Bad_Medicine
Bad_Medicine
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@GroovieAshes said:
Aura reveal has been too strong for a long time.
It's normalized and accepted hand holding.
You're right! Windows of Opportunity encourages bad behavior. People path like bots from pallet to pallet just pre-dropping and running without actually learning pallet and window spawns or how to loop well. We should rework it into something else entirely and just keep Five Moves Ahead, since chase is when you need to see where the resources are anyway, it gives you an actually beneficial effect in its increased pallet drop speed, and the cooldown means people have to remember where those resources were, so they eventually become part of muscle memory instead of them running chase on autopilot.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112040#Comment_4112040
Haha, no worries on the delete thing. But I appreciate the in depth response! These are great suggestions. I like to give stuff time to breathe a bit before changing anything, both for playing as and against. So I’m not on the OP camp or the Weak camp.
I do agree this killer is super unique and does require a bit of branching out for counters, which is a good thing! I tend to try and stay away from full counter builds though, only because it’s one of like .. what 49 killers in the game? And if the only way I can ever survive decently against them is to have a very specific perk set up, then I don’t think that’s a good thing. And I’m not saying the judgement is like that , I think it’s simply too soon to know. But I was struggling with finding ways to reset and so it seems like hiding my aura is the best way to do it, and thankfully everyone’s provided some great suggestions to do so. Thank you! Looking forward to trying it all out.
Hard agree on letting things settle, and completely understand not wanting to run a dedicated build. I usually like running a healing build + Dead Hard because… comfort blanket, and it's a universally useful build
until I load in against Plague or Legion, and then I cry a bit and play perkless, minus the Dead Hard. If I wanted to not change my entire build, maybe just Object or Shadow Step, or combine them. Either of them is a really good way to counter aura reads, it's extremely rare that I run against any Killer not running at least one aura perk.Ultimately, run whatever ends up working for you! We both just found avoiding snipes easiest (and chases/games in general a lot more fun) running 'counter-auras'.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111843#Comment_4111843
Ah, that is a good idea. Thank you for the suggestion! Was thinking Shadowstep might also help, at least to be able to heal within it. It should hide auras right?
My sister and I tested The Judgment in customs in the PTB a LOT. I have Huntress at P100 and use a full aura build on her for snipes, orbitals, and two-taps. Trickster at P55, usually a full aura build for snipes and ricochets, newish with Jason as he's freshly added to the game, but snipes and orbitals with a full aura build. My sister also plays Huntress and Jason with full aura builds. Playing against each other, just paying attention was the strongest counter to long-range snipes. As far as builds, I let go of my comfort blanket Dead Hard knowing that it was going to be Exile, Exile, Exile, no Hooks, and stepped out of my comfort zone - or rather, switched the role of my comfort zone.
Object of Obsession - who cares about the aura read every 30 seconds because again, your best counter is paying attention. The big thing is if they're constantly seeing you with auras, you're constantly seeing them, and you'll know if they're aiming at you.
Boon: Shadow Step - hard counter for aura reading, bonus for no scratch marks. Hides the 30 second mark aura read from Object.
Extrasensory Perception - huge radius to see where the Killer and basically everything else is (including totems to boon), but also grants Elusive at-will. Use if you absolutely must cancel the 30 second aura read from Object and there's not a locker nearby, or really any other time you need to just disappear (and/or get info) for a moment.
Fourth perk is dealer's choice, I found several good ones. You could bring Circle of Healing to combine with Shadow Step. Inner Focus would give you even more Aura reading on the Killer (10 seconds every time the Killer deals a health state to any Survivor), and seeing your teammates' scratch marks can help you find someone if you need a heal (or need to heal them). Since you're blessing totems anyway, Overzealous would give you a 10% repair speed bonus (20% if it was a Hex totem). Eyes of Belmont to add 2 seconds to your aura reads on the Killer.
Point is, there's a LOT you can do, and I think a lot of the, "The Killer is overpowered, aura builds are oppressive," sentiment is largely coming from the Killer being new and people still learning how to play against them (the same thing that happens ANY time a new Killer is added to the game), and because of the way the Killer's power works, playing against someone who uses it effectively may very well require stepping away from a comfort build (or set of comfort builds), which I feel a lot of people would rather not do…
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110603#Comment_4110603
The point of this is?
He Abandoned as someone was popping off the Hook with Deliverance (which, Survivors can see each other's perks if they bother to check the match details, now). So technically the match wasn't over, even though, he had been knocked down, but he Abandoned. The person with Deli was probably screaming at their monitor. If the Exit Gates are open and all the Survivors are just waiting around in them, the match is kind of over. Survivors can Abandon when there are second chance perks in play that could turn a game around, but a Killer can't Abandon when there's nothing left to do but wait out four sore winners standing in the Exit Gates to BM? Doesn't really seem like fair logic.
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@Rulebreaker said:
When survivors get knocked down theres no way to advance the game.
When the gates are open the killer can advance the game even if they don't like it.
When survivors get knocked down and cant leave they're at the killers mercy to end the game without eating a dc penalty. As we saw people would simply let survivors bleed for most if not all the timer.
When the gates are open…the killer is still able to force the end of the game still because they still always have agency. At no point is the killer at the mercy of survivors.
If we keep adding ways to quit then eventually the goal posts get moved enough that theres no real game period.
"When Survivors get knocked down there's no way to advance the game."
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They made regular hug tech easier. They made it part of his kit, even. It's much more forgiving. I couldn't do hug tech before because it had to be absolutely frame perfect, and now it's muscle memory. They also coded rebounds and urobending into his kit. Sky Wesker might even be back (but jank and inconsistent and with new invisible walls, which just… no… just bring back OG Sky Wesker, and stop this nonsense with his dash getting stuck on the slightest bit of verticality). A major issue is the removal of dash stepping, which makes insta-hugs borderline impossible to do.
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@DarkStrife said:
I think we need to optimize and have more lobby servers added
They have, it's just that they've decided that the Ohio, Montréal, and London servers shall only be brought online during the most EXTREME of queue congestion, and apparently only for a few hours. I was genuinely surprised when I checked Dead by Queue just now and saw that the Ohio and London servers are FINALLY online (they have NOT been for most of this event, and I expect them to return to their usual 'OFFLINE' status before long). Bringing the Ohio server especially (the one closest to me, that gives me the lowest ping on the extremely rare occasion it's actually on) online usually cuts queue times on the Virginia server by one third to nearly one half the time, and it looked like the Virginia server was trending with probably consistently the worst Killer queue times.
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Same. Racked up a 15 minute time penalty (NO voluntary disconnects, ALL crashes), and can't even play customs against bots, it crashes mid-match or just loading into a game. Verified the integrity of my game files, made sure GPU drivers were up-to-date, made sure BIOS was updated, the works. Had literally none of these problems until the engine update.
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Same. Don't even have to tab out, the game just crashes out of nowhere. Racked up a 15 minute time penalty (NO voluntary disconnects, ALL crashes), and can't even play customs against bots, it crashes mid-match or just loading into a game. Verified the integrity of my game files, made sure GPU drivers were up-to-date, made sure BIOS was updated, the works. Had literally none of these problems until the engine update.
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@Wezqu said:
Dodge or eat the stun like it matters. You made this just an ego stand off and in the end just wasted your own time.
I just want to know if the AFK Crow thing not being added back is an oversight or not, and if not, would like an explanation as to why from someone that actually has said explanation, for the love of god.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072376#Comment_4072376
Not really, I'm just pointing out a flaw in your logic, this won't solve your issue at all. Just admit that, you came in here to complain about a perk you don't like.
The whole crow system would need reworked to account for your method of dealing with the perk, what I'm saying, is why complain when you can come up with another method and adapt?I got a 4k, and stated plainly that I avoided lockers that I knew they were in. The only issue was the one with the crow on it. Literally nowhere did I complain about the perk itself, only that its (extremely fair and honestly healthy) deactivation condition was not restored. You are putting words in my mouth, making assumptions, and arguing in bad faith, and I will not respond to you any further.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072372#Comment_4072372
I never said they shouldn't, I said it wouldn't solve your issue. If you are aware of the new system:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0911QCE21HLT/image.png
You'd be waiting a while in your scenario. So yes reinstate them, but if you're sat camping the locker you're going to accumulate crows slowly anyways.
"Reinstate them."
That's literally what this entire post is about. I feel at this point like you popped in just to argue for argument's sake…
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072369#Comment_4072369
What pressure is there when everyone is dead or gone and the door is open. This isnt about general gameplay loop.
This. This right here. Thus me saying 'a lot of different scenarios'. A Head On stun is plenty of time for a Survivor to run to an open Exit Gate, or to the Hatch, and if you leave to try and find Hatch yourself, you've just given them the chance to find it first. The AFK Crow deactivation was created for a reason.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072362#Comment_4072362
"Free run at the hatch"
Go for the hatch yourself, they can't be in a locker and look for hatch at the same time, or the gate.
It's not "Abused" it goes on CD for at worst 24ish seconds with vigil if they arent moving. So just eat the stun they aren't going to run far that far in the basement.
It's honestly not that big a deal, sure the crows can come back but even then you'd have the same issue you'd just wait out an eternity still for the same result. People like you are the ones who fall for deception and stand at the locker staring at it, remember its 5 seconds and lockers are really laggy atm take like 1 and a half seconds to come in and out right now.How about you give me a reason they shouldn't reinstate Head On deactivation via AFK Crows? What was wrong with that condition?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072340#Comment_4072340
You're playing into Head On if you wait, just go for it, its only a 3s stun which isn't anything to a killer with range, mobility or is 115.
Also toward OP if you've got all 4 survivors in lockers they arent doing gens as quick, considering you sacrificed 3 of them, what's the deal. Seems like a nothing burger complaint lolI'm not necessarily talking about all four in lockers, I'm thinking about things like abusing the lack of deactivation to get a free run at the hatch or a gate or some other resource. And that's the thing, it's too easily abused in a lot of different scenarios. There is literally no good reason to not just reinstate Head On deactivation via AFK Crows.
Edit: I knew to just slug them and give the lockers where they were spamming loud noises a wide berth. I'm thinking about newer players that have to go against people like this. It's also just a huge waste of time. No, I'm not going to just let them go, but they shouldn't get a free pass because a completely reasonable counter mechanic was removed and never re-enabled.
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@azaxydbd said:
wesker techs are exploits, the fact that u needed to reduce fps to be able to do them is evidence, i aint playing wesker because of it, i dont plan to play a killer on low fps just to be good at him. at this point dbd needs rank system and higher tickrate servers to fix the dsync hits and middle ground map rng with gens spread correctly and not too far or too close.
If anything affected by FPS settings is an exploit, I really hope you never, ever use Balanced Landing…
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@ReverseVelocity said:
We know this feature only exists to make hits more visually "attractive" and appear more "legit"
No? It's the reason lunges actually hit Survivors instead of you having to manually let go of the attack key to start a swing.
Ever gone too far past a Survivor while swinging as Chucky? That's because he doesn't have Aim Dressing on Slice and Dice.
Granted the system has its hitches, but it's one of those things that you won't notice it at all if everything's going well, and it'll be obvious when it goes wrong.
I know I said "auto aim" in the video, but I misspoke. I meant aim dressing. They are two different mechanics and serve entirely different functions. From the actual devs…
…and the thread, itself…
@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1093264#Comment_1093264
Probably because there's a very good reason why the cones are different sizes to begin with. I don't know what that reason is, but they made the cones the sizes they did deliberately so they must have had a purpose in doing so.
So, as @Chrarcq stated, the community has been begging them to fix this (or at least make it optional) for actual years, and they just haven't. And, as stated by the devs themselves, it is NOT auto-aim, it does not help you get hits, but it can (AND WILL) rob you of hits you otherwise would have gotten.
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I know I'm going to be odd man out on this, but I've always found playing Survivor overall more stressful and frustrating. I started off playing mostly Killer, then played mostly (about 75%) Survivor for almost a year, and in the past few months I've skewed heavily back so I'm playing roughly 50/50. I got my Survivor main to P100 last Anniversary, I just got Huntress to P100.
For me, a lot of it is just 'The Solo Q Experience'. Sell-outs have gotten really bad in the past year, and it seems like I made a terrible mistake not maining a cute girl because it doesn't matter how well I do in chase, how much effort I'm putting into doing gens, unhooking, healing, etc., if a Feng or Sable or Jill is the other person left and sells me out, I am always getting hooked or Mori'd, and they're getting Hatch. It's extremely demoralizing. There's also, even in solo q, the pressure of failing my teammates, which I know is definitely not the norm for most considering my teammates are a bunch of strangers. (And god forbid I don't play perfectly, then I'm getting chewed up and down in chat because, "P100 plays like trash," from my teammates, but if I play well, then, "P100, touch grass, get a life," from the Killer.)
Playing Killer, if I make a mistake, that's on me and no one else. I don't have teammates whose gameplay is going to suffer for it. People T-bagging at Exit Gates, especially if I was being nice and 8-Hooking, is obnoxious and stupid, but it doesn't feel nearly as bad as running the Killer for three minutes only to go down and see that two of my teammates are lurking for a flashy save, the third is hiding in a corner, and no gens got done. Playing Killer is like vacation time.
…or, it was.
The map rotation the past few months has been so atrocious (orbital/snipe Huntress does not play well at Hawkins, Lery's, and Midwich), and gen speeds are so lightning fast that there are more games where I cannot keep the pressure up because I cannot snipe people off of gens before they pop. MMR is ridiculous on both sides. Playing Huntress I'll get entire teams of baby Survivors that don't even have Tier 3 perks, or I get a 3-stack sweat squad that has four gens popped before I have time to breathe, and it doesn't matter that I go out of my way not to tunnel (which often means, at least for a little bit, ignoring Survivors that make stupid mistakes), slug, or camp, and to rotate Hooks, to make the game as fun and fair as possible - I'm getting T-bagged at the Exit Gates or on the Hatch, I'm getting accused of wallhacking or aimbotting, etc.
Survivor-side, I'm playing solo and duo q and I can't get tome challenges done. Most games everyone is dead at 3 or even 4 gens. I won't T-bag, or otherwise BM, but if I last more than 30 seconds in chase there's a good chance I'm getting hit on Hook or WS'd on the ground or bled out. Roll the dice on teammates selling me out or even doing gens or not.
It feels like, Survivor-side, unless you're playing in a 4-man SWF or the Killer is being exceptionally nice, you're getting steamrolled. Killer-side, unless you're playing a high A- or S-tier Killer and/or running plenty of gen hate, you're getting steamrolled.
I've had more fun just playing in the event mode with things like undetectable Wesker standing in Rift Portals with Insidious, or playing Doctor with a chase build that quickly humbles flashy spammers and then I can choose to goof off and be nice if I want.
Outside of niche and off-meta builds and playstyles, though? It honestly feels like, for the most part, most people aren't having much fun…
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@CrypticGirl said:
With the insta-sacrifice happening if all players are hooked simultaneously (even if someone has Deliverance), it removes the possibility of a comeback even more. And with the return of the go-next prevention system, no one will ever want to play Survivor again.
The new 'Deliverance Curse', not that you're first hooked every time you equip the perk, but that it'll be your first Hook… but you're last in line, so you and everyone else get insta-sacrificed anyway.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972278#Comment_3972278
Yes, this can occur while Survivors are on first hook if everyone ends up being hooked simultaneously. Players are able to use any available methods to unhook themselves (i.e. luck offerings and certain perks) before the final Survivor is hooked, though.
So there is just no chance at all, then, once everyone's on Hook. I've had games where I've managed to pop off and get Hatch. Or someone Kobes and the entire game turns around because it snowballs into unhooks and resets. Did it happen often? No, it didn't… but it was something that could happen, and those are some of the most (positive) memorable Survivor games I've ever played. The sliver-thin chance "miracle" comebacks or escapes, the games with the, "Wow, I can't believe that actually happened" factor. It feels like every mechanic that allows for those really awesome, memorable, crazy moments to even be allowed to occur, no matter how slim the possibility, is systematically being stripped away.
Addendum: The new "Deliverance Curse", no longer that you'll be the first hooked every time you equip the perk, but that when all remaining Survivors wind up on a Hook, it'll be your first Hook, but you'll be the last person in line and get insta-sacrificed, anyway.
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- When all remaining Survivors are hooked simultaneously, they will all skip to the sacrifice sequence.
Even on first Hook? Even with a Luck Offering or Slippery Meat or Up the Ante or Wicked or Deliverance? Was this the solution to people having to hang on Hook with no hope of rescue but unable to do anything because 3+ Survivors were still alive in the Trial and they didn't have a specific Perk or Offering? You just die?
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@Valimure said:
The pallets are the worst power.
The window blocker is what you want to use, it's downright godlike on the right windows and can basically reset a chase back to square one.
Stealth is also super underrated. It's easy to lose a killer in a jungle gym with it.
You have to be very careful with your timing on the window blocker if you "aim" it ahead of you. It 'resets' your momentum for a vault. If you use it far enough back that you'd get a fast vault if you started running from that spot from a dead stop, you get the fast vault. Any closer, and you get a medium vault, even if you've been running in a straight line at full sprint to the window for a good distance. Woe betide if you use it just as you hit the window… then you're stuck, and can't vault for a second.
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@UnicornMedal said:
If a go next feature has restrictions on it for SWF, I don't think it's worth implementing. SWF's stats aren't as impressive as they used to be to warrant it. Either bottlenecking is a problem or it's not.
Honestly? Fair, and, again, with the penalty system the way it is now, if a SWF did try to abuse the system, they'd just be eating each other's ever-increasing penalties every time they went to queue up. Most Survivor players (at least from the most recent stats I can remember seeing) play solo q, but a significant number are also playing duo, which really isn't much easier most of the time.
My sister and I play duo a lot, and there are nights where she can only play a few games because of her work hours. We can barely go a single night without at least one game where one of the randoms DCs within one minute (if that) and then we're just sort of stuck wasting time trudging on to the inevitable loss, because we have to.
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@Elan said:
Killers shouldn't be punished for survivor dcs by playing games against bots (yes they can abandon too, but it gives them - 100 % kills to killrate and mash up the stats). Dcing is a will and abandon is not a feature to replace dc with no penalty. Surely if you don't dc too often, you can dc without penalty too.
That's an issue of how Abandons count toward stats, and should be fixed, anyway.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964906#Comment_3964906
Simple fix — disable the feature for those in a group.
This. Also, with the new penalty system, the entire SWF lobby has to wait out everyone's stacked up penalties from the moment they go to queue up, one penalty after the other. So, if a group was habitually abusing the system, they're going to have to wait longer and longer every time they go to queue up.
[Edited for clarity.]
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Been getting stuttering on and off for months, always at the worst possible times mid-chase. No other games I play online have any problems whatsoever, my internet has been consistently rock solid.
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@Columbus1492 said:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: When triggering EGC, the exit gates switches will flare up in a bubble that blocks auras of the switches, red lights and survivors that are on the door
PLATFORM: ALL
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED:
- Trigger EGC (by closing the hatch or completing all gens)
- Look at any exit gate switch, its bubble will block everything behind it for several seconds
VIDEO:
PLAYER LOGS:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/140KCRBAK3H5/deadbydaylight.log
- Player logs are required from PC players only.
Unfortunately, I believe that all "notification bubbles" do this for all auras and even what you can see with your face eyes… for both sides. It makes Kindred almost useless for seeing the Killer unless someone also has Open-Handed, because unless the Killer is camping (or they have to reload or set traps nearby) they're out of range before the bubble is gone. If the Killer hooks someone and has BBQ and is headed directly for you, there could be direct line of sight between you, you could be looking directly at them but not know because the bubble blocks your view. Same thing both side when a Gen pops, or Killer-side if there's a Loud Noise Notification. It's hard to line up an orbital when you can't even see the Gen aura because someone blew a skill check and there's a giant explosion graphic over it.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951350#Comment_3951350
But you do keep time challenge progress if you abandon, like this is straight from the patch notes.
Then it's bugged. Because every time I have completed a Tome Challenge or even gained progress toward one, but then Abandoned using the Surrender system, I have lost that progress. And it always feels like it's a particularly tedious one, too… Sore Ankles, Blood Debt, Craft Time is Over, etc. I see the notification pop up mid-chase that my Sore Ankles challenge is complete. We get 4-slugged. I Abandon……. aaaaaand the Challenge is not complete.
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@VibranToucan said:
How much do you think a killer going for adept enjoyed 4% into hatch escape? You said you did everything right and got punished, but the 4% meant that the killer could do everything right and get punished. There was nothing stopping you from abandoning, except you would lose a few struggle phase BP. You weren't forced to sit around. You chose to sit around. All they did was take away Survivors ability to get a random escape against a killer who did everything right.
Tell me you didn't watch the video without saying, "I didn't watch the video." Or even read the comment. Abandoning a match loses any Tome Challenge progress you gained during that match. Like the one I'd completed that round that I'd been stuck on for a week. Which is how long it took me to adept Ghostface. It was a nightmare.
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@terumisan said:
that's leon choosing to throw from what you showed mike didn't tunnel or anything but what were the offerings brought in that match?
Leon brought Party Streamers. It was almost all BP Offerings minus a Shroud from Sable, and Myers brought the Map Offering. Pretty sure Leon threw because Steve threw so he knew the match was lost. No idea why he didn't Abandon once everyone was incapacitated, though, unless he was stuck in an, "I don't want to lose the progress on this tedious, godforsaken Tome Challenge," situation like I was, or something.
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@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951321#Comment_3951321
Appreciate your perspective, let me offer a different experience
I've logged around 20 hours of Survivor gameplay since the implementation of the AFK and Go-next prevention update.
Like you, I’ve occasionally been tunneled early, hooked quickly, and at times had minimal time to “perform.” Yet despite this, I haven’t received a single penalty, no crows, no warnings, nothing. That’s my anecdotal experience, but it leads me to believe the system may factor in more than just one isolated match.
As with the DC penalties, which take into account a rolling window of multiple games (e.g. the last 20), it wouldn’t be surprising if the same applied here. If true, then a single frustrating match may not be the true trigger, but rather a pattern.
Was the video you shared representative of a streak of games with similarly brief or low-impact participation? And on a related note: wasn’t the “go next” penalty already temporarily disabled?
Personally, I found this patch one of the most player-positive updates since I started playing back in 2018. Bloodpoint spending is now intuitive and fast, matchmaking feels slightly more stable, and… at least in my matches, I’ve seen far fewer DCs and game throws. I absolutely sympathize if your experience was different, but I think it’s important to differentiate between individual moments of frustration and systemic failure.
Would love to hear more if there’s ongoing evidence of consistent misbehavior by the system.
Here's from the past 30 days, and there were several days where I just didn't play because the game got so intensely frustrating, and then it was actually pretty fun on June 23rd, so I racked up 21 Survivor rounds (same with June 17th, throw in some Huntress rounds as well, but those aren't shown here).
It's just gotten worse over the past 3-4 months Survivor side, though. Sell-outs (and Killers playing to them and giving them Hatch) have increased exponentially. MMR is at the worst I've seen it since I started playing, not just between Survivor and Killer, but among your teammates. If I'm playing with my duo (which usually doesn't go much better than solo q) it's not uncommon to get a Killer that comfortably matches our skill level, but our teammates are babies who are petrified of terror radius which isn't their fault, the tutorial is buns, and this is not a new player friendly game. It's still intensely frustrating and best case scenario one of us gets Hatch. Or, we get a Killer who is obviously new, they're not comfortable with that Killer's power, they're clearly having a rough time, our teammates are jerks and bag at the gates, and my duo and I stay behind to give them Hooks and a Mori. Then we might get a game where everyone is pretty evenly matched, and things could go either way at a moment's notice, and it's tense and engaging and win or lose we savor these rounds because they're fun and it feels like they've become extraordinarily rare. Then it's four rounds in a row where the Killer's losecon is apparently 'let 2 gens pop' and everyone is dead, even without anyone trying to go next or DC, at 4 gens.
This experience is not unique to me. Not even a little bit. It feels like BHVR decided to implement this system without bothering to ask or address why people were going next in the first place because yes, some people are going to ragequit out because they don't like the map or the Killer. They're going to throw a tantrum because their first chase didn't go well. They'll quit on first hook even if it is their first hook and everyone is still alive and there are only 2 gens left and the game was perfectly winnable and now I'm screaming internally because, "Thanks for doing that, now we're screwed."
And then there are the games where I feel utterly helpless and hopeless because there is no way we are going to win. Maybe for the fifth time this month I am being punished for not maining a cute girl when the Jill/Meg/Mikaela/Sable gives their item to the Killer, sells me out, and they spend several minutes griefing me (no, I'm not making this up, it really is that bad, and I'm not the only one who's posted about it) before finally actually killing me, and then the sell-out is given Hatch.
Oh look, the Trapper brought an offering for Basement in Shack, and they're not just a Basement Trapper, they're a Gaff Trapper. Anyone who tries to come and get me is walking into more of a death trap than with the usual Basement Trapper, so I need to give my teammates no one to come and save (when you could actually go next). Cue one of the randoms flashlighting/shaking their head at me before unhooking, and then stepping in one of the string of traps the Killer set up leading up from the Basement and out of Shack while I was being 'scolded'. Soon EVERYONE is going next in the Basement!
Oh, this Knight is targeting me specifically right out the gate, Renato FTP'd me and Meg tried to take hits when he came after me right off the Hook but he completely ignored Meg and he's an Assassin spammer, now I'm deep wounded, can't Dead Hard, and the Killer brought a pre-nerf offering for his best map, I'm 13 seconds off the Hook, down again, and going to Basement.
...so, basically, rounds that felt utterly helpless and hopeless and frustrating far beyond the emotional bandwidth I have left to spare. Not a fickle, "Eh, not feeling it," but, "This is utterly miserable, I feel like I'm a plaything in someone's kill-streak and/or 'This build makes Survivors give up!' video," sort of thing.
And I refuse to be one of those jerks (and there are a LOT more of them, now, since they can't go next!) who goes around throwing every pallet in the map, so now here I am, glad I have over 200 Vigo's Jars of Go Next, and if, god forbid, I thought to bring a BP offering because there was more than a meager 25% bonus and it's another Springtrap whose losecon is "2 gens popped," I can't make myself play well that round no matter how hard I try because I know I'm trapped. No go next, and the DC penalty "overhaul" is buggy and atrocious, too.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951321#Comment_3951321
IIRC, you don't lose your challenge progress/completion if you abandon when everyone is downed/hooked.
If it's a Tome Challenge? You absolutely do. You keep your Emblems and your BP, but you lost 'Match Progress'. I've had a Sore Ankles ("Fall from a great height while being chased by the Killer x number of times") challenge that popped up as completed during a chase but the match ended in a 4-slug, so I Abandoned. Challenge reset to where it had been before the match, and this is not the only one. Every single time I have used the Surrender system to Abandon a match, I have lost any progress I had gained on Tome Challenges.
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@Senaxu said:
It’s rarely the rules that break the game… it’s how people choose to respond to them."
I’ve watched the video and I appreciate that it illustrates a sentiment many have recently voiced: frustration. But I believe the underlying issue here isn’t mechanical or systemic… it’s behavioral.
When players deliberately AFK, refuse healing, or run straight into the Killer out of protest, the question must be asked: is it the game that’s failing… or is it the reaction to not getting one’s preferred outcome?
Imagine a group of students in a university course. In past semesters, if they didn’t like an assignment, they could simply skip it without consequences. Now, the university introduces a rule: if you skip work, your final grade is affected. In response, a few students stop attending class entirely, sit silently in protest during group work, and tell others the system is "unfair"… not because the new rule is broken, but because it removed their ability to ignore responsibility without impact.
This isn’t an educational failure. It’s resistance to basic accountability.
Dead by Daylight, like any multiplayer experience, is shaped not just by its rules… but by its participants. The new go-next prevention system doesn’t punish creativity or freedom; it simply asks for the bare minimum of engagement. And if that’s seen as an imposition, it might be worth reflecting… as kindly as possible… on whether one’s time might be better spent elsewhere.
Just something to consider.
I would like to ask how this system is not broken when I was doing everything right and was still punished by its shoddy implementation.
I unhooked and healed.
I was doing gens.
I engaged in chase.
I was trying to advance objectives, even though we clearly were not winning that Trial.
I followed all of the "rules". Every single one. And my "reward" for doing so was to be given the non-choice of being forced to just hang on the Hook for over two minutes unable to do anything until I died, or Abandon the match and lose progress on a Tome Challenge I had finally completed after being stuck on it for over a week. And, if your answer for everyone unfairly affected by this system is to take their ball and leave? Then you can kiss a huge chunk of the Survivor playerbase goodbye, especially those of us being unfairly punished, and you can enjoy your ever lengthening Killer queues.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950088#Comment_3950088
yeah, again, this relies on the fact survivors are actually going to play into that and not like just gen rush a killer that wasted the entire build on a camping strategy.
and even if they do, it's hardly efficient.
for a camping strat, you make your whole build around, to be efficient it needs to do better than just letting you go back to the hook
it's like trying to claim demogorgon is a broken 3 gen killer because he can place portals on gens and camp them really hard with correct perks yada-yada. yeah, technically he can, doesnt mean he should, it's not efficient .
People staying on Gens and clearly not going for a save? Then they just use the aura read to ambush someone on a Gen. They're probably Plaything'd by that point, and if that person manages to run in time, then the Killer kicks the Gen, applies Trail and Unforeseen to it, and now they can go back and forth between that Gen and the Hook/s to patrol for someone going for save AND someone going to un-Trail the Gen.
Just say you'll blame Survivors no matter what to deflect from legitimate criticisms of a broken design that needs tweaked, and enjoy your ever-lengthening queue times.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950020#Comment_3950020
again, this relies on a very specific timing to work and is just a worse proxy camping with extra steps.
i mean, anything works vs bad players because they'll fall for it but at this point why bother? if anyone thinks they need to play like this, they're only making things worse or memeing
you have not convinced me.
>Can spam teleport back and forth to the area around the Hook or otherwise proxy the Hook with Undetectable during Darkness Revealed's ENTIRE COOLDOWN so they're JUST THERE but out of view and cannot be heard.
And that's only taking into account his basekit Undetectable + Badge (and usually Faz-Coin), not Trail of Torment, Unforeseen, and Plaything, which are the three perks I almost always see these people combine with Darkness.
Their favorite place to do it is the hallway upstairs between the Chief's Office and Art Room, where they have access to multiple doors, there are lockers everywhere, and they can just patrol the rooms around the hallway, especially if they have two people to camp, with a Hook at either end of the hallway. Has already happened at RPD at that exact spot with that exact build four times (no, not the same Killer players), and though it works best at RPD, it's still a very strong and obnoxious strategy elsewhere.
And you can say, "Bad players," all you want, but there's only so much you can do playing solo q or even a duo when you can only talk to one of your teammates or none at all to let them know he's come back again to patrol by your Hook, but never long enough to fill the anti-camp, just long enough to see if there's someone there for a save.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3949896#Comment_3949896
that makes no sense. i dont see the logistics or viability of that.
so you are saying they:
1. hook2. LEAVE through the door
3. Sit OUTSIDE of another door and near locker
4. Proc darkness revealed
5. Actually get lucky to reveal you with the perk because RPD has plenty of places with locker aura deadzones like main hall
6. travel back through the door back to the hook (which takes about 5 seconds)
I dont want to repeat myself, but what stops you from just leaving the hook after pulling the survivor? And while we're at it, what stops you from NOT unhooking immediately and just taking 30-40 seconds to do gens and then just go unhook and leave immediately?
Worst, absolute wost case scenario you just 1 for 1 which is not ideal but it just resets the hook timer, giving your team more time on gens.
As I said, regardless of map, they can still just hook in an area with lockers (there will pretty much ALWAYS be a door within handy distance for them). Darkness Revealed has a fairly long aura read (8 seconds) with a relatively short cooldown (30 seconds). I play orbital/snipe Huntress and keep it in my build at all times. I usually hate indoor maps, but if I go to RPD, I am eating good, because it is a relatively small map and the locker placement usually means I get an aura read on everyone every time I proc Darkness, and if I don't see them I know they're probably in Courtyard or Lobby.
With the speed of Springtrap's teleport (it's 3 seconds, not 5) and his lengthy basekit undetectable (and the Glitchtraps I've played against like to use Badge to extend it to 30 seconds) they just hook, immediately leave, give it a couple of seconds, and then proc Darkness and enter a Security Door. You don't even get a chance to reach the Survivor to pull them most of the time. You get aura read on your way there and Glitchtrap shows up to ambush before you can even even reach the hook to be forced into a trade. It's an incredibly scummy tactic but with his quiet footsteps and the right set-up, it works really well, which is almost certainly why I've encountered it multiple times.
So yes, I'm saying do exactly those things, only it doesn't require luck when you intentionally hook someone in a place with a bunch of lockers so that anyone coming to save them or otherwise near the hook is going to get read for you to show up in plenty of time to get an easy down.
Addendum: If they don't catch someone coming for a save with Darkness, then they just spam teleport to the door nearest the Hook or otherwise proxy camp it with their Undetectable until Darkness comes off of cooldown, and with Badge, they are Undetectable that entire time. Then they just rinse and repeat with the aura read to look for returning Survivors with an ambush teleport.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
that is not true tho?
yeah, he can come back to doors, but unless he PREDICTS when the save happens, he takes time to arrive and survivors can leave the hook by that time.
Sitting in doors near hook builds up AFC so unless you sit in there against solo q players, it's kinda useless and at this point it's a matter of AFC not being visible / telegraphed to other players without comms
so just dont heal under hook or only heal if you have new buffed healing perks to reset in 2 seconds anyways and you're fine.
and lodging axe into the unhooked survivor does let you catch up to them faster, but it's still even hardly as good let alone better than 2 taps other killers can do. Im not going to bring up like blight or nurse, but even same tier killers like deathslinger or huntress can tunnel off the hook so much better AND they can also make unhooking harder.
slinger can spear survivor and HOLD THEM while their BT runs out, huntress can just hatchet-hatchet 2 tap, pinhead can do instadown through BT with original pain and so on.
I think novelty effect of this killer is tremendously affecting this community's judgement of this killer.
I have gone against several Glitchtraps using Undetectable/Oblivious builds + Darkness Revealed with an RPD offering. I know map offerings aren't a guarantee anymore, but a lot of times we end up at RPD, and even if we don't? Darkness Revealed has a pretty long aura read with a relatively short cooldown. They just hook someone close to a locker, leave, proc Darkness Revealed, walk into a Security Door, and they can see the auras of Survivors passing by lockers to come to the hook for the save.
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@GeneralV said:
Greetings, friends of the Fog! I hope this discussion finds you doing well.
By now most of us have already seen that the Go Next Prevention mechanic was killswitched after the disaster that it caused when players got punished even if they did nothing wrong.
But I think that raises the question as to why such mechanic was added in the first place. And the answer may be obvious at first: the "Go Next" epidemic and the sheer amount of games where players decide to suicide on hook.
The answer is correct, sure, but I would like to propose a deeper discussion:
What was the origin of the "Go Next" epidemic? Why did such thing ever existed in the first place, and how did it reach a level so severe that changes were made to fundamental aspects of the game?
And if I were to share my own answer, I would say it was caused by a gradual deterioration of the survivor role. Because let's think for a second about the year I started playing DBD: 2018. Back then the game simply didn't have DC penalties, one could DC as much as they wanted to, with the only punishment being rank-related (the loss of a pip, if memory serves me right). And yet, people didn't disconnect like crazy every single game.
It happened sometimes, of course, especially with OG Legion, but I wouldn't call it an epidemic of its own.
However, back then there was more to the survivor role than there currently is. They still had proper resources, they didn't have to worry about waves and waves of gen-related killer perks, stealth was still a viable playstyle, killers weren't as oppressive, and the list goes on.
But we all know that changed in more recent times. Survivors lost most of what they had available to them, and nothing was really given. They die more often, their objectives are harder to do (due to perks), and generally speaking they have a worse experience. It is a lack of everything, and it seems to me that was the primary reason for the massive increase of hook suicides.
Let me know what you think, please share your thoughts, any feedback is welcome!
Why do you think the "Go Next" epidemic existed?
[Edited for typo.]
First off, I'd like to thank you for opening this discussion at all, and for managing to maintain such a congenial attitude even when things have started to lean a little… less than civil. That's beyond commendable, and I wish I had a fraction of your patience.
Secondly, I'd like to apologize in advance for the novella.
On the topic itself, I started playing a little over a year and a half ago, with what felt like the real starting rise of the "Go Next" epidemic. It always drove me up the walls having someone instantly DC because of the map, or having someone DC or die on first hook when we had been in a good position (all four Survivors alive, 2 gens left, it's their first Hook, we were set up for success).
There were also times when I understood. Someone's getting hard tunneled at 5 gens and it's clear the Killer is determined to get them out of the game as soon as possible, even ignoring teammates trying to body block and take hits. This is one of the reasons I would sometimes go next. I will give any Killer a chance, even the ones I don't usually enjoy playing against. I've had days where the most fun matches I'll have wind up being against a Skull Merchant, or a Knight. And yeah, maybe they get the 4k, but they rotated hooks, the chases were really fun, and everyone actually got to play the game. There was never a sense of hopelessness.
The hopeless and helpless times? The times of unmitigated frustration?
Those were the times I'd go next.
I load into a lobby to where I'm the only person that does a Generator, I wind up in chase, and during the 2 minutes I'm running the Killer I never see on the HUD that anyone is touching a Gen. Then I get downed only to see the auras of all 3 (or at least 2) of my teammates lurking with flashlights, flashbangs, and/or toolboxes. Of course I want out. I want a team that actually wants to play the game, not farm me for flashlight and sabo saves.
I've seen an exponential increase in sell-outs the past 3-4 months. Teammates teaming with the Killer and leading them to other Survivors, only for the sell-out to ultimately get Hatch. Why would I make my checks? Why would I want to stay in a game where I'm going to get BMed and point farmed?
MMR has gotten increasingly worse, not just matching Killer and Survivor, but matching within a Survivor team. Every now and again I'll get a team with a Killer where all are an equal match and things are tense and fun and could go either way at a moment's notice and I savor those matches because they've become extraordinarily rare. More often than not It's mostly a shift between:
- My duo and I get a Killer that is well matched with our skill level, but our teammates are actual babies who are petrified of terror radius until they need to go for an unhook, then they'll run for the save, injured, right in front of the Killer. It's not their fault, they're new, the tutorial is borderline useless, the game is not new player friendly. It's still intensely frustrating, and at best someone gets Hatch because we were hamstrung right out the gate.
- We are (comparatively) the baby Survivors against a Killer who is way above our league, and one person is dead with another hanging on their second hook, and the other two on Death Hook with one slugged with 3, 4, or even 5 gens left.
- The Survivor team is decently matched in skill, but because MMR values queue times, we wind up with someone who is very clearly new at the Killer they are playing. They aren't comfortable using their power, and there's an equal chance they resort to tunneling/slugging/camping in desperation, or they keep trying their Killer power only for our teammates to bag at the gates - my duo and I stay behind to give them Hooks and a Mori, they shouldn't get a trash game and no points because of bad MMR.
- P100 comp Blight who just had a bad breakup and needs to take it out on someone. Everyone is dead inside of four minutes with no gens progressed past 20%.
It's 2, 4, and the sell-outs and teams throwing for flashlight saves that made me go next, because the match was clearly a wash, I would like to move on to one that I can actually play instead of feeling increasingly miserable and hopeless as we trudge toward the inevitable loss.
Nothing has ever cracked me harder, however, than the anti go-next system, itself. In every other 'Go Next' scenario, the round was hopeless. Then, after match after match of being stuck with teammates throwing for flashy saves, getting sold out to a Knight, getting steamrolled by another Knight that got a 4k at 5 gens, getting a Ghoul that got a 4k at 5 gens, getting a lobby of babies that were afraid of terror radius, then a Glitchtrap with an Undetectable/Oblivious build that took us to RPD and relentlessly tunneled and camped, I wind up with this…
https://youtu.be/llR1I7T4Oqc…and I thought, "Okay, fine, I'll just bring Vigo's Jar so if it happens again, I'll at least get the chance."
That's not what happened.
I threw.
I hard threw.
I was the first found and downed by a Nemesis and it set fire to that tinderbox of helplessness and hopelessness and frustration that the anti go-next had just dumped gasoline on, and no it was not logical, and no I am not proud of it, but it wasn't something I had ever done before, and I sure did not go into that round expecting to do it, it just happened, I just needed out of this game entirely, to do anything else at least for a few hours.
…so I end up taking my chances while Nemmy comes back to hit me on Hook for it. I second-phase by the time someone unhooks me, and I just stand there, and yes, I feel bad for my teammates, but also incredibly relieved when I get thrown on the Hook and Sacrificed and can just get out and do something else and I can't help but wonder to myself if that Steve in the video wasn't experiencing the exact same thing.
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@Orthane said:
It actually made slugging less bad. People slugged for the 4k way worse before this mori change. I also think that the solution is simple and I've stated it before, if there are only 2 Survivors left and one of them is in the dying state or on hook, then the Hatch should spawn. Either that or simply revert the changes to stage 2 misses needed to die.
I had to just hang here my entire First Stage without even being able to attempt to unhook myself because there were two other Survivors left in the game. Then Myers came over to my Hook and started slapping me because Leon bled out just before I died so he couldn't get the Mori, like it was somehow my fault that I could no longer just whiff 2 checks and instantly die. And, no… I wasn't going to just abandon, because abandoning loses any progress you had gained on a Tome challenge, and I wasn't going to "un-complete" a challenge just because Sable and I were the only two people that actually decided to play, and the Killer was being that greedy.
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@MoZo said:
SUMMARY OF THE ISSUE: The perk dead hard lights up when it’s not supposed to. It lights up while healthy and while not moving. in the past, dead hard would light up when the user was injured, non exhausted, and actively running. Now, dead hard stays lit up indefinitely until used.
PLATFORM: Xbox Series X
STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE ISSUE OCCURED: I was watching older youtube videos and realized how dead hard lit up only when the user was injured and running. I then went into the live game (9.0.0) and seen that after being unhooked, dead hard lights up indefinitely until used instead of lighting up only when injured and running.
VIDEO:
PLAYER LOGS:
- Player logs are required from PC players only.
How old were the YouTube videos? Dead Hard was always an Exhaustion Perk, but originally activated any time you were injured and running, and when you used it it gave you a forward dash and iframes (you could even dash over Trapper's Bear Traps without triggering them). It got two reworks, one with Patch 6.1.0 on July 19, 2022, which took away the iframes and replaced them with the 0.5 seconds of Endurance, but kept the forward dash "as long as you are injured and running." Then the second rework came with Patch 6.7.0 on April 18, 2023. The dash was removed, and a very, very big caveat was added to Dead Hard - you can only use it after you are unhooked or after unhooking yourself. So, a maximum of twice per trial (or five times, if you have three teammates with Shoulder the Burden who want to meme around it).
I could be mistaken, but I believe the perk being lit up is like Deliverance being lit up - it means you have met the criteria to activate it (have been unhooked/unhooked yourself for Dead Hard, have safely unhooked a teammate for Deliverance), and it will therefor be available for you to use when its conditions are met (running and injured for Dead Hard, on your first Hook for Deliverance).
This is just an educated guess from a Dead Hard junkie that started playing after its reworks. I know I appreciate a clear indicator of when it's available, because Pyramid Head's cages do not count as Hooks for the sake of Dead Hard (or Off the Record or Decisive Strike) and will not light up its icon. It's also a much clearer sign - for me, at least - that I cannot use it than the Exhausted icon, sometimes, like when I'm being affected by a debuff from a less common Killer perk like Septic Touch.
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I really don't have too much of an issue with perks like Pain Res and other Gen hate perks, especially when they're used on lower-tier Killers that really need that pressure. Can they be annoying? Yeah. On certain Killers, especially paired with certain Add-ons + playstyles, they are absolutely maddening, but in isolation I can't complain about a Gen hate perk and honestly think the swathe of nerfs they recently got was pretty stupid since they almost solely hurt lower-tier Killers (which doubtlessly contributed to tunneling and slugging), and I'm saying this as a Survivor main.
I can't complain about most aura perks in isolation, either, since you can usually figure out which ones the Killer has and avoid them… You just have to worry about the new AFK crow system punishing you because you got in a Locker for 10 seconds to dodge the aura read from Friends 'til the End after not getting skill checks on a Generator, or your solo q teammates spam interacting with your Locker or fast jumping in and out of the one next to it because they think you're just hiding for no reason.
Ones I absolutely hate seeing?
Hex: The Third Seal: Before map offerings got nerfed and made secret, if a Killer using this perk did make a map offering, it was always for Midwich, especially before they got rid of the breakable walls for the ramp between downstairs and upstairs bathroom, so everyone would be desperately scrambling to find and unhook someone. Heard struggling above you? Now you have to find the stairs and stay oriented while you work your way to their Hook and hope they don't die before you reach them. It's still the dreaded warning alarm of a potential slugging build, and a possible death sentence for people on Hook. At least old Knock Out doesn't exist anymore to pair with it.
NOED: Can usually smell this one coming from a mile away. Killer's not the best in chase, they seem not entirely comfortable using their power, they're having a hard time getting downs and Hooks. MMR is extremely bad right now, but even before that, when it was less worse, you could basically count on NOED (especially with Frosty Eyes Killers). It's frustrating, and I think it's often frustrating for both sides without the Killer even realizing it. Survivor side you can bust your ass and play really well all game, maybe you're finally going to complete that 'Escape 5 Trials' challenge you've been stuck with for 2 weeks, then, BAM, NOED. Killer side, if they are getting all of their kills at endgame with NOED, they keep crutching on NOED rather than getting better at chase and more comfortable using their Killer power until they wind up going against really good Survivors way more often and suddenly they're getting stomped and having a terrible time.
Deathbound: Weird one, I know, but I blame my solo q teammates for this one. I like to run a healing build, and if I know Deathbound is in play I will very quickly get someone's heal as close to finished as humanly possible. Then I will stop, set my Medkit down, point at it, and point at my teammate, wanting them to pick up my Medkit for the barest tap to finish the heal, themselves. Then they stare at me, refuse to touch the Medkit, and start crouching furiously demanding that I finish the heal. If someone else is healing me, I will hold Shift to force them to stop just before they complete the heal so I can do it myself. Coin toss on whether they are than mad at me for the rest of the match and possibly endgame chat for having prevented them from being Deathbound.
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt: Not in isolation, but because, especially since it got buffed, it's almost guaranteed to be combined with Undying and some combination of Devour Hope, Pentimento, and Face the Darkness. Made immensely worse by the new AFK crow system since you continue to accrue AFK Tokens while cleansing a Totem, only the action of actually fully breaking or booning a Totem counts as having done an objective. So, on top of an incredibly difficult to cleanse Devour Totem, you're going to get crows that let the Killer know you're trying to cleanse it because you're 'taking too long'.
Game Afoot: Another weird one, I know. But almost every time I do see it, here's what happens. I see the Obsession transfer on hit at the start of the match. The Killer isn't really committing that hard to chases, only enough to make sure they get one Hook on everyone. They're really not bothering to damage Gens much, either. There's no sign of Gen hate or tracking perks. I already know what's coming, and I'm desperately trying to break every Totem I can find, but my teammates are cranking out Gens pretty quickly because the Killer is being pretty lackadaisical about harassing them. It's just a show. I have three totems broken when the last Gen pops. The Killer immediately hits the person who popped the Gen, there's NOED, Obsession transfers with Game Afoot, the Killer Moris them with Rancor. I saw this coming and didn't let my teammates heal me off Hook so I'd have Dead Hard. I Dead Hard a hit, the Killer leaves me to go to the Gate where No Way Out just pinged them. I find the NOED Totem, unhook one person, they go unhook another while I go back to break the Totem. I get downed, Obsession transfers, I am killed. One person manages to make it out through the Gate. It just kind of sucks the life out of me the instant I see Obsession transfer at the start of a match, and any remaining enthusiasm bleeds out into a dull, "Just doin' my job, I guess, I'm stuck here, now," as the Killer behavior patterns further confirm what's going to happen at endgame.
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Hatch offering shouldn't be secret ever. It just gives an unfair advantage to whoever offered it. A Survivor offers Hatch? Now they can rat for it with a Key the entire match, and if they die and someone else is left 'last man standing', they'll have no idea there was an offering made to go for. Killer made the offering? Last Survivor left is screwed, because the Killer is the only one that knows for sure where it will be and can be standing on top of it to close it before it even spawns in.
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@chainsawmis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947781#Comment_3947781
The teleports being so close to main objectives is absurd to me. It's totally silent and I can't look at the door screen whenever he's coming out of that door. It would blink red but if the door is facing the opposite from me then how am I supposed to know?
The fire axe giving him bonus movement speed whenever he throws it away. His power being a faster recovery than basic attack. Undetectable lasts way too long. Using the teleport is insanely risky by getting grabbed immediately which no other killer power does. The Glitchtrap skin is pay to win since that skin makes you almost as silent as a injured Ada.
The most despiteful thing about him that he's probably better at tunneling than Pyramid Head. He just waits at the hook, hold his axe ready and the moment you're unhooked, and, at the right moment, he throws his fire axe at you then prompt to grab you or hit you with his basic attack. I am forced to bring Decisive Strike at all times but that's usually not enough when an experienced killer knows what to do.
Agreed agreed agreed. Have now run into multiple Springtraps that will bypass anticamp by just returning to the same door near a hooked Survivor every 5 seconds to check if anyone is coming for a save. It doesn't matter how loud his footsteps are, or even if you can visibly see him (which, right now, you can't for a few seconds), he can just teleport quickly without cooldown. If not blocking a teleport to doors near hooked Survivors, maybe at least give a slowdown (taking more time to walk through the security office), like Xeno takes longer to exit a tunnel or Singularity takes longer to Slipstream or teleport to a Survivor next to a Hook.
Would also be nice if there was at least a little cooldown between you removing the axe from yourself/him recalling the axe from a Survivor (not the environment, just being embedded into a Survivor) and being able to throw it again. If you're in a dead zone you wind up screwed either way on whether to remove the axe. If you try, it slows you down and he catches up to you and grabs you. If you just run to try and chain to the next tile (and good luck in maps like Rotten Fields or Lampkin Lane) he has his 4.6 movement speed without axe in hand… and catches up to you and grabs you. More often than not they hit you with the axe from 4 feet away, and unless there's a pallet within 3 feet, you're screwed. Or they recall the axe and get to throw it again right away for an immediate down.
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Brought this up (along with several other people) in PTB Feedback and it was completely ignored. You should probably be allowed to whiff 2 Struggle Checks and instantly die once all gens are powered to stop your solo q teammates from snowballing into a 4k by making a really stupid rescue attempt (would be nice, I've done that on the regular when the endgame save is the set-up for an obvious death trap, but I'd be more okay with not being able to whiff 2 checks here because if my teammates are going to get killed by doing something spectacularly stupid that is extremely frustrating, but that's on them). You should definitely be able to whiff 2 checks when there is only one other Survivor remaining.
There were half a dozen games in the PTB where I had to just hang on the Hook for what felt like an eternity with 3, 4, even 5 gens left. The two of us are not getting those gens done. Literally the only chance of anyone escaping is for Hatch to spawn as quickly as possible. But, no, I was forced to just hang there while the Killer was given extra free time to hunt for my teammate, find them, and Mori them.
And then the aforementioned situations where the attempted self-unhook is the only chance you have. Are they super common? No. But I'll never forget a Plague at Haddonfield that hard tunneled and slugged at 5 gens losing her 4k because I got that 4% unhook before my two remaining teammates hit Sacrifice and by complete chance I ran face-first into the Hatch. All three of us were on a Hook. The other two Survivors were on second stage and died at the same time. With the new rules, because I had no perk or offering for it, I'd have simply had to hang there with no chance of rescue until they died, only to get Sacrificed as well.
I've had multiple other instances where I'm on first Hook and there is no way for anyone to save me, or teammates refuse to save me (a problem that has increased exponentially in the last 3-4 months), and now I just have to hang there unless I waste a perk slot or offering.
I've already been getting teammates who want out of the game that bypass this contrived system by running around throwing every pallet, fast vaulting/jumping in and out of lockers, dropping flashbangs, intentionally blowing every skill check on a gen, etc. Yes, of course people did it before, but not in the sheer frequency I'm seeing now.
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Literally the only thing that needs changed about Dead Hard is the server-side hit validation. I'm tired of getting downed mid-animation because the Killer has the McDonald's Wi-Fi brand Coup.
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@hermitkermit said:
To be honest in my matches with him I never take the axe out. Whenever I tried to I always ended up going down because it would slow me. I treat it kinda like the Ghouls 1st hit. Many times it may come out of no where but I just accept that I’m now injured and try to focus on wasting as much time as possible. When I’m in chase and I keep the axe in, I usually last much longer cause I just ignore it and focus on distance. Instead of the grabs, what gets me messed up more is when he recalls it and then instantly throws it at me when I have made distance on the other side of a pallet or something lol
That's one of the biggest annoyances in chase. I do wish that there was a little bit of cooldown or an actual "wind-up" that took a little time when he recalls an axe that was embedded in a Survivor, at least if he's within throwing range of them. It sucks just getting insta-downed because you were caught chaining tiles, or it was simply a dead zone.
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Honestly, in my experience, Ghostface as a Killer really isn't overpowered (try Adepting him, it's a horrible time). There's definitely some jank that should be fixed (see: revealing him when you don't mean to even if you've turned away so he isn't on-screen), but in my experience he's miserable because of a chunk (definitely not all, but damn do I seem to be unlucky) of his playerbase. I don't even believe in reincarnation, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that in some past life I kicked almost every Ghostface main's dog, or something.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945504#Comment_3945504
It's not your fault that the killer meta makes survivor an absolute hell on earth experience, nor is it your fault for wanting to win. But at a certain point, do you REALLY need that 3rd or 4th slowdown perk? Do you really need to try out the latest content creator build that "makes survivors give up!!!!!" to see it for yourself? People want to play the game. These metas prevent at least one survivor from really playing the game. God forbid you get a 3k instead of a 4k. Heavens to Betsy if you walk away from a match with a 2k. Survivors queue up with a 60% chance of getting sacrificed, and a 25% chance of not really playing the match if the killer decides to play meta. Killers load up and wonder how many 4k win streaks they can get. Do you see the difference?
There it is, fam, pretty much the only reason I've gone next: A Killer has made an incredibly miserable and oppressive playstyle so obvious so quickly (I'm talking one person tunneled out, one hanging on their second hook, and another in chase that's dead on hook with 5 gens still left, 4 if we were lucky) that it is clear to all that the match is a complete wash that we were not meant to actually be allowed to play. The other time is when you get sell-out teammates that the Killer decides to join (a problem that has increased exponentially over the past 3-4 months) and point farm with, but I don't main a cute girl, so after I looped the Killer for 2 minutes while no gens got done, I just get left on first hook to die and get to enjoy watching the auras of my teammates while they point farm with the Killer, and there's nothing I can do about it.
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"Skill issue. Just learn how to loop him."
I've tried. Even at the small, crappy loops that people say are a hard counter for Ghoul. With MfT Haste and Resilience, hugging the loop as tightly as possible. It doesn't matter. I vault the pallet, I get grabbed, and they vault the pallet so fast that I can't even make it back around a little 2-second loop fast enough to get over the pallet, I get downed mid-vault. Best luck I've had is looping Main Building at Toba. I've had a few leave me. Sometimes I flat-out screw up, and then there are the times when I'm running a loop perfectly, but the Killer is really experienced which would be fine except for the insane fast vault if they grab you over one while Enraged (which is all the time) and the borderline nonexistent cooldown to M1 after they cancel their power. I'm willing to admit when I screw up a chase and I do... a lot. What I'm not a fan of is running a loop as well as humanly possible and still getting downed in 30 seconds because of two mechanics that are still absolutely broken in chase.
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-Know the Killer's only tracking perk is Friends 'til the End
-I am the Obsession-
-Three of us are on a Gen
-I hop off the Gen to get in a locker as someone is hooked so the aura read doesn't bring the Killer over before the Gen pops
-Get out of the locker to go for the save
-Have to run all the way across the map for the save
-Get 2 idle crows as I'm running