Visionmaker
Visionmaker
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564790#Comment_564790
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/830/UZDBRPD5YVR3.png
This is the average time the game last for killer. So the's say a game last 13 min and you wait 2 min for the next one so a killer can play 4 game per hour. A survivors let's say die every time at 9 min and wait 1 min for the next game he can play 6 game per hour.
If we actually look at BP bonuses, most people don't run WGLF because it's a handicap, unlike BBQC.
Most people won't get 4 stacks of WGLF because you have to compete with other survivors to unhook, unlike BBQC, which you can easily get 4 stacks for just by playing a full game. Plus, now you must ensure it's a safe unhook, so you either have to waste time taking protection hits or run BT.
Killer BP gain is far more stable and straight forward. Survivor BP gain is dependent on your team and the killer, and a large portion of it is gated by survival points.
I'd like some hard proof because this hypothesizing and data is clearly weighted against survivor BP gains. If it's so easy to gain BP as survivor, then why are so many people still opting to play killer over survivor almost a month after the patch?
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@citron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564777#Comment_564777
Wait time as a killer was not an issue until the GF+Event came out, and its been going back to normal every day since.
With survivors getting equal BP there is going to be a lot less diversity of killers, why have a stressful game as a non chosen killer (Nurse/Billy/Spirit) when you sit back and have a easy relaxing game as a survivor for the same reward.... even more so if you SWF
With survivors getting equal BP there is going to be a lot less diversity of killers, why have a stressful game as a non chosen killer (Nurse/Billy/Spirit) when you sit back and have a easy relaxing game as a survivor for the same reward.... even more so if you SWF
Because playing solo survivor is boring at best and torturous at worst.
The goal is to incentivize playing survivor over killers. So if people swap from killer to survivor, then it is working as intended.
Also, balance between killers is an irrelevant issue. Instead of bitching about survivors getting more BP, you should ######### about how those killers are too weak.
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@Peanits said:
Correct. Hitting an awake survivor immediately puts them to sleep.
Wow, Freddy has passive Knock Out.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/561533#Comment_561533
I don't think it would be fair to both trap the survivor and cause Exposed.
Remember the perk only causes Exposed if the survivors fast exits. Being locked in will signal to them to quietly leave.
Right now, people just use it to troll because it makes you globally scream across the map, making it doubly useless.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/561541#Comment_561541
Iron Maiden already exists tho xD
And it's a currently worthless perk.
Really makes no sense why it's Legion's teachable either. Lockers are already useless against them.
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That's an interesting idea.
Like others have pointed out, I'd like to see that added to Iron Maiden instead. Like if a survivor goes into a locker, they get trapped in for a short duration. That would make it a little less worthless.
I'd rather see Thrilling Tremors get buffed numbers wise, since it's a good concept, just underwhelming.
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@CptPlanet said:
As a huntress main I support this change. (of course)
Honestly though I hardly saw a player who utilized the directional lullaby information correctly, but it will help with a small percentage of people.
Yeah, you literally don't see them because they avoid you. I've used Huntress's directional hum to be stealthy since I was a beginner.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You mean like BBQ and Devour Hope?
To me survivors need a perk to punish camping better.
And MYC and PGTW (to a lesser extent now).
The numbers are way too strong for just being so slightly away from the hook.
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Difficulty Levels: Solo > Killer > SWF
Like it has always been.
Solo is hardest because it is too dependent on everyone else. It's the most tilting because you are subject to everyone's toxicity.
Killer is in the middle difficulty because it is mostly dependent on how you play. Toxicity and sweaty squads are there, but you can prepare or ignore them at least.
SWF is easiest because you are safeguarded and cushioned by your teammates. Not only if they are good, but also if you have someone there to support you, you don't get tilted as easily.
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@[Deleted User] said:
NUrse is controversial. just leave her and spirit alone until we see what happens with these map reworks and if they buff every other m1 killer. Although i wouldnt mind Nurse's broken addon COMBOS adjusted.It sucks that devs balance for low casuals and passionate fans of this game get treated like dogshit.
When would low casuals even run into good Nurses? I hardly ran into any Nurse from Rank 16 to 4.
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I'd add 15 seconds to the base timer to compensate.
I personally don't like the "take a hike and open the exit gate" mechanic either. It's cumbersome, awkward, and not thematic to do. I agree, end game/EGC is a bit too casual as it is now.
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Not a fan of Interlocking Razor indicating survivor's location. It encourages tunneling.
I'd trade it for giving the survivor Broken Status for 60s instead of a location reveal.
That would be enough to threaten the survivor.
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I played with a dev before.
we were destroyed. -
I think it depends on the cooldown of his power and the speed of the wind up. Threatening to appear from gens is horrifying enough for stall. It's way too early to tell.
From what I saw, I wouldn't oppose keeping some action speed debuff to being asleep though, assuming they're considering to take it away.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558597#Comment_558597
oh, that's not the bug i'm talking about. there's a pallet stun bug that even makes the "stun" drop sound as it hits the killer, but the killer doesn't receive the penalty for being hit.
it commonly happens while picking up a survivor.
that "feature" you're describing is also another bug. it's been there ever since nurse's rework.
The stun not affecting pick ups is not a bug, per se. It is meant to be timed precisely. The killer has to be able to move before they get stunned. Yes, the failed pick up stuns looks exactly like the Nurse "feature", but now that I think about it, they're probably tied to the same mechanic.
Simply put, the Nurse is considered to be "in the middle of animation" when teleporting too long.
A year ago, when they "reworked Nurse" there was a time when she was crippled because she could be stunned in the middle of her trajectory, and suffer both the pallet stun and the power stun. I'd like a reasonable middle ground, where she would be put into her power-stun if she lands under a pallet, just like how Spirit gets stunned when she phases under a pallet.
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@Skittlesthehusky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/558586#Comment_558586
actually, there's a known glitch for all killers that sometimes they'll ignore pallet suns.
it happened with me a few games ago while playing as wraith. while yes, it needs to be readjusted, it's also a known bug.
I'm pretty sure they patched the bug where you swing and the momentum is sucked into the dropped pallet.
The "feature" I am referring to is the one where she keeps floating and is allowed to continue her blink or swing despite getting stunned and the survivor being awarded for the pallet stun event.
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Her add-ons need to be reworked and pallet stun mechanic need to be adjusted.
Her array of add-ons are either really strong or really pointless, and almost none of them change how she fundamentally functions. Extra blinks are too common, minus blink add-ons are uninspired counterweights, and four-five blinks are redundant.
It is ridiculous that she is the only killer in the game where you can slam a pallet on her head and she will ignore it because you didn't hit the perfect reappearance frame.
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Nah, any stealth perks (Spine Chill, UE, Premoninition, Iron Will) counter her, and you can work around her mindgames by not looping high-visibility loops or using flashlights. She can't laze around with jungle gyms at all. Yes, she can get a coin-toss at high-visibility loops, but only if you let her.
I understand why she'd be frustrating to play against when you are a survivor that either doesn't care about stealth or are highly dependent on greedily looping and camping the closest pallet. But that's not a reason to nerf her.
As a survivor, I've always enjoyed playing against her. There is so much thrill in slamming a pallet in her face. Prior to the latest patch, I'd agree that Prayer Beads needed a nerf, but now you can literally hear her grimy ass footsteps walking toward you while she's phasing.
The only thing that needs an adjustment is her Mother's Ring add-on, which is currently bugged and still shows scratch marks.
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@ArecBalrin said:
I asked the devs a question about population-balance years ago and their reply was unhelpful. This is unlikely to change.
It is perfectly valid to say that the current issues with match-making have little to do with population-balance: even as a survivor about half of the time there is a considerable wait in the lobby, which wouldn't be the case if lobbies were only being created when four survivors were being found, as is said of the current system.
You need four survivors per killer to start a lobby. It doesn't matter whether you'll be waiting in the menu screen or the lobby screen. You'll still wait the same amount of time.
It is completely invalid to claim it is not due to population imbalance. You have no data and no proof. The devs tell you it's due to a population imbalance. Steam server trackers tell you it's a population imbalance. Yet you sit here and deny this. Matchmaking is your boogeyman.
The fact of the matter is that there are simply more killers than survivors for an even ratio, let alone high rank balance. But I'm not going to whine about how it's the dev's fault for driving one side away, like some people regularly do on this forum.
Right now, we have 3 survivors per 1 killer in US East. In lobbies, not waiting to make a room. Let that sit with you for a minute.
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I disagree. We see the impact SWF makes on survival. You say it has potential to break the game, yet the data shows that it doesn't justify the amount of outrage. It's an average of 10% extra survivals for 5% of all games. This forum would like for you to believe it's quintuple that number.
I don't like playing versus SWF because they're more likely to be toxic. Getting an advantage is just the cherry on a ######### cake.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554340#Comment_554340
It’s not a skill-less mechanic.
It’s in tune with Freddy always knowing where his dreaming victims are, and to give a super big incentive to “wake up” so that it either gives away the location of awake survivors, or helps regress gen progress.
Any killers can use aura reading to their advantage. That does not mean we should give every killer passive aura reading.
It is the fact that he receives this for doing nothing which makes this skill-less. Furthermore, taking away the need for prediction for his teleportation takes away even more skill necessary.
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@LordGlint said:
@Visionmaker not saying he DOES or DOESNT. I'm saying the reason given is completely asinine.
Aren't you just nitpicking then?
If you know it's a reasonable balance change, you're upset that they didn't say it for balance specifically?
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He doesn't need aura reading, especially now that he'd just passively put people into dream state.
Skilless mechanics are cancerous to this game.
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@Seanzu said:
I swear everyone keeps saying the devs are driving killers away from the game, seems there's more than ever.
If survivors have a long queue = KILLERS ARE LEAVING THIS GAME IN DROVES!
If killers have a long queue = MATCH MAKING IS BROKEN!
Pretty much sums up the narrative this forum pushes. Meanwhile only masochists play solo survivor and killer players campaign against whatever's left of SWF regularly on the forums. Sad.
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Nea looks great.
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the fact that you know 90% of the time you're going to escape....there are no consequences...
Whew, you had me there for a second.
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Legion's great until you try viable killers and wonder why you tortured yourself for so long.
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@wisdom said:
I love how quick people are to downvote but no one is willing to back up their arguments
Was it ever about arguments?
I'm guessing you weren't here for the outrage when BHVR changed the emblems for killers to lose points for camping.
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@wisdom said:
I believe that 5 seconds is actually a good amount of time when you consider how difficult it is to trigger.
it is supposed to Be a deterrent . You don’t want it’s it to trigger? Slug or dont tunnel
I mean the same people REEEE about being hit by Dead Hard for the third time in the same game, so I am not surprised.
Why blame yourself when you can blame everyone else?
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/548272#Comment_548272
It's not entitledment mate, it's the fact dumb plays should not have massive rewards. Rushing a guy on the hook while injured should cost you a hook, not reward you for not using the perk as intended. Survivors should be rewarded for not farming themselves and their allies, not for rushing the killer because they know they have a "get out of jail free" card.
They get rewarded when you pick them up, not when they rush the hook. The proper play is to slug them and have them waste time on the floor, while forcing another teammate to rescue them.
You may think they're stupid but aren't you the dumb one for not anticipating reasons for such a reckless play?
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@gantes said:
If people are gonna whine about stuff that has clear counterplay and opportunity costs, I give up.
Just a heads up: it costs literally nothing to be unbiased and look at both sides.
Having to play differently makes people feel bad so why change how you play when you can just complain instead?
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I intentionally avoid getting hit by it, so no.
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@weirdkid5 said:
Just gonna throw this here.
For the people who said they always planned SWF, this video directly contradicts that. As Cote states, the game was always balanced around the lack of communication and lack of information.
When you play with voice comms, you break the balance.
@Visionmaker no, I don't want voice chat in this game. Part of the reason I bought it Day 1 was the appeal of playing solo, and everyone else was on the same field as me. This game would need a complete rehauling from the ground up to fix this issue. Anything else is just a bandaid fix. This is why we need two queues.
This game will never be balanced until SWF is addressed.
It's been three years. Let it go.
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Everyone should just have VC and then buff killers accordingly. Every game that incorporates team play has this function.
There's no point in fussing over the rest of it.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/544612#Comment_544612
Maybe with BS kicked gens regress faster
Yeah.
Or maybe make it a token based perk where it gains speed after each pallet or gen kicked.
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BHVR Read. :^)
Sometimes suggestions are implemented. Most recently was the emblem change made to survivors. Two of Spirit's perks were also commonly suggested concepts (rigged Hex and auto-pallet breaking).
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/544861#Comment_544861
@Visionmaker some people started using it for the EGC if the Hatch is closed.
The perk may be weak but it serves a purpose.
I'd like for the data to attest to that.
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@Detective_Jonathan said:
Ain't it weird how everyone thought Wake Up was a ######### perk back when it was released? And now that it is bugged everyone suddenly wants to using it like it's a great perk now?
Yikes.
It's interesting everyone and their mother claims to use it prior to the patch when it's regularly deemed as ######### tier when discussed on the forum.
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Purple is too weak.
I think Purple should work like reverse borrowed time. After using it, it passively recovers the person until one health state is recovered or the person is hit, with an optional indicator visible to the killer.
Red is may be too weak to justify killing the medkit too.
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The protection event is highly restrictive. Like the other poster said, you're better off just not running it.
I haven't had anyone activate MoM on me even once as killer since the update.
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PGTW is already awesome.
BS needs another buff that actually fits its theme.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541674#Comment_541674
Bans for those using it
Well I want to clarify that I think a short suspension for only those very apparently abusing it is appropriate, alongside locking/warning about only the worst bugged features. In no way do I support a permaban of anyone.
And I think everyone else deserves an apology and small reward for tolerating the sheer number of bugs.
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@Entità said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541635#Comment_541635
@Visionmaker Monitoring the style of play proves material conduct, not psychological awareness. If you show that I go to a certain restaurant every day, you have experienced the fact, not its illegality (I eat wherever I like); if, instead, the restaurant is publicly declared not up to standard and I continue to frequent it, we can discuss some of my complicity and responsibility. Is the perk broken? Very well, write it in large letters in the game and nobody can say that they are in good faith. On the contrary, keeping hidden that a perk is buggy and yet claiming that the players know and abstain from using it would be irrational and vexatious. If there is a dangerous hole in the road, the owner body must signal it and blind it, it cannot say: "Eh, you can see it, arrange yourself...".
What anarchy? If the reporting system does not work, the best solution is transparency: more information, more details, also to avoid false reports of non-bannable behavior, and more informed behavior, that's what is needed.
The players are customers: if they abandon the game en masse, the developers suffer a serious damage, they are forced to reduce the expenses to the detriment of the quality and also the other players are affected. You put the need for punishment before the need to maintain a loyal player base; I, on the other hand, prefer clarity, loyal cooperation, prevention, which protects honest players and leaves no loopholes to the profiteers.
Monitoring the style of play proves material conduct, not psychological awareness. if, instead, the restaurant is publicly declared not up to standard and I continue to frequent it, we can discuss some of my complicity and responsibility.
@Entità And in the event that you suddenly and now daily frequent the same restaurant that you scarce paid more than three visits to over the last year? What if you started bringing your friends? What if one the patrons even told you - or an outsider heard you on record? How far can it go where we chalk it off to coincidence?
What anarchy? If the reporting system does not work, the best solution is transparency: more information, more details, also to avoid false reports of non-bannable behavior, and more informed behavior, that's what is needed.
A lack of governance is anarchy. The better question is when were we not an anarchy? I can agree that we need transparency because evidence of its effectiveness is lacking.
The players are customers: if they abandon the game en masse, the developers suffer a serious damage, they are forced to reduce the expenses to the detriment of the quality and also the other players are affected. You put the need for punishment before the need to maintain a loyal player base; I, on the other hand, prefer clarity, loyal cooperation, prevention, which protects honest players and leaves no loopholes to the profiteers.
The devs need to make clear who they prioritize: customers that flagrantly disobey the standards of behavior or customers that are unduly punished by those people. I think you heavily overestimate the number of people who have clearly broken the rules and the importance of the "loyalty" of that select few.
Punishment and reinforcement are necessary for changing behavior. It is a fact not up for moral debate. People should be punished when doing the wrong thing and rewarded for doing the right thing. What we have now is the reverse. Societies, big or small, cannot function without this basic principle.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541655#Comment_541655
We heard your opinion long ago. Give it a rest we get it, you think those using wake up should be punished. Your argument makes sense but it's just too severe what you're proposing.
What am I proposing that is too severe?
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541571#Comment_541571
So I guess no-one runs a toolbox, provethyself, resilience, leader, botany knowledge, we'll make it etc according to your logic. Plus a new update = some visuals may have changed. New players are clueless too. If you get a yellow bar you are doing something wrong and you deserve a ban. Literally get real.
Plus I'm pretty sure a forum user enforcing rules is now not allowed. I don't know why but it is. Like I don't know why this is your problem, moaning about it is counter productive. The Devs know you're just spreading outrage for no reason.
I'll concede that there will be cases where users may not notice based on the visual differences.
Didn't know I was going into peoples and accounts and banning them. "Spreading outrage"? I can't give my opinion?
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@Entità said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541040#Comment_541040
@Visionmaker What you call imaginary rules are centuries-old principles of civilization, applied to matters far more serious than the abuse of a bug in a videogame, for example criminal law. Punishment follows a knowingly illicit behavior, otherwise it is arbitrary harassment.
If a survivor, by hypothesis, lowered three pallets in sequence, vaulted two particular windows, cleansed a given totem in a given map and unlocked the hatch to finally jump in, and this happened repeatedly, it would be clear to all his bad faith: the combination of actions is not accidental, and the result, clearly eccentric in regard to the normal game mechanics (pallets, jumps and totems do NOT open the hatch), makes evident the presence of a bug, whose exploitation is therefore deliberate and contrary to the Terms of Service.
But do you want to argue that equipping a perk is an illegal action? Each player is free to use, as he sees fit, everything he gets from Bloodweb or from the Shrine of Secrets, so we are in the presence of a physiological, common, unquestionable action. I repeat, the player is not required to study the debates of the forum, he is not required to time the repair times of a gen and to notice the savings of X seconds, he is not required to approach the game as one approaches a professional competition: he paid a license to have fun, not to review the programming and detect the flaws.
If the product is defective, the main responsibility of remedying it is of the producer: the consumer is not the expert responsible for quality control, it is his full right to play even superficially, without asking too many questions about the interactions between certain perks, add-ons or cosmetics or other.
You maybe play competitive and spend hours on the forum: admirable, but not mandatory. Your claim that everyone is necessarily aware of the failure of the perk is arbitrary, even more so for those who play in the non-English language, given the translation errors that sometimes distort the meaning of the caption. This in terms of reasonableness.
In terms of mere convenience, it would be self-defeating to punish the players for a development error: they would feel abused, used as scapegoats to hide the developers' wrongs, and would abandon the game en masse.
Unlike some users in here, who also vulgarly insult the developers (I read really disgusting comments during the test of the first Ghostface), I hold the highest respect for them and I'm adoring the growing fluidity of the gaming experience, aware of their great efforts to make the program better, richer and more enjoyable. Precisely in this spirit of affectionate esteem, I do not blame them if a bug has escaped the controls or if there is no system to disable a defective perk: I only say that writing an explicit announcement about the prohibition of using a certain perk, because bugged, it does not cost anything, prevents many players from being punished without any fault and maintains a relationship of transparency, loyalty and mutual trust between players and developers. Your idea of punishing everyone, punishing immediately, punishing without warning, seems to be the daughter of a blind rage, which demands a sort of implacable revenge.
Punishment follows a knowingly illicit behavior, otherwise it is arbitrary harassment.
Mens rea and actus rea. The devs have already stated they record a player's game patterns. Using these patterns, we can establish what is incidental use and what is intentional abuse. Intention can be comprehensively inferred, and the act is documented. Furthermore, it is acceptable for them to only punish clear cut cases. Anything is better than nothing. As it is now, we aren't punishing every single person for D/Cing, so why assume this would be any different?
I only say that writing an explicit announcement about the prohibition of using a certain perk, because bugged, it does not cost anything, prevents many players from being punished
The cost of anarchy is dealt to those whose experience is ruined by the offenders' behavior. Furthermore, it sets an ineffective precedent that harms the community. Players already know what is right and what is wrong; this is advertised in both the ToS, the forum, and it is common sense. It is juvenile and negligent to assume otherwise.
Yet the developers' approach has only led to rampant abuse, not only in this situation, but in all aspects of the game. Players do not have trust in the report system. They need to change their approach, and both the past and present is evidence of this. This is what actually leads people to leave in droves: disappointment and unfairness.
In terms of mere convenience, it would be self-defeating to punish the players for a development error: they would feel abused, used as scapegoats to hide the developers' wrongs, and would abandon the game en masse.
Offenders are not children that cannot distinguish their faults from others'. They are adults that will use whatever excuse to absolve guilt. If a light punishment is enough for them to "abandon the game en masse", then it is their problem, not the game's.
Your idea of punishing everyone, punishing immediately, punishing without warning, seems to be the daughter of a blind rage, which demands a sort of implacable revenge.
"Everyone" is not abusing these bugs. Punishment needs to be reasonably swift after the behavior, as the cause and effect need to be apparent. It is an established facet of behavioral psychology, not "implacable revenge." Furthermore, I only ask for the devs to safeguard the integrity of their game, as they are expected. I am not asking for a crusade, so please don't exaggerate and attack my character.
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@twistedmonkey said:
One possible solution if they can't disable the perks or add-ons is to make it known in game.
The players then receive a simple ban and warning which is lifted once they they have read why they are banned and accept if they keep doing it they will be banned for longer..
Instead of simply banning make it so the players are aware first as not everyone reada the forums and once warned repeat use then starts the ban hammer but not a perma one.
This is something they should implement as it's useful for future use as well.
The punishment should be long enough to know that BHVR is serious about exploiting offenses. 12-24 hr from login is appropriate, in my opinion.
The fact that there are so many ridiculous bugs emerging should also not be ignored. I think it is fair to reward players who are enduring through this fairly with a small currency gift.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541541#Comment_541541
I should apologize to you and Visionmaker, I'm sorry if this seems one-sided but no I am against any abuse. I won't use Wake up to speed myself up because I don't feel "accomplished," winning if such a thing can happen in a game. Likewise I never used the Legion addons (not even one even though the bug was stacking) while bugged despite the fact that I used them a lot when I did play Legion normally.
Apology accepted. It is only natural to be frustrated when people are so flagrantly cheating and getting away with it. We all deserve to play the game fairly.
And it is definitely one-sided on this forum, but it isn't survivor vs killer. It's legitimate vs illegitimate players.
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@AshleyWB said:
What about the hex ruin bug where it makes your own totems look like dull totems?
Exactly you didn't know, it's not a bug I made it up but if you didn't know and it existed How would you like a ban?
Wake Up has visual feedback to let you know that it is active from the start to the end of the game.
Can we stop with the false equivalencies now?
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541526#Comment_541526
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/541524#Comment_541524
I see nothing related to perks and addons under gameplay abuse. And yes I expect people to stop using it after it's announced. If you don't, you have what's coming to you and you're abusing it beyond the shadow of a doubt. Looks to me like Behavior should update that piece you linked to me. Doesn't help your case whatsoever.
"I see nothing related to perks and addons under gameplay abuse."
Lol. What step are we on now...
https://i.imgur.com/ZhFJ5UJ.jpg