@RepliCant said:
What's worse is that people like SupaAlf and Xeno who are in the "competitive" scene all use this exploit too lol, so much for competitive integrity
Considering they're going against all PC players who can do the same thing, it's not really an issue
It then becomes a matter of preference of if you want to use stretched res or not.
I personally don't like the native FOV on either side, killer or survivor. It's too zoomed in and gives me a migraine after a few games. I use 1610x1440 res when playing the game in general. I don't get meaningful benefits on either side, especially for killer, but you'd still have people bitching about stretched res even when you gain almost no benefit.
On top of that, it is a performance boost as well. Considering how much this game will make even my 1080 ti stutter I will take as much as I can get in terms of fps stability tricks.
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But DBD isn't a very popular game, they say
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Playing in SWF makes playing survivor tolerable. I've avoided playing survivor for about a month or two now because I no longer play with the friends who introduced me to this game and when I play solo queue it makes me never want to play survivor again.
Constantly getting dumb teammates or being tunnelled out the game. Even with meta perks solo queue is insufferable.
The only time I enjoyed playing survivor was in a SWF. Not because it was easier but because of quality control.
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@Schmierbach said:
Dead Hard isn't really a problem for good killers. At least not for me. Idk.
There are tonnes of veterans and pros at this game who also have a similar issue with Dead Hard. You're not the standard here, don't think you're special.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
Brushing aside the moot point on how easy it is to use dead hard, which is misleading, the difficulty of using DH comes in judging when to use it, not actually pressing the button, nobody's telling you to bait out a DH for distance, and if they are, you need to block that psycho as soon as possible. You can bait out a DH that is used to evade a swing. That's the contention.
When used at a loop, nobody's saying to bait one out (at high ranks anyways, low ranks DH the moment they hear the terror radius). At that point, it's just a loop extender. If used responsibly, meaning that you get optimal usage out of it, it'll bring value. However, if the DH will overshoot the target, which is usually a window or a pallet, it becomes useless, even detrimental, as it can force a medium vault.
But it still does have more usage than balanced landing and the such. That's because, in total, DH will give you less gained ground than those perks. The sprintburst-type exhaustion perks help you get to a loop, which is why they need to cover more ground. DH is meant to extend a loop as a "Hail Mary" of sorts. As such, you still need to know how to loop, and you need to be in an optimal setup, although good positioning will help you get the most out of any given situation.
The other thing is that this complaint of "no setup, all reward" applies to a lot of killer powers and survivor perks. That's the point; they enhance your skill. Clown's bottles are free slowdowns. Blight's power is quickly closing distance. The rest of the exhaustion perks are no different; they gain ground to no cost. Dead hard isn't any different.
But what it is, is that when it works, it's much more apparent. When a baby Meg sprintbursts to a loop, and that extra distance preemptively allows her to loop more times than she would have been able to without, it's not obvious and in your face. When a DH comes in at the last second, it's the same effect, albeit weaker as the total distance gained vs. what you would have gotten otherwise is smaller, but its effects are much more observable. With the sprintburst, you won't think about how that sprintburst just gave her that extra loop. But with DH, it's happening in your face, in real time. It gives off the appearance, but not necessarily the effect, of being ridiculously strong.
Ultimately, DH isn't an awful perk just because it feels cheap by helping you out. Botany knowledge doesn't even need a key input, but those quick heals will give you a reward far greater than DH. Ultimately, the point of every single perk is to help you win. Some trade accessibility for effect, some vice versa. Some are big and bombastic and blatant, others are subtle.
And it's of no worth to degrade the skill of using DH. If DH were as ridiculously EZ to play, you'd see a bunch of rank 20 Megheads getting 4 man escapes by pressing E. You need to know how to already loop, and you need to know how to loop in such a way that you can position yourself for an efficiently-used DH.
And one thing to leave off on, is that calling anybody who disagrees with you "ignorant" is incredibly self-righteous and vain. Not only is it detrimental to the spirit of actual discourse, which is the point of forums, it's just plain nasty. This is a very toxic game, by nature, and tempers are going to run high, but there is no need for such vitriol. You can air your grievances about dead hard without the sanctimony, and you'll get a much better response in return. I'm sure that neither of us are on these forums for the sole purpose of being antagonistic, so let's not be instigators.
I agree with most of your post; I don't believe I have much to add, but I'll try to give my two cents
I didn't say it in my OP, but I did mention in an earlier post how the effectiveness of DH comes from already knowing how to loop, rather than when to time the perk/how to use the perk. The perk is as good as you make it, basically. And I understand that the average survivor isn't great or anything (including myself), but DH for distance feels #########. I know not everyone feels the same and they don't have to but it feels really cheap when you can't do anything about it, and I wrote the post because I constantly kept seeing people just say "bait it out" when in many scenarios that's not possible to do. And it feels worse when stacked in a trial.
Though I have my own opinions about which perk is better/more powerful or whatever, it's by far not objective and wasn't meant to be. There are problematic killer perks and powers that also are problematic, and it's not to say that simply because I have my thoughts on DH they aren't problematic still. It was just to talk about that one frustration rather than say this is the worst of the worst, like saying it's as bad as spirit's power or something.
Like I was saying before, Sprint Burst is stronger than DH when used right, and I do agree that being outplayed by DH compared to Sprint Burst is more apparent, but DH is used a lot more in red ranks from my own observation. I can only assume why, but I presume it's because of it being a chase extender. Sprint Burst denies the chase even initiating and imho is more geared to stealthing, particularly if an entire squad has it.
In regards to lower (higher? this has always confused me) ranks not using DH as much, I do think Sprint Burst is more accessible and its effectiveness is more blatant than for DH. I also believe Meg is a more popular character than David but I may be wrong.
In regards to the "ignorant" bit, the intention and the implication was to never call anyone specifically ignorant in general. It was to point attention to say that what they're saying is ignorant, or therefore their words about this particular topic are ignorant, not them in general. That's why I titled the topic in such a specific way. I never said anything like "people who say bait out DH are ignorant", I said saying that showcases your ignorance about the topic [and the game]. Nothing to do with their overall intelligence. Plenty of people have disagreed and they have proper reason to, and that's fine. They aren't ignorant for doing so. But I do truly believe it is an ignorant thing to just brainlessly say "bait it out" when DH is used for distance. Sure you can bait out a DH in a dead zone or basically when they're not capable of making any resources, but many times you are next to one in some shape or form.
@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2111393#Comment_2111393
Apparently it's so hard to know than irony is often personified as Irony. So I guess we'll have to get the 9th grade English textbook.
The claim that objecting to DH displays ignorance is situational irony, demonstrated in that although the speaker claims that the audience members in question are ignorant, it is actually the speaker who is ignorant by applying a blanket term of ignorance to anybody who disagrees.
Moreover, in the statement, "You mean the fictional irony that's trying to be superimposed onto me," it is clear that the speaker holds a very high view of his or herself, and assumes that they are not, in fact, ignorant. They are averse to the prospect of being ignorant. This is the manifestation of hubris.
And speaking of r/iamverysmart or whatever it's called (regardless of your opinion of me I'm smart enough to stay away from Reddit), that's not how you use the word, "superimpose." To superimpose means to lay something on top of another object, as in masking. One does not superimpose irony in any turn of phrase. One does not put irony on a person, metaphorically or physically. One points out irony.
If you want to be petty and pedantic, be my guest. I have all spring break and 5 packs of redbull.
than? did you mean that?
I also have no idea how you got that I was calling anyone who disagrees ignorant. My title literally says the following:
Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" showcases your ignorance about the perk and the game in general
Let's analyse this, shall we?
"showcases your ignorance about the perk and the game in general"
None of that has anything to do with overall intelligence, let alone overall if you disagree that DH is a strong perk or whatever. Plenty of people have disagreed for a variety of reasons. They aren't ignorant nor did the OP even imply that. That's just you misunderstanding. I wrote it in a specific way too to make that obvious.
Also more projection. I don't think highly of myself about this topic. Do I think I'm right in the regards to the whole "saying 'just bait out dh' when it's used for distance is dumb" bit? Yea, but that has nothing to do with me being arrogant or cocky. Doubling down on something you say/being confident about it has nothing to do with hubris.
If you can showcase that I'm being ignorant then I welcome you to. But thus far you've talked about misinterpretations of what I said and then projecting what you wrongly assumed I meant onto it and other things. That's not me thinking highly of myself, that's me simply disagreeing with things that are untrue. You are setting up the narrative of "if you disagree with my assessments you are therefore showcases irony and being arrogant".
There is no stipulation for superimpose to involve objects. It's a figure of speech meant to be similar to projection.
I'm not being pedantic and petty, I'm just refusing to be fed shite and told it's sugar and then being called arrogant or whatever else because I disagree.
@Poochkips said:
Thing is, once you see deadhard one time, unless you have a bad memory, it almost never works more than 1 time. At least not on me. I just go into every game assuming people have deadhard. And most of the time, it's not an issue for me
It's fair if it's not an issue for you. I had a similar experience with old DS. Lots of people complained about it, but it was never an issue for me. Everyone's experience is different
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@lagosta said:
@kyogul This post just speaks volumes for how one-sided and pervasive your views are.
The problem with Dead Hard is that it's a ctrl+z command for survivors in an exhaustion perk, and is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk, and has exploitable i-frames. If you get outplayed at a chase by a killer, all you do as a survivor is press E to deny an instance where you would otherwise get downed and extend a chase for longer than it should have been because you got rewarded for being injured and received a quasi-third health state. In many instances where Dead Hard prevents you from being downed can be swapped with having Endurance from Mettle of Man. And you did nothing of substance or effort to get said Endurance effect either.
Dead Hard is not a CTRL+Z button that you can use to erase your mistakes. DH is an exhaustion with on demand activation. It's popular bc it is easy to use but hard to master. Someone extending the loop is not robing you of a kill, it's using a resource they allocated a perk slot for.
Dead Hard for distance can't be baited out. You can't make someone use Dead Hard, let alone does baiting matter when there's a pallet or a window right in front of them. Baiting only works on [BAD WORD] players.
Exhaustion perks are strong, META and like any other META perk (BBQ, DS, etc) should be excepted by you unless ruled out. If someone SB out of a gen, you can chase them without fear of DH, same for BL, Lithe, SH or Head On. But if you don't see a survivor using any of the previous, don't fell cheated if they DH for distance. You're not entitled to a down for chasing a non-exhausted survivor.
Exploiting of i-frames:
You can Dead Hard to prevent from getting hit by exploiting its i-frames. Examples: Dead Harding through/into Punishment of the Damned (POTD). If you were to use Lithe or Sprint Burst and run into POTD, you'd get injured. If you used DH to get across POTD (or even to launch yourself in the same direction as it), you would prevent from getting hit.
From the Wikipedia, notice the NOT INTENDED.
In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner NOT INTENDED by the game's designers.
Now read the description:
When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.
Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
Avoid any damage during the Dash.
Now, i-frames are intended, not an exploit. Repeat with me to reinforce that knowledge since you have trouble reading descriptions and searching for definitions.
Exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
Exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
One last time, exploits are unintended and therefore not listed as a game mechanic.
Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that is all reward, no risk:
Dead Hard is the only perk that involves no setup, no risk, but all reward. You get injured and you get a free third health state on command with no effort to use on your part. Congratulations you can now outplay your opponent because you pressed E on your keyboard.
Right here I cannot tell if you're intentionally misleading or just being oblivious. DH has an easy on-demand activation, but is highly inconsistent for dodging hits, virtually rendering half of the perk useless. If a killer perk like STBFL or PoP only worked as intended half of the time you'd know the struggle it is to use DH.
Also to the people who say Dead Hard isn't a strong perk because "eXhaUsTed oN thE GRoUnD" and whatever other non sense, then why is it arguably one of the most used exhaustion perks in the game, and more specifically the most used exhaustion perk in red ranks (or in other words, the highest rank in the game) ? Why is it always included in meta builds? Do you think people run DS/Unbreakable/Borrowed Time but put on a "[BAD WORD]" exhaustion perk, or an inferior one compared to something else stronger they can use for shites and giggles?
To answer this question ask yourself the reverse: why they don't use other exhaustion perks?
BL has zero activation tiles in Shelter woods and Gas heaven. There are also many others with a random chance to spawn a hill such as Suffocation Pit, Wrecker's yard, etc. Equipping BL is betting on playing the game with 3 perks.
I have not tested SH yet, but at least it seems promising.
Lithe prevents you from using windows while in CD. For most players, it's rather inconvenient.
SB is the only real contender so far, and one with a lot more skill expression IMO, as you can 99% it and have a much better effect than DH for distance ever could.
Head On is a joke.
Dead Hard is not a CTRL+Z button that you can use to erase your mistakes. DH is an exhaustion with on demand activation. It's popular bc it is easy to use but hard to master. Someone extending the loop is not robing you of a kill, it's using a resource they allocated a perk slot for.
The ctrl+z was an analogy and said figuratively, not sure why it was taken literally. I don't particularly agree with hard to master, since DH's strongest use is for distance to a resource. The act of looping efficiently itself is what is hard to master but not using DH.
Exhaustion perks are strong, META and like any other META perk (BBQ, DS, etc) should be excepted by you unless ruled out. If someone SB out of a gen, you can chase them without fear of DH, same for BL, Lithe, SH or Head On. But if you don't see a survivor using any of the previous, don't fell cheated if they DH for distance. You're not entitled to a down for chasing a non-exhausted survivor.
This is no new information that I haven't already been doing. I generally expect DS/DH in every game unless shown otherwise.
I never said, nor implied that I was entitled to a down. I just said it feels ######### and I don't think it's fair considering how it's done. Feel free to disagree but you're not an authority and in no position to tell me what I meant to say. Stop putting words in my mouth.
From the Wikipedia, notice the NOT INTENDED....
Of all the sources you could have chose...you chose wikipedia. You can consult actual official dictionary sources that align with my usage of the word exploit:
Merriam-Webster:
to take unfair advantage of
Cambridge Dictionary:
Collins Dictionary:
If you exploit something, you use it well, and achieve something or gain an advantage from it.
Video game exploit isn't a term in the dictionary. An exploit is an exploit, and the general definition also applies to video games.
Whether or not you agree it's unfair is a subjective assessment, but I used the word correctly and I have actual citations from sources to validate my usage.
Right here I cannot tell if you're intentionally misleading or just being oblivious. DH has an easy on-demand activation, but is highly inconsistent for dodging hits, virtually rendering half of the perk useless. If a killer perk like STBFL or PoP only worked as intended half of the time you'd know the struggle it is to use DH.
This is funny coming from the person who just unironically used Wikipedia as a source, and on top of that quoted an excerpt that can't even be verified. You aren't in a position to morally posture about misleading and being oblivious. Know your place
DH is my second-most used exhaustion perk, I'm aware of the occasional exhausted on the ground issue. Never been that much of a problem to me, and evidently not that much for other people as they run it all the time. If a perk is that buggy and inconsistent then you wouldn't run it often, if at all. Months ago, when killer auras were bugged I tried running Alert. It worked half the time and its use was inconsistent, and subsequently I stopped running it. I, nor anyone else, generally want to run perks that are useless half the time/don't work half the time.
To answer this question ask yourself the reverse: why they don't use other exhaustion perks?
You are aware that I've already said this precise thing elsewhere in the OP/thread, right ? Why are you rehashing my points and trying to use it as a "gotcha" explanation?
I've already said DH is one of the more powerful exhaustion perks in the game and generally easier to use for its strength in comparison to other exhaustion perks. Sprint Burst can be better, but many people don't know how to time it well to make it better than DH. I also literally said in my OP it takes more effort to maintain Sprint Burst. Why are you now copying what I said and acting as if that's a contradiction to my argument?
@ShamelessPigMain said:
Can I use this for my English presentation on irony?
You mean the fictional irony that's trying to be superimposed onto me? Go ahead, I'll be sure to add your response in a gallery of crappy comebacks.
@KayTwoAyy said:
@kyogul because you conveniently chose to ignore a rebuttal that actually shuts down your issues with Dead Hard, I'll repost...
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WAWCXO4HUOCS/image.png
Stop asking why it is the most used exhaustion perk.
Historically, there is no correlation in DBD between the best and the most used.
Freddy is the most picked killer, but he is not the best. Nurse is the least picked killer, but she is the best.
Dead Hard is being used for similar reasons.
Unless I don't feel like continuing a conversation--which I'm not obligated to answer anyone--then I'll respond to dissidents as I have no problem with people disagreeing with this topic, and I already have done that.
Where did I question why DH was popular? That was never a talking point of my arguments.
I'm also not sure how much the paywall argument is valid. You have DS, a perk behind a paywall, and it's still one of the most used perks in the game.
I also have said multiple times I do not believe that DH is the absolute best all around. In summary, I've basically said it is used widely because of its relative ease to use accompanied with being rather strong.
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@Viskod said:
I typically play Killer more because I rarely play Survivor by myself and I'm not a Rank 1 Killer, the highest I've gotten is 5.
Dead Hard is not an issue for me. I've seen people use it to dash through traps, dash back behind me, dash forward and backwards through pallets and loops to pallet stun me. It's just a minor annoyance at worst.
In nearly all cases where its used against me it just results in getting a hit a couple seconds later, instead of getting that hit right then. Rarely does a use of Dead Hard end or significantly extend a chase.
That's fair, everyone's experience is different. I had a similar one with old DS, but your experience even though you've not been a rank 1 killer is valid. I still saw lots of Dead Hards even in green and purple ranks, but I'd just argue you see it the most in red ranks, but with how wonky matchmaking normally is you've probably had plenty of rainbow-matchmaking experience like everyone else.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2108529#Comment_2108529
Oops I actually said it wrong, sorry. I meant to say maps are way less SAFE than what they used to be, so Dead Hard isn't actually that strong as it used to be in 2017~2019 because even if the survivor Dead Hards for distance to a window or pallet, you as killer can still play around it most of the time.
I know it's frustrating seeing a survivor Dead Harding your power, but it's far from being a "third health state". 90% of the time it only buys a few seconds, and on a lot of maps it doesn't even do this.
Ah I see, I assumed that was what you were trying to say but the double negatives just made me think you meant the opposite. Normally I'll just treat it like some maths equation where there's two negatives together that create a positive.
I also didn't play back then so I don't have experience in what you're talking about (not that I'm saying you're lying or anything). At least often with me when I play killer, even if I wait out DH, many times I get players who know how to use it well. They don't fall for the baits (the bait I learned is for some killers fake using your power or if you're only an m1 killer in chase, flicking upward quickly) unless they're in a dead zone and they had nothing else to do in the first place. I'm typically very patient about DH because it's not like I don't want to counter it but it is frustrating as hell to be denied a down because someone pressed E.
I know DH isn't the most absolute strongest exhaustion perk, but it's the most common in the games I play I'd say. I remember relatively recently I was playing Wraith and I went against a swf who all used Sprint Burst and they knew how to use it well and time it well. A squad of people who know how to use Sprint Burst, to me at least, is definitely more lethal than a squad full of DH's, but most people don't know how to time it properly and efficiently so I don't see it often.
It could also be a mental thing as well since I have respect for those players as well since it requires more effort. For DH it just requires pressing E.
@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107682#Comment_2107682
But...that’s all you need to do to counter NOED lol. You have the entire match to find the bones, even after it’s triggered, and there are multiple ways to speed up the progress. Sure sometimes you can get unlucky with spawns, but so can the killer.
The issue I have with NO ED in solo queue is the lack of information. You have no idea who else has done a totem and you basically have to search the entire map to certify if all the totems have been cleansed, wasting so much time that can cost you the game since you're not doing the primary objectives.
When I would play in SWFs often, we were able to say who did a totem and where, and basically pause the game when we needed to and prevent from finishing the last generator to find totems. I remember once playing with some randoms in the discord we were playing against a doctor who I was suspicious of having NO ED. I said to the group to 99% the last generator and look for the rest of the totems. The map was Mother's Dwelling, and I had already done two. We managed to get the other three done and he actually did indeed have NO ED.
If that was a solo queue game that was going more hectic I would not be able to do that. I would be wasting time instead of pressuring generators when there are teammates on the verge of death hook and instead of also taking aggro for them (if I could afford that, at least).
@Rellewd said:
9 out of 10 dead hards never work against me, just saying.............
Want to switch servers?
@Haku said:
I am tired of these threads. The same old nonsense I read and I again I even read " that instances where Dead Hard prevents you from being downed can be swapped with having Endurance from Mettle of Man" which my friend shows YOUR ignorance about the perk and the game. I've explained already why in another thread you can check my history if needed to learn the difference between taking a hit with endurance and avoiding a hit with DH.
Since many have said enough here why DH is actualy just fine I will add how I look at it when I play killer. The perk has 2 effects - one is giving u a chance to avoid my hit and second - you may gain distance to get to a pallet or a loop if you can't reach them. The first effect would not work in 99% of time because I know when to hit and when to wait. The second effect I cannot deal with but that is perfectly fine because that is the effect of the perk. You could use sprint burst and gain distance at the start of a chase with the same success. There is nothing wrong with that.
People who can use DH successfully are these who have hundreds of hours in the game. You claim there is no effort to use the perk but I have to disagree. Dodgind a hit with it requires perfect timing that rarely people can pull off. Meeting such good players who can godge your hits every game will never ever happen. Otherwise many killers would be nerfed to the ground with that logic already cause the truth is the game has never been easier on the killer side ever. We can't balance the game around players who have 5k hours into the game when majority of the playbase are terrible terrible players /that is why also that new MMR system will be a big failure /
It is interesting you pointed out also why most other exhasuting perks are bad and why they need to be buffed esp Balanced that is such garbage garbage perk, with the new stun perk being the second close to it. Personally I want to use Head on all time but first the perks requires to bring a second perk with you and second the effective time u have to run after the stun is way too short since the change they made to the perk years ago /but they never fixed the stun duration/
In the end the only problem I see here is that people are getting annoyed because they get to deal with the same perk over and over again and come up with all kind of excuses but in reality that problem comes from the fact survivors have no reason to use anything else /aka devs wont make anything else usable or remotely good/
I mean, in red ranks you are pretty much designed to go against survivors who have hundreds of hours. I haven't gotten rainbow matchmaking in a while and as of late I very rarely get lower tier ranking; generally at most purple ranks. If it's late at night sure I'll get some greens.
The problem I have with DH is that if there's a pallet/window in front of you that you otherwise would not make, you press E to make it there. That doesn't require much skill to learn to use. And yes Sprint Burst has a similar effect, but it's more difficult to maintain because it overrides the normal running function. I personally prefer Sprint Burst over Dead Hard, particularly but I still can see DH being super strong.
When I talked about the other exhaustion perks, it was not intended for that to be bashing them. It was just to describe how they require more effort to use. I also totally forgot about Smash Hit because of the current pallet-stun bug; I almost never saw people run it.
There is nothing wrong with survivors using strong perks, I didn't mean to imply they shouldn't be running it simply because I or others don't like it. On both roles you're going to get complaints about perks you use or killers you use. It was more of a rant on my side because I think the dismissal of simply saying "just bait it out" is not fair to say and largely misunderstands the issues people have with the perk.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
It's busted against killers who have good connection. Against a player with average or poor connection, you'll rarely use the perk effectively.
I can understand this. My internet is pretty solid and not shoddy from my POV, so when I did actively use DH the exhausted on the ground thing never happened to me that much
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@RenTheCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107151#Comment_2107151
You're asking rank 20 kids to take some responsability and fix the mess of a chase they got themselves into. You're asking too much.
It's better to cry "problematic" on a forum, calling people not agreeing with you "ignorant" and go on a rant about how a small dash forward is the cause of all your problems.
At the end of the day, Dead Hard won't get changed and they will keep losing and blaming the perk that is literally "Exhausted on the ground".
Imagine complaining about me and others calling people ignorant but you insult by calling them rank 20s because they don't agree with you. Bigger cringe: using rank as an insult, and trying to act like a smart-aleck but not even being able to type properly.
You don't seem bright enough to be aware of this, but no one asked, nor cares about your approval you're trying so hard to make important, particularly when you have to mischaracterise, dramatise, and to many extents flat out lie about what was written about.
Writing about something in depth =/= crying
saying a perk is overpowered =/= "cause of all of [my] problems"
Those are thoughts that came out of your head, not mine. That's what you think and not me, and yet for some dumb reason you're trying to make me claim your own stupid thoughts. Keep your trash in your own territory.
You're trying too hard to act cool and your effort's showing. Don't quit your day job.
@[Deleted User] said:
I'd love to see Dead Hard getting nerfed. It would be awesome because everybody would start to use Sprint Burst which is a 100% stronger perk.
I agree Dead Hard for distance feels like BS, but that's the whole purpose of a chase perk: it's supposed to give you extra time. Dead Hard is not less situational than things like SB or Lithe. If you're out in the open, Dead Hard won't save you (whereas SB would), the same against an instadown killer.
Dead Hard has already been indirectly nerfed because maps now are way less unsafe then what they used to be. If we're talking about 2016~2019 DBD, DH was hell to face. Nowadays most pallets and window loops can be played around, and you even have Bloodlust, aka "press W for distance", as a crutch for you.
DH is fine (although it's pretty unfun to face), and I'm talking about this as a Nurse main, the killer that is the most affected by it.
I don't see how maps being more safe (if that's what you were trying to say) has anything to do with DH. DH is used for distance and whether or not it's an unsafe or safe pallet doesn't mean much. If anything, it means more if there are more safe pallets, as it just makes the chase even harder.
The issue I have with Dead Hard is that there's nothing you can do as killer when used for distance and it acts as a third health state. You outplay someone in chase but they press E to undo their mistake and get another life. I don't describe that as a perk that's fine the way it is, especially when it can negate being downed over powers.
@MeepLessThan3 said:
To say that Dead Hard is all reward and no risk is a misunderstanding through lack of experience using the perk. Dedicated servers make it the opposite as you can Dead Hard, but it will be a 50/50 if you'll be exhausted on the ground. Yes Dead Hard can be annoying as killer, especially when all survivors are running it, but once they use it, you know they have it and can corral them into dead zones. Plus a good chunk of survivors aren't really good at using the perk, minus high ranking well experienced survivors.
Dead Hard is most definitely my second-most used exhaustion perk; I have plenty of experience with it. Exhaustion on the ground is a thing, but like I said in my OP, if it was that much of a problem and the perk didn't work half the time or more, then why is everyone running it instead of Sprint Burst? If it was that bad it would not be ran nearly as much as it is now. Dead Hard is by far considered a meta perk. What sense does it make for a meta perk to be weak and not strong?
Knowing a survivor has DH or not doesn't mean much when it's used for distance. Zoning is a tactic in general sure but acting as if that's plausible in all, even most instances on all maps is not realistic. And it also varies on the killer as well. Demo can zone a lot better than, say, a Wraith.
edit: included above responses
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@Lord_Tony said:
You know what else makes dead hard super ######### broken?
The game's broken aim assist will force my swing into a total random direction because of dead hard causing me to miss horribly.
it's even worse when they 360 dead hard
Oh I hate that so much. I remember the first time it happened to me. On Léry's, was trying to wait out someone's DH. There was a window in front of them, but I was a bit too close for a DH to work to get to it, and so I was basically on the survivor's ass and they DH's into the wall of the window and I was hitting them at the same time. I should have downed them then and there, but no aim assist made me smack the vault instead. I literally was like WTH when that happened to me. I knew why but that was my first instance of it and it shocked me.
That survivor tried to vault the window while I was whiffing but I managed to smack them. If they had spine chill + resilience they wouldve made it out the window.
The 360 Dead Hard's are also something else too. DH is the one perk that really affects how I play killer.
@DeadHardMan said:
My favorite exhaustion perk is Dead Hard (for obvious reasons) but I agree, it definitely needs some tuning.
I remember there was a thread while back suggesting a small duration where the Survivor can't interact with anything after using Dead Hard. The fix could be something like "After you Dead Hard, for 2 seconds, you cannot interact with windows and pallets". That way you gotta time it better and it actually takes skill to use.
I 100% agree with this, and that sounds more balanced.
@Krunga said:
I'd like a change where the Exhaustion effect doesn't allow you to vault pallets or windows.
- Lithe makes sense since you just vaulted,
- Dead Hard can't be used as a get out of jail free card,
- Vaults and Sprint Burst is just a waste,
- Head On is basically a free grab on the survivor anyway.
Hmm...this is interesting and would make using exhaustion perks more skillfull. I'm not sure precisely what I think about this, but it has promise I think.
@Irisora said:
It really is the most op and unfair survivor perk. And that's probably the reason it hasn't being touch in ages. Its literally in every match, and i get it, it makes the other exaustation perks look terrible because as you said this perk have no drawbacks and you just have to hit E to make it work.
It funny how the devs said one time that they will take a look at all perks that are being overused and tone it down to balance the game. Meanwhile all we got by that excuse was the Ruin nerf and ages later the DS nerf.
It really boggles my mind when I see people talk about DH being not so great, or even that it sucks. "exhausted on the ground", "it doesnt work half the time"
Ok if it's such a weak perk then why is it one of the most popular survivor perks in the game? I very much can argue it's in the top 3, probably top 1 especially in red ranks. If only given the option to pick one perk, I'm pretty sure a survivor is either going to run Sprint Burst or Dead Hard as opposed to just DS/Unbreakable. A lot of survivors crutch hard on Dead Hard and you can tell because a lot of them drop like flies when they don't have it up for whatever reason.
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107216#Comment_2107216
I don't know what to tell you other than I fight people with Dead Hard all the time and it has never seemed that OP to me. Every once in awhile it helps them escape, and more often than not it artificially extends a chase. I've never been too put out by the extended chase to be honest. Dead Hard is a Perk, 2nd Chance or not. Survivors and Killers both have them. And it isn't a "free mulligan" as the Survivor had to play one Perk down to use it. I've just never understood (nor shared) the passion against this Perk.
And for the record, I never run Dead Hard, just as I never run DS. I never got that consistent a return on them. My standard build as a Survivor is:
Spine Chill, Iron Will, Calm Spirit, and (Perk of the Day) depending on what I need.
That's fair if that's your experience. I have a relatively similar one with old DS. Never had an issue with it. Even as survivor I never liked old DS because I didn't like perks that had RNG value. So many consecutive games I'd not even use it.
Old DS was strong but because of solo queue, it wasn't that strong to me. And I was prone to slugging anyway. I think of old DS similarly to Adrenaline; it's strong when it's setup properly (like in a swf or something), otherwise its value is very RNG. It can be useless many times, it can be useful sometimes. It depends.
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@ALostPuppy said:
Meh, I hate sprint burst more than dead hard, and sprint burst is a MUCH better perk. I think the reason why dead hard is hated so much is because it's a chase extender that happens mid-chase with no requirement like smash hit, balanced landing or lithe, whereas sprint burst's happens at the beginning so you know there's nothing the survivor can use to extend chases with except pallets and windows.
Dead hard isn't overpowered or broken, if you think it is you're kinda weird, but it is annoying.
Oh I 100% agree. Sprint Burst when used right is more lethal than Dead Hard. But most people don't know how to time it properly for it to be so.
The thing about Sprint Burst is that often times it denies a chase to begin with (at least imo/ime), as opposed to Dead Hard denying a down and extending a chase that's already started. You can Sprint Burst away to a strong loop and make the killer waste a lot of time not only getting to you, but downing you. I prefer using Sprint Burst for this reason when I do use exhaustion perks since i'm half-way decent at managing its exhaustion and timing it when I need it, although I think Sprint Burst is geared more for stealthy gameplay rather than more aggressive gameplay like Dead Hard so that also explains why Dead Hard is used more; it's the more fun gameplay style while also being very powerful.
I definitely do think Dead Hard is overpowered and I have very good reasons for believing so. I can be the weirdo all day long, and evidently I'm not the only one who thinks so either, so a bunch of weirdos also agree with me too.
@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107207#Comment_2107207
I like how obvious you didn't read the post lol
You can tell they're running off of steam when their arguments resort to repeated ad hominems and mischaracterisation. I'll let the clown entertain itself and go back to the drawing board, it needs the prep work. Glad some feathers got rustled, though.
@ggezbaby said:
if baiting “only works on bad players” and 99% of survivors are terrible and bad at the game, i don’t understand how it’s a problem. what are good red ranks?
It's got multiple uses, and again you can't bait out a DH that's used for distance. How am I as the killer going to bait out a Dead Hard when there's a window and a pallet right in front of them and I'm not close enough to hit them?
Baiting only works when you're right on their ass and you are basically touching their character model. You can't bait from a distance. And some killers can't even bait it out. Try playing Nurse and come back to me about "baiting out" DH without essentially wasting an entire blink.
@nursewannabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107573#Comment_2107573
Dead hard for distance is fine as long as bloodlust stays in the game, it's literally the only counter to a killer bloodlusting you.
IF they finally remove bloodlust then I'm ok with reworking DH too
This is a fair trade off. I've never cared for bloodlust as killer anyway
@wxnickxw said:
Isn't the set up for dead hard getting wounded?
To me that's the condition to being able to use DH, not the setup involved in actually using it, which is pressing E while running.
@glitchboi said:
Saying "just bait out Dead Hard" is the equivalent of saying "just do bones against NOED." Just wanted to point that out.
Please don't start an argument about NOED though, let's just talk about DH here.
I have the same issue with NO ED, particularly for solo queue. But that is a damn good analogy, I like it.
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@SleepyWillo said:
I think its fine as is. It gives distance? Every exhaustion perk gives distance. Arguably DH gives the least.
Activation? Requires injury. 1 hit down killers ignore it. Exhaustion addons can ignore it.
Ignore a hit? Doesn't really work most of the time and you just get exhausted on the floor anyway. Or just bait the hit? idk
This is such a dumb post.
Dead Hard is the strongest exhaustion perk in the game. It involves no setup, no exhaustion management, and has the biggest benefits: i-frames and used for distance on command whenever you want.
Most killers don't have one shot ability, irrelevant. Exhaustion add ons are being removed or nerfed heavily to basically be useless.
People who say "bait out dead hard" and "it barely works half the time" showcase their lack of experience going against the perk and just a lack of knowledge about survivor perks in general.
Dead Hard is so weak and doesn't work half the time, but yet is seen all the time in red ranks and is always part of meta builds and is the most used exhaustion perk for more skilled players. Because survivors love running meta builds but accompanying them with ######### exhaustion perks for the memes.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099706#Comment_2099706
Thank you for the information! I appreciate it. My PC has a 3080, so I'm hoping it'll run the game pretty well.
If you've got a 3080 FPS is not going to be a concern. Only would be if your CPU is going to bottleneck your GPU performance, which I presume it shouldn't but people combine anything in prebuilds. What is your CPU?
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Discordance STBFL Pop/ruin and Thrilling Tremors/BBQ
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I still don't understand how the Devs are ignoring Spirit hard and acting like Freddy is the only killer who "performs too well" while also being easy to use.
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@ItzZane_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2101988#Comment_2101988
You can bait out DH but freddy can be OP regardless if you're an old or new player
You cannot bait out a dead hard that's used for distance for a pallet / window that's right in front of them lol
it's so braindead when people say "just bait it out" when that's not how it works in reality. if it was that simple to do it wouldn't be the most used exhaustion perk in red ranks
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2102183#Comment_2102183
Yeah because people don't go idle in this game AT ALL.... meanwhile you can recover your exhaustion by doing a gen, doing a totem... and guess what? Your SB is back! Phew, that was hard.
Who ever said that there is management for exhaustion perks? I've literally never heard that. You have conditions which are not meant to somehow challenge the survivors to get rewarded. Do you understand how perks work in games?
"If other perks were as strong as you say they are, why aren't they ran more often?"
Are you in red ranks my friend? Sprint Burst is heavily used in those ranks. I've also seen a lot of Head On users. Many people who run Dead Hard like to engage in chases, those who do not (because they either lack map knowledge or just want to stay healthy for as long as they can) won't. I much prefer to face the latter if I am being honest.
"What you're saying makes zero sense and isn't reflective of the actual state of the game."
Hilarious, cuz nah I am pretty sure if you read what I am saying it makes perfect sense. I am just not as biased as you are. The fact that you claim that Dead Hard is all you see as "meta" pretty much lets me know you aren't aware of what survivors are using as their exhaustion resources.
Oh no, now you're being theatrical, snarky, and now putting words in my mouth.
I never implied that survivors are never idle. That came out of your mind, take responsibility for it instead of trying to pretend that I said that.
My point was that it involves management of when to use Sprint Burst and when not to. You have multiple objectives to do as a survivor and subsequently you are going to have to run from point A to B to get things done efficiently, as even using Fixated isn't fast enough to do them when needed many times. There's also the fact that as killer, you can make the distance gained from Sprint Burst and Lithe (maybe not Balanced Landing because of how it's activated) less effective by moving in a certain direction. There is nothing you can do to shorten the distance of Dead Hard. The fact that Sprint Burst overrides the general running function is huge, meaning you have to manage its exhaustion to try your best to be able to use it in chase (or to avoid a chase) as you don't necessarily get to pick when the killer comes to you. Ideally, you manage it in a way where it's activated at all times, even when the killer is likely to come to you.
Whether or not you heard it is irrelevant. But you obviously need to manage the exhaustion more so particularly for Sprint Burst than Dead Hard.
I never said Sprint Burst was sparsely used in red ranks or that it was not common. Just said Dead Hard is used more in red ranks. Are you now lying about what I said because you're too dense to actually come up with rebuttals to what I said? And yea, I've been red ranks on both ends for quite a while now. What's your next lame attempt to try and discredit what I'm saying?
Oh my days what a loser you're being. I never said only Dead Hard is included in the meta in regards to Exhaustion perks; in fact, I said the opposite:
The meta has always been minimum: DS/Unbreakable/DH. The only other Exhaustion perk that can be traded for Dead Hard is Sprint Burst.
Imagine having to lie while arguing with someone because you're too thick to actually formulate rebuttals to defend your point. I'm out, I'm not arguing with a half-wit tyke.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2102072#Comment_2102072
"Dead Hard can be used in any instance and all you have to do is press E to do it. It involves no effort to maintain or any thought to setup. It only involves pressing E for a third health state."
Wrong. Dead Hard still requires some type of thought behind it unless you want to go immediately down. That's why you see people using it meanwhile they run into nothingness and go down unless the killer swings and doesn't bait it. . The distance you gain from the dash isn't enough to save you in an open area or an unsafe area.
The fact that you can use all other perks while remaining healthy makes the other perks far more annoying to go against.
The only exhaustion perk that's going to save you when you're in "nothingness" (or a dead zone) is Sprint Burst. As I said, Sprint Burst, objectively, is the strongest exhaustion perk. But its balance comes from overriding the normal running function, meaning that the survivor has to manage when to walk, run, as well as manage their exhaustion metre. That all sounds easy but even with Fixated, walking around to things is slow as #########. You are going to have to run quite often around the map to do objectives, hence the balance coming on the survivor's end to manage the perk in order to use it.
There is no management for Dead Hard. You get rewarded for being injured and you have a free third health state. Even then, you can make iframes avoid a hit if you know what you're doing with Dead Hard, even in a dead zone. But the point about Dead Hard is that it's extremely unfair to have a perk where you won a chase, but someone pressed E to outplay you. Every other perk involves some sort of setup in order to use, Dead Hard involves pressing E.
Also, the fact that Dead Hard also includes i-frames makes it even stronger. I can Dead Hard over killer powers, such as Hag Traps. Pyramid Head's power, Trapper's traps, and so forth. I can Dead Hard into things when a killer is swinging at me (or even at the killer) to make them whiff, and get a tiny bit of distance to make it something nearby if it's that close, like a pallet. The fact that Dead Hard has actual invincibility is disgusting. I can Dead Hard in the same direction as Punishment of the Damned and not get hit if I time it right. That should not even be a thing in this game. If I were to use Lithe, Balanced Landing, or Sprint Burst in the same direction as Punishment of the Damned, I would get hit 100% of the time. Hell, if I were to walk into it and try to get over it with the aforementioned exhaustion perks, I'd get hit. With Dead Hard, I can press E in the same direction as, or to get across from Punishment Of The Damned and not get hit. That's unfair.
Whether or not you think other perks are more annoying is subjective, but it's quite very obvious Dead Hard is a lot stronger than what you want to admit it as, hence why it's the most ran exhaustion perk in red ranks, and probably in general (Sprint Burst, particularly in higher-numbered ranks would give it a run for its money though).
If other perks were as strong as you say they are, why aren't they ran more often? You see survivors running meta builds all the time but for some reason they want to run weaker exhaustion perks, arguably one of the most important type of perks to include in a meta build? Like why is the meta not DS/Unbreakable/Soul Guard/Lithe? Or Head On? Or Balanced Landing? The meta has always been minimum: DS/Unbreakable/DH. The only other Exhaustion perk that can be traded for Dead Hard is Sprint Burst.
What you're saying makes zero sense and isn't reflective of the actual state of the game.
A good suggestion for balancing Dead Hard that I heard about was that it should be the same as it is now, but you cannot vault or drop a pallet for multiple seconds. I heard 5, that sounds maybe a bit too extreme. I'd say 3 personally.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Lithe, Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Head On... all require to simply slot them in your loadout in order to “activate” them. Dead Hard is the only perk which actually requires you to be injured in order to be able to use it. So I’d argue that those perks have little to no condition to use them.
Should Dead Hard work after vaulting a window? Perhaps entering a locker, Or you can drop down from a great height and that will activate it. Sounds kind of silly doesn’t it?
I get that Dead Hard seems annoying to you. Everything you said is very much in line with other comments that have been brought up on here before, I just can’t get behind something being “annoying” and that being the reason for why it is flawed design.
The game revolves around chases because survivors don’t come with weapons or pistols to defend themselves with. So it makes sense to have a perk like Dead Hard to dodge a hit. It’s a perk, that’s how perks work in most games. You slot it, you gain an advantage over those who do not have it.
Literally the same could be said about every other exhaustion perk. Because DH doesn’t apply to every single situation you are presented with. There are often times I wish I had Sprint Burst because I needed more distance or when I went into a locker and the killer walked right by it and I could have bought myself more time by stunning them. Etc.
Annoying is subjective, because I would much rather be dealing with DH than Sprint Burst ANY day of the week.
You have it mistaken. All other Exhaustion perks involve setup and management, or in other words effort on the survivor's part. Objectively, Sprint Burst is the best exhaustion perk. But Dead Hard is preferred over Sprint Burst because it can be used on command and you don't have to manage the exhaustion.
Lithe involves setup as you may not be in an area where there's a vault, or there are situations where you may want to save it. Also as far as I'm aware, you get the least Distance with Lithe compared to other Exhaustion perks that give you Haste. It's because Lithe activates as soon as the vaulting animation begins, rather than ends. It's not necessarily that much, but you still get less distance overall.
Head On is...Head On.
Sprint Burst involves a lot of time management of the exhaustion metre. When to walk, when to run, when to 99% your Sprint Burst. It's not as easy as it looks to do effectively.
Dead Hard can be used in any instance and all you have to do is press E to do it. It involves no effort to maintain or any thought to setup. It only involves pressing E for a third health state.
There is no arguing about whether the other exhaustion perks have "little to no condition" to use them. They objectively have more requirements and are more difficult to use than Dead Hard and they're generally weaker than Dead Hard. Why do you think you see Dead Hard in every red rank game?
edit: oops forgot Balanced Landing. Well that's simple: involves an elevated platform, many maps don't have one, and you are often not even near one on any maps. It's a huge gamble as to whether or not you load into a realm and you're able to use the perk to begin with.
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And no survivor perks should be that braindead and successful either
E to outplay?
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I love how passionate you are about Clown. He needs to be promoted more
He's such an underrated killer
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099459#Comment_2099459
Thanks! I can't wait tp try it out.
I would also recommend using stretched res for game performance boost.
I have a 1440p monitor, I personally switch between 1915x1440 and 1610x1440. I mostly use it for playing killer, but also for survivor because the native FOV on both roles to me is too zoomed in. I don't really benefit from the vertical FOV boost in any of those resolutions since it's not enough, so I don't feel like I'm cheating or anything. You'd get that with a 1:1 resolution though.
Also if you are getting an NVIDIA GPU and you want to use filters using NVIDIA Freestyle, I would be wary. Every time you install new drivers, your Freestyle filters will disappear and you will have to put them back on again. I tried for months and could not find a solution and no research helped either, so I had to resort to Reshade, which gives apparently a very tiny decrease in performance (like -10 FPS) but I tend to always linger around 100 FPS.
DBD is very unoptimised on PC so you may have to tweak things until you find something that worked. I have a pretty powerful PC I'd say (2700x w/ 1080ti) and I would still get stutters until I started using stretched res. Some maps also give huge FPS decreases, like new Ormond.
Also personally for me, I turned VSYNC on to make my FPS more consistent and to prevent stuttering. But that's all up to you.
edit: also this may be redundant to say but there will be no need to uncap to 120fps if you don't have a monitor with that refresh rate, or higher. If you get a monitor with 60hz then uncapping to 120 fps is not a good idea and you're going to be locked into 60 fps. Get a good monitor with fast response times, a good panel (i recommend IPS), and the features you want.
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@[Deleted User] said:
None, unfortunately (I love Silent Hill as well). The thing about Bunny Legion is that it takes away the only advantage that Legion has in a normal chase: being a short killer. Good luck trying to mindgame with that huge head.
The mindgame is that survivors are supposed to uwu at the cuteness mid chase and give the legion an opportunity to capitalise off of it
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2099302#Comment_2099302
I can't remember everything, but I'll take a look. It's a high-end PC.
Labelling something as a high-end gaming pc doesn't mean anything. I can label an office pc with a modern looking case and a GPU from 10 years ago as a high-end gaming pc and some bloke who isn't computer-savvy is going to believe me.
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@MikeyBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/241759/finally-decided-to-purchase-a-gaming-pc
Meh, an Xbox Series x/PS5 is about $700/$1400 cheaper than a good gaming PC. I play on a series x with a MSI optix monitor and its pretty smooth. I’m capped at 120fps.. the only big competitive differences playing “DBD” on a PC compared to a new gen console is on PC you can play on stretched resolution to see over objects easier compared to the standard 1920x1080p and killer is easier to play on m&k for sure. Arguably survivor has a slight advantage when played on controller though. The game runs and honestly looks better on 1080p. So unless you’re playing other games, to dump $1000+ just to play DBD in my honest opinion isint worth it.. cross progression isint out yet either....
You have no idea what PC specs he has to say how much cheaper it is. There is no average of price for a "good gaming PC".
New generation consoles are much better than the previous, but not as big as people, including the companies that produced them, made them out to be. Reviews, like on Gamernexus, shows the performance is extremely variable, especially if you use ray tracing or not. Even on older games, it can perform like a 1060, or basically like a previous generation console. The new consoles are great for their price but not enough to start toting console supremacy.
Also mouse and keyboard is superior in both roles, hence why you see it used by comp players. And in general, PC + mouse and keyboard is the superior option in pretty much any veteran/skilled player setting in pretty much any other game.
Maybe I've just outgrown consoles but even if it performed like a 3090, wouldn't buy it. The only time it feels right to play on a controller is for racing games and a very few select pick of fighting games. So much more I can do on a PC than a console, and the gaming experience is just better for mouse and keyboard alone.
The new consoles are great for their price and it's a good thing you don't need to spend $1000+ to have a decent-performing machine to play games, but it's not even near enough to start toting console supremacy.
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What are the specs? Even at 1080p that has to be a moderately high-end PC to run games in general at 180FPS
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The issue I found in SBMM were generator speeds. Unless you're Blight, Nurse, or Spirit, you do not have the potential to traverse a large map and down someone fast at the same time if they are competent. It does not take long for 3 generators to go by if all of the survivors are split up.
I tried playing wholesome builds in SBMM like not using any slowdown perks on Freddy. Games ended in order 8 minutes. I was forced to use ruin undying pop to have a chance against the survivors who were all running meta perk builds
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The only time I can think of healing in basement being a good thing is if you know the killer is far away and is not mobile enough to get back to the basement in time to initiate in chase with you
Or if the person has We'll Make It, because why not
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@TragicSolitude said:
Flashlight clicking isn't necessarily meant to be toxic, it's meant to get the killer to chase them. I consider these survivors the "designated distraction": they are there to waste my time while the other survivors pump out gens. That is why, when a survivor flashlight-clicks or teabags, I turn and walk in the opposite direction, immediately returning to patrolling gens.
Sometimes flashlight-clickers have one of the "Get chased by the killer for 180 seconds" Daily Rituals to do.
I've personally not really had this experience with flashlight survivors.
Most people in red ranks who bring flashlights will not try to go for flashlight saves or even use it for me to get their attention to chase them. They use it to BM in chase. You dead hard to a pallet and drop it? BM and flashlight click. You pallet stun? Flashlight click to BM. You're at the exit gates and you know you can make it out? Flashlight BM.
It's ######### cringey.
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Declining in your own subjective perception of how it should be? As far as I'm concerned, DBD is still growing and still remains one of the most popular games on earth, on twitch and on steam. Still always in the top 20 on both platforms
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@BaldursGate2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094989#Comment_2094989
I have played through over 10 games in the last months and the only hard part was always the start. It's like everything in me repels the idea from beginning something new.
Depends for me personally. Honestly, I can't think of any game that I've played extensively where I had to "suffer" through the beginning. it was basically I liked it from the beginning. if I didn't like the game then I didn't like the beginning. Simple as that.
The only game I recently kind of forced myself to play was Undertale because a friend was playing it. i found the beginning to be really mediocre and normally I would have just dropped it but I played the entire game. The result of my overall thoughts of the game and its story: mediocre. So nothing changed. But everyone's different.
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@MadLordJack said:
That may be the case for you, but addiction is a real issue and games like DbD prey on the loop created by the gameplay and grind.
To be quite honest, I can't imagine any company designing a game not wanting it to be addictive in some capacity. They want people to play the game as much as possible for profit.
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It's not purely about starting a new game. It's finding another game you find entertaining enough to want to play, beginner or not.
First impressions can be a big determiner in whether or not you will continue playing a game. For me, I was not off put when I started playing DBD and I subsequently continued to play. I was off put by Valorant, and I struggle to play it. I'm not lazy because I don't want to learn it, but I simply am very disinterested, and borderline dislike the game. Same applies to many other games.
Not being interested =/= lazy.
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Will this be in the next PTB?
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You honestly should be able to kick an already-regressing generator. I see no reason for pop to not work with ruin for that reason, especially when surge and ruin work.
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@Alice_pbg said:
It's very killer dependant honestly...
Let's say for M1 killers in general, rather than for strong killers like blight/spirit/nurse who can do whatever they ######### they want pretty much
@Phasmamain said:
Midwich’s best strategy is a DC tbh
Midwich is one of my favourite maps tbh, I like going to it if I feel like preserving my hexes.
@Bwsted said:
Define your win condition.
Name the map and killer combos you were thinking of.
Then we'll go from there.
@sleepywynd said:
It differs a lot player-to-player and game-to-game. Nurse on midwich is hated by many, but top tier players (who know how to play it) love the map on her as she can stand in the middle and just teleport to any generator easily (even if deadzones are annoying, they can be learned).
You'd need more specificity to get specific results and strategies.
I was thinking more general, like an M1 killer. Specifically we can go for Wraith. Combo...err at the moment I run: STBFL, Bamboozle, Pop, and Discordance. But more generally I run something like BBQ/Surge/STBFL/Brutal or Enduring
No map in particular, just what to do on certain maps if you need to have a particular strategy as opposed to just go to gen chase and then hook. Like I only learned recently to pretty much 3 gen always on Suffocation Pit, Azarov's Resting Place, etc. as opposed to playing more normally.
@EvilJoshy said:
One strategy that helps every killer. Helps, not guarantees a win.
Ignore the Survivor's rule book for killers.
It's kind of a subconscious thing for me to respect it, like to avoid camping/tunnelling, although certain perks incentivise me to do that. Like STBFL, I will tunnel someone specifically just to get stacks as opposed to trying to tunnel them.
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@TripleSteal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2091314#Comment_2091314
Good point about shadowborn, I agree.
Regarding flashlights, players bringing this item tend to focus on it a bit too much instead of trying to win, and waste a lot of their own time as a result. Someone following the killer to get a potential FL save means less survivors doing gens.
Oh ok, I see, that makes sense. Although just from my own experience, many people who bring flashlights tend to not even go for flashlight saves and just use it to taunt/flashlight click after they press E to outplay or pallet stun.
Also earlier in your original comment, you would say the Twins are. In English it's confusing but a general rule that works pretty much all the time is, if it's a collective noun that has a plural spelling ending at the end (like the s in twins), use the conjugation for plural third person (basically the conjugation for they). In British English, for collective nouns that don't have a plural ending (like BHVR, as a company, or Google as a company, or a family), you'd also use the conjugation for they/plural third person, but in American English, even if it's a collective noun but just without a plural ending in spelling, you treat it as singular (Brits: BHVR are fixing the problem / Americans: BHVR is fixing the problem)
Sorry if that was tmi, i like talking about this particular subject if i can
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Hex Totem spawns on some maps are very much a problem.
Like on Ormond, there's a high probability a hex totem is going to spawn on the long rock in front of the main building. It's almost always, too. Hexes should never be so easily spot, but never be in a predictable spot either.
I honestly like the idea of like a "Corrupt Intervention" for hexes, but make it base game IMO. For the first 120 seconds (or more), all hexes appear as dull totems. If a dull totem that is actually a hex is broken, the hex is cleansed.
However I don't like the idea of hexes spawning in predictable places. I've thought of the idea of coding never to have hexes spawn where survivors are, but that simply is going to tell survivors where the hexes are more easily in general instances, rather than the coincidental instances where they are very close to a hex totem.
Personally, I think something should be done about totems in general to give even dull totems a benefit to the killer. I think totems should be more of a side objective of the game to make it more interesting and for more things to do as survivor. Old undying did this in a not-as-good way but the premise was still there. But I still think totems in general should be harder to find, dull or hex. Midwich and Léry's are great examples of where to hide totems well, and they should program maps' hex totem spawns in a similar manner.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
The game would have died before the Hag came out. People were clamouring for the ability to play with their friends since day one, and the game was rampant with people lobby dodging in hopes of finding their friends in queue.
SWF saved this game, and removing it would kill it.
Devs have posted statistics that the overwhelming majority of survivor games are not even with a duo SWF, much more rarely trio or 4-man
So what you said is obviously a lie. The game has grown past SWF and SWF is a minority.
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@TripleSteal said:
▪Twins is (are?) 4th strongest killer in DbD.
▪Assuming everyone in a match is actually good at the game, freddy is ~10th strongest killer.
▪99% of hitboxes' complaints are based on confusion between hitboxes and server latency issues.
▪Single survivors' mistakes often cost as much as killer's, it's just much less obvious.
▪The feeling of losing control of a tense match due to missing crucial timings by several seconds or comitting a single slight mistake is not unique to killer gameplay. However, you only figure it out when you are playing in a strong SWF against a very decent killer.
▪Hiding in lockers is a viable approach.
▪Not breaking ruin at all is sometimes the right thing to do.
▪Doing dull totems is a waste of time from the perspective of team victory; just the same as searching chests.
▪90% of game mechanics are hard or impossible to figure out by just playing; watching guides is a must if you want to improve.
▪Any information survivors give to the killer is important. Disturbing a crow half across the map from the killer currently chasing your teammate not only reveals your position at that very moment, but also allows the killer to predict your future actions.
▪Flashlights significantly decrease survivors' odds to win in an average match.
▪When surfing a wall and getting close to its corner with a huntress behind (assuming not enough time to fully charge the hatchet - a clear 50/50 case), only the worst and the best players keep running straight; everyone else jukes.
▪Perk section. Using shadowborn is a bad habit. Iron maiden on huntress is overrated. Huntress is the only killer for whom bloodwarden is consistently viable. Bbq < tremors, if not accounting for BP bonus. Thana change was a buff because the only two killers it can be played on suppose no healing anyways. Ruin+pop is good on several killers (3, to be precise), and it's more viable than ruin+undying against experienced players.
▪People unsatisfied by the quality of purchased product are significantly more likely to write a review. Forum population is by nature not representative of DbD playerbase as a whole, average opinions here are considerably more negative.
I have a question:
Can you explain the flashlight comment?
And about Shadowborn, I understand the sentiment, but some people use it out of need rather than comfort. I know there are some players who get headaches playing some killers (or even all killers) without the additional FOV from either Monitor and Abuse or Shadowborn. I personally cannot play Blight without the extra FOV from either stretched res or Shadowborn, the latter being the best. I've tried for several days and I get legitimate headaches on the native FOV for killer.
In general, the native FOV on this game is really low and I can't play on it for all killers, but I use stretched res for everyone but Blight. I'd love to not use Shadowborn but I'd get migraines after 3 games.
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@Mister_xD said:
Discordance.
its such an underrated perk - and it always tells you where to apply map pressure to get the most benefit from it.
Survivors who have sense, when they realise you have discordance, will split up and do generators, which is arguably worse in a way depending on the killer and/or map.
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I think it's pretty impossible to defend generators on a lot of realms unless you're Spirit with good add ons, Freddy, Nurse, a few other exceptions, but largely M1 killers with poor mobility and slow down aren't going to cut it
Blood Lodge, Sanctum Wrath, Gas Haven, Ormond, Suffocation Pit, Groaning Store House
a large majority of the maps aren't suited for many killers and it's definitely not pleasant and in my experience unless you're a God at the game, you're going to have to bring in slowdowns. If the survivors are even competent you're going to struggle heavily
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090993#Comment_2090993
The thing is that looping isn't everything that there is to survivor. Survivors also have to make a lot of decision making: what generators to prioritize to not make a 3 gen, when to unhook and when to rush gens, when to deal with things like Plague's infection and Freddy's dreams, knowing when to take agro for a teammate, etc.
To me non 3 genning is the easiest thing ever. It's really as simple as doing the centre generators first and save the ones on the edge of the map for last. However for whatever reason 90% of solo queue players don't realise that.
None of the other things you talked about were difficult for me to understand. If anything, were extremely intuitive.
For killer, it's extremely variable and it's more difficult to deal with as you're dealing with 4 people and you have to counter 16 perks, almost always in red ranks very strong ones accompanied often with survivor-sided maps. For killers like Spirit, Nurse, Freddy this isn't as hard to deal with, especially if you're proficient and/or are using strong perks, but if you're playing a weaker killer like Wraith then it is exceptionally more difficult to master Killer decision making and chase efficiency than it is to simply "master" survivor which has a lower ceiling for skill in order to win at higher levels of gameplay.
I will say though, playing survivor in solo queue can be rough, and especially if you aren't using exhaustion perks, which is easy mode.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Deathslinger is way more balanced than Huntress, and imo he's way better to play against.
Mastering survivor is actually harder than mastering half of the killers. Most of the killers have pretty straight up powers that don't take more than 10 games to get the hang of, while efficient looping as survivor doesn't. Things like decision making and coordination aren't also that easy. I really laughed when I saw a certain Legion main with the name "Survivor is hard", like dude, you're playing the most braindead killer in the game lol.
Spirit's basekit is almost fine aside from the lack of a phasing start animation. The speed, recharge, duration and activation rate are mostly balanced and survivors can play around them. Her addons are what needs to be gutted.
I had this opinion and I can say I can agree that because survivor practice isn't linear (the killers you go against are random, so are the maps), efficient practice is harder, whereas killer you can play the same killer to your heart's content and get linear practice.
However the decision making, time management, and efficiency to shut down chase fast in order to create map pressure in a variety of scenarios is much more difficult to master than simply learning how to loop. At a certain point, good looping merely becomes a 50/50 on both ends. But other than that, that's all there is to survivor.
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Dead Hard is the most problematic perk in this game and it alone makes it heavily unbalanced
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@BananaBlooD95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090785#Comment_2090785
If you run that build on Freddy you shouldn't complain about survivor DCing in the first place, there's a limit to the bullshit you can give to the other side.
As much as I like ruin undying for the reasons above, I almost never run it on anyone but Freddy, who I haven't played actively in a little while now. I only play Freddy (and subsequently, that build) after I experience too much BS in previous games like a bunch of flashlight clicking bots running dead hards, survivor-sided maps with BNPs Prove Thyself etc while I'm just playing Wraith with surge or basically no slowdown perks.
It's my "vent all of your frustrations" build, and I quite enjoy it for that purpose. I also don't complain about survivors dcing either, it's mostly that I find it ironic
My builds as of late, regardless of killer (as of late, mostly playing Wraith, Legion, Doctor, some Demo), is something like: STBFL, BBQ, Bamboozle/Enduring, Surge.
I always run surge because I hate kicking generators, but for Demo I use pop because Surge doesn't activate for special attack downs, although lately have been experimenting with Pop on Wraith because I've been running into much harder games
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090710#Comment_2090710
I wasn’t on about all killers, just the OP (although there’s plenty of others too). I worded it like that because that’s how he worded his thread
I don't know you, and you don't know me. Stop acting like you know anything about me to tell me what I'm trying to say, especially when you're so bad at it that you get it incorrect.
The purpose was to start a dialogue, never to state "facts". Experiences vary. Ironically as much as you're trying so hard to be objective here, you're the only one being dogmatic with your views and your trashy attitude coming into the thread.
Also the typical "neutrality is objective" point of view which has no substance either, which I'm not surprised about coming from someone who has an attitude like you did in this thread. Reminds me of those people who act like they have more wholesome virtues because they don't "favour" any political party over another and therefore are automatically objective
@Ryan489x said:
pretty much, get ready for the flood of survivors coming in here telling you how full of ######### you are
Already happening lmao
@gibblywibblywoo said:
One thing you're missing is that tunneling and camping is a good way to lose against a good team of survivors.
Whereas genrushing is a good way to win against a good killer.
Both are very boring.
Don't get me wrong, I truly hate camping/tunnelling. As much as people complain/complained about undying/ruin, I like(d) using it because it gives me the freedom to not camp and tunnel.
Just from my observation/experience, trying to win as killer goes like this:
use meta perks, and if not, you resort to camping/tunnelling/3gening, particularly if the map is unfavourable for you and/or the killer you chose, e.g. large maps for m1 killers.
There are exceptions like if you are exceptionally good at chase, which comes from tonnes of practice--probably hundreds if not going into thousand(s) of hours.
@Mooks said:
I am not sure what you are talking about?
i am seeing plenty of threads against survivors gen-rushing, DCing, hook suiciding, crutch perks etc
The point was to not say nothing about survivors is complained about, but rather which is justified more. From my own observation on this forum and elsewhere, if a killer complains about genrushing they get made fun of and simply told it's just the survivor's objective and to git gud. If a survivor complains about camping/tunnelling the criticism is much more lighthearted and not personal, and a lot of lack of "git gud" responses and holding the survivor accountable like the killer is in the aforementioned situation. Similar criticism scenario with crutch perks. If I ran a ruin undying spirit I'm not going to get criticised as much as if I ran old DS, DH, and unbreakable. But again, just my experience.
Hook suiciding/dcing, at this point it's just part of the game and I'm not sure if any killer posters actually criticise it as heavily as camping/tunnelling by survivors, since it favours the killers in the game. Most I've seen is that it's cowardly for your teammate, and that it's boring for both sides, but nothing personal really.
@Axe said:
Everything you said can be applied in similar way to survivors....
To a much lesser extent, from my point of view. I explained it above
@BananaBlooD95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090690#Comment_2090690
Nah survivor complain and DC for everything.
I hook someone before Corrupt Intervention is gone? Run at me so I can kill them.
or
I get to pop the very same gen multiple times with PGTW because survivor allow me->they rage and tell me I'm trash and pop carried me.
Whenever I play ruin undying tinkerer freddy I get so many people who give up. But if I quit a game with four dead hard's on a bad map then I'm the loser for not wanting to endure the game.
@noctis129 said:
Just don't play killer. Let the survivors queue get longer and longer.
I'm done trying to explain myself. I just play survivor and endure the pain of waiting for a game.
Like mugombo up there doesn't realize he himself have tunnel vision.
His posts very much give off the "i pLaY bOTh siDeS" vibes to try--and ultimately fail--at asserting superiority.
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@Mugombo said:
What you really mean:
The more I play killer, the more tunnel vision I get and only notice criticism against killers.
Don't put words in my mouth. That's your own projection onto what I'm saying, and it's incorrect.
What I meant is what I said. It wasn't meant to be fact, but it seems like you took it that way.
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@Zixology said:
Idk... There's something extra cringe about people who fail one skill check and feel the need to crouch walk to the other corner of the map and hide for 3 straight minutes.
Oh yea I forgot about these types of survivors. I don't encounter them often.
Last time I encountered a survivor like this, they knew how to moonwalk but couldn't do Huntress Lullaby skillchecks. You can see where the priorities of them are.
@[Deleted User] said:
I love survivors who blind me at pallets because I actually use a headset. Had a streamer once saying claiming that I was using Lightborn because I could hear his footsteps and pinpoint his direction after a blind at a pallet everytime.
It depends for me. Since many people run Iron Will, it makes it even more difficult. Although about two days ago I had a match where I got blinded at a pallet and broke it against a survivor who was using Iron Will, and I managed to follow the footsteps and basically walk directly into her until the blind effect went away and got a hit. Was amazing
@Rullisi said:
Yeah it's pretty annoying when they do that just to annoy you. Best bet is to try and ignore them which will frustrate them more.
Yea it's not obstructing or anything 90% of the time since it's not really effective or makes the game more difficult, but when trying to learn some new killers it can become particularly obnoxious. Like the last game I had I was trying to play Blight, got Haddonfield against a group who brought Balanced Landing, flashlights, and iron will, and were just blinding and taunting me the entire game and also teabagging. In total including with the update I've only played like 3 blight games.
I particularly don't understand the cockiness from survivors like this because 90% of the time they bring in multiple second-chance perks because they suck without it. If you're going to be cocky at least have some skill but often these are the types of survivors who drop like flies when they don't have dead hard active.