The_Crusader
The_Crusader
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If player 1 uses DS and becomes the obsession early game, then player 2 uses DS and becomes the obsession and gets hit with Rancor, player 1 can never be hit with Rancor because at that point he has no DS left and so he can never become the obsession again.HeroLives said:
I see your point I really do, and I get that. That didn’t even cross my mind when talking about rancor.The_Crusader said:
1) Moris have barely changed. Even if all 4 survivors brought DS, chances are 3 of them weren't going to use it, and it was possible to dribble the obsession to the hook anyway.HeroLives said:
And my whole point circles back to “we made this to prevent tunneling” and if you use it to prevent being tunneled you can now take a mori or get slugged. See the issue?The_Crusader said:Comparing Rancor to DS
DS was an OP perk that could cost killer the game. There was often at least 1 in almost every game.
Rancor grants you 1 kill out of 4 survivors. You see it once it maybe every 500 games, and even then its mostly on people with Spirit that dont have many other perk choices unlocked.
Know why many people never used it? Because it really wasn't that good.
- If you win the game you get nothing from Rancor until the last gen is complete.
- The location reveal of survviors was pretty useless mostly since you had no idea which direction they were heading in. Only on a small number of occasions was it useful if a survivor happened to be hiding nearby.
- If multiple survivors were alive at the end you probably weren't going to find the obsession.
I've had Rancor used on me only a couple of times since it came out. I've never gone down to it. It's too easy to play stealthy when there is 1 gen left.
I'll tell you why Rancor is important right now - because devs keep talking about a downside to becoming the obsession. There is no downside and there never has been a downside unless the killer was running 1 of 3 perks, Rancor, Dying Light, Remember Me. Those perks were rare to see too, outside of Freddys with Remember Me anyway. So for the most part there was no downside.
Now Rancor IS the downside. Dying Light has been nerfed to beyond useless. STBFL and PWYF don't punish the obsession, they benefit the obsession. Being the obsession against Remember Me is bad early on as it means tunneling, but good late game if the obsession dies as it means you can then open the exit gates at normal speed.
That leaves Rancor as a killers only choice when it comes to providing a downside for the obsession. It's a pretty hefty penalty too. Might actually make someone think twice about using DS unless it's their last hook, and that's what we want. People being afraid to become the obsession.
DS became a problem over 12 hooks/3 hook stages per survivor because more hooks = more chance of a survivor hitting 35%, or being too far to dribble from the hook. When you only needed 4 hooks DS barely happened.
2) I'd rather be slugged and left to be picked up than to be downed and immediately hooked again and brought one stage closer to death.
- Killers slugs survivor to slow the team down
- Survivor gets slugged but gets to keep his 'extra life' if you get what I mean
It's a win/win for both sides.
3) Killers aren't going to slug and wait 60 seconds. It's a waste of time. If they stay near your body then gens get done and they get hurt by it. Compare that to now when they can just hook you straight up and this is a huge improvement for survivors.
Honestly I don't think too much will change...
- High rank killers normally hook then move onto a new target anyway, so they won't be affected by this
- Low rank killers love their tunneling, they'll probably just take the DS, which is what they do now when they chase the obsession for 3 gens anyway.
But again I'd rather be slugged and left to be picked up by another survivor than put on the hook again and brought one step closer to death.
Im talking about when a killer does very poorly and can get a 4 man 3 man 2 man mori Bc of luck at the end even though they really did nothing to earn it. I’m not saying it’s going to happen all the time, I’m saying It’s going to be game breaking when it does. The lower ranks are really going to suffer from it for that reason exactly that you just listed and those tunneling killers down there are going to get rewarded for it, Bc a survivor wouldn’t have to use it unless they are being tunneled seeing as it triggers the option once you’re unhooked. See what I’m saying? It’s cheap af. It’s a reward for killers who will purposely put on rancor and tunnel for that reason.
So no I don’t think it’s cool Bc now if a survivor(s) is tunneled throughout the match and they are now up for a mori with rancor for a perk the devs dress up as “its to help prevent tunneling”. Here is exactly why I say this. A lot of survivors are going to carry this, as a killer I’d anticipate it(which you are) so now you have endgame(assuming the survivors even make it that far) to be rewarded for a play style(tunneling) that the devs created this perk to “prevent” when really it backhandedly encourages it. Bc if the survivor gets the perk triggered(and uses it) it was in fact Bc the killer was tunneling.
Rancor is going to be a problem for this reason. It rewards toxic gameplay now.
As if the red mori wasn’t already something survivors bite their tongue about.
Now it’s double the mori both of which are cheap Bc you don’t really have to work for either just hook each person once, or if you’re going to use rancor tunnel each survivor once. It’s borederline skill less Bc any decent killer will hook everyone atleast once, on a really good killer this is so over powered it’s incrdibly stupid that they’d even allow this to walk out of their office and into the game.
especially considering that killers got so incredibly tilted about eating a single ds.would not even eat a single ds to extend a chase(because let’s be honest I’ve been in enough 4 mans to know on average only one person is going to be able to use it considering how hook spacing is now) anyone else who carries it wasted a perk slot. The amount of people on here that over exaggerate is baffling, I know this Bc I run bond and I see it all even when I play solo.
So please if you’re going to say that a single ds MAYBE two in a match can alter it that much(which they completely can if you chase that single survivor around long enough) you have to accept the fact that a rancor that robs people of 2 hooks and a mori that robs people of two hooks doesn’t do the exact same thing completely altering a match. You’d be a liar if you said they weren’t huge game changers Bc they are.
so imho I think my points are extremely valid, well thought out, not biased ,and incredibly fair points.
most lower rank killers are the Effin worst about those kind of things.
higher ranks ehhh it’s a mix of all types of killer styles tbh.
I mean im not going to run it, Bc it’s obviously killer bait and I can think of other perks id rather use over the new ds .Bc honestly I want the toxic killers to eat it knowing they can’t mori my sweet ass because they play like #########, and I don’t think they should be rewarded for a mindless game play of tunneling and camping, just to have them mori me at the end Bc they’re a bastard.
Remember there is only 1 obsession at a time. If someone uses DS then they become the obsession but the previous obsession loses that obsession status, so they can not be killed with Rancor anymore. If that obsession dies due to Rancor then someone else needs to use DS on the killer to be turned into the obsession. Rancor only becomes useable after the final generator is complete.
For multiple people to be killed with Rancor you would have to have a situation where...
- Last gen pops
- Killer kills the obsession
- Survivor is unhooked
- Killers downs the survivor, picks them up, takes a DS
- Killers catches up to them before they make it out of the exit gates
- Instadown, kill
Chances are the exit gate is already being opened as the killer is chasing and killing the obsession. It's highly likely the unhooked survivor will manage to escape in that time.
Another scenario is...
- Last gen pops
- Survivor is unhooked
- Killer downs the obsession, kills them
- Killer finds the unhooked survivor, downs them, takes a DS, survivor runs, killer catches up to them, downs them, kills them
So you see while it is possible to get a second kill with Rancor the chances are the killer just won't have the time to kill one survivor, catch another after they have been unhooked, take a DS and catch them again.
It is theoretically possible but highly unlikely to happen.
As for 3 it would be so unlikely to happen that it's statistically irrelevant.
Honestly Rancor will be pretty much the same as it is now. The difference being that if survivors think the killer has Rancor they will have that risk/reward feeling of using DS and becoming the obsession, which is what we want. -
The 3 scariest things in DBD right now...
3) Dying Light obsession - You know if you get seen or caught you're gonna be tunneled that game.
2) Rancor - Sure it's easy to stealth around it but it's still a terrifying perk when you're the obsession.
1) When Leatherface picks you up and you see the wiggle bar is red because he has Iron Grasp. You know EXACTLY what type of Bubba this is and where he's planning on taking you. Game over. -
Yes.
But play survivor and you will understand. It's especially bad at low ranks, killers never stray too far from the hook. They'll just circle around and tunnel the first person they catch all game. It's really bad.
For the health of the game it needed to be done.
That said there's nothing wrong with a strategical camp or tunnel in small doses. Itd just that for some players it was their tactic all game every game. -
AntiJelly said:
@The_Crusader said:
I have no idea why any of you even played the game back then lol. I would have uninstalled with the infinites.Yeah, it's kinda why I started this post. Just to show how far we've come. DBD really used to suck.
https://youtu.be/hsie4pHH99E
The Claudette tbagging non-stop during a 20 minute infinite.
I would have uninstalled the game and tracked that person down irl
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Hilbilly's chainsaw would be bigger than him.
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I have no idea why any of you even played the game back then lol. I would have uninstalled with the infinites.
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They keep talking about risk/reward but so far there hasn't been much risk. I'd like to see more. After the recent changes Rancor is the best one, and makes it dangerous to become the obsession.
More of that please Behaviour.
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Just a gut feeling. With how much current DS users are crying about this change I feel it might be done to appease them. The devs have said it's a possibility.TAG said:
What do you base your belief on?The_Crusader said:
If you don't want to take Enduring though?Bbbrian2013 said:Eating the stuns won't be bad at all if they don't change how Enduring interacts with ds. The timer nerf means all ds will be like the current tier 1 ds.
Enduring+Clown bottle with the new ds will be hilarious it'll be like nothing happened.
I perdonally believe the stun time will probably be increased.
Of course this is just a personal gut feeling. There's nothing concrete about it. Don't want to confuse anyone. -
There wouldnt be 1 survivor though. They dont attempt it with 1 because you pull them off.SenzuDuck said:
If it’s end game you’re probably camping if you can’t hit a survivor running at your hook twice then that’s your problem tbh.The_Crusader said:
Depends man.SenzuDuck said:
Down the unhooker that doesn’t have the chance to use it then?The_Crusader said:
A good number of people take it now.SenzuDuck said:Except if they don’t have DS? People come up with these theories and base them on if everyone in the match is running it.
Many people who dont use it have said they intend to use it when the changes come in.
What do you do? Slug and assume they have it? Or pick then up and risk the stun?
I'd bet money this perk becomes even more widely used after the changes.
Who unhooks while injured? Nobody. You gotta hope the unhooker can't make it to the exit gates before you can hit them twice.
Then there is the kobe/Deliverance.
We're talking 2/3.
And in my game, they pulled themself off the hook. -
It would be easier to ask what isn't bugged right now.
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Unsure.
- If you don't find another survivor, and the only one you see is the unhooked survivor, you can't hook them anymore.
- Strategical tunnels when under pressure are also gone now too. You know the 4 survivors/1/2 gens left scenario.
But on the other hand...
- If you see the obsession at the start of the game you can chase them now. Before I only did it if I really couldnt see anyone else. Now you can do it freely and you're guarenteed a hook. No more dribbling time either.
- No more taking a surprise DS when carrying to a hook or the basement.
- Stun time is reduced ad occurs during the pickup animation
It will be interesting to see which way it swings. -
Surely that Jake messed up and didnt go for the pallet fast enough.Akuma said:Enduring vs DS today
https://clips.twitch.tv/IgnorantSecretiveTroutNotATKand you wanna tell me, reducing this more would be ok? no chance they must adjust those numbers
We've all used Enduring and still had a survivor go down next to a pallet or vault, use DS and then manage to use the pallet/vault to make it to safety. -
Agreed with the posts in here.
I normally hook and then go look for another victim while the first survivor takes a time-out on the hook.
Sometimes though you'll find situations where...
1) They unhook 3 seconds after you've hooked. You turn around. The person doing the rescue has run straight to the nearest mega-loop, the unhooked survivor is just running out into the open.
It's not nice to hit them but you can't really just ignore them because I'm sure we've all had those moments where we play nice and regret it later. Either by losing due to it or by having the survivors turn toxic.
Sometimes I'm tempted to leave them slugged and chase the other guy but if they've gone to a strong enough loop or they have DS it's a waste of time.
2) You go over to check a nearby gen or BBQ target. Claudette goes fully immersed and disappears. You hear the unhook notification. So it's either you stay here spending 5 minutes looking for a damn ninja, or you turn around and go to a place where you KNOW there are 2 survivors.
Of course as killer you feel a lot of time pressure so you tend to go for the safer option.
It's not every hook it happens but there are times it will happen. It will take some adjusting in these situations with the new DS.
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You don't, and that's the point.Arroz said:@Peanits said:
@Arroz said:
@TheMidnightRidr said:
I have to disagree. Just as @Peanits said in a previous discussion, using that philosophy, a mori will counter Hope, No One Left Behind, etc. since you never got to use them. The only real counter perk that is available (that I see anyway) is rancor which is fair.I dont understand you??
To explain a little further: A mori is not necessarily a counter to DS, a mori just kills you outright. You can't use any perks if you're dead. By the same logic, a mori counters Hope and No One Left Behind because they never have a chance to activate because you're dead.
That's not to say that moris aren't OP, and I'm totally okay with them and insta-heals going, but to say it's a counter is a stretch.
, how to use ds when you just got hooked against a mori?
Moris aside a lot of people seem to be complaining that they can't use DS before a hook, and that the timer needs to go so they don't lose their DS chance after 60 seconds.
The harsh truth is DS was a design flaw. It was a very badly designed perk. It should not have existed.
I've been playing games since the NES days and for me personally DS is the most bullshit thing I have ever personally come across in a game.
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DS doesn't save you in a mori game even with the current DS.
You can easily hook 3 people without them getting the 35% and then mori them. It's not hard to dribble the obsession to the hook either.
With 3 hooks per survivor that's 12 hooks. Obviously the problem with DS was that the more hook attempts you have, the higher chance that you will take a DS. For example you'll probably manage to dribble the obsession to the hook at least once in every game, however when doing it 3 times in a row there is normally a time when they're just too far and you have to take the stun or leave them slugged.
Same for the 35%. It usually isn't an issue but the more attempts you have the higher the chance of them activating it. Normally in a game you don't get a basement hook, but when you do that's normally when the 35% DS gets you. Or late game too when after a few sacrifcies there are less hooks on the map.
I've had ebony mori games where DS never got used. With 4 hooks rather than 12 the odds of taking a DS become much lower.
So personally I really don't see this as any different. Only the obsession really got a chance before in a mori game. -
I guess.Delfador said:@The_Crusader said:
Here's the thing....You don't even need to use the new DS. Just having it will be a deterrent to stop the killer from tunneling you. Hell just having it in the game might make the killer think twice.
You don't even need it to be good. You know what killers are like, DS is like garlic to a vampire. Nobody wants to take one of those stuns because it's not a good feeling.
I think the idea of that person having DS may be stronger than the perk itself.
I know you are generally against NOED too but isn't it just like NOED?
Both sides have extra 5th psychological perk slot and people have to play around it.
As a killer, honestly, I didn't have much problem with borrowed time and I think that I will not have any problem with the new DS. Maybe, times is too long but we can judge it better when we see the actual change.
We will see it in the PTB I guess.
I feel the problem with NOED goes back to solo vs swf.
You can choose not to tunnel and then not take a DS. You can't choose good teammates who make an effort to cleanse totems lol
NOED isn't so bad in SWF because you tell each other when you're cleansing totems etc and it feels like a side objective.
However running around solo and looking for all 5 because the rest wont do any is a pain in the ass, especially if the killer is getting hooks, gens are popping and you're running around messing with totems.
I've heard people try to suggest ways that each player has to cleanse a totem thenself to not be affected by NOED. I think 1 totem is too little but I like the idea where each player has a task and only those who don't do it get hit by this ultra powerful perk. -
I forgot to add, a notification/timer on screen for the killer would be a huge QOL improvement for this.
It might sound unfair but really it would be no different to when a survivor gets the 'Exposed' timer on their screen. -
DS sounds better to me as a survvior than a killer. I think I would use it, and I was someone who considered the old DS the most broken thing in the entire game.
I still think this new one will be extremely powerful. Perhaps even more so than before. At least they shortened the stun a little bit, hopefully that sticks. -
I agree.DarkGGhost said:The new DS it's broken in mid/end game, if you leave the survivor with the DS you give a free esc and they don't lose it ( they can use next time). Killer can't prevent it from use it ( unlike most of the killer perks), MYC only apply to the survivors how do the unhooking and with Deliverance you give them a better change to win. Rancon only work at the end after you eat the DS so not good , remeber me will give another survivor the power to open the gates in 20 sec. Mori you see 1 in 15/ 20 games and the timer 60 sec way to much for no rly reason.
The thing is, even as survivors we agree that it's not scummy for the killer to camp when all gens are done. It sucks but it makes sense as thats where the remaining survivors are going to go. The only reason they haven't escaped is because they want the rescue. To be fair the most epic rescue attempts I've had in DBD have come from this endgame period.
I feel like DS would be overpowered here. I think the perk needs to change once all gens are powered. Either a bloodwarden effect on the exit gates after a DS is used, or the unhook time gets shrunk right down to 10 seconds.
Even late game. 2 surviors left. 1 survivor on hook. Other one rescues them. That's a full minute before you can hook them again.
Which is why I think the timer does indeed need to be short. Down to 40-45 seconds after an unhook in my opinion. Otherwise it just drags the game out. -
Yeah the downside is this new obsession change hurts dying light and remember me.TatsuiChiyo said:Honestly what I feel they should do is remove the Obsession part entirely. From what it sounds like every Survivor with DS will be made the Obsession so long as they get hooked, so there's no real way for the perk not to proc.
Whereas Killers with perks such as Dying Light, and Survivors who run OoO can get builds and strategies screwed over because Kill3rH8er got himself hooked. I feel like a lot of players are going to get mad over this "obsession switcheroo" thing.
The upside is it improves Rancor. Anyone who dares to DS you now is going to get bit in the ass with karma if those gens get powered.
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*Laughs in Behaviour Interactive's totem/survivor spawn placement*Peasant said:
*Laughs in Devour Hope*The_Crusader said:Lol at using Mori as a counter. You can't use a mori everygame . . . -
1) Moris have barely changed. Even if all 4 survivors brought DS, chances are 3 of them weren't going to use it, and it was possible to dribble the obsession to the hook anyway.HeroLives said:
And my whole point circles back to “we made this to prevent tunneling” and if you use it to prevent being tunneled you can now take a mori or get slugged. See the issue?The_Crusader said:Comparing Rancor to DS
DS was an OP perk that could cost killer the game. There was often at least 1 in almost every game.
Rancor grants you 1 kill out of 4 survivors. You see it once it maybe every 500 games, and even then its mostly on people with Spirit that dont have many other perk choices unlocked.
Know why many people never used it? Because it really wasn't that good.
- If you win the game you get nothing from Rancor until the last gen is complete.
- The location reveal of survviors was pretty useless mostly since you had no idea which direction they were heading in. Only on a small number of occasions was it useful if a survivor happened to be hiding nearby.
- If multiple survivors were alive at the end you probably weren't going to find the obsession.
I've had Rancor used on me only a couple of times since it came out. I've never gone down to it. It's too easy to play stealthy when there is 1 gen left.
I'll tell you why Rancor is important right now - because devs keep talking about a downside to becoming the obsession. There is no downside and there never has been a downside unless the killer was running 1 of 3 perks, Rancor, Dying Light, Remember Me. Those perks were rare to see too, outside of Freddys with Remember Me anyway. So for the most part there was no downside.
Now Rancor IS the downside. Dying Light has been nerfed to beyond useless. STBFL and PWYF don't punish the obsession, they benefit the obsession. Being the obsession against Remember Me is bad early on as it means tunneling, but good late game if the obsession dies as it means you can then open the exit gates at normal speed.
That leaves Rancor as a killers only choice when it comes to providing a downside for the obsession. It's a pretty hefty penalty too. Might actually make someone think twice about using DS unless it's their last hook, and that's what we want. People being afraid to become the obsession.
DS became a problem over 12 hooks/3 hook stages per survivor because more hooks = more chance of a survivor hitting 35%, or being too far to dribble from the hook. When you only needed 4 hooks DS barely happened.
2) I'd rather be slugged and left to be picked up than to be downed and immediately hooked again and brought one stage closer to death.
- Killers slugs survivor to slow the team down
- Survivor gets slugged but gets to keep his 'extra life' if you get what I mean
It's a win/win for both sides.
3) Killers aren't going to slug and wait 60 seconds. It's a waste of time. If they stay near your body then gens get done and they get hurt by it. Compare that to now when they can just hook you straight up and this is a huge improvement for survivors.
Honestly I don't think too much will change...
- High rank killers normally hook then move onto a new target anyway, so they won't be affected by this
- Low rank killers love their tunneling, they'll probably just take the DS, which is what they do now when they chase the obsession for 3 gens anyway.
But again I'd rather be slugged and left to be picked up by another survivor than put on the hook again and brought one step closer to death. -
They want a free escape available at all times.TAG said:I don't know how the new DS will turn out, but I can at least say that anyone who advocates for the 60-second timer to be removed but seems to be okay with the fact that all four Survivors can use DS together with no penalty probably does not understand why the timer is there.
It's like they've never played killer or don't understand balance. -
DS was a mistake. It should have been removed. Of course they can't do that though because there is already a large amount of people crying that they don't have a free escape anymore.
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When I first started playing I thought that's what it did. That it revealed my location to the killer or something.
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Lol at using Mori as a counter. You can't use a mori everygame, you can however use your perk everygame.
The devs should have adjusted DS ages ago. This perk was so busted and so OP for so long that people kind of expect that power to be the standard now.
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Wait a few months?Cymer said:Wait for dedicated servers. They are planned this year.
If they are here and we have a stable connection and the issue is still there, the devs can look into it and fix it.
Right now there is absolutely no point in wasting money, time and staff on a fix that will be obsolete In a few month. Just be patient and have faith in the devs.
It's hands down the biggest problem the game has right now. Its been so frequent since the Decembsr update. It should have been fixed weeks ago. -
Someone from the team said they were balancing OoO. This was months ago though, haven't heard anything since.
It would be nice to have an update and know if this is still ongoing. -
Comparing Rancor to DS
DS was an OP perk that could cost killer the game. There was often at least 1 in almost every game.
Rancor grants you 1 kill out of 4 survivors. You see it once it maybe every 500 games, and even then its mostly on people with Spirit that dont have many other perk choices unlocked.
Know why many people never used it? Because it really wasn't that good.
- If you win the game you get nothing from Rancor until the last gen is complete.
- The location reveal of survviors was pretty useless mostly since you had no idea which direction they were heading in. Only on a small number of occasions was it useful if a survivor happened to be hiding nearby.
- If multiple survivors were alive at the end you probably weren't going to find the obsession.
I've had Rancor used on me only a couple of times since it came out. I've never gone down to it. It's too easy to play stealthy when there is 1 gen left.
I'll tell you why Rancor is important right now - because devs keep talking about a downside to becoming the obsession. There is no downside and there never has been a downside unless the killer was running 1 of 3 perks, Rancor, Dying Light, Remember Me. Those perks were rare to see too, outside of Freddys with Remember Me anyway. So for the most part there was no downside.
Now Rancor IS the downside. Dying Light has been nerfed to beyond useless. STBFL and PWYF don't punish the obsession, they benefit the obsession. Being the obsession against Remember Me is bad early on as it means tunneling, but good late game if the obsession dies as it means you can then open the exit gates at normal speed.
That leaves Rancor as a killers only choice when it comes to providing a downside for the obsession. It's a pretty hefty penalty too. Might actually make someone think twice about using DS unless it's their last hook, and that's what we want. People being afraid to become the obsession. -
It is hard to find the exposed survivor, that's why I only use this perk on Wraith.
They tend to stop running early against Wraith as they don't know when he's closing in. Plus its easy to find them hiding behind a rock or something. I get decent use out of it. -
Like Borrowed Time it's OP as hell but the crappy killers at ranks 10-15 that do camp & tunnel all game every game have nobody to blame but themselves.
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It was well established that DS was most powerful when it robs the killer if that first hook. Your idea brings that back, and by eliminating the timer it aldo leaves no real counterplay to it once again.powerbats said:@MaxiferPriest said:
@Oooooof said:
@ToxicFengM1n And what about the 7 carry perks/addons killers have?and what about 18 2nd chance perks and add ons survivors have? insta heal, ds, sc, sb, bt... those are all perfectly fine, survivors deserve 17 chances to try and survive yes
Wow i didn't know i could equip 18 second chance perks with only 4 perk slots while playing solo and I also didn't know that as a killer I couldn't simply you know wait out BT.
I've only ever run DS for the adept and 5x trying it and never hitting the skill check until the 6th time against a Freddy 1v1 after the other 3 quit at 5 gens.
I don't run SB unless it's a lower level toon that has nothing better, I don't run BT because I don't go for stupid unhooks right in front of the killer.
I don't run insta heals unless it's a daily and I need to ensure I escape or it's with a friend and they need to
escape for the daily.But sure survivors can down the killer and hook them oh wait no we can't so we have to have something to help us out.
As a killer main all the excuses in your posts says one thing, you're the issue for your games not the survivors and perhaps you just need to improve and stop complaining so much.
@fcc2014 I don't really have a problem with the change other than a few small changes since this is similar to what I and other suggested for so long.
The 60 second timer shouldn't start counting if you're on the ground and the perk should be active for everyone until the 1st person is downed and uses it. After that it's inactive unless they do an unhook and the person that used it 1st it's no longer usable during the game.
But that 1st person can get bonus bp for doing at least 1 SAFE unhook during the trial and the others in order for their DS to unlock have to do SAFE unhooks.
The issue that killers don't realize is that if they start going full on slugging you'll see 4 man swf's much more often and 4 medkits with instal heals of some type.
You'll also start seeing Saboteur perk setups with Unbreakable and probably No Mither/Iron Will setups as well.
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It definitely has the potential to be stronger at the endgame.ad19970 said:@The_Crusader said:
It has its pros and cons.Its definitely going to make the game more enjoyable for survivors by punishing tunneling, however it does look like it will become OP at the late game.
Well to be honest at the end game it's still the same as it is before. Just now it won't be able to ruin your momentum as much. I can't wait for this change.
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Well I gave an example of one of my experiences as killer last nightfcc2014 said:@Condorloco_26 said:
Looking at all this mess I think it would've been better just to insta-drop/stun all non-obsession DS, so no more wasting time until they struggled out. That is such a gamebreaker now.Or as @fcc2014 says, have all non-obsession lose a perk slot. That would be the downside of equipping DS, the risk of not being able to use it. You want to make it sure? Equip 2 or 3 obsession perks yourself
We will see once people have all these "free" escapes at the end of the game. People like @The_Crusader is starting to catch on to what i was getting at. @Master and I both believe this wasn't a nerf at all. My personal opinion BHVR [BAD WORD] this up ROYALLY!
- Had 2 sacrificed, 2 alive
- Last gen done while I'm in a chase, put Nea on hook after
- Assume as this point the other player had opened a door and is coming back for the unhook so might as well camp this last kill
- Nea kobes, I knock her down and put her back on the hook
And I realized that under the new system she would have been better off. It would have been an instant DS, or 60 seconds is more than enough to crawl to an exit gate.
You either pick them up and take the stun or you leave them slugged for a minute hoping it wears off in time as you count the seconds in your head. The fact that there is no telltale sign is a real problem. I think killers need a notification the same way surviors get an "exposed" timer on their screen. -
Well I gave an example of one of my experiences as killer last nightfcc2014 said:@Condorloco_26 said:
Looking at all this mess I think it would've been better just to insta-drop/stun all non-obsession DS, so no more wasting time until they struggled out. That is such a gamebreaker now.Or as @fcc2014 says, have all non-obsession lose a perk slot. That would be the downside of equipping DS, the risk of not being able to use it. You want to make it sure? Equip 2 or 3 obsession perks yourself
We will see once people have all these "free" escapes at the end of the game. People like @The_Crusader is starting to catch on to what i was getting at. @Master and I both believe this wasn't a nerf at all. My personal opinion BHVR [BAD WORD] this up ROYALLY!
- Had 2 sacrificed, 2 alive
- Last gen done while I'm in a chase, put Nea on hook after
- Assume as this point the other player had opened a door and is coming back for the unhook so might as well camp this last kill
- Nea kobes, I knock her down and put her back on the hook
And I realized that under the new system she would have been better off. It would have been an instant DS, or 60 seconds is more than enough to crawl to an exit gate.
You either pick them up and take the stun or you leave them slugged for a minute hoping it wears off in time as you count the seconds in your head. The fact that there is no telltale sign is a real problem. I think killers need a notification the same way surviors get an "exposed" timer on their screen. -
It has its pros and cons.
Its definitely going to make the game more enjoyable for survivors by punishing tunneling, however it does look like it will become OP at the late game. -
@ad19970 Only 1 person is guarenteed the instant skillcheck now though. Plus if they go down near the hook they can be dribbled.
After the update all 4 survivors can use it immediately.
@Bbbrian2013 The problem is unlocking it. I have all killers at level 50, have hundreds of hours on the game but still don't have Enduring unlocked on some killers.
Also there are a few I would prefer not to take it on. Nurse, Spirit and Hag come to mind.
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Gonna need NOED to just slug everyone.Tzeentchling9 said:My thoughts exactly. The change gives buffs DS with guaranteed pressure later in the game at the cost of being able to use it early in the game. It just fits too well with the current meta of "Rush Gens, Adrenaline out the gate." Dribbling and using hooks that Survivors are immediately under should remain options of counterplay for killers. I also see DS getting more use after this "nerf."
The timer should decrease once exit gates are powered. 60 is far too much at that point. -
Depends man.SenzuDuck said:
Down the unhooker that doesn’t have the chance to use it then?The_Crusader said:
A good number of people take it now.SenzuDuck said:Except if they don’t have DS? People come up with these theories and base them on if everyone in the match is running it.
Many people who dont use it have said they intend to use it when the changes come in.
What do you do? Slug and assume they have it? Or pick then up and risk the stun?
I'd bet money this perk becomes even more widely used after the changes.
Who unhooks while injured? Nobody. You gotta hope the unhooker can't make it to the exit gates before you can hit them twice.
Then there is the kobe/Deliverance. -
If you don't want to take Enduring though?Bbbrian2013 said:Eating the stuns won't be bad at all if they don't change how Enduring interacts with ds. The timer nerf means all ds will be like the current tier 1 ds.
Enduring+Clown bottle with the new ds will be hilarious it'll be like nothing happened.
I perdonally believe the stun time will probably be increased. -
A good number of people take it now.SenzuDuck said:Except if they don’t have DS? People come up with these theories and base them on if everyone in the match is running it.
Many people who dont use it have said they intend to use it when the changes come in.
What do you do? Slug and assume they have it? Or pick then up and risk the stun?
I'd bet money this perk becomes even more widely used after the changes. -
Soon™
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No.Master said:Wait is the PTB out already?
I was playing the game both as survivor and killer. Saw unhooks after the last gen popped. Exit gates were open.
I realized if these people had the new DS there is literally no stopping them from escaping. Whereas right now there is.
Try it yourself. -
Exactly. What we have now is better than before possibly but the perk really should have been erased alltogether.Kaelum said:Here’s the problem with the timer as it is:
- Survivor heads to hook for the save and gets smacked while doing so. (potato survivor camping the hook)
- Injured survivor unhooks hooked survivor, and I smack the potato performing the unsafe unhook. (potato is now in dying state)
- I leave the potato slugged, and chase the unhooked survivor. Anything else would be stupid on my part. I am not tunneling, as I clearly got 2 hits on the potato, and downed him/her.
- I down the unhooked survivor, who now has DS activated.
How is this fair? If I down any survivor other than the one that was unhooked, DS should immediately be deactivated.
I cant believe some people are acting like they've been treat unfairly by having the most bullshit perk in existence nerfed a little bit. -
Just played a game now...
- Had 2 survivors dead, 2 alive
- Chasing Nea
- Last gen pops
- Get Nea down, hook her.
- Assume other has opened exit gate, so nothing left to do but camp this one out
- She kobes
- Knock down, put on hook
Now with this new DS there is no way I would have been able to do that and she would have been free to get to the exit gate. There isn't even a notification that anyone has DS.
I think in general the direction of the perk is good but it needs a solution for endgame. This is still going to be an OP perk with no counter play. They could crawl out in those 60 seconds easily.
Needing bloodwarden+enduring just to counter DS is not realistic. Plus theres no guarentee bloodwarden would even still be up by the time they get there. If they have Deliverance they can sit on the hook until just before the second stage.
In fact Deliverance itself is buffed now because now it doesn't matter if you're broken because you still have the crutch perk to fall back on. -
Its not just Tyde, I've seen others float the suggestion about the timer needing to be increased.
Myself and @Blueberry think if anything it should be 10-20 seconds lower.
The devs have tested 2 mins though and they say it's not good, as I would expect. So yeah blueberry I think we have been proven right here lol
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@The_Crusader said:
You've admitted before that your tactic is camp and NOED. I don't think you can criticize other peoples skills in the game.Besides what happens when people complain about camping? Killer mains say "do gens", so survivors do gens and then people like you punish them for it. It's disgusting to be quite honest.
Who cares if you complain about camping? I mean really. Killers don't care if you are happy with how you die. Are you delusional? All that matters is that you die.
I'm sure that's really healthy for the game.
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The skillcheck is going to be huge, no way people will miss it lol
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I'm surprised Tydetyme asked for it to be longer, he's always come across as a killer main.
You have 60 seconds from unhook. You can spend 15-20 seconds running to the edge of the map, and do a 40 second self-care with mangled applied in that time. It's actually far beyond what you need. What kind of tunneling killer ever gives a survivor that much time? they always go for the tunnel before you're healed.
If you get unhooked as survivor and someone heals you with We'll Make It, you'd have like 40 seconds of immunity that you don't even need.
I mean you've got....
- not_queen announcing a blog post
- The blog post
- A follow up Q&A
- A new Q&A today from Patricia
- Tydetyme made a vid
- Truetalent did a reaction video and he never does that
- Ardetha made a video
- People joining the forums just to comment on it
- An entire front page of the forums filled with threads about this new change
Does anyone think there would be this kind of reaction if Botany or Spine chill got changed? no. The fact that DS has drawn this much attention tells you that there was a major ######### problem with this perk lol
All I'm saying is that it can't be any longer because then it steps into old DS territory and that is never allowed to happen. The devs say they tried 2 mins internally and it went there so yeah, glad they didn't go through with that in the final version.
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Rancor will be ascended now. I don't think people need to worry about multiple kills with it, the chances of that happening are slim for 2 people, and probably 1 in a billion for 3 people.
Every game with it will be..
D-STRIKE ME, I DARE YA, I DOUBLE DARE YA!
