StarLost
StarLost
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665296#Comment_2665296
What ifs are good to help us determine what's best for things not just I this game but I other things I life. It allows us to wonder about the worst case scenario that is possible to happen. And hopefully avoid that scenario if possible.
I agree gen speeds are fine and other things instead needs to be touched in order for things to be balanced. I also think tunneling is fine. They both are nessacary to balance each other out.
And I think we have as a community come up with an acceptable definition of tunneling, which is also supported by the change to DS. Tunneling is when you target a survivor that was unhooked even when there are others to target.
If you don't do something because of the worst case scenario, then you end up doing nothing.
And no, again - what you are describing proves my exact point. It's ridiculously broad. For example, if I play Hag - I'll bop whoever triggers a trap. I'm not going to stop and check whether it's someone I already hooked.
If I find 3 survivors healing, I'm chasing the one furthest from safety.
If it's a choice between chasing 1 person with 2 hooks and 1 person with 0 hooks, unless I'm already in control of the game I'm chasing the 2-hooker. It just doesn't make tactical sense not to.
These are all things that happen incidentally during a game and make sense. There is play and counterplay. A risk (DS, BT etc.) and a reward.
Facecamping Indisious Bubbas? Yeah, now that's a problem because there isn't really any reasonable counterplay.
There is tons of counterplay to tunneling.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665288#Comment_2665288
You're shifting the responsibility for your behaviour onto everyone you play with because of how you think they should be reacting. But you obviously know that it will get these responses and it's entirely within your power to stop--it's not like teabagging gains you anything.
Why, exactly, is doing something that you know gets to other people acceptable behaviour? You're not operating from a position of innocent ignorance.
As I said, there's something about this generation that makes a lot of them incredibly self-centered and more willing to spend time and energy on justifying them being jerks than just not being jerks.
It's not true of all millennials, sure - but it's damn well true of enough of them.
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@Anara said:
Im a survivor main, because I spend most of my dbd time playing survivor with friends.
But maining survivor doesnt mean Im best at survivor. So I asked myself if I could 1v1 myself who would win ? I think my killer side would win. I play less killer but I think I could beat myself.
Does that makes me a killer main ???
What about you ? Which side of yourself would win in a 1v1 ? Your survivor side or your killer side ?
I'm a killer main, and could probably take myself 1v1.
Now a team of mes versus me as killer...I'd probably win.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665286#Comment_2665286
Ok can I ask. What would happen if gen speeds was slower but tunneling and camping wasn't touched or vice versa?
'What-iffing' isn't usually a productive line of reasoning, especially when two things are almost certainly connected to each other to some degree.
'Gen speeds' as a whole don't need to be touched. Certain addons, perks, loops and the like are what needs to be touched, and a part of that is going to have to involve reworking and buffing a lot of killers.
Once that is done, if 'camping' is still a problem - you can revisit the issue.
Again, I'm not sure what you even mean by 'tunneling'. I get accused of 'tunneling' if I hook the same person twice in the same match or interrupt someone healing. It appears to be a nothing-term that nobody can really agree on what constitutes it.
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@MauriceMaverick said:
You see, i always said that teabagging is not neceseraly toxic. it is just a way to get the killer worked up so that he gets distracted and lose his focus. and i allways thought that camping and tunneling wasnt toxic either. it is bloody unfair and unsporty and in terms of points a shot in your own knee. But not toxic. what i allways considerd to be toxic is teebagging at the exitgate and kebabingbing (hittting a hooked or downed surviver). The thing is though for something to be toxic it needs a toxic intention, like "look at me im great and you are garbage" when teabagging or kebabing. And i allways considerd that to be the case most of the time. that was until i saw somebady teabagging a... wait for it... Zombie. "What the heck? why would you teabag a Zombie?" was my reaction. And it made me thinking: What do you actualy think or what is your actual intention when being toxic (exit gate and kebab only)? is it more like a ritual, basicly saying goodbye or are you just hooked for some extra points? Or maybe you are just legit being "you are crap i am awsome" kind of p erson. What is it that makes you twerk?
Woof, where do I start with this one?
No.
Taunting the other side to break their focus is toxic. You are deliberately going out of your way to make another player unhappy in the hopes that they play worse. That is a 'toxic intent'. By this logic, yelling slurs at someone to disconcert them before a tourney is fine.
Some playful trash-talk between rivals is one thing, but teabagging strangers has always been commonly accepted as extremely BM.
Sigh, maybe it's because I'm old and grew up playing sports and participating in martial arts - but this sort of 'trash talk' is mostly something you see on TV. In actual sports, a few 'characters' excepted, it's something that gets you benched or even fined.
This may be the fuddy-duddiest thing I've ever said, but this ridiculously solipsistic generation needs to stop trying to justify being jerks and just...stop being jerks.
PS: Killers hitting survivors right after hook isn't generally a BM, it's to cut the annoying, ear-splitting scream SFX off.
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@BubbaDredge said:
I see what you mean about disincentivized on the webs, I did the same thing with Bubba once I got all the perks. I don't care much about his addons, so I just didn't advance his web anymore. After a couple other killers got to that point, I realized I was caring too much about getting value when I should be focused on getting fun.
The fact that you've already spent so much on non-prestiged characters is just water under the bridge. I felt that way before prestiging anyone, I had a good collection of perks and didn't want to risk them, but like you, I had nothing to work for. While it's true, you grinded and worked hard to get there, it's also true that your playing habit has caused the opposite problem. The fact that you're collecting so many makes me think it's not much of a grind for you.
There isn't a single prestige skin that interests me, so unless BHVR follow through on their statement that they'd be making prestiging 'worth it', I see no purpose in it. I'd rather pour my BP into cool addons and teachables I don't have.
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
I get the feeling that rank, while kind of meaningless now, plays a role in your MMR and what survivor kits you run into in the later ranks. Seems to hold true. My rank never goes down, because of the grade changes, and the survivors I run into are all using the same kits. Either that or there are other hidden effects at play for sure.
I'll say that ever since I hit high-ish MMR I have seen the same builds over and over with so little variance that it isn't funny. Doesn't matter if I get 4 games in a row where all 4 survivors leave. Nothing changes. So the only thing I can imagine is the grade system still plays a role in our MMR.
That...actually wouldn't surprise me. I was literally thinking this today,
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@gammatsunami said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RY2LILKBL950/untitled.png
This has happened 3 times during the double bp event now haha
I feel you, and I play killer.
Game 1 with streamers: First survivor DCs the second I pick them up. Second survivor DCs immediately after.
Game 2 with streamers: Toxic smurfing SWF with a map offering. Dookies all over me and teabags all the way to the exit. We all end up with sub 20k.
Game 3 with streamers: Toxic smurfing SWF with a map offering. I get 3 hooks all game. I get told to uninstall in postgame.
No more streamers for anyone.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah I'm expecting some unnecessary nerfs that gut her. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
I will say that this would probably be the final straw for me.
It would mean that the devs have a vision for the game that is so different to mine that I'd probably just quit, and see if anything changed in a year or so (again).
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@BlackRabies said:
I've been taking a break from DbD for about a week. Maybe just save it all for the bird lady or the new survivor they should be released Tuesday if you want either of them.
If not can use then on which ever killer that requires certain add ons that your always using and running low on.
For me that's Demo. I find him so much more enjoyable with soda can, whistle and his iris.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665245#Comment_2665245
I didn't list the other issues and focused on speed because I'm too lazy to list problems with the game that has been said all over and over again. As I said game could be perfectly balanced and it still won't fix those stuff.
Would it make less seen? Obviously but again won't stop people from being wanting to do it for the funny.
Shrug. Anymore than it would stop survivors being flicky flicky with flashlights and giving photosensitive players issues.
I'm saying that I think the majority of playstyles that survivors find objectionable are a product of killers feeling like it's the only way to win.
@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665134#Comment_2665134
Omg someone that understands the actual meaning of gen rush.
Honestly, it's like 'tunneling'. It's basically used as a catch all term for 'I lost and I'm unhappy about it'.
Camping the hook and immediately downing the survivor after the unhook is vanishingly rare, and you have several perks to negate this.
Genrushing...actual genrushing doesn't really have a counter unless you are playing a very specific killer/build. Which is why you see endless streams of Nurse and Blight at high MMRs.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665230#Comment_2665230
Not the point. Point is people are acting as if fixing Gen times or problems in the game would suddenly magically woosh camping and tunneling away. That'll never happen.
I think that it would definitely help.
Again, speeds aren't the issue. Maps still having infinites, perks like CoH which can counter an entire killer kit by itself (Wraith), Dead Hard, SWF stompcomps, over half the killer roster needing serious buffs/reworks and the sheer speed at which gens can be done with certain perk/addon combinations is the issue.
You aren't going to make tunneling go away, because - again - that seems to just be optimal play as a killer.
Camping is usually about as much fun for the killer as it is for the survivors, and they take a penalty for it. I think a lot of killers camp because they are frustrated and sometimes, after several bad matches in a row, it seems to be the only way to actually feel like you stand a chance of getting a kill. There's a reason you see more camping Bubbas and Pigs than you do camping Nurses or Spirits.
Mark my words. Make it less frustrating to play killer. You'll see a lot less facecamping.
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@ScarBack said:
Ever since MMR came out I had always questioned if it actually was working relatively smoothly. For those who don’t know how MMR works, watch Otzdarva’s video on it; it explains it in really simple terms.
Anywho, I (like many people) noticed that ever since MMR arrived, my killer games are a lot more sweaty. More SWF running toolboxes w/ brand new part, medkits w/ styptic, Boon totems, DS, Borrowed Time, etc.
Since the bloodhunt event started, I decided to solely grind bloodpoints and not even worry about kills. And since I didn’t care about kills, I decided now would be a good time to run a little experiment: play every game as a single killer, play normally and get everyone to death hook, but then just let them finish gens and escape. I did this on Doctor just because he’s fun and I don’t mind playing a ton of games as him. So far I’ve played a little over 30 games as Doctor where I let every single survivor go.
For context, I’m a pretty average killer. Maybe slightly above average, but nothing significant. I play a big variety of killers and am pretty average at all of them. So that should give you a general idea of where my MMR would be at.
The weird thing is, though, that my games haven’t changed at all. I was expecting that after 6 or 7 straight losses that I’d start facing some potato survivors, but that never happened. 10 games, 15 games, 20 games, and eventually 30 games went by where I saw no difference. In fact, I’ve recently had some of the sweatiest games I’ve ever seen before. Yesterday I faced a 4 man SWF all running soul guard, for the people, Boon: circle of healing, and borrowed time, with 2 of them running toolboxes with brand new part, and the other 2 with medkits.
No matter how many games I lose, I keep coming up against 4 man SWF that are obviously not low MMR. Some games they may not be SWF but still have 1 or 2 teammates that are insanely good and can loop me for days, and some games every survivor is just really solid overall. Occasionally I’ll check profiles and I’ll see some of the people I go up against have 500, 1000, and even a couple times I saw 1500 hours!!!
And before you ask, no, I’m not playing at times of day where there aren’t many players, which usually causes matchmaking to pair you up with whoever is available even if they’re vastly different in MMR. I play in the evening when matchmaking is instant and you don’t ever have to wait more than 30 seconds. And no, my Doctor MMR was not particularly high before starting the 30 game losing streak. I’m not bad at doctor, but I’m definitely not winning matches all the time.
So all of this is what leads me to believe that MMR is not working how it should be. When you lose matches, the MMR value should go down, and the matchmaking system should pair you up with survivors with an average MMR similar to your own. After more than 30 consecutive losses you logically shouldn’t be going up against 4 man SWF that can CJ Tech you and pull off crazy spins, and the fact that this is the case means that Behavior didn’t actually make the MMR system the way they described it. I also think that’s why you’re not allowed to see your own MMR value.
Behavior knows that if they let you see the actual numerical MMR value, people would call them out as liars after seeing things like a killer at 600 points being paired up with a team of survivors each around 2500 points (or vice versa).
Has anyone else noticed this problem? Is this more of a killer problem than a survivor problem? Has anyone else seen or done any additional testing on this topic? I’d love to hear other people’s opinions on this.
A few things (woof that was a long read, even by my usual waffling post standards).
Let's go point by point.
- I'd guess that we are at a similar MMR. Intermediate. I'm not sure what time of day you are playing at, or what region, but my games are a lot better now.
- I still get the occasional weird match. This is usually either due to smurfing (usually SWFs sandbagging their MMRs by repeatedly suiciding/AFKing to stomp at low levels), someone having a long queue time somewhere and me being the 'closest' killer or the SBMM system being seemingly offline entirely (usually characterized by absolutely instant queues in quick succession).
- 30 game losing streak...I honestly don't know if that's possible. I've had losing streaks before, but nothing close to that since ranks went away. My longest has been a 6 game streak that saw me paired up against lowbies the next day, and I was learning a brand new killer.
- That said, there does seem to be a possible 'hell' region, below standard 'low' MMR where a lot of the really dedicated smurfs congregate. I think I found it once while I was learning Demo.
- No, if you really had a 30 game loss streak you shouldn't be getting paired up with monsters. That makes me think that there's something...off here. I'm not sure what. Because I know that if I lose several games back to back, I'm almost guaranteed a string of pretty decisive victories.
- I have a theory that MMR does not always update correctly and can take a few hours to kick changes in. This seems to be the case, because I'll get stomped three times before bed, win once (I always try to go out on a win), get stomped 3 more times in the morning, go to work and the second evening rolls around I'm flattening people for several games in a row.
- That all said - yes. Sometimes I get paired up against people I shouldn't be - either people substantially below or above my skill level. That said, it happens a lot less frequently than it did before MMR.
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@luvcraft said:
I honestly don't understand people saying they have to grind for BP, because I CONSTANTLY have to carefully manage my BP to avoid hitting the million BP cap (I guess because I enjoy doing dailies and tome challenges a lot more than everyone else does?).
I have all the survivors at level 50, and a couple at 3-50, and all the killers at 50 and a few at 3-50, and I don't see any benefit to prestiging the ones who aren't at 3-50, especially because I'll lose all the items they have. And the only benefit of prestiging a character is getting their "covered in blood" cosmetic. (I know it also makes rarer items slightly more likely to show up on bloodweb, but there have been countless discussions here about how that bonus is so low that it's essentially worthless, akin to getting a "+0.0001% attack power" buff on League of Legends or something).
So what should I spend BP on? I also have a bunch of un-popped tome challenges because I like doing them but I'm already maxed on BP and want to save the BP for new characters (or to quickly level up characters in PTB, although honestly it's crazy that PTB characters aren't maxed out to begin with if they want us to test them with all their powers). I'm also disincentivized from levelling up my 3-50 characters any more once I have all the perks I want because the next time I unlock a new perk I want then ideally I want to be one or two nodes short of a complete bloodweb so I can unlock the perk, finish the bloodweb, and immediately see the perk.
I guess for now I'll go ahead and prestige someone who's not at 3-50, but I'll have this same problem again in a couple week when I'm back up to a million BP.
Stocked up on fancy addons for Pig, Doctor, Hag, Demo, unlocked some teachables and have 1m left over to stuff into Artist when I get my hands on her.
...That came out wrong.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665106#Comment_2665106
It's literally a fix, not a buff. This is one of the only times that a mechanic has literally been fixed, yet people claim it's a buff. Yet when window blockers were added, people call it a fix, even though it was objectively a nerf.
And yeah, Tunneling is obviously a thing. If a survivor gained 8k BP because they have been chased from the start of the match untill the end of the match, they were tunneled. Your objective as a killer is to kill all survivors. Focusing on only 1/4th of your objective, is literally tunneling.
And while I agree that in the normal flow of the game, having 1 survivor dead at 2 gens is often a really good step to kill at least 3 survivors, that is ignoring the fact that when all gens are finished, the game isnt over. There still is quite a large portion of the game remaining. I cant tell you how often I have won the game with 4 survivors left and 0 gens remaining without even bringing NOED. I cant tell you how many games I have lost even though 1 survivor died with 3 gens remaining.
But there is 1 big problem: you're assuming you deserve to win. You dont. If you are playing against players of your own caliber, you should lose 50% of the game. And that isnt even applying the fact that with MMR, a 1k could be considered a win. If you're facing 3 potatoes with 700 ELO, and 1 survivor with 1900 ELO while you are 1000 ELO, then you kill the survivor with 1900 ELO, you gain MMR even though you only killed 1 survivor.
You have a personal definition of a win, while that definition of a win is in itself entitlement. If I play Treasurekeeper Bubba, I win as long as the item remains in the game. I'd lose if the item leaves the game. Survivors are going to be bored as heck and wouldnt really consider it a win, even though by your own definition, you won.
It doesnt even really matter if the majority of the community agrees with you, it's not something that is set in stone. If you consider an increase in MMR to be a win, depending on the players in the match, that win condition could be a 1k or a 3k. If you consider the pipping system to be a win, a 0k could be a win. If you consider having the most BP in the match to be a win, a 4k could be a loss.
Since MMR is the only way to face better or worse opponents, meaning it's the closest thing we have to a win/lose condition, dying as a survivor means a loss, even if 3 teammates escape, and gaining MMR counts as a win, even if 3 survivors escape. Meaning any specific win condition you have in mind, is an entitlement.
Sometimes a 'fix' amounts to a buff.
Dead Hard was a meta (arguably the meta) perk with all it's former quirks.
Now, not only is it effectively a zero risk third health state on a short cooldown, but constantly feeds killers fake hits and eats powers, which cannot be fixed due to it being a validation issue.
Hence: buff.
If a bug is unfixable, then it needs to be treated as a feature.
And no, my goal is to kill all the survivors before the gates are done. Removing one survivor from the equation is the easiest route to this goal quite frequently, ergo: optimal play, ergo: meta.
Now, this can be done in a cheesy manner (tunneling off hook) or how I do it which is simply prioritizing them in chase. I'm not sure what you expect killers to do - do you want them to just avoid chasing someone because they were recently unhooked? Prioritize other survivors? No.
I play to win and to have fun. If I go easy on people, I get teabagged all the way to the exit gates and told to uninstall in postgame. I'm going to take control of the game as firmly and as soon as I can, then I might decide to be nice. Which is the only time I've ever been thanked by survivors.
And don't strawman. I don't believe I 'deserve' to win. But that doesn't mean I'm going to just avoid chasing people and let the other side win either, any more than a survivor is going to give me a pity hook when they 4-out me.
A win is a 3k or more. A loss is a 1k or less. A 2k (which almost never happens) is a draw. That is both my definition of a win, and the commonly accepted definition of a win. And thus, that is going to be my goal ingame. Plus, you won't pip past Iri 3 without getting Ruthless at least, which on a lot of killers is nearly impossible to do without a 3k.
I think we have very different definitions of 'entitlement'. But I will say that if you're telling someone how to play the game outside of cheating or being a jerk, then it's not them with an entitlement issue...
@Myla said:
If those problems magically go away it won't stop people from being camping or tunneling. The game is built in a way that allows it. Game could be perfectly balanced and a someone can just wake up on the wrong side of the bed and decided "Hmmm I want to be a giant D today"
BHVR have made it clear that they consider facecamping a problem and are working on a mechanical change to discourage it.
They've also made it clear that proxy camping and tunneling are perfectly acceptable.
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@mrmain21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665142#Comment_2665142
One could say that the killers objective is to protect the generators to ensure the exit gates never get powered. So therefore quick gens don't need to be solved?
I agree with OP in many games, especially tough ones, tunneling often will grant 2 kills. Camping isn't quite as effective, but if the team is being efficient and trying to finish a gen first, the killer coming back to interrupt a save and force struggle to then just kill them off hook is so incredibly effective and works on strong teams. So during that time the killer chased someone off a generator and probably took a health state from them to then leave chase and force 2nd, then kill.
You can go to any stream and see this happen all day, because it is so effective even against super strong players. If you make it harder to do the gens then even strong teams will be 3kd or even 4kd consistently against an equally skilled killer.
So I do agree with op and I also agree with others in rebalancing maps, some more filler pallets and less pallet gyms or nerfing HOP loops.
'Quick gens' in isolation? Not a problem. You should be countering.
SWFs running fancy toolboxes and popping 2 gens within 30 seconds of a match starting? Problem. There isn't any real way to counter that.
Killers making sure a survivor dies ASAP by not constantly dropping chase with someone that you've already hooked? Not a problem. Play better.
Killers facecamping with Insidious Bubba on the first hook? Problem. There isn't any real way to counter that.
I watch quite a lot of high MMR streams. Killers win and loose. DbD is a snowbally game by nature.
Rule of 3: if a survivor isn't dead by the time 3 gens are done, you're almost certainly going to get 0-1k max unless you brought NOED or survivors make a blunder. If a survivor is dead, you should get a 3-4k unless you make a blunder.
Again, what you are describing as 'tunneling' is the killer's only realistic way to win in many matches. If you were able to convince the devs to make killers a bit less of an uphill battle against teams that know what they are doing, then - sure. We can talk about some more 'anti tunneling' perks. Until then...Rule of 3.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2665106#Comment_2665106
Yes I agree gen speeds isn't the issue but people continue assert that when they suggest to Increase gen speeds
Also tunneling is most definitely a thing. The fact that the killer are supposed to kill survivors is irrelevant. Otherwise that's like saying gen rushing isn't a thing because the survivors have to do gens as quickly as possible to win
Genrushing isn't simply a strategy. Survivors are supposed to do gens before they can be killed.
'Genrushing' refers to bringing stuff like multiple PTS and BNP with fancy toolboxes and slamming out gens so fast that the killer cannot realistically do anything. 'Rush' infers a gimmicky, cheesy play that requires substantially less effort to execute than it does to counter, as per 'rushing' in RTS games.
'Tunneling' is just killers playing the game properly. If you wanted to make it so survivors were immune to being hooked unless you hook the other 3 survivors or something before, or whatever you are suggesting, you'd have to rebalance the game from the ground up and approximately triple killer power.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Say what you want about these strategies but they are direct opposite of each others and are used as a way to help gain momentum to their side. These strategies counter each other. Because they are basically two side of the same coin. together that they even help perpetuate an unfun cycle (Ie killers tunnel and camp so survivor feel they need to gen rush and then killers need to continue camping and tunneling because of said gen rushing and etc etc)
I see people suggest that they should increase gen speeds or add second objectives to prevent gen rushing but again because these two strategies counter each other fixing one without the other would create a massive imbalance for one side. For example say that gen rushing was made impossible for the survivors to do. The killer basically have no repercussions for camping and tunneling and can easily implore on the the two strategies to take a survivor out of the game and get massive pressure that makes coming back nearly important. Similarly if camping and tunneling is solved but gen rushing is still a thing the killer would not be able to gain any momentum to help counter the gen rush thus making the game unbalanced towards the survivor side.
Furthermore the issues of prevalent meta perks like DS and BT and ruin undying is only made more annoying because of gen rushing and camping and tunneling. Since these perks are used to counter these strategies. They are ultimately band aid fixes to the problem and could easily be dealt with if BOTH of these strategies are handled.
It's an unfortunate truth but because of this we can't make any sorta change to either unfun strategy without dealing with both.
The issue isn't gen speeds.
It's the maps themselves. Too many strong, safe tile combos and freebie gens. Combine this with the insanity of CoH and the 'fixed' (see: buffed) Dead Hard and...yeah.
There is a reason killers camp.
'Tunneling' isn't a thing. Removing one survivor from the game ASAP is how killers are supposed to play. If you don't have someone dead by 2 gens remaining, you've lost unless the survivors massively misplay or you have brought NOED.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
That whole chat is the whole reason Basement Bubba is still around killers try to play fair they get harassed and bullied to the point of ruining other peoples fun to get revenge
Yup.
It's a cycle.
For example, I started out today playing really nice. I brought streamers, let people farm a bit and did everything I could to give people a fun, fair match.
Then I ran into a bunch of butt goblins that flicky flicky teabag teabagged me, while playing in an SWF that had evidently smurfed their MMR down to silly levels (one had 7200 hours played).
Postgame, the usual yakking.
Immediately after this I had another toxic SWF, including a Dwight with the most annoyingly strobe-y flashlight macro I've ever seen.
Postgame was like
Him: GGEZ uninstall scrub games full.
Me: You'd think people would be friendlier during a Bloodhunt, especially when I bring streamers...
Him: Nah, my goal is to make as many killer players as possible uninstall.
Me: Sigh. Maybe stick to teabagging then. You're going to literally give someone a seizure one day.
Him: Good. I hope so.
I went for a lie down with a headache.
I'm sure the survivors I played against this evening had a much less enjoyable time than those I played against this morning.
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@OniWantsUrLocation said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664364#Comment_2664364
Sometimes people use their flashlight a little too early. When they realize they're too early, they can just stop flashing for a split second and re-flash to correct their timing. With a flashlight cooldown that would no longer work, but since it is a skill component, it should stay in the game.
As someone with photosensitivity issues, I honestly don't care.
Buff flashlights in some other way if you have to, but the strobing gives me a massive headache and nausea.
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@kinda_toxic said:
you couldn’t play the game if survivor players didn’t exist so stop grouping them all together
Looks at name.
*Blinks rapidly*.
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664643#Comment_2664643
You can't appeal to their humanity because they're just that ignorant and self-absorbed.
Yeah, I run into complete butts playing survivor on an almost daily basis. It definitely wears on you.
While killers do sometimes camp or slug, I can't think of the last time one was a gloating schmuck in postgame. Survivors on the other hand, especially playing SWF - people wonder why nobody wants to play killer these days.
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@dugman said:
Keep in mind Huntress comes with the game and might be the best of the starting characters after Nurse so it shouldn’t be surprising if she’s popular. Blight requires shards to purchase so him being as popular as a base game character is a testament to how good he is.
I wonder who the most popular licensed killer is though? You actually have to pay a small amount of money for them so it requires a little extra desire to want them. Leatherface aka Bubba might be the most effective licensed killer? But with the licensed ones I wouldn’t be surprised if their popularity has as much or more to do with the popularity of their franchise. 🤷♂️
Yeah it'd be Bubba.
It's a pity, because Demogorgon is possibly the most fun killer in this game to play. He also has pretty great addons.
If only his base Undetectable coming out of portals lasted longer and Shred was a bit faster to charge, he'd feel pretty much perfect.
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Hag plant skin and 'blighted' skin.
Doctor 'blighted' skin.
I forget what it's called, but the spiky, black Demogorgon skin.
Really hoping for a more 'avian' Artist skin down the line.
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@awustzdn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664950#Comment_2664950
This is the first Bloodhunt we've gotten since 2019 that wasn't tied to Anniversary.
Hopefully this is an indication that we'll be seeing more of these, because oh man is the grind just so much more tolerable.
Seriously, I have no less than 3 people I'd be able to bring into the game if it wasn't for the grind.
It's one of the two things that makes DbD sort of a tough-sell.
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@Big_Booty_Jane said:
I find it especially hilarious that whenever I play killer, I get the toxic Dwights, yet when I'm survivor, I get a Dwight who doesn't leave the locker. Lol
That's Nancys. Always. I've seen a Nancy AFK in locker despite me trying to give her hatch.
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@BigChapAlien21 said:
Anyone else ever start experimenting when they felt the meta perks weren't cutting it for them?
I often found that I was getting frustrated trying to run hardcore meta builds or builds recommended by other players instead of trying to feel out what suited how I played Pyramid Head.
Recently, though, I felt I've found a build that feels both strong and fun. Ruin/Haunted Grounds/All Ears/Nurse's Calling. I used to hate running Ruin since it seemed to die in a few minutes even with Undying, but with Haunted I can use Ruin to bait Survivors into getting exposed for some devastating pressure early on. It felt really good and I got 3 4Ks in a row with the build when usually I go back and forth over and over.
What was it like when you found the build that fit you best?
I mostly go for fun and maximum information/jumpscare potential.
Playing+Retribution is a glorious combination.
On Hag I run Devour Hope+Surge+BBQ+Monitor, which works really well.
On Doctor I run Lullaby+Overcharge+BBQ+Discordance, which is brilliant unless they find Lullaby super early.
On Pinhead and Demogorgon I run Plaything+Retribution+BBQ+Surge, which is a ton of fun.
On Pig I run Monitor+STBFL+BBQ+Devour Hope
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
These were very funny! A personal one just for me:
As the trapper, hit a survivor caught in a trap then proceed to pick up the trap and take it to a hook because your too dumb to pay attention to what you are doing. Somehow manage to do this twice in one trial despite having 2200 hours in the game.
Thanks!
Added a few more.
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@GuyFawx said:
If anyone hunts down dwights their in for a mess of Revenge of the nerds
Bring it on.
Right now I'm on a mess of Revenge of the Hags.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
So thats why i always get tunneled when i play the elf
Well, technically speaking toxic Dwights are the reason.
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@ukenicky said:
Idk about you all but I've had almost non-stop bad experiences this weekend getting to capitalize on the double BP. When I play survivor I get tunneled out or face camped first or the match just gets ended asap which like, it's fine if a killer wants to 4k quickly I understand but it's such a waste of sacrificial cakeee like ugh imagine the BP they could have gotten. And then conversely on killer side I try to bring cake and initiate a farm / help do challenges and survivors really say no and decide to bully instead.
So I've resorted to just being tryhard and "toxic" (By in game standards) since both sides have been nothing but toxic to me and I just honestly have felt so bad for trying to do that like ugh does it always get like this during bonus BP events? I don't ever want to use sacrificial cake again and I have a ton of that shi on my killers 😭
Literally the only thing that's been keeping me playing lately is I really want the Plague and Feng skins from Rift and I'm also sorta excited for The Artist but it's just like every match has been PAIN and it wasn't like this before the Bloodhunt so yeah idk share your experiences if you want I just wanted to vent I guess. I did have one really amazing match where I made friends with one of the survivors afterwards because we found out we both play ffxiv which was wholesome but those interactions tend to be 1 in every hundred matches lol
No, it's actually been really good for the most part.
A handful of explosively toxic premades, a couple of people AFK/suiciding obviously trying to smurf their MMR down but mostly it's been good. Lots of people just chilling and looking to farm a bit. Even had the second survivor ever give me a pity hook at the end of the game.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Really? It's hardly ever the Dwights for me. They're often part of the group that does it, sure, but more often than not they're a bumbling idiot.
It's always Dwights for me. Often in that daft 'jester' or 'Christmas' skin.
@IronKnight55 said:
I usually never see toxic Dwight's. It's usually Nea and Feng that are the most toxic in my games.
I've seen the occasional toxic Nea and Meg, but generally it's a Dwight. I wonder if it's some sort of proximate revenge of someone who resembles Dwight IRL and gets pushed around a lot.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664757#Comment_2664757
I think it's healthy for a company to be wary of its competitors. VHS doesn't need to kill off DBD. Even if it took 10% of its players, that amounts to a loss in revenue.
"scared" is a childish way to put it, but if they're not doing something about it or at least taking it into consideration, then it's foolish.
Competition is a good thing.
@EvilTurnip690 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664780#Comment_2664780
coincidences don't happen in this industry bub
No, they don't.
But always apply Ockham's Razor.
Either there is a weird conspiracy to undermine VHS in some sort of petty industry feud, or it's just a standard Bloodhunt to mark a special occasion.
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Well, I'm sorry in advance but Dwight is now going to be 'kill on sight' for a while.
Seriously, smurfing 3-man of flicky flicky teabag teabag jerks with fully stacked perks and a map offering. In a game I brought streamers to because 'hey, last day of Bloodhunt, let's all have some fun'.
I now believe there are too many Dwights in the world and I'm now going to be doing a cull.
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@Mineguy said:
Hmmm why do we have bloodhound excactly then when the VHS beta comes out? What a weird coincidence am I right fellow gamers?
But for real it's sad how bhvr tries such a cheap trick to try to make people not play the demo. Bhvrs answer about everything is Bloodpoints in form of cheap events or codes.
Because Thanksgiving?
Why would BHVR be scared of VHS?
VHS could be fun, one day, but there's plenty of room for two APVP horror games in this world.
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@LiquidSoap said:
Someone should keep the survivors in check their behavior is way out of hand!
I will post the uncensured version if someone decides to look into this event.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HB78TO7RNM9S/untitled-copy.png
Yup.
Don't engage with them. Don't egg them on. Just imagine that their lives feel so pointless and empty that the only way they can get attention is by being anonymous jerks in a videogame.
Be polite, and report them.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664606#Comment_2664606
S = Stupid OP
A = Agonizingly strong
B = Bad for the game
D = Dumb
F = Fair
S = Super balanced
A = Almost balanced
B = Badly in need of a buff
C = Can we get this buffed already
D = Don't bother playing
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@GannTM said:
Tuesday is the day that I get to finally play as the second most fun killer in the whole game. I can’t wait to make survivors miserable shooting crows across the map and locking down loops (that is a joke please don’t crucify me). PSA: this is the reason my avatar is Spies from the Shadows for the time being because of crow lady.
The reason I’m nervous though is that BHVR for some reason likes gutting strong and fun killers and they might do it to Artist. The only acceptable nerf for her would be to remove getting damaged from idle dire crows, but I better not see some unnecessary change that makes her unfun.
BHVR, you did a great job with the Artist, she’s fun to play as and against, and she isn’t OP at all. Please do not ruin it!
Really excited for her too.
Just hope she doesn't get a Cenobite or Twins level gutting. Or Wraith. Or Deathslinger.
Sigh.
It's fun to dream.
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@BrokenSouI said:
That's easy. 99 your main event. Camp a hook. Down both
Sadly, this. It's one of the challenges that sort of requires you to either camp or get very lucky.
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@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
If you are going to tunnel as the Cannibal, Wraith, Spirit or any of those tunnel-able killers, at least make the tunneling worth while for both players.
Do some chase, watch them vault windows, etc. Play with your food so that the other person at least feels like they've done something the entire game. Don't just go straight for the kill as soon as they get unhooked.
I swear, boring people in real life even play games boringly.
My objective is generally to kill 1 person as early as possible to make the game manageable.
I'm not going to be a camper (unless you annoy me), but if you've been hooked, expect to get hooked again if the opportunity arises and act accordingly.
I like chases. I don't like being looped around a pseudo-infinite for ages.
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@Pizzasauce said:
I actually notice it a lot with different survivors. For example, if I see a Scoops Ahoy Steve I'm like, "Oh boy, here's comes another t-bagging jackass."
As far as killers go, I definitely feel more playful with Trickster and like a mofo beast with Nemesis.
Yeah, that skin and the 'Christmas' or 'Jester' Dwight tend to be the most toxic little goblins in the game.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Instead of just doing what it takes to win… Putting yourself in a game if able makes it more immersive/fun. I’ve been winning a lot more. When I lose I’m not as upset either. It’s similar to picking a killer that best suits your approach. Some people can play a particular killer often, but can never really get the feel for them.
Say you’re a paramedic IRL. You’d have powers that’ll help/find injured people. If you’re an athlete you’d have adrenaline perks to utilize against a threat. If you’re a narcissist you’ll have selfish powers like Left Behind, or Fast Track. If you’re an activist you’d have something like For the People. If you’re intuitive you’d have “sense” powers like Premonition, Small Game, etc.
So based on my job (Pharmacy Tech), personality (Eccentric), and my lifestyle full of misadventures whenever I go somewhere… I decided that my “Personal” build is…
Streetwise. Built To Last. Pharmacy. Ace in the Hole / Mettle of Man.
I basically risk my own well-being to protect others, and that gets me into trouble. Looking out for others during their time misfortune keeps me going IRL. Even if it brings me misfortune. Whenever I go the extra mile to help people I “Shine” the most, and I see the change for better.
Obviously the build has its shortcomings. There’s killers like Plague that renders healing items useless. One Shot killers can deny the healthy state. The thing is who cares? The game is random. So you can play 3 nights without seeing a single Plague, or Ghost Face. Etc. It makes sense that if you make a particular build it’ll have a natural weakness. Much like having an arch enemy the way the survivors do in the game. In my case my “Arch Enemy” would be The Plague.
That’s my general take on DBD to make it more fun, at least for me. So tell me. If you were thrown into the Entity’s Realm what powers/perks would you have? Based on your profession, personality, hobbies, lifestyle, etc? Be honest! Because everyone in DBD wouldn’t have Dead Hard, Adrenaline, Decisive, and CoH. 😂
That's exactly what I did as killer.
My focus is always on causing maximum havoc, moreso than just 4king.
Plaything+Retribution+BBQ+Devour Hope/Tinkerer/Surge
The Plaything+Retribution is the core of this. They either give me massive info or get constantly jumpscared.
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@Karaage said:
Don't Judge!
Remain on hatch for 60 seconds before it opens while the third survivor dies on hook.
This needs a rework, hatch no longer spawns when there's more than one survivor alive.
I know, I had this saved on my PC a while back :)
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2663662#Comment_2663662
I feel like I run survivor that stretch res more then hackers because when playing survivor im like how did they seem to know exactly where I was on this loop. I have ran into a couple of speed hackers that were just a little to fast and quite a few killers that know exactly where I am across the map and no bbq.
Yeah, res manipulation is unfortunately going to be very difficult to fix or even detect because it's done via a driver-level program usually and doesn't require any unusual apps.
The problem isn't the overt hackers. Those guys will almost certainly get banned, and at least you'll know to lobby dodge them if you see them again.
The problem are the sneaky Sams that do it cleverly enough for nobody else to realize.
Killers...yeah. I will say though that I get accused of hacking several times a week because I'm running either the Demo addon that lets you see auras, Discordance or Lethal Pursuer.
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@gammatsunami said:
I couldnt reach her or get her in any way. Seems like an exploit to me? Happened a few times now Last time I was deathslinger so it was ok. As myers I couldnt do anything
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WZ4POMNEOJ9J/untitled.png
No, unfortunately. You can get up there, but it's a gigantic pain in the posterior - and she'll just run, get back up there and do it again and again.
BHVR have said that there is a fix in the works though. Until then, just hope you won't get the map.
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@luvcraft said:
Even though I know "survive with twitch" isn't a real offense and survivors won't be punished for it, I often report it anyway when it's really egregious, because I've noticed that when I report someone I never get matched with them again. IDK if that's actually a thing or just luck of the draw, but I like to think it's actually a thing. :)
Nope.
Ran into a guy yesterday abusing a specific spot in Disturbed Ward where, if the killer downs you, you'll be slugged in a spot where they can't reach you but other survivors can. Reported him.
Got him again today.
I brought a Mori, my best addons and made very sure to kill him first.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Seriously I hate these replacements achievements.
What was Adept Demo: Achieve a merciless victory 5 times in a public match with only 3 universal perks equipped.
FIVE TIMES???? IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO DO IT ONCE WITH MMR!!!!
What was Adept Steve: Escape 8 times while repairing the equivalent of 1 generator with only 2 universal perks equipped.
*takes a deep breath slowly* not even going to comment...
I hate these achievements and I wish I just did Adept Demogorgon and Adept Steve.
I tried Adept Demogorgon several times pre-removal.
I gave up on maybe my 6th close attempt, after realizing that the hardest part wasn't the achievement itself, it was finding a team that will let you get a Merciless without DCing at some point.
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@Surikato said:
I encountered hackers in 5 different matches both as a survivor and killer
I don't...think so.
My guess is that due to MMR, forum regulars/popular streams (who are disproportionally veterans of the game) encounter them a lot more regularly, leading everyone else to be more observant of them in their games.
That said, BHVR is going to have to do something about this. Even at my crappy MMR, I see the odd 'that guy is either a god level player or has wallhacks' match.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2663590#Comment_2663590
Have you ever put butter on a Pop Tart? It's so friggin' good.
Thanks.
Now that damn song will be in my head until 4am.
@ShinobuSK said:
Out of all killers that camped me yesterday, none of them was Bubba.
But I had one bubba camp game, he just couldnt catch me so camped teammate instead.
Bubba is a very annoying killer to play sometimes, especially on indoor maps or maps with a lot of vaults/powerful loops.
Personally, I don't camp - unless you BM me.
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@Beaburd said:
You know it's bad when you watch that video, see the first hook, and think to yourself: "Wait, only one gen popped?"
Then the second gen popped shortly after the hook and I thought "that's more like it."
The especially scary thing is that was a short chase, and three gens would have been entirely possible there. In fact, it's entirely possible generators as a whole could have gone even faster.
---
But it's okay, almost everyone died in the end, so the bias data the devs use to confirm their terrible balancing decisions is validated.
Time to nerf killer.
This is the key problem here. It's not a matter of MMR.
Rank based matchmaking was only really cloaking the real problem - the fact that the current balance of this game means that killers are locked into playing only a few killers/builds at high MMR, while survivors have the opposite problem: they have tons of good perks, but a few are so overwhelmingly powerful that bringing anything else is playing the game wrong.
Under ranks, high MMR people would have a wide variety of opponents, giving them a lot of much easier games. Now that they are facing people of a similar MMR, the hackers, the imbalances and the general stress of playing killer is exposed.
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@P3ToxicLaurie said:
The devs thought they were slick. They obviously added a new matchmaking system, or updated the previous one. Survivor queues are 5 mins minimum usually, and they always have over 100 ms. Never under that, and if it is, it bounces back and forth. Scotts video explains this better and with more detail. Just revert the ######### matchmaking, nobody cares if they have to wait an extra 30 seconds to find a game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw_Fd7kBj1U
Earlier today, CP off, got multiple consistent matches where I got hit through multiple windows when I literally completed the vault, and ran forward a little bit. And hit validation did nothing. The latency (in my experience) hasn't been this bad in months. Obviously they tweaked something.
Okay...
- What does hit validation have to do with MMR?
- I agree with Scott on some things here - some aspects of MMR need to be more nuanced.
- I disagree on some others. The massive spike in survivor wait times seem to coincide with CoH, not MMR. I'd also wonder if the Dead Hard fix (see: buff) had something to do with it.
- Yes, killers are having a rough time right now.
- Before MMR was introduced, killers had no matchmaking protections. These were removed towards the middle of last year if I recall, because survivors at high MMRs complained about...guess what? Queue times.
- This meant that survivors and killers would face a much wider range of opponents (resulting in faster queue times for survivors in particular). This was fun for people at high MMR...not so much fun for everyone else.
- Naturally, giving killers back some form of matchmaking protections would see survivor queue times increase.
He does correctly point out that Steam numbers have remained fairly consistent, and excepting the standard autumn drop (every year sees one month in autumn with a 20%-ish falloff) don't show any serious consequence for adding MMR.
Personally, I'd like to see MMR be more reflective of skill on survivors. That said, the only way you are going to encourage more people to play killer is to make killer more fun (and powerful) at all MMRs. I know that my killer queues never go above 90 seconds on offpeak, while my survivor queues are seldom below 10 minutes on offpeak - and I'm intermediate at best.