Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988409#Comment_3988409
You don't know what that player was thinking.
Welp, what info can we all gleam off of Leon, who he wanted immediatly while smacking him on the hook a few times for good measure? What can we infer from the Nancy, who the Clown watched crawl and bleed out? What can we guess from the clown pointedly ignoring the bot and hunting the map, possibly for yours truely? You really believe they we're giving us a chance to escape? Think it was the best way to secure a win leaving people to do gens? Or maybe the simplest answer fits best? Occam's razor is a favorite for a reason.
The point is though, you immediately went to the "well he tunneled" argument or "well he slugged and didn't pick up what a loser".
You missed the point completely or are ignoring it. The point is you CAN be toxic while playing the game, especially when that game gives you as much freedom as DBD does. You say its the developer's fault, but whos choosing to do these actions? Look above, was it the best tactic for winning to watch Nancy as a slug? Leon was dead at the time, coulda hooked to use his perks or something, coulda went hunting for one of the other 2 to leave Nancy as an anchor one of us woulda needed to get. We got a free gen+ outta it instead. Slugging is a valid strategy, that can be used in ways like this to make others miserable and deemed "toxic".
DBD doesn't "know" about tunneling, it doesn't "know" anything. All it knows is, did i win the game, or did i lose?
DbD is also made of real people with real thoughts, emotions, etc. Those people can know how they lost, what that feeling is, was the loss fun or boring, etc. Dbd itself isn't toxic, its what people often do in it, including using strategies in it to make others miserable, which is usually deemed "toxic" (by the entity lets see how many times i can hammer this)
Ironically, such a complaint you have should again be lodged at the devs.
Been here before, aint the devs fault. Again, dbd has alot of freedom, people being ****s with the freedom is on the players, which is why we are often vocal about our dislike of the people.
I'd guess you are the type of person who would hate playing say MTG, and be mad because "the opponent countered my spell" or "they removed my creature" when those things are literally designed specifically to do that very thing.
Funny thing is the three of us love playing mtg. Rakdos and Mardu specifically. Thing is, you can still be "toxic" while using valid things (ya know, the point of our whole argument). Possibly literally with Phyrexia.
Well smacking the player could easily be a form of trying to rile the player up to cause them to make mistakes. Like, idk, survivors teabagging a killer when they drop a pallet? Or some other thing? As for the other stuff, see my above post. Toxicity in gaming has a hard definition where behavior in game is really only applicable as it relates to griefing. And griefing in DBD has hard defined rules clearly stated on their support site, as it is a reportable category in the report system. And everything you stated here is actually CLEARLY defined as "NOT REPORTABLE" in another article. Thus, not griefing.
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988452#Comment_3988452
The problem here is that you're using "toxicity" as meaning abusive behavior. Toxicity in gaming doesn't have a rigid definition, but generally describes a person who causes negativity through their words and actions.
Choosing to play a game in a way that is known to make that game miserable for the other players would in fact be toxic behavior. It being allowed is irrelevant.
Toxicity in gaming refers to malicious or hostile player behavior that disrupts the online environment and harms other players, ranging from verbal abuse like hate speech and harassment to behavioral misconduct such as griefing (disrupting gameplay for others) and doxing (sharing private information). This behavior creates an unpleasant and unsafe atmosphere, often escalating due to factors like player anonymity, competitive pressure, and the contagious nature of negative actions within a community.
I'm sure you'll mention "griefing" but "griefing" has a specific definition related to things like in MMOs such as scamming people out of items, or intentionally getting them killed while they are playing hardcore etc. Things that are in those games explicitly also against the TOS.
In DBD terms, griefing is also defined: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586278676-How-to-report-a-player
Griefing
Use this option to report a player for intentionally using abilities or game mechanics to the detriment of the game. Examples: Taking the game hostage, body blocking, working with the Killer.
They even go a step further and specifically state that things that you are considering "toxic" are not griefing or reportable behavior here:
https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408586353940-Invalid-report-reasons
THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT CONSIDERED BANNABLE OFFENSES - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT:
Camping*
Slugging
Tunneling
Stream sniping
Teabagging
Body blocking**
Looping
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@Destaice said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988409#Comment_3988409
That's a really dumb comparison.
First all players in a game of MTG are on an equal playing field. It's a symmetrical game.
Second, you can make decks that are legal to play, but make the game absolutely miserable to play. And its perfectively fine to criticize people who play like that.
Just because you are allowed to do something does not mean you are immune to criticizism or that we cannot have a discussion about it. And it's this toxic attitude of acting like other players don't matter in a multiplayer game that makes these discussions so volatile. You wanna criticize survivors, but think survivors cannot criticize you.
Tunneling early makes the match 1 sided. It immediately snowballs the game in the killer's favor with no catch up for survivors to counter with. And because 1 sided stomp games aren't fun, people don't like them. It's not quantum mechanics, it's fairly easy to understand why people feel so negative about tunneling. You just choose to ignore the community in a community driven game.
See, there's the difference, you are talking about criticism, which is fine. But "toxicity" is a very specific term which generally is about someones behavior. I.E calling you racial slurs at the end of the game.
My main point is simple though. If you feel some type of playstyle or "strategy" is "toxic" then you should be complaining to the developers that allow it to happen, not the players who use it. The players who use it are just doing what the game allows them to do.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988309#Comment_3988309
There is nothing wrong with utilitizng a strategy that exists in the game.
So let me tell you a story (alternatively you can skip the next 3 paragraphs but I think you're missing out).
There was a game a couple weeks ago, Clown at Coldwind (the one with the slaughter house specifically). Team included me, a Nancy, a feng, and a leon running a memeish build (weaving spiders). Surprisingly no one quit at the first minute (leon set off spiders within the minute probably started near basement) until feng heard the terror radius (or the bottle breaking) and noped out via DC. The match went semi normal till Leon was caught being a hero (for reference, me and leon both had to go down the basement to rescue Nancy before she hit second due to him camping and the bot not giving him a reason to not camp. Leon snuck past when I went down to try for Nancy and got us both). All the match before this shouldn't be considered toxic by most. It's what follows.
Clown got bored of camping and started looking for people, found Nancy again and chase they go. As soon as the bot unhooked leon, clown goes straight back. Leon soon dies tunneled after his hooks with the clown hitting him on hook each time (neither me nor Nancy got that treatment). Sometimes after leon dies clown catches Nancy, but the oddest thing happens. She doesn't get hooked. Instead she's slugged as the clown guards her (I checked and the terror radius never left the slugged area for more than 4 seconds) and can't blame the bot on that one as it flipped between gens and trying to save with primary on gens (go bot). It's not even slugging for the 4k as both me and the bot are still standing. He just watches her bleed in the corner she crawled to, and I mean that she literally crawled from where she went down into a corner.
So now we're at me and the bot, or rather the bot as the clown pointedly ignored said bot for a pretty long time, as in a gen popped long, before he slugs for the 4k. Me being petty with a full healing build, I get the bot up and the game goes till I'm backed against the wall, found, and chased. Eventually I hop in a locker and I can only call petty (yes pot calling kettle) as he thinks I got head on and is doing his damnedest to avoid it while I sit there chuckling dark as the bot works. It isn't till another gen pops that the clown finally said screw it, grabs me, and drops me to get the bot. Obviously he gets the bot and I've crawled a mile. The match ended with me getting lucky with hatch spawning in my face. Or the entity giving a middle finger to the clown.
If you bothered to read that story, it's shows how someone can play normal and play what some would call "toxic" and even do both within the same trial. Strategies can be used to be "toxic" just like words (sometimes actions speak louder than words after all). Just being in the game doesn't inherently mean it's not "toxic" especially when it's subjective.
Should i get mad at survivors for doing gens and not cleansing dull totems?
You can do as you will. People will claim it can't be toxic just like you claim that these strategies can't be toxic. You can play as is allowed, but you don't have any authority to say that it isn't toxic to someone. Especially when a player is obviously trying to make others miserable even when using valid strategies.
You don't know what that player was thinking. You don't know if they were or were not doing something, or what their plan was. It could have been that they felt bad about the DC and were giving you all chance to escape. Maybe they went afk, and you all just read into it too much. Maybe they thought that was the best way to secure the win. You have no idea.
The point is though, you immediately went to the "well he tunneled" argument or "well he slugged and didn't pick up what a loser". Again, playing the video game is not toxic. If i play a fighting game, and just throw fireballs over and over again, that is not toxic. If my opponent doesn't know how to deal with my throwing fireballs over and over again, and i get the win, that is on my opponent for not knowing how to deal with such a tactic. And, if hypothetically the fireball was just so strong that it was the best move in the game, and i was trying to win, why would i not use the move that statistically gives me the best odds of winning my match? Why would i handicap myself through some fictitious set of rules that the game knows nothing about?
DBD doesn't "know" about tunneling, it doesn't "know" anything. All it knows is, did i win the game, or did i lose?
Ironically, such a complaint you have should again be lodged at the devs. Because we used to have a system that cared about the quality of your matches (not just whether you escaped or got the kill) and they decided to scrap it for this system. So again, you should be pointing your ire toward the devs for allowing such a thing to occur.
I'd guess you are the type of person who would hate playing say MTG, and be mad because "the opponent countered my spell" or "they removed my creature" when those things are literally designed specifically to do that very thing.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988293#Comment_3988293
Orrrr you can play a video game while being toxic. It's not mutually exclusive. We'd also blame the players over the devs since they're the ones choosing to play that way, but that's an us thing.
A player can "be toxic" in that they are saying something. But a strategy in a video game is not toxic. You do not get to dictate how a player plays the game. There is nothing wrong with utilitizng a strategy that exists in the game.
Should i get mad at survivors for doing gens and not cleansing dull totems? I mean, why not spend time going after those useless totems? You get extra bloodpoints? I can't believe you would be so toxic and just work on gens.
I can't believe that killer didn't hook me, and then immediately run to the opposite end of the map, and face the wall for 30 seconds before starting another chase, and then making sure to completely ignore me while i did a gen in their face. It was so unfair.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988266#Comment_3988266
This is utter nonsense. While it is true that you will most likely encounter more Survivors who are toxic because there are simply more Survivors, blaming Survivors when a Killer is toxic is such a bad take. You really act as if Killers are pure little Angels who need to be protected and a Killer by themselves can never ever be toxic and when they act toxic, it is the Survivor side who is at fault, because they had to face a toxic squad before.
Yikes.
The take is bad mostly for the reasoning.
I agree with you that it is very clear that you will encounter more toxic survivor players than killer players. Its just pure math. There are 4x as many survivors as there are killers. If say, 10% of all players are toxic, and you played say, 10 games, statistically, 1 killer you encounter out of that 10 will be toxic, and 4 survivors will be toxic. Its just pure math and isn't about "1 side vs the other"
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988268#Comment_3988268
Depends on how you define "toxic". If someone plays like an arse, we'd be unsurprised if it would be considered toxic.
Playing a video game is not toxic. If you don't like how the player is playing, your problem should be with the developers for allowing the player to play that way, not at the player.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I had a match earlier that was the other way around. Played against a Sadako, who was playing super toxic, only tunneled people off of the hooks, and then proceeded to say "EZ LOSERS" in the end game chat.
So this is not survivor-exclusive at all.Playing the game is not toxic. The endgame chat part there, yeah sure. But playing the game is not toxic.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988086#Comment_3988086
Victor is essentially a dash killer with perma sprint burst that is for the most part undodgeable is the killer is experienced.
Setting that aside, there's plenty of room in the game for killers that lack a dash power to exist and also not have their best playstyle be watching a 3 gen from 12 camera angles for infinity or slugging from the start of a match.
I'm not saying there is not room. I'm saying that literally any time a killer is designed around, control, or non-dash based powers, or more macro level gameplay, they get complained about constantly until they are nerfed into uselessness or again reworked to just be dash killers. Survivor mains have made it clear with their constant complaining about it, that the devs only make dash killers.
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@Pulsar said:
Yeah, all of those Killers are also older.
Billy has been around forever.
Oni has been around for almost six years.
Blight for five.
Wesker for three.
We also have Demo, Chucky, Dracula, Houndmaster and Ghoul.
We can chill on dashes for a while, unfortunately, it seems like BHVR can only do either ranged attack or dash.
When they do non dash killers they get complained about until they get nerfed into uselessness or reworked into a dash killer. Look at all of the "most hated killers" and almost all of them (outside of recent ones like ghoul) were always about the "non dash" killers:
- Twins
- Old Skull Merchant
- Release Knight
- Sadako
- Singularity
- Springtrap
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986911#Comment_3986911
Not everyone can use their Anonymous Mode
….why?
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986911#Comment_3986911
No, I like to show my hours and be open to conversation from friendly individuals. I'm not gonna do that because some people are indecent. Anonymous players should not be able to use their status as a cowl to see other people without them knowing. Thus, they just shouldn't be allowed to perform those social actions while their name and profile is hidden as well, its just not fair.
You have all of the tools available to you to deal with toxic players You could:
- Turn on anonymous mode so they can't get to your profile.
- Lock down your steam profile so randos can't comment on it
- Lock down your steam account so random people can't message you
- Lock down your steam account so random people can't friend you.
- Private your steam profile so people can't look at it
- Turn off the chat
- Report the person at the end of the game (yes, it also works in anonymous mode)
- Report people who comment on your steam profile and are toxic.
And you don't want to use them. You only have yourself to blame.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
Simple fix to people using Anonymous mode as a safe guard to spread hate. If they turn it on, they can't see other people's names, profiles and such.
Or YOU could turn on anonymous mode?
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@TerraEsram said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3986328#Comment_3986328
Nah nah nah, before the patch, he was not able to do that because you have to manage how to throw your bottle to get the haste effect, in indoor map, it was the most difficult
Now, you just have to throw it at your feet and you get the effect, the change of the speed, AND the cooldown before the tonic take effect IS the problemIf you throw it at your feet you stand there for 1 second giving the survivvor 4 meters of extra distance. Far more distance than they would have gotten prepatch. You still have to aim the bottles.
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@nakedcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985821#Comment_3985821
Clown moving fast with no counter play makes him OP. He gets an m1, Dwight runs for a tile to loop him. But Clown gets there first or cuts Dwight off before he makes the tile. Clown gets another m1 which downs Dwight who couldn’t make it to anything before Clown (and even if he did since Clown is moving at bloodlust 3 w/his yellow bottles Dwight still can’t loop him). There’s no counterplay because he’s too fast for it. That’s the problem. He’s gonna be adjusted regardless so people pretending they dunno why he’s an issue doesn’t matter; feigned ignorance won’t save this killer like it didn’t save Forever Freddy or Chess Merchant. I just hope the devs revert him to what he was, he was fine.
So here's my question to you.
Prepatch, his haste was 10%, now its 12%. Can you explain how suddenly that makes him massively OP?
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@Mediva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3985797#Comment_3985797
by moving with mach 10 speed over the map when dropping yellow bottles at his feet. Faster then lithe, sprintburst. You cant reach anything before he catches up. And there is absolutely no downside to his out of this world speed.
So him moving fast is what makes him OP right now?
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@NerfClown said:
Why has Behavior over-reacted to Fog Vials and nerfed them into the ground but the moment people realize that Clown is absolutely busted in chase it takes them weeks upon weeks upon weeks to fix it. You have the answer staring you dead in the face Behavior, revert the Clown buffs until you decide on a different buff/nerf patch for him. Instead we are left here to rot with brain dead Clown gameplay because you have your collective thumbs up your arses.
You were so quick to attempt to fix other things but now it's "We want to make sure we test this change in the PTB" 🙄
We already know you struggle immensely with when to listen to the community and when not to. For once in the miserable existence of this game, use your brains to realize you can just revert Clown changes until you find a better option.
What makes clown so overpowered now?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984384#Comment_3984384
I can tell you watched Scott Jund's video, so thank you for providing me a summary of his points in text form.
A 20% increase in chases that last 45 seconds due to MFT is 54 seconds. 9 second PER chase.
A 4% decrease in chases that last 45 seconds due to the clown changes is 43.2 seconds, 1.8 seconds PER chase.
This is assuming everyone is just holding W to the opposite corner of the map. Unless you're on a map like coldwind, there WILL be obstacles which will force the survivor to path suboptimally, or force them to a tile. At that point, if a survivor is being forced to the tile, throwing the pallet and running will give you miles more distance as survivor than just raw haste (up to a certain point). Most tiles across the center of the map are 50/50s. Losing a 50/50 as survivor, with haste or not, will most likely secure a hit for the killer. All that to say, on paper it looks like a massive lean towards survivor, but in practice, haste increases favor killer because survivors are forced into tiles more quickly and cannot gain as much distance. Any hesitation by the survivor is a massive dip in the difference between their two positions; as going from 103% to 0% even temporarily means the killer can come barreling straight at you at 115%.
To even further explain the point, if both a survivor and killer had 3% haste, if starting from 10 meters away the killer would catch up to the survivor in the same amount of time at 16.666 seconds at 78.666 meters versus 16.666 seconds at 76.666 meters. An increase of 2 meters over the course of 16.666 seconds.
I don't really like scott TBH, i typically don't watch content creators in general as they have a clear bias around creating content that gets views and thus the most money, not necessarily whats the best thing for the game.
As for the 45 second thing, thats not about running in a straight line or anything. That is about the devs stated goal of balancing the game around the "average chase" lasting about 45 seconds.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984143#Comment_3984143
Wrong. The haste percentage has ALWAYS been in relation to the base survivor movement speed of 4.0 m/s. A survivor being 103% and a killer being 118% means they will catch up with each other at the same time as if they were 100% and 115%. Whatever haste increase applied to a survivor is actually more effective on killer due to lunge calculations as I mentioned previously.
There is a reason double speed addon blight is beyond broken.
This isn't entirely true. Yes things are based on a 4.0 m/s movement speed. But movement speed modifiers are based on the base movement speed of that character. So for example huntress with 1 stack of PWYF does not move at 4.6 m/s she moves at 4.62 m/s.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3984045#Comment_3984045
Again, a significant amount of window vaults are either made or missed in that time frame. That's just the fact of the matter, and it's even more exaggerated when killer hit validation takes priority over survivor validation.
If 2% is not that much haste, then why was 3% for made for this such a big deal? If 2% haste is nothing, then surely 1% more at 3% is next to nothing, yet every killer main swears to the moon and back that the perk was busted. Which is it? Is it broken or is it no big deal?
I figured you'd bring up MFT.
The reason MFT was a big deal and this is not is because its not about the absolute movement speed increase. It is about the DIFFERENCE in movement speeds between survivor and killer. Additionally, due to a smaller hitbox, when looping, the differences in movement speed become more pronounced, because survivors can loop tighter around things. This is why movement speed bonuses for survivor are so much more powerful than movement speed increases for killer.
A default killer speed is 4.6 m/s, and a default survivor speed is 4 m/s. So that means that the DIFFERENCE in their movement speeds is 0.6 m/s. MFT being 3% means that a survivor goes from 4 m/s movement speed to 4.12 m/s. Which when you do the math there, it becomes a 0.48 m/s DIFFERENCE in movement speeds. So that 3% extra movement speed from MFT, actually extends chases by (in raw movement speed terms) 20%. Which is very significant.
Now lets look at the clown changes.
Before the clown changes yellow bottles were 10% movement speed increase, and the purple bottles were a 15% movement speed decrease. If you combine those together, it meant that the clown was moving at 5.06 m/s, and the survivvor was moving at 3.4 m/s. For a total DIFFERENCE of 1.66 m/s.
If you only look at prepatch purple bottles (i guess prepatch people didn't use yellow bottles much?) Then survivors would move at 3.4 m/s and the clown at 4.6 m/s for a difference of 1.2 m/s
After the patch, the yellow bottles are now 12% movement speed increase, and the purple bottles are 14% movement speed decrease. Which means that the clown is moving at 5.152 m/s and the survivor is moving at 3.44 m/s. Which is a total DIFFERENCE of 1.712 m/s of difference. Which amounts to a 4% increase in the DIFFERENCES in the movement speed. Meaning clowns chases last 4% less amount of time.
After patch people are saying that clowns aren't using purple bottles and are just using yellow bottles, so if we compare that to the clowns prepatch only using purple bottles, then we see the clown is moving at 5.152 m/s and the survvivor is moving at 4 m/s for a difference of 1.152 m/s. Which is actually LESS than the movement speed difference with the prepatch clown using only purple bottles.
This is a very insignificant amount when you factor that the devs balance chases lasting around 45 seconds.
A 20% increase in chases that last 45 seconds due to MFT is 54 seconds. 9 second PER chase.
A 4% decrease in chases that last 45 seconds due to the clown changes is 43.2 seconds, 1.8 seconds PER chase.
Again, you aren't losing the game because you are going down 1.8 seconds faster. You are losing the game because you never went against any clowns that were properly using the yellow bottles. Clown was always able to do the things he is doing now, its just that it was harder to do. Saying clown is a problem when nurse exists is a joke.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983935#Comment_3983935
You conveniently forget the fact that some of the most popular Killer centric content on YT is "salty sweaty SWF ABSOLUTELY DECIMATED BY MY TRAPPER" "SALTY SURVIVOR COULD NOT HANDLE MY KANEKI" and so on and so forth
Both sides do it. I don't think this is your point, but i don't get why people call others "apologists" if they acknowledge that maybe this role has its annoyances and problems that need addressing in the same way they do for the role they prefer themselves
I'm talking about views more than anything. Look at the viewership and you'll see the survivor things get more views.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983998#Comment_3983998
Barring the fact that you ignored the rest of my comment explaining why this "on paper" math is only half the story, do you know how many times either making a window vault and getting hit at a window vault are down to tenths of a second? That 0.11 meters of extra distance is massive in those situations. Ask anyone in the community how many times they've gotten hit at a window where only 0.01 second more time would have saved them a health state.
.11 meters of distance moving at that speed is covered in a time frame of literally 0.015 seconds. For a game which runs servers with a tick rate of 60, this is literally like not a factor ever. We are talking like, tiny fractions of a tick.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983912#Comment_3983912
Lunge speed is based on current speed. He is able to lunge farther with a haste increase. The speed bottles activate faster, meaning he gets the haste more quickly. The haste differential in a vacuum makes the changes seem like a bunch of nothing, but when you put all the pieces together, clown is able to hit turbo speed practically instantaneously, lowering the distance survivors will be able to run against him. Activating 2% haste instantly versus throwing a purple bottle and having it potentially miss like how it used to be is a night and day difference.
It's this very method of only looking at the raw numbers on paper that leads to half baked balance changes like this to get released.
That's not entirely true. Lunge speed is set to 6.9 m/s and lasts for 0.8 seconds. Things can stack on top of it, but a 2% extra haste means prior to the change you would move at 7.59 m/s, for a total distance of 6.072 meters of distance. After the change the 2% extra makes it 7.728 movement speed for 6.1824 meters of distance.
You aren't going down because the clown is able to lunge 0.11 meters further.
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@DarkStrife said:
Survivors now have voice chat and their talking can be heard by the killer.
How good or bad would this fully be?
Its a neat idea, but discord removes the disadvantage. Carnival hunt i believe is doing that, and its interesting, but once you get organized teams using discord its over.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976564#Comment_3976564
He plays both roles pretty equally. He has no biases, hes one of the most informed dbd players on the planet
Most of the content creators that people talk about are survivor main apologists. Survivor content and "lol watch me loop this killer for 5 gens XDDDDDD" gets way more views than just a killer player dominating the game. Content creators in general are biased because they are trying to create the content that is the most interesting to watch that gets them the most views, and ultimately the most money.
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@HommeBizarre said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983906#Comment_3983906
Except that using a locker and using the ragequit button shouln't be used for a comparison
As one is gameplay issue and the other one is unsportmanlike
Ah yes, more "us vs them" please keep it going, because as long as everyone is fighting each other the game never actually improves.
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@PigWithTvs said:
nope not bugged they just buffed him for no reason
his yellow bottles got a giga buff despite everyone saying no
expect a revert when a patch comes hopefully…
His haste is 2% faster, his slowdown is 1% less, his haste activates 1 second faster, and his slowdown lasts 1 second less. (and sure, reload speed and such but nobody is complaining about that)
He is 1% faster (in speed difference) than he was before, but his yellow bottles are easier. Everything he is doing now he was always able to do, its just that it was harder to do and most bad clown players didn't use the yelllow bottles.
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@HommeBizarre said:
Since they have made maps offering to be 20%, going to the fallen refuge is really hard
Now you have to get a chance to GO TO THE MAP
DO THE GEN
ESCAPE THE TRIAL
But, if the killer is really bad he can just RAGE QUIT
And deny the achivement where you have to do all that stuff for NOTHING
Sorry, it's just that I am really mad. How is this even a thing?
For the same reason survivors can deny myers the evil within achievmnet.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3983322#Comment_3983322
Do you honestly believe they are going to buff clown?
Did getting 2% extra haste and 1% less slowdown, 1 second faster haste startup and 1 second less lasting slowdown suddenly make him more overpowered than nurse?
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@Amazon_Box said:
Yesterday i bought pi and ghoul, pig is ALOT more fun, and Ken just sucks, his token system is broken and needs a buff or a rework, otherwise i feel locked up half the time- ANYWAYS
I have trouble with the pig for when to put on the traps. Do it too early- won't have it for the endgame. Do it too late, and they won't activate at the gate. i try to do it at either 2 or 3 gens completed.
meanwhile im tryna figure out how Ken is "S tier"..
thanks!
As a pig enjoyer, the main thing outside of practicing when and how to use the dash, is the traps. This is less a skill thing and more a strategy thing. Most newer pig players think the traps are to get kills on survivors, but that is not what they are best used at. They take so long to kill a survior, and spending time going after a survivor with a trap is 3 other survivors who are just on gens.
The traps are built-in slowdown that the survivors must deal with. Don't actively chase survivors that have a trap on their head, trap them, hook them, and then move on and ignore them.
Yeah, maybe you randomly run across them while they are running around trying to get the trap off, and you smack them or something, that can happen, but just ignore them. Often times just slug them and force even more pressure on the team.
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@MoZo said:
the DbD team just put out another apology on twitter about the issues and backlash that happened during yesterday’s Chandler Riggs DbD livestream. i’m going to be so honest here, this apology doesn’t mean anything. yesterday was the biggest slap in the face not only to the dbd community, but also to its biggest CC Otz. Otz gave a clear cut and working solution to the problems yesterday during the DDoS attacks during the livestream and the devs basically spat in his face and told him his idea was worthless (they didn’t actually do that but that’s what it felt like).
this on its own is bad but opens up a butterfly effect that i don’t think the devs are ready for. with them completely ignoring a harmful idea and solution from their BIGGEST CC basically tells the rest of the community that they don’t gaf about our ideas or opinions. if they don’t trust and take ideas from their biggest, very experienced, kind, loyal and trusted CC, what makes you think they would listen to anything anyone else has to say about the game? It’s honestly sad and disappointing how many L’s BHVR has gotten these past couple weeks because this summer genuinely sounded like it was gonna be peak dbd but it seems we are far, far from peak dbd.
in all of the apologies and responses bhvr gives, they always say “we’re taking a hard look at how we can do better moving forward.” but it seems that every time they never learn or get better moving forward. this needs to be the biggest wake up call over there at bhvr because there’s only so many empty apologies they can put out before the community takes off the rose tinted glasses and points out the real problems on how yall don’t learn from your mistakes.
little bit of a ranty discussion but i had to get this off my chest. it makes me actually pissed because i spent a lot of time and money on this game only for the devs to keep making a worse and worse reputation of their game and how they deal with problems and issues surrounding the game.
Just listen to the damn people who actually play the game. Otz had the solution but you refused to listen to these people for some reason. Why even have a fog whisperer program if you don't listen to them?
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981901#Comment_3981901
Maybe in your case, not in mine. But it doesn't matter where they are. they could be next to shack and they would still be useless. You're ignoring that this realm more than any of the original 3, consistently has the worst "filler" pallets, the worst maze tiles, the worst LT walls, and nothing to justify it in terms of other structures. Even the damn CORN got nerfed. The lighting is the brightest of nearly any map so stealth (lol) isn't an option. There's no excuse for how awful these maps are in their current state.
Whatever man, i tried to help. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink.
I guess you can keep living in your world where "they are useless" and just keep losing games.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981891#Comment_3981891
These are way too common on Cowshed to be called fillers. They aren't filling gaps between strong tiles. They're just in the middle of empty corn.
Even in places where they're near what is supposed to be a strong tile, for some reason Coldwind just doesn't get decent tiles, nearly ever. Most of the time its either the weakest LT walls of any realm, or one of those garbage new tiles that has nowhere near the strength of a normal jungle gym. What structure on these maps justifies every tile being horrible? Main on Cowshed has ONE pallet and ONE window, neither of which are too strong. The carts near main are usually just empty. Harvester is an easy win unless you have Balanced to run somewhere else. Every one of these maps, aside from maybe Torment Creek is just "shack & cow tree: the map"
I mean, i literally showed you one that was right in between the 2 strongest structures on the map, and that was just t he first one i loaded in with.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981882#Comment_3981882
you can't be serious. you could tank the stun and still get a hit with how far any other tile would be.
the "long side"
Couldn't get the bots to cooperate and start a chase there, but here is at least an example of the distances:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOg6d55wK_EYou can see that if i do afull lunge on either side of the box, i can almost lunge all the way through the pallet. But, on the cone side, i can barely get to that side of the pallet. This is showing that the cone side is actually the longer side. The cone thing looks a lot smaller as a survivor because it is. Remember survivors have a smaller hitbox than killers. So a perfect circle is actually the best "loop" you can do in the game, because that hitbox difference is at its maximum effect.
And yeah, these pallets aren't exactly the best pallets, but its a filler tile. You can see right in the video its right in between 2 structures, the killer shack in the middle, a long wall jungle gym, that has another filler on one side, and an LT wall on the other. So again, this is a fillter tile, but its not compeltely useless. The point with fillter tiles like this is you often can't just predrop the pallet, because the killer can just go around and hit you while you are in the drop animation.
You need to actually loop a bit and play the pallet to either bait the stun, or get the killer to back off while you drop the pallet, forcing them to either kick it while you run to the next thing, or to go back around. If they go back around, with the pallet dropped, you have a decent loop that creates basically a 50/50 of "do you vault" or "do you not vault"
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3981882#Comment_3981882
you can't be serious. you could tank the stun and still get a hit with how far any other tile would be.
the "long side"
ugh, hold on let me record a video just to prove you wrong on this one. Give me a bit.
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@Rogue11 said:
Multiple of these on the map, with massive dead zones to anything else (not that it would matter, you couldn't even chain this with anything). Empty fields of corn as far as the eye can see. Every maze tile was the garbage Coldwind Special where no matter what you do, the pallet is hidden somewhere in the middle and useless even if you find it. Please someone on the design team show me what I'm missing in my thousands of hours of playing survivor. Clearly I'm just bad and can't loop killers on this incredible tile.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B8CXQ7BJQKOZ/pallet.png
The loop on the left there around that cone thing is deceptively long for a killer due to hitbox differences. The box side is pretty short yeah, but lots of loops have longer and shorter sides.
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@EmpireCity830 said:
I'm just looking for an opinion.
I've noticed that my killer games have gotten tougher due to having to spend more time at the start looking for survivors. Spawns are random so I don't know where they could be. Gens get done faster with this as well.
I'm curious if others have noticed this as well.Considering the change doesn't work half the time, its hard to tell. In theory it should be a buff.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
IMO one of the main reasons why Cheaters are not getting reported is because you need to do so much to actually report them. You need to have a way to record your game, you have to grab all information you can, you have to open a Support Ticket, you have to upload the recording on Youtube and then link to it in the Support Ticket. And on top of all of that you have to make sure that you report them ingame.
So lots of work and I can understand that people dont really bother with that. I am not bothering with it anymore after I reported a clear cheater. They had Wallhacks (perfectly mirroring the Killer despite not seeing any red stain), Speedhacks (while the Killer was a Deathslinger and therefore only 110% Speed, he should have still catched up after a while in chase) and then ran straight to the Hatch when it opened. The person I reported did not get banned for months, so since then, I dont bother. If they make it as inconvenient as possible to report Cheaters, I will not go out of my way of doing that. I report them ingame, this takes me a few seconds and thats it.
IMO they need to have a replay-system. It might even be enough to only save the last 5 replays or even the last game played so that people then can upload parts of it to Youtube and dont have to deal with their own software to record. Or simply upload the whole replay-file (which might only be a few KB big) to the Support Ticket.
They don't even need a replay system.
The fact that their game can't look at a player and say "oh look, this person crossed the entire map instantly, or finished a gen instantly, or the killer killed people before they even loaded in, and realize thats a problem, is a problem. They should detect those type of things, immediately end the game, and then file a report on their end.
Yes, bugs can happen, but if someone is doing this type of thing every game, seems like a prime candidate for a ban, either they are cheating, or they are exploiting some massive bug, and are cheating. If it happens once or twice, sure whatever, could just be a bug, but if they do it game after game, its a problem.
And that's just the obvious ones. How hard is it to do some simple math?
- "Oh look, this survivor is running at 105% movement speed, and there are no perks in play that could affect movement speed" and it happens every game
- "Oh look, this killer somehow has 20 perks equipped"
- "Oh look, this generator was completed in 80 seconds by one survivor and there were no perks, or toolboxes in play"
Like, fine, don't use this as a ban detector directly, but use it as a "maybe cheating occured, lets end the match now and flag it for BHVR to investigate later"
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958287#Comment_3958287
Thanks a ton for sharing all of these screenshots and video, folks! This is immensely helpful and goes a long way in illustrating what you're experiencing. Let me bring all of this back to the folks who were working on this so that they can take a look at what might be occurring.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957450#Comment_3957450
This is typically done to cut down on conversation about a given issue being fragmented across multiple posts, centralizing that discussion in - ideally - one place. In doing this, we try to merge and close bug report threads, but still actively check these closed threads for relevant proof points we can bring back to the team to aid in their investigations.
Hey @ThatRyanB as of the last patch, this is still happening, just got out of a game where everyone spawned in completely random corners of the map, no offering was in play, everyone brought cakes. This issue is still occuring. I can get some more videos/screenshots if needed.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3979646#Comment_3979646
Cool, lmk when this applies to Clown/ Kaneki.
Nobody has been able to explain to me how clown getting 2% more haste on his haste bottles and losing 1% slowdown on the hindered bottles suddenly makes him massively overpowered and a huge problem.
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@TheGoon224 said:
I’m asking this because in my survivor games i really enjoy helping my team. my favorite to help my team right now is duty of care, vigil, overcome, and shoulder the burden I’m looking for something just as fun or more fun than what I’m currently running.
I tend to play in a support style, where i keep track of what my team is doing and react to what needs to be done based on the situation as a solo queue survivor. What that amounts to is a build about giving me as much information as possible.
Perks:
- Kindred
- Bond
- Deja Vu
- Open handed
Open handed increases the range of the aura reading for the whole team, which is quite nice for anyone who happens to have perks for it.
Having a 52 meter bond is crazy. Keep in mind that 128 meters is basically map wide. So i get almost half a map of aura reading on my team. Also with bond, if i'm getting chased i can see where my teammates are, and not run the killer to them, and instead change which direction i'm running.
Deja vu is to prevent getting 3 genned and get a nice boost the gens.
And of course kindred is the ultimate solo queue perk. Lets me see what the whole team is doing when someone is on a hook so when they are out of range of bond it is quite helpful. Also the extra range on open handed applies to the killer aura, so it lets me see which direction the killer is going right after hooking the survivor, letting me know if i should be going for the save, or if i should be starting to hide or pre-run.
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@MarbleThrone said:
We should keep bumping this thread to the top until we get some official confirmation.
They'll say its intended, just like reduced bloodpoints, won't elaborate further, and then hope we all move on.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976964#Comment_3976964
The last official response was in May by Mandy who said abusing unintended interactions with a perk is not bannable.
They hae stated many times, that with the killswitch existing, they will never ban someone for exploiting a bug with something that can be killswitched. If they feel it is bad enough, they will kill switch it. No point in banning people for it.
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@sinkra said:
On the face of it, I am all for a target of 60% kill rate for killers. Make the game slightly killer sided so that it's clear killer is the power role.
My problem with it is how it's currently being accomplished.
If you check the stats on nightlightgg for a more nuanced look of kill rate statistics you'll see that the thing that contributes most to the 60 percent kill rate is a high rate of 4k's.
As a killer main who dabbles in survivor to do challenges my least favorite games as either side are the same. One side snowballs out of control so hard that the other side has no hope of a comeback. Not killing anyone as killer sucks, but I also dislike stomping so hard that it was hardly a game.
As survivor, watching no progress happen as the killer stacks hooks feels Sisyphean. But sitting on a gen and hardly getting to interact with the killer for the whole trial is also less than appealing.
Close games, 2ks or 3ks, are the sweet spots in my opinion, but looking at the stats 2k/3k games are an extremely small minority of games. In fact for most killers about half their games are 0ks or 4ks.
This is why I loved the second iteration of 2v8, because very rarely were games 8k or 0k. There were comeback mechanics and both sides could turn things around until the end. Games didn't snowball out of control early on like in 1v4 and as a result there were also far less leavers.
TLDR: I would rather get more 2k or 3k games while still maintaining the 60% kill rate, if possible. Shifting gameplay tendencies away from snowballs into more back and forth games that end somewhere in the middle.
The math checks out when you factor in hatch. For a 50% win rate.
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@Vrose29 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970493#Comment_3970493
Hey, just letting you know your math is wrong. Each chance is 4%. Percentages don't stack in that way, and mathematically just because there's 3 chances does not mean there's a 12% chance. If that was the case even more people would have been able to unhook prior to the change. It's 3 attempts with a 4% successful chance. I was suggesting 2 without health bar going down as a compromise to unhelpful teammates/bad situations vs going next.
I already edited it.
3 chances, at a 4% chance means you have a 96% chance for it to not happen. so 3 attempts makes it 11.5ish %
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@Shroompy said:
Might be controversial, but Wraith
Should he be a priority? No, since his add ons are still decent. But a lot of them are just the same with different values. For example he has 3 different Swift Hunts, 3 Windstorms, 2 Shadow Dances (and more Im not thinking of)
He should also get Shadow Dance basekit, maybe 20-25%.
The problem with wraith is that every addon is basically needed in some capacity. Its what they keep doing with him.
Realistically, they should just take every top addon that buffs numbers like windstorm and so on, give 75% of it to him in basekit, make the last 25% come from a single addon each, and then give him a bunch of new addons that do fun stuff. -
@Rudjohns said:
I already recommended for the "kobe" and hook progress bar to be separated, but people think letting survivors have 3 free attempts of 4% is too broken
Theres other way to balance it out, such as if you unhook yourself without the help of other perks you don't trigger your anti tunnel perks
Or even better, rework LUCK to affect killers as well. The bigger the luck in the trial the better the chances of less pallets spawning in the map, just an example.
I mean, it is. Having a 12% chance after hooking a survivor for them to just unhook themselves, relieving all pressure you just did purely because the game "decided" to let you do it with no skill input at all involved is kind of ridiculous.
EDIT: sorry an 11.5264% chance, but you get the idea.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970377#Comment_3970377
i don't really know what to tell you. The statement saying SWF was always intended has been provided. So maybe we have to put that particular interview over there in a box somewhere, and focus on the reality of the situation then and now?
Listen, I get that many players who primarily play killer and do so extremely well hate SWF with a passion. But the truth is without it there's no way this game lasts anywhere this long. It's existed almost all of the game's span, and the devs know they have to cautiously approach messing with how it works because we're talking around half of all survs here.
And from what I can tell, the issues most players have is the insanely strong trio and especially quad teams, which are the absolute rarest to encounter. Should a killer truly get such god-like squads regularly (which I doubt) then congratulations you're in that mythical top MMR area have fun sweating with the sweats all day. But for the vast majority of trials, that's not the reality.
You are still misunderstanding. I'm not saying i hate it, i'm saying it causes massive balance problems with this game that affects solo queue players negatively.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969849#Comment_3969849
I think they described the game as he saw it then, and how he thought it would be going forward. The players themselves and technology changed it for him.
Right, so he described the game then, as in, it was originally designed to not have SWF.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969849#Comment_3969849
Misspoke more likely or was speaking of design philosophy in-general. There were VERY few aura perks at that point.
We know they had SWF in the works prior to the launch of the game. Whether or not they expected the game to last ten years after said launch is another story, I think.
"We know they had SWF in the works prior to launch of the game"
Proof of that? Everyone keeps saying it, but i find nothing, only thing i found was the interview i mentioned where he specifically states part of the fun of the game is not knowing who you are playing with.