Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Aven_Fallen said:
This is fine IMO. I think it is a Perk which should not be used if you actually want to improve at the game, but it is better if the Perk is mainly used by M1-Killers who actually have to deal with Pallets and not by those who shred through them with their abilities.
"Why do killers only run a bunch of slowdown meta perks" - the post
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/464336/new-special-pallet-break-condition
They never could to begin with. For as long as I've played you've always needed to use the basic break
Incorrect, it has always worked with bubba and billy and such, so classic BHVR "Don't worry we are just updating perk descriptions and not changing anything" but also "actually we are changing things"
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057540#Comment_4057540
Yet the devs of the game of topic wanted this feature and added it to the forum, so apparently it does have a merrit, doesn't it? Or else, why add it.
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Back on topic @ OP yes, you can definitely make sure you have 3v1 or 2v1 asap, but you can do it by hooking person 1 then person 2, and then go back to person 1. That way you aren't tunneling the same person repeatedly the moment they're unhooked. Then it's all fair game imo, and the game is more fun for all involved.
And like so many other things, i think the devs are wrong.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057540#Comment_4057540
So you shouldn't be allowed to down vote something without writing an explanation? In what world does that make sense? Should you be allowed to upvote without comment?
I mean i think the concept of upvotes and downvotes are stupid in general. You ever watch The Orville?
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057529#Comment_4057529
Have you considered people read the OP's opinion and concluded they wouldn't be interested in an actual discussion so they didn't waste their time?
That may be true, but then they just shouldn't engage at all. Downvoting then leaving is cowardly and doesn't really make your opinion valid in that case.
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@EziekelAbh said:
So many downvotes even though it's true? This forums is weird asf.
Generally anything that is perceived as being "killer sided" tends to get downvoted here and on reddit. Simply due to the nature that there are statistically 4x as many survivor mains as there are killer mains. And people like to use downvotes when they don't like something someone says without actually engaging in a conversation with them because its easier.
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@Vlarian said:
Has anybody else found this happens? The first gens fly, then the next ones go gradually, then nobody touches a gen and everybody dies.
This is how the entire game works by design. Killers are weaker early on when there is more to patrol, but as the survivors finish gens, there are less of them to protect, leading to the killers being able to patrol a smaller area.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057177#Comment_4057177
His power was always the problem, not the zombies. The zombies have never been good for the game.
Then that's a candidate for a rework entirely. Which has nothing to do with 2v8.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057038#Comment_4057038
It's a slowdown unaffected by the scaling difficulty.
Yes it is, and nemesis has a power that is extremely weak in 2v8 because you have to hit survivors 3 times and they can cleanse it and there are a ton of chests.
The slowdown it provides is part of the power. Again, how is this any different than any other killer with an alternative objective that is designed to slow the game down? That is literally the purpose of the zombies in normal mode is to slow the game down slightly.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4057025#Comment_4057025
i mean, yeah if you spam the mode with barely any new features it will get old quick.
though i dont think it will help much if they added all the killer roaster and gave survivors nothing to play with.No, i mean the reason killer queues are so long is novelty because of being able to play killer as a friend. It's actually getting better each 2v8. Last one the killer queues were 25+ minutes. This one i'm regularly getting queues that are 17 minutes.
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@Philscooper said:
do you guys enjoy the killer queues?,
do you guys enjoy the mode being intentionally survivor sided?,
i dont mind if you want your killer to be in 2v8,
but we are in no position to add more killers on 2v8 without it making it worse for everyone involved.The problem with queues for 2v8 is the novelty.
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@Veroscis said:
I agree, they needed a stronger presence… but 4 zombies honestly "feels" like there's 8. "let me start th- nvm zombie, better lead it away…" finds pallet "sweet… another zombie cool… let me just leave this area" finds another gen far away* touches gen* "raaahrahh" rolls eyes "let me go get that guy out of cage oh nvm… let me drag this zombie away that was standing 4 ft next to the cage so i dont take a free viral" … here comes the killer bro… "someone else will get you out i gotta go" *3 minutes and a cage state later* "okay we've got 2 gens done so far, and 6 people left and 2 people on death, we still have a chance" let me get this g- "rhaaaa" "god damnit… here eat pallet" "ok… let me heal myself in this bu- "mrrmrrmerrrrrr" disconnects.
Next game, Flashlight, alright… im ready for zombies! Starts generator "errgaaah" … "Great… well at least i have this" blinds zombie* continues gen "raaaaah" "WHY IS YOUR SISTER HERE FFS! THERES 7 OTHER SURVIVORS!" I applaud that there was an attempt to slow gen prog for 2v8, but zombie simulator is crazy rn. 3 would have been enough.Think of it as a mechanic with any other killer. Having a survivor protect others against the zombies by distracting them, or killing them, or using a flashlight. Its no different than say, pig and removing traps, or sadako and doing tapes, or henry and listening to music. Its just now the zombies are an actual threat.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055853#Comment_4055853
I will speak from my personal experience here, I've played many matches the last few days, and not found anything remotely wrong with the pallets (only Midwich spawns) and same on many streams I watch. It's not about Devs being on Live, it's just that none of us have experienced this at all, which is why we've asked for logs if you do experience it in your game.
How do we get game logs?
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@ThatRyanB said:
I appreciate you grabbing footage of this! In the meantime, would you be able to elaborate on what you're specifically seeing in terms of the Survivor spawns? That would help us check if something odd's going on here.
Hey @ThatRyanB this is still occurring on the latest patch. This is now going on over 6 months now that this has been an issue. Do you have any information on it?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4055712#Comment_4055712
Which top tier survivor can I buy and get easy wins like Ghoul? Because talking about individual player skill is not remotely the same as talking about built-in character abilities.
The data that BHVR has released on the matter shows that ghoul isn't even in the top 5 of killers. And the unofficial data shows him not even being in the top 10.
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@azaxydbd said:
as a person that play on both sides equally i dont mind this change, killers already have bloodlust and lots of tools to win games and get free hits, some content creators going on perkless streaks on killers so i dont see the problem at making maps more balanced, u could say more pallets = unbalanced, yea if u consider the lowest tier killers, which could just be buffed instead, they recently fixed nurse bug, and u can still play all those top tier killers. as long as those exist, maps should be balanced around them.
If we balance around the top killers why are we not also balancing around the top survivors?
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@XsashagreyX said:
Almost every dbd player agrees on one thing, the game is unbalanced and it's getting worse every chapter they add. What do you think the core problems are, and how would you balance the game so that both side is fair and fun to play?
TLDR:
- Make tunneling and camping not possible
- Give killers more basekit gen defense and nerf or rework the perks
- Give survivors some basekit ways to deal with slugging
- Give solo queue survivors a little more information on their teammates.
- Slow down the early game and speed up the end game.
Tunneling + Camping fix:
- Remove basekit BT
- Remove AFC mechanic
- Add new mechanic called Ethereal that survivors gain when unhooked.
- While ethereal:
- The world gets a grey filter (think otherworldly or ghostly like going back to your body in WoW)
- Survivor makes no noise
- Survivor makes no scratch marks
- Survivor is completely invisible to the killer
- The killer makes no noise to that survivor
- The killer's terror radius is not audible for that survivor
- The killer is completely invisible to t hat survivor
- All perks on the survivor are disabled
- Killer powers and perks do not affect the survivor
- Killer cannot hit the survivor
- Think like, spirit's power but for
- The survivor is unable to perform any conspicuous actions (other than unhooking a survivor or healing a survivor from the dying state) Doing those 2 actions remove Ethereal early
- Lasts for 32 seconds
- If ethereal is removed early, nothing happens
- If ethereal expires, the survivor is healed to the healthy state
- Replace the AFC mechanic with one that works like Pyramid head cages. If a killer hangs out near the hook (even if other survivors are nearby) the survivor is automatically teleported to the took that is closest to the survivor that is furthest from the killer.
- Remove/rework all the anti-tunnel/anti-camp perks to do something else.
- This makes tunneling literally impossible
- This makes camping literally impossible
- This encourages killers to hook instead of slug because the survivor is put on a 32 second timeout where you know they won't be working a gen.
Give killers more basekit gen defense:
- Basekit pain res that doesn't require a scourge hook that knocks 10% progress.
- Basekit gen kick up to 10% for kicking a gen
- Basekit highlight gen with most progress in yellow when hooking
- Basekit 15% thanataphobia on gens for injured survivors so they are encouraged to heal instead of rush gens
- Basekit corrupt that lasts 20 seconds
- Basekit corrupt on totems (or just make hexes not spawn until they are activated like some of the newer ones)
- Massively nerf or completely rework all of the gen defense perks
Give survivors basekit information and anti-slugging:
- WGLF endurance becomes basekit (minus the healing speed)
- Survivors get kindred basekit (minus the killer aura reading)
Slow down the early game while speeding up the endgame.
- Make the number of charges it takes to repair a gen start high, but decrease based on the number of gens done, but equal to the same time.
- For example:
- 5 gens: 135 seconds
- 4 gens: 110 seconds
- 3 gens: 90 seconds
- 2 gens: 70 seconds
- 1 gen : 45 seconds
- When a gen is repaired, all gens take less charges (take away the charges from completed progress so you don't have 5 gens all pop at once)
- Rework gen INCREASE perks and toolboxes to work based on percentages (basically, they are more effective early on, and less effective later)
- Because gen defense is percentage based, this makes gen defense stronger early on, but weaker later where 3 genning is more of a problem. This also makes 3 genning far less effective because you only have to repair the gen for half the time on the last gen. It also slows down the early game so you aren't losing 2-3 gens in the first chase.
From there you have solved the following problems at a BASE level (not with bandaid fixes or perks, but core design):
- Tunneling is no longer a problem
- Camping is no longer a problem
- 3 genning is (probably) no longer a problem
- The early game now actually exists for killer
- The late game doesn't feel like a killer can draw it out massively as much anymore
- Killers aren't forced to bring gen defense perks and balance the game around it
- Survivors aren't forced to bring anti-tunnel perks and balance the game around it.
- Slugging is massively nerfed/discouraged because killers get a ton of benefits from hooking survivors.
From there, now that the base core game is fixed, you give it some time, collect some data, and then start looking at individual killers and see if you can nerf/buff them based on the changes. Likely you'd probably see ones like nurse, ghoul, blight etc. would need to be nerfed, and some of the weaker ones like trapper, skull merchant, ghost face etc. would need buffs.
But the point there is you would have a healthy base to build off of that removes all the annoying BS that everyone hates.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463830/mmr-rework-questions-and-opinions
It would be nice to not see prestige 100 killer when I'm mediocre survivor player on a good day. But i worry about the queue times.
Prestige =/= skill
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4054586#Comment_4054586
He will drop in time as wesker did and many others.
Wesker didn't drop really in so much as they fixed a few of his things like tunneling being extra strong, and since the loops have changed. We now have far more short loops where his power is effectively useless at.
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@BongoBoys said:
Enough time has past it's time to discuss if the First is OP or not now what drived me to make this post was cause I've seen talk from creators like Otz and Hens saying he's not Op and actually exhaustion perks destroys the First and that exhaustion perks need to be nerfed.
What do you think?
Solid upper B tier probably, might go up to lower A tier as people get better playing as him. Tough to say though too early for that.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053906#Comment_4053906
I'd be surprised if there were enough 4mans active at all times on all servers to sustain an entire mode. Even with a reasonably large friend pull it's hard to get four people together at the same time.
I think if they advertised it as a mode you can play and had unique ranked rewards and tools in place to help you find your team to play with it would be big enough to get people to play. Also DBD claims to have 60 million monthly active users i'm sure their are plenty of 4 mans.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053905#Comment_4053905
Are any of those asymmetrical?
Can you explain how a game being asymmetrical makes it so different that having a casual mode is impossible or leads to players for some reason deciding to play far more sweaty in a casual mode than they do literally any other video game on the planet?
Like, what properties of the game being asymmetrical impact this idea?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053906#Comment_4053906
That leaves trios out completely, and they're more common that quads are.
The vast vast majority of mutliplayer games do it this way. It isn't as hard for a trio to pick up another player to play with if they want to do a SWF. There's also potential options there of having the fun rotating game mode for the 3 people to play and you can meet up and pick up your 4th from there.
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@BongoBoys said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053421#Comment_4053421
Kinda funny that perk tiers are a load baring wall and if we get rid of tiers it all destroy dbd as we know it
Software Engineering can be complicated. Usually due to trying to balance quality vs speed in terms of implementing things.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think it would work on a limited time basis. Have a 3 or 4 week competitive queue and have skins or badges as rewards. Maybe even something akin to legacy cosmetics. I don't know that it would attract as many players if it was permanent.
One thing I would like is basekit info modifiers for solos in a ranked mode. Base Kindred, that type of thing. Bridge the gap a bit between SWFs and solos.
It would be fun to see how far I could take Skull Merchant, or how high I could climb as a solo player.
I think for balance sake it would actually be better to just not have solos in the ranked mode.
Casual mode is for solo queue, or duo (with only 1 duo max per game).
Ranked mode is 4-man SWF only.
Then it becomes much easier to balance the modes.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I think a casual mode makes no sense at all. Because as you said, people will just sweat in the casual mode because they expect weaker opponents.
We already see this with Events which are supposed to have fun interactions - some players dont care at all about the event interactions and just play as sweaty as possible. And a casual mode would result in exactly that behavior and I think it would be even more frustrating for casual players, because if they queue up in the casual mode, they would expect to not play against sweaty players.
Why does casual mode work in other games though? League has a casual mode, CS2 has casual modes. And there isn't an issue of "sweat" there.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053842#Comment_4053842
Who said they need nerfed to pigs level lmao, Weskers level of mobility is where I want them all to be at, I feel he is the right amount of powerful for a mobility killer.
Bugs shouldn't be a factor when it comes to balance.Wesker's power is mathematically not great at mobility.
Weskers movement speed during the bound is 14 m/s the first one lasts 0.5 seconds, the second one lasts 1 second. That means he travels 21 meters in 1.5 seconds. However, do do that he has to:
Charge up the power for 1.5 seconds, lowering movement speed to 3.68 m/s, then afterwards enter cooldown for 3 seconds where he moves at 2.76 m/s.
This means that for a total of 0.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 3 seconds, he moves 34.8 meters. which is 6.5 seconds. If he just walked at 4.6 for 6.5 seconds, he would gain 29.9 meters.
So using his power gains him 4.9 meters of distance. Keep in mind that a full killer lunge from not moving is about 6 meters. So he gains less than a lunge.
So, yes he gains some distance. But not really so much distance that it is worth not having his power for the next 6-12 seconds (takes 6 seconds to gain one charge back). Its better to just run toward the survivor and use your power in the chase.
Nurse is also similar, people sometimes thing she's a mobility killer, but her power is actually quite horrible for map traversal especially when you lose access to your power on a killer that basically requires the power to land a hit.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053170#Comment_4053170
I don't know, could you imagine if there was a perk, perhaps more than one, or even killer powers, that let a killer cut through survivor health states. The survivor EXPerience wOuld be Substantially alterED.
Its a shame most of those perks are extremely niche and have very short timers or ridiculous activation requirements or are able to be removed (Hexes).
Now if there was a perk that was like: "When survivors complete a gen for 60 seconds they are all exposed, deactivates when a survivor is downed" then maybe you'd be able to compare that.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
Survivor Counterplay.
Hard-tunnel from the start has been the de-facto playstyle for many lately. I believe a lot of it stems from certain content creators, who has dipped their toes into the competitive scene, who makes others believe that it is the ONLY viable strategy to win games, even in public matches.
Now, tunneling has always been present in the game, but in 2022, when patch 6.1.0 dropped, that is when it got taken to a whole new level, since the survivors lost a lot of the counters they had to tunneling. And with the killer powercreep that has been ongoing for a while now, the problems are only getting worse, since it gets much easier to do. This in turn has prompted the survivors to optimize everything fun out of their gameplay, and stick to gens like flies on horse-dung, which has made the survivor gameplay loop incredibly stale.
Also, on the killer side, before 6.1.0, you had perks like the original BBQ, which gave a BP bonus, that also served as an incentive to spread hooks early on, in order to guarantee the bonus.
One counter I have seen is to have teammates with Shoulder the Burden. I escaped a hard-tunnel thanks to a random teammate with StB. The Nemesis player was so angry afterwards.
Other than that, I would say that the only other counters to tunneling would be the usual suspects, like Decisive Strike, Dead Hard and perks that takes away your scratchmarks, and those that makes you silent.Aura read is a whole other can of worms, and it has only gotten worse and worse with time, with several perks on either side enabling this.
- If you know that the killer has aura perks, you'd use lockers a lot more to block the aura reads.
- If you as a killer knows that the survivors has aura read on you, make sure to never chase them in areas with a lot of LoS blockers.
- Perks like Friends till the End and Alien Instinct is highly problematic, since it often enables tunneling, where the fresh unhooked survivor gets targeted by it.Game Health.
A good incentive would be to revert BBQ, and change some of the hook based perks to give bonuses based on unique hooks.
Take Pain Resonance for example. A good way to change it would be to change the current token based system from starting with 4 tokens of 25% regression each, to zero tokens at the start, with a base 8% regression on the first hook, increasing by 4% for every unique hook afterwards, up to a maximum of 20% that will trigger on every unique hook afterwards. These tokens would stay if you keep rotating hooks. However, if you decide to tunnel someone, you'd instead get a negative token, and if you tunnel someone out before hooking someone else, the perk gets disabled for the remainder of the trial.
This is a more healthy way of making the 1v4 potentially stronger, and the 1v3 potentially weaker.
This approach could also work with perks like Grim Embrace, by keeping the current effects for unique hooks, and also add on the 10 second block for every unique hook afterwards, but with the caveat that the perk disables if a survivor dies by normal means (suicides does not count).Another perk that I have had an idea for a change to would be Hex: Ruin.
Instead of starting as a lit totem, it would instead activate once the first survivor gets hooked, and gets progressively stronger through tokens, gained from unique hooks.
First hook: A random dull totem gets lit, placing the Hex onto it. The curse causes generators not being worked on to regress automatically at 60/80/100% normal regression speed.
Second hook: Regression is increased to 75/100/125% speed.
Third hook: Regression is increased to 90/120/150% speed.
Fourth hook: Regression is increased to 105/140/175% speed, and the repair skillchecks becomes Cursed (red).
Cursed skillchecks require you to hit a Great skillcheck (with a 50% increased window) in order to continue repairing. Hitting a good skillcheck will cause the progress to halt for 2 seconds.
This totem then deactivates when the first survivor dies by normal means.Changing these perks would definitely help incentivicing a more hook-oriented playstyle.
Another way to combat tunneling would be to disable the unhook notification sound. That way, a killer who is actively chasing someone, won't necessarily drop chase to go back to the freshly unhooked survivor, unless they keep staring at the HUD all the time.
Feedback.
I would say that these forums are probably the best place to leave constructive feedback for the game devs.
Only encouraging not tunneling and not punishing tunneling won't stop people from tunneling. There is no slowdown that is more effective then just removing the survivor from the match and creating a 1v3 as fast as possible. However. I also don't think they should "punish" tunneling, because doing so just leads to situations that survivors can abuse it (I.E forcing the killer to tunnel you by body blocking)
The solution needs to be, make tunneling impossible, while buffing killers with basekit gen defense and slowdown to compensate (basekit BBQ/Pop/painres etc.) ideally something like pain res over pop, or it just benefits blight/nurse/ghoul more than say trapper.
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@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4052900#Comment_4052900
Not for free, anyway
DS is literally a free perk now.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051282#Comment_4051282
Consider the following:
"I almost spun the Killer but they use a mouse with a high DPI."
"I almost lost the Killer but they use headphones instead of built-in TV speakers and heard my directional audio."
"I almost lost the Killer but they adjusted the colour and contrast settings of their TV."
"I almost hit that Survivor but they play at a higher FPS than me and were able to react with less input delay than I can."
"I almost dodged that hatchet but the Huntress player drew a crosshair on their screen."
"I almost lost the Killer but they have better-than-average vision and saw something most people would miss."
Filters don't allow you to see anything that isn't already displayed by the game. They just enhance what is already there in a way so much modern hardware can do innately these days. If we're banning Reshade, should we ban modern monitors and TVs that have built in settings for colour filters, brightness, contrast, saturation, etc.? If yes, then how would they actually ever enforce that?
The developers sensibly understand that policing this is not worthwhile because it's an arbitrary line in the sand and completely unenforceable.
If it bothers you considerably then you already have an option to avoid playing with PC players.
Try turning off crossplay and queueing up. Let me know how many hours it takes before you get a match.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051176#Comment_4051176
Shouldn't be bannable since the devs white list it through EAC. But it shouldn't be allowed for how much of an advantage it gives
Should be bannable because it gives you an advantage over players who won't or can't (console) use it.
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@OrangeBear said:
It's because the endurance effect has a short delay when being unhooked so that it starts when you regain movement. Usually during this period you're invulnerable anyway but i guess vecna's attack goes through this so thats probably what they need to address
This is incorrect. It's because the mori ignores endurance. So if you have 4 stacks and are on death hook and get hit, you will be put in a moriable state. Probably because it doesn't count as a "hit" but it probably changes the state of the survivor.
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@Trex_Crazy said:
So since the basekit endurance from unhooks was added I've noticed that I actually end up "tunneling" more often. Since we've got it survivors are very eager to get the save on a hooked survivor to the extent that often I won't even have enough time to walk away from the hook before someone saves them. This is further compounded by the fact that you can't grab survivors off the hook save anymore. It's a common occurrence either I'll hook someone and they're immediately going to save or I'll be chasing someone and because of the aforementioned changes they figure theyll just go for the save while they're at it. So theyll get to the hook and save them. Now at this point they've gotten the save and both survivors are up, the saved survivor now runs into me/inbetween me and the survivor to take a free hit. At which point endueance or no youve gotten in front of me, youve got my attention, I guess I'll just chase you then. Or they got the save and the saver is down. Now I could just hook the saver, and depending on how the game is going I might, or I can have more pressure by chasing the unhooked survivor. Now when it first came out I was initially against base kit endurance but honestly I think its great for killer. A survivor with a hook state is going to willingly run into me and take a free debuff that makes it harder for them to see? Of course I'm going to chase you after that youve just gimped your self willingly.
Precisely why it should be removed entirely (BT can still be a thing as a perk that is fine) and rework it so they have 0 collision and you can just swing right through them, that way they can't body block for a teammate and they can't take any kind of damage from the killer so they can't be tunneled as easily (like say with a leatherface)
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@Zaya said:
I like the cool event but the killer seems very overpowered. He can travel with a shadow and when he comes up he can attack at the same time.
The killer is on the stronger side (still probably high B low A tier), but the example you gave is literally the weakest thing about him and is 100% avoidable if you pay attention.
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@Reue said:
Lowkey the only reason I kinda play the game is bc I like to do the tomes, it feels rewarding everytime I finish one + I get a cool charm or a background and stuff ( I most or the time don't use it but it just makes my brain go "ohhh we get something for doing this stuff" so I actually might stop playing dbd if I finish all the tomes... gonna take my money to more rewarding games lol
sick necro
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@HommeBizarre said:
After 10 years, it would be really cool if the game could have MM per regions. At least for the base game, maybe not the events idk.
First, it could avoid us being with laggy people.Second, it could avoid us being with people who has the reputation to be toxic.
Why does DBD lack this feature?
It does.
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@BongoBoys said:
Ghoul has been nerfed for whatever reason apparently being able to cancel mid leap was a bug they NEVER noticed or fixed since his launch ptb. Will this solve all the frustration people have against him? Not really in my opinion it's due to his design.
"Fixed an issue where The Ghoul was able to cancel mid-swing while Kagune Leaping to a Survivor, bypassing part of the recovery."
That line is not doing what you think it is doing.
Its specifically only preventing it when grabbing a survivor, which was a difficult but possible thing to do that would let you double hit really quickly.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049744#Comment_4049744
Trust me, I get it as I come from fighting games as well, I was just kinda clarifying that the way people are given statistics and how they digest them doesn't match that type of matchup analysis system. With fighting game matchups they would change a lot with evidence of how pros would handle things in tournaments, which is a great way to expand the understanding of what characters have and what they go against. DBD stats are used as argument fodder, and anything that contradicts them, regardless of how true, often gets discarded as unsubstantiated since it opposes the perception caused by putting outcome above all else. Its essentially another consequence of ignoring the journey for the destination, which is why I mentioned about Nurse's stats being one of the few times people are willing break their dogmatic view of official stats. Nurse's strengths side with their preconceived opinion more than the statistics, yet they might also refuse to acknowledge that she emphasizes the importance of nuance in assessments.
Nurse is basically proof as to why the official stats are useless.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049707#Comment_4049707
Just in case its part of the misunderstanding, outcome focused grading works inherently different from matchup focus (tools and abilities with the skill element removed from the equation) so I feel like some people might not quite get what you mean, but I getchu. It can be hard to remove those types of things from the equation even though its a bit of a standard with many other genres in terms of rating comparisons. Since that type of data doesn't represent official stats, it can be a bit harder to digest (especially when contradicting them, like the famous Nurse kill rate) if not familiar with that type of matchup analysis.
I come from fighting games, and that is the closest comparison we can get in DBD because of the asymmetry. Yeah i like Street fighter you look at that matchup for each character against each other character. But we don't have that. So what we do is the best we can with DBD. And when you look at matchups and tier lists and fighting games, you don't look at how good necessarily the players are. If you are low MMR in those games but a bad matchup that isn't going to mean as much in those games. This is precisely why tier lists in those games look at "What is the maximum capability of this character when played at the optimal level?" So in DBD terms, you assume that the tools and abilities being brought are the best tools for the job.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049565#Comment_4049565
I think all are viable here on high mmr but wesker is tricky one he needs the egg addon and the player needs to minimaly control hug tech on command here but I would argue that instahugs are more needed here because wesker without them is just like 60-75% of the match m1 killer due to how his dashes work plus egg addon is must here without it you wont do much.
From those you mentioned the rest well it would be long to comment that who is good and who not but its highly dependent on player like onepumpwillie can win with perkless sadako or with perks against super good survivors but the amouth of skill and focus he needs to have is like super big and with same other killers like larry could achieve it minimaly 3x times faster (that win).
But against teams that are like comp level only few killers are viable like even good huntresses become just joke and killers like demo are just dogs without power against these teams.
Please read the entire post and it explains the reasoning for the list.
TLDR (because apparently you didn't): If you took the best killer player in the world for each killer, and pit them against best 4 survivors in the world and had them play each other on the same map with the same mapgen/RNG (and we assume its a "balanced" map) and they played 100 games, i would make the tiers based on the outcome of those 100 games.
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@Junylar said:
It's been like this for ages, and it's intentional, because survivors asked them to make it safe to farm at the killer's face, so they were happy to oblige. It's similar to the basekit BT and came to life about the same time, although for some reason it was never announced.
Look at my post count. Now know that i have over 4000 hours. I know that it has always been a thing. But before this patch it was easily avoidable by swinging around the hook, but my point is that you can't even do that anymore it seems.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049565#Comment_4049565
Thank you for your personal ratings. I won't try to debate them because they are your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I will say that from my experience both as survivor and killer, I have a completely different list which has quite a bit more killers above C tier, but this definitely sheds some light on your stance on the matter.
Games vary based time you play, region and mmr. But in my experience this is how it works out for my games and the games i'm in when i play both sides. If i see any kill as a survivor other than one of those, more often than not we are escaping, even in solo queue.
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@Suei said:
Low MMR things
You have it backwards.
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@Venusa said:
Chaos Shuffle honestly just highlights how useless most survivor perks are when you’re being aggressively tunneled.
It doesn’t matter what random perks you get, you don’t even have the chance or time to use them if the killer is determined to remove you from the match ASAP. What’s supposed to be a fun, chaotic experience of discovering and experimenting with perks turns into the same bullcrap 5-minute games where you barely get to play.
You queue up after work hoping for something at least fun, and instead your time is wasted: load into a match, then get tunneled out immediately like the killer’s life depends on it. Rinse and repeat.
Modes like Chaos Shuffle are proof that killers don’t need incentives, MMR, or rewards to tunnel, they do it simply because they can. The devs have shown time and time again that this playstyle is promoted, and ultimately ignored. You can nerf or buff perks all you want, but killers will still tunnel even when there’s no reason to “win” or climb MMR.
Sorry to say, but survivor gameplay is miserable, and Stranger Things Part 2 isn't going to cut it.
It exposes that the game is balanced around killers bringing slowdown perks on the gens, and survivors bringing anti-tunnel perks to stop the tunneling. Hence why tunneling/camping need to go, and slowdown needs to be made more basekit on killer while nerfing the perks.
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@Philscooper said:
No ghoul nerfs...?
Guys, cmon its been 9 months...hes still the most hated killer since skull-merchant got released.
We really have to bring out the "everyone dc's against this killer",
until bhvr acts, dont we?.
I dont know what else we are supposed to do, feedback doesnt work, even content creators and fog-members said he is not healthy the way he is.
No one likes being injured for free with no effort, through the wall, while having more chase mechanics on top of it.
No one likes going against ghoul when other killers do more effort for less.
Why would they nerf a killer who has a kill rate that is barely above the average?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049515#Comment_4049515
I am asking for YOUR opinion. You say there are only 5 killers that are viable at high MMR. Is that from your experience or from what the comp scene wants you to believe is true?
Stop bringing up comp, i brought that up specifically to address a different point and to a specific person and not to you. And it has nothing to do with the rest of this discussion.
To answer your question, in general at high MMR i would say the tier list is as follows:
S Tier:
- Nurse
- Blight
A Tier:
- Ghoul
- Dracula
- Billy
B Tier:
- Singularity
- Spirit
C Tier:
- Lich
- Twins
- Wesker
Unviable:
- Everyone else
There might be a handful of other killers that can do into C tier, personally i main a handful of killers but generally play all of them a bit to at least understand them. And so this is based on my own experience with each of the killers. But perhaps there's someone who is just so good with one of the "unviable" killers that they prove it can be done. I don't know everything so i just have to base it on my own experience with the killers.
But generally i see it as, S, A, and B are all viable. C tier is really only viable if like, you are literally like, top 10 in the world at the killer, and then even the best trapper player in the world aint winning against a top team.
Yes, given the nature of DBD, that doesn't mean its impossible for the "unviable ones" to win. Just like with any tier list and due to the nature of RNG, and human interaction and the fact that mistakes can occur on both sides, of course its going to change.
But lets say you pick up every killer in the game, and had the best player for that killer in the world, play against the best 4 survivors in the world for a 100 matches on the same map with the same tiles and RNG generation. What would the result be?
I'd guess that the S tiers would probably win around 60-70% of the matches. A Tiers would win around 60-65% of their matches. B tier would win around 45-55% of the matches. C tier would win around 40-50%, and below that would be from around 0-40% of the matches, with several killers being super low (like trapper or skull merchant).
The way i see it is, if you can't win half your games in that scenario (because ideally against equally skilled opponents you should win 50% of the time) then the killer is not viable because you are going to lose more than you will win.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049091#Comment_4049091
Isn't there restrictions for killers as well? Certain perks are not allowed on certain killers and so on. That sort of thing
There are some restrictions on killers, but usually those are due to the perk creating a boring match (I.E. NOED) and less about them being OP. For example with old myers the addon for insta kill was restricted. But any person who plays comp will tell you that it wasn't because it was OP, it was because it was boring, every just immediately jumps in a locker and the addon never actually gets used anyway and just leads to the match being really boring.
When you look at survivors the restrictions are much more heavy handed. And again it also depends on the killer played. There's a big difference between the reason that NOED is banned say vs multiple survivors being able to run DS
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049093#Comment_4049093
No one brought up comp dbd to mean high MMR. Comp is its own separate thing and shouldn't be considered when talking about balance. Could you also provide your list of killers you think are not viable and those that are? I'm genuinely curious as to where you place killers like singularly or billy.
I brought up comp as a separate thing, you need to really pay attention and not just find a buzzword and say "THEY SAID COMP NOW EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS INVALID"
As for viable killers there's plenty of lists floating around and simply just look at the comp rules and find which ones have massive restrictions on survivors and which ones don't.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4049000#Comment_4049000
I also don't understand why people always try and argue using "top MMR" as a statement, when they have no way to know if they are Top MMR in the first place.
The matchmaking feels like the wild west at times.I didn't bring up MMR, someone else did when ghoul was brought up and it was brought up that ghoul is at like #8 in terms of kill rate. Then the reply said "that's at average MMR" which is what brought MMR into the discussion.
To which i'm stating that, if you balance the game at top MMR you must contend with the fact that the game is horribly balanced at that level and the vast majority of killers are not viable. Which even the most survivor main apologist content creators understand and agree with.
Nowhere did i say anything about how I was in "top MMR" or anything like that. I am simply stating facts about the game.