Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020666#Comment_4020666
What reasonable discussion with someone that shows of its bias and lack of morals on a daily basis?
I go off of evidence and reason and data. So if you can provide something otherwise i'm all ears.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020020#Comment_4020020
No, I gave up explaining common sense to adults a long time ago.
Ah i see, well if you aren't willing to have a reasonable discussion about it there really isn't much of a point.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
I swear the killer mains love using the word “handholding”.
I was quoting the devs in the stream.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020028#Comment_4020028
It's not exactly something that needs deep research. Killers tunnel because it's unbalanced, that's always been why it happens.
There are definitely killer problems to fix too, but they're largely unrelated to tunnelling. Tunnelling just happens to be the response most killers choose because it's the most bang for your buck regarding effort to value.
Again, watch the stream, the devs seem like they have no clue whats going on. That is the entire point i'm making.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020028#Comment_4020028
It's not exactly something that needs deep research. Killers tunnel because it's unbalanced, that's always been why it happens.
There are definitely killer problems to fix too, but they're largely unrelated to tunnelling. Tunnelling just happens to be the response most killers choose because it's the most bang for your buck regarding effort to value.
I agree with that statement, but the devs literally said they don't know in that stream.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020018#Comment_4020018
I mean, this is a survivor problem we're all currently discussing here. Why wouldn't the surveys and language be primarily geared towards survivors?
It's not as though they never do anything for killers, or neglect to keep killers in mind for proposed changes. That's literally why the previous PTB had all those things delayed, it wasn't because it was causing problems for the survivors in those games.
Because its ignoring the entire picture. Even in the stream they seem to have no idea why killers tunnel. That right there is a very important and valid question to ask killer players: "hey why do you tunnel? Do you feel like you have to?" they even did it when they said that tunneling happens more at higher MMRs and just "well that's interesting, we aren't sure why, but maybe we could theorycraft something" like, don't you think that is relevant to the problem?
In regard to the changes being delayed. I don't actually believe that at this point, the reasons they gave IN THIS STREAM was that "it felt too handholdy, you know, killers got all these things" So based on the actual words coming out of the devs mouths, the reasoning is clearly because survivors didn't like it.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
To be honest, a few aspects could be adjusted, but referring to measures like the anti-face-camping system as “hand-holding” for survivors is rather cringeworthy.
Can you explain how its not?
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@jesterkind said:
Can I ask, sincerely, what is the reason behind people making a big deal of this?
It's not as though they said one set of changes was good and just but the other was handholdy and bad, the video you showed opened with them talking about how the rest of the changes were too restrictive and hardline for most people's tastes. I disagree with that, but they still acknowledged it there.
Realistically the only handholding change in the whole PTB was the basekit BBQ, since that'd allow players to completely brainlessly autopilot macro play.
Don't get me wrong, I could see that still being a healthy change, but that's neither here nor there.Its because it shows what the devs are thinking.
I don't actually care about what changes are being proposed, as that is not relevant to me at the moment, they aren't in the game, they need to go through PTB where they may receive some changes, or maybe even be scrapped again completely.
What matters to me is the language that the devs are using. I would suggest you watch Choy's video on this stream, its a bit long, but he points out that the language the devs are using indicates (i'm not saying proves) but indicates that they don't actually care about the killer players. Every word, every change, every reason behind every change is geared towarded
- "this is how survivor players feel"
- "we want player agency to matter (then proceeds to only describe things that are survivor things with agence)"
- "players described this as handholding, you know, you get all these cool basekit things for killer thats handholding"
Even in the recent information about the survey, they said camping and tunneling are the reason most players uninstall. Look even at the QUESTIONS on the survey when they adressed slugging a while back asking how players felt about it. Did they even have a SINGLE question that was geared toward killer players asking WHY they tunneled or slugged? Or asking them if they felt like they HAD to?
Again, i'm not saying that the devs are biased, i am not privvy to some secret information that would prove one way or the other. But they constantly keep releasing information, or posing questions, or posing changes and doing so in a way where they are obviously gearing toward survivor players.
Hell even in PATCH NOTES whenever they buff a killer for some completely unknown reason they ALWAYS nerf something about them, literally like every single time. The only exception to this is when they are reverting nerfs they previously did. The last time we had big changes that affected all killers was back in 6.1.0 which was almost 3 and a half YEARS AGO.
Look at their proposed buffs for the skull merchant. Even THOSE have some NERFS in them. WHY? She is horrible, her pick rate is horrible, her kill rate is horrible, and you INTENTIONALLY NERFED HER INTO OBLIVION so that people would NOT play her. A dev literally admitted this on stream, she wasn't nerfed for balance reasons, they just wanted people to stop playing her so people would stop complaining so they could spend time to rework her.
So my question to the devs is simple.
- Where are the surveys asking killer players how they feel about the game?
- Where are the surveys asking killer players why they are uninstalling?
- Where are the changes for killers who are really horribly undertuned that are actually just buffs and not "side grades"
- When are you going to ask killer players about the problems they face and what they would like to see changed?
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019210#Comment_4019210
So that would be the same lineup as befor the pallet changes. Like i said, its fake news.
I can go back to a block of 10 matches before that patch. Let me see that patch released on Sep 23, 2025 so let me pull some matches before that, it'll take a bit to find because i have to go through my backlog of recordings but i'll reply later.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/459196/please-revert-pallet-changes
How about not spreading fake news?
Here are my last 10 matches as survivor, you ready?
- Ghoul
- Ghoul
- Blight
- Nurse
- Myers
- Ghoul
- Ghoul
- Pig
- Ghostface
- Blight
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019093#Comment_4019093
So many definitives. ALWAYS going to have a bad first chase. ONLY playing the top tier killers. I realize being hyperbolic on the internet traditionally gets killers what they want (and it will this time too) but these things just aren't true. I'm not playing any of these suposed top tier killers right now nor am I seeing them often in my survivor matches.
You want evidence? Then give evidence. Post your stream of videos that show 3 gens popping during first chase with you making no mistakes and it solely being because of pallets, match after match. Post a stream of videos of survivor matches with nothing but Blights and Nurses.
I'm not the one making the claim here, the person i was replying to is. They said: "i just run these perks and i'm having a great time" so i'm pointing out things contrary to that, the onus is on them to provide the evidence that their claims are correct.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019079#Comment_4019079
Which is fair, but it's not every game in my case, some games that will happen regardless even with gen regression coz you still need to get the first down quickly.
with the new spawn rules if they are getting 3 gens first chase its probably due to an awful first chase, running chase perks helps with that.When they have 8000 pallets you are always going to have an awful first chase unless the survivor is bad. That's why people are playing the top tier killers only right now because they still have good first chases.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018968#Comment_4018968
The famous no slowdown build. Famously wins every game.
People who always say these types of things never actually post any matches where they are doing this, if they did we would either see:
- They are going against horrible players so perkless trapper would win
- They aren't actually doing as good as they say.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018965#Comment_4018965
I've just been running brutal/Enduring/Spirit Fury/Hubris and having a field day, so just adapt until they fix it.
Some of us don't like losing 3 gens in the first chase.
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@Crockodilich said:
Let’s be real — the current state of Dead by Daylight can feel rough.
Tunneling, DCs, stressful matches… sometimes it’s hard to remember why we started playing in the first place.So here’s a little idea — a call to anyone who wants to join in:
Let’s have some “Kind Killer” nights.
Play for fun, not for kills. Chase, laugh, vibe, and then let the survivors go free. Let them dance at the exit gates and enjoy a rare match filled with good energy instead of salt, maybe even give everyone a clean escape — just because you can.It’s not about ignoring the competition — it’s about reminding ourselves that we make this community special. Every small act of kindness sends a ripple through the fog.
So if you’re reading this and thinking, yeah, I could do that once in a while — this call is for you!
Let’s make the fog a better place, one friendly trial at a time.Its hard to stay chill when i get told i'm trash and to uninstall and start getting racial slurs thrown at me if i don't get a 4k.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018447#Comment_4018447
It's a shame that 1000-win Blight streak guy didn't make it up to "high MMR" I guess is what you're arguing, huh?
Win streaks are a horrible example of what i'm talking about. I have seen many of these players on "win streaks" who will say like "oh i'm pausing my blight streak because i just don't want to try hard today, or i'm doing challenges" and then they proceed to play blight and their mmr gets lower so later when its "unpaused" they get easier matches. Win streaks aren't a meaningful thing because they can be manipulated. There are plenty of examples i could give of survivors going on hundreds of game win streaks as well. Otz and Hens often play together doing the "all survivors all perks win streak challenge" periodically and pull it off all the time, are we going to talk about them or just only the one guy who plays blight?
There's also the reality that, 1 single person does not a statistically relevant stat make. Maybe that blight player just is the best player in the world, there's really no way to tell nor can they even "prove" their win streak either because its easy to just not record some matches and keep moving, there's no public record of your matches unless you choose to share it, and even that record could be edited.
But, what i do see is comp leagues make a ton of rules that hamper survivors like locking out certain perks, only allowing 1 of a perk across the team, locking out a ton of items and addons, as well as often playing the killer's best map. The exception to this is usually nurse and blight, but there are 30+ other killers that exist that must be accounted for.
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@Swampfox said:
Have you thought about it? because of every update that hurts the Killer side of things especially weak Killers this encourages them to use stronger killers or do unsportsman like things like slugging or tunneling in response
Pallet density and Generator repair speeds are part of this problem. skill or not. if it is based on skill how come more powerful Killers have became more popular/adopted recently the ones that depending on how you look at them, take more or less skill such as Wesker or nurse because of their high mobility?
Even I started to use them more often because I am not trying to slug as Billy sure Billy can destroy pallets instantly with this chainsaw but he still has to rev up the Chainsaw for longer than it would take to just break the pallet.
it does not help when the Survivor can just constantly pre-drop pallets and move on to the next pallet just 10 feet away doing this for the entire maps length as three generators can pop in the first minute of the game because of gen rush perks and tool boxes
I guarantee there's at least one peron, running weaving spiders in a third of every game anyone plays and on top of this.
the new survivor has not only a generator perk that can be paired with other generator perks and items to constantly get great skill checks that can complete the generator in half the time by Yourself.
But a perk that encourages you to be stealthy and not even take up chases but also lets you escape from chases extremely easy because you leave barely any trace or tracks to follow or go off of after the Survivor runs away faster than majority of killers to somewhere out of Sight, but can also be paired with perks that do the same thing without any requirement
I could literally run a circle inside of the shack and have my scratch marks disappear before I can Circle back to them because they disappear just around 3 seconds or less thats about the same amount of time it takes for a killer to damage a generator in
https://youtu.be/10GSoLZ0qb8?si=Omd6pv7XvSzERSQ6
Let me know Your thoughts on this one
It depends on what mmr you are playing.
- At the lowest levels (aka new players) the game is very killer sided
- At lower half mmrs, the game is slightly killer sided
- At the middle level, the game is pretty balanced (rng can factor in heavily swinging matches one way or the other though)
- At the upper half mmrs, the game is slightly survivor sided
- At the highest levels (aka comp level) the game is very survivor sided.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958287#Comment_3958287
Thanks a ton for sharing all of these screenshots and video, folks! This is immensely helpful and goes a long way in illustrating what you're experiencing. Let me bring all of this back to the folks who were working on this so that they can take a look at what might be occurring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957450#Comment_3957450
This is typically done to cut down on conversation about a given issue being fragmented across multiple posts, centralizing that discussion in - ideally - one place. In doing this, we try to merge and close bug report threads, but still actively check these closed threads for relevant proof points we can bring back to the team to aid in their investigations.
Hey @ThatRyanB
As of patch 9.2.3 this is still occuring. We are starting to get near almost 6 months of this not working and your silence on this has been deafening.
Do you have any information on this or any updates at all? Is this still being looked at?
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@BOJIK_102RU said:
by making pallets unsafe you only BUFFED S-tier killers, they can easily counter survivor rotation therefore more pallets doesnt really do much. but m1 killers are suffering because survivors can easily interconnect pallets. you should reduce pallets but make them safer. I beg you, don't just reduce pallets because it will be unplayable for survivors (especially against high ping killers)
But the best solution is to make pallets depend on killer strength. High mobility killers get more pallets, low mobility — less pallets. simple.
Hard disagree. Most, if not every pallet should be mindgameable. And then there should be MORE pallets.
This will do 2 things:
- It will make loops weaker for high skill survivors who are abusing things like, killer shack, into jungle gym, into really good filler, into main b uilding.
- It will make killers weaker when playing against low skill survivors, who don't even know what "looping" is, and just run to a pallet and drop it, because there will be more of them and in low MMR, killers are not mindgaming loops because they don't even know what a mindegame is.
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@stikyard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016435#Comment_4016435
That's true but this is an overall data point. Some Killer's are at a 60% with lower Killer's bringing the average down.
Don't get me wrong, it probably should favor Killer. If Killer mains aren't able to control most of their games in the power role, Killer's will burn out and we have no game.
Thats looking at the average, the point is when you bring in high MMR SWFs it skews massively in favor of survivor.
Imagine if there was a killer with a 70% kill rate, they'd probably nerf that killer, and they did when it was skull merchant (despite the fact that i still think her stat was becuase people gave up against her)
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016102#Comment_4016102
Re Skull Merchant, this came up last time we got stats and the devs confirmed they could differentiate the kills that happened because someone let go on hook
Honestly? I don't believe them. They probably can differentiate between someone "letting go on the hook" but what about people who just give up and run straight into the killer? Or who just stand there and do nothing? I doubt it.
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@stikyard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016341#Comment_4016341
Interesting, the high MMR actually makes sense. Still less then 50%. SO even at the highest MMR 4 man SWF still slightly favors Killer?
The devs balance for a 60% kill rate. So that's actually quite bad when compared against their target.
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@TheGoon224 said:
not saying that they need to be ignored altogether, but I feel like everyone kind of agrees that these stats only show part of the story and not the whole and I’m also bringing this up since the killer rates were recently revealed for both Japan and worldwide and the top three killers with the highest kill rates are Vecna, Freddy, and Sadako now These killers have one thing in common, and that is the fact that their powers are hard to understand for majority players. I mean it’s that or people just don’t bother trying to learn what the killer’s power does. I mean, let’s say little Timmy went to his first survivor game Freddy. He is not going to know that he should wake up before healing and to him, it just seems like Freddy came out of the blue. What about against Vecna and he gets lucky and finds either the hand or the eye in a chest and now he’s wondering OK why am I broken and injured now? And I don’t need to explain Sadako because it’s kind of expected to see her in the top kill rates, even despite how trash she is. I don’t think these killers are getting the amount of kills that they have because they’re strong. I just think they’re getting it because of a lack of information. Vecna has an strong Chase power but no pressure, Freddy‘s alarm clocks can render him powerless for a majority of the game, and Sadako for the most part only has one strategy that works but that strategy is also very easy to counter. So while I don’t think that they should ignore these stats altogether, but instead they should look at why some killers are higher than others.
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Paragraphed by chatGPT
I’m not saying these stats should be ignored altogether, but I think most people can agree that they only tell part of the story—not the whole picture. I’m bringing this up because the killer kill rates were recently revealed for both Japan and worldwide, and the top three killers with the highest kill rates are Vecna, Freddy, and Sadako.
These three killers have one thing in common: their powers are difficult for most players to understand. Either that, or many players just don’t take the time to learn how their powers actually work. For example, imagine a new player—let’s call him little Timmy—going against Freddy for the first time. He’s not going to realize that he should wake up before trying to heal, so to him, Freddy just appears out of nowhere. Or take Vecna: if Timmy happens to find the Hand or the Eye in a chest, he’s going to wonder why he’s suddenly Broken and Injured. And as for Sadako, well, it’s no surprise to see her in the top kill rates—even though she’s generally considered one of the weaker killers.
I don’t think these killers have such high kill rates because they’re particularly strong. I think it’s more about a lack of player knowledge. Vecna has a solid chase power but very little map pressure. Freddy can be rendered almost powerless by survivors managing his alarm clocks. And Sadako really only has one viable strategy, which is also easy to counter once you know how.
So, instead of taking these stats at face value, I think they should be analyzed in context. Don’t ignore them—but look deeper into why some killers rank higher than others.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015822#Comment_4015822
In the tomes there are several, "blind the killer X times" "blind a killer carrying a survivor" etc.
The tomes are effectively dead content. They are going to go away even at some point, and people aren't running lightborn because survivors are running flashlights to complete old content.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
- As it stands event focused blinds incentivizes survivors to bring items and/or blinding perks and to try and force a blind as often as possible while a singular, passive, unlimited use killer perk makes getting those points completely impossible.
- More often than not requires a fair amount of timing, skill and a limited use item (ESPECIALLY flash bangs/firecrackers).
- When survivors bring flashlights it usually involves being central to the build they are running. One perk negates part of if not the entire build. ONE PERK.
This isn't a nerf lightborn or wah the killer countered my build post, there are countless better perks/combos for killers. This is genuinely asking why bother adding that as a scoring event when one perk negates that entire section of the event? Same with blinding challenges, if lightborn had tokens, a cooldown or required an action or circumstance to activate that would be one thing but it's free, always on and removes an entire aspect to the game.
Thoughts?
There are no challenges up that require blinding the killer, what are you on about? Or do you mena literally getting bonus bloodpoints for blinding the killer?
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@BloodBird said:
Yup, there’s nothing wrong with this killer 😄
So if i show you a video of a perkless trapper winning in 2 minutes with no gens done does that also prove trapper is OP?
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@Mandy said:
They should be fixed after an update on our side this morning, however you might have to redo them the first time - but then they should be saved!
Apparently its not fixed, they reset again after the event came out.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
If only medkits would dissapear to give the killer a visual that a strong addon got used so that they can plan ahead.
The problem too is you don't know if they used the healing one, or the endurance one. I still think endurance should give an indication when it is active on a survivor. Like, make them glow white like they do when they are hit during it.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013732#Comment_4013732
So youre still under the same misconception as the devs. Pretty good job so far I guess.
That's not a misconception, its literally something the devs have stated.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013354#Comment_4013354
So all of those killrates are still better than they should be despite nurse. Or do you still want to pretend that this game should be a killer fantasy simulator?
No, they aren't. The devs balance for a 60% kill rate. But if you actually read my post you would have already seen that i mentioned that.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013354#Comment_4013354
Are you using Nightlight as per usual? Stop lmao, casual players don't upload their stats
As per usual? I rarely use stats for unofficial sources. Ghoul yes, but i don't think we have official stats from Ghoul. Want to look at literally ever single official stat BHVR has ever released about nurse? Because she's almost always the lowest killer in the game
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010887#Comment_4010887
no, it assumes it WILL BE BALANCED :)
DbD is balanced around casual survivors AND killers.
it aint going to tell only ONE half of the playerbase to "get good" while lowering the skill requirements for the other, it's not how things work here. either everyone has to get good or nobody does.
if they remove killer's macroplay that is vital for equal skill performance, then they're going to make up for that anyhow which you can see with killer design philosophy changing to more consistent and efficient chase powers with less defined or functional counterplay.
you can already see it with ghoul/krasue fundamental design - unavoidable free hit + freest catch up / mobility in the game + scamper for ghoul or unmindgameable / uncounterable head/body form powers with slow burn free tag, scamper and catch up.
the only way this whole thing works out is if they somehow manage to create an ACTUALLY viable compensation for tunnelling / slugging removal in which case the only consequence will be in DRASTICALLY increased amount of "win harder" killer matches and gen repair simulator.
Great, so if it is balanced around casual players, then where are my nurse buffs? Why are we crying about ghoul and blight and nurse needing nerfs?
- Ghoul's kill rate is 58%
- Blights kill rate is 57%
- Nurses kill rate is 50%
Devs balance for a 60% kill rate. So these 3 killers are fine. Actually nurse needs some buffs.
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If you balance DBD around casual players you MUST BY DEFINITION contend with the fact that the majority of "top tier" killers that everyone complains about that needs nerfs are actually fine, and might even need buffs.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013266#Comment_4013266
Not all 4mans are pros working in sync. This would just discourage the teams of chill friends from playing together.
That's where you'd have the 3rd queue, the rotating game mode of goofiness. Gives you everything you need to have a chill time.
Kinda flows similar to say Counterstrike.
- Ranked mode for the sweats
- Casual mode for chillin
- Custom servers/deathmatch/other goofy stuff for chillin with friends.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012950#Comment_4012950
While a Ranked mode with rewards an so on would maybe work, there will never be a fully casual mode.
Because people will always want easy matches and get into "casual" mode to tryhard.
Just saying.
The modes would likely be balanced differently. Partially its also my proposed fix for dealing with SWF vs solo queue balance disparity.
For example, lets say you have a casual mode, in this mode its solo queue/duo queue only, and the game is setup so that every match always has 4 solos, or 2 solos and 1 duo. Then you balance the game accordingly with different effects. Maybe basekit BT lasts longer, maybe survivors get basekit kindred. Maybe gens take 80 seconds instead of 90 etc.
Then in the ranked mode, its SWF only, and maybe in this mode survivors can only use a perk once accross the whole team, gens maybe take 100 seconds instead of 90, maybe killer gets basekit pain res etc.
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@EllenRipleyMain101 said:
I know there has been billions of forums talking about this but we really need to stop getting at each other's throats for things the developers add to the game that fuels the fire. I need to also mention first that I'm not a killer or survivor main, I play both having thousands of hours of experiences in both sides so I believe I have a say when talking about "us vs them" arguments.
First and foremost, pallet density, already a majority of killers are venting their frustrations (me including) and purely survivor mains are acting like their experts of stranger's experiences and saying "your argument is invalid cus it's an echo chamber" which ironically is them in an echo chamber. But at the same time I see why survivors are frustrated as they are going into matches like it's the last tournament match that'll judge them like it's a life or death situation after facing a tunneling ghoul, Krasue, blight, whatever the killer is playing to secure wins. But they ignore the fact that there are many other killers who play their mains because they like them such as myself when I main purely Springtrap and Xenomorph (occasionally Dracula since it's the spooky season) that also aren't these A or S tier gods that can eliminate teams with quad slowdown and competent knowledge of that killer.
It causes both sides to create so many forums and discussions on why their side is miserable and the other side needs to be severely kneecapped so they can secure an easy win (not everyone). We forget the other side is human and most of the time want to play this game casually or for fun and we start telling each other to straight up stop existing in this world and their families need to be put down which has happened way more often than it should be. I wish that a good majority of us can put down our machetes and chainsaws and actually come together and express why our side is miserable without denying our struggles and we bring this to BHVR so they can for once understand that we are not happy and we need something to change that can benefit both sides and bring back that feeling of horror that was once present in the game.
TL;DR the new patch has caused both sides to play miserably and we blame each other for causing the problems when it's actually developer incompetence that is causing the issues that plague this game.
Its not, the thing that has slowly been killing this game is MMR.
MMR introduced an idea of "as i win games, i start playing against people who win games more often" so you are basically punished for winning in a sense. And this is in a game where you get no reward for that MMR, there's no ranking system, no leaderboards, or anything.
So it becomes a sweat fest. Because if i don't sweat, then i get stomped on and the game is boring. Thus creating a perpetual cytcle of everyone playing their best. And that results in both sides exploiting the biggest BS they have access to right now.
What the game needs is a proper ranked mode, that has ranks and leaderboards and the like. That way the sweats get want, and the casuals get what they want.
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Omg, just played a game as survivor, this is so right. I haven't had this easy of a game as survivor in years. There's just pallets for days, and the killer can't possibly create enough dead zones because there's just pallets everywhere. Literally just run to the nearest pallet and predrop it, who cares if you "waste it" becuase there's 3 more within 12 meters of you.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012932#Comment_4012932
To be fair, we have static maps already too. But those tend to be some of the least favored.
That's less because they are static and more just because the maps themselves are horrible.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4012901#Comment_4012901
It would also contribute to the game being massively stale and same-y, but that's a different issue I guess.
Maybe, but plenty of games have static maps that have been around for decades. Counterstrike, DotA, LoL etc. You get the variety from the opponents you face and in the case of games like LoL a differences in the character. In DBDs case that would be the killer and perks.
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@BorisDDAA said:
I don't trust BHVR with this, but why not make the maps generate current pallets if it's an S tier, while everyone else gets pre patch maps?
Because nurse is the lowest kill rate killer in the game per their data. You trust BHVR to define what an "S tier" killer is?
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@Nazzzak said:
I dunno if it's just my imagination but I swear there's still deadzones popping up anyway
They do still happen, just less likely. It seems the way they "fixed" deadzones was just upping the number of pallet spawns and called it a day.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010255#Comment_4010255
Not entirely true.
While yes, Nurse and Blight are on the harder side to fully learn and master, they really don't take that long to be sufficiently good at either. The Ghouls are just ridiculosuly easy to learn for how strong they really are.Besides, there are ways to make them less powerful, like applying Blindness to Nurse when she charges a blink, or hitting Blight with a full reset to his charges whenever he breaks a pallet with his power, a similar limitation to how Ghoul functions in fact.
Ghoul only needs a slightly longer movespeed penalty when canceling power to be in a more healthy state, as they catch up way too fast after canceling. I know this because I often play Ghoul.
But at least all these killers has counterplay elements.Now, I have not mentioned the elephant in the room, which is the Krasue, but that is what truly overpowered without real counterplay looks like.
But thats just false per the data that BHVR releases. Nurse is CONSISTENTLY one of the lowest if not THE lowest in terms of kill rate. Showing that "at the average level" the average killer player is doing very badly with her.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010241#Comment_4010241
You are objectively wrong, S-tier killers literally are turning people away. ask any common horror fan their opinion, it's literallyt his game is trash
the only people still playing this game, who act like this game is a console, the only thing they can play.
Also i hard disagree with this take, S-tier killers aren't going to turn players away, because the players in question aren't going against S-tier killers that often, and if they are, they are winning just as much at the average as any other killer.
You are conflating this argument thinking that average survivors are going against S-tier killers played by super high skilled killer players. When they are not ,they are going against average killer players playing the S-tier killers, often to less success than other killers when you look at the average skill level stats.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010227#Comment_4010227
Based on what? 48% escape rate from 4 man high mmr teams = "absurdly broken"?
Considering the devs balance for a 60% kill rate, i'd say that yeah, being 8% above their target is pretty broken.
Also i believe this stat is quite old isn't it?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010255#Comment_4010255
This is so tiring. Nurse greatly underperforms at low level and overperforms at high level. Good news! We can actually rework her in a way that fixes BOTH.
- Rework her power to be less mechanically/muscle memory dependent. Now new players can play her without getting embarrassed for 4-6 hours straight.
- As part of her rework she will now have to actually obey regular game mechanics like every other killer. Now she doesn't vastly overperform at high level by ignoring every defense survivors have.
So you gonna nerf survivors then to make the other 25+ killers viable too? What nerfs would you do?
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010244#Comment_4010244
I reject the premise of your question, you do not need to choose between one or the other when both can be considered
See, you are getting it a little bit, but explain a bit more, what would you do then, nerf nurse/blight/ghoul and let the top tier survivors just roam free? What would your plan be?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010244#Comment_4010244
Average, especially in a game like DBD where top level play isn't exactly…fun for most people, we will say.
If we balance around the top, that will actually kill DBD. There's few things that COULD kill DBD, and making average players miserable is one of them.
I know your position, already had t his discussion with you multiple times.
Thus then nurse is fine and so is blight and probably ghoul (i don't know if they have officially released stats around ghoul) because in the hands of average skill players they perform averagely.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010244#Comment_4010244
I literally play dracula and Unknown and I never complain that survivors are OP
So explain to me why Nurse/blight/ghoul etc should exist? The answer is they shouldn't and if you play them, YOU are bad at the gameGreat, an anecdote, glad y ou have a good time, can you answer my question or are you going to keep dodging it? I have already explained my posiiton. I think the game should be balanced around the highest skill players. Thus we need to be looking at the data from the top say, 1000 players. And see what the stats say. Then when we can see that, i can tell you whether they should exist in their current forms or not.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010241#Comment_4010241
You are objectively wrong, S-tier killers literally are turning people away. ask any common horror fan their opinion, it's literallyt his game is trash
the only people still playing this game, who act like this game is a console, the only thing they can play.
I am not objectively wrong. There is a reason that in comp level play they put up MASSIVE restrictions for survivors and put all the killers on the best maps for them. And why tournaments have to keep putting up all these point systems and stuff to make winning or losing less about kills/escapes. Because at its core, the game is not balanced at the highest levels.
But either way. Answer my question, do you balance around high skill players, or average skill players?
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
Yeah S-tier killers are literally poison to this games health
They are the only killers capable of playing at a high level against SWFs.
And as always the question remains. Do you balance the game around average skill level players, or do you balance around the highest level players?
If you balance around the average skill players, take a look at every official stat ever released for blight and nurse, and they are always either BELOW the average, or right at the mark of what the devs are balancing for. Thus they are fine.
If you balance around the highest skill level players, then you must BY DEFINITION contend with the fact that at the highest levels there are like 4 MAYBE 5 viable killers. And it would be FAR easier to nerf survivors as a whole (or buff killers as a whole) and then nerf those 4-5 killers, then it would to buff the other 25+ killers.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008278#Comment_4008278
Nobody thinks about math when they're playing this game (and especially not during chase), so idk why you keep bringing it up in every argument.
Because this entire game is about time efficiency. its not about individual skill, its not about how well you aim, how well you chase or get chased, its about time.
Every perk, every action, every decision is about time. Survivors have lots of time, the killer has less, the killer's job is to make the survivors have less time and eliminate them before the "clock" runs out.