hermitkermit
hermitkermit
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- hermitkermit
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Ah this tugs my heartstrings. You are definitely one of the most iconic members now and back when I first joined. Your love and passion for Freddy truly inspired me. To this day I can’t see Freddy and not think of you General. If I’m ever lucky enough to cross your path in the fog, know that I truly consider it an honor. 🫡
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@Ryuhi said:
For any of the old heads who see this, regardless of how we may have gotten along over the years, your dedication is appreciated. If not by BHVR, than it should be by each other. Regardless of blatant or unintentional biases, there have been a multitude of perspectives that provided a wide range of insights, criticisms, over/under sights, and legitimately valuable feedback. Everyone knows that individual communities get swarmed with biases to the point of becoming echo chambers, but having a forum that worked in the most literal interpretation of the word for so long is something that this game sorely needed and benefited from.
For anyone who put more thought into their perspectives than emotion, more intention than reaction, more care than frustration, regardless of right or wrong, your input to the forums was a positive contribution. When you think about the fact that this post doesn't necessary address the people who wear their insights on their sleeves, keep in mind that will be the future of feedback for the game going forward. For all the "X platform is Y biased," that will be their only avenues of feedback going forward. Whether that means they'll be able to better disseminate feedback or get lost in a contradictory sea of warring factions, only time will tell. But the names that have been here for the majority of the game's lifespan, genuinely wanting the game to be a better experience irrespective of personal gain, you're all appreciated. If not by the developers, than by the people who shared the same goal. If I can't speak for everyone in that camp, I can at least speak for myself.
Thanks for the discussion, and the exchange of ideas.
Not sure if you remember me, but I remember our several discussions back in the day quite fondly. You and I didn’t always see eye to eye but you always managed to take the time to explain your perspective really respectfully. Reading this message really guts a bit. Seems so silly cause it’s just a murder game but your comment just reminded me of how many hours I’ve spent here and the conversations I’ve had with so many people, including you. And so while this is a blip in existence I just wanted to say thanks for sharing your passion and thoughts. Good luck out there.
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@zonkednb said:
As a relative newcomer I still feel I've got so many great people left to get to know, so forgive me if my list isn't exhaustive. I might tag people who don't even know who I am but I've read their posts and enjoyed them plenty.
@cogsturning We may not agree on everything, but I find your takes reasonable and your love of arguing is a great spectator sport, even if I don't agree with you about everything. Also is the reason I'll be able to keep contact with some of y'all.
@HoodedWildKard For the Demo love and general positivity, something to be lauded. Gem.
@Skittlesthehusky Thanks for the effort you make and what you put back into the community. People like you keep aging communities alive.
@Nazzzak Mature and empathetic, likes Freddy which is a sin but there's forgiveness to be earned. You made the forums feel welcoming.
@hermitkermit Every post I've seen has been upbeat with a rather wholesome inclusive undertone to how to approach the game. Refreshing given all the grizzled vets that would prefer the playerbase shrink to 12 comp players.
@GentlemanFridge Resident birdposter, birdhead, bird stan, birdcore birdvibes with bird aura. I love the consistency. We solve conflicts with bird pictures, and we use bird pictures to establish new friendships.
@Arcturus Fellow ST enjoyer, japester and pleasant conversationalist. Only really got to interact with you during the forum death rattle but looking forward to a few games in the future.
@NeverSolus I'm still figuring out if your takes are the most reasonable, well explained takes I've read so far, or you're just in it to fight people Cogs style. Keep the mystique up, you're fun to chat with that way.
@CountOfTheFog Thank you. That's all!
Hey thanks 😊 It’s always been a pleasant interaction. I appreciate the tag. I tend to lurk more than talk lately both here and on discord but I’m always happy to chat. You’ve always been fun to talk with as well. RIP the forums :(
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Everyone here is so important. I’ll miss everybody. <\3 thank you for teaching me, talking with me, and even disagreeing with me.
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I’ve taken so many breaks from DBD lately. No matter if I was playing the game at the moment id always check on the forums. Seeing what’s going on, looking at other people engaging. Killing off the forums like this feels like losing a part of the game. I was already struggling playing the game often and now it feels even less appealing. All the time I’ve spent learning and listening on here, voicing concerns or swapping ideas of solutions with people now totally rendered pointless. Feels like silencing :/
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4119643#Comment_4119643
Aven hit is dead on here. Mind you I'm agreeing with Aven. I like…. never, agree with aven. (<3 Aven) but you made me agree with Aven.
Sheesh.Feels like even some of the forums most passionate members with personal beef of bias, even those who were banned long ago for getting too wild would proudly and happily come together here, hand in hand against the forums closing down. Beautiful in a bitter way.
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Really disappointing..
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@Massquwatt said:
Looking over the arguments being made here and I don't know about you guys but if the nerfing of WoO means that the looping ability of survivor players goes down collectively because of it…I think it's time we look at other ways at trying to improve the looping skill of players rather than letting everyone's skill be dictated by a singular perk. cough improved tutorials cough.
I’m all for improved tutorials and I’ve advocated for killer bots in custom games for a long time so survivors can practice looping without learning entirely through trial by fire.
But I don’t think WOOs impact can be reduced to “people just need better tutorials.” It provides information in a game where that information constantly changes. From the maps, to map variants, to things you have no control over like used pallets. I wouldn’t be surprised if chase efficiency dips after the change, just like I’d expect killers to struggle if gen auras or scratch marks suddenly disappeared. Of course it’s possible for everyone to play without that kind of information, but the game is much more difficult and frustrating without it.
That’s why I’ve never understood the “run to yellow = brainless” argument. Killers use blood, scratch marks, gen auras and sound cues to reduce uncertainty all the time. Nobody seriously argues that a killer following scratch marks means they don’t know how to chase or a killer going to a red aura generator means they don’t know how to patrol a gen. Information about the resources around you is valuable regardless of whatever role you’re playing, and having that information doesn’t automatically mean you know what to do with it.
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Sorry to hear you’ve gotten some rude messages. That kind of behavior is never okay. To answer your question, I suppose maybe it’s because it can feel like you were powerless in that moment? That no amount of your own skill makes a difference. I’ve gotten body blocked by 2 killers plenty of times and 1 will hit and the other hits and there’s just nothing you can do. I call it the sandwich of punishment lol. It’s frustrating but In the macro gameplay, assuming the killers aren’t getting downs super fast this way, it’s usually not the best play because it leaves other survivors to do gens.
If 2 killers are on me I consider it a big bonus because I’m keeping them occupied if only for a moment, even though I am rendered a bit powerless. One of those situations where you win and you lose at the same time lol.
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I’m pretty limited in how I play. I’m almost entirely a Solo Q player. I’ve tried killer many times and In all honesty I just don’t enjoy it, I feel bad a lot and usually end up letting everyone go. I can’t play with others in SWF very well because I get very nervous and end up making really stupid plays. That leaves Solo Q. And for a long time I was totally happy with that. But I don’t think I need to explain how… kind of awful it feels, especially lately. It feels like there were a lot of things I was looking forward too that got axed, nerfed very quickly, or just have yet to come to the game.
And with the recent nerfs of some strong survivor perks, along with the most recent perk update it feels like solo isn’t important. I get that it’s the devs choice for the game to be the way it is, and that’s alright. I just have to accept that the game they want is a game where the part of it I enjoy playing is arguably the worst part of the game. But that’s a me issue, not a dev, or killer, or SWF issue.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116436#Comment_4116436
The reason tunneling is such an overdone topic is because A. Ppl love to complain about/defend it B. Discussions on how to fairly disincentivise/nerf it. Unfortunately most ppl focus on A instead of constructive discussions about B.
Heck i made a thread about trying to stop hard tunneling and it's been going about 2 months and has over 400 replies and about 80% of said replies are just bellyaching 😑
Haha yeah I still lurk on that thread. As toxic as it can be, the community sure is passionate and I love that. People go to war like it’s politics or religion it’s so divided. And while it’s a shame we can’t be more united, it’s nice to see people care so deeply about such a silly little game
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116436#Comment_4116436
That's a whole lot of words to be put into a single line at the end.
But your not wrong it's easier, that Is correct. And everyone wants the easy but efficient way to win.
The reason people give reasons to things though, is due to people also stating that there is no reason to do so, because one side isn't having fun being targeted.
In this case tunneling, which weirdly enough has become a broad umbrella term, is considered toxic by some. Unfair by some. And while I won't sit here and say "hey I like it happening to me" people only ask for these people to understand that hey there can be a reason why it is happening and it's not malicious to you as the opponent. But often times they are talking to a brick wall
Well yeah, the TLDR is short because it kinda needs to be lol.
I know why tunneling is controversial. I don’t really advocate for it but I can still understand why it’s done. Whether that makes it good for the game is a separate discussion. I don’t think tunneling being the easiest way to win is good for killers or survivors as a whole, but that the way the devs want the game so it is what it is.
The recently unhooked survivor is vulnerable because they’re already injured, so they are an easier target. At the same time, it’s also understandable why that survivor feels it’s unfair because they don’t have the same opportunity to succeed as their opponent. They’re starting the race with a broken leg. Both things can be true. The strategy can be easy and understandable from a gameplay perspective while still being an unpleasant or unfair experience for the person on the receiving end.
It’s when people try to make it out to be more than that where I feel things get lost in translation. When we start equating human survivors to non-sentient gens or make tunneling out to be some kind of personal vendetta or something is when we lose the forest for the trees. It’s easy to do and that’s why it’s done lol.
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I honestly think topics like tunneling get way more complicated than they need to be.
Sometimes the answer is just: it makes the game easier
I think people start overcomplicating when they try to come up with all these other explanations or worst-case scenarios to “justify” why people tunnel. People seem to have a hard time accepting that something is popular because it’s easier, and that’s there’s nothing inherently wrong with that.
And I mean we see this all over the game.
Nurse is pretty much universally acknowledged to be the strongest killer and one who can basically ignore the rules of the game, but she still doesn’t have the highest pick rate Because she’s harder to play. Judgement isn’t as popular as Ghoul or Jason even though they’re arguably just as if not stronger, but they’re not as easy to play
Sprint burst was king for so long because it’s easy to use , there’s really no activation requirement. Windows is easy information and it’s been a very popular perk for ages because it’s easy to use.
Players are people, and people generally choose the path of least resistance. Yeah some want a challenge. But for the majority they’re gonna do what’s easiest.That’s tunneling in most cases.
It’s not malicious, it can be done in a malicious way but more often than not it’s nothing personal. I also don’t think it’s some grand statement about the state of the game. It’s just an effective relatively easy strategy for winning and it’s not the players fault the game is built that way. I think people get kind of weird about acknowledging that tunneling is popular because it’s easy, but that’s anything in the game. People use strats because it makes the game easier, people like certain maps because it makes the game easier. People use certain add-ons, items, perk combos, and meta because it makes the game easier. It’s normal. I don’t think tunneling is excluded from this.
I think when people start framing these topics as some kind of consequence, threat, or some deeper psychological thing or statement is where I feel the conversation gets totally derailed lol
TLDR; I don’t think it’s that deep.It’s often just easier to win that way
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@Firellius said:
IIRC, BHVR stated that the vast majority of players were solos, but that was quite a while ago and it may have changed in the meantime.
Yes I believe about a year ago they released party size stats. In the world SWF make up about 11%. Solo 41%.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if it was an attempt to purposely slow the game down a bit. Thats a pretty common complaint is that the games often go too quickly. And secondary objectives are usually recommended to forcefully break the game loop and make it last longer. And in my games it definitely works because it’s usually like an 8k if everyone tries to do the salts lol
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I’m sorry you’ve had a rough couple matches. Games like that are always very frustrating and it’s hard not to feel like it’s some kind of personal attack. There are definitely some jerks in the fog.
That being said, thankfully flashlights do have limited use so It’s worth considering that restricting how often flashlights can be used would be on top of what is already restricted. It would be a considerable nerf to one of the few items survivor has, but if you think it’s well warranted you can have that opinion. I just don’t know a good way to approach frustration with flashlights without making them more trouble than their worth.
I know you talked about lightborn and how you shouldn’t be soft locked into running it to avoid getting blinded, and I absolutely get what you mean. Personally I am not a fan of solutions being behind perks. The game has far too many perks for that to be a reasonable ask. But it does seem to be the direction that BHVR wants the game to be in. Judgment is very dependent upon aura perks, tunneling or slugging can only really be countered by perks, certain perks are almost useless unless ran with others which also limits variety. I am not a fan of this either. But unfortunately I do think this kind of “perk solution” is here to stay. So in truth, if you really don’t enjoy being blinded I’m afraid lightborn is the best and most realistic solution that we currently have available. I do wish you better games in the future! I’m sorry people were jerks.
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Would love X-files for survivors! And I think Gremlins would be a crazy and fun killer. Imagine Stripe leading small hoards of other gremlins that could attack generators, survivors, or even trap the map. Plus that chase music would slap.
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Personally I’ve always really liked boons. But admittedly it can be hard to get decent return on investment depending on rng. It does take time to find the bones, the radius is specific and can either be totally useless or really strong depending on where it goes and the sound they give are considerable drawbacks.
I feel like because many stronger perks were tuned down, boons are now viable again in relative strength to everything else. I do think more boon perks would be fun. Personally I’ve always wanted a trap boon. One that offers a stun or blind or something silly. Maybe even a perk to quiet the sound boons make. Can’t tell you how often I’d have exponential get no value because the killer hears it and snuffs it out before you could recover . Regardless, I’m happy to see them in the game more recently.
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That would be a cool skin. I also just see Mr.Waternoose from Monsters Inc whenever judgement is crawling towards me lol
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Respectfully, I really don’t think it’s that deep. People tunnel often because it’s easier to win that way. People often pick Ghoul or Blight because it’s easier to win that way. People often pick perks like SB or Lithe because it’s easier to win that way. People don’t often pick Nurse or Judgment because it’s harder to win that way. People don’t often pick Weaving Spiders or No Mither because it’s harder to win that way.
People want to win easier. It’s really that simple.
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@cestoda5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113014#Comment_4113014
TLDR: Buff her more. Really?
I mean, that’s a pretty reductive reading of what I wrote lol. My point was that I like her design and think the skill expression is good, can see an area where she could use some help, but I also think the fact that this killer can, just by existing, invalidate a pretty large chunk of survivor perks could get unhealthy if it became a more common thing.
Those aretwo separate issues. Whether Judgment could use a little help with the close range interaction has nothing to do with whether I like the fact that they can shut down a bunch of survivor perks. That part isn’t really about skill on either side. The survivor doesn’t get to play around it because they don’t know they’re facing Judgment when they choose their perks, and the killer doesn’t have to demonstrate skill to make those perks unusable, which is my main criticism.
Maybe this will be more helpful?
TLDR; Buff close range maybe. Judgment cool. Perk shutdown kinda sucks, don’t want it to be common or it could be problematic
it is possible to see the good and the not so good at the same time.
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Hmm.. I think two things can be true at once here. On one hand , having a killer like the Judgment is refreshing compared to some of the more recent styles we’ve gotten. Certainly new and brings a different way to engage entirely for both as and against, which is something I think the game needed. A very cool killer.
On the other hand, I can agree that simply by how she works it does further limit perk choices, and does so in a very stale meta that has gotten quite a few major perks nerfed recently which tightens the perk choices even more.
It’s true that Judgment is not the first to do this, as there are plenty of instances where you may bring a perk that is not useful because of the killer or even the map. It’s part of the RNG. But I do also agree that I don’t think it’d be a particularly healthy step forward in the game if this happened more frequently. There’s certainly a difference between a perk that won’t get you a lot of value because of RNG and a perk that can’t even be activated because of RNG, and because survivors can’t see which killer they are facing it does significantly impact them in a different way.
I can understand how something like SB was overtuned and deemed unhealthy for the game because it tended to shut down interactions with many m1 killers. But in the same way, the Judgment does the same thing with many survivor perks, but I don’t the answer is nerfing them, I think their strength should be strong because of the skill it takes to use it.
Perhaps this is more of a Nurse situation where it probably wouldn’t be healthy to use either Nurse or Judgment as a benchmark of balance and strive to create more killers like them because they change the game and shutdown interactions in such a distinctive way, but the skill expression required to do well with them kind of gives them a pass.
A bit rambly here but I just don’t think there’s an easy answer. I think the Judgment is really cool, I love the change of pace they bring to the game, and I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Frankly a small buff may be in order for help with close range. But I can’t just ignore that they do shut down many perks, and I’ve never really been a fan of that because survivor perks are the survivors “power” and in the same way it isn’t enjoyable for a m1 killer power to struggle because of certain perks, it isn’t enjoyable for a quarter or so of your “power” to be dead on arrival through no fault of your own.
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I hope people continue to give them a chance but I understand they’re not for everyone. They remind me of a Shoulder The Burden type of situation, where it has the potential to be very strong and powerful but usually only in capable hands. Personally I like having a mix of easy, moderate and difficult. But not everyone wants to or has the time to play a difficult but powerful killer or with a difficult but powerful perk and that’s okay. Luckily the game has plenty of options.
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@Bad_Medicine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111891#Comment_4111891
My sister and I tested The Judgment in customs in the PTB a LOT. I have Huntress at P100 and use a full aura build on her for snipes, orbitals, and two-taps. Trickster at P55, usually a full aura build for snipes and ricochets, newish with Jason as he's freshly added to the game, but snipes and orbitals with a full aura build. My sister also plays Huntress and Jason with full aura builds. Playing against each other, just paying attention was the strongest counter to long-range snipes. As far as builds, I let go of my comfort blanket Dead Hard knowing that it was going to be Exile, Exile, Exile, no Hooks, and stepped out of my comfort zone - or rather, switched the role of my comfort zone.
Object of Obsession - who cares about the aura read every 30 seconds because again, your best counter is paying attention. The big thing is if they're constantly seeing you with auras, you're constantly seeing them, and you'll know if they're aiming at you.
Boon: Shadow Step - hard counter for aura reading, bonus for no scratch marks. Hides the 30 second mark aura read from Object.
Extrasensory Perception - huge radius to see where the Killer and basically everything else is (including totems to boon), but also grants Elusive at-will. Use if you absolutely must cancel the 30 second aura read from Object and there's not a locker nearby, or really any other time you need to just disappear (and/or get info) for a moment.
Fourth perk is dealer's choice, I found several good ones. You could bring Circle of Healing to combine with Shadow Step. Inner Focus would give you even more Aura reading on the Killer (10 seconds every time the Killer deals a health state to any Survivor), and seeing your teammates' scratch marks can help you find someone if you need a heal (or need to heal them). Since you're blessing totems anyway, Overzealous would give you a 10% repair speed bonus (20% if it was a Hex totem). Eyes of Belmont to add 2 seconds to your aura reads on the Killer.
Point is, there's a LOT you can do, and I think a lot of the, "The Killer is overpowered, aura builds are oppressive," sentiment is largely coming from the Killer being new and people still learning how to play against them (the same thing that happens ANY time a new Killer is added to the game), and because of the way the Killer's power works, playing against someone who uses it effectively may very well require stepping away from a comfort build (or set of comfort builds), which I feel a lot of people would rather not do.
EDIT:BY THE WAY, getting in a locker, much like with Artist's Crows, protects you from Divine Light, and you will not be injured. So if there's one closeby when you see the beam aura from its obscene 48 meter range, jump in, and at most, you get very briefly pinged with Killer Instinct (if they have that toggled on).EDIT EDIT: I was wrong about the locker thing, but this site absolutely will not let me delete that bit, awesome 👍
Haha, no worries on the delete thing. But I appreciate the in depth response! These are great suggestions. I like to give stuff time to breathe a bit before changing anything, both for playing as and against. So I’m not on the OP camp or the Weak camp.
I do agree this killer is super unique and does require a bit of branching out for counters, which is a good thing! I tend to try and stay away from full counter builds though, only because it’s one of like .. what 49 killers in the game? And if the only way I can ever survive decently against them is to have a very specific perk set up, then I don’t think that’s a good thing. And I’m not saying the judgement is like that , I think it’s simply too soon to know. But I was struggling with finding ways to reset and so it seems like hiding my aura is the best way to do it, and thankfully everyone’s provided some great suggestions to do so. Thank you! Looking forward to trying it all out.
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I think it’s still far too soon for conclusions. We need to give the community time to learn how to play As and Against before writing something off as OP or Weak. Give players time.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111817#Comment_4111817
I'm a solo q warrior but I've been trying to take my chances with the new Elusive effect and just book it to the basement to Sable Care. I figure a lot of people are in the honeymoon phase trying things out like Nurses Calling
Ah, that is a good idea. Thank you for the suggestion! Was thinking Shadowstep might also help, at least to be able to heal within it. It should hide auras right?
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I feel like it’s too soon to tell, as I tend to lean more towards letting things settle for a bit before making any major changes. I personally feel so far if you’re paying close attention the beam gives you enough of a warning to move out the way, even in indoor maps. It can be more difficult if it’s not an open space but map difficulty with and against certain killers/perks is nothing new and part of the rng of the game.
The only thing I personally have noticed that I’m struggling with is how difficult it can be to try and reset health states, especially fresh off the “hook” since you still retain your heresy so tunneling has been pretty common and effective in my games. But again, I’d like to give it more time before any changes are made.
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I’ve recently got a friend back into the game not too long ago. Honestly I told her to expect to die. Alot. I explained the intended survival rate, the fact there’s almost 50 different killers with different playstyles and counters, and that the amount of knowledge required to be decent is like learning a new language. After sortve setting her up to realize the way the game is, I showed her the tomes and basically explained the game is more fun if surviving isn’t your goal, but completing challenges is. Focus on the Bloodweb, getting all free characters to 3 to unlock perks, look at the different cosmetics you can work towards etc. then overtime the more you play, the more you learn, the better you get. It’s just a very slow grind, and it is intentionally unfair. It’s a fun game to want to be good at. But you won’t be good for a very, very, long time.
That being said, she usually can do about 2 matches before she gets really frustrated or disappointed and then hops off lol. But explaining the mindset you have to have for survivor helped ease her in for sure.
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I think this feeling is entirely normal, and it’s an issue with the game on all fronts with both roles. The pallet density changes definitely made an impact in safer tiles. The game often feels one sided within the first minute.
If you’re winning a lot, then the game is going to put you up against stronger players. What’s difficult is if you lose a lot, it feels like it won’t put you against weaker ones. I think it’s because of the “soft cap”. It’s relatively easy to approach it and you can’t get out of it.
Try not to get discouraged, know that it’s a normal part of the game that everyone is feeling, killers and survivors alike. Take breaks if you need. And if there’s a particular couple maps that are giving you trouble, I highly recommend practicing in customs against bots. You can pick the map, all the survivor items and perks, and your own. You can experiment with different builds and run tiles over and over again until you feel confident about it. The bots aren’t gonna be exact replicas of survivors, but being able to run drills with map tiles, gen locations, and against perks is a great tool.
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@jayoshi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4095607#Comment_4095607
That's cool and all but some killers have really loud chase music and it makes it impossible to hear. I play with headphones and I can't hear them. What about people who play this game who are deaf? Screw them, right. They shouldn't be allowed to play /s. What about people who don't play with headphones? So the counter is buying physical hardware.
I play survivor more than I play killer and I have had so many killers DC because my friends were on top of using cakes to instant heal and allow the special power to happen. It's hard to defend this event.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IVT1U39DWP3N/screenshot-2026-06-30-094451.png
I feel there’s plenty audio accessibility features that the game would benefit from. Lowering some chase music, toning down survivor screams, muting plagues vomit and survivor vomit sounds, things like that. I also struggle with hearing things super well which is why Spirit is such an issue for me because hearing here she’s about to phase is majority of her counter play. Hopefully audio accessibility will be considered more in the future.
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I think it’s because stronger doesn’t equal fun. And that goes for the whole game. Killrates and winstreaks are a great example. People can win thousands of their games but still aren't having fun and don’t enjoy the killer role. This event is strong for survivor but that doesn’t mean its fun.
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I have always voiced how content creators should not be considered the voice of reason for the game because their scope of reality is entirely different. This is their job, and they get paid from the game and supported by the game. They are the same as any influencer, it’s not their job to relate to the average player it’s to sell something to the average player. And I must admit it was a nice change of pace for Scott to actually admit he didn’t notice the cakes because it doesn’t matter to him the way it matters to everyone else. A shame people can’t see that this applies to more than just cakes.
Either way, great post. Here’s hoping next event I won’t be so lacking.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
What keeps you from just doing a gen and taking chase if he comes?
You wouldn't hide from a chainsawing hillbilly in a locker and then complain that his chainsaw does not run out would you.
I think a lot of this is very rng and specific game state dependent. If you’re dead on hook or injured for example obviously you don’t want to be found. If the gen you’re at is out in the open and the only pallet spawn is likely the one he will be teleporting to, you don’t want to be found. If you’re one of the last 2 survivors or and he’s slugging for the 4k, you don’t want to be found. If you’ve finally found one of his hex totems but you don’t want him to spawn on you while you’re cleansing it, then you don’t want to be found. If he’s running Friends till the end and you’re exposed, you don’t want to be found. There’s many instances where you’re better off not actually playing the game.
If you hear a chainsaw billy approaching because of terror radius, you can position yourself. There isn’t a terror radius for Jason in that way, no way to know if he’s coming towards you or not. There are no visual or audio cues, no directional cues. It’s very much guaranteed that if he sees you he’s coming for you, so you have make sure that you’re in a good position for him to show up, and that it makes sense if you were the next one to be hooked.
Im not saying there’s no counter play, there is. But that counterplay is not interactive. I imagine everyone, no matter if they love Jason or hate Jason, can understand the general frustration of this kind of counter play. -
I’ve said this before, but I think it applies here too, the community’s expectations for casual players, especially in solo, are completely out of touch.
People constantly talk about how bad solo is, and a lot of the blame gets placed on the players themselves. But I don’t think enough people stop and ask why so many casual players struggle.
DBD has over 40 killers, each with unique powers, addons, perks, and counterplay. There are hundreds of perks, dozens of maps, status effects, countless tile variations, and looping itself is a skill that takes hundreds of hours to develop. Even if you stripped the game down to base kitsonly, there would still be an enormous amount to learn.
And to be clear, I don’t think this is about one role being easier than the other. Both killer and survivor can be difficult and stressful in completely different ways. One doesn’t invalidate the challenges of the other.
What I do think is that the game’s structure makes it easier to become proficient at killer than it is to become proficient at facing killers. And people don’t consider that.
As a solo survivor you don’t control what killer you face and you don’t control your teammates. Learning is random exposure, it’s trial by fire every time. Meanwhile a killer can repeatedly play the same character, with the same addons, and even practice agaisnt custom bot without the pressure of live matches, so you can try going against the craziest perks on your killers worst map. You can pick every element in the game to practice with until you feel comfortable and confident in your skills to go into live matches.
So we’re asking casual survivor players to keep up with a massive amount of knowledge and mechanical skill, while giving them no way to practice it. Then we get frustrated when they play like they don’t know what to do.
If we want a healthy playerbase and not just veterans with thousands of hours, so every match isn’t a sweat fest, we need to seriously consider what a new or casual player has to learn just to survive a chase longer than 15 seconds.
Right now DBD demands an unreasonable amount of game knowledge, matchup knowledge, and mechanical skill before an average survivor player can be considered competent. And I think a lot of the community has lost sight of that.
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I like these suggestions. Let’s hope they reach some important eyes. 👀
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Nothing quite gives me a rush like yoinking someone off a Gen as Wraith or Ghostie, or opening the exit gates alone, injured, and still managing to escape.
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Unfortunately the people who play DBD are in fact, people. Which means they’re messy and passionate and complicated. Everyone is just trying their best, in their own ways, and in their own minds. But I agree with the overall sentiment. Just have fun. :)
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@hlambda said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091080#Comment_4091080
From the guy who needs to analyze sentences and how people respond…maybe get your to, too, and twos in order. I am getting off before I become like you detestable human where your only interaction is on a forum.
There is absolutely no need for name calling. You can state your opinion and disagree with others but calling someone a “detestable human” is just rude and unnecessary. It’s just a game.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090610#Comment_4090610
It's not my place to become a martyr to fix the world. I just have to live in it.
I don’t think treating people as individuals instead of representatives of an entire group makes someone a martyr.
There’s a pretty big difference between self-sacrifice and simply not punishing people for something they didn’t do.
Respectfully, that mentality is the problem. And while you can openly admit you’re a part of the cycle it’s hypocritical to criticize others for doing the same thing. Especially when you understand why it’s wrong for others to do it, which means it’s wrong when you do it too.
I can’t help but feel this is exactly what you mean by, “Lie down with the dogs, you get fleas.”
Regardless, it doesn’t seem we’re going to come to any agreement. So I wish you good luck in your future games. Thanks for the conversation.
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@Abbzy said:
Jason highly is countered by bodyblocking teammates he has only timed speed boost and his spear is one time use and then he must go out of chase to reload or he must use omnipresent but that can be used to gain huge distance or compleatly dissapear from him.
If he continues to chase he is just 4,4 m/s m1 killer which he cant afford to do so, so teaming against him like against krasue works its bit weaker then against her but it has its advantages.
I’ve tried body blocking a tunneled teammate and it resulted in both of us getting hit with the spear because it’s a 2 for 1, and that tunneled individual went down. I really, really recommend not trying to bodyblock unless you’re literally running towards the Jason and are far enough away from the other survivor, because if you’re too close, the spear sends you back towards them and it goes through you both.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090459#Comment_4090459
If survivors get to teabag me because 'killers are toxic' then I get to kill the entire team if one teabags me.
So the survivor assumes all killers are toxic because of one killer, and the killer assumes all survivors are toxic because of one survivor.
Feels like a system that guarantees nobody learns anything. Strange that you’d defend the very behavior you’re criticizing, but to each their own.
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@drag27 said:
proof that people are never happy, next killer could have a power that just makes them jump forward 5ms and yall would still complain about it
It’s a big community with thousands of different people who have different backgrounds, culture, and interests. It’s impossible for everyone to agree. The fact that some people aren’t happy isn’t proof of much. This isn’t a survivor issue or a killer issue it’s a people issue. When the new survivors comes along with their perks, we will be seeing the exact same kind of discussions, and the exact same kind of complaining.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090030#Comment_4090030
Lie down with the dogs, you get fleas.
Wait sorry, maybe I’m misunderstanding your point.
Are you saying that if a survivor bags, that specific survivor gets targeted, or are you saying that if one survivor bags, you start treating the entire survivor team differently?
Because I thought you were arguing the latter. For example if Ace is the one bagging, then not only Ace but also Cheryl ends up paying the price too even though she didn’t do anything.
That’s why I brought up collective punishment. It’s not saying the person responsible for BMing shouldn’t face consequences, more so it’s that other people who are innocent are getting punished because of the actions of someone else.
If the only thing Cheryl has in common with the bagging Ace is that they’re both survivors, is that really “lying down with the dogs”? Even if she never bagged, never BMd, and didn’t do anything wrong herself? Or am i just misunderstanding?
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I just hope to see my sweet dweet on the big screen!
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089574#Comment_4089574
Because if I kill the right person, I can kill the teabagger at my leisure. And my rule is - one teabag from any survivor and everyone dies.
…ah.. okay, so collective punishment.
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@NotVerySuss said:
Yeah dude I agree. killer doesn't have the right to play a chill relaxing game and win. they should be swimming in a pool of sweat to earn their win. only survivors are allowed to be handheld.
By that logic any discussion about balance is just people demanding the other side sweat harder. Which, to be fair it probably is. But it’s not as if these same kind of criticisms aren’t brought to survivor perks either.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089621#Comment_4089621
If they loose control of their mond keep it clear and go nuts for bait its their thing.
Sometimes ignoring someone seeking attention is very punishing for them so unless they go for bodyblock their tbaging is just nice try but wont work on focused killer with experience.
Tbaging has multiple meanings and can be missunderstood just like killer nodding, one guesture with multiple meanings. Still way more toxic than strategy used to win or punish survivors mistake or use killers ability as much as you can like oni.
I think there’s a threshold there. Like you said, sometimes bags or nods can be misinterpreted because they can mean different things at different times. I think slugging can absolutely stop being a strategy and start being toxic. Bleed outs are a perfect example of that. And while bags aren’t very kind most of the time, and they’re used as a mocking or tease in a negative way, they don’t incapacitate you like slugging. I think it’s very different. Especially because the killer version of bagging happens while the survivor is stuck on the ground with nowhere to go. If a survivor is bagging a killer they can at least walk away or turn their head if they don’t want to deal with it. But a killer can essentially just hump you till you die.
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@zonkednb said:
My experience with Jason on both sides has been interesting.
Yes, he's strong. Yes, his kit is bloated. He's still sinking in so I'll not conclude too much.
Playing as him, he just feels satisfying to play. Not much to elaborate on here because I feel most people find him fun to play as, especially now I've had games beyond my one lag-fest PTB experience.
Against him is where it's interesting, because this is where there's more varied opinions - although the forums are definitely leaning more towards the negative. The biggest issue I can see with him is just how long games against him are if he's not winning. I think this ability to stall with high map pressure plus counterplay that forces people off gens has led to the real problem here.
No matter how good you are against Jason in chase, he has far too many chances to get you or a teammate. I've picked up a bit of a knack here or there. One of the main ones is sticking your gen during OE if you have two resources you can make should he arrive. Yes, you'll end up taking chase, but you're the teammate with the best shot at getting away or delaying him significantly. The rest of your team on less safe gens can then keep working. I tried this a few times to pretty decent success.
The problem arises from how forgiving it is to rotate as Jason. So many times I'd make it to a decent loop, and Jason would just drop me. Many other times Jason would drop multiple chases until he found which survivor he was most confident he could two tap, then just did that. Meanwhile, every instance of OE was causing gen slowdown because people have now learned the counterplay but don't seem to be applying it in moderation.
I maintain that he's not OP in a vaccuum, but he's a significant skill/knowledge check to the entire survivor team, so if the team has a weaker link, it becomes very hard to win. I do enjoy playing against him, but even me, a survivor who's honestly not that good, find myself losing less because I'm being taken out, and more because one or two people on my team are getting picked off fairly early.
If anything was to be nerfed, it would be increasing the CD on OE. I think I could handle that as it would force Jason to somewhat commit to the chases he gets. It should at least be about as long as his haste.This is very good advice. After playing against him a lot for the last couple days, I’ve realized that trying to avoid getting into chase during his OE is usually a bad idea. It’s giving him pressure off gens that will bite you in the long run. I know people hate SB but frankly, it’s a great counter to Jason’s style. I will sit on a Gen during OE, then I tap it with blast mine and just wait for him to show up. Then SB away, and take chase. If there’s a pallet nearby the Gen I’m working on that’s already been dropped, I’ll put ChemTrap on it too.
You just have to have a game plan for when he shows up. Staying on a gen knowing he will find me instead of teammates who are maybe injured or have more hook states than me is also good. It kind of forces him to either go after me or wonder around blind in the fog if everyone else is crouching.
Personally I like the added strategy layer his OE gives to survivors, but I feel it requires team coordination which majority of the role doesn’t have. I have the tools to do fairly well against him, but at the same time, I understand him feeling a bit bloated because I have to bring an entire build to counter 1 out of like 43 killers.
I will say that at end game his OE is… basically impossible to deal with. If it’s just you or one other person the game is so painfully slow because you can’t crouch forever to avoid him. And trying to get hatch against him or the gates is really rough too. I’ve managed 1 hatch escape against him in the past couple days with probably 3-4 hour gaming sessions where majority of them are Jason.
Overall, I do find him fun to face personally. I think he could use some tweaks like a cooldown on OE or spear replenishes but I like the added layer of strat he’s brought.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089574#Comment_4089574
Because smart killer knows the best way to punish the tbagger here is to compleate the tunnel and then have more time for him and rest of survivors.
Well I mean, in this case I think the term punishing is a bit harsh. If your teammate is getting tunneled you’re supposed to take aggro. And yeah, most of the time the killer will ignore the person bagging and just tunnel the person out. But I’ve seen them get so annoyed by the bagger that they will leave the person they were tunneling just to stop the bagger and chase them. Which is what the bags are supposed to do; draw attention away from someone else.
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@Equinox_One said:
One is a playstyle. Sometimes there is no way to realistically win other than slugging.
One is a taunt. It has no benefit. You're just being a jerk.
The only time I’ve ever seen bags that I feel do serve a purpose is when someone is trying to get a killer to chase them instead of someone else. I’ve seen killers leave the tunnel just to smack the butts of someone else bagging and it did save the tunneled survivor. But unfortunately it’s not usually used this way.