Visionmaker
Visionmaker
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541506#Comment_541506
They should announce problem perks and addons whose exploits could possibly be bannable ASAP every single time. It raises awareness so people don't accidentally run said problems, it's a courtesy, it's professional, and it's transparent without leaving any doubt whatsoever.
What you call coddling is what I call common decency. But whatever
Every. Single. Time. What a farce. What should be expected is that players do not abuse bugs they discover. They report it.
Instead what we have now is ineffective hand-holding that has led to callous abuse. It is not professional to shirk your own rules, it is idiotic and negligent. By allowing players to abuse bugs to this extent, legitimate players who refrain from cheating are harmed.
BHVR has records of player behavior. They know what is incidental and what is intentional. They have established this. You may stop using innocent players as scapegoats now.
Furthermore, it is not unprofessional for BHVR to defends its game from people who wish to ruin it for others. It is expected.
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541499#Comment_541499
By announcing it. Just flat banning people without a word after we already have a precedent isn't good for Behavior either.
They already announced it last time. Now the playerbase thinks it is appropriate to exploit bugs until BHVR makes an announcement. We are not children needing to be warned. Every player already understands that exploiting is against the ToS. Your suggestion is juvenile as was BHVR's approach.
And it is not necessary to BAN people, hardly anyone literally means to permaban someone for using a perk. But a short suspension is appropriate and it is not going to be the end of their world.
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541471#Comment_541471
Another reason why it's behavior's fault. You said they started this by coddling, well again they set that precedent and it's time to be transparent about it. The moment they announce / warn of bans for it is the moment most players will stop using it. Why not do that instead of letting the community argue and get at each other's throats over whether or not people will/will not get banned for it?
All of it could've been avoided.
I already gave you the reason why. The community is coddled because of the precedent they set and they need to change their approach.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541418#Comment_541418
Legion addons make MENDING take longer, they don't slow down every action. And again, last time this happened Legion players got banned for it so try again.
I noticed you said Perks and Addons, plural so give me another one... again anything nearly as OP as the Wake up perk.
... That's why it's bugged. It doesn't do what it is intended to do. Test it before responding, please.
PWYF and Thanatophobia are both bugged too. Don't be absurd.
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@MasonMyers69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541471#Comment_541471
Some people may not know it's an exploit, they may just want to use the perk
Oh, what a coincidence not to notice 15% action speed bonus in everything, despite a bright yellow bar. What a coincidence that they only started using the perk when it became known it was broken. After using it only 1% of their games over the last year, they suddenly used it in every game over the last week. What a coincidence their entire team is using Wake Up all of the sudden.
Must be innocent. 100%.
Oh. My hand slipped and hit "Leave Match" 5 matches in a row. I didn't know!
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@rch614 said:
I agree. And they already set two precedents with how they handled bugged perks and addons in the past. 1) they didn't ban for two other bugged and massively game breaking bugs: Tinkerer and Sloppy Butcher. 2) They announced the Legion blades bug and warned that bans would be carried out against them if they continued using them.
They need to put a notice Ingame for everything currently bugged, but especially Wake Up and Blades (again.)
They do not need to do such a dumb and pointless thing to enforce their own rules. Every player already knows that it's a reportable offense to exploit bugs. They shouldn't be cheating in the first place.
People are so callously abusing it now because of the comatose way they coddled people for exploits in the past. Everyone knows they can get away with it, scott-free.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541333#Comment_541333
To be honest, I haven't seen very many people abusing the bugs at all.
I've seen zero Legions abuse it (although I've only seen two Legions) and only two survivors use Wake Up on my end.
Ironic when people say sooo many survivors abuse it so it'll ruin queues if they get punished!
Either way, there needs to be a message sent, both in an announcement and through penalties. Exploitation of bugs to gain an advantage is not and will never be tolerated.
People keep D/Cing. People keep abusing players in end-game chat. And now, people grab every opportunity to cheat and get away with it. Clearly, the devs have done a poor job at enforcing the rules they set and they need to change their approach, ASAP.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541399#Comment_541399
You do know that there's a huge pop-up news screen when you open the game they can use to give warnings right? Just like they did with the Legion exploit a few months ago.
Obviously that didn't do any good since people now just assume they can abuse exploits until the devs do a stupid announcement.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541391#Comment_541391
Please tell me WHAT killer perk/addon is this busted right now, this OP? We are talking about 15% speed boost to all actions.
It is a survivor vs killer issue, like someone said when the Legion addon was broken BHVR put on the log in screen if you used them you risked being banned... where is that now?
For instance, Legion's addons do the exact opposite of Wake Up.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541373#Comment_541373
If Spirit had a bug that let her see survivors while phasing and moving faster Survivors would be in uproars and "boycotting," complaining Killers only want "easy mode." But since this is a survivor bug it's all good.
Killers have broken perks and addons right now too. It's not a survivor vs killer issue.
People are cheating on both sides, and many of those people are coming out of the wood works today.
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@Redd said:
I unlocked and was using Thanataphobia III on Ghostface yesterday because I had no idea it was bugged; and it was one of the only Tier 3 perks I had on him. Now that I found that out today, I will not use it anymore, but I'm not sure how I would have realized it was bugged without coming to the forums.
Obviously bugs would be case by case, but some exploits are far more apparent than others.
Again, a player's perk record should be taken into consideration.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541317#Comment_541317
But that's just it: it wouldn't be a double-standard. People being banned for DCs, and anyone punished for all the balance-related exploits hitherto, first received clear warnings to stop doing whatever they were doing. That's why no one would feel bad for such people getting punished. But that same warning is what everyone is expecting before any action is taken over this latest round of bugs.
And since when did people repeatedly D/Cing receive clear warnings? And why should they do the same for people who are very clearly cheating to gain an advantage?
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They can and should do both.
The fact that the devs are being slow and passive is what is causing so many players to intentionally cheat in the game.
There will always be bugs in this game, but it ridiculous that so many posters here have the idea that it is acceptable to intentionally use exploits until the devs say something about it.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541272#Comment_541272
Banning current and future customers over fixable exploits is simply bad business. There's a huge difference between rightfully blaming people who abuse those bugs and bashing the devs for not being so draconian.
Customers or not, people are not entitled to services if they are intentionally ruining if for everyone else. People who intentionally exploit are few and far in between, and if it is a common occurence, then punishment is even more necessary.
Besides, no one is arguing permabans. That is ridiculous. But a suspension for not following the ToS is entirely warranted.
An obvious double standard is that you would not defend people getting punished for repeated D/Cs over the irrelevant fact that they paid for the game.
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@fluffymareep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/540964#Comment_540964
It really isn't a 50-50 comparison. People could be unaware they're doing something bad if they don't read the forums. I saw someone using Wake Up earlier and just assumed he was running a Kill My Team build since he had WGLF, too, and no BT or We'll Make It.
It's using something that's within the game and getting punished instead of them just fixing it. It'd be like giving someone a group of balls with varying shapes that they can play with, seeing they're using a green one, and punishing them for it because its shape gives it an advantage or something like that (due to being slightly damaged).
Those bugs can't really be used to hold the game hostage, so they probably won't ban anyone for either. I hope they do get around to fixing them with the next patch, though, at the very least.
Can you argue that a player who has used Wake Up less than 1% of the games before the GF suddenly jumps to using Wake Up in every perk build now is "unaware"? There is a clear difference between casually changing up your build and intentionally abusing a broken perk to your advantage.
Exploiting bugs is a bannable offense. It is easy for the devs to discern intentional abuse and unintentional use. There is no compelling reason not to punish players for exploitation. Why have rules at all when there is no punishment for breaking them?
The devs are pushovers and the only thing players have learned is that they can ruin games with it for as long as they can and get away with it.
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@GrootDude said:
@Visionmaker yes, they used the green one.
There's your answer.
It decreases action speed at the moment. Unfortunately it's not visual. I think it even makes your vaulting slower.
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Nasty Blade and Filthy Blade add ons are bugged.
Were they using those?
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That's not autoaim. Check your mouse settings and then your mouse itself.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541000#Comment_541000
I'll make sure to remember that! Wake up is one of the easier bugs to figure out if people are intentionally abusing it though if a survivor who has almost never run it before suddenly out of the blue runs it they are abusing it. The devs should ban for bug abuse IF ITS CLEAR THAT IT'S BEING ABUSED. Because there are innocent people that don't know but I am pretty sure the people usin wake up out of the blue are abusing it. It's kinda sad that the devs need to put out a notice that they are banning for a bug. You don't see that in other games the devs just ban people that are abusing it.
Agreed. The difference between use and abuse is obvious to anyone that has access to records. Yet the devs here are pushovers compared to devs in other games and it is clear that it fed into the toxicity of this community.
I cannot believe that some are so unbashed in their entitlement to ruin games like this and yet still have the gall to either lie or proclaim they shouldn't get punished-- and people are only doing this because the devs never punished them in the past.
This rampant abuse is the direct result of the dev's lack of action.
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@Entità said:
Any rule, before becoming mandatory for anyone, must be made public: if the developers wish to ban those who use the bugged perk, they must publish an announcement in the game, similar to the patch notes, which is impossible to miss. Players are not required to consult the forum or to read up on any hidden programming defects, and cannot be punished for having used a resource (perk, add-on, offering ...) legitimately unlocked and made available according to the ordinary mechanics of play (Bloodweb, Shrine of Secrets), unless this prohibition is brought to the attention of all people with appropriate means of publicity.
Exploiting bugs is already against the Terms of Service. They already announced what is bannable from the beginning. The announcement for the Legion exploit was merely a courtesy, and it is obvious that it gave the wrong message to the playerbase.
You don't need to make up imaginary rules for the owners of the game to follow, and there's no feigning ignorance when you consistently used a broken mechanic only at the exact time it is broken.
For everyone's reference:
Hello, good people of the fog! We now have a team Associate Community Managers, as well as an updated in-game report system. -
@[Deleted User] said:
Enforce what? the fact that their Q&A is ######### or that they release updates knowing it contains gamebreaking bugs?
Enforce the fact that just because you find a bug doesn't mean you should be abusing it every game?
But you shouldn't have anything to worry about if you didn't do that.
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@Keene_Kills said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/540951#Comment_540951
Nobody said it was a "more valid" form. But the devs hold the cards here, they've made no immediate moves (like Legion ban) in a viable time span. There's nothing to deter the cheaters abusing this exploit. You'd find the best solution to be sitting back and just letting this play through on its own?
I disagree completely... folks who knowingly abuse bugs and exploits are the lowest scrape of the barrel. Can't stand a cheater and it's rather worrisome that so many in this community are taking the "don't hate the exploiter, hate the game" mentality.
No wonder this community is infamously known as one of the most vile and toxic in current gaming. Too many with 0 morals and froth at the mouth over streamers who show them the way.
You know there's a problem when people argue that doing something wrong intentionally and causing harm to others is somehow defensible.
It's clear that some people don't want a solution because they are part of the problem.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Wait I know about bugs with wake up but what's wrong with Legion add-ons? I am asking because I use legion quite a bit currently and wouldn't want to put on a combo that is game breaking.
The bug makes it so the addons reduces survivor action speeds.
Oh, don't worry. According to some of the posters here, it's totally fine to abuse it to your hearts content because the devs (and the innocent players you ruin games for) are the ones who are wrong here! [/sarcasm]
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/540964#Comment_540964
Completely different situations. But alright.
Keep telling yourself that.
The quality of the game will drop if the devs don't put their foot down on exploiters. They are intentionally ruining multiple games and it is obvious that they are the loudest majority here because they have the most to lose for their own actions.
The devs have the responsibility to prevent AND punish exploits. Discovering an unpatched bug or exploit doesn't give any one of us free reign to abuse it until the devs do something about it. It's such an obviously ######### up mentality.
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@Carpemortum said:
Just tried legions blades in kyf.
They do not seem to be bugged. At all. 4 mends the same time to fix.
The bug makes it so the addons reduces survivor action speeds.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/540585#Comment_540585
People who think punishing the players is more valid a means than fixing the bug or disabling the perk are far worse than the people who use the perk knowing it's bugged.
Oh that's funny.
"I know I was intentionally stealing twenty bucks from the guy every time I saw him! It was his fault for keeping his bag out in the open where I could steal it! I'm not the bad guy, he is for wanting the police to punish me!"
My lord, some people have such a wayward moral compass when they're caught red handed.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
Thanatophobia is bugged also, they should ban those people using it as well.
PWYF is also bugged.
This patch is just full of surprises.
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No. The raffle is only for those who finished it within the first hour, which eliminated most of the world on a work day. :)
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We're all recovering hookers here. No worries.
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They’re too strong for how common they are.
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Only if they make Hex skill checks reward more BP.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/537039#Comment_537039
They also could have just disabled one of the add-ons when the bug was well-known instead of letting people continue to exploit it.
BHVR likes to shove a lot of its responsibilities off to its player base rather than owning up to the fact that their game is a spaghetti-coded mess. They're too much about maintaining schedules that they couldn't even bother stopping people from doing an actual exploit and disabling the ability to do it and rather put up a red warning saying "if you do this you'll get banned!" despite a fix already having been created internally. Rather than fixing game breaking bugs right away, they took days to fix the mending bug, they took days to fix the sloppy butcher Wraith bug. They took days to fix the tinkerer 2 bug -- all of which could have been fixed and the problems prevented by just disabling the conditions that required the bug to activate or bandaided on with a quick hotfix the very next day.
Instead of being mad at the players for taking advantage of such an easily executed bug and demanding they take responsibility for it, be mad at the company which basically allows the problem to happen and doesn't fix said problem in a timely manner despite there being 3 easy fixes they could do in five minutes right now to fix the problem.
You make it sound like this is personal.
Hmmmmm.... :)
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@Theluckyboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535694#Comment_535694
I really doubt that thing they did with MoM should be called nerf, you can get tokens just with safe unhooks and bodyblocking, perfect for SWF.
its WGLF but with actual practical use on game
You sweet, summer child. You would've thought they compromised.
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What's wrong with Legion?
What's wrong with sounds?
What's wrong with nerfs?
Not everything has to be buffs. If it was, we'd all be running around with jetpacks and machine guns.
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I like it.
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@Cardgrey said:
while I agree not everyone’s a cheater...
if it was noed bugged and was on all match would you feel the same way?
Slightly less so because NOED is
- A free perk available to everyone
- Commonly used by beginners
- Widely regarded as a powerful perk
This makes the use of NOED less suspicious than say an absolute hot trash rare perk like Wake Up or a strange combination or occurance like Tinkerer 2 or Dirty/Nasty Blade.
But... I mean if you go into game and have survivors dropping dead left and right, and you think to yourself "this is perfectly fine, I'll keep doing this" after your first game or two, then yeah, to the shadow realm you go.
They should definitely send a PSA just for the poor beginners that use it, unsure of what it's actually meant to do. But like hell you'll convince me that anyone is using Wake Up as intended right now.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/537012#Comment_537012
I'm not aware of anyone getting banned for running Tinkerer 2. Or any perk that has been broken before.
They shouldn't ban for the perk. They should disable the perk and then hot fix it. Like I said, how do you ban for something that is so easily accessible and easily able to be reproduced by literally anyone to the point it can even be done accidentally without knowledge? That isn't an exploit -- that's a bug. I don't care how BHVR tries to define the Legion mending bug. When a bug is so obvious, so easy to access that it can even be done by accident without even knowing it and you have to go out of your way purposely to avoid it, then it's not an exploit.
There's already so many people running it right now, you'd be banning a good majority of the player base even if the bug was fixed right now this second and anyone who intentionally ran Wake Up who never ran Wake Up before were banned. I'm seeing at least one survivor per game, usually two at the very least, sometimes 3 and 4. That's at least 25% of the survivor population just gone.
"Oh whoops, using all forty of my Dirty Blade addons conveniently when it becomes known that it is bugged and gives me an unfair advantage. My bad BHVR. I didn't know, I just ended up loving the combination because it looked like it works so well!"
... Again, assuming BHVR can track perk use, sudden change in the pattern of a player's behavior should tip them off to intentional abuse. If it were me, I'd issue 3 day bans for 20% of the people abusing it, then 3 day bans for the next 20% once the first runs out, and so on and so forth.
I think you are overestimating how many people intentionally cheat in this game... and how many people "legitimately" decide to equip and "discover" the miracle of Wake Up. Like.. seriously? Isn't that a little too naive?
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/537012#Comment_537012
Using a perk that's absolutely ideal for EGC when working correctly is an obvious exploit? Also, if you think it's easily tracked, you have WAY too much faith in the development team's coding. Which is ironic considering that very coding is exactly why this problem arose.
... absolutely ideal for EGC...? You're joking, right?
Well, I was under the assumption that they could. If they didn't ban people for obvious infractions, then I guess they can't.
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@Ember_Hunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/536547#Comment_536547
As in the killer, I hope?
Yeah, that's what I meant. Thought that was obvious, lol.
Looks like my post got flagged though. Relax, people.
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@feechima said:
I do hope they fix it. It is super Op right now, but banning for using it isn't any more feasible than when killers used the tinkerer perk or wraiths used sloppy butcher while they were broken. Hopefully, the hotfix comes sooner than those did.
Meh, the Sloppy Butcher bug was just annoying.
The Tinkerer 2 bug completely took away the TR for the whole match. That's cheating. I'm surprised if people didn't get in trouble for that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Probably won't ban for it unlike the Legion bug. I bet there's too many survivors using it. Would be banning a majority of the survivor population.
They shouldn't ban for a bug they caused that's so easy to perform anyways if even unintentionally. At some point it's not the players' fault, but the developers'.
They should absolutely get banned for that. It's an obvious exploit and easily tracked, so they should be consistent with their policy.
If people got banned for abusing Tinkerer 2, then they should absolutely get banned for abusing Wake Up.
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@Pike_Trickfoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/536949#Comment_536949
You want to know why I don’t like to slug? Because I find it stupid and cheesy. I’d rather chase than slug because it is challenging and it gives the person another, earned chance to escape than DS or slugging would provide. I also don’t use the methods that I find aggravating when I’m playing as survivor. I want the kill to be challenging but the survivor still has to earn that escape, whether because they out played or I made the error and not because of some perk. It’s pushing me to play by the survivor’s rules, so yeah that’s frustrating when I find enjoyment in playing my way. Excuse me for wanting to have fun as well.
Let's make something clear: You are defending tunneling. You don't want the kill to be challenging. You want the escape to be challenging.
DS is a perk just like DH. If you fall for it at all, then you are the one at fault. This is the part where someone says "git gud" because you are refusing to counterplay, pretending there was no flaw in your approach, and somehow acting as if you're doing everyone a favor by tunneling instead of slugging.
It is not a survivor's rules. It is the game's rules.
We're not going to nerf Ruin or BBQC just because it annoys people to play around it. And yeah, sure, you don't like slugging for a minute. Some people don't like getting thrown back onto the hook after 2 seconds either.
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@Pike_Trickfoot said:
The problem is that people are categorizing it as an anti-tunnel perk. For me, it’s more of the argument being made just being flawed. That and it’s annoying to just have to eat it when someone just yolo’s at me just to get awarded with bp for stupid plays.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/536856#Comment_536856
It is an anti-tunnel perk, but that doesn't mean it's strictly what it needs to do. Some people don't consider 32m to be camping and yet BT still triggers. WGLF is meant to encourage saves yet people will just pointlessly take a hit for stacks instead. BBQC is meant to encourage killers to leave the hook, yet will often accomplish the exact opposite if survivors happen to be hiding. None of these perks need to fit your ascribed purpose.
And the solution to that is don't eat it when people yolo at you. You took their bait and that is the stupid play. They outsmarted out (or rather you outdumbed them), despite the fact that they were telegraphing that they had DS. They were rewarded because you could not delay your own gratification.
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@ad19970 said:
I wouldn't mind if the stun time was decreased from 5 to 4 seconds. Nevertheless, this perk is now fantastic. It shoudln't really be nerfed in any other way.
I wouldn't mind this either... but the point is to deter tunneling, so making it less punishing to power through is counter-intuitive. It's not necessary to make changes just to appease a vocal minority, especially when DS's change was finally one of the few times they didn't sledgehammer a game feature out of existence.
Even the changes I can agree with are just mindless, parroted talking points, because these changes are inconsequential. People want to nerf it just for the sake of feeling better, momentarily, and outrage will start again like clockwork.
People are frustrated not because of the perk's specifics, but because it is preventing them from using their preferred strategy. These people don't want to slug. They don't want to spend less than a minute chasing someone else. They want their usual, easy kill by tunneling. They refuse to change their playstyle. I don't blame them; tunneling is often most and immediately rewarding, hence why we have perks like DS to begin with.
No one has answered this so far: What compelling reason is there for BHVR to nerf something that is neither overpowered, overused, nor oppressive?
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/536694#Comment_536694
It doesn't say DS is an anti-tunneling perk. It simply mitigates that behavior. A lot of things could change about the perk. Say you deactivate it if someone else is hooked, but what if you're downed and slugged while the killer goes and chases the person who unhooked you to come back to you right afterwards, what would you do then?
"Don't worry, I brought BT to counter camping!"
*goes against hardcamping Bubba, Hillbilly, Myers, Doctor, Pig, Wraith, and GF with aggressive profile on steam*
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What a surprise.
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That's so funny. Who knew Wake Up would finally become meta?
The Tinkerer 2 and infinite Legion mend bugs took too long to fix. Let's see how long this takes.
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#########, this is STILL happening??
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It depends on his add ons.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/70040/its-like-every-killer-has-m-a-revert-the-sound
"Very few people complained about the volume of music before the patch."
Really? I've definitely heard a number of people complain about the volume.
Yep. The music was horribly loud before this patch.
No Mither was 130% trash because you couldn't hear anything the whole time.