Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@random1543 said:
"If anti slugging and tunneling come through all you will see are the top tiers"
Well they didn't go through, and I would say the majority of matches have been ghoul and blight since the update
Making the game easier for low tiers while doing nothing about the high tiers, people are still going to just play high tiers but now swamp solo q even more
Need to stop this "we need to nerf survivor for the low tiers" then that is done and the majority of matches are still high tiers..
The low tiers should be thriving this update, but because we still have killers like blight unchanged, people who want to swamp matches are just going to pick them.
Edit: played a fair few hours today and yesterday, and haven't even seen a skull merchant who was changed.Well considering skull merchant is still the worst killer in the game.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032902#Comment_4032902
If they intentionally get in the way, or playing in an aggressive manner, I have no problem slugging them on the ground for a bit, while I do my business elsewhere.
Like, there are plenty of times where like a bubba, or a trickster can just down the whole team because they get totally outplayed. Why should they be given another chance at that point to get back into the match when they messed up so badly that all 4 of them get downed in rapid succession?
I did this, but with Myers. I have no problem giving people a second chance, if I feel like the game was over too quickly.
Also no, you can't slug them, because we already determined we don't like that, and survivors should be able to just pick themselves up remember?
So should killers get one too? Maybe if the survivors pop a gen in the first chase before the first hook they all get injured? Or maybe they all get a repair speed penalty? Should they also get punished for playing too well?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032892#Comment_4032892
There are other ways for killers to gain advantages, other than tunneling someone out at 5 gens.
That's what this is about.Spreading pressure, being practically omnipresent makes it a lot harder to sit on gens.
This has been proven time and time again to be a bad thing. Lets say hypothetically you hook a survivor twice, now that survivor becomes "immune". They can intentionally throw themselves at the killer, get in the way, and be a bother and the killer can do nothing to stop them because if they do "oh well you did the bad thing so now you get punished naughty killer".
Even with the whole like "oh slugging for a long time is bad and slugging the whole team is bad. Like, there are plenty of times where like a bubba, or a trickster can just down the whole team because they get totally outplayed. Why should they be given another chance at that point to get back into the match when they messed up so badly that all 4 of them get downed in rapid succession?
I don't understand this fascination with punishing a killer for playing well and doing exactly the thing they are supposed to be doing.
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For anyone else getting this, it looks like there might be an issue going on:
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@BongoBoys said:
Specifically Mobility and Hinder Killers if you look at the video maps have been tailored to M1 Killer standards now this isn't a problem per say m1 Killers have a chance to get a hit in however Mobility and Hinder Killers are now a death sentence S-Tier Killers like Blight have turned into SSS-Tier what small chance we had against them is now completely gone.
If these changes are gonna stay then we're gonna need Nerfs and soon.
This seems to be a little bit overkill but basically in the drection that these should go. There needs to me more filler tiles, but the filler tiles should be less safe, and effectively be 50/50s. While the stronger tiles should be on the edges of the map. This creates gameplay that isn't just "run to nearest pallet and immediately drop it" because you have to acutally think about when you drop the pallet.
Ideally they need to slightly lengthen up a few of these loops and we'll see some solid balance that will buff survivor players who aren't as good, while nerfing top mmr survivors.
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@ImWinston said:
- I was sure it would end up like this. Some loops are really ridiculous... but despite everything, I didn't see a single Trapper or Ghostface in my entire play session (killers who in theory should now be encouraged to be played).... always the same 5 Top Killers (Blight, Kaneki, Oni, etc etc) + Skull merchant.
oni, and skull merchant are top 5 killers?
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@ImWinston said:
- 70% of the new pallets are the classic 50/50. So goodbye to skill (on the part of the killer and survivor) and just a celebration of randomness. Some people talk about "dead zones", but honestly I haven't noticed any in my games.
50/50 IS skill though. God pallets are not skill, you just drop the pallet and the killer must break it. A 50/50 creates an interaction, a potential mindgame, a situation where one player is able to actually use skill to outplay the other.
This is why to me, the best tile in the game, is the TL wall. It is a true 50/50 you can't "check spot" it. You have to mindgame your opponent and determine what you think the other is going to do, and punish that decision with yours. And the best part? Its not even done via a pallet, which means its a permanent structure that is always available.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029555#Comment_4029555
The answer is that you have to contend with balancing around them both.
"That's impossible" yeah, close to it. That doesn't mean one type of player should be discarded when it comes to balance consderations, it just means BHVR has to continue to work through balancing a game that has millions of players with different needs and balancing points.
No, not impossible. But to do so by definition still means you have to buff like 30+ killers.
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@cogsturning said:
It's a stupidly small distance. Camping is still really easy. The change they were going to do wasn't enough and it still got canceled, which is wild to me.
Its half a terror radius.
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@Colt45m said:
You die. Plain and simple. If killer decides to proxy you on hook just DC and go next.
And this is why it counters you so hard.
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Hello everyone,
I am a bit confused.
When I started playing Dbd Pyramid Head was the New Killer in town.
In the good old days the Movement Speed on Killers got explained to me like this.
If the Killer is ranged or has a strong ability like Nurse or Spirit, they got 4.4ms all others have 4.6ms.
Well this seems to be over.
Deathslinger is 4.4 but Trickster 4.6? Both are ranged
Spirit 4.4 but Blight 4.6? Both have strong abilitys
Chucky 4.4 but Myers 4.6? both have a dash
Am I missing a rule? Or is it just a coin toss every time?
This is one of those things that i think really is a relic of the past. I would argue all killers should just be 4.6. There really isn't a killer at this point that is strong enough (with one exception) to warrant moving slower.
- Spirit has been nerfed and nerfed some more to the point that her power isn't as good as it used to be (for example hearing exactly where she is)
- Huntress is ok, she's not great not bad, but a slight buff in this area could be worth testing. Perhaps it comes with a slight nerf to her hatched holding movement speed.
- Deathslinger is just bad
- Hag is just bad after the changes to be able to wipe her traps
- Myers is probably fine to be slower a bit in his state because its sort of part of the power and not basekit
- Chucky has been nerfed tons, an arguement could be made for him to stay 110 because with his smaller hitbox he can loop tighter, so the slower movement speed doesn't impact him as much. Would be something that should be tested, its hard to say without actually playing it.
And then there is nurse. Nurse is the only one who really deserves the slower movement speed. But as a nurse main, i think its time to rework her anyway, perhaps by making her have different "modes" she switches to, or has to build up the power to blink like oni.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
while I’m very grateful your taking the feedback seriously but there’s a problem
Not every YouTuber or dbd influencer is 100% correct this update wouldn’t have killed the game
You could have still introduced the killer unique hooks and added some as is and balance from there
scrapping everything is just saying your bending the knee and caving to all pressureI will say I’m happy the camping changes are coming and that is perfect, I feel the perk changes were fine they didn’t need to get reverted(except BS, OTR, Wicked)
Did you even try the PTB and play as killer against a compentent team? (I.E. in customs not relying on MMR which is non-existant in PTB?)
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@random1543 said:
Just versed a p100 spirt, accused me of hacking, asked what she thought was hacking and she just going off like "you know what you are doing"
solo q teamamate asked as well what she thought looked like hacking and she just called her out as well and called us swf.
not everyone that beats you is hacking. not everyone is in a swf, some people are just chilling and playing a game.
just wanted to put a PSA out.
edit: the only logic I could think she thought was hacking was fixated, a well known sorta counter to spirt. but a p100 should know that.Once you have played this game enough hours, it becomes obvious when someone is "subtle hacking". Probably in say 5-10% of my matches, i run into a survivor that moves JUST a LITTLE bit faster than i they should. Or Vaults just a LITTLE bit faster than normal. And when you go to look you see no perks in play for that kind of thing. So it just becomes super apparent sometimes.
Its possible the person mistaked you for someone else, you said it was solo queue, so whose to say someone else in the game wasn't cheating? Maybe that someone else was making it look like YOU were cheating (hackers can modify all kinds of stuff)
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@yato said:
Dead Devs, i mean, Spirit has 4.4m/s of movement speed and with her power reach 7.04 m/s and can't see the survivors and got nerfed, while blight has 4.6m/s and with his power reach 9.2 m/s and can see the survivors… you think this is balance? GG
Hypothetical question for you.
Should the game be balanced around high level players, or average level players?
The reality is, if you balance the game around average level players, then why would you nerf blight? In the hands of the average killer player, he performs quite averagely, if anything probably underperforms
If you balance the game around high level players, then why would you ONLY be nerfing blight and also not buffing like 30+ killers or nerfing survivors?
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4029009#Comment_4029009
Well, they could slighly nerf him (not saying exactly like OP said, there are other ways) and revert the pallet changes since they were pretty much made to slow killers like him down.
Why would you slightly nerf him? He's similar to nurse where he is only really good if the person playing him is REALLY REALLY good. And the average survivor player isn't playing against a 5k hour blight.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
this might be a hot topic but blight is the most double standard killer ever, he gets all these bonuses while killers around him get nerfed while he still remains in the same spot. It begs the question should blight be toned down a little??
im not asking for a skull merchant execution just some little tweaks to slow him down a littleMy only 2 changes I would do is making blight 110% MS(4.4M/S) and make it so when he breaks a pallet it consumes 1 token so he can’t just instantly rush
If ghoul gets that nerf it’s only fair he gets it too
You want to nerf a killer whose power isn't really that great at loops unless he is being played by someone who has like 10k hours in the game, in a world where maps have 8000 pallets on them because of "QOL changes"?
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@The_Count said:
Players are letting gens 99% to bypass this crap and pop 3 or 4 of them in a row or after some hooks so they don't get slow gen speed.
If you find a gen at 99% you have to kick it and stay in the area a little while or else the gen could be popped and with that you can't get into chases or go to another part of the map to check other gens.
Even a duo of killers with high mobility can't be at all the places at the same time.
It doesn't help that you guys doubled everything EXCEPT the gen charges. It takes 540 charges in 1v4 to complete all 5 gens and 560 to all 8 in 2v8.The whole mechanic is kinda messed up TBH. It actually punishes killers for not tunneling and rewards them for tunneling since its about unique hooks. The best way for killers to deal with it is to just tunnel someone out instead of spreading hooks.
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@Destaice said:
If you've played any ranked symmetrical PvP game you've undoubtedly noticed problems with its matchmaking system. Whether that be players who lacked the skill for their ranking, or that player refuses to engage with ranked play seriously.
If we use League of Legends as an example. We've all had the blind supremacist support because they oppose vision wards, the bot/mid carries who think being out of position is a career goal, or the jungler/top who think they're playing a single player game. Or players who won't pick strong champions because "I hate meta sheep" when adapting to the meta is a core component of ranked play.
In DBD these problems are extreme. The asymmetrical nature of the game means player rankings are all over the place. Factor in how there's no ranked queue so players have no incentive to play around a meta. You are allowed to play a rummage chest build and get your entire team killed because you spent 2 generators worth of time rummaging for a broken key. Now add in additional factors like players giving up or farming killers and matchmaking gets really silly really fast.
This isn't just personal experience. Go watch any streamer and the wild inconsistency in player skill. Watch a killer main barely pull out a win against good survivors and in their next match play against 3 baby survivors for a stomp and in their next match a hatch gamer who let's their team die. Then the next game a P100 survivor goes second hook stage while their team finishes the last gen so that survivor blocks the exit gate on unhook because "how dare you not unhook me" as if they don't understand the value of popping the last gen.
Yes other games with MMR systems are messy but DBD is the only one I've played that I'd describe as burnt. It's just too wildly inconsistent to say its an intentional choice. I suspect the lack of a ranked queue and the asymmetrical design combined are the biggest reasons why. But ranked queues are an entire light novel worthy discussion on their own.
But the reason I made this thread is because in the kettle of hot takes on tunneling a common argument in defense of tunneling is "but I have high mmr." And well, you don't. It's not real. You know it's not real. You know that 1 game you'll barely get that win and the next you'll tunnel out a noob who throws unsafe pallets like the Steelers throw games. MMR has no business being so prevelant in these discussions when it has this many problems.
The concept of high MMR has NOTHING to do with the game being asymmetrical. There are plenty of games that are arguably "asymmetrical" and are able to have MMR mean something in them. Look at for example CS2. In CS one side is the defender, has different weapons available to them from the other side who is the attacker. You do swap sides, but a match can effectively be decided in the first half if one side does particularly well.
The reason that MMR is a joke in DBD is because they are measuring the wrong things. In games like LoL, or DotA, or CS2, or any other multiplayer game, the players on the TEAM win and lose as TEAM. A survivor in DBD could be really good, run the killer for 5 gens, and the other 3 escape and then die, and guess what, that survivor is considered to have "lost" and now loses MMR.
The problem is that BHVR balances this game like is a 1v4, but scores your performance based on 4 1v1s.
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@SoGo said:
Lol, those people are really pathetic.
Imagine how low you have to stoop to create a full-on witchhunt, just because an opponent played in a way you disliked.
No one likes being tunneled but god, can't these people get over it?
It doesn't surprise me based on how the community is with this game.
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@jesterkind said:
This is a take I've seen a fair amount over the last few years, and I've never understood what it means. The best way to find out about opinions you don't understand is to ask, so that's what I'm doing here!
If you personally feel this way + have made this argument before, I'm curious about two things:
- What would you actually want to see changed about the balancing for hooks over kills?
- What is it about the current state of things that makes you think BHVR are balancing for kills over hooks?
So, some specific ideas for what could change, and some specific things about the previous few years that make you think BHVR balance for kills over hooks, if you don't mind.
There is one restriction though: Don't mention the MMR system. It's not a balancing variable, it's a matchmaker, and while I do have a suspicion at least a few people who talk about this really just mean they want the matchmaker adjusted, I prefer not to assume people mean something other than what they say. So instead, I'm asking in good faith for a balance discussion and not a matchmaker discussion.
I appreciate any answers I get!
The main way would be to make it not possible to remove someone from them match "early" and then considering a win/loss based on hook count rather than kill count.
For example, 6 hooks with no kills would bbe a draw. 8 hooks with no kills would be a win. and so on type thing.
My suggestion around this in a simple way is to simply have survivors share the 1st hook state. This means that the earliest you oculd remove a survivor from the game, is on the 6th hook, and that is if you tunnel them on hooks 5 and 6. This would be a way to:
- Ensure survivors aren't being removed super early, the earliest being the 6th hook should be well into the later part of a match
- Ensure that bad survivors don't completely tank the team by having all hook states shared, everyone is always going to get at least 2 hooks of their own. So if you are a really good player, and your team is bad, they might burn through the "team" hooks quickly, but you still get 2 of your own.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027735#Comment_4027735
I would agree, though I dislike the idea of completely removing it.
I'd rather it just not be the go-to best strategy, but it may just be easier to remove it entirely.
I think the problem is that if you punish it too harshly through things like the gen mechanics or whatever they did, or by giving survivors a ton of bonuses off the hook, then it can be weaponized against a killer player who actively trying NOT to tunnel. And if they don't do enough, then it will always be one of the most effective strategies in the game, because there is no better slowdown then just removing someone from the game.
I think the easiest solution for BHVR is to just make it not possible and build the game balance around that.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027496#Comment_4027496
Apparently Stranger Things pulled the license again from dbd the chapter is gonna be no longer for sale again so my geuss is it ain't stranger things and more likely Jason
Man people really be out here just believing what random dudes on twitter with 100 followers say huh?
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4027587#Comment_4027587
The main problem with survivors in 2v8 is how the role is pretty much the same as it was in the second iteration.
We NEED new classes.
Really surprised they haven't added in a totem/boon class along with a hex class for killers.
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@Pulsar said:
Unless its a total or near total reversion, its gonna be bad.
Can't increase unique hook bonus without the punishments, but cant stop tunneling without offering real rewards for choosing not to tunnel.
They need to just give in and make tunneling someone out of the match not possible, then give actual rewards for hooking survivors through things like basekit pop/surge/pain res/whatever
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026956#Comment_4026956
It's actually worse than that.
The community screamed for months about haste stacking specifically… but only because they wanted MFT+hope gutted.
BHVR listened to that feedback and said they were addressing haste in general and people equally screamed, basically because they didn't want killers to be affected.
But hey, at least both MFT and hope have been nerfed now. #mission accomplished
MFT was a special case and needed to be nerfed.
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026656#Comment_4026656
That's my point(…?) People play the killer role because its the only way killer players can interact with each other, be it with randos or with friends. Yet, for whatever reason, people want the solution that to deal with queue time is to make that role miserable.
replied to the wrong person
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@JohnNemesisMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026532#Comment_4026532
I said that if a killer wins, they're more likely to win with the 8k (the stomp) than it is to tie with a 4k, I didn't say Killers are winning most of the matches because that's not what's happening at all in the current state of 2v8. I guess its also just okay to ignore the fact that survivors have consistently managed to get everyone to escape whenever they win.
Point is, right now, a lot of matches don't last very long. Its not fun to sit around a 20 min lobby only for a match to last 3-5 minutes.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4026630#Comment_4026630
The first 2v8 didn't have the overpowered survivor classes AND there was no way to save a downed survivor, yet queue times then were as long as it is right now.
It has been 5 2v8s since the first one where they diminished the killer role, added ways to save downed survivors, added very powerful classes for survivor, nerfed shadow, and even removed one of the kilers survivors were complaining about. And YET queue times haven't changed. Your argument holds no weight.The queue times are long because of the novelty. People aren't playing the killer role here because its OP.
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@UnicornMedal said:
Gens have to be able to go fast to keep up with 2 Killers. Gens can slow down, but to balance it fairly, you'd have to scale Killer down to compensate.
The thing though is they doubled the amount of killers and amount of survivors, but only increased the amount of gens needed to escape by 60% while more than doubling the amount on the map.
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@MrBuffalo said:
Obviously i'm not going to name the streamers who use them but every so often I'll go tune into a stream and the person who is streaming is using a reshader. First thing I always notice is how the blood, scratch marks always seem so unbelievably bright which makes it stand even more out of place against the darker floor or walls on maps. Even though they have been listed as "okay" to use by the devs how on earth is this not considered cheating? You are using a 3rd party to artificially make something easier to see.
I really would like to hear some thoughts on this.Yes
You are using a program that is not available to the majority of the player base in order to gain some kind of advantage over other players playing the game. That is by definition cheating.
That's not even accounting for the fact that you can use reshade to see things like red stain THROUGH WALLS that you normally wouldn't be able to see.
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@Dokta_Carter said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024758#Comment_4024758
Thank you for wording it better then I could.
I dont understand why people had disliked the emblem system so much and wanting to remove it, instead of refining it.
The only issues i had back then was how survivors lose out on emblem points if chased.
And
Those weir but super rare moments gens were flying so fast you'd prefer the gen speeds of today
Precisely, which is where refinement would come in, survivors would/should earn some level of points as a team and then have it split among the team so if 1 person is being chased for 5 gens, all the other survivors get some points to chase, and the one being chased gets some points for objective and survival.
Altrusim would probably need to be worked on a bit in some way because if the killer chaes 1 person you can't really do very many saves or healing of other people, so there would need to be some other mechanic for getting altruism points, but again, these are things they could tweak and figure out.
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@etisatis said:
Too many variables to consider to make MMR really work.
For survivors, the system would have to take into account things like:
- Generator repair time
- Number of gens completed
- Chase duration
- Successful unhooks
- Teammates’ total hook time
- Time spent healing others
- Time spent healthy
- Time spent injured without going down
- Other distractions for the killer (bodyblocking, taking hits, sabotaging, etc.)
Then, killer MMR could be balanced around how effectively they counter those factors.
But that’s just not achievable with the spaghetti code we have. We already saw how broken the logic can get when survivors started receiving DC penalties for being tunneled out early.Building a proper, logical relation between all these variables just isn’t something BHVR seems capable of right now.
So we’ll keep seeing experienced survivors in the same lobbies as weaker ones — supposedly to “balance” things. But in this game, a team’s real strength depends on how well its weakest member performs.
And for killers? Sometimes it’s a poor baby killer. Sometimes it’s a monster that gives you no chance — not just to come back, but to even play the match.
We literally had a system that did this in the emblem system. If they had just taken THAT system and refined it i think it would have worked better. The original system scored you based in 4 categories:
- Survival
- Whether you escape or not (and whether it is through the gates or the hatch)
- Altrusim
- Saving teammates and healing them
- Objectives
- Your ability to gens, cleanse hexes etc.
- Chase
- Your ability to run the killer for longer chases
All they had to do was refine the system a bit to not just be tied to bloodpoints, and change the scoring in a way that makes sense (I.E. if you are being chased, then you get some percentage of your teammates doing objectives and altrusim).
Then it could be based on a simple scoring system where you score each category by a certain amount, and then based on that score is how you performed.
A survivor who runs the killer for 5 gens, but still dies, should still be counted as a win if the rest of their team escapes.
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@AetherBytes said:
Match starts.
Survivors split and work on 4 gens. One gets found and gets chased.
At this point, from my observations, 3 gens almost always pop at the same time or very soon after the down
Here, 1 survivor on hook, 3 free.
If they just decide to crank a gen, and the next chased survivor can survive 90 seconds (or less depending on perks and time to travel) the other 2 gens can be popped and it's already end game. Even if the chased survivor now goes down, the other gets saved by one survivor and the last one opens a gate as the unhooked one gets healed, all at the cost of the stalled survivor going to death hook instead of just one hook. Even if killer abandons chase and hassles another gen, nothing stops the previously chased survivor just taking over the gen. If the previous chase went long enough, even if the new chase is shorter it wont be enough.
Suddenly, it's 3 healthy survivors, endgame with gates 99'ed/opened, and killer only has 2 hooks. 3 healthy survivors is enough to force an unhook (barring very specific killers, bubba being the only one who can guarantee there will be a price to pay for the unhook), take hits and block, and leave the game. Or just leave the first as a sacrifice and leave, and it's still considered a survivor win.
Now I understand that perks and powers can change this, but so can survivor items. Most forms of regression in the game are often not enough to save a gen if the survivors want it done, and while I understand not every squad is capable of doing this, the fact it's possible even with the killer making no mistakes (and even if the survivors make a few minor ones) makes me realize the balance is an absolute joke.
Yes, I know it doesn't happen every game, and in fact is rare that it would even play out like that, but a team dedicated to this, with at least 2 good chasers, can totally pull this off if they tried or get so close that they're still ahead by a mile. It also explains why gen regression is king, despite how pitiful it is, because no matter how bad it is, other perks cannot save even near that amount of time, with many of them even having penalties that make their bonuses pointless. Camping is a thing because killers simply cannot pressure gens in many cases in any effective manner, meaning their hook is currently the most important defence as it's the only time they can force other survivors into shorter chases. Tunneling stems from this too; every killer knows just how much the pressure they need to make drops the moment it becomes a 1v3, and in itself is the most effective form of gen regression; the complete elimination of a survivor's presence for the remainder of a match can save more than any regression perk when done early enough.
I want to clarify here that I am not excusing camping or tunneling, but once you realize just how little power a killer has you start to realize why many resort to it
It's also why killers like Nurse and Blight are the best. They cut out the most time consuming part of any trial; mobility and chase power.. The survivors can no longer reach that guaranteed "first hooked survivor will be fine" threshold and have to rescue now, slowing them down a lot and is the start of a snowball with a good killer.
Weaker killers, like Trapper or Hag (basekit) for example, just cannot compete with an ability that forces them to sacrifice time to setup, for the potential of no payoff or worse.
I wish I could end this post with suggestions or answers to fix this, but I'm truly stumped. Sure, turning up gen times would work, but then that means normal SWFs or solo queue become unable to win as well. Decreasing hook times back to 60 seconds per stage could maybe work, as that lost 20 seconds leaves only 0~10 seconds to save instead of 20-30, which is nigh impossible unless the killer is incompetent (in which case, it's overkill anyway)
And before someone comments it, yes, again, I know. This is not common place, but it's methematically possible especially against weaker chase/mobility killers, and with how bad the MMR system is, completely feasible to execute in a live match
What do you guys think?
This is true, also worse when you factor in that the devs balance for chases to last about 45 seconds. So they want you to do 8 45 second chases before you get your first kill. And then doesn't even factor in the time it takes to actually start the chase, nor the time it takes to pick up the survivor.
For me the biggest time sink i think people don'e realize is just how long it takes to actually hook a survivor:
- 2.7 second wipe animation
- "fiddle around" for about 1 second because for some reason the survivor always teleports around on the ground
- 3 second pickup animation.
- ~8 seconds on average to walk to a hook
- 1.5 second hook animation
Total time spend is about 15 seconds
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@The_singularity said:
mine was legion and that was looks alone
I started mostly with huntress. I also started back right around legion release for context. Of the 4 free killers at the time, nurse and billy were too hard to play at the start, and wraith was really bad which caused me to stick with huntress for a while. Since then i moved onto nurse though.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4024658#Comment_4024658
I don't think its as bad as others in the thread make it out to be, though I don't think its secretly S tier or anything like that. Pain res is going to beat it out on pure numbers, but also risk loss of time having to carry to a hook (possible sabos and body blocks). For Dying Light, you'll get it through however you want to play as long as its not chasing the obsession (which allows it to be combined with something like Play With Your Food when you already plan on ignoring the obsession). It can also make it harder for the survivors to pop the last gen, while Pain Res at that stage relies on finding a survivor you still have tokens for.
Of course, if the obsession brings a gen rush build, you're pretty cooked. And both styles of play require the killer to get downs early to have any impact.
Like a lot of perks in DbD it's risk/reward. You're almost certainly going to get some value from the perk, but in turn the reward is relatively low.
The baseline killer perk to compare anything to for time efficiency is deadlock. Deadlock has no activation requirement that requires the killer to do anything special and it always "just works" buying you 25 seconds of gen defense on 1 gen every activation for 4 activations. Pain resonance is slightly better because it synergizes better with other perks like DMS and it actually REGRESSES a gen instead of just blocking it, but as you said has some slightly harder activation requirements.
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@jamally093 said:
So I don't like using the meta and have seen it work against a killer. Where they got to use pain res maybe twice and never again since using it to early means you have a wasted perk slot, to late and you might not get to full on use it. So I being Oppression since I can get maybe three gen kicks in one and have seen it work maybe not the skill checks but the regression has helped and dying light since the obsession gets just healing and unhooking speed boosts and everyone else is punished against Deja Vu a personal meta for me by stake three of dying light you now effected by it. So I noticed if I wanna slow gen speeds just to bring dying light since as long as I know the obsession isn't gonna protect(fun most times as killer I rarely see people protect since they have flashlight) I can get some good slow down stakes on gens.
Its really not. 3% off of gens means that instead of taking 90 seconds, a gen takes 92.78 seconds. So for every hook, you make gens take 2.78 seconds longer. If you pair that against say pain resonance which will knock 80% off a gen and buys you a total of 72 seconds of time. Even assuming survivors just don't touch any gens during the time it takes you to build up stacks (because partially complete gens will knock off less repair speed) you'd need to get 6 hooks on non-obsessions in order to get the same time efficiency that you get from pain resonance. In reality, given that survivors will be doing gens while you are getting those hooks, it will never even come close to the time efficiency you get from most other gen perks.
Its a perk that you get when you want to win more. If it helps you, you were going to win anyway, so its not really helping you win more games.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
For Killers with persistent, unreasonably high ping:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9PY0LU57TTSQ/image.png
This is completely impossible to play against and the Survivors should be free to abandon in these situations. Hits connect from miles away, the Killer is practically warping around the map, and your entire game stutters when they try to grab or pick you up.
I understand not everyone has access to the best internet, but there comes a point where it's just downright unreasonable to expect people to play against you if this is your connection. Survivors should be free to Abandon the match if the Killer's ping remains at 200+ ms for a prolonged period of time.
Like I said, I'm not trying to punish people for occasional internet or server issues, but 800+ ping for the whole match is taking things too far and no one should be forced to play against that.
You realize the high ping here is hurting that killer more than it is helping them right?
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Very much so.
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@vol4r said:
BHVR!
why are you making BALANCED perk that convices people to go for the obsession (different guy that was not hooked/unhooked) a stealth perk?
Furtive chase was really balanced and somewhat good for synergies with friends till the end/nemesis?
This became one of my favorite perk after the buff, now you are killing effect that was so enjoyable for me!
I was playing save the best before the nerfs and the perk was somewhat killed for me and I do not use it anymore.
Why are we killing perks that literally convince people to play different way than 4 regression perks?
Why are we killing perk that TELL YOU NOT TO TUNNEL?!I am definitely not happy about the change. I really feel like my playstyle is getting killed off.
I don't want to play regression perks because that is just boring.
You are starting to give us no other choice because those perks are not gonna be good enough or relevant.So glad they changed furtive chase because it synergized too well with getting 5% haste the goes away when sneezing.
Also glad they made it so survivors can just get off the hook fully healed and unhook themselves in the basement fully healed. Very good.
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@The_Count said:
Don't know if this was already discussed before, but BHVR could balance killers a little bit by increasing or decreasing the number of pallets depending of the killer's tier.
Let's say that X map comes with 10 pallets by default and then if the killer is Trapper or Ghostface the game adds 3 or 5 more pallets, but if it's Blight or another high tier killer 10 or 12 extra pallets it is.
There are a lot of killers that if they got nerfed they would be more fair, but also feels like crap to play similar how playing as Chucky felt when he got his dash speed nerfed.
This way you could, for example, short the cooldown for Vecna's Mage Hand which would make play him feel better and more unique since you're also adding more pallets to him specifically.
AND of course this do not work with Nurse (what a shock, huh?).
To tone her down I think the only way is make her blind while charging blinks.I see this suggestion a lot. But here is my question for you.
If the devs already can't seem to balance killers, how does them balancing it by changing pallets change how unbalanced the game is? What i mean by that is, why would you trust the devs to do this right if they already can't balance the game properly? All this does is add yet another variable that the devs need to account for in balancing decisions and makes their job harder.
On top of tha,t they'd probably do it based on their data, and if they did that, nurse probably would have 0 pallets on the map since she's often the worst killer in the game. Guess sadako will have tons of pallets since she's usually one of the best.
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@dallonjay said:
With all the talk of slugging, since they introduced the killer being able to mori the last person on the ground after the the third survivor is on the hook, that s were i see it the most. Ill be on the ground, killer goes searching for the last survivor, and i lay there until i bleed out or the survivor is found. Get rid of this and you lose the incentive to leave someone on the ground. Ive been guilty of it as well but i think it would change the way killers behave
I think the whole hatch and "last survivor standing" mechanic sucks for both sides. I really wish they would completely rework it. My idea has been:
- Remove hatch from the normal map
- When there is 1 survivor remaining in the trial both the killer and the survivor are moved to a separate zone (think kind of like the halloween portals).
- Inside this zone:
- The survivor is healed to the healthy state
- All survivor items are disabled
- The killer moves at 115% movement speed
- All perks are disabled
- All killer powers are disabled
- Bloodlust is disabled
- A hatch spawns in the middle of the zone but is closed
- When the hatch opens, it cannot be closed by the killer
- If the survivor is able to survivor for 1-2 minutes (depends on how the map is balanced or how you want it to go), then the hatch opens automatically and the survivor is able to escape.
- If the killer downs the survivor automatically mori them
- Inside this zone:
Basically, turn the final "hatch standoff" thing, to just a simple 1v1 on a small little map where the survivor and killer don't have any crutches, or perks or anything to help them. Just a pure, simple 1v1. I think this would make it more fair for both sides and also make the endgame less of a "i got there first" type thing and actually have some real skill expression involved.
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@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021216#Comment_4021216
Imagine if you complain about questions that are completely eight in their POV.
huh?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4021114#Comment_4021114
When there's a survey that asks why someone uninstalled and it gives you a bunch of options and a box to fill in whatever you want and it's considered 'terribly killer-sided' because tunnelling is on the list as an issue, that's what it comes down to.
But the point is that even the question on these surveys is biased as hell.
For example, here is an example of question on the krasue survey:
And its on every killer release they ask this question. Now think bout the POV of the questions.
- The first one is neutral, both survivor and killer players could relavantly answer this question
- Second one is the same
- 3rd one is the same
But the 4th question is very survivor sided. Survivors are "given enough time". What does that mean? What if i think survivors are given TOO MUCH time to react to the killer power cues? What am i supposed to asnwer? If i answer "strongly agree" then it sounds like i think the time is perfect, if i say strongly disagree, it sounds like i think the survivors need MORE time.
This is just 1 question of many, but so many of these surveys have such biased questions toward survivor players, its no wonder their data collecting is so bad here.
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@Pulsar said:
All of the changes are underwhelming.
The whole update isn't going to fix anything, it just feels like they put something out there to say, "Here, we did something about it! Stop complaining!"
Totally agree with you on this one. I'm glad they removed the massive punishment for it, but these things don't really adress the core issues:
- The benefits aren't enough to not tunnel
- Survivors can still easily weaponize their protections to use against the killer offensively
- It doens't actually make tunneling weaker
The anti-camp stuff maybe thats nice its hard to say without testing, the slugging thing fixes the problem of multi slug kind of, but also i'd rather they did the neat idea that reddit had of 2 slugged survivors doing the "hand clasp" thing and picking each other up. So much more interactive, and team based and cool and not just "giving basekit unbreakable"
I really feel they need to just flat out make tunneling IMPOSSIBLE, i don't understand why they can't just, make the survivor just completely immune to everything (with restrictions of course), and then give killers actual basekit benefits for getting a hook, like pop (although i'd prefer pain res as that helps non-blight tier killers much better) and such to incentivize killers to actually hook the survivor.
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020666#Comment_4020666
Face camping was a repetitive and boring strategy that made the game a worse experience for all sides and the game is an objectively better place without it.
If you're pretending to not understand the issues with face camping I suspect you simply do not like actually playing Dead By Daylight.
I'm not disagreeing with that, i actually agree with the statement that the game is better off without it. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the definition of "handholding"