Weederick
Weederick
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- Weederick
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@Poweas said:
@Weederick said:
@Poweas said:
@MegMain98 said:
@Poweas said:
Ok.Easiest:
- Billy
- Wraith
- Leatherface
- Freddy
Intermediate:
- Nurse
- Trapper
- Pig
- Doctor
- Hag
Hardest
- Huntress
- Spirit
- Myers
- Legion (nobody except Tru3 plays him correctly.)
- Clown
Nurse as intermediate but Legion as hard? No way. Legion has a brain-dead power that can be exploited by a broken add-on. All they do is stab at you 28 times. Nurse is mechanically difficult and takes muscle memory and skill.
If you think only Tru3 plays Legion correctly, you obviously haven’t seen Monto’s Legion videos. Although just because few people play them correctly doesn’t mean they are hard to master.
Legion when played correctly is hard. Btw I forgot about Monto and other players my bad. Nurse is not difficult she's extremely straightforward. She's quite brain dead once you get used to how far your blinks go and how to predict survivors. I gave her intermediate because she's not easy for newer players. Honestly, I myself got good with her in 3 games. I know a ton of people who had her down in the 2nd game.
Wait, you're serious about your list? That looked like a clever bait. Wraith harder than billy, trapper harder than nurse, legion hard and mentioning tru3 as the only killer who plays legion right? Please tell me you're joking, that looks like a lot of memes compiled into one list.
Billy is straightforward. I literally just said I forgot about people like Monto playing Legion right. Trapper takes a ######### ton of predicting. No reward though. Wraith needs mindgames to secure a hit.
So mastering billys chainsaw takes the least time out of all killers to master. Are you sure about that??
Is that the reason why there are often threads asking how to control billys saw?Legion is not hard to play. He literally ignores every rule and counterplay. Hold W and M1 to the nearest auraread. If theres none left, hold W and M1 to the last survivor.
Which mindgames does wraith need to secure a hit?
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@Poweas said:
@MegMain98 said:
@Poweas said:
Ok.Easiest:
- Billy
- Wraith
- Leatherface
- Freddy
Intermediate:
- Nurse
- Trapper
- Pig
- Doctor
- Hag
Hardest
- Huntress
- Spirit
- Myers
- Legion (nobody except Tru3 plays him correctly.)
- Clown
Nurse as intermediate but Legion as hard? No way. Legion has a brain-dead power that can be exploited by a broken add-on. All they do is stab at you 28 times. Nurse is mechanically difficult and takes muscle memory and skill.
If you think only Tru3 plays Legion correctly, you obviously haven’t seen Monto’s Legion videos. Although just because few people play them correctly doesn’t mean they are hard to master.
Legion when played correctly is hard. Btw I forgot about Monto and other players my bad. Nurse is not difficult she's extremely straightforward. She's quite brain dead once you get used to how far your blinks go and how to predict survivors. I gave her intermediate because she's not easy for newer players. Honestly, I myself got good with her in 3 games. I know a ton of people who had her down in the 2nd game.
Wait, you're serious about your list? That looked like a clever bait. Wraith harder than billy, trapper harder than nurse, legion hard and mentioning tru3 as the only killer who plays legion right? Please tell me you're joking, that looks like a lot of memes compiled into one list.
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@Carpemortum said:
Weederick said:@Carpemortum said:
Weederick said:
@Freudentrauma said: @Weederick said: @Freudentrauma said: @PiiFree said: Camping is not toxic. It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective. It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud. It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help. I would argue camping in DbD is different. Mostly because how the game objectives work etc. People hate it, because like PiiFree said it's not the interesting playstyle for both sides. @Orion said: You failed at every aspect of the chase in order to get on the hook. It's completely fair to lose when you fail. If you didn't lose when you failed, then failure would be indistinguishable from success. There is not camping thread without your messed up logic of failure. There are situations, where survivors can caught easy. And beeing caught once might be a form of failure, it shouldn't cost your game. Camping is one of the design issues of this game. It's not gamebreaking, but it hinders a lot of things in DbD. Like also that the game is design with teamplay as an option in mind. It doesn't work and break the game in edge cases especially for killers. But we all have to live with it, because it's part of the game. Hooks work like the do. You can't fundamently change it. One could simply increase the sacrifice time. Has very little impact on normal players, but gives survivors more gentime against campers. If camping is that unfun and yet a very effective "strategy", it should be toned down to represent its skill-reward ratio. The easiest strat should NOT lead to very strong results. Same with genrush.
Increasing sacrifice time would hurt all killers. It gives survivors more time to finish a gen they are working on, before going for the unhook. I can count the times survivors unhook in the last second before the next phase.
Those always worked very time efficient. And it's not a huge issue, because it's boring for both sides. I think if the general lifetime of killers get's improved without making camping more efficient, you will see it less. But it will never be gone completely. I wouldnt want it gone completely, just better balanced. You can almost always force a win if you play scummy and camp/tunnel at the right time. Bait them from the gens and killsecure. Easy win. About your second part, yes you're right. But doesnt that mean, that camping is currently overtuned? Because why would killers resort to camping if it wasnt the strongest play? Lets be honest, when you start to lose, the first thing you think about is tunnelcamp, cause it swings the game right in youre favor. Just gotta try and bait and not facecamp only. The other option, not playing around the hook, is harder to play, yet doesn't always give better results? Thats my issue, wether its buffing noncamping or nerfing camping, the gap should be closed. Camping and tunneling at the right time? So if I see 3 people waiting at the hook, I should just leave? And then when they unhook them and i see a healthy survivor AND an injured one, you want me to waste more time for a "fresh" target? Sorry, but those are exactly what killers are supposed to do. Kill, and ensure their kill.
Dont try to unhook a camped player. Dont try to lead the killer to others if being chased. Because that's what it is. Chasing. Tunneling is a made up phrase to try and make killers feel scummy about playing optimally.
Those are legit reasons to camp. What i mean is, camping as a mainstrat and not going for the nearby players, but preventing the unhook. And if unhooked, going for him while ignoring others.
I think many survivors and also killers have forgotten how strong killers can be, if they choose to.
A hook and a nearby slug is a win condition. A hook and 4-5 gens left is a win condition. 2-3 slugs is a win condition. If killers pulled through they can win often thourghout a game. They choose not to for the sake of fun.
Not going for nearby players to prevent an unhook is fine. Especially when it's terrible bait and you know they have someone else nearby. Honestly camping is perfect there, because that's 3 people not working on gens while one of those is dying. If you leave, that's 2 or 3 people that are now free and you have no idea who is doing what.
If I see someone unhook in front of me I will 100% hit them again. I would be stupid not to. It's my goal. It's also the exact reason Borrowed Time exists. And why Breakdown recently came to be.
Now if someone decides to hit them down and then chase another, is based on circumstance.
However, if it is painfully obvious the unhook was simply a farm, and not any actual attempt at a save, the farmer gets it.
Also, killers can, and do win, a lot because of camping. Altruistic survivors make that possible. Any condition can be a win with the right and wrong people playing.
Fun, however, cannot be defined for everyone. Some killers (when i play killer) play just to chase and hit and not care about a 4k, but to be the killer. Some want that 4k every game and will do whatever it takes. But fun is fun for them. And if you're not having fun, (I dont mean this in a spiteful way) perhaps change up your playstyle, or what you define as a win, and play for fun. If it's still not fun, play something else. Not because you cant accept the game asis, but because if something isnt fun for you, why bother wasting time with it?
I dont think you get what i want to say. Camp all you want if 3 players are in your face. I am killer main after all, i know how ballsy they can be.
I'm strictly talking about camping without reason, since you almost always win (provided you are not totally outclassed by the survivors). You can try it out yourself. Camp the first survivor you catch and use him as a bait. Dont just facecamp, give the others some hope by circling back and forth, but ultimaly tunnelcamp. You will win >90% of your matches. The only survivors who beat this strategy is 4-swf in my experience. Since they dont have to waste time checking wether the killer is camping.
Now compare that to hard, honest work of gen pressuring and map control.It feels like you're hitting headshots for half damage. Why even bother.
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@Carpemortum said:
Weederick said:@Freudentrauma said:
@Weederick said:
@Freudentrauma said:
@PiiFree said:
Camping is not toxic.
It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective.
It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud.
It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help.
I would argue camping in DbD is different. Mostly because how the game objectives work etc. People hate it, because like PiiFree said it's not the interesting playstyle for both sides.
@Orion said:
You failed at every aspect of the chase in order to get on the hook. It's completely fair to lose when you fail. If you didn't lose when you failed, then failure would be indistinguishable from success.
There is not camping thread without your messed up logic of failure. There are situations, where survivors can caught easy. And beeing caught once might be a form of failure, it shouldn't cost your game.
Camping is one of the design issues of this game. It's not gamebreaking, but it hinders a lot of things in DbD. Like also that the game is design with teamplay as an option in mind. It doesn't work and break the game in edge cases especially for killers. But we all have to live with it, because it's part of the game. Hooks work like the do. You can't fundamently change it.
One could simply increase the sacrifice time. Has very little impact on normal players, but gives survivors more gentime against campers.
If camping is that unfun and yet a very effective "strategy", it should be toned down to represent its skill-reward ratio. The easiest strat should NOT lead to very strong results. Same with genrush.
Increasing sacrifice time would hurt all killers. It gives survivors more time to finish a gen they are working on, before going for the unhook. I can count the times survivors unhook in the last second before the next phase.
Those always worked very time efficient.
And it's not a huge issue, because it's boring for both sides. I think if the general lifetime of killers get's improved without making camping more efficient, you will see it less. But it will never be gone completely.
I wouldnt want it gone completely, just better balanced. You can almost always force a win if you play scummy and camp/tunnel at the right time. Bait them from the gens and killsecure. Easy win.
About your second part, yes you're right. But doesnt that mean, that camping is currently overtuned? Because why would killers resort to camping if it wasnt the strongest play? Lets be honest, when you start to lose, the first thing you think about is tunnelcamp, cause it swings the game right in youre favor. Just gotta try and bait and not facecamp only.
The other option, not playing around the hook, is harder to play, yet doesn't always give better results? Thats my issue, wether its buffing noncamping or nerfing camping, the gap should be closed.
Camping and tunneling at the right time? So if I see 3 people waiting at the hook, I should just leave? And then when they unhook them and i see a healthy survivor AND an injured one, you want me to waste more time for a "fresh" target?
Sorry, but those are exactly what killers are supposed to do. Kill, and ensure their kill.
Dont try to unhook a camped player. Dont try to lead the killer to others if being chased. Because that's what it is. Chasing. Tunneling is a made up phrase to try and make killers feel scummy about playing optimally.
Those are legit reasons to camp. What i mean is, camping as a mainstrat and not going for the nearby players, but preventing the unhook. And if unhooked, going for him while ignoring others.
I think many survivors and also killers have forgotten how strong killers can be, if they choose to.
A hook and a nearby slug is a win condition. A hook and 4-5 gens left is a win condition. 2-3 slugs is a win condition. If killers pulled through they can win often thourghout a game. They choose not to for the sake of fun. -
Once or twice. Pretty rarely, but i also dont give them reason to dodge. Solo player mostly, no items, dressed as a noob meghead. Keep your legacy and items at home and you get dodged a lot less.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@Warlock_2020 said:
I get camping when the gates are triggered/open, or if survivors are swarming the hook. That makes total sense. This whole thing about "...securing your kill.." screams you can't hunt down another in a decent amount of time. I love playing several killers, but I can't, for the life of me, sit there and camp a hook. It is boring, it is fruitless, and I'd rather try to get another hooked before that one is off. That means 3 people off of gens.Camping is not a legit strategy, it is a griefing style of play. Admit it, and move on. It is not bannable, but it is a crappy play style. Nobody enjoys being camped. Nobody can avoid getting hooked all the time, so you can't blame the survivor. It is just a broken style of gameplay. I can't bring myself to do it. It is so boring.
Oh well. It is what it is.
It's not hard to get at all. People want to win and camping is one of the better ways to slow the game down and help do so. It has the potential to bring 1-3 other survivors off the gens to help with the save.
Camping is a legit strategy, it is not griefing, and you have no idea of what you are talking about.
You do not, versus competent survivors, have time to down and hook 4 survivors 3 times each. You can claim anything you want to but everyone knows the truth. The only players you can allow unhooks at will and still win are versus the completely inept.
You're a survivor players making untrue assertions about what is feasible in killer play to make a case for your hate for guarding a down.
Instead of demanding killers get better at downing survivors how about you get better at not getting caught? Can't? Too bad.
Learn to lose with grace instead. Whingeing about being camped is not graceful.
Just admit most survivors are failures less they be killers instead and move on.This is so completely wrong. Camping the first hook is the dumbest strategy there is. It completely requires dumb survivors to work. It is not the best way to ensure a win, it is the best way to ensure a loss, unless you are constantly deranking to camp rank 16 players that don't know better.
As for my play, I have played both, unlike many who side one or the other. I hate playing survivor because it is a boring M1 simulator. I play Trapper mostly, with a smattering of Pig, Hag, Shape, and Clown. All are lvl 50, but only Trapper is P3 because I figured out that P3 was an absolute joke. Instead, I got all the perks on Pig and Trapper and am close to all the perks on Shape and Clown. I'm considering buying Doctor...not sure why. But I thought he might be fun. EDIT - I quickly learned that killer was more fun and made the bp grind 100% less frustrating. The amount of bp gained by the killer far outweighs that of the survivor. Why play M1 simulator and grind when I can have fun and get tons of bp?
The problem is that no camper wants to admit that camping is a low-skilled way to take advantage of dumb survivors who try to rescue the camped hook. That is why they always fail against smart survivors who know better and just hammer out gens in a boring match and move on, hoping to get a decent killer in the next one.
Again, camping sucks. It is absolutely foolish to camp the first hook and is mostly done out of a want to grief. Camping the hook while the gates are activated is the complete opposite. It secures that last kill and is almost foolish to not do. That is where the entire camping argument gets lost. One works, the other is just dumb.
It is a lowskill strategy, but it almost always works due to human nature and how the bp/pip system works.
Dice went on a 1200 kill streak by facecamping. And im not surprised. There are monthly threads of noob killers who brag how they got to r1 with 90% winrate with insidious leatherface.
Something about hardcamping works in dbd. -
@Mrrgle_the_Mediocre said:
Everybody thinks Freddy is easy to master, this is a fat R.I.P for my Mid tier boy.You just have to learn the transition mindgame. Count to 3 then fake. Else he just needs to press M2 everytime he sees someone and get some basic know how when to apply pressure instead of tunneling.
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Easy: Wraith, Leatherface, Freddy, Legion
Intermediate: Trapper, Myers, Doctor, Pig
Hard: Clown, Billy, Spirit, Hag, Nurse, HuntressEasy killers have very simple powers, not much to learn overall.
Intermediate killers have a mix of easy and hard abilites. Some parts require timing or gamesense, but they usually have an easy kit to fall back on.
Hard killers are mechanically hard or require good gamesense. If you mess up, you messed up. -
As long as they play the base game, they're not tryhards. Running tiles optimally and playing mindgames is skill. When they start stacking broken things to get an advantage through consumables, i'd call them tryhards (e.g. Ebony mori/Insta-X vs stacking 2nd chances).
A survivor who plays shack perfectly and wastes a lot of time through good predicitions is respectable. A survivor who wastes time with sb, ds, instaheal, unbreakable, adrenaline is not (at least for me). Same for killers. Base killer who downs quickly with good movement and fake outs is good. Someone who stacks the best addons and moris and tunnelcamps is not.
but i guess everyone has other standards -
@Freudentrauma said:
@Weederick said:
@Freudentrauma said:
@PiiFree said:
Camping is not toxic.It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective.
It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud.
It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help.
I would argue camping in DbD is different. Mostly because how the game objectives work etc. People hate it, because like PiiFree said it's not the interesting playstyle for both sides.
@Orion said:
You failed at every aspect of the chase in order to get on the hook. It's completely fair to lose when you fail. If you didn't lose when you failed, then failure would be indistinguishable from success.
There is not camping thread without your messed up logic of failure. There are situations, where survivors can caught easy. And beeing caught once might be a form of failure, it shouldn't cost your game.
Camping is one of the design issues of this game. It's not gamebreaking, but it hinders a lot of things in DbD. Like also that the game is design with teamplay as an option in mind. It doesn't work and break the game in edge cases especially for killers. But we all have to live with it, because it's part of the game. Hooks work like the do. You can't fundamently change it.
One could simply increase the sacrifice time. Has very little impact on normal players, but gives survivors more gentime against campers.
If camping is that unfun and yet a very effective "strategy", it should be toned down to represent its skill-reward ratio. The easiest strat should NOT lead to very strong results. Same with genrush.
Increasing sacrifice time would hurt all killers. It gives survivors more time to finish a gen they are working on, before going for the unhook. I can count the times survivors unhook in the last second before the next phase.
Those always worked very time efficient.
And it's not a huge issue, because it's boring for both sides. I think if the general lifetime of killers get's improved without making camping more efficient, you will see it less. But it will never be gone completely.I wouldnt want it gone completely, just better balanced. You can almost always force a win if you play scummy and camp/tunnel at the right time. Bait them from the gens and killsecure. Easy win.
About your second part, yes you're right. But doesnt that mean, that camping is currently overtuned? Because why would killers resort to camping if it wasnt the strongest play? Lets be honest, when you start to lose, the first thing you think about is tunnelcamp, cause it swings the game right in youre favor. Just gotta try and bait and not facecamp only.
The other option, not playing around the hook, is harder to play, yet doesn't always give better results? Thats my issue, wether its buffing noncamping or nerfing camping, the gap should be closed. -
@Freudentrauma said:
@PiiFree said:
Camping is not toxic.It's the Killer securing a kill. A kill is an objective.
It's not the nicest and most interesting playstyle one can do but then again camping in CS or PUBG is also not the nicest and most interesting thing to do, yet people are mature enough to find a way to deal with it instead of crying out loud.
It's only in DbD where people refuse to adapt and instead rather request Mommys help.
I would argue camping in DbD is different. Mostly because how the game objectives work etc. People hate it, because like PiiFree said it's not the interesting playstyle for both sides.
@Orion said:
You failed at every aspect of the chase in order to get on the hook. It's completely fair to lose when you fail. If you didn't lose when you failed, then failure would be indistinguishable from success.
There is not camping thread without your messed up logic of failure. There are situations, where survivors can caught easy. And beeing caught once might be a form of failure, it shouldn't cost your game.
Camping is one of the design issues of this game. It's not gamebreaking, but it hinders a lot of things in DbD. Like also that the game is design with teamplay as an option in mind. It doesn't work and break the game in edge cases especially for killers. But we all have to live with it, because it's part of the game. Hooks work like the do. You can't fundamently change it.
One could simply increase the sacrifice time. Has very little impact on normal players, but gives survivors more gentime against campers.
If camping is that unfun and yet a very effective "strategy", it should be toned down to represent its skill-reward ratio. The easiest strat should NOT lead to very strong results. Same with genrush.
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My 3 main survivors, fully perked out.Wow, the graphic difference on console O.o
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:This was a bug since release. I dont think they can fix it or it was never on their list.
Billy main?
You surely know how frustrating it is when you completely outplay a survivor on a strong structure like jungle gym but the chainsaw stops. It really triggers me, sometimes I'm on the edge to DC if it happens multiple times in the same match.Yes, it sucks hard. I wish they would fix it, but after 2,5y i would give it up.
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This was a bug since release. I dont think they can fix it or it was never on their list.
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I've been playing addonless for almost everyone, but doctor and trapper. Doctor is truely addon dependant imo, he needs shockrange to make it usable and any other addon, since they're all good at all rarities. Trapper needs a bag of some sort to carry more traps. Even though you can play him without bags, the chance of getting genrushed is just too high.
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Meg is bait. She's the new dwight, since the experienced meg players swapped to kate. I like her meghead look and sounds.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:
@DwightsLifeMatters said: Weederick said:
Its not easy in the red ranks. Noob3 also tried the challenge and gave up at red ranks.
What challenge? Same, perkless and addonless Killer or the survivor version of that? He played both versions without addons and perks. Made it with survivor and gave up killer around rank 4 (maining huntress later on). Tbf he was 12 hours in the livestream and exhausted, but sadly didnt continue the next day.
Why exactly did he gave up? Genrushed or just lost fun? I'm not sure but isn't Noob3 a survivor main? Or does he play both sides?
I only watched some parts of it, but he seemed frustrated and gave up, because he thought he cant make it. It was too hard. Although i think he couldve made it next day... He's a survivormain with thousand of hours, so probably still more killerhours than most people.
Other people who did the same challenge also said, that red ranks is haaard. Sweaty, tryhardy and thats where the only black pip/depips happened, if any.
Good to know. Respect that he tried this challenge as a survivor main.
Agree, he seemed pretty chill admitting defeat for the killer challenge.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:
Its not easy in the red ranks. Noob3 also tried the challenge and gave up at red ranks.
What challenge? Same, perkless and addonless Killer or the survivor version of that?
He played both versions without addons and perks. Made it with survivor and gave up killer around rank 4 (maining huntress later on). Tbf he was 12 hours in the livestream and exhausted, but sadly didnt continue the next day.
Why exactly did he gave up? Genrushed or just lost fun? I'm not sure but isn't Noob3 a survivor main? Or does he play both sides?
I only watched some parts of it, but he seemed frustrated and gave up, because he thought he cant make it. It was too hard. Although i think he couldve made it next day... He's a survivormain with thousand of hours, so probably still more killerhours than most people.
Other people who did the same challenge also said, that red ranks is haaard. Sweaty, tryhardy and thats where the only black pip/depips happened, if any. -
@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Weederick said:Its not easy in the red ranks. Noob3 also tried the challenge and gave up at red ranks.
What challenge? Same, perkless and addonless Killer or the survivor version of that?
He played both versions without addons and perks. Made it with survivor and gave up killer around rank 4 (maining huntress later on). Tbf he was 12 hours in the livestream and exhausted, but sadly didnt continue the next day.
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Its not easy in the red ranks. Noob3 also tried the challenge and gave up at red ranks.
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For 2018, Pig.
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Make stealth a really viable option against her. There have been multiple killers now that actually get countered harder by stealth than the nurse.
Huntress has a large, directional humming -> Nurse could get global, directional gasping
Spirit can't see blood and survivors while phasing -> Nurse cant see blood during fatigue cooldown
Legion can't see scratchmarks during frenzy -> Nurse can't see scratchmarks during fatigue cooldownShe and Billy could both need a higher cooldown on their abilities, since they were created during a different time, where balance was heavily survivorfavored. Apart from stealth and cooldown changes, i'd only like to keep her controls as is. People spent a lot of time getting the muscle memory down and changing that would likely cause riots. Just a guess, but if nurse gets balanced in other areas while staying the same in terms of blinking, nurse players could probably accept that. Probably better than changing blink distances etc
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@Morfedel said:
@Weederick said:
@legionnbuff said:
PigNRun said:
Orion said:@Morfedel said:
@Master said: balanced landing is really underrated imo
With the new engine, lightweight might have become quite decent aswell
unfortunately balanced landing is nearly worthless in some maps.
How many maps have zero drops? One?
There are maps that only have one drop. And depending on where you are on that map, you might not make it to that drop. I can think of all Macmillan Estate maps (except for Coal Tower and Ironworks), Coldwind Farm (excluding Thompson House), Autoheaven Wreckers, Lery's and Yamaoka Estate. Thats 14 maps out of 27 where Balanced Landing may not even be used depending on the circumstances.
Yamaoka estate has a few drops,not just 1 drop,and in the middle of the Lery's are a lot of drops. You are right about Macmillan Estate with the variation Shelter woods that has any drop*excluding the basement drop.
Shelter Woods has a drop-off from the centre tree. You can run up at some angles, but its hard to hit in a chase. Every map has a drop off so far.
not counting the basement? such as the auto graveyard?
Yes, without counting the basement. The autohaven maps have those tractors, where you run up to a windowvault, with a safe pallet to the side.
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@PigNRun said:
Weederick said:@Shroompy said:
@Weederick said: I liked reading through that +1
Pig is on par with Myers though. People dont use her full kit and then they dismiss her, because streamers say she sucks
(Watch Psychoscorpionz, he is an excellent Pig with over 2k hours on her.) She has antiloop, stealth and stalling.Same could be said for any other killer, even if a killer is bad doesn't mean you can't be bad with them.
To a certain degree. A Wraith doesn't have much depth to him, while Pig has a lot of depth, but most people aren't into her. Its not about performing well and winning, but about how players use their abilities.
For example, prebuff hag: People trapped the hook 5 times, but not strategic places. After the buff, people realised thats not how she is played.
Or release billy: People didnt use it for mobility and backrevs, but for midrange shots into walls. After the arrowkey exploit, they realised that not how he's played.
And for Pig, people either always crouch or never crouch. They never use ambush at pallets. Or uncrouch for when people leave the loop. They dont uncrouch as her real ambush etc.
I highly recommend to really watch Psychoscorpionz first, just to see what i mean.
Hag does not apply to what you are saying though. People only started using traps correctly because it then became viable. Setting up traps took way too long, and during a chase it meant losing the Survivor. Now, with her setting speed increased, this isnt the case anymore.
Before the buff, people thought hag is all about setting 10 traps around a hook. True, that the setting speed buff allowed her to trap midchase, but i meant, that people didnt even trap pallets etc for hits.
Prebuff, you had to set a web for a minute and hope everything goes accordingly. Now you can hunt right from the start and place traps on the fly, while keeping survs off gens. prebuff, they just killsecure the hook with 10 traps while having none out on the map. -
@Shroompy said:
@Weederick said:
@Shroompy said:
@Weederick said:
I liked reading through that +1
Pig is on par with Myers though. People dont use her full kit and then they dismiss her, because streamers say she sucks (Watch Psychoscorpionz, he is an excellent Pig with over 2k hours on her.) She has antiloop, stealth and stalling.Same could be said for any other killer, even if a killer is bad doesn't mean you can't be bad with them.
To a certain degree. A Wraith doesn't have much depth to him, while Pig has a lot of depth, but most people aren't into her. Its not about performing well and winning, but about how players use their abilities.
For example, prebuff hag: People trapped the hook 5 times, but not strategic places. After the buff, people realised thats not how she is played.
Or release billy: People didnt use it for mobility and backrevs, but for midrange shots into walls. After the arrowkey exploit, they realised that not how he's played.
And for Pig, people either always crouch or never crouch. They never use ambush at pallets. Or uncrouch for when people leave the loop. They dont uncrouch as her real ambush etc.
I highly recommend to really watch Psychoscorpionz first, just to see what i mean.I know the potential of Pig, Ive played against Psychoscorpionz before and trust me I got my ass handed to me. How ever you can play around Pig fairly easily even with what she has. I'd say Wraith is a little better because his red glow only appears AFTER he uncloaks, so you can't tell which direction he's coming from while Pig gives an audio cue.
Pig is good in some ways, but bad in others.Depends on the pig player... how do you play around her ambush at pallets? You can only leave when you see her crouching, but the next time, i'll go crouch to make you leave and then i uncrouch and catch you in the open. The counterplay is having a dense pallet/window setup and pigs counterplay is clearing some pallets first before using her ambush/uncrouch against good survivors in this specific area.
Wraiths stealth is better than pigs stealth, agree (but mainly, because his is faster, while pig is slower). The audio cue doesn't matter, since you dont ambush out of a crouching position. You uncrouch to get potential grabs and not get countered by sprintburst.
Other killers may do specific things better (Wraith stealth, Myers grabs, Clowns anitloop), but they're also specialised on one area, while Pig has access to everything and the best stalling in the game. A swiss knife
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@Shroompy said:
@Weederick said:
I liked reading through that +1
Pig is on par with Myers though. People dont use her full kit and then they dismiss her, because streamers say she sucks (Watch Psychoscorpionz, he is an excellent Pig with over 2k hours on her.) She has antiloop, stealth and stalling.Same could be said for any other killer, even if a killer is bad doesn't mean you can't be bad with them.
To a certain degree. A Wraith doesn't have much depth to him, while Pig has a lot of depth, but most people aren't into her. Its not about performing well and winning, but about how players use their abilities.
For example, prebuff hag: People trapped the hook 5 times, but not strategic places. After the buff, people realised thats not how she is played.
Or release billy: People didnt use it for mobility and backrevs, but for midrange shots into walls. After the arrowkey exploit, they realised that not how he's played.
And for Pig, people either always crouch or never crouch. They never use ambush at pallets. Or uncrouch for when people leave the loop. They dont uncrouch as her real ambush etc.
I highly recommend to really watch Psychoscorpionz first, just to see what i mean. -
@legionnbuff said:
PigNRun said:
Orion said:@Morfedel said:
@Master said: balanced landing is really underrated imo
With the new engine, lightweight might have become quite decent aswell
unfortunately balanced landing is nearly worthless in some maps.
How many maps have zero drops? One?
There are maps that only have one drop. And depending on where you are on that map, you might not make it to that drop. I can think of all Macmillan Estate maps (except for Coal Tower and Ironworks), Coldwind Farm (excluding Thompson House), Autoheaven Wreckers, Lery's and Yamaoka Estate. Thats 14 maps out of 27 where Balanced Landing may not even be used depending on the circumstances.
Yamaoka estate has a few drops,not just 1 drop,and in the middle of the Lery's are a lot of drops. You are right about Macmillan Estate with the variation Shelter woods that has any drop*excluding the basement drop.
Shelter Woods has a drop-off from the centre tree. You can run up at some angles, but its hard to hit in a chase. Every map has a drop off so far.
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I liked reading through that +1
Pig is on par with Myers though. People dont use her full kit and then they dismiss her, because streamers say she sucks (Watch Psychoscorpionz, he is an excellent Pig with over 2k hours on her.) She has antiloop, stealth and stalling. -
Pig gets a buff in the midchapter, reducing her crouch time from 2s to 1,3s. Combat straps will still reduce it to 1s, basically making her addon-independant.
Her RBTs are strong enough imo. Great timewasters and allow you to play "1vs3". It would be cool, if her uncrouch was faster though, so if survivors run away from loops when you go for crouch/ambush, you can uncrouch faster and catch them offguard before they reach the next tile.
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When i just started the game, a noed trapper downed and trapped me. He went to chase out the other survivors, thinking i wouldn't be lucky enough to kobe first try and untrap myself first try (4% and 5%). Against all odds, i got super lucky and barely made it out of the other gate with him close behind, probably confused on what just happened.
Another moment was just a week ago when i got the Where did they go achievement with another solo and a 2-swf. Solo Dwight and me finished the last gen and we both ran from the pursuing Doctor, when we stumbled upon the 2-swfs. They found a key in a chest (they told us in chat afterwards) and when the last gen popped, the hatch spawned right next to them. It all happened so quickly, the gates got powered and everyone was suddenly standing at the hatch, knowing whats about to happen and we were just waiting for Docs reaction. Lucky for us, he was is in a good christmas mood and kept nodding at us and watched us from a distance, while we jumped in the hatch one by one
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He could even walk with 110% or 115% movement speed without slowdowns. I mean, this guy is holding his chainsaw out all the time, he should have the strength and conditioning to do it. And it would make him better at chainsawing people than billy.
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Pig is the most misunderstood killer
Billy is not that great against good survivors
Huntress has the most potential and the hardest killer to play
Every killer is viable since 2.0
Ruin is not a must have, but a crutch -
The Depip Squad went with selfcare, sprintburst, ouDSkilled and unbreakable. It probably still holds true as it covers all areas. Add an instaheal for more ggez outplayed baby killer.
Thing with second chance perks is, they scale with your skill as survivor. If you suck at chases, another health state wont take you further. Bad loopers are better of with stealth perks (which are strong anyways, just not guaranteed timewasters).Adrenaline is also good, but is even more dependant on your own skill. Deliverance is ok, but not as good as the other crutch perks. You can drop unbreakable for them until you play highranks, as it scales with the killer skill.
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For survivors, i was really happy that i got spine chill and premonition maxed before even hitting level 10. I hated sabo jakes, since they would never help on gens. Dwights were ######### legends in lockers. I avoided windows for the most part, since they were broken strong and started palletlooping pretty quickly. Every game was against camping wraiths at first and camping trappers later
For killers, i planted chainsaws in survivors backs for the next 1000 hours. I had sooo much fun doing it, holy crap, until they removed the flick. Whenever infinites tilted me too much, i swapped to trapper or nurse for a quick round.
Fun times, everyone was so bad back then. And i remember one dwight in particular (Juke City) who palletlooped me for the first time and it made me so angry, that i learned it myself afterwards.
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Killers:
1. Billy
2. Huntress
3. SpiritSurvivors:
1. Meg
2. Kate
3. Ace -
Permanent 115% movement speed would be a bit too strong. But it would be nice if he would could either have some antiloop built in his kit. Or get temporary movement speed for a short while after using his power. So if they fail to down someone early, they can go for another frenzy spree to get their movespeed back.
Anything really. A 110% killer whose ability doesn't help at loops is terrible to play. -
@Orion said:
@Weederick said:
@Orion said:
@Weederick said:
Is this actually a discussion or just Orion telling everyone they're wrong?
Imo its a crutch, just like DS, Noed and Sprintburst.Plenty of people in this thread, I don't know why you're singling me out.
Because you respond to everyone and tell them they're wrong for the reasons you mentioned. But your reasons are not true, they're your opinion. Selfcare and Nurses calling are strong, but balanced perks. Believe in the truth of the mob. Arguments differ, especially extremes like your killerbiased ones. The truth is often the middle ground. Lots of people complain about DS, Noed, Ruin, so its probably true that they're crutches.
Note how I said "on release", and explained why. And yeah, I'm so "killerbiased" that I was the first person to suggest a nerf to A Nurse's Calling, which resulted in what you now call the balanced version.
Then take selfcare as an example. You think its overpowered and breaks the game. I think its healthy for the game and a weaker selfcare can be baseline for the game. It closes the gap between SWF and solo which is a bigger problem and it takes a perk slot like old brutal strength, making perk choices less variant and more meta.
You think its broken that getting hit has no long lasting consequences. But there is no other game where getting hit has permanent consequences. Every game lets you heal without leaving you penalised for getting hit. -
@Orion said:
@Weederick said:
Is this actually a discussion or just Orion telling everyone they're wrong?
Imo its a crutch, just like DS, Noed and Sprintburst.Plenty of people in this thread, I don't know why you're singling me out.
Because you respond to everyone and tell them they're wrong for the reasons you mentioned. But your reasons are not true, they're your opinion. Selfcare and Nurses calling are strong, but balanced perks. Believe in the truth of the mob. Arguments differ, especially extremes like your killerbiased ones. The truth is often the middle ground. Lots of people complain about DS, Noed, Ruin, so its probably true that they're crutches.
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Is this actually a discussion or just Orion telling everyone they're wrong?
Imo its a crutch, just like DS, Noed and Sprintburst. -
flicks away for the last time :'(
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Nurse
Billy, Hag, Spirit, HuntressMyers, Pig
Clown, Wraith, Doctor, Trapper, Leatherface, Freddy
Legion -
@Orion said:
@Weederick said:
If camping is fair, then genrush is fair.
I'd rather have none of those ez cheese strats be the strongest tools available. Playing a close, fun game is what dbd should become. Not "Camping is legit, just rush gens next time. Facecamp is counterable" yada yada its boringRead the thread to know why camping is fair and make your own thread if you wish to discuss something else.
I read your stupid arguments and its a very biased opinion. even if you do everything wrong as killer, you get bloodlust and down them. As if its hard and skillfull to down survivors nowadays.
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If camping is fair, then genrush is fair.
I'd rather have none of those ez cheese strats be the strongest tools available. Playing a close, fun game is what dbd should become. Not "Camping is legit, just rush gens next time. Facecamp is counterable" yada yada its boring -
I'm kinda split on their tier. They can be lower tier if you play them honest and how they should be played (mend everyone, then either chase 110%(preferably) or use frenzy 3 times). Or they can be higher tier if you use cheese and play them in unintended ways, by moonwalking problematic survivors down.
Legion can safely stall the game right from the get go. The problem is downing good loopers, since 110% is a joke to loop, which is his balance to his stalling. Now with moonwalking this does not apply anymore, they will go down in ~30s. As mending takes 15-16s, this actually leaves little gentime for a guaranteed down and this could make him very strong. But this is probably not how he was designed to play...
Day 2 2c, went from weakest killer to potentially high tier -
@altruistic said:
“I am not immediately good at something, therefore it is bad!” Attitude of most players. Give it time. Let people learn how to actually play the character.If you’re seriously “ranking” a Killer <12 hours after release, you need help.
You can still discuss and give an early impression on a killer. Her strength and weaknesses are very apparent, other than Spirit, Clown and Huntress. Legion excels at map control/stalling IF survivors group up. Problem is, when survivors learn how to play against her, they will stop doing that or hiding while you're frenzying and run away instead. And then you're left with the killer with the worst chase to down someone.
She reminds me a bit of Fredy, a noobstomper. A good looper takes too long to down. Thats why i'd place her lower tier, she's really bad against good survivors. Still early for a ranking, but better now than after release -
Tbh, weakest killer in the game by good margin.
And im not one to complain about powers, i rated Spirit lower toptier at release. Legion, at its current state, has no chance against good survivors. Early 2c -
POGGERS
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Nurses calling/Monitor & Abuse
Enduring/Spirit Fury
Sloppy Butcher/Thanatophobia
Ruin/Haunted Grounds
Selfcare/Botany Knowledge -
Pig is one of the best midtier killers. She does everything other midtier killer do, like a swiss knife. Antiloop like clown, stealth like wraith, grabs like myers, stalls like doctor. All in one package, but she takes practice. She's one of the killer that you would intuitively use wrong.