Reinami
Reinami
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- Username
- Reinami
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@ForTheEntity said:
When this forum shuts down next month will you be over there or on Twitter or elsewhere interacting with the community?
I hate all 3 of those platforms, so I know I won't be interacting with the DbD community except for the occasional Youtube comment.
It feels like they're telling me I am too old to play DbD. Maybe I am.
No, all social media platforms are inherently awful and evil and want my data to sell. So i actively avoid them as much as possible.
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@Mortimer said:
https://x.com/Cinnastrophe/status/2099949902394519866
https://x.com/MintSkullYT/status/2099973797264634253https://x.com/Procyondbd/status/2099915010143035477
https://x.com/snakez04/status/2099912101691052527
Even with diminishing returns, this combo is lethal and leaves survivors with zero counterplay in chase, making double-taps insanely effective, never mind the survivors' imperfect pathing in these clips—the speed boost is completely negligible compared to the weapon cooldown anyway, so the point still stands.Honorable mention: check out that Doctor clip where you literally can't unhook a survivor—pretty good job, I'd say.
That first clip shows the survivor running around wasting their entire speed boost, and the second shows something that clown can do without it. What the hell are you on about?
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@Balrog said:
Please let us know if you have any feedback about any Killer perk changes - the more specific, the better. Thank you!
Whispers could probably get buffed to 10% or maybe even a little more since it deactivates as soon as you are near survivors, and 5% amounts to like an extra 2 seconds faster traversing around which isn't really that much.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117694#Comment_4117694
Breathing and footsteps remain. Eyes are also a thing. I see this perk enough in my killer matches. It rarely gives me trouble. It might make me lose a chase here and there but so does Lucky Break. Once I know it's in play I just have to think about likely trajectory.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117683#Comment_4117683
Have you ever once seen four people running SP?
Yeah i have actually.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117615#Comment_4117615
Pop being replaced with undone or someone slotting monstrous shrine into their build doesn't change the fact that I am still facing gen focused slowdown/regression/blocking with the killer going for a tunnel out. Some of the chase perks will see play but the primary meta will not change.
The survivor changes will not change which perks survivors run because our perk slots are already filled with anti-tunnel (StB nerf, Borrowed Time nerf, no other changes), anti-slug (no changes), gen speed (stake out replaced by this is not happening, no real change). FmA will just replace windows and beginners will need to run both meaning less space for anti-tunnel (even easier tunnel on the player trying to learn). Flow State needs to hit 3 tokens before its healing speed approaches Botany, endgame unhook is the only real advantage. Empathic doesn't work on yourself so still botany. Road life? Better to just bring a medkit.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117599#Comment_4117599
Monstrous shrine will absolutely see play, pair it with pain res (untouched) and the new undone to kick gens with built up tokens when someone isn't on a scourge hook. You get an uncleansable ruin up most of the match while still being able to kick gens when necessary.
Its only up when the person is actually on the hook and you are 24 meters away from it, then it deactivates. It is not going to be good.
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@Mr_Ghostface_ said:
It's no surprise that the majority of the killer updates are buffs and the few ones survivors have are for perks I hardly ever see anyone use. And then they take one of the most popular and beginner friendly perks and absolutely destroy it. Also what the hell is the abandon/ surrender thing because they never explained how it affects points etc
Saying that the changes are for perks that nobody uses is literally the point. That's the point, to make them used more. And same with the killer ones. Nobody used monsterous shrine before, and i doubt they will now, but at least its something.
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@Balrog said:
Please let us know if you have any feedback about any Killer perk changes - the more specific, the better. Thank you!
Monstrous shrine feels very underwhelming as a gen regression perk. If you need to fully leave the hook to use it, then by the time you start a chase to push someone off a gen the survivor is likely getting saved. I think it should be changed to give either a timer of 200% gen regression after the survivor is unhooked for like 15-30 seconds or something, or it should give an instant regression when the survivor is unhooked, so like a reverse pain resonance.
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@Balrog said:
Please let us know if you have any feedback about any Survivor perk changes - the more specific, the better. Thank you!
Botany needs some kind of change as well, It is literally functionally a worse version of empathic now. Or empathic needs to be brought down slightly.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
don't have much to say about one of my favourite perks, but darn, people really don't value altruism, huh?
This perk used to basically just be about auras. The 10% heal was merely a cherry on top but nobody was using this perk so BHVR turned this into Old Botany with 30% heals. Now we are just straight up Botany at 50% speed.
Will people use Botany 2: Electric Boogaloo now? Or is this perk still doomed because of solo q crab bucket mentality?
this perks my staple in solo and swf i just find it a little crazy I thought the healing would always be lower than Botany. Not that you can really buff this perk any other way because Empathic is a perfect perk that does exactly what it says on the tin <3
I'm surprised they didn't change botany, like, this perk is literally just botany but better now right?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117475#Comment_4117475
And tell me how that changes with it having the exact same trigger.
Having it last half as long means that you don't just get elusive randomly for a long period of time. Its purpose has turned into a perk where, when a survivor gets hooked you have a short time of elusive where you can run behind the killer, quickly get into position for a quick save rather than being something that you get to use in chases or to just hide when the killer leaves the hook to chase another survivor because by the time the killer starts a new chase the effect has likely worn off.
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@cogsturning said:
The Self-Preservation nerf notes read like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/J8JWUYS7B91I/screenshot-20260915-121447.jpg
This logic is nonsensical. If the issue is killer perks, SP counter one whole aura perk, BBQ, which can and is also countered by lockers. It partially counters Friends and Alien Instinct, but not fully. With this nerf, it will still do those exact same things. A killer that's clinging that hard to aura will still go back to the hook.
If the issue is that they get into chase with someone who has no scratch marks, that person still has 15s to prerun and hide when they hear the terror radius. So nothing changes about the initial effect. Also, I'm not sure why the devs care if the killer goes back to the hook, since anti-tunnel is something they keep rejecting and nerfing.
What SP does allow for in 30s is for the user to safely get across the map for an unhook, and with the added Elusive on unhook, returning to the hook if the unhooker has SP is now countered, as there will be no scratch marks at all. So this reasoning is either completely untrue and is just to hide that they're caving to complaints, or it's not thought out at all. This perk has the opportunity to be more tactical than ever with the recent basekit changes and instead it's getting nerfed into near uselessness, really good solely for personal ratting and not for macro.
And if this goes through, it will make two for two of Yun-Jins reworked perks getting the hammer treatment. What was even the point of reworking them?
They literally explained it to you. It can lead to situations where the killer goes back to hook because if a bunch of survivors are running it where else can you go? Like anything its another perk where, by itself isn't a problem, but if 4 survivors stack it, it is suddenly a massive problem.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117181#Comment_4117181
But the killer ignores breaking the pallet? That's not great.
The knight summons a guard and forces you to leave the loop? That's not great.
The pig is crouching and using a dash attack? That's not great.
The Twins using Victor? That's not great.
The first uses Vine Attack and Undergate Attack? That's not great.
I can continue, and what these killers have in common is that most of the time they don't break a pallet.
This perk has a very flawed and oppressive design.
Not every pallet needs to be broken, looping them is sometimes the play. Every pallet break gives the survivor 20 seconds of distance, now that every map has like 20 pallets that is 400 seconds of distance available on the map, and that doesn't factor in loops, or windows, or perks, or the fact that you have to hit the survivor twice. If you break every single pallet you are going to lose.
- The the knight starts doing that you have options
- You can leave the loop, whereby you get hindered, but the knight doesn't see exactly where you go and the hinder benefit is largely gone by the time the chase resumes
- You can stay at the loop and bank on the fact that that guard will disappear quickly because the knight is nearby
- Again creating counterplay and options for both sides
- Pig is the same, when pig crouches and starts dashing, you have options now to decide which side of the pallet the pig is going to go down and go on the other side. Additionally, if the pallet is dropped pig dash is not very strong here at most loops because it won't reach, you still have the option of vaulting the pallet
- How does that work? If twins is using victor you are trying to stun him with the pallet, and if you aren't y ou are just wasting the pallet.
- Undergate? Come on now, that is so easy to dodge if you are paying attention, why are you dropping a pallet on henry undergating? That's why you keep getting hit by it bro. And vine attack? Again, henry isn't playing the same game here.
- The the knight starts doing that you have options
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117189#Comment_4117189
auras have been a "thing" ever since Nowhere to Hide and the Lethal buffs. It's why killers started to get upset at Distortion because now that auras were a "thing" they felt entitled to it 24/7
No, they weren't. I have been playing this game since 2017. They were never complained about at this level until recently when suddenly all the content creators started talking about it.
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@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117184#Comment_4117184
If you wanna shake up the meta then Pain Res and DMS should be at the top of the nerf list. Somehow I don’t think this about shaking up the meta. BHVR pulled a BHVR and only listened to those crying about how strong four STB players is in comp.
Why do you assume they are not? we already know they are changing like 50+ perks and they only released info on, what 6 of them?
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/472307/knock-out-is-a-bad-design
The judgement being released when perks exist is now holding Killers hands. Good grief. Is this where we are now?
Aura perks are the new boogyman because content creators starting crying about them.
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@Boons123 said:
"Whenever a Survivor drops a Pallet, for the next 6s, if they move 10m away from it, they gain 20% Hindered for 3/4/5s.
This ends early if the Pallet is broken.
Dev Note: We want Knock Out to really feel impactful for those cases where Survivors refuse to loop around a pallet. We've increased the range to account for some longer loops, as our intent is that this should only impact players who intentionally run away from a pallet. We've also updated the removal effect to now also end the Hindered early if the pallet gets broken, even if it's already beenapplied."
We want Knock Out to really feel impactful for those cases where Survivors refuse to loop around a pallet.Why is this even a problem? Isn't the survivors whole goal to get away from the killer so they avoid to get hit? This perk will be very miserable when facing against the Clown and the Krasue and The Lich. Because when you play against these killers, you must constantly change your position and never allow them to keep you in the same place for more than 7 consecutive seconds.
And what about The Permind Head? This killer shouldn't be looped, but rather trying to gain as much distance as possible because this killer is very strong at close range.
I'm not very excited to see Zanshin Tactics + Knock Out.
And why punish the survivors for every decision they make during the chase??Please, developers, stop holding the killers hands. The Judgment with auras perks for sniping without any skill is enough, making the whole match is a gamble with strikes you don't know when they will come.
This is an extremely healthy change because breaking the pallet makes it not work. So if you keep looping the pallet, then great, you don't have to deal with it. If the killer breaks it, great, you don't have to deal with it. This will be a nice perk to use on killers that need tons of help already like dredge for example.
Dropping a pallet and then just shift+w away is the most boring thing a survivor can do, and having a perk that punishes that is great.
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@cammoking123 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4KG95KP5W616/img-4116.png
The most noticeable things here: STB already had so many arbitrary limitations making it mid. Now it’s just straight buns. Why nerf Windows and FMA? Those are like two of the most balanced perks in the game. Windows is what taught me basic tile knowledge. It’s one of the best perks in the game for beginners. I guess BHVR is giving the middle finger to new players. Just “git gud” while being tunneled out of 90% of your games.
Its a function of usage. Windows is kinda dumb when paired with how many pallets we have these days, you just run from pallet to pallet to pallet dropping them without really any kind of counterplay. Also WOO is one of the most used survivor perks and part of a meta shakeup is doing something about that.
STB is one of the strongest perks in the game for survivors, so its nerf makes tons of sense. The deactivation requirement is interesting because it starts to lean toward the devs realizing that when 1 perk is in play, its totally fine, but its a big problem when all 4 survivors run it. I think its healthy to do it this way, but then what i'd like to see as part of it is showing what perks your teammates are running, and/or it maybe getting some kind of secondary benefit if it get deactivated by someone else, like you unhook faster or something. That way it isn't just a completely dead slot.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116659#Comment_4116659
I dont care about content creators. And i dont care about aura perks, if they serve the purpose to skyrocket the skill ceiling of killers like jason, huntress and trickster.
But on all killers that are able to damage you from afar unconditionally with the press of a button, namely the nurse, the first and the judgement, aura perks water down the behavioural analysis of your enemies, that make the killer fun to play. I mained nurse for around 2k hours and i felt that aura perks would slowly make my brain lazy whenever i equipped them.
Its almost like perks work differently at different levels of effectiveness for different killers and that the game is literally designed to be that way.
Or do you like seeing the same 4 perks every single game?
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@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4116631#Comment_4116631
The issue with aura builds is, that it waters down the skill needed to play the killer. Same with judgement. Thousands of hours should still mean something imo.
Lol. Content creators start crying about Aura builds and suddenly the entire community hates aura perks. Many such cases.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
Blindness while charging a blink/blinking. On top a built-in counter mexhanic for survivors to disrupt her blinks now and then.
This does not stop good nurses, good nurses aren't even using aura builds, all it does is widen the gap between good nurses and not good nurses even more. She needs a complete and total rework.
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@cogsturning said:
I think the answer to this question depends on what you mean by tunneling. If someone starts tunneling someone when 3 or 4 gens are done and everyone is still alive with few hook states, that's generally an understandable and unsurprising desperation move. They're doing it because they feel like they're in a corner. Loading in intending to identify a weak link and immediately shove them out is completely different and is driven by a desire to win at all costs, regardless of how anyone feels about it.
This is also a fair point, the community itself can't even agree on what the term "tunneling" means often times. For example, i once had a game where i was told i was a "tunneling scrublord" while playing a sadako and using her mori to kill someone that i literally never hooked or even downed once until they got 7 stacks because they weren't doing tape runs.
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@CarbonaraCharlie said:
My fellow killer mains, please help me by letting me know your thoughts here.
When I play killer I try to leave all 4 survivors alive until everyone has been hooked at least once. I can understand that it doesn’t feel good to lose and tunneling makes it easier to put pressure on survivors but what I’m trying to understand is what is actually making killers to feel pressured to do this on a regular basis.
I’ve been playing more survivor lately because the blood point bonus is over there most of the time and I’m usually straight on a gen so I tend to be the first survivor found. 6 out of 10 games I get tunneled out. I know this is a skill issue on my part (I’m not a great survivor lol).I guess to sum it up, what types of changes would make you feel more comfortable to spread pressure rather than focus a survivor out. (P.S. I don’t blame people for tunneling and it’s okay to play how you want to. I just want to see if there can be a world where tunneling isn’t a thing)
Player removal is the best gen defense. But basically think of it this way.
- You just hooked a survivor
- You start walking away to look for your next survivor to chase
- The survivor you start chasing runs to killer shack
- The 1st survivor gets unhooked.
Now at that point, what makes more sense. Should you go after the person who is starting their chase at one of the strongest structures in the game? Or should you go after the person you know is injured, probably getting healed, and on top of that where you likely know 2 survivors are.
The other aspect is if you don't tunnel survivors tend to get complacent and start immediately healing right under hook saving them a ton of time and pressure.
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115810#Comment_4115810
nurse has 2.53% pick rate and 46.92 kill rate which is below average
So nurse needs buffs then?
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115749#Comment_4115749
Because this killer can bring aura and penetrate walls? Did you never get hit without los? Will you get hit by huntress with no los? Like why even mention huntress
Nurse exists.
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115741#Comment_4115741
Ok first based on your saying I conclude you are saying the killer can aim very precisely for example he aims left it will go left, wont go anywhere else. Then it sounds very busted to me to force a 5050 every 5 seconds. Even dont need to enter zealous.
And sorry people can't be that precise. even if you can control it very well there is still a huge factor of luck and I dont think it's very healthy
Its not a 50/50, you still have other ways of dealing with it. If you are in a completely open field with no LoS blockers? Yeah its a 50/50, but how often is that happening? And how would that be any different than going against say, a huntress?
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115730#Comment_4115730
Makes a lot of sense. I guess no one will get hit ever.
That's not what that means. The point is that now that the killer can actually aim it there is a skill component on both sides, its a game of: "is he gonna aim it directly at me or curve it?" "is he gonna curve left or curve right?" "If i go left, making him think i'm going left, and he curves it left, then i quickly go right, then i can dodge it, but if he knows i'm going to do that, then that means then he'll be able to aim it at me.
Similar to nurse its a mindgame of "do they double back?" "Do they keep running?" etc.
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@lovlor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115725#Comment_4115725
Please teach me the specific counterplay to reliably dodge a beam. Or is the counterplay you mention hoping the killer's skill is bad and they can't curve?
Avoiding the giant "######### you" laser that comes from the sky as the killer is charging it?
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@ninjabsbx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115691#Comment_4115691
the curve was already in a perfect spot, it did not need a second buff
Console players exist btw, and are the largest population of players.
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@OrionQc24 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112082#Comment_4112082
I was just outside the gate, they were inside. Is that more than 10m ? The only time I had it trigger is by a Meg purposely t-bagging and me inches away from her face.
For context, load up a game and stand in a spot you can mark or something. do a lunge, as soon as the lunge ends, do another lunge. That is 12.42 meters. 10 meters is very short range.
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@esoteric0108 said:
as we know endurance and haste after unhook was reduced from 15s→10s and elusive was added for 10s
The problem? Now its actually EASIER to tunnel , heres why:
Since the status effects are all in sync at 10s, now the killer literally has an audio AND visual cue of exactly when the endurance runs out. If im playing lets say kaneki and after i hear the unhook notification, io go back to the hook, all i have to do is follow the unhooked person and the moment i see scratch marks or hear them start groaning again i instantly know its worn off and can m1.
Originally if a killer followed you off hook, theyd either have to count the 15s and hope they timed it right or they might hit too early, now that will never happen. the killer will always know when to m1
TL;DR The existence of elusive being in sync with endurance weakens the endurance more than intended due to the fact it acts as a prebuilt ingame timer to when its safe to hit off hook. i think elusive should be 12.5 or 15s to counter this. @BHVR
While that is true, any killer who is going to tunnel you already can count to 10 to make sure.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111530#Comment_4111530
You said it was a "type of change".
Bugs are change
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
See this one I sort of get, as Corrupt does specifically say "when you down a survivor", and someone downing themselves with Plot Twist isn't you specifically downing them, but I wish they'd have fixed this sooner. It's not like people were on the PTB testing if this worked and it's not like BHVR wouldn't have known about it. Alternatively, keep the interaction and change the wording on Corrupt to be whenever any survivor is downed by any means. It's a fun thing that imo should've been kept around.
Same with the Exe change to allow POTD to go uphill - genuinely one of the biggest buffs I could've ever asked for, hidden as a bugfix, despite the verticality part of Exe's kit being the same since the 4.0.0 PTB in May of 2020. Why did it take you 6 years and 3 months to fix this bug?
I think i saw someone mention that this along with say, the pyramid head change are similar. If you look at the hints section on pyramid head, it specifically states that his power doesn't go up hills and to "use that to your advantage" when getting hints as a survivor.
We have likely reached the point now where old devs have left and new devs now don't know what is a feature and what is a bug at times.
For example here is the hint page of pyramid head:
The implication there being that it literally was never a bug and was an intended feature of the power.
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@Vampwire said:
So I did some play while you wait, got a match against Judgement first go. I was happy to not have to play 10 games just for one match against the new killer. But, let me tell you how that went. The person I was playing against definitely knew how to use the killer. My less skilled teammates (for example, did not understand that holding the run button made you unable to get healed), were dropping like flies. And as for the actual chase, it was still difficult even as an experienced player, but not so much that it was unfair. I think Judgement when she chases is actually pretty fun. But, then we got to the 3 gen…
That is the main issue.
Because suddenly, there were no more chases. Not any that she wouldn't immediately down you in at least, you gave her more than a 30 second chase and it was back to the strat. Just keep sniping gens over and over with the beam. Now that issue isn't so much "the beam is op". At a distance you have a decent chance to dodge it. More so, you're not gonna dodge EVERY beam all the time. You're gonna misposition or react too late at least once or twice over the span of like 10 beams.
This alone killed any enjoyment I initially had of the killer. Because about 5 minutes of it were actual chases, the other 15 were just "Okay, pressure the gen when she leaves. Okay now dodge this beam. Okay she's coming back? Run a little so she has to commit." I had gotten the same gen about 80 percent of the way like 3 times. Granted my team could've pressured gens better, but most survivor players are just bad and that's a fact of life. Majority of solo que games are gonna and always will be that way.
Mainly I want Judgement to be rewarded for actually sticking to chases instead of just being Artist but better. She's a cool character. Her power is unique, and playing against her is like playing against Nurse just without all the ping and bs. Because another "lose the game, win the 3 gen" killer is the last thing we need rn.
The killer is a 110 killer. By design 110 killers can't really "chase" the same way, and ANY killer if a chase is lasting more than even 20 seconds you are playing it wrong and should drop chase.
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@bnork said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111404#Comment_4111404
this is a nice response but can you elaborate? why could this not have applied to every other killer except wesker?
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111207#Comment_4111207
Thats…..not how software engineering works.
I know my other comment wasn't directed at you, but it is relevant. Because THAT is how software engineering works.
Its likely a systemic change and not something tied to specific killers, thus not possible to ship with only some killers.
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@dangersmymidd1ename said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111399#Comment_4111399
It's clearly a bug, and has been reported.
I didn't say it wasn't a bug, i was simply responding to the OP saying "its fine"
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@bestgirlsusie said:
Since this new patch skill checks happen like 300% more which is fine accept the thing where they pop when you let go is back and happens like every time.
I don't think it is actually fine TBH. It is very harmful for newer players who already have a hard time with skill checks while massively buffing high level survivors who just hit great skill check after great skill check anyway.
Very definition of the type of change that hurts lower skill survivors and buffs higher skill survivors.
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@Dreigonix said:
It is not your job to handhold survivors who are not paying attention to their games. Twitch chat is not a fifth survivor perk. I shouldn't have to explain this. You do not do anything like this to handhold killers who aren't paying attention, nor should you. Survivors do not need advance warning for every single little thing in the game. You might as well flash a big warning sign on the screen when Myers or Ghostface is stalking a survivor.
Judgement's power is already one of the hardest powers to use in the game, and you decided to make it worse. This is especially insulting because this was the community-created killer, and you shot her in the head at the finish line to appease survivors who wanted the ability to take their eyes off the game without getting punished.
Revert it now.
Honestly yeah, it feels so much clunkier than on PTB for some reason. I thing the 0.3 seconds doesn't even function its like it doesn't move at all. They should fix totem defense as a whole through basekit systems rather than nerfing a killer based on a single build. Survivors are just dodging the hit super easily now even when aiming directly at them, and then they nerfed the long range capabilities too so it doesn't work at medium range anymore because they can dodge, it doesn't work at long range cuz they see it a mile away, and it doesn't work at close range because the power just doesn't, so it just doesn't work.
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@OrionQc24 said:
So as someone who played this game a LOOOONG time I remember that Vigil was at 40% and that's when it was basically never used, then they buffed it to the ridiculous 66% it was until now. I understand 66% is too much but I feeel 40% is perfect and if anything actually need to be nerfed they could nerfed its duration for others (5s after leaving range instead of 15s) or even remove it entirely preventing SWF to milk it. I just think 30% is extremely low and if it wasn't used at 40% then I doubt it'll be at 30% in a much faster pace environment than 2017.
I don't understand why the perk can't be repurposed to be mostly solo. I'm saying that bc Quentin was one of my first survivor and I feel it's a shame the perk has to be killed bc you cannot think of anything else to balance it. Now that we have other perks reducing exhaustion you could even remove it entirely from the list of debuff it helps regen faster, vigil has always been more about negating broken and exposed.Vigil was at 30% BTW so its still higher.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111214#Comment_4111214
True, but what I'm getting off of forums is majority of the playerbase prefers to stick to their one side.
The forums are a tiny tiny minority of players, like <0.00001% of them.
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@pidgeon said:
My guess is people won't queue if they see 5+ minute queue times, its a bit stupid though as now I don't know whether or not I have time to do a chore while I wait.
Isn't that kind of good though? If the queue shows 5+ minutes, then we don't WANT people playing that side we want them on the other side to balance it out.
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@pidgeon said:
I would assume its harder to implement into the live game rather than test servers. It could possibly be introduced in the mid season patch?
Thats…..not how software engineering works.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110968#Comment_4110968
okay and I think its pretty easy to argue that a single killer totally negating an entire avenue of survivor gameplay just because that's their power is WAY more unhealthy than Vigil providing a faster recovery against negative status effects. I think you can argue that One survivor being sacrificed before the other three survivors get hooked is WAY more unhealthy than Vigil, its a problem of picking out the wrong things to balance. Vigil, as has been mentioned in this thread, is already below the 40% winrate target for escape rate as a perk and therefore is not unreasonably powerful. it can be measured this way because it is a perk that works as a passive and not an active, you have to look at perks like DH and DS differently because they provide an active skill component and might be better than direct winrate actually reports and people who are dying with those might just be losing more because they can't use them well. Vigil is a status cleanser and its fine… or was fine… now its pretty bad.
You must not know me very well.
I think tunneling is a horrible thing for the game and needs to go, but i just disagree with the methods the devs have tried to deal with it. So bringing that up isn't gonna be a "gotcha" for me.
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@SpyUA said:
Unhooking instantly is the only reason hard tunneling at 5 gens is possible, there's plenty of time, 70 second person hook stage (so it's best to unhoook after at least 30-50 seconds) and the chase time at least of 30 seconds (with endurance it's should last 30 seconds by just holding W, this is thinking of low A tier killers and B tier killers and even with strong A tier the survivor should be able to last at least 20 seconds) twice as there's 2 hook stages, at least 2 gens should be done by that time and it's without considering anti-tunnel perks.
Very true, its also why kindred is the best solo queue perk. Everyone should run it
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Trying to introduce a friend to dbd. And even running as a 4 man swf with 3 experienced players every game we played tonight was a hatch game, because one weak link survivor kills a team stone dead.
So anyone have ideas to mitigate this? After 10 years and an insane glut of killer and perk mechanics to learn, I'm honestly surprised that the game retains any new players whatsoever at this point.
I know we have a tutorial overhaul coming. But we could do with a way to make the game less punishing for new players. My friend has literally been hard tunneled in every game they've played once the killer has realised they suck at chase. Aside from one where we got them to hide from the outset and escape through a hatch offering in main.
The game is so anti new player and that is very unhealthy for a game.
Edit:brainwave, kate denson should be a free character, window of opportunity is without doubt the best perk for new players. Shouldn't be pay walled.
You mention "after 10 years" and have a ton of posts, so i suspect that you are very much NOT a new player yourself, i'm assuming in the thousands of hours count? If so then playing with you is probably the worst thing for your friend, as it won't look at their skill level at all when matching with other players, it will look at yours instead. It would be better for them to play alone (or maybe for you to play with them on a fresh account?) rather than try and play with you otherwise they will get matched with people with thousands of hours and will just have a very bad time.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110945#Comment_4110945
That wasn't my point, though, It was yours. I was just responding to your point that the nerf might bring back clown and freddy mains all of the sudden, which It will not.
My personal stance is just because something counters one killer more than the next doesn't make it OP. that's why I have repeatedly brought the Plague into the discussion, because her power destroys healing in its entirety, totally invalidates dozens of perks and builds, do you think that is OP? I Don't, because the Plague is a lower tier killer who doesn't get played much anyway. but saying that Vigil needs to be gutted because it is disproportionately affecting Freddy and Clown is the exact same thing as saying that the Plague should be gutted because she counters healing. to reiterate yet again: This is a double standard.Its not necessarily OP just because of that, but it is problematic. Things can be inherently unhealthy for the game while not actually being overpowered. In fact things can be unhealthy for the game and still be completely underpowered.
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110878#Comment_4110878
I think the problem is that TOTH makes totems way too strong with certain characters but on the other hand without it they are way too week, that's why its a balance hell.
Those perks do help but it doesn't matter when you're screaming half way through cleansing a totem in TOTH and it resets or you have to spend a considerable amount of time contesting totems instead of advancing the game from the survivor perspective depending on totem RNG and how the killer is defending them, TOTH is bad because the singular perk is affecting how viable all hexes are in general. it could be entirely redone to be something totally else and totems just be longer to cleanse across the board with either slow regression or no regression on them.
also, on the flipside if someone is running a totem build and you don't have TOTH you wasted a perk slot because its gone in 10 seconds sometimes, its just unhealthy from both sidesThat's just the problem with totems in general. The problem is that they are designed to be "high risk high reward" but they have been nerfed constantly so the "reward" isn't really there unless you can defend them long enough. Leading to situations where the only way they are good is if you play a killer who is able to defend them (I.E. the ones you are talking about). Lets look at ruin for example.
Ruin used to be 200%, then it got nerfed to 100% for a long time, then it became 150%. 150% is on the base regression of 0.25 charges per second. Meaning that with ruin, it regresses at a rate of 0.375 charges per second. Now lets look at a perk like say, pain resonance. Pain resonance is relatively easy to get value out of for 80% gen regression. In order for ruin to regress that same amount, it would need to be alive for 192 seconds. Realistically you can only chase 1 survivor at a time, so at most maybe you get 2 gens regressing sometimes with usually it being 1 or 2 at a time at most. So lets say, half the time you regress 2, and the rest of the time you can only regress 1. So lets say it has to be up for 144 seconds then, in order to get value.
Now you should factor in the time it takes to find and cleanse ruin as time the survivor is not on the generator. That can easily eat up probably about 30 seconds of time plus another 14 to cleanse it. So now you are looking at needing it to be up for lets say 100 seconds or so.
100 seconds is a LONG time for a hex to be up in the current DBD. And that is what you need on average. Yeah, some games it might last longer, some games survivors spawn on top of it and it gets cleansed before you can physically walk to the other end of the map to defend it.
The problem is where is the reward that makes it worth it? Ruin should give MORE value than any other gen defense perk, just by its nature of being able to be permanently removed from the game. The only hex perk that is actually "strong" is devour hope, and that is the only one that really retains the design of "high risk high reward" because the reward is often game ending, but again, high risk.
Totems either:
- Need to be so powerful that not cleansing them means the survivors likely lose the game
- Then remove/rework things like undying/thrill etc to make defending them harder
- Need to be much harder to cleanse and remove so that they are less risky.
However, i don't think the solution is making them all strong enough to end the game on their own. That would be extremely punishing to newer players who probably barely even know what is going on, and just creates a huge skill gap issue where totems become really good against newer players, while still relatively weak against higher level players who probably memorized totem spawns anyway.
Personally my suggestion for totems has been that all of them should work like thrill in that all totems become lit when a hex is in play and the strength of the perk is dependent on how many totems are up. So for example ruin might be something like:
- 5 Totems: 200%
- 4 totems: 160%
- 3 totems: 120%
- 2 totems: 80%
- 1 totem: 40%
For example. Then i would probably give them all an aura reading affect similar to pentimento where their aura is shown at say 8 meters away, making it so that way its less about getting lucky and finding that specific totem and more about cleansing the totems to progressively weaken the perk. It leads to a scenario where, maybe after 2-3 cleanses the perk is weak enough that you don't even bother with the rest.
It also solves the problem of survivors getting lucky and just spawning on top of it rendering your perk entirely useless, while also dealing with the problem of the survivors getting super unlucky and cleanse 4 totems but just cant find that last one (ever been in that situation?)
This would obviously come with a rework to all of the hex perks including things like thrill and undying and pentimento etc. But i think it could be a healthy change for the game by making hex perks more like a secondary objective that, when ignored, are going to be really impactful to the game, but when cleansed properly, render them much weaker (while also creating a secondary objective that is greatly needed)
- Need to be so powerful that not cleansing them means the survivors likely lose the game
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110907#Comment_4110907
no, we don't. there aren't many Clown and Freddy mains because people like other killers more. Freddy is based off of the far less popular remake of Nightmare on Elm Street and the Clown is a low draw non IP Killer, Ghostface sucks too but I see him a fair bit because people like scream, his entire kit is countered by exhaustion perks which are way more common in different forms and more relevant than Vigil.
and for the people who play to be as optimal and win as brutally as possible they are playing killers with more aggressive powers than Freddy or the Clown, they will not be played more all of the sudden because Vigil was nerfed. if you look at the killer options you have stuff like "Teleports through terrain with a low cooldown", "Almost Constant Exposed + Long Lunge + Pallet Break", "Throws Spears, can move quickly while obscuring vision, blocks vaults, has an execute built into his kit", and then "Fat Bottle Guy" or "Knock off Freddy Krueger" that disparity isnt changing with the vigil nerf.So just because they aren't played that often its ok if there is a perk that counters them? How does that make sense?
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@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110732#Comment_4110732
I'm sure all the non-existent Freddy and Clown mains are celebrating the Vigil nerf. Really why would you balance something around two of the least used killers in the game.
Moving the goal posts again. Ever think that perhaps the reason there are so few is because of this perk?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110684#Comment_4110684
'Completely' counter? Vigil? Really?
A single perk slot that makes the killer's power go from gaining 3.6 seconds of distance every time they land it to 1.2 seconds of distance? Yeah i'd basically call that nearly a complete counter.
That's not to mention clown who is actually hurt by it even more.
Have you tried playing as freddy or clown against someone with vigil?
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110032#Comment_4110032
Then by this logic a single killer shouldn't counter an entire perk and item build, but they do. The Killer IS Stronger, and there are several killers who could be tweaked and made better for sure but that should lie in their power and not the balance of perks. Perks for the killer are foundationally different than perks for the survivor.
Survivors are all reskins of the same individual with the same abilities only differentiated by perks. Killers are entirely their own and so killer perks should be arranged to compliment an already existing power, not make or break the game. on the other hand Survivors without perks are confined to items to direct different gameplay styles and there are killers and killer builds that entirely curb stomp entire survivor builds before they even load into a match.
The Double Standard I am pointing out is that it is okay for there to be perks that are better against some killers than others, just like there are some killers that counter altruism and have better chase potential than others. the Nerf on Vigil is a standout problem because it is setting a bad precedent going forward where perks must be nerfed based on how they effect all killers across the board and that is a literally impossible standard when killers arent even balanced amongst themselves. its impossible to balance DBD to this extent and a waste of time, the only result that (already has) and will come from this is people generally being more upset about the state of the game. Vigil is Worse but a Good Nurse can still throttle a group of decent survivors, Sprint Burst is worse but Blight can still get 1000+ winstreaks, Deadhard is worse but Its still possible to tunnel someone at 5 gens and it not be considered griefing (not to open the debate over tunneling here, just to mention people hate it)No, thats not the case. The game is literally a 1v4, by DEFINITION AND DESIGN the one should be stronger than the 4 when looked at individually. The killer SHOULD be stronger in the 1v1. If an entire team of survivors are all taking altrustic perks and get countered by a plague, that is on them for all playing the exact same build. It is a team game for the survivors, they need to coordinate as a team to win.