hermitkermit
hermitkermit
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I don’t really think there’s any connection between a game being competitive or casual and people using exploits or having cheaters.
Are you saying if a game is casual, people just wouldn’t take advantage of something if it’s there? Because If there’s an easier way to do something, a lot of people are going to take advantage . That’s just player behavior, nothing to do with the type of game.
You see this everywhere, people use exploits all the time. Games like StardewValley, Pokémon, The Sims, even something like Animal Crossing has exploits.
And cheating is the same way. People cheat in all kinds of games, even ones that are meant to be chill or for kids. It’s not about the game being competitive, it’s just that some players will always look for shortcuts or ways to get an edge. Exploits or cheaters doesn’t automatically mean a game is competitive, it just means that humans are playing the game. Monopoly, Uno, Candyland, not even children board games are immune from people who try to cheat.
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I’ll do it if it seems like they’re the only person actually contributing. Though I do have an affinity for Dwight so if my games with one, as long as they’re cool, I tend to always let the Dwight go after 2 hooks. I think that’s pretty common though for a survivor or killer to really love a specific character and therefore “throw” for that one. Not necessarily in the realm of reverse tunneling I guess but still along the lines of picking a favorite!
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076175#Comment_4076175
Regular games you will get the same 3 killers over there lol…Just switch back to 2v8 when you are tired of that.
Haha well it may just be an MMR and time of day kind of thing. I know many experience facing the same ones in regular mode but I really don’t have that issue. I get a pretty good spread, in fact I’ve faced more pigs in the last 2 weeks than Nurses or Blights. I’m a lucky duck in that regard it would seem.
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I’ve been playing a fair bit, but honestly it gets tiring facing the same killers over and over, in my matches it’s been mostly Oni, Hillbilly or Dracula. I think I may just head to regular games for a bit for some variety but I can admit if BP was increased it’d definitely help me play more.
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I think it really just depends on the kind of person you are and what you’re hoping to get out of the game. If you felt a certain type of way about the game before you left, more than likely those same things you found frustrating still remain. Meta hasn’t changed, players haven’t changed, annoying tactics/playstyles/perks haven’t changed.
That being said, based on the statistics and actual data/evidence, the game is in a good spot for both roles. Kill rates are healthy and escape rates are healthy, as far as their intended targets.
So again, I think it just depends on what you personally need in order to enjoy the game ya know? If it’s any consolation I just came back a few months ago after a very long break as well. And despite the lack of changes I personally really wanted, I am enjoying myself. Maybe just play a few matches and see how ya feel! :)
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Yeah, looking at the value doors are competing with which is gen value, they just aren’t equal. It’s not really worth it to hop off a Gen run to a door, get on a camera and cycle through until you find him just for a short reveal for someone else vs saving that time and putting it to work on a gen. I’m all for making the doors having more of an important role but there’s just not enough value to do it over a gen.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074933#Comment_4074933
im not sure why you think its a good thing that any time killer players try adapt to the meta they get nerfed
I don’t feel as if that can be comparable. A big reason people advocate for slugging is because it has the ability to completely deny several perks from ever even activating. If fast track was deleted tomorrow people would still advocate for slugging because 2nd chance perks exist, if those were deleted then because toolboxes, if toolboxes gone, then healing perks or med kits etc. Slugging is not about denying 1 perk, it’s about denying as many perks as possible. It shouldn’t be possible to be able to deny around 20 perks - ever. Especially by a tactic that doesn’t even require a perk to use, but a perk to counter.
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It’s the internet I’m afraid. Rude behavior from strangers has been well documented since the internet’s conception. Don’t take it personally, it’s not just you, it’s not just killer, and it’s not just DBD. It’s the internet.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
A lot of what y'all are calling "bashing" is actually just fair criticism of players who are:
A) consistently breaking the game's rules (harassment and repeated disconnecting) and/or
B) blaming the game for their shortcomings and requesting balance changes based on their own lack of skill, knowledge, or understanding.
Yes, it's been dressed up with clickbait titles and thumbnails, but a lot of the content I've seen referenced here is actually pretty moderate and well-reasoned if you listen to them.
The reason there's been a spike in this content is because average Survivor skill is nearing an all-time low, but there's no desire from a lot of these players to actually improve. Instead, when they encounter hardship, a concerningly large % of the Survivor playerbase just disconnect or give up in the hopes that if enough matches are ruined, the developers will be forced to change whatever they dislike. These players saw how effective the "give up en masse" strategy worked with Skull Merchant and they've since extended it to any and all minor inconveniences, to the point that matches without give ups/trolling/disconnects are becoming increasingly uncommon.
They're not bashing Survivors per se, but rather the culture that has been created where constant giving up and harassment of your opponents is seen as normal and justified. Ragequitting is so common in DbD that the community even has their own euphemism for it to make it sound more acceptable (and overlook that it's actually a rulebreaking behaviour): "going next". It just so happens that the majority of players perpetuating these behaviours are Survivors, hence the titles, but these behaviours are certainly not exclusive to just them.
I’ve seen the claim that survivors are getting worse overall, but I don’t really see how that can be proven, especially when the available data doesn’t support it.
If survivor skill were actually declining over time, then those escape rates would drop. But they haven’t, they’ve stayed stable or even increased slightly compared to previous years. That alone feels like it disproves some kind of widespread drop in survivor skill.
On top of that, the game has only gotten more complex over time. Every new killer adds another power to learn, new perks, and often new maps or mechanics. The overall knowledge requirement for survivors keeps increasing year after year, meaning the game gets harder.
And unlike killers, survivors don’t control what they’re facing. A killer player can specialize, put hundreds of hours into one character, learn every matchup from that perspective, test things in customs, and refine their play in a controlled way. Survivors can’t do that. They have to adapt on the fly to whatever killer they’re given no matter how often or how little they’ve faced them. Everyone’s experience per killer is also different, you could be in the same MMR but could have faced a certain killer less than half the amount of times than the person next to you, which again, adds to the difficulty.
And that leads into another point, survivors are not designed to win as often as killers. The game is asymmetrical by design, and the target outcome is for higher kill rates than escape rates. So if survivors are performing within that intended range, which they have been years ago and they are now, it doesn’t make much sense to turn around and say that’s because they’re “worse players.” They’re performing within the system they’re designed for.
We already acknowledge that most survivors are solo, we already acknowledge solo is the weakest state in the game by design. So it feels strange to me to recognize that structural and intentional disadvantage and then attribute the outcome to player skill instead?
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Honestly I’m not a fan of full team slugging, as I think it goes against the entire structure of the game and bypasses main mechanics. The fact that you can bypass multiple perks from ever even activating is not a good thing. The fact you can keep someone incapacitated on the ground for 4 minutes until death is also not a good thing. The fact that there are no repercussions for full team slugging is not a good thing. However, that’s not on the killer player it’s on the devs. So truly, even though I strongly don’t support that kind of playstyle, if it happens enough, maybe it will shine a light to the devs about how abusable it can be, and changes to slugging will be made. If you’re gonna do it, do it. I would just say don’t be surprised if it has consequences that result in another kind of anti-slug being implemented in the main game, just like it had to be for 2v8.
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For purely petty reasons, survivor wise it’s probably Bills. He’s just SO loud. No hate to the actual character but the audio of him coughing nearing a heart attack drives me nuts. Killer, probably Dracula, only because the wolf form is consistently used to hump people. It’s never a good feeling when it’s a regular human kind of killer but something about it being a literal dog just makes it extra gross and inappropriate to me.
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Unfortunately there’s not really any way to know this without being explicitly told. The games tutorial doesn’t go over this kind of stuff, and the rules of the game keep changing.
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I would love this, so much potential. A Tryx MiNa skin would be really cool too!
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Looking forward to it! I love all the cosmetics, knocked it out of the park.
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@AerinRockstarTTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069081#Comment_4069081
It always goes back to behaviour not adding killer bots.
Indeed. They really should be added, both for these abandon purposes and so that survivors can practice against killer bots in custom lobbies.
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I do think it is kind of funny how they censor chat when the game is rated M. Totally fine to see detailed animations of people getting brutally murdered but say a bad word and that’s too far! Lol
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Sadly not new. What truly bothers me about it is how many times the people who make these videos are in the creator program. I would think if someone was going to represent my brand, I’d ensure they were coming in good faith and not trying to divide the community further. What’s truly ironic is most of the things these content creators say that are supported in the program would get banned on this very forum because it goes against the rules. But when moneys involved I suppose that all goes out the window.
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@TamaraLatte said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073301#Comment_4073301
I didn't say slugging wasn't within the rules, I just said it's too much hard work in solo, so I go AFK. He uses that perk that makes the people close scream, so he just steam rolls.
I went up against that exact Billy build. Had the super hero cosmetic. Solo Q so you know, instant death. But I suppose It’s what’s come to be expected if you play solo.
Wishing you better gameplay in the future that doesn’t involve staring at the ground!
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Every killer is viable for sure. You can dedicate yourself to any killer and became a total beast with them, which is why you can typically find kill streaks no matter if they’re m1 or not. But some killers require much more time to get the same results as others with less. I think that’s where a lot of the frustrations come from. I get that it can be annoying to I have to work so hard just to get the same results another killer can get with ease, but that’s where alot of skill comes in, in my opinion. It’s good that not all killers are scaled the same. Someone that gets a 30 win streak on Ghoul compared to someone that gets a 30 win streak on Ghostface showcases a different kind of skill and success. I’ve definitely faced my fair share of ghosties that dominate the entire match because the player is really skilled with their kit and knows how to play in the best way for that character. It’s always an honor to see em! But I wouldn’t be opposed to ghostie getting a few more buffs.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072217#Comment_4072217
I am sorry but your point again does not make sense when there is no killer perk with same level of value than WoO gives to survivors that is on 100% of the match. I have stated this already several times and only counterpoint is people talking about skillful usage of perks that literally is same on all perks all of them demand skill to use well. I am done debating this as I don't see this going anywhere. I have made my points why it needs a nerf and so far have not got any counterpoint of why it shouldn't. Even those here who posted of defense of the perk are just giving even more reasons why it should be nerfed as their argument are just proving that its not healthy to the game. I know I am maybe yelling in the wind but I know I am correct in this opinion and I am not the only one who considers this perk a problem.
I get if you feel the discussion isn’t going anywhere, but disagreeing with counterpoints doesn’t mean you haven’t been given any, I’ve already explained why I don’t think the perk is unhealthy you just don’t agree.
You acknowledged that permanent aura-reading on survivors would be stronger than Windows. So using that as a reason to say Windows is too strong doesn’t make sense. Because out of the two options, one being windows and one being 100% aura on survivor, windows is the weaker of the two, which you admit to but also still want the weaker version of the two to get nerfed, making it even more weak.
At that point, the argument falls back on the same criticisms used for killer aura perks and windows, both give information, but both still take skill to actually get value. But you’ve already said those are fine for killer because they require skill to use, but not for survivor?
It just feels like a big double standard. So the question of why a skill-based perk that mainly helps solo queue should be nerfed for reasons you’ve already dismissed on the killer side remains unanswered.
I appreciate your perspective, even though I disagree.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072197#Comment_4072197
To survivor windows and pallets are your life line they might not be as valuable as seeing survivors as killer but very close to it. In the end they are most valuable asset survivors have and that can't be denied. I am not asking any difference just that a perk that is clearly not healthy for the game to be brought to healthy level. I would never even want a perk that would show survivors auras 100% of the game but still why survivors need to see pallets and windows vaults 100% of the match either?
I don’t agree that it’s unhealthy for the game. SWFs don’t need a perk like Windows because they just call out what’s been used. Nerfing it would mostly hurt solo survivors, especially newer or more casual players who don’t know map layouts or tile spawns yet.
Yes, pallets and windows are valuable resources, but they can be wasted completely outside of your control. Survivor already has plenty of built in punishment through teammates mistakes, and burned resources are part of that.
If we agree that killer aura-reading perks are fine because they still require skill to use effectively, then I don’t see why Windows should be treated differently. Killers also have constant access to strong aura-based information without perks like generator auras, which allow for early 3-gen setups, and hook auras, which help with positioning and map pressure. Those are meaningful resources, and they’re freely available. So when you say they’re not comparable, but also agree the criticism between Windows and killer aura perks is the same, the standard being applied to each role isn’t really lining up.
So why nerf a skill-dependent perk that mostly supports solo queue, when it’s being criticized for the same things you’ve already said aren’t an issue for killer aura perks? -
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072193#Comment_4072193
Every perks strength depends on the individual using it that is not an excuse to keep a perk that literally is most picked and is shown to be highly powerful to not be changed. Like if this would be a killer perk most people would be making thread every week complaining about it but when its a survivor perk its somehow totally fine to be very strong and should not be touched.
I’m sorry but I don’t think that being able to see windows or pallets at all times would be comparable to a killer being able to see a survivor aura at all times. Im open to hearing your perspective on why you may believe differently. But seeing a survivor aura 100% of the time, in my opinion, is much stronger than seeing windows/pallets. I feel like it makes sense why it’s not 100% of the time, because it would be way too strong. And I thought you agreed that killer aura was fine because it still relied on skill. Why are the standards so different?
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072191#Comment_4072191
Yeah and that is the strength of the perk it gives really vital information without any downside. Thats why as I said make it work when you are injured and it still gives you huge value but only when you most need it.
I just don’t think it needs the downside, especially since you have no control over what resources are used or when it happens. The perks strength depends entirely on the skill of the individual. If we can acknowledge that killer aura perks like Lethal, Friends Till the End, nurses calling etc. are fine because they still require skill of the killer to take advantage of them, I really don’t see why windows of opportunity is held to a different standard.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072181#Comment_4072181
So now you change it to survivor auras that I might agree but there is no killer perk that shows them all the time. Windows is on from start to finish of the trial it has the biggest up time and value than most other perks that are on from the start to finish. For example Zanshin the killer equivalent is also not comparable to it in value.
I hear that, but I think it’s off set by the fact that there’s only 1 killer, so there’s not a chance of another teammate using a resource without you knowing about it. Windows is the best way to know what resources are still available because you have no control over that.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072177#Comment_4072177
Those two aura abilities are noway comparable at all. Windows needs a nerf and I already gave a good option earlier in this thread to how to nerf it and make it different from the new perk they added with Kwon.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Similar to Killers seeing survivor Auras with various perks, that’s great information but it doesn’t mean anything unless you have the skill to actually get the down.
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Windows gives you very valuable information for sure but it still relies on the skill of the player. Just like seeing auras of generators gives a killer valuable information, but it’s up to the skill of the player to defend those gens.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4071834#Comment_4071834
I'm sorry that you feel this is a us vs them as though no legitimate issue could possibly exists between two factions in a PvP game. I never called one side "evil" and understand fully both sides can be #########. But take note that the rolls are lopsided to allow one side to be shamed to play a certain way. I've seen post of killer player down right apologizing and asking for forgiveness for tunneling or camping. When was the last time you saw a survivor player do the same? All I see are post about why its virtue to quit if the killer doesn't play the way the survivor demands.
Here's one just today: S tier killer camps hook till death.
Before you go anecdotal/personal experience, remember that your personal experience is also anecdotal and not reflective of the community as a whole. You and me may not give a damn what others think about our play style but there are many that get bombarded by post/outside game harassment for simply playing a role as intended. Saying it doesn't happen or to not talk about it because it may make a us vs them argument is ignoring someones actual experience for your ideal view.
I’m not saying these things don’t happen. I’m saying they happen regardless of role.
You’re framing this as if toxicity is primarily a survivor issue, and you’ve openly admitted to generalizing based on your own experience. Personal experience can explain your perspective, but it doesn’t justify broad harmful claims about an entire role of which thousands of people are part of.
And yes, I have my own experiences too, but I’m not using them to label the entire killer role as toxic. That’s the difference.
There are just as many complaints about killers tunneling as there are about survivors gen rushing. Both roles influence each other. A killer that slugs creates pressure for survivors to adapt, just like survivors going for constant flashy saves create pressure for the killer to adapt. That dynamic goes both ways. That’s the rhythm of the game.
The same applies to criticism around perks and playstyles. Survivors get just as much flak for playing certain ways or using certain items/perks. Invocation perks, boon builds, No Mither, syringes, stealth playstyles, second chance perks, all of it. People have been labeled as rats for using Distortion, criticized for “holding W”, pre-dropping, using windows of opportunity is considered “skill-less and brainless” by some killer and survivor players alike.
Killers get criticized for slowdown, tunneling, camping, perks. Survivors get criticized for gen rushing, stealth playstyles, looping, and perk choices. This isn’t a one-sided issue like you’re claiming.
Both roles give and receive criticism. Both roles deal with toxicity. And players who act that way in one role don’t suddenly change when they switch to the other, they’re just bringing that same behavior with them.
They’re not a jerk because they’re a survivor and they’re not a jerk because they’re a killer. They’re a jerk because they’re a jerk.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069962#Comment_4069962
I'm speaking in generalities not absolutes. Because I didn't go out of my way to say some killers do it too doesn't invalidate my point.
One side does dictates how the other should play or they become toxic in ingame chat or worse harass outside the game. Other times they DC, give up at the slightest inconvenience, or sabotage their team. That one side is greatly survivor. And just for you, yes there are killer mains who do the same but they are the exceptions and often ridiculed by the community when found.
The issue is that your argument still relies on generalizing one role as a problem, and that’s what I’m trying to explain is harmful.
Framing it as “mostly survivors” but “exceptions on killer” blatantly pushes an ‘us vs them’ mindset. It shifts the focus from individual behavior to blaming an entire group, which you’ve already acknowledged you’re generalizing.
Toxicity isn’t tied to roles, it’s tied to people. A player who is toxic as a survivor doesn’t suddenly become a kind player when they play as killer, and the same goes the other way around. One role is not “evil”, the players that are jerks in one role are jerks in the other.
No one needs the “other side” to start being toxic first before they are. A jerk doesn’t need a reason to be a jerk, it has nothing to do with being a survivor or killer.
You can absolutely speak from your own personal experience, because it’s important, but you have to accept that it is just that; your personal experience. Not presenting it as a general truth for the entire player base. Taking anecdotal/personal experience and using it to justify harmful and negative generalizations for thousands of people because of which role they’re playing is exactly the kind of toxicity that you’re accusing others of perpetuating.
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Congratulations! 🥳
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I really like it, actually. It can be very confusing, kind of like a maze but I don’t think it’s any more confusing than other busy maps are like Hawkins or Lerrys. So totem spawns can be tricky and that’s good and bad. I think visually it’s great, I love the exit gates are actually stations. Had fun on this map as ghostie, lots of corners and hidey holes.
I can see it not being everyone’s cup of tea, as everyone has preferences, but this map doesn’t strike me as problematic in all honesty.
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It may be because of the event. I find that most people try and farm during events more than the regular game mode, as events are typically more “fun” or “casual”. I myself farm as killer during events cause frankly it’s really easy to rack up lots of points for everyone. But I understand not everyone wants to play that way. If it’s driving you totally bonkers, you could try swapping to the regular mode for awhile. If not then just keep doing what you’re doing, and get a 4k. If they don’t wanna play then they don’t wanna play but that’s not on you. If you don’t wanna farm then you don’t gotta. Dont feel guilty.
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@HaliAndEx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070967#Comment_4070967
I heavily disagree. I think DBD, just like every other game, should have maps where some characters excel in and others don't. Never mind the fact that this somewhat shoots the devs in their own foot? Everyone knows that people prefer to play killers with mobility, the maps that the devs spent money and time on would just go to waste because they would be played on much less compared to others because the killers that are being selected don't have mobility.
Then you could run into counterproductivity issues. A good chunk of smaller maps have a lot of visibility obstruction. Ranged killers like Huntress or Deathslinger would be hurt if a map scaling update was implemented. This doesn't even factor in what constitutes as a small, medium, or large map.
Would Midwich be considered a large map? It's shape and two-story gameplay can definitely make it feel that way to a killer like Trapper, but the combined square tiles doesn't even break 115 sqT. In short it is good on paper but this game has way too many variables for a feature like that to be implemented.
I could understand that perspective, and we may just fundamentally disagree. I understand wanting to keep the chaos and fun in DBD, but I don’t think that maps should have as much of an impact as they currently do. Take someoene like Trickster for example, if he’s tossed in an indoor map, he is already at a significant disadvantage regardless of any kind of input from the player. And in the reverse, if survivors are tossed in an open map against trickster, already at a significant disadvantage. In both scenarios one is unfair to Trickster and one is unfair to survivor.
If game balance is important, which to most players it is, then map balance is an important factor in that. I disagree that if trapper players knew 100% that they wouldn’t get stuck on a gigantic map, that it would dissuade them from playing trapper. I feel the opposite would happen, if they knew that because they’re playing a killer who lacks mobility that the map would be smaller to compensate, I feel it would make people more comfortable with playing that killer. So I don’t feel as if the devs hard work on maps wouldn’t to waste. Maps should be a strong foundation for that specific killers powers and counters, not a detriment to either. All killers are viable, but maps can tip those scales within seconds of loading in. I don’t think they should make more of an impact than an individuals skill.
In any case, thanks for offering a different perspective so respectfully even if we don’t agree :)
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Personally I feel that maps should be scaled with killers. Those that have teleportation or high mobility should only get put on medium/larger maps, and those that don’t have any kind of traversal should only get put on smaller maps. Pallet density would ideally be adjusted depending on the killer as well. But I know this is all pretty wishful thinking especially considering how.. sensitive the code is lol.
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@Gardenof_Eden said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4070415#Comment_4070415
Well, while that is true I didn't say you had to stay in one place. most survivors walk the outer perimeter of the map and crouch. Running here and there or going in and out of a locker to prevent crows. There's ways to be mobile and hide at the same time. Which in the case of the original post is more than likely the thing to do when they are slugging like that.
edit: Also, love how people downvote and then don't post why lol. It's not like I was incredibly wrong in my original post. Plenty of people have had to do just that in those moments. myself included. Kinda wish when people disagreed with something though they'd give some sort of response and actually contribute to the conversation.
I can explain why I downvoted, only because I simply disagree. When the option is to simply give up to bleed out and die yourself or wait for the other person to, I don’t agree that it’s ‘not really that bad’. Those games are some of the worst negative experiences players can face. Including the option to abandon while slugged or repeatedly slugged seems to even acknowledge this, as there’s no appeal to playing a game where you slowly bleed to death for 4 minutes. So, respectfully, i disagree with the sentiment that it’s not really that bad and you just need to bleed out and die.
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Just wanted to send some appreciation for taking the time to really break this down. It’s very impressive. Thanks for sharing!
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069431#Comment_4069431
The reasonable person does say play the way you want. But this is DBD, where reasonable is drown out by the irrational..
Tell me, which side gives up the moment the other side doesn't play the way they want? Statistically, because we know both do but one does it far more and believes it to be a right.
The game is ten years old and during those ten years it's been nothing but tunneling, camping, running these perks. Yes, killers complain about survivor perks, but do survivors call out other survivors for using broken perks? Because I've only really seen killers calling other killer bad for "needing" slowdown or "needing" to tunnel to win. Show me a survivor calling a survivor perk a crutch.
There's a reason why The Survivor Handbook on Playing Killer is a meme. Survivors love to trash talk killers for playing a certain way. A lot of Steam profiles had to go private due to it.
I think it’s important to remember that you, and me, and anyone else is limited by our own experiences. I am not going to accuse you of lying when you say that it is always survivors in your experiences that act poorly. But surely you can understand how speaking in absolutes like that is very divisive, especially when other people, such as myself, experience poor behavior from players no matter which role. And while everyone’s experiences matter, they’re just pieces to a large puzzle we can’t even see. To push this kind of idea that “x role = bad” is harmful, it oversimplifies and creates unnecessary division.
I am sorry to hear of your frustrating experiences and I wish you better games in the future. But generalizing an entire group like that is the kind of mindset that’s been wrong in every context it’s ever shown up in, not just here in a video game.
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@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069457#Comment_4069457
I have seen Mandy respond in the past on the forums that farming is a gray area. Basically, it's not reportable in itself but if a player is forced to participate then it becomes reportable. This is what seemed to happened to the OP from their description and that's why it is reportable.
Of course , I'm not Mandy so will let her confirm for you.
Personally, I don't mind seeing it if the killer plays normal but then switches to farming once we are all on death hook. The ones I find boring are the killers that do nothing all match and stand around watching you do gens.
Got ya. Yeah I would never force them to farm if they didn’t want to, and I normally only ever do it specifically if I’m trying to do a challenge or something. Mostly for event stuff. Like I’ll slap the hook a few times and they understand I want some hooks and then they line up in pretty little rows and let me get em haha. And then I’ll let them get some pallet stuns or wiggle out etc.
In any case, I appreciate you letting me know your thoughts. I think until there’s some kind of official stance on it, I’ll just do what I do unless specified it’s not allowed. I haven’t ever had anyone not want to participate, so hopefully that remains to be the case. I never wanna upset people by it, but thankfully people seem grateful for the breather.
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I really don’t agree with the idea of being able to see the killer before the game starts. For the reasons you listed above along with the fact that it just feels unnecessary. Now it can be very frustrating to load into a match and your build is rendered useless, can’t say how many times I’ve run full healing only to be matched with plague or legion. But, that’s a risk that both roles take, and I like that factor.
Luckily I’m certain that any kind of indication of killer won’t happen until after the match has already started, not in the lobby. Wether or not there should be any indication of the killer at all until a certain game state hits is up for debate, but that’s what the PTB is for so we can all see how it plays out.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4069457#Comment_4069457
Farming normally is fine. It's only not okay if you're forcing someone to farm. There are a few posts of the mods saying as such so you're perfectly fine!
If someone is trying to do gens and wants nothing to do with it, and then you single them out by slugging, or killing them while not doing that to the others, that's reportable.
If I plan to farm during an event, I tend to play a match out normally, 2-hooking everyone and then I mess around. I find this has the best reception as the survivors get a normal-ish game and everyone gets plenty of bloodpoints.
Edit: The only thing I'm not sure on is if a single player didn't want to farm, and you 2-hooked them, and then let them do whatever after. I've had that happen to a survivor teammate a couple times.
Ah, I appreciate the clarification! .I would never force someone to farm, but thankfully I’ve never come across someone who didn’t want to. Thank you for clearing that up!
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/465917/forced-to-farm
That is reportable yes, especially if it's survivors and killers working together to farm and you want a normal match and are being forced into the farming.
Personally when those things happen, I try to do the gens, get out of the match as quickly as possible - farming is not fun. It's a super grey area though, but its definitely reportable.
I’m sorry to tag you but I was hoping for clarification on this as I want to make sure I’m not breaking the rules. Are you saying it’s reportable to farm entirely, or are you saying it’s reportable to farm and then get upset if one person doesn’t and then kill them?
I ask because I love to farm as killer specifically during events, where everyone works together as a team for a bunch of event quests and gets lots of blood points. Is what I’m doing not allowed?
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@maipace said:
This may be a basic question, but isn’t this game supposed to be an asymmetrical horror game?
If so, where exactly is the “horror” element in the current state of the game, when the moment a match starts you already know everything — “the killer is ○○,” “your teammates have these perks,” and so on?I started playing around the 7th anniversary, and even back then, all the information was already visible through the UI, such as who was being chased and what my teammates were doing. At that point, there was essentially no horror element left at all.
I do understand that there needs to be some effort to close the gap between solo players and premade groups, but is that really something that should be added at the cost of destroying the core concept of the game?
And has no one considered the possibility — something I’ve already seen mentioned many times elsewhere — that once a match starts and people see someone running a casual or joke build, some players will just disconnect immediately?
Some people say, “It’s fine because there’s a penalty for disconnecting,” but can they really say that when you look at how high the disconnect rate already is?
Even now, there are tons of people who disconnect for ridiculous reasons, like being the first one hooked or failing to use a perk correctly.This change does nothing but fundamentally deny the horror-game identity of this title, and it has the potential to greatly increase the chances of taking away the enjoyment of players who simply want to play and have fun normally. I can only see it as a terrible change.
Horror is subjective. The entire premise of being kidnapped by some entity and thrown into trials of a never ending cycle of being murdered over and over again is pretty horrific to me lol.
But gameplay wise, we have Aura perks for both roles that completely take away any kind of horror edge, neon bright scratch marks that show you exactly where survivors are, noise notifications, perks that allow you to play guitar, clown has a chicken costume, I mean there’s so many parts of DBD gameplay that are not horror. There are horror elements, horror is DBDs entire identity, but the gameplay does not reflect that because the things that work for traditional horror games would not work for DBD. I understand there are certainly things that could add back in the horror like thicker fog, darker maps, but while it would be great for the aesthetic, it would make gameplay suffer. Lights out was a great example of that. It was genuinely scary, but the gameplay was pretty awful. It was difficult to do objectives, certain killers were impossible to counter because you couldn’t see anything. Survivors could be difficult to find. They added candles in the next iteration but even then, the gameplay left more to be desired.
I understand wanting to bring more horror into DBD, but I think it’s not as simple as one might think. If you do bring traditional horror elements, the DBD gameplay will suffer because it’s not a traditional horror game. -
Survivors aren’t a massive hive mind, they’re all individual real life people. There are some individual real life people who suck. It has nothing to do with which role they’re playing in a video game and everything to do with who they are as people. If you want to lump them all together, you’re not really thinking about them as people. It’s unfortunate you ran into a bad person, but thankfully we can move on to the next match with new individual people.
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While I feel it’s certainly possible for this to happen, I still feel the positives far outweigh the negatives. Especially since the community has been asking for this for years. It’s important to look at the full picture and not just the parts we may not like.
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If the killer were replaced by a bot, I am all for it. Without though, I don’t think it’s a good idea. If a survivor abandons the other 3 people still get to play the game. If a killer abandons the trial just ends, along with any kind of adept success, or chances at completing end game tomes/challenges like hatch, cleansing totems or being the last survivor out.
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Friendly reminder that things go to PTB for reason! Dont worry everyone, we can see how it is and then relay the info, and they will make changes accordingly. It’s not a confirmed permanent change or anything.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068873#Comment_4068873
I also want to see killer bots added in part so killers could leave games after gate power. That being said, it won't be done. Partially because of how people dislike the idea of that exit-gate situation, but more over because of what you said. "There are 40+ Different killers with different counters, add-on's, along with killer perks."
For a survivor bot you just code a standard bot who interacts with the objects and perks appropriately. It becomes plug and play. For killer however you have to have a dramatically different bot for each individual killer. Instead of making 1 bot, you now have to make 40. It's a huge amount of work.It’s absolutely is a huge amount of work, I agree with that. But killer bots do already exist in 2v8, so it’s not an impossible technology. Whether or not they will ever deem it worth the time or effort however remains to be seen. I know that it may never happen, but I won’t stop advocating for it because I believe it’s an important resource that should be shared amongst all players, not just one role, and that it would help newer players/returning players immensely. I don’t think there are any downside aside from the effort and time.
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I am one of the biggest advocates for this. It is such an incredible resource and the fact that only one role has access to it really frustrates me. We all want survivors to be better, but there are over 40+ different killers with different counters, add-ons, along with all the killer perks, survivor perks, and map knowledge. At some point it begins to be unreasonable to expect players to not only absorb all this information, but successfully be able to utilize it to make the best plays with no way to actually practice. For the survivor role it is trial by fire every single game.
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068734#Comment_4068734
killing people as the killer role is the same as griefing, TIL
Surely you can gather more from the comment than that? Humping someoene on the ground to you isn’t BM?
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People that are toxic survivors that BM are the same people that are toxic killers who BM. Because it isn’t a survivor player or killer player issue, it’s a player issue. That being said, it sucks to see but you can try to stop it. I stand in front of the killer when people like that try and flashlight beam them, I shake my head no and point. When a killer is humping a survivor on the ground, I do the same thing.
Does it change the actual game? No. But it shows that person affected that someone is standing up for them, and that’s what they will remember.
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4068332#Comment_4068332
Did you see Note match history? How his team was able to 4 man out 10 times in a row against every type of killer, even Nurse and others Blights? It more about comp vs casual than killer vs surv
I have not seen the note match history, though I’m a little confused as to why it may discredit what happened? Are you saying that because his team was able to 4 man out 10 times, that therefore his couple thousand win streaks don’t actually matter? Wouldn’t it make more sense if SWF also had several thousand win steaks to be able to compare like this? If this sounds snarky it’s not meant to, tone can be hard to relay in text format. I am genuinely asking if I’m understanding your position correctly.