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@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007737#Comment_2007737
That doesn't deactivate bloodlust. They have to break it. Remember we're in end game when noed has started. They're only feasible option is to go for one survivor.
Assume I'm versed on all game mechanics. I'm arguing that it's up to the killer to choose to lose bloodlust.
Yeah, their option is to go after survivor and either brake a pallet and have a chance to get more or throw all their resources at getting that one survivor. That's how game works.
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@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007705#Comment_2007705
You're doing it again. dOwN tO tHe BiTtEr cOrE. It's waffle.
Bloodlust is base kit. You don't get one or the other if you have picked noed.
Are you trying to say it's up to the survivor not to get BL3 on top of noed (on a competent killer player)? Hello?
You drop a pallet and either waste 2+ minutes running around it, effectively winning the game for your team or make killer lose BL3.
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@Rivyn said:
What's the point? If they can't heal, then they're already in the same position as being exposed.
Yeah. The point is to change the activation conditions + make noed equally viable for all killers.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006229#Comment_2006229
How long did Ruin last before the nerf?
Also how long since Noed didn’t get any changes/nerfs announced?
also can’t talk about previous Noed nerfs, i know it got changed once Totems and Hexes were introduced but I didn’t play the game then.
Also Undying didn’t perform as it was intended from the beginning. It was basically only playable with Ruin, it got changed to have better synergy with other Hexes and got overall nerfed but not obliterated with that.
overall, I didn’t mean to say the devs nerf more survivor stuff than killer stuff. But there are definitely nerfs and buffs on both sides. Almost all of them -including Undying change- were needed, and there are still many things on both sides that need changing/nerf. I just wanted to point out that DS and OoO are literally confirmed to be next on the chopping block (well, we don’t know when OoO will get it)
>How long did Ruin last before the nerf?
I guess we're going to ignore addition of multiple perks and mechanics that made dealing with ruin easier and easier which means the perk was indirectly nerfed. Not to mention that when the perk was finally changed, it basically was barely usable until devs added undying.
Nothing like that was really added for DS for years. Undetectable mechanic was an indirect nerf for OoO, I'll give you that, however this came only a few months later after Ghostface release, when devs realised that something is very wrong.
>Also how long since Noed didn’t get any changes/nerfs announced?
Maybe because it's already not in need of any changes? Nerfs of 2016&2017 severely weakened the perk already. Devs have confirmed multiple times that they are fine with noed in it's current state.
>also can’t talk about previous Noed nerfs, i know it got changed once Totems and Hexes were introduced but I didn’t play the game then.
Well let me give you a little history lesson about noed nerfs:
Patch 1.0.5
- Nerf: added a timer of 120 seconds
- Nerf: decreased the Movement Speed bonus to 3/4/4 %.
That's nerf number one. Before that Noed gave 5% movement bonus and lasted infinitely.
Patch 1.5.0
- Nerf: No One Escapes Death changed to a Hex Perk.
- Buff: removed the timer, now lasts indefinitely until the associated Hex Totem
- is cleansed.
That's nerf number two, or better say, slight rework, that created the noed we know now which had a working counterplay in 2017 and got more and more ways to counterplay it until now.
I'm not mentioning a lot of changes affecting particular killers like huntress, which removed their ability to instadown survivors with their powers with noed, although it technically counts as nerf.
>Also Undying didn’t perform as it was intended from the beginning. It was basically only playable with Ruin, it got changed to have better synergy with other Hexes and got overall nerfed but not obliterated with that.
It was killed. Brutally and mercilessly killed. It no longer has that "if hex gets broken, it gets another chance to live", it just makes your hex have an additional totem, you'd have to protect as well and which can be located and broken simultaneously. Its effect isn't impactful or effective enough. The entire glorified undying rework is just to make it so that your undying is always broken first. I don't think it's necessary to explain how useless undying was when it was destroyed fist.
>overall, I didn’t mean to say the devs nerf more survivor stuff than killer stuff.
No, survivor's stuff gets nerfed much more often than killer's stuff, I can admit it. However, there's one little catch that people tend to miss. One little difference between survivor and killer nerfs.
The only difference is that 90% of survivor nerfs are making the OP thing slightly less OP, while 90% of killer stuff nerfs are synonymous to making nerfed stuff useless, unplayable or unenjoyable to use. Almost all survivor nerfs in 2016-2020 are fixed of completely broken, overpowered and abusable bullshit: infinites, flashlights, brand new parts, pallet vacuum, 30+ pallets on one map, 150% perks that could be stacked and had separate cooldowns of 20 seconds (nerfed to 40 later), instaheals, gen speeds, stacked healing speed, self-healing midchase, etc, etc (there's much more). By the way, fun fact, some of these things devs REFUSED to change, saying they were fine (I'm talking about flashlight, insta blinding ones), until one of devs (Matt Cote) played a "fun" match against 4 man SWF where he got midschool experience of being bullying victim.
I can barely remember less than a dozen of things on killer side that were just as ridiculous and that got rightfully changed: noed before 1.5.0&1.0.5; old brutal strength (even though in current game 40% braking speed wouldn't be OP really); Omega blink&5 blink nurse, Frank's mixtape legion; mories (before 1 hook requirement); facecamping (before changes you could stand right in front of survivor preventing others from unhooking them at all) and that's it maybe. I didn't mention some minor tweaks or perk changes that were just number tweaks, but otherwise the most hitting nerfs came after another week or month of SURVIVOR whining (remember freddy in 2017?) leading to disastrous nerfs.
Otherwise, most other "OP" killer stuff got either indirect nerfs or people simply adapted to them so well, that nerfs weren't needed. Until another "op killer thing" got nerfed and they changed their target, of course.
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@chadbeastofprey said:
literally all they have to do is remove the speed buff and i'm happy.
Wouldn't really change anything, apart from indirectly nerfing M1 killers even more.
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@Mugombo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006229#Comment_2006229
And ds hasn’t been nerfed either in the past. Okay then
It was nerfed once (not much really, just like how many other survivor things get nerfed with a few exceptions - from OP to strong) then it got reworked into an even more abusable version that remained what it is for more than two years until devs finally announced that they are changing it.
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@Mooks said:
DS and OoO.
oh wait, are we supposed to ignore survivor related nerfs in this thread or is it unbiased?
Will you be kind to remind us how long it took for these perks to get their changes announced and how much did it take for undying to get killed.
Bonus points if you tell how much Noed was nerfed in the past and how much time ago did it happen.
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@Retromind said:
Noed is meant to punish gen rushing and ignoring secondary game objective aka cleansing dull totems. You're trying to cuck the killers using their final tool for this job. So yeah, I'll pass your suggestion.
I'm making this perk in finisher only that becomes devastating if activated.
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@Yumyumtasty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004882#Comment_2004882
or you know, just straight up quit. We curretnly have what, 5 minute survivor queues for solos? Where's the need in driving away killers with nerfs?
good question
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Trapper.
I'm always too oblivious for his traps and suddenly getting caught gives me a heart attack.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004829#Comment_2004829
Noed Isn't useless against injured survivors, the speed boost still helps alot. Also since Adrenaline is a reward for completing the gens and Noed is a catch up perk I don't think they are equivalent.
and adrenaline also gives 150% burst, so..?
These perks are basically one and the same perk just mirrored. It just so happens that for one side it works as an extra advantage, while for the other it is a finisher/catch up mechanic.
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@Yumyumtasty said:
if NOED gets changed gens get rushed to ######### every game which is why they won't do it.
Killers need the looming threat of NOED without even having it or else gens will fly, that is way more powerful than actually having the perk itself. If that is not a thing anymore survivors will just ignore bones
If noeds get nerfed, I guess a lot of people will just start 3 genning
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004137#Comment_2004137
Your wrong then.
Noed decreases the time it takes to kill someone via one health state, adrenaline gives you an extra health state.
Both give a speed boost.
Both have no activation requirements other than exit gates powered.
Adrenaline useless against instadowns, noed useless against injured as it only takes one hit anyway.
See, are equivalent.
Not hatch
Both hatch and adrenaline are equivalents of noed in one thing or the other.
Noed and hatch are both "catch up" mechanics in some way, while noed and adrenaline are basically same perk just mirrored for the other side.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004299#Comment_2004299
Everything a survivor can do on pc can be replicated on console. this can't.
No true scotsman would ever..
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@idektbh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004299#Comment_2004299
I wouldn't consider it an exploit if it wasn't a pc only "tech", it's kinda bs consoles just can't do it, like isn't all their downsides in this game enough already?
nice appeal to purity, but no.
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Oh, so when killers find a tech, it is called an exploit.
The hypocrisy.
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@Claudette_Baguette said:
so literally make saving someone impossible because everyone is oneshot?
yes.
don't forget the game will tell you that this will happen if you don't heal yourself before popping last gen.
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@Zozzy said:
you just deleted noed from existence.
The solution is do bones. You know, that extra task that people keep asking for to balance out the game.
There are 5 totems and 4 survivors. if you are so damn focused on banging out the gens and tbagging the killer then you deserve noed.
Like I said, I don't think noed needs any nerfs or reworks, but since devs will inevitably bow to crybabies that can't live peacefully without some stuff from killers not being nerfed every chapter-midchapter, I'm proposing the outcome that I believe is the best.
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@JPA said:
No one thinks tunneling (true tunneling) is fair
Just like some survivors being good enough on certain map setups to survive a single chase for 3 to 5 gens is not really fair
You just need to get good enough at chases to deter the Killer to commit to an early chase on you. But the risk of getting too good is that the Killer will just then hook camp you for wasting their time 😜
Speak for yourself.
If killer tunnelvisions survivor, he gets punished by getting 1 kill at best since others just genrush and then tank hits.
Anything else is target prioritisation and using it means being good at one of parts of the game, just like noticing best spawns in the map and chaining them in chase means being good at one of parts of the game.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Goddammit.
This stupid forum just deleted everything I just typed!!!
Heres the short version.
- its supposed to make the game harder if you find the game too easy.
- Take protection hits for teammates that are tunnelled. The killer can’t ignore you on the ground if they don’t want you reviving. This can save a team mates life.
- No blood means easily sneak away from an unhook.
- No Mither is the ONLY exception where in the dying state you should ALWAYS attempt to crawl away first. If a killer realises their mistake and returns for you, no blood and reduced grunting means you’re harder to find. Crawl, hide, THEN recover.
Yup. Stack it with tenacity and iron will and become the hardest slug to get and find.
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@dnj510 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2002368#Comment_2002368
That's right! I forgot lockers were his weakness with that add-on.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2002363#Comment_2002363
I did the first gen and the team managed to get nearly 2 more gens done before I got caught. I was trying to break line of sight and run around everything but there wasn't a locker near me when he T3 off of me.
So you couldn't reach a locker in how many seconds? There's not a single map where you're unable to reach locker after dropping pallet on killer, that's how many lockers are there.
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Don't feed him.
Literally anytime I play or face Myers with red mori addons, I see 2-3 gens pop before he reaches the state where he has to come in tap range from a survivor.
Sometimes I see Myers pop T3 on 5 gens left, but that's usually because there's that one overconfident survivor who thinks that there's no problem in giving killer T3 or a good portion of stalking progress in first 30 seconds of the game. Maybe that's your case?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000987#Comment_2000987
I also don't agree with how easy SWF is, so...
yOu dOn'T uNdErStAnD tHaT iS dIfFeReNt tHeY jUsT pLaY wItH tHeIr fRiEnDs aNd yOu aRe jUsT jEaLoUs
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>It will be fun, what do you think?
It wouldn't.
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Killer is just a meme material, but nothing more.
Yeah, knives go muda-muda, funny haha, next chapter please.
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@Kebek said:
But but but I need 100% foolproof counterplay or it's not counterplay. Meanwhile I'm gonna loop this Legion in shack leading into 2 jungle gyms.
Oh, you just summarized all spirit needs counterplay posts in one sentence.
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Imagine adding rais as killer when this game literally had FPS zombie gameplay
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2001000#Comment_2001000
to be fair, I'd say only the nurse and maybe julie and hag are sizeable/massive retcons. All other tomes so far kinda fit
Wraith? They entirely ruined his "Didn't want to kill, was made to, snapped" character with that cinematic.
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>nifty lore
haha, no.
After devs introduced tomes, they just screwed the lore with those stupid retcons.
I'd rather learn the lore from Benedict's observations tbh
They had a lot of potential with tomes, but they wasted it into retconning and boring cliches that doesn't connect to the old lore in many noticeable details.
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Oh, what is it, people are starting to wake up on stealth being a viable strat, a decade hasn't passed.
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@Mineguy said:
So survivors should bring every game these perks and items? That's not a real counterplay. Also they don't nerf a Perk because it's funny, they do it to balance the game a little bit. I'm happy I don't have to go against undying and ruin every round.
funny how any hex meta build is actually useless against good survivors, but gets nerfed anyway because majority just sucks at game and refuses to admit it and adapt.
And exactly because the majority sucks and refuses to change their playstyle or builds accordingly to killer's meta, these hex meta builds are meta in the first place.
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Rework.
She is barely playable right now.
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Devs should begin with showing SWFs in lobbies & introducing lobby dodge penalties.
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Play deathslinger with Monitor&Abuse
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Yes, it would be awesome.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1995883#Comment_1995883
It's not bullet proof counter but it is her weakness. You won't out stealth wraith who has power just for finding survivors easily. It's well known that most strong anti loop killers you need to be stealthy against. Cannot say how easy 4ks i got with the nurse just simply because they refused stealth even if they had good map for it like swamps etc.
No counter should be bullet proof though.
Regardless, stealth is a pretty solid way to deal with them, especially if you're actually putting some thought into it instead of mindlessly repeating 2-3 patterns you've learnt 3 years ago like a lot of spirit haters do with looping.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1994566#Comment_1994566
Spirit is anything but fine lol.
Not everyone wants to always play stealthy against a killer with little to no counterplay.
I don't want to use paper against rock because I main scissors, nerf rock bruh.
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If a lot of people enter the game
Choose a killer
And their first impression is that he seems to be photoshopped from somewhere else
Then I'm pretty sure these people aren't wrong.
This killer is TOO shiny. TOO clean. TOO polished (literally, he looks like he's made out of wax or plastic). He doesn't seem like he fits in DbD.
DbD characters are dusty, rusty and dirty. They aren't looking like they've just got a 12 hour session with their stylist who finished their look by pouring some shiny red liquid on them.
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They really should revert Pig nerfs in 2.7.0 and make EGC stop/slow down when somebody's trapped.
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Blight.
He's good at spreading damage and since forced penance applies to his lethal rush for some reason, he's very good at applying passive slowdown.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1995079#Comment_1995079
I have played way too much as and against the spirit to agree with any of that.
Whispers is a ridiculously strong tracking perk, especially on someone with really good map knowledge. I can usually pinpoint locations with it if the survivor is by themselves.
There is also discordance, surveillance, infectious, tinkerer, monitor and abuse, etc. All of which have counter play but and by the time you realize they have it the killer has probably already found you.
Don’t tell me to equip a perk to counter a killer, that’s a horrible argument.
“Whoosh sound is a joke” ignores the speed she is moving at, especially with addons. She’s moving at 200% movespeed with just a green. Which is 8 meters a second and you get a 24meter “woosh” range. So you have ~2 seconds to hide and if she stops short? There’s no way you are finding a spot to hide that quickly.
”Learn” different ways to beat a killer that can hit you anytime you run, anytime you stay at a pallet, and gets a free down anytime you are injured. Ok. I have good headphones and I get almost perfect hits on fully healthy survivors if they are running.
All of the arguments you have made point towards the fact that you are a newer player, and that’s fine.
I'm talking about my experience as red rank survivor. If hiding is too difficult for you and you're finding excuses not to do so, that's on you.
Just stop running the moment you see spirit, get down in 30 seconds and then go crying on forums how ridiculous is spirit. You're acting like an old man who learnt something in one certain way and refuses to do it in any other way because he's too old to learn something new.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1995062#Comment_1995062
You could say that about literally any killer in the game.
“Just never be in chase” is almost admitting she is broken.
And it’s not feasible. Given that you:
1) Can spawn almost in line of sight of the killer on some maps
2) The killer can use very strong tracking perks
3) The Spirit can phase onto your generator and appear before you can realistically react, especially with speed addons
Spirit is literally blind half of the match.
She is 110 killer who has NO time or opportunity to look for hiding survivors like walking killers have and who is unable to spot survivors while traversing around the map due to how her power works.
She flies to gen, sees nobody there, checks nearby tree at worst and leaves the moment she gets her power because 3 other survivors are not pressured.
You literally don't sprint and don't run in the open and she will find you only by accident or if you get sloppy.
>1) Can spawn almost in line of sight of the killer on some maps
That's extremely rare occasion and even so you can manage to hide from killer while they get to you.
>2) The killer can use very strong tracking perks
Not a single tracking perk killers have is able to precisely locate survivors OR cannot be countered with simple things.
I assume you mean perks like BBQ (2 NO PERK counters) or Whispers (which are pretty useless in finding the exact location of hiding survivor) but they don't break stealth gameplay, especially if you run perks that help you avoid being noticed.
>3) The Spirit can phase onto your generator and appear before you can realistically react, especially with speed addons
Whoosh sound is a joke apparently. You can also use your eyes to see spirit from far, they usually don't bother with hiding.
Not even mentioning Spine Chill that should be your must perk if you're having so much trouble against Spirit.
Spirit isn't an old legion that downs you in 20 seconds regardless what you do. She is beatable, you just have to LEARN different ways to do so. If you refuse, the problem isn't spirit. It's like playing rock-paper-scissors and complaining that you can't win with rock against paper.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1994572#Comment_1994572
I do think she does have counterplay, but the counterplay is trying to throw her off even though you don't have a clue where she might be. Good Spirits will almost always react to what survivors are doing especially if their injured without Iron Will and/or with Stridor.
That's what you do IN CHASE.
What I'm suggesting is to AVOID chases in the first place. As long as possible. Make her waste time looking for you, then return to gen and repeat.
If you avoid direct confrontations as much as you can, you will have significantly less troubles escaping her.
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Spirit is fine.
Just utilize stealth tactics to make her waste time looking for you. She's exceptionally good at chases, but is very bad at finding survivors especially if they are trying to hide from her.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1993450#Comment_1993450
I mean that is the goal yes, but it's harder to do in reality. That's why undying was nerfed in the first place, soon as you got on a totem *angry chainsaw noises from across the map in your direction*. It isn't so bad with some killers, but others it can be difficult. (also, see my previous posts above about dull totems, generally it's not the best way to deal with noed anyways unless you can coordinate it properly)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1993441#Comment_1993441
Yeah that would help. Though, I think if we had the system like ScottJund (and others before) have suggested instead or in addition to, not only would it help with that but like, almost every other annoying aspect of solo queue. Not all of them, but a lot.
Well that's why we just need totem counter.
As for "angry chainsaw noises", this just usually means instead of "braking totem" button you have "interrupt killer from whatever he was doing" button. If killer has 2 totems to defend, it becomes pretty difficult for him to defend them if 2 survivors figure out they can tap totems/sit on them a bit to make killer go in their direction and then run away.
That's the reason I'm never playing with totem builds, as it's just awful when survivors make you run between totems or give up on defending them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1993415#Comment_1993415
If they have ruin and undying in the same build with noed it can be a real problem to do so since the dulls give away your location.
Generally though, it's not too hard to do a totem as you come across it but the thing is if doing that you only get 2, 3 or 4 of the totems it only takes one for noed; and if you are not in a 4 man group how do you know how many totems have been done? Outside of like a map or detectives hunch.
That is why I think that communication hotkey scottjund suggested would help SO much. Someone selecting "Breaking a totem" would help a lot.
Some totems are very well hidden too, I mean you can only look around for so long, before it becomes a hinderance and just eating the noed and probably losing one person becomes the better option. I can get why that is frustrating for survivors, but I mean it's what the perk is supposed to do and honestly if they camp they'll probably get that one person anyways so it's not a huge difference.
Hunches exists and so do maps and loot perks and plenty of reasons to take one instead of a more meta perk so I think it's fair overall. The issues circle back to solo queue however where coordination is so difficult. I think we need better solo queue communication options, and noed would become less overbearing in solos.
"Hey, I am looking for a totem" after someone was hit with noed and is being hooked.
Someone else "hey, I am breaking the totem! (Active)"
Well then I know to keep the killer busy for a second so he can break that totem, or to search the area that guy is NOT in so I can cover more ground, or so many things that would be more helpful than blind guessing.
>If they have ruin and undying in the same build with noed it can be a real problem to do so since the dulls give away your location.
You just don't cleanse when you don't know that killer ISN'T near you to stop you or that he isn't busy with something else to switch.
Otherwise it's even more rewarding and necessary to deal with totems, as you'd have to cleanse/check all 5 of them, so once you deal with ruin&undying you also get rid of noed which is a huge win-win for you.
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Trickster looks too "polished" and clean. He stands out too much and I don't like it. It just feels like his model isn't from DbD, like it's been photoshopped from some Saint's row game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I mean...it doesn't stop me from gen rushing. I do all the gens and then I break one totem.....
I just remember most totem spawns or their locations as I play the game so I can check quickly later on. Even easier if I have hunch or a map equipped which are easy enough to have.
I guess it slows me down a few seconds, and 14 more to break it but I mean, if that costs a perk slot I have no issue with it. Sure it demolishes a lot of solo queues though, but I mean, what doesn't?
That's one way to deal with it, though some people just can't bear the idea that they might not be actually threatened by the killer.
In any case, most people don't have enough memory capability or skill to do so, which means they kinda have to do totems before all gens are done and apparently it's VERY hard for 4 people to do 5 totems.
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People arguing against making things that are already known to killer easier to track are pretty sad tbh