Thrill of the hunt is fundamentally unhealthy
By Default totems take 14 seconds to cleanse/bless (Dull) and 28 seconds to bless (Hex)- This causes issues where sometimes you will load into the match as killer and you're totem will be gone before you can get too it.
With TOTH active, it takes 35s/70s. The whole intention of TOTH is its a perk that allows your hexes to live just that little bit longer but that intention is never met because the ONLY people that use TOTE are killers that can cheese easy screams making it near impossible to cleanse if you are not a 4 stack with comms.
How can we fix both the killer issue of hexes going to quick and the survivor issue of versing extremely cheesy scream hex builds?
Simple. Make Totems take longer to cleanse basekit BUT let the progress save.
This would allow Totems to act more like the secondary objective they're supposed to be AND fix the issue of sometimes near uncounterable (depending on map/layout/build) totem builds by certain killers (Looking at you twins, Jason, Judgement, Alien)
Not to mention, when @BHVR are constantly making addons like this, it just makes thrill THAT much more oppressive.
TL;DR Screams either need to not interrupt totems (because it causes specific bs builds) and totems need to take longer to compensate. thankyall for listening to my ted talk
Comments
Agreed. Totem progress should decay gradually over time, not instantly.
BHVR should add a survivor perk to the game that makes finding and cleansing totems faster for people who hate totem builds.
Like if there are not enough of them already. :D So nice irony. As long as survivors are happy…
Considering I and at least one other member on the forums also made a similar post in the last couple days (probably because of the extremely lukewarm Thrill nerf in the upcoming patch) it seems like a lot of the community is on the same page. Cleansing should be made a bit longer, and progress should regress like generators (so that screams don't cancel totem progress, but killers can still push survivors off a hex being cleansed in front of them while also giving teammates a chance to get back on and retain some progress)
Bhvr literally said they are going to rework TOTH
I think the only way to prevent the Totem from being disabled 30 seconds into the match—and to eliminate the ability to permanently block its destruction by making Survivors scream or disrupting them in some way during the match—is through a rework or by adding some kind of block to the Totem system using the base kit that the devs love so much.
Why must survivors let go of what they're doing to throw their hands in the air upon screaming? It's unnecessary and disruptive.
Why must the killer drop the survivor when they are blinded while they have already picked up the survivor? It's unnecessary and disruptive.
It's called counterforce, small game, detective's hunch, extrasensory perception. Take your pick, there's literally enough perks to run a full totem hate build so you have no excuse.
I... I think the post was made in jest... Or at least I hope so
Because the entity decreed it's funny seeing a steeve flap their arms when playing the steevegul build
I think the problem is that TOTH makes totems way too strong with certain characters but on the other hand without it they are way too week, that's why its a balance hell.
Those perks do help but it doesn't matter when you're screaming half way through cleansing a totem in TOTH and it resets or you have to spend a considerable amount of time contesting totems instead of advancing the game from the survivor perspective depending on totem RNG and how the killer is defending them, TOTH is bad because the singular perk is affecting how viable all hexes are in general. it could be entirely redone to be something totally else and totems just be longer to cleanse across the board with either slow regression or no regression on them.
also, on the flipside if someone is running a totem build and you don't have TOTH you wasted a perk slot because its gone in 10 seconds sometimes, its just unhealthy from both sides
TOTH is getting completely reworked so this isn't going to matter in a month and a half.
yeah I think the totem rework serves everyone better as opposed to another perk rework.
But there's nothing wrong with totems themselves. We still have Undying and Pentimento so they'll still be strong but easier to counter with TOTH gone especially if somebody brings counterforce.
That's just the problem with totems in general. The problem is that they are designed to be "high risk high reward" but they have been nerfed constantly so the "reward" isn't really there unless you can defend them long enough. Leading to situations where the only way they are good is if you play a killer who is able to defend them (I.E. the ones you are talking about). Lets look at ruin for example.
Ruin used to be 200%, then it got nerfed to 100% for a long time, then it became 150%. 150% is on the base regression of 0.25 charges per second. Meaning that with ruin, it regresses at a rate of 0.375 charges per second. Now lets look at a perk like say, pain resonance. Pain resonance is relatively easy to get value out of for 80% gen regression. In order for ruin to regress that same amount, it would need to be alive for 192 seconds. Realistically you can only chase 1 survivor at a time, so at most maybe you get 2 gens regressing sometimes with usually it being 1 or 2 at a time at most. So lets say, half the time you regress 2, and the rest of the time you can only regress 1. So lets say it has to be up for 144 seconds then, in order to get value.
Now you should factor in the time it takes to find and cleanse ruin as time the survivor is not on the generator. That can easily eat up probably about 30 seconds of time plus another 14 to cleanse it. So now you are looking at needing it to be up for lets say 100 seconds or so.
100 seconds is a LONG time for a hex to be up in the current DBD. And that is what you need on average. Yeah, some games it might last longer, some games survivors spawn on top of it and it gets cleansed before you can physically walk to the other end of the map to defend it.
The problem is where is the reward that makes it worth it? Ruin should give MORE value than any other gen defense perk, just by its nature of being able to be permanently removed from the game. The only hex perk that is actually "strong" is devour hope, and that is the only one that really retains the design of "high risk high reward" because the reward is often game ending, but again, high risk.
Totems either:
However, i don't think the solution is making them all strong enough to end the game on their own. That would be extremely punishing to newer players who probably barely even know what is going on, and just creates a huge skill gap issue where totems become really good against newer players, while still relatively weak against higher level players who probably memorized totem spawns anyway.
Personally my suggestion for totems has been that all of them should work like thrill in that all totems become lit when a hex is in play and the strength of the perk is dependent on how many totems are up. So for example ruin might be something like:
For example. Then i would probably give them all an aura reading affect similar to pentimento where their aura is shown at say 8 meters away, making it so that way its less about getting lucky and finding that specific totem and more about cleansing the totems to progressively weaken the perk. It leads to a scenario where, maybe after 2-3 cleanses the perk is weak enough that you don't even bother with the rest.
It also solves the problem of survivors getting lucky and just spawning on top of it rendering your perk entirely useless, while also dealing with the problem of the survivors getting super unlucky and cleanse 4 totems but just cant find that last one (ever been in that situation?)
This would obviously come with a rework to all of the hex perks including things like thrill and undying and pentimento etc. But i think it could be a healthy change for the game by making hex perks more like a secondary objective that, when ignored, are going to be really impactful to the game, but when cleansed properly, render them much weaker (while also creating a secondary objective that is greatly needed)
Been thinking about this a lot lately and I'm starting to agree. I don't think hexes really feel that great right now standalone/without totem defense perks but there have always been certain builds that make them hard to deal with and the recent Thrill meta has really highlighted that, there's some other less common stuff too like Harpoon Gun or Fatty Meat but that's not nearly as popular. I think ideally there would still be some form of regression on them (ie. totem progress wouldn't be permanently saved) but it shouldn't lose all progress instantly. But to justify doing that I think you'd have to make cleansing take longer, and at that point Thrill of the Hunt should probably just get a rework, which based on the last community stream sounds like might be happening anyways.
I think they could also explore the idea of making some older hex perks have delayed activation much like some of the newer ones do - for example what was done in the most recent Crowd Control buff where it no longer ignites a totem until a window is blocked, might not work for all of them but at least some
That's a false equivalence. A flashlight rescue requires precise timing to blind and stun The Killer. The brief stun is what results in the Survivor being dropped. Screaming Perks and Add-ons provide location info and usually aura reading across the map. It doesn't necessarily make sense for tracking to automatically double as an action interrupt that knocks Survivors off whatever they're doing, in some cases across the map and repeatedly.
I understand the pallet stun, it's a stun, but a flashlight save is a blind, you don't get stunned if you were blinded while breaking a pallet, also the timing is very easy to do with flashlights. Blinding the killer is supposed to make that player not see anything for a few seconds so the survivor can hide in that time, not stun the killer. It doesn't necessarily make sense for distraction to automatically double as a stun, that can make killers drop the survivor, something like this shouldn't make the killer stop holding the survivor and it doesn't make sense that a killer with literal sunglasses gets blinded (wesker) or killers with no eyes (Demogorgon or Xenomorph). Tell me why at least one reason a killer like trapper (he is quite strong) can't continue holding the survivor when blinded?
There's basically nothing that makes in this game, I guess screaming is an issue but it's just because of hex face the darkness imo (the only screaming thing that needs to get nerfed) and it's supposed to give the killer info but as well let the survivor know that the killer got info on them (killers that have screaming basekit in the power are weak like doctor), also the hands into the air is basically like an accessibility feature for people who are deaf and seeing the hands is more clear than just survivor moving their head.
Dude counterforce is so good
I agree, I love running counterforce and gobbling up all the totems. It even counters that annoying screaming hex