Weederick
Weederick
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Remember this guy from the dev stream?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSckKVzZ3NQAnd their second video which did NOT make it xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7tNYfhlbcI -
@Mister_Holdout said:
@Weederick said:
@Mister_Holdout said:
@iceman2kx said:
Your build is meta, there's no issue with that. Maybe try Sloppy or Ruin over Whispers? Totally up to you on that one, but whispers is never a bad choice. If survivors are juking you, you're probably being too predictable. Get right behind them, like you said melee range. Try stalling your chainsaw right around 95% and wait for their 360. Once they try and 360 you, that's your chance to hit them. Also aim your mouse down a little bit (towards Billy's feet), you'll have a better view of the survivors when they try and juke you.As for the window, I'm not sure I understand your question. Maybe rephrase it? As for Q and E, I know there's some pretty advanced moves you can do with Billy at loops, but those are pretty hard to do. I just M1 at loops honestly. I don't even see Zubat usually play like that and he's one of the best Billy's out there. Normally, use Q and E for steering across the map, but just use the mouse for normal chainsaws.
Pro tip. Instead of Q and E, use A and D to body block up close then hit your chainsaw.
Thanks!
I will definitely practice aiming down with the chainsaw.
As for keeping the chainsaw revved at 95%, I don't really see Zubat doing that (as far as I can tell). If he spots someone, he just revs up the chainsaw without pausing and hits the survivor.
Is that because he wasn't being 360'd hard? From my perspective, it looks like his tracking is good enough to not need pausing.
As for the window question, I'll try and rephrase.
There are situations where I catch survivors out in the open. I pull out my saw and the survivor tries to jump through the window. Even though I'm close behind them, the survivor is able to dodge the chainsaw at the last second, causing me to hit the window.Is that a situation where Billy is supposed to win or do you have to predict that they will dodge?
Moreover, sometimes I see Zubat chainsaw someone who is looping the shack.
As the survivor is heading through the doorway, Zubat pulls out the saw and catches the survivor before they can reach the pallet or window (without add ons).Again, is Billy supposed to win this or is it all based on prediction. I.e guessing which way the survivor will fake.
Zubat is using Q and E, so he can react to sudden movements. If you use mouse only, you need some tricks to work around the wonky whip. Hold the chainsaw and see how the survivor jukes. They usually have a predictive pattern and dont change it up much. Some 360 forever, others do wiggles, some spin on the spot etc. Take 2-3 seconds and see how they move, then start the chainsaw when they're starting to turn. That's when they're most vulnerable. Keep on practicing mouse only, it may be inferior to q and e, but its honest and feels much better imo.
Those windows are predictive, you cant react and steer into him if they dodge at the last second. What works most of the time: Bad survivors take the window. Good survivors wont. If a survivors seems competent, just hold the saw and make them "dodge" the window and then you're right behind them for a normal chainsaw.
Also be patient in general. Wait with your hammer till the last moment, they may 360 a window and then you bodyblock it for a chainsaw. When they fall for a fakerev at a pallet, dont hammer him. Rev up the chainsaw and try to nail him if he keeps looping. If he turns back to the loop, bodyblock it. Try and bodyblock everything, really. Wait with your chainsaws aswell, you may get a safer chainsaw opportunity seconds later. They dodge themselves into a wall or tree and then one dodge direction is gone for an easy hit. Its all about consistency and getting chainsaws through bodyblocks.
And for your mouse settings, you need a low sensitivity to control the whip. If you're really into mouse billy and mastering him, you should probably be around 400-1000 dpi (im using 400 dpi 50%). I used to play him at 1200 dpi around the rework, but it lacks real control of the whip since its so sensitive to movement.
Thanks so much for a detailed response.
I will definitely try and catch survivors at those loops. And your window tip is genius.
The mouse setting tips are a tremendous help as well. Being mostly a Nurse main, I was used to playing on 3200 dpi in order to hit those 360s. I turned it down to 1600 but was still running into issues with the whip.
I will practice with 800 dpi from now on. Hopefully, I can start catching those 360s.
And I will certainly start being more patient with the chainsaw considering I'm only using the mouse.I have no personal issue with using "q' and "e", it's just I can't control the killer lol.
I'm guessing you play Billy without using q and e as well?
Get 'em. Vroom vroom. 3200 to 800 will take some time getting used to, but you'll get a much better feel for it.
Q and E is very consistent and easy to control the chainsaw, its a lot better for those midrange loopsaws when you turn a corner with the whip. I've tried it out for a short while after i discovered zubats stream, but it felt wrong. I also forgot about it all the time. I went into dozens of games telling myself to use q and e, just to forget about it every single time lol, so i stick with the mouse.@Poweas said:
@Weederick said:
@Mister_Holdout said:
@iceman2kx said:
Your build is meta, there's no issue with that. Maybe try Sloppy or Ruin over Whispers? Totally up to you on that one, but whispers is never a bad choice. If survivors are juking you, you're probably being too predictable. Get right behind them, like you said melee range. Try stalling your chainsaw right around 95% and wait for their 360. Once they try and 360 you, that's your chance to hit them. Also aim your mouse down a little bit (towards Billy's feet), you'll have a better view of the survivors when they try and juke you.As for the window, I'm not sure I understand your question. Maybe rephrase it? As for Q and E, I know there's some pretty advanced moves you can do with Billy at loops, but those are pretty hard to do. I just M1 at loops honestly. I don't even see Zubat usually play like that and he's one of the best Billy's out there. Normally, use Q and E for steering across the map, but just use the mouse for normal chainsaws.
Pro tip. Instead of Q and E, use A and D to body block up close then hit your chainsaw.
Thanks!
I will definitely practice aiming down with the chainsaw.
As for keeping the chainsaw revved at 95%, I don't really see Zubat doing that (as far as I can tell). If he spots someone, he just revs up the chainsaw without pausing and hits the survivor.
Is that because he wasn't being 360'd hard? From my perspective, it looks like his tracking is good enough to not need pausing.
As for the window question, I'll try and rephrase.
There are situations where I catch survivors out in the open. I pull out my saw and the survivor tries to jump through the window. Even though I'm close behind them, the survivor is able to dodge the chainsaw at the last second, causing me to hit the window.Is that a situation where Billy is supposed to win or do you have to predict that they will dodge?
Moreover, sometimes I see Zubat chainsaw someone who is looping the shack.
As the survivor is heading through the doorway, Zubat pulls out the saw and catches the survivor before they can reach the pallet or window (without add ons).Again, is Billy supposed to win this or is it all based on prediction. I.e guessing which way the survivor will fake.
Zubat is using Q and E, so he can react to sudden movements. If you use mouse only, you need some tricks to work around the wonky whip. Hold the chainsaw and see how the survivor jukes. They usually have a predictive pattern and dont change it up much. Some 360 forever, others do wiggles, some spin on the spot etc. Take 2-3 seconds and see how they move, then start the chainsaw when they're starting to turn. That's when they're most vulnerable. Keep on practicing mouse only, it may be inferior to q and e, but its honest and feels much better imo.
Those windows are predictive, you cant react and steer into him if they dodge at the last second. What works most of the time: Bad survivors take the window. Good survivors wont. If a survivors seems competent, just hold the saw and make them "dodge" the window and then you're right behind them for a normal chainsaw.
Also be patient in general. Wait with your hammer till the last moment, they may 360 a window and then you bodyblock it for a chainsaw. When they fall for a fakerev at a pallet, dont hammer him. Rev up the chainsaw and try to nail him if he keeps looping. If he turns back to the loop, bodyblock it. Try and bodyblock everything, really. Wait with your chainsaws aswell, you may get a safer chainsaw opportunity seconds later. They dodge themselves into a wall or tree and then one dodge direction is gone for an easy hit. Its all about consistency and getting chainsaws through bodyblocks.
And for your mouse settings, you need a low sensitivity to control the whip. If you're really into mouse billy and mastering him, you should probably be around 400-1000 dpi (im using 400 dpi 50%). I used to play him at 1200 dpi around the rework, but it lacks real control of the whip since its so sensitive to movement.
So my 100 sensitivity is bad?
The lower the better. Depends on your mouse dpi aswell. The whip is just a crazy sensitivity curve and if you have lower sens, you have more room to control it. Lets say you want to whip around a rock. With 400 dpi you have to move the mouse by 1cm during it. If you're playing at 2000 dpi you have to do the same motion over 2mm, which is almost impossible. So the lower your sensitivity, the less ridiculous micromovements you have to make. I went as low as i can without running out of mousepad and still able to track 1-2 360s.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
@iceman2kx said:
Your build is meta, there's no issue with that. Maybe try Sloppy or Ruin over Whispers? Totally up to you on that one, but whispers is never a bad choice. If survivors are juking you, you're probably being too predictable. Get right behind them, like you said melee range. Try stalling your chainsaw right around 95% and wait for their 360. Once they try and 360 you, that's your chance to hit them. Also aim your mouse down a little bit (towards Billy's feet), you'll have a better view of the survivors when they try and juke you.As for the window, I'm not sure I understand your question. Maybe rephrase it? As for Q and E, I know there's some pretty advanced moves you can do with Billy at loops, but those are pretty hard to do. I just M1 at loops honestly. I don't even see Zubat usually play like that and he's one of the best Billy's out there. Normally, use Q and E for steering across the map, but just use the mouse for normal chainsaws.
Pro tip. Instead of Q and E, use A and D to body block up close then hit your chainsaw.
Thanks!
I will definitely practice aiming down with the chainsaw.
As for keeping the chainsaw revved at 95%, I don't really see Zubat doing that (as far as I can tell). If he spots someone, he just revs up the chainsaw without pausing and hits the survivor.
Is that because he wasn't being 360'd hard? From my perspective, it looks like his tracking is good enough to not need pausing.
As for the window question, I'll try and rephrase.
There are situations where I catch survivors out in the open. I pull out my saw and the survivor tries to jump through the window. Even though I'm close behind them, the survivor is able to dodge the chainsaw at the last second, causing me to hit the window.Is that a situation where Billy is supposed to win or do you have to predict that they will dodge?
Moreover, sometimes I see Zubat chainsaw someone who is looping the shack.
As the survivor is heading through the doorway, Zubat pulls out the saw and catches the survivor before they can reach the pallet or window (without add ons).Again, is Billy supposed to win this or is it all based on prediction. I.e guessing which way the survivor will fake.
Zubat is using Q and E, so he can react to sudden movements. If you use mouse only, you need some tricks to work around the wonky whip. Hold the chainsaw and see how the survivor jukes. They usually have a predictive pattern and dont change it up much. Some 360 forever, others do wiggles, some spin on the spot etc. Take 2-3 seconds and see how they move, then start the chainsaw when they're starting to turn. That's when they're most vulnerable. Keep on practicing mouse only, it may be inferior to q and e, but its honest and feels much better imo.
Those windows are predictive, you cant react and steer into him if they dodge at the last second. What works most of the time: Bad survivors take the window. Good survivors wont. If a survivors seems competent, just hold the saw and make them "dodge" the window and then you're right behind them for a normal chainsaw.
Also be patient in general. Wait with your hammer till the last moment, they may 360 a window and then you bodyblock it for a chainsaw. When they fall for a fakerev at a pallet, dont hammer him. Rev up the chainsaw and try to nail him if he keeps looping. If he turns back to the loop, bodyblock it. Try and bodyblock everything, really. Wait with your chainsaws aswell, you may get a safer chainsaw opportunity seconds later. They dodge themselves into a wall or tree and then one dodge direction is gone for an easy hit. Its all about consistency and getting chainsaws through bodyblocks.
And for your mouse settings, you need a low sensitivity to control the whip. If you're really into mouse billy and mastering him, you should probably be around 400-1000 dpi (im using 400 dpi 50%). I used to play him at 1200 dpi around the rework, but it lacks real control of the whip since its so sensitive to movement.
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PC here, but i dont have problems with corn blindness. I actually like corn, it has a different kind of skill to hide and search through the corn. Both survivor and killer want to run it in opposite ways. But the jungle gyms and tiles are unfair to play as killer. You cant mindgame them, which means 2-3 vaults for decent survivors. Coupled with the cowtree and strong main buildings, there is not much room to outplay survivors, so it usually results in a loss. In my experience, a lot of "bad" losses are on coldwind farm.
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Selfcare, Botany Knowledge, Balanced Landing, Iron Will
I value the injured health state a lot and use perks to help survive it. BL turns bad spots into good spots and opens up some nasty loops.
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Most maps are survivorfavored, especially coldwind farm, but to pick a few:
Strongest: Coal Tower
Weakest: Fractured Cowshed, Haddonfield, Springwood, Asylum -
@sacredflash said:
@Weederick said:
Play 100 games with your chainsaw only. Forget about the hammer and winning, just focus on planting the chainsaw in their backs. You need a very low sensitivity to control the whip. Hold the chainsaw until you see a good opportunity. Watch their jukes, you'll see a pattern and let go when they start to turn. Sometimes they run themselves into corners. Use bodyblocks to your advantage.
Be patient and only use the hammer as a last resort. As long as you're revving up the chainsaw behind them, you are in control, so dont rush it.
The rest is easy and comes fluidly while playing him M2 only, like mobility and sawing pallets.So I should be running around revving the chainsaw right keeping the bar near complete and once I have an opportunity - go 100% right?
Yes, thats the most consistent way to hit them. Keeping it at a high charge takes some practice, but staying at 60-70% to not overshoot accidentally is alright, unless you're about to go for it, then try to keep it at 90% for the perfect timing.
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@friendlykillermain said:
@Weederick said:
Huntress, Spirit and Myers. They all have a unique playstyle and seem more fleshed out than other killers. Bunnymom, singing her song while throwing hatchets (perfectly balanced aswell). Spirit is so creepy and mindgamey, she's awesome and breaks the game just right. Myers is awesome. He's just watching you, soo creepy. And he has almost no terror radius, a really scary dude.i am disturbed by your name for the huntress never refer to her as that again please
Why? You've had bad experiences with bunny moms? ^^
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Huntress, Spirit and Myers. They all have a unique playstyle and seem more fleshed out than other killers. Bunnymom, singing her song while throwing hatchets (perfectly balanced aswell). Spirit is so creepy and mindgamey, she's awesome and breaks the game just right. Myers is awesome. He's just watching you, soo creepy. And he has almost no terror radius, a really scary dude.
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Play 100 games with your chainsaw only. Forget about the hammer and winning, just focus on planting the chainsaw in their backs. You need a very low sensitivity to control the whip. Hold the chainsaw until you see a good opportunity. Watch their jukes, you'll see a pattern and let go when they start to turn. Sometimes they run themselves into corners. Use bodyblocks to your advantage.
Be patient and only use the hammer as a last resort. As long as you're revving up the chainsaw behind them, you are in control, so dont rush it.
The rest is easy and comes fluidly while playing him M2 only, like mobility and sawing pallets. -
Interesting to see at least. If they make it more worthwhile with actual game impact (like small buffs, keeping a hooked survivor alive etc) and more than just holding M1, it would be more fun. Maybe bring back sabo?
One problem was how overpowered camping becomes with it. The killer could facecamp without issues and win the game. Secondary objectives should include a way to deal with camping. -
Coldwind farm
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@Kamikaze_Rose said:
@Weederick said:
Sprintburst counters stealth killers. It also counters every other killer.Not when Nurse and Billy have infinite Sprint Burst.
Sprintburst is the strongest counter against billy. If you have trouble with billy, use that perk (please dont). Its not worth to chainsaw after a sprintbursting survivor.
Nurse ... can deal with it. As always -
Sprintburst counters stealth killers. It also counters every other killer.
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@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of play@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of playAn experienced nurse vs a coordinated SWF should be a tense match and is probably the most balanced we can get in DBD.
Either you remove both from the game (which wont happen) or the other stuff has to gain more power
I still dont understand why he posts a Git Gud meme, since both are actually overpowered. Overused meme by bad players
They are not overpowered, only nurse and SWF are balanced. Everything else is underpowered.
At least thats the devs logic, becuase they said they dont want to remove/nerf SWF, no they want to lift up solo players to the SWF lvlThey know that swf and nurse is overpowered. When you watch their streams, they talk like normal people and know about the problems in dbd.
Your view is a bit too black and white tbh. I wouldnt exactly call billy underpowered. Or hag, or huntress, or spirit. Or solo survivor with 3 good random survivors. Imo the game is in an acceptable state of balance, except for blinkygirl and 4-swf. And genrush/killrush.As far as I know, the devs have the intention to keep SWF, that means that this is the balance level they aim for. Since nurse is the only killer that stands a chance against everything a SWF can throw at you, she is the only balanced (or maybe even op) killer. All other killers and solo survivors are underpowered since the devs are commiting to the SWF-balance level.
Ok. You find billy underpowered. No need to discuss anything with you, really
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@Incarnate said:
@Weederick said:
@Weederick said:
@Incarnate said:
@Weederick said:
We kinda got used to it, but i'd really like to see equal hitboxes, so we can get the cheese out of the way. Looping is gonna stay, but i think wouldnt complain that much, if the mechanics were actually balanced.I'm pretty sure survivors dont gain 0.4m/s advantage, that would make it possible to infinite slower killers.
Its more than EW1 MYers, since you can infinite him around anything.
So 0.2m/s advantage seems more fitting (or boosting survivors speed to 105%)They told us a year ago they wouldnt touch collision hitboxes, but it doesnt look as complicated to change as i thought. Hopefully they change their mind someday, that was one of the most requested wishes back in 2016.
That was the number given on the previous Q&A session on October 26th 2018, they even did the aproximate math on the devstream, of course they didn't account for every little variable or situation, but it was outright stated that they gain aproximately that amount. On the same Q&A they also so showed the reason why the survivor is gaining this distance to the killer - the difference between the collision capsules and the "tightness" of the turn.
It's values given by the devs, not something I've calculated, it's right here if you for some reason don't believe what I'm saying:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTpZSllfMmw.It's around the 16:37 mark they begin to go into this.
Alright, its 6am and im in the mood for math... i'll try my best to calculate how much an average loop gains. The bigger the tile, the less impact looping has (it gets exponentially worse for smaller loops). Thus the example of a water tower is not very good and they also didnt do the math really, since they only provided absolute values but didnt explain how much a speed increase it gives.
We should care about the loops we actually play with. The average loop is 15-20m long and we're gonna assume its a circle. The circumference is 2piR. Killer radius is 0,5m, survivor radius is 0,45m.For a 15m loop: U=15m=2piR, so the loops radius is R=15m/2pi=2.39m.
The killer loops a 2,89m radius circle, while the survivor loops a 2,84m radius circle. Now we calculate the new circumference for killer and survivor, which is
U(Killer)= 2,89m2pi= 18,15m
U(Survivor)= 2,84m2pi = 17,83m
It takes 3,94s for the killer to loop once (18,15m : 4,6m/s) and 4,45s for the survivor (17,83m : 4m/s).
If the survivor had the same hitbox as the killer, it would take 4,54s to loop once (18,15m : 4m/s).
So the speed increase would be 2% (4,54s : 4,45s).For a 20m loop (R=3,18m):
U(Killer) = 23,15m
U(Survivor) = 22,83m
It takes 5,70s to loop once. And it takes 5,79s if survivors had killers hitboxes.
So the speed increase for a 20m loop would be 1,5% (5,79s : 5,70s)
If survivors had the same hitbox as killers, they would lose out the additional 1,5%-2% of their movement speed, which is ~0,075m/s. The speed difference between killer and survivor is only 0,6m/s or 0,4m/s, so that results in a 14% effective speed increase (0,6m/s : 0,525m/s) against normal killers and a 23% effective speed increase (0,4m/s : 0,325m/s) against slower killers.
Tl;dr: Looping takes around 15% longer to catch up due to hitbox differences (more for slow killers).
Honestly not as much as i expected. I guess other factors play a role like acceleration. Notable is that slower killers are more affected than normal killers from the hitbox abuse.
I'm really tired, so if my math doesnt make sense somewhere, please tell me. I'll sleep for now.It got approved
For everyone who is interested in hitbox abuse and what it does. Please tell me, if the math is wrong. Thats the first time we can calculate the hitbox consequences for dbd.Yeah, that's really annoying when ones post gets flagged for review just because of editting spelling and typos.
I certainly agree, it should absolutely be balanced, it's not that looping in it self is a problem, but it's the fact there are these differences like difference in collision capsule sizes that these issues occur. Fixing the collision capsules wouldn't be something that would take long, that's really just adjusting a value and thats basically it.
It's good that we can finally do some more accurate calculations on this matter, to better reach an understanding of whats actually going on.
So in regards to your calculations, they seem correct, although rounding the numbers could in some cases affect the end result, and also should keep the rounding consistent, like it's actually 4,46s and not 4,45s because you should be rounding up and not down in that specific case, not that it makes any in impactful diffence in this case though. However, in a lot of cases, the looping isn't circular, but more square-like, which obviously also affects the end result.
Acceleration does play a role, but as Mclean said, it's close to a 50'th of a second for killers, obviously this might be different for survivors as they move at 4m/s and the fastest killers at 4,6m/s.
Also, it's collision capsules, not hitboxes but I get what you mean.
So it roughly takes about 15% (more for slower killers) longer to catch up due to collision capsule differences.
And as you said, it gets worse when the loop is actually shorter, like for instance with interior loops which often have windows that means you can much more easily break from the chase, or at least gain great distance from the killer.Didnt expect the numbers to be so low, else i would've used one more decimal. But i think its okay for an estimate overall. If i had to round or estimate things, i tried to favor making looping look strong
The true average is probably more around 12-15% longer, depending on the loops length.
I've chosen circles, since they are easy to calculate. I dont think it makes a noticable difference, if i used other forms like rectangles, considering i was rounding anyways. But when people are more interested in it, i will do more indepth calculations, so far most people are just okay with it.If i had to give to an error range, it would be 10-16% longer, depending on the length of the loop.
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@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of play@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of playAn experienced nurse vs a coordinated SWF should be a tense match and is probably the most balanced we can get in DBD.
Either you remove both from the game (which wont happen) or the other stuff has to gain more power
I still dont understand why he posts a Git Gud meme, since both are actually overpowered. Overused meme by bad players
They are not overpowered, only nurse and SWF are balanced. Everything else is underpowered.
At least thats the devs logic, becuase they said they dont want to remove/nerf SWF, no they want to lift up solo players to the SWF lvlThey know that swf and nurse is overpowered. When you watch their streams, they talk like normal people and know about the problems in dbd.
Your view is a bit too black and white tbh. I wouldnt exactly call billy underpowered. Or hag, or huntress, or spirit. Or solo survivor with 3 good random survivors. Imo the game is in an acceptable state of balance, except for blinkygirl and 4-swf. And genrush/killrush. -
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of play@Weederick said:
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of playAn experienced nurse vs a coordinated SWF should be a tense match and is probably the most balanced we can get in DBD.
Either you remove both from the game (which wont happen) or the other stuff has to gain more power
I still dont understand why he posts a Git Gud meme, since both are actually overpowered. Overused meme by bad players
-
@Global said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So you basically just said SWF is overpowered by saying the only killer that can deal with them is the "op nurse" yea, alright.
Do you think nurse and swf is balanced?
Git Gut, for real. Both things are a joke at high levels of play -
@Dolphin9192 said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
Nurse- Nurse (name pending)
I have been calling her blinky
@Weederick said:
Wraith - Sénior ding dong
Lol is that his porn name
It was actually, during the making of his wax outfit >_<
-
Trapper - Camper, Baby trapper
Wraith - Bing bong boi, Sénior ding dong
Hillbilly - Billy
Nurse - Cheater
Myers - Pedo
Hag - Haggis, Granny, This is my swamp
Doctor - Dooocktah
Huntress - Bunny
Freddy - Sweaterboy
Leatherface - Bubba
Pig - Piggy
Clown - Fatso
Spirit - Spooky girl -
@Weederick said:
@Incarnate said:
@Weederick said:
We kinda got used to it, but i'd really like to see equal hitboxes, so we can get the cheese out of the way. Looping is gonna stay, but i think wouldnt complain that much, if the mechanics were actually balanced.I'm pretty sure survivors dont gain 0.4m/s advantage, that would make it possible to infinite slower killers.
Its more than EW1 MYers, since you can infinite him around anything.
So 0.2m/s advantage seems more fitting (or boosting survivors speed to 105%)They told us a year ago they wouldnt touch collision hitboxes, but it doesnt look as complicated to change as i thought. Hopefully they change their mind someday, that was one of the most requested wishes back in 2016.
That was the number given on the previous Q&A session on October 26th 2018, they even did the aproximate math on the devstream, of course they didn't account for every little variable or situation, but it was outright stated that they gain aproximately that amount. On the same Q&A they also so showed the reason why the survivor is gaining this distance to the killer - the difference between the collision capsules and the "tightness" of the turn.
It's values given by the devs, not something I've calculated, it's right here if you for some reason don't believe what I'm saying:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTpZSllfMmw.It's around the 16:37 mark they begin to go into this.
Alright, its 6am and im in the mood for math... i'll try my best to calculate how much an average loop gains. The bigger the tile, the less impact looping has (it gets exponentially worse for smaller loops). Thus the example of a water tower is not very good and they also didnt do the math really, since they only provided absolute values but didnt explain how much a speed increase it gives.
We should care about the loops we actually play with. The average loop is 15-20m long and we're gonna assume its a circle. The circumference is 2piR. Killer radius is 0,5m, survivor radius is 0,45m.For a 15m loop: U=15m=2piR, so the loops radius is R=15m/2pi=2.39m.
The killer loops a 2,89m radius circle, while the survivor loops a 2,84m radius circle. Now we calculate the new circumference for killer and survivor, which is
U(Killer)= 2,89m2pi= 18,15m
U(Survivor)= 2,84m2pi = 17,83m
It takes 3,94s for the killer to loop once (18,15m : 4,6m/s) and 4,45s for the survivor (17,83m : 4m/s).
If the survivor had the same hitbox as the killer, it would take 4,54s to loop once (18,15m : 4m/s).
So the speed increase would be 2% (4,54s : 4,45s).For a 20m loop (R=3,18m):
U(Killer) = 23,15m
U(Survivor) = 22,83m
It takes 5,70s to loop once. And it takes 5,79s if survivors had killers hitboxes.
So the speed increase for a 20m loop would be 1,5% (5,79s : 5,70s)
If survivors had the same hitbox as killers, they would lose out the additional 1,5%-2% of their movement speed, which is ~0,075m/s. The speed difference between killer and survivor is only 0,6m/s or 0,4m/s, so that results in a 14% effective speed increase (0,6m/s : 0,525m/s) against normal killers and a 23% effective speed increase (0,4m/s : 0,325m/s) against slower killers.
Tl;dr: Looping takes around 15% longer to catch up due to hitbox differences (more for slow killers).
Honestly not as much as i expected. I guess other factors play a role like acceleration. Notable is that slower killers are more affected than normal killers from the hitbox abuse.
I'm really tired, so if my math doesnt make sense somewhere, please tell me. I'll sleep for now.It got approved
For everyone who is interested in hitbox abuse and what it does. Please tell me, if the math is wrong. Thats the first time we can calculate the hitbox consequences for dbd. -
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@MegMain98 said:
Spirit is top tier if you play her correctly. She is like a slightly weaker Nurse. She can have insane map pressure and one of only three killers (Nurse and Billy) in the game whos ability let’s them traverse across the map quickly. She can be sneaky with her lower terror radius especially if you have the “Prayer Beads” add-ons. You can’t pick her up for the first time and expect a 4K. She takes time get used to, she is a mind gaming killer. I do mainly play Spirit, it used to be Myers but I honestly like Spirit the best. She is highly underrated if anything. I’d put her in the Top 5 killers in the game easily.Provide footage where she deals with a competent SWF. (might even use her best addons cus she is addon reliant lul)
So far noone was able to show that and I have never experienced it myselfBeing in the top 5 doesn't mean you handle a competent SWF
I responded to someone claiming she is top tier, not top 5.
I agree, she is top 5, but she isnt even close to top tier
I think you just have a different interpretation of "top tier" than everyone else. Nurse isn't in top tier, she's above it.
"top" tier is literally defined as the highest tier.
If you dont understand that, then I will end the discussion here lol
You're a master at missing the point and not reading others posts, before posting your own interpretation of a question, that has already been answered.
-
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@MegMain98 said:
Spirit is top tier if you play her correctly. She is like a slightly weaker Nurse. She can have insane map pressure and one of only three killers (Nurse and Billy) in the game whos ability let’s them traverse across the map quickly. She can be sneaky with her lower terror radius especially if you have the “Prayer Beads” add-ons. You can’t pick her up for the first time and expect a 4K. She takes time get used to, she is a mind gaming killer. I do mainly play Spirit, it used to be Myers but I honestly like Spirit the best. She is highly underrated if anything. I’d put her in the Top 5 killers in the game easily.Provide footage where she deals with a competent SWF. (might even use her best addons cus she is addon reliant lul)
So far noone was able to show that and I have never experienced it myselfBeing in the top 5 doesn't mean you handle a competent SWF
I responded to someone claiming she is top tier, not top 5.
I agree, she is top 5, but she isnt even close to top tier
Its just your definition of toptier. A tier is not a single spot. They're not competing about the top spot, but the toptier.
Also, most people dont think about nurse when they discuss balance. They make a tierlist and then they put nurse on #1.If you talk about power tiers, then you put killers whose power are comparable onto the same tier.
Do you wanna argue with me that spirit is comparable to nurse? Because imo she clearly isnt and that simply makes her a non-toptier killer.
And yes, of course you start with the strongest killer if we talk about tiers (thats why its called top tier btw)
I base it on OBVIOUS power differences. There's an obvious gap between midtier killers and toptier killers.
I dont put billy into midtier, that is stupid. And for rank 1 games, there is an OBVIOUS difference between playing toptier killers and midtier killers. Thats why i dont call them midtier, but toptier, since they perform on a toptier level. -
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@MegMain98 said:
Spirit is top tier if you play her correctly. She is like a slightly weaker Nurse. She can have insane map pressure and one of only three killers (Nurse and Billy) in the game whos ability let’s them traverse across the map quickly. She can be sneaky with her lower terror radius especially if you have the “Prayer Beads” add-ons. You can’t pick her up for the first time and expect a 4K. She takes time get used to, she is a mind gaming killer. I do mainly play Spirit, it used to be Myers but I honestly like Spirit the best. She is highly underrated if anything. I’d put her in the Top 5 killers in the game easily.Provide footage where she deals with a competent SWF. (might even use her best addons cus she is addon reliant lul)
So far noone was able to show that and I have never experienced it myselfBeing in the top 5 doesn't mean you handle a competent SWF
I responded to someone claiming she is top tier, not top 5.
I agree, she is top 5, but she isnt even close to top tier
Its just your definition of toptier. A tier is not a single spot. They're not competing about the top spot, but the toptier.
Also, most people dont think about nurse when they discuss balance. They make a tierlist and then they put nurse on #1. -
Still waiting for the mod to approve my post...
I did the math for over an hour yesterday, how much exactly looping affects the movement speed. Edited it 3 times and now it doesnt show -.- that is dissappointing! It took me a lot of efforts mods.
@Peanits Can you free my post please? -
@Incarnate said:
@Weederick said:
We kinda got used to it, but i'd really like to see equal hitboxes, so we can get the cheese out of the way. Looping is gonna stay, but i think wouldnt complain that much, if the mechanics were actually balanced.I'm pretty sure survivors dont gain 0.4m/s advantage, that would make it possible to infinite slower killers.
Its more than EW1 MYers, since you can infinite him around anything.
So 0.2m/s advantage seems more fitting (or boosting survivors speed to 105%)They told us a year ago they wouldnt touch collision hitboxes, but it doesnt look as complicated to change as i thought. Hopefully they change their mind someday, that was one of the most requested wishes back in 2016.
That was the number given on the previous Q&A session on October 26th 2018, they even did the aproximate math on the devstream, of course they didn't account for every little variable or situation, but it was outright stated that they gain aproximately that amount. On the same Q&A they also so showed the reason why the survivor is gaining this distance to the killer - the difference between the collision capsules and the "tightness" of the turn.
It's values given by the devs, not something I've calculated, it's right here if you for some reason don't believe what I'm saying:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTpZSllfMmw.It's around the 16:37 mark they begin to go into this.
Alright, its 6am and im in the mood for math... i'll try my best to calculate how much an average loop gains. The bigger the tile, the less impact looping has (it gets exponentially worse for smaller loops). Thus the example of a water tower is not very good and they also didnt do the math really, since they only provided absolute values but didnt explain how much a speed increase it gives.
We should care about the loops we actually play with. The average loop is 15-20m long and we're gonna assume its a circle. The circumference is 2piR. Killer radius is 0,5m, survivor radius is 0,45m.For a 15m loop: U=15m=2piR, so the loops radius is R=15m/2pi=2.39m.
The killer loops a 2,89m radius circle, while the survivor loops a 2,84m radius circle. Now we calculate the new circumference for killer and survivor, which is
U(Killer)= 2,89m2pi= 18,15m
U(Survivor)= 2,84m2pi = 17,83m
It takes 3,94s for the killer to loop once (18,15m : 4,6m/s) and 4,45s for the survivor (17,83m : 4m/s).
If the survivor had the same hitbox as the killer, it would take 4,54s to loop once (18,15m : 4m/s).
So the speed increase would be 2% (4,54s : 4,45s).For a 20m loop (R=3,18m):
U(Killer) = 23,15m
U(Survivor) = 22,83m
It takes 5,70s to loop once. And it takes 5,79s if survivors had killers hitboxes.
So the speed increase for a 20m loop would be 1,5% (5,79s : 5,70s)
If survivors had the same hitbox as killers, they would lose out the additional 1,5%-2% of their movement speed, which is ~0,075m/s. The speed difference between killer and survivor is only 0,6m/s or 0,4m/s, so that results in a 14% effective speed increase (0,6m/s : 0,525m/s) against normal killers and a 23% effective speed increase (0,4m/s : 0,325m/s) against slower killers.
Tl;dr: Looping takes around 15% longer to catch up due to hitbox differences (more for slow killers).
Honestly not as much as i expected. I guess other factors play a role like acceleration. Notable is that slower killers are more affected than normal killers from the hitbox abuse.
I'm really tired, so if my math doesnt make sense somewhere, please tell me. I'll sleep for now. -
We kinda got used to it, but i'd really like to see equal hitboxes, so we can get the cheese out of the way. Looping is gonna stay, but i think wouldnt complain that much, if the mechanics were actually balanced.
I'm pretty sure survivors dont gain 0.4m/s advantage, that would make it possible to infinite slower killers.
Its more than EW1 MYers, since you can infinite him around anything.
So 0.2m/s advantage seems more fitting (or boosting survivors speed to 105%)They told us a year ago they wouldnt touch collision hitboxes, but it doesnt look as complicated to change as i thought. Hopefully they change their mind someday, that was one of the most requested wishes back in 2016.
-
@Wolf74 said:
@Weederick said:
@Wolf74 said:
I am playing this game for 2 years now and I am very active in the forums and literally EVERY time I heard people talk about "instabilly" it was about chargetime.It's not like I made this up or claim it to be MY "definition", it's just weird that I never heard about your version before.
I even checked some old forum posts and from the og billy mains i remember, most say carburettor + thompson mix is the best. Also every billy at highranks is using this combo and not primer bulb. Trust me, its better.
I am not arguing about effectivness, I just never heard it being called "instabilly".
So I am confused.I guess people instinctively think about the instant charge time when they read instabilly. How would you call this chainsaw without cooldown.... hm.... spambilly... no cooldown billy... sounds weird. ^^
-
@Wolf74 said:
I am playing this game for 2 years now and I am very active in the forums and literally EVERY time I heard people talk about "instabilly" it was about chargetime.It's not like I made this up or claim it to be MY "definition", it's just weird that I never heard about your version before.
I even checked some old forum posts and from the og billy mains i remember, most say carburettor + thompson mix is the best. Also every billy at highranks is using this combo and not primer bulb. Trust me, its better.
-
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
Weederick said:@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.
It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.
@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...
No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.
Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.
Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her
Then you're terrible with billy, hag, spirit and huntress. They dont have to come close to a broken concept to be toptier.
Do you seriously believe that any killer can get close to a competent nurse?
I told you multiple times already, that nurse is overpowered unlike others. And you keep asking me why i think they're equal. Please learn to read. I also dont ask you, why you think that nurse is the weakest killer.
-
@Wolf74 said:
@Weederick said:
@Wolf74 said:
"Instabilly" is basically already gone after the Tinkerer nerf, so don't make it bigger than it is.
Instabilly is having no relevant cooldown(!) and chargetime, so you can spam someone to death with terrible chainsaws and no skill from any range without any punishment. Tinkerer is not needed for that, the strongest part about instabilly is the cooldown.
If they would balance the addons and tune it around -20% maximum like huntress, it would be fine. But they are way too overtuned.Instabilly was always about fast charging, not cooldown.
Tinker+Primer Bulb+Carburettor Tuning Guide
I have never before heard about your interpretation of instabilly.Not wanna be rude, but thats not instabilly.
Carburettor + Thompson Mix is the best combo and instabilly. And its about the cooldown, if you ask other real billy mains. Most hold it even with instabilly, since its more reliable to hit people. Having no cooldown makes it irrelevant though wether you hit or miss and THAT is stupid. -
@Master said:
Weederick said:@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.
It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.
@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...
No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.
Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard.
Nurse is the only top tier killer, no other killer gets even close to her
Then you're terrible with billy, hag, spirit and huntress. They dont have to come close to a broken concept to be toptier.
-
@Soren said:
@Blueberry said:
@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.
@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...
While I agree on her needing a little more baked into her base kit and addons adjusted accordingly, I heavily disagree on her only being mid tier. I'd put her above probably anything but nurse and billy. Hag does not even come close to "GUARENTEE" hit every trap. Unlike the spirit she is heavily countered by non idiots that know what they're doing. Spirit is much more consistent and harder to counter. I 4k probably 8/10 games with her at rank 1 consistently, she's a lot better than you think she is. (this is primarily only yellow addons btw)
A good Hag has no counter other than genrushing. It's as simple as that. She is even stronger than Nurse in chase, because Nurse can be juked, while a good trap will prevent any play from the survivor side, because of the camera flick which is an utterly strong mechanic while mastered.
An example of a (really) short chase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNELNUdZUQAn example of a strong camera flick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6wSAmlyvK4Regular game when you have a perfect web:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EtrJ3aJGzwBecause of her limits, Spirit relies on a very strong prediction in order to do great. Her charge animation, relatively slow phase speed, and short duration forces her to do wild guesses in chase - you have only one chance.
Because of that, and after you hit a first time, you have to make a choice: either use your power to close the gap and waste an additional time being looped while on cooldown, or assume they will try to reach a safe location to cheese a hit from the other side - for example, looping counter-clock the cow tree or a main building.
This is not what I call a "viable" power. I'm a strong Spirit, I have excellent games, but I am not allowed to do any mistake AND survivors need to screw up in order to down them quickly. Not even talking about Dead Hard which is an extreme nightmare to deal with since it forces you on cooldown.
Fortunately, survivors are utterly bad at mindgames and also pretty predictable. But anyone with a bit of braincell can outplay Spirit, and then the best choice is to switch to a weaker target, which does not make Spirit a great killer.
Regarding spirit, i see it different tbh. She's more like nurse, its about the killers skill that matters. The survivor can do some jukes and make it hard, but the spirit has the power in the chase. It feels right.
You dont want to phase immediately after a hit, since you dont reach a survivor as you said. Just chase him for ~5s after a hit and then go phase. That way you use it as gap closer AND a hit. Instead of using it to catch up and then chasing for 5s, you chase them for 5s first and then you use your power to both catch up and mindgame.
Or you use Stbfl, then you can do whatever you want and save cooldown on top. -
@Wolf74 said:
@Weederick said:
I think instabilly is the most obvious problem about billy right now. Since you can spam the chainsaw over and over and over and over until you get lucky. It takes all the skill and punishment away. I've seen plenty of "event instabillys" over the last weeks and i can see why people complain about those billys. No charge time and no cooldown is broken. A normal billy without addons is fair, since you're really punished for missing chainsaws and you cant just use it as a gap closer. If you miss one, you lose a lot of time. If you miss two, its generally gg at highranks. But instabilly... jeez
"Instabilly" is basically already gone after the Tinkerer nerf, so don't make it bigger than it is.
Instabilly is having no relevant cooldown(!) and chargetime, so you can spam someone to death with terrible chainsaws and no skill from any range without any punishment. Tinkerer is not needed for that, the strongest part about instabilly is the cooldown.
If they would balance the addons and tune it around -20% maximum like huntress, it would be fine. But they are way too overtuned.> @The_Crusader said:Weederick said:
@The_Crusader said:
Both are true. LF is too weak, Billy is too strong. Billy with the right add ons can pull off insta downs at anytime. On top of that he crosses the map in like 5 seconds. Add in BBQ and Tinkerer and you have someone who can be on a gen seconds after hooking the last guy, about to knock down and get a second hook before the survivors have even had a chsnce to pull the first one off the hook.
It sucks when you get teammates who don't know how to.dodge him or get caught in bad positions. You can barely unhook one before he's hooling the other.
I feel it's his instadown that's the problem. As others have said he isn't slowed down in the way that LF is so there's less balance.
I think instabilly is the most obvious problem about billy right now. Since you can spam the chainsaw over and over and over and over until you get lucky. It takes all the skill and punishment away. I've seen plenty of "event instabillys" over the last weeks and i can see why people complain about those billys. No charge time and no cooldown is broken. A normal billy without addons is fair, since you're really punished for missing chainsaws and you cant just use it as a gap closer. If you miss one, you lose a lot of time. If you miss two, its generally gg at highranks. But instabilly... jeez
Yes that's exactly it. Are you a billy main? Asking because of your picture.
I've seen loads over the event too. Never ended well. Some were in fact useless and missed a lot of shots but in the end managed one or two lucky hits in succession and that gives them a lot of.momentum.
And that's the problem like you said, you can just keep trying over and over again and eventually you'll hit.
Yep, billy main. Right, a lot of them are getting carried purely through the addons. They miss so many chainsaws and go for chainsaws that cant possibly hit, but they get rewarded since its a gap closer without cooldown. And then they start spamming you to death. Hold M2 until the game ends. Sad man...
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@The_Crusader said:
Both are true. LF is too weak, Billy is too strong. Billy with the right add ons can pull off insta downs at anytime. On top of that he crosses the map in like 5 seconds. Add in BBQ and Tinkerer and you have someone who can be on a gen seconds after hooking the last guy, about to knock down and get a second hook before the survivors have even had a chsnce to pull the first one off the hook.It sucks when you get teammates who don't know how to.dodge him or get caught in bad positions. You can barely unhook one before he's hooling the other.
I feel it's his instadown that's the problem. As others have said he isn't slowed down in the way that LF is so there's less balance.
I think instabilly is the most obvious problem about billy right now. Since you can spam the chainsaw over and over and over and over until you get lucky. It takes all the skill and punishment away. I've seen plenty of "event instabillys" over the last weeks and i can see why people complain about those billys. No charge time and no cooldown is broken. A normal billy without addons is fair, since you're really punished for missing chainsaws and you cant just use it as a gap closer. If you miss one, you lose a lot of time. If you miss two, its generally gg at highranks. But instabilly... jeez
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@Soren said:
For one year, people asked for Hag to have movement speed, thanks god devs did not listen to them, and eventually everyone agreed their cube was far better than a straightforward 115% movement speed.It's not what Spirit needs. She doesn't need faster movement speed (she belongs to the category of killers who need to use their power to chase), she doesn't need easier learning curve. The issue with Spirit is that her base kit is pretty poor - rather low phase movement speed and duration makes her patrol pretty poor, and her charge animation is a bit too slow and makes you waste distance in chase. Better base kit, and nerf her addons to compensate, and she will be a solid mid tier killer.
@Weederick Spirit is weak to every single chase mechanic of the game and her power has counters. She has too many limits to be considered top tier, while the Hag, another "slow" killer, can GUARANTEE a hit out of every single trap, can counter every single chase mechanic, has the best map control and snowball. Spirit is, at best, mid tier WITH strong addons (green). There's a reason every Spirit I face in rank 1 spams purple addons...
No doubt that Hag is toptier, she and billy are king and queen of map control. Spirit and Huntress are lower toptier in comparison.
Spirits only limit is her cooldown imo. Her chase is one of the best, since there is no real counterplay as survivor. You can crouch, double back and what not, but in the end, the spirit player can anticipate and counter all of that. I still think that you can't counterplay a patient spirit. She can observe you and start her phase anytime to catch you offguard. -
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh
Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, HuntressIf SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?
Ahh so remove SWF and nerf nurse?
I kinda agree, that would make the game more balanced
KInda, if it was that easy :P
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@Master said:
@Weederick said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
So nurse is the only one that can deal with SWF, still you claim she is overpowered and put other killers onto the same tier as her? I dont get this tbh
Op tier: Nurse
Toptier: Billy, Hag, Spirit, HuntressIf SWF is overpowered and nurse can deal with it, she is...?
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@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Blueberry said:
@Master said:
@Weederick said:
Spirit is toptierI still havent seen a single spirit demolishing a competent SWF.
If you know any, please provide the footage such that spirit plebs like me can learn.Who demolishes SWF besides nurse? Top tier doesn't mean you demolish SWF
Noone, thats exactly my point. nurse is and most likely will be the only top tier killer.
If you cant deal with a competent SWF as spirit, then she clearly isnt top tier
You're not following my point. Top tier does not mean you demolish SWF
Right now nurse is the only killer that can deal with a competent SWF (Feel free to disprove that), that makes her top tier.
Any other killer that doesnt manage to do the same is clearly not on the same tier as nurse, do we need to discuss that?
You are misunderstanding what I am saying AGAIN. Stop and read what I am typing slowly. I am telling you yes nurse IS the only killer that can deal with SWF, I never said anything otherwise. Top tier =/= being able to handle SWF, that is not what top tier means.
What does top tier mean in your opinion?
or is nurse hyper tier?
(usually top tier is the highest one^^)Nurse is overpowered, thats why she can deal with swf and no one else. Nurse, Billy, Hag, Spirit and Huntress are all toptier, since they deal different with chase and time management and can generally win most games at rank 1.
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@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
I ordered a NOED counter guide off of MLGDBDPros.com and it’s worked wonders. Idk the legality of me c&p premium content here for all to see for free, but the guide has been so effective and is so well written, I gotta share. Here is the step by step guide:- Cleanse totems
And that’s it. Well worth the $39 I paid for the guide. The bottoms of the pages even have bonus tips. Page 1 says “Run Small Game” and Page 2 says “Run Detectives Hunch”. It works amazing.
Pay2win, shame on you
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Spirit is toptier
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@ComelyStar said:
My gal, I haven't changed her since the Store got released.
L3 Meg looks so good. I wish i prestiged her back then, I'd even trade my lost L3 billy :'(
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100% more bloodpoints in the sacrifice category
fun killer incoming -
@AnotherRandy said:
Judgement said:You can use macros. Even streamers use macros for wiggling and struggling.
The particular program you use for the macros though might have an effect. However, macros don't alter the game's files in any way, so you should be fine.
"should" is to risky for me you know, I don't want to risk my 1k hrs account for that. But I also don't want to lose the opportunity to use it if it's allowed, cuz u can imagine how exhausting wiggling and struggling is after 1k hrs playtime
Macros are a greyzone, we dont like to talk about it, since it is not allowed, but secretly, most people do it. Iirc they look out for autohotkey specifically, since they can detect it, but if you use razer software (or any other brands software with macros), they cant detect it and its safe. If you dont have gaming software, you can rebind struggle to mousewheel up or down.
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The spirit changes were perfect. Im surprised how well thought the buffs were, they knew what they were doing with spirit.
F for Freddy
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Did i just stumple into the forum therapy room? Whats happening
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Used to be scarred hand. Now my guess would be either one of the many speed limiters or myers mirrors, since you can infinite him around everything.
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Quentin is a human?!
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Working as intended. You're just falling to killerbait. Dont drop the pallet when you know you get hit.