Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4038802#Comment_4038802
You never know for sure.
While that is true, you have to base it on evidence. And we already have evidence for 2 other situations of this happening, and in both cases, people who bought the content before it was removed, kept everything that was exclusive to the people who bought the content, and anything that was free (I.E. the map) was removed from the game.
So it really doesn't make sense that it would be removed based on past evidence. That does not mean its impossible of course, we don't know the details of the license, but it certainly seems unlikely.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
A big statement I always see is that BHVR and dbd would get better and lock in more if there was competition in the genre
Yet when we actually get the competition you guys instantly say the game will die within a year. Yet you guys asked for this and you won’t go fund and support the competition to get BHVR to care again?
Then when that game inevitably dies off you guys complain again that we need competition it’s like a endless cycle
Even if there was a exact copy of dbd beat for beat gameplay no one would play it and say “it will die within a year”
I’m not saying to not have suspicions cause of how gun handled leatherface. But it’s kinda fickle how you guys ask for competition yet won’t go support it?
In general these other games tend to fail because they focus on a single IP. And the company has a history of just abandoning their games early on while leaving them in a horrible state.
What we need is a game LIKE VHS or that carnival one to come out, change the formula, and succeed based on the game being good by developers who show that they care, and listen to feedback and are in it for the long haul.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
it should be two uses and the skill check should be removed. With it becoming a general perk it will be a strong anti tunnel perk.
I'll let you have that on the condition that a survivor with DS active like that can't drop pallets or flashlight save.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I saw this on Twitter last night and thought it was a joke but I logged in last night and it's real. Is this intentional?
It's unfortunate enough the incentives are usually on the wrong role at night and during bone chill but now it's a new minimum of 1.10 instead of 1.25?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GG8PTHCLKXPR/1000036468.jpg
The incentives are automatic, so they can't be on "the wrong role" but the scaling might have always had this but maybe it hasn't been bad enough lately?
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@Havi said:
Kindred or Bond? I like both of them but don't feel comfortable using both together. I feel like I'm wasting one slot.
Both,
My main solo queue build is:
Kindred + Bond + Deja Vu + Open Handed.
You'd be surprised how powerful bond can be especially with open handed making it have a 48 meter range, which lets it cover a solid half of a map if you aren't in the corner (maps are usually 100x100 squarish shape).
Kindred is an obvious choice as well so your teammates know what is going on when you are hooked (although with the recent change to the camp bar being shown, it might be less useful and i may consider swapping it)
Deja vu is solid for making sure you don't 3 gen yourselves, just make sure you always work a gen in red and preferably the middle gen.
And lastly open handed benefits the whole team, lots of people for example run WOO, so it'll buff those types of perks for them.
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@Lit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037161#Comment_4037161
Not really… the title of my post is exactly that…. a title which essentially is rhetorical and really my thoughts on it.
And didn't even remotely ask the 2nd question in any way. I stated the fact that I believe BHVR don't care about changing it.
Thanks for adding such amazing value to the discussion.
So you asked a question. I answered it, but you didn't like my answer, so i'm the bad guy?
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@Lit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036909#Comment_4036909
No to what?
I didn't ask a yes or no question so not sure why you'd answer with it, and if you don't want to participate that's fine.
But you have zero value in this discussion.
I asked for what the DBD community think and I'd like it to be impartial if possible. Most people can, but some can't rationalise their thoughts so makes this quite hard to judge changes.I'm 5k hours in this game, so I feel like I have quite a good grasp.
I think the rest of Ghouls abilities are fine but the Cooldown of coming out of power is slightly too short. If its currently 1seconds it needs to be 1.8/2 seconds. That's the only thing I think needs to change.
I feel like if you're a killer, and you use a power and mess up, you're not rewarded for it. Using what is an attack power to be right up to a survivor should not be rewarded.
If I could change that, and one other thing, it would be be nice to have some sort of audable notification when they're in power, (slightly like hound master's dog) but besides that I don't think much else needs to change.
It seems there's a mixture of answers so it's quite interesting to read the rest of the comments.You did though, you asked several:
- Ghoul's Cooldown is ridiculous?
- if BHVR should do something about it?
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@random1543 said:
The only time I see this perk is on killers that are hard tunneling off the bat.
I does have a counter but not much of one considering its hard for someone that is being tunneled to go to another survivor to be healed, even more so in solo q as it cant be called out to other team mates
Outside of a complete rework of the effects of perk I think one of the following in bold would work as it would allow someone being hard tunneled the potential of healing after there second hook in row and would encourage spreading hooks.
- Whenever a Survivor performs an Unhook action on a survivor that has not been consecutively hooked, they suffer from the following effect for 30 Seconds
This change would also mainly help solo q, as a coordinated SWF can just have two people at hook ready as they can call out perk. where as in soloq only the unhooker and saved person knows it is in play.That doesn't make any sense. If you want to tunnel effectively you don't want to hinder your target, you want to hinder the others or do something else. For example, endgame build with remember me and noed where you hard tunnel the obsession. Or things like deadlike and DMS which slow down the gens while you are tunneling.
Its like pig traps, you don't tunnel the person with the trap, because they are going to waste time getting the trap off, you want to go after other people while the trap is the slowdown.
Leverage is decent when paired with stuff like gift of pain that double dips into the healing reduction, but not as a tunneling perk. 30% less healing isn't going to make or break it if you are already running back t othe hook.
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@Lit said:
What does the community think of Ghoul's cooldown after their lunge?
The fact that ghoul can use their power and come out of it and use an M1 almost immediately seems strong to me and I feel it needs to be addressed.
It really feels that BHVR Dev's don't care that this is extremely broken as there's literally nothing you can do in open/dead space around the map.
Interested to know what others think and if BHVR should do something about it?
No.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036631#Comment_4036631
Honestly, the fact that you want to argue for such a blatantly overpowered killer that developers have coddled for years is truly mindboggling. This killer isn't healthy, and any point about SWF being busted at higher levels doesn't negate the fact that this killer is far more damaging to the game, since a single Blight is far more common.
The data doesn't show that, pure and simple. Every time they release data killers like blight are at the middle of the pack, and nurse is usually at the bottom of the list. So obviously they are not overpowered. Again though, unless you are talking about high MMR, which are you? If so then we probably need to be talking about how only 3 killers are viable at that level.
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@saym said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034171#Comment_4034171
What is MMR?
What is MMR?
There’s nothing more ridiculous than talking about something you can’t see, don’t even know if it exists, and that BHVR keeps hidden as if it were imaginary.
Its literal statistics. The data that BHVR releases clearly shows that when looking at the entire player base that these killers are "fine". So obviously that leads to one of the following conclusions:
- Everyone is wrong and these killers are actually totally balanced and you all should stop complaining about them
- The killers are not a problem when looking at the entire player base (hint: the average) because it takes a high skill player to exploit the power of the blight to its fullest and see these imbalances occur.
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@Xray said:
let dead survivors take control of a crow and fly around the map.
Lets give SWFs a massive buff that does nothing useful for solos.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034978#Comment_4034978
why is killer queue so long then?
Idk what region you are in. But since 2v8 ended it's gone back to normal and killer is always at 150% blood points for me.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035625#Comment_4035625
Right if killer isnt super strong and doesnt have fast chases with full meta gen deffence perks he has small chance for win against solid loopers that know counterplay against that killer and do gens effectively (like spreading on two or three hooks before killer can even founf someone and getting them around or even before first hook thats what in higher mmr happens often two gens are done already before killer gets first hook unless survivor missplays super bad or its weaker killer not someone like nurse,dracula,billy,ghoul,blight) then killer has only chance for two kills if survivors dont missplay and when they dont he can get just 1-2 kills but it depends who is he chasing if he commints to one or two same survivors or he spreads hooks thats very important to but thing is if survivors play very effectively on gens they can get them before killer has 6 or more hooks especialy against weaker killers even on maps like haddonfield that doesnt benefit survivors.
I literally showed you the math. If they just hold shift + w (no skill involved) you take at minimum 15 seconds to down them, which really should probably take a little bit longer even in the worst circumstances.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035355#Comment_4035355
The point of tunneling is to get one out early but it is also beneficial to remove hook states from hard to catch survivors by chasing easy to catch survivors that are already injured. It's six easy chases vs 3 easy and 3 hard. The amount of chases doesn't change between tunneling and not tunneling so why not get the easy hook state?
It's also bad from the survivors point of view. Imagine playing solo and a teammate wanting to die removes one of your chances to escape.
Yes, but if you spend time tunneling that 1 survivor, the point is that you still have to catch them 6 times, even doing literally the bare minimum and just running in a straight line and using the endurance effect, 5 gens will get done before you get that 1st kill.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035488#Comment_4035488
I think his point tho is that you can hit the cap way faster with DPI enhancements and other third party software. It's a pretty unfair advantage, seeing as blights already so strong and him turning so fast lets him hit the 180⁰ cap way faster, killing the one counterplay of hiding behind props or walls completely.
Sure, but thats a problem with controller, and effects a ton of other things in the game, not just blight.
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@jamally093 said:
Specifically PC Blights...they can just use a second program or even just some setting on their mouse to make it more sensitive to do spins that wouldn't be possible on console. Now is this cheating? Ehhh no cheating most times is full on hacking the game and taking a very clear advantage to win this would more be.…a little unfair since it's a specific group of blights that can do this plus BHVR has no real way to counter it since they can't just tell every mouse company "Hey can you not do that" now is it worth reporting? No since again it's a little annoying and really difficult to counter a pc Blight since again adjusting mouse sensitivity but not worth reporting on. Now I don't know if they adjust Blights turn rate when swinging so those insane flicks can't happen and I just really unlucky with hit validation...like always or they didn't and again PC Blight with high mouse sensitivity. I will say it's better then Spirit where the volume on their TV or headphones it cranked up to ear bleeding levels because nothing says winning like going deaf.
That's not actually accurate. Blight still has a cap on his turn radius no matter how sensitive you make your mouse you ain't going past that.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035484#Comment_4035484
I think it is a good way to implement this. But the problem which I see here is that you can just run to a gen as an complete immune Survivor and start it when the Killer is away.
Not sure what could be done against this tho.
This would basically be coupled with giving killers actual incentives for hooking survivors. Things like a small basekit painres that just blows up all the gens for like 5-10% or other effects that make it so now that tunneling is gone, the game is properly balanced around basically 12 hooking for the win.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035392#Comment_4035392
Including pallet dropping? I'm not sure about that. It'd work, but it feels a bit clumsy to me.
Basically i would go further than just no collision. I would make them have basically spirits power. They cannot be seen, interacted with, make no noise, no scratch marks, no nothing. But during that time they can't do anything. They can't heal, they can't save, they can't do a gen, they cant drop pallets etc.
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@jesterkind said:
I've been a proponent of this idea for a long time, and while I do still think it's hypothetically one of the best ways of addressing tunnelling, there is one snag I've never been fully sure how to address: Survivors using this lack of collision for saves.
Without collision, the survivor can phase in to the killer and drop a flashbang, or run through them to get a pallet drop prompt, without the killer being able to do anything about it.
IF a solution to that problem can be found, I'm all for it. I've toyed with stuff in the past myself, like survivors not being able to use items while intangible, but that only fixes half the problem- I'm curious if you've got any ideas for addressing it!
This is why while that is happening they shouldn't be able to do any of that stuff.
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@Volcz said:
B/c you signed up to a match to see it through, you're able to actively move around and still use your power, you can still catch survivors not near gates, etc. Just b/c your ego gets hurt is not a valid reason to end/exit a match (goes both ways).
So then survivors shouldn't be able to abandon then.
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@DevLinky said:
Before anyone gets me wrong, I do not believe Kaneki to be THAT strong. He's good, but there's counterplay and the 50/50s at pallets are very enjoyable, just as they are against Huntress.
The issue is on his LOCK-IN-PLACE attack, which is just very, very, very bad design.
Let me explain.
On the killer's end, you get stuck in place but it doesn't feel bad. Why? Because you are the one initiating the action, therefore it feels REWARDING.What's happening? ⇒ Locked in place.
Why? ⇒ Hit landed.
Brain ⇒ Dopamine.
Now on the other end, survivors getting locked in place feels so awful, clunky, uninteractive, blablabla. Simply because ON TOP OF GETTING HIT (first penalty: you lose a health state), you also get STUNNED. This feels twice as bad as getting hit. Very poor design. Honestly, even slowing survivors by 90% would make everything way smoother. BHVR, please hire me. You need it.
Now, some people might bring up Wesker, trying to equate the "Throwing" to the "Locked-in place", except that they are inherently different for the sole reason that Wesker CAN MISS. If Wesker throws the survivor in the open air, nothing happens. So, as a Survivor, when you lose a health state to Wesker's power, it doesn't feel as bad as Kaneki's because he could have missed but didn't, you got outplayed.Its more of an animation problem. If the animation made it so it was clear that like, one of the tentacle things was physically grabbing the survivor, or lifting them up in the air, or some other thing, it wouldn't be as jarring.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034910#Comment_4034910
Wasn´t that the reason why Slugging became a problem in the first place? Because it was negative impact for the Killer to hook at all? You pick up, risking a save, walking to hook, hooking, activating perks like OTR DS and DH. It is a big time investment.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034905#Comment_4034905
The big problem with this is the following mentality. "You won´t heal me? Well here I go to the Killer and screw you over"
Another big problem which was seen on the PTB was that if you give Survivors the safety of beeing save from tunneling it can be weaponized pretty easy together with basekit unbreakable this makes some horrible scenarios. "Hehe I am on death hook, I will go for body blocks. Oh I got downed and slugged for 20 seconds. LETS DO IT AGAIN!" /evil voice off. You see the problem in that I hope.
I once thought about this mechanic. If the Killer picks up a survivor and carries them to a hook all Gens get blocked for the time the Killer invests. But I am unsure about this.
This is why i say share the FIRST hook state only, and not all hook states. That way every survivor still gets 2 chances at least even if a teammate is bad, or causes issues.
Also throwing the game on purpose like that is a reportable and bannable offense. And even if a survivor did that, it would still give the other survivors a ton of time on gens for free without any pressure while that 1 survivor spends time throwing the game.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034905#Comment_4034905
There's an obvious problem with that. It encourages tunneling! You can get free hook states on hard survivors by bullying the same survivor over and over?
It actually discourages it. The reason that tunneling works is because you can eliminate someone early. If it takes you 6 hooks of tunneling the same guy. Thats 6 separate chases. Assuming the first chase lasts like 25 seconds for 2 hits and each of the other 5 chases lasts the minimum amount of 15 seconds (the duration of the endurance) that would still take you.
- 25 seconds first chase
- 15 second other chase * 5
- 2.7 second wipe animation * 6
- 3 second pickup animation * 6
- 8 seconds to walk to hook * 6
- 1.5 second hook animation * 6
That's a total of 25 + 75 + (15.2 * 6) = 191.2 seconds.
Gens take 90 seconds. Thats almost 200 seconds of 2 survivors doing nothing but gens (you are tunneling remember?) And a 3rd stopping periodically to unhook the guy getting tunneled and going back to a gen while the killer spends time tunneling that person. And this is assuming that the survivor getting tunneled can't get to a pallet in that 15 second endurance and the killer waits it out instead of having a proper chase that probably is able to last 25+ seconds assuming the killer hits them right off the hook.
If you can't finish 5 gens and escape while 2 survivors get 3 full minutes each of uninterrupted gen time, its a you problem at that point.
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@まうっす said:
Everyone says we need to create an environment without tunneling. But how do we actually coordinate such an environment? If we were to hang everyone to the average level once, wouldn't that be like forcing everyone to finish a marathon holding hands?
The way i would do is that survivors share the 1st hook state. Meaning that the earliest you could remove someone from the game is the 6th hook, which at that point most people would agree is near the later half of the game.
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@iOverSpray said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034539#Comment_4034539
Thanks. So just vault and not touch any thing?
Basically, but the range is super short, so if they move away it won't hit them. Its kind of a guess as to if you think they are going to revault, or if you think they are going to keep running.
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@iOverSpray said:
Isn't it part of his anti loop kit is to be able to hit the survivor when they try and immediately jump back over the pallet you just vaulted? Works 30% of the time. The other 70 is just another bugged out bigger issue.
You have to not move while you do it. If you move forward they are able to get behind you and start the vault animation.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034138#Comment_4034138
So we are doing a BHVR now?
You know very well why these killers are high in numbers. Because of their gimmicks being hard for beginners. They fall off in higher tier gameplay. Nurse and blight might be a bit more difficult for LITERALLY BEGINNERS (roughly 50hours) but anyone that has basic understanding of the game, perks and maps will play 5 games with them and start destroying.
I dont need stats to prove that. Its common sense.
And i think finidng a good blight (one that wins A MAJORITY OF THEIR GAMES) is A LOT more common than a 4man comp swf.
That is THE POINT. The point is at average level play, they are fine, but at high level play they are not, but niether are survivors because 30+ killers aren't viable at that level.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034111#Comment_4034111
Bhvr cannot do anything about SFW as they are using third party clients such as discord, Blight on the other hand is internally in the game and BHVR can fiddle with it way more easier. I play solo q and get a fair amount of double speed ad on blights.
genuinely curious tho what you want done to addresses sfw because they are using comms outside of the game that's hard for bhvr to do anything about.
only thing I can think of is you could show in lobby who is sfw but that would lead to lobby dodging and would only be fair if survivors could do the same then nobody would get into a match. (perfect exapmle is TCSM the game, you could see who was sfw in that game and so often people would lobby dodge.Ideally you solve it by bringing solos up to par with SWFs and nerfing survivors as a whole or buffing killers as a whole.
There are also changes i would do to the game that would nerf survivors at a high level while not hurting the lower mmr survivors.
But i never said any of that. My point is simple. If one thing is a problem because of what high skill players can do with it, then whats good for the goose is good for the gander and by DEFINITION you must also believe the other is a problem.
My point is, the same people who complain about blight, which really only matters when going up against a really good blight (or nurse for that matter) also think its fine that high MMR SWFs can dominate the game. You can't want to nerf one without nerfing the other or you are biased.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034171#Comment_4034171
Still he needs some small changes like loosing tokens when he breaks (ghoul got this even the fact blight would need this too, i would give him loosing 2 tokens when doing break action and maybe none if he breaks with his power because he already needs two to do this). I think blight should be strong killer because he is kinda fun and has huge skill floor.
Ok, so he needs some changes, whbat about survivors?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034138#Comment_4034138
Is this high mmr kill rate or average kill rate?
So l assume its average kill rate so lets break each killers
- lich has multiple weaker powers in one which makes him very hard to understand for many players because each of his powers has different counter, his items that counter each power are strong and ofcourse the stronger the power the better the effect to counter it like the haste from boots for mage hand, so in short he is hard to understand and he isnt most played killer so its quite on the rare end of killers survivors get which means he will have gook kill rate on average (survivors that know how to counter his powers will mop the floor with the lich because he has no hig techs such as blight or super busted power).
- freddy had always one of highest kill rates even when he was at his lowest which is because of few things like he was played by his main mainly and they can boost killers kill rate very high because they play their killer mainly which means they are better with that killer than some average kill who just sometimes plays that killer, second thing is his power isnt so easy to understand for survivors either and now he has multiple of them from buffed teleport (he can tp to sleeping survivors when they heal and effect for it is uknown by many like they dont think the smoke means anything), hinder with snares, some help from dream pallets and he has lullaby when survivors are asleep which means no terror radius.
- sadako like freddy had always high kill rate even the fact she is one of worst killers but then main like onepumpwilly can boost her kill rate high when they know how to play her at her best and master her, again very hard power for survivors to understand she was three times reworked so more than half of the community (I bet) even doesnt know what her power does now, how it functions so again just another "noob stomper" like many of these killers
- dreadge is just very low mediocre killer at his best maybe mediocre even weaker than freddy and harder I would say but his power many survivors doesnt understand either like locking two lockers next toeach other isnt good thing or his nightfall is another mechanic that stomps survivors that doesnt understand it either so another "noob stomper" we can say and he isnt that played either even the fact now there are more lockers and he is better than before.
- pig is one of weakest killers in the game but many survivors are just srewed by her traps becasue they dont understand them and panic a lot plus from all the killers she is the least played here right behind merchant and twins
- twins are very strong and rare so again many survivors doesnt even get them more than few times a year compare to ghouls,weskers,blights,huntresses etc. so they are just having this advantage of not being popular and thats helps them because many survivors doesnt know how to play against them and they are master of slugging (their whole power is just best slugging power in the game and add soloq aspect to it and you get your high chances for 4k)
- blight is one of hardest mechanical killers but understanding him gives the player huge advantage because his power covers many things like mobility,antiloop which is something he is very good at and his power is second best in the game if player know how to use it because you can get across the map in seconds (unless its indoor map but still he has there great mobility compare to m1 killers), his dashes are too fast that survivors can prerun you or run into open or be greedy on long wall loops like shack because just one small mistake and you catch them in seconds and hit them, with his small cooldown and great mobility with insane speed he is just king of DBD and second strongest killer even after his hug tech removal and addon nerfs
- ghoul is just weaker than blight but he is much easier to understand and to play which makes him more better pick for average joe than blight, he is in top 5 strongest killers which means he is super strong if 40 killers are in the game.
- skullmerchant had always high kill rates even toped the kill rates in her strongest time and even after her rework (mostly due to survviors giving up or killing themselfs on hook), she is weakest killer in the game with trapper and she still is there even after her buffs another thing is she is only played mostly by her mains and they are good with her and try to hold her because its their main so thats why her kill rate is better than killer like trapper or trickster,bubba,billy,nurse (not in high mmr because there she is joke if survivors take that match serioisly.
- oni was made easier (little) but I would say now he is more accessible than before beacuse he can flick now even on controller which was just MK thing before, for me he is still harder killer because now his flicking is much easier due to his increesed turn rate so now its hard to hit it right, he is just killer that is m1 and has probably hardest requirement for getting his power which is god mode (I believe if he could have his power fo 60 seconds and didnt lost 7 seconds when he hits survivor with it while charging or using his instadown then he would be in top 5 because his power has high mobility,instadown, longer reach and dash attack which are easier to control than billy or blight), he is well balanced and his counterplay is just easy dont give him hits and blood for his power but his explosive gameplay is what makes him so succesful like you can be looped like baby and the get power and down two survivors in 15 seconds window which is something even blight or nurse cant pull while survivors are healty.
Blight is problem with how strong he is he should get same token reduction as ghoul and maybe 12 seconds cooldown instead of 10 because he is very strong but hard to play and liked by his mains and community ("golde child of DBD") which makes him kinda immune to nerfs compare to other killers like merchant or knight, nurse needs rework because she cant be nerfed hard she is just 100% all around her power so her power has to be strong so she will either will be very strong,strongest or super bad trash killer.
Freddy doesnt need rework or nerfs he is ok now, lich is ok a-tier which looks thats when devs want their killers to be in range around lich,wesker to springtrap in terms of power so they can better balance this mess.
Sadako very weak killer low c-tier at best, dreadge mediocre at his best, pig is only top tier in eyes of her mains but in reality she is weak low c-tier, twins are very strong but they will probably get changed because if devs want to give survivors basekit antislug mechanic then twins need some reshape so they can be more in current game like ability to teleport to victors location and despawn him with longer cooldown so they can get that hook from down they made across the map etc..
But that is precisely my point.
At average MMR blight is not a problem because average skill survivors are going against average skill blights who aren't curving around tight corners and bouncing from loop to loop downing people in 10 seconds.
Likewise, high MMR blights are going against high MMR survivors. Which, if that is the case and blight is a problem there, then BY DEFINITION you must also contend with the fact that high MMR survivors are a problem for 30+ killers who just aren't viable at that level.
So the point is, you have to pick one.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034111#Comment_4034111
You dont need to be "cracked" at blight to win a majority of your games with him. Same with nurse.
The data BHVR releases shows otherwise. Usually blight is in the middle of the pack and nurse is near the bottom of the pack.
Hell the last time they released data, you know what the top 10 killers were by kill rate?
- Lich
- Freddy
- Sadako
- Dredge
- Pig
- Twins
- BLIGHT
- Ghoul
- SKULL MERCHANT (MIND YOU THIS IS PREBUFF)
- Oni
So, either, you think blight is a problem, and then also lich, freddy, sadako, dredge, pig, and twins need to be nerfed.
OR
You believe that blight is a problem and needs to be nerfed because in the hands of really good killer players he is a problem (along with nurse) and if so, by DEFINITION you MUST also believe that survivors need to be nerfed because of what the best survivor players are capable of doing.
You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.
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@random1543 said:
I honestly don't mind a good blight match.
The issue with him in my opinion are his speed ad ons which is what the majority of blights run.
Blighted Rat ad on
Blighted Crow ad on
Can we please have these changed / reworked. Thank you.The same people who want blight nerfed, are the same people who say that its rare to go against really good SWFs and because they are rare its fine that survivors can be OP at the highest levels.
If you don't think those are a problem, than neither is blight because it is just as rare for you to go against those cracked blight players as well.
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@PhisixX said:
I am curious to know how many complaints there were about the survivors use of the Styptic agent. I personally did not think the anti-haemorrhagic agent needed any rework, which is fine. Drastic, but fine. I now come to realize not only was this add-on drastically changed, but so was the Styptic agent, among many other changes. Seeing so many changes, all at once, and so drastic, begs the question.. was the game really that broken? To need to change so many things so much all at once? It begs the question.. were there really this many complaints about several areas of the game.. or were these changes more so done like drawing straws from a hat and 'thinking' the game needed many changes. Sometimes there is such thing as a well oiled machine, and having no change is better than unwanted change.
Have you ever tried playing against the old one? The endurance effect was pretty broken in chase and the self heal meant you could get unhooked, pop the self heal, and go work a gen and lose 0 gen efficiency. You gained full 24 seconds of efficiency on a single addon. Now imagine that on 4 different survivors. No perk, or addon, or anything on survivor side added that much time efficiency.
Keep in mind that pain res, a killer perk that is generally seen as one of the better gen perks, adds 18 seconds of efficiency 4 times.
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@MoZo said:
because i can confirm in my games (both killer and survivor), the pick rate for the styptic has dropped by 100%. i haven’t seen a single styptic at all since 9.3 dropped. i hope that the devs have similar feedback so it shows them how poorly executed the styptic rework is.
if they are gonna double down and keep the current effect, they need to at the very least buff it to 33% so it completely removes the basekit -33% efficiency from self heals.
Mission succeeded i guess. That's how BHVR rolls with things they want to nerf. They completely gut them so nobody uses them anymore, and then rework them 2 years later.
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@Fuzzels said:
Curious what people would like to see with MMR changes.
Personally, I'd love to see it shift more towards being team based, and not so much each individual survivor. If one person is tunneled out but the other 3 get the gens done and escape, the game should absolutely recognize that as a win for survivors and an increase in MMR for all FOUR of them, not just the escapees.
Afterall, it's a 1v4. Not a 1v1v1v1v1.
Also, we need a solid ruling as for what is a win, what is a tie, and what is a loss for each side. I get it, some people think "oh ho ho, I got 3 flash bangs so I don't care that the survivors died, I won" or "ooh yeah I killed the one survivor who was tbagging me and BMing, so I don't care that the other 3 escaped, I won" and that's fine. But the game as a whole needs a genuine decision MMR wise, who won and who lost.
I hope they stop tracking just kills and escapes and start tracking the quality of a match.
I'd argue a match where the killer gets 9 hooks but 3 survivors escape is a win for the killer.
Likewise, if 1 survivor loops a killer for 5 gens and dies, but the other 3 escape, that 1 survivor should also get a win.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033598#Comment_4033598
i agree but ds should be changed anyway
Sure, changed to do something else entirely in the same patch they make tunneling a non-issue. But no DS should not be changed in its current state.
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@orange7 said:
This has been mentioned in the past as a potential change or rework, but why not have DS disable a killer's power temporarily after the stun? In the current game, there is a large disparity between killer powers in terms of strength. A stronger killer (nurse, blight, krasue, ghoul) faces fewer obstacles to tunnel than a weaker killer, such as trapper or pig. This change would level out this disparity and make it more difficult to tunnel. As it stands, a DS means little to nothing to a nurse or blight who can easily catch up seconds after the stun. This change would make it more difficult to tunnel on these stronger killers, and yet, it would have almost no meaningful effect on a weaker killer like Freddy. Numbers can be decided; it should not be a long duration, but enough to have a relevant impact.
DS, a perk that you MUST spend money to get access to, is not and should not be the solution to tunneling. It should not be bandaid fixed via a perk change that not everyone has access to. Tunneling should be fixed at a base level to be impossible (or useless) through mechanics changes.
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033510#Comment_4033510
In theory yes, but I myself never saw that happen in 2v8. I think it’s very rare. But you do have a point that it could be exploited in 1v4 and probably more easily since it’s much more likely to have a coordinated team in 1v4 than in 2v8.
Its not about the rarity of a situation. Its the fact that it IS exploitable. If you make a mechanic to bandaid things that ultimate can be exploitable then its a bad fix.
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@orange7 said:
The Problem:
Frankly, the game is designed as a 4v1. That is why tunneling is so effective; it reduces the game to a 3v1 scenario in which the odds are heavily stacked to the killer (obviously). If a player is dead at 5 gens, the game is essentially a loss for survivors. It's unproductive to give survivors insane speed, endurance, no scratchmarks, etc., when survivors can already bring perks such as DS, OTR, DH, and more. What needs to be evaluated is the 3v1 situation, especially at 4 and 5 gens, without punishing the killer player for gameplay to the level of disrupting or limiting their player agency.The Long-Term Solution:
While a blanket gen repair speed buff for remaining survivors in a trial, if the right conditions are met, is ultimately the correct solution to tunneling, this may be too abrasive to initially implement. [The condition of a survivor dying at 3, 4, or 5 gens is met, similar to the bonuses in 2v8.] The "hyper-turbo-tunneling" playstyle is mitigated when the 3v1 scenario is slightly more evened out. To highlight this, many survivors will not bother to work on gens if there is already a player dead at 4 or 5 gens, seeing it as pointless. Yet, once the knowledge of "evened-out" gen repair speeds is implemented in a match, it may encourage survivors to continue to play even with a killed teammate.
The Easier Solution:
Collectively, we should begin balancing by looking at what actually informs player gameplay and alters strengths and playstyles: Perks. Many perks for survivors are outright disabled once endgame begins, such as DS, OTR, and others. This is a good thing. While all the gens being completed is an indication of the killer losing, when is that moment for survivor? Typically, it is most commonly "decided" for the survivors when there is a player dead with multiple gens remaining. It is poor game balance to allow large gen slowdown perks to work with a player dead at 4 or 5 gens. If a player is tunneling aggressively at 5 gens and has a kill by 4 gens remaining, it is currently possible to continue to have 3 pain res hooks to regress gens.
Similar to the state of certain survivor perks that disable in endgame, there should be a limit or caveat on gen regression perks that prevent them from further use if the condition of a survivor dying at 4 or 5 gens is met. Pain res would disable outright. If a player is playing killer in a match and has killed someone with 5 gens remaining, are pain res and other slowdown perks necessary to win? It's unlikely.It is possible that this change could encourage players to spread hooks more appropriately and shy away from tunneling playstyles.
At the end of the day, your suggestions are bandaid fixes. As long as it is POSSIBLE for someone to be removed from the game early, then it will always be a problem. Punishing the killer is not the solution because then it can be weaponized by good players who know how to do so, and for bad players, they will just keep getting tunneled anyway.
The proper solution is much simpler. Make it impossible to actually remove a survivor from the match early and balance the game around that.
The better solution is a total rework of the game.
Imagine something that was more lore based than what we have now. A system where, instead of killing survivors, the killer has to fill up a bar, that represents the survivor's "hope" that the entity feeds off of. The killer's goal is to fill up this bar by doing actions. Downing survivors, hooking them, kicking gens, etc. The survivor's goal is to escape before the killer can do this. If the killer fills up the hope bar, then the survivors lose, and the entity kills 3 of the survivors, and leaves 1 of them alive as a "reward" for the killer. This puts the killer and that survivor in a little 1v1 zone, where the killer has to kill them before a hatch opens up that the survivor can escape from and get away. (think like, the haloween event, and have a hatch that starts closed and after say, 60 seconds, the hatch opens and the survivor can escape, probably in this zone you'd disable killer powers and all perks and such to just make it a pure 1v1)
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@orange7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033147#Comment_4033147
Perks are advantages— here's why. While the game is asymmetrical, imagine for a moment that you have two completely equal-skilled teams competing in a tournament. They take turns and alternate on the same map with no spawn variation whatsoever (every loop is the same every time). The same killer is chosen each time as well. Now, also imagine that one of these teams is allowed to bring perks and items with no restrictions, while the 2nd team is not allowed to. The match will be decided by perks alone; their existence inherently is an advantage.
The same applies outside of a strict tournament setting, too; it's universal in 1v4 dbd. A player on Killer running strong perks with add-ons will likely beat a team running nothing, or vice versa. While we have all seen competitive teams run no perks and absolutely crush casual killer players, these are rare outliers and do not reflect the broad overall casual experience.Perks are part of the game, its not an "advantage" that is giving to you by the kind developers. Its your build. Same as items and perks for survivor, or addons for killer, or even the killer you pick.
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@Classic_Rando said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032902#Comment_4032902
Because some players feel entitled to escape no matter how poorly they play.
I would actually be ok with some kind of minor comeback mechanic for both sides just to make it slightly less likely that one side steamrolls the other. The 2v8 gen speed buffs/nerfs depending on number of hooks seems like a reasonable thing to try in normal 1v4 mode.
The 2v8 mechanic is horrible and exploitable and just leads to more problems. Organized survivor teams will actually 99 multiple gens so they can pop them in quick succession instead of taking the penalty. Organized killer teams will tunnel out survivors so they only get one penalty (you don't get the penalty for tunnels)
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033147#Comment_4033147
The advantage is the dead survivor. Currently slowdown perks stack on top of that advantage, but removing that stacking does not remove the core advantage.
You are literally saying that the "punishment" that the killer would receive by disabling gen perks, is actually not a punishment but that they receive less of a "benefit"
No you don't get to do that, perks are a core mechanic of the game. You don't get to say that they are a "benefit" and taking it away just means "well you lost your benefit" no thats not how that works.
How about if a gen gets done before a hook survivors lose all their exhaustion perks? You aren't really losing anything, you are just losing a benefit that you get in the normal game.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032902#Comment_4032902
I do think it's worth pointing out that the "punishment" the killer receives here is that they gain slightly less of a huge advantage compared to live servers.
It's not even resetting the killer player to neutral - they lose access to remaining Pain Res tokens, and in exchange, gain the ability to halt generator repair entirely through basic gameplay alone. Someone dead is a huge advantage, having access to strong slowdown perks on top of that is overkill.
Broadly, to OP's topic more generally, I do think this kind of restriction is helpful for slowdown perks. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that most of them should be balanced around disabling when someone dies period, regardless of gen count.
It's not the only change I'd make, but it would be a good one.No, a perk isn't an "advantage" it is a core mechanic of the game. You don't get to rebrand it just to fit your narrative.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032605#Comment_4032605
the problem with this, is the good survivor who got tunneled MMR goes down and creates unbalanced games
I agree with that for sure. MMR is tracking the wrong things.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032907#Comment_4032907
I only mention her because she was changed so you would assume people would at least try her out.
I don't need to try her out to know she is still garbage.