Only noed rework I find fair for everyone (although I don't think it's needed in the first place)
I personally don't think noed is a problem that requires reworks, changes or fixed, however since people are going to cry louder and louder until this perk is gutted, here's my view on what NoeD rework should and must be.
Changes:
- Removed Exposed
- Removed Movement speed buff
- Removed HEX part
- New effect: When Exit gates are powered, all survivors that are not healthy at that moment become broken until the end of a trial.
- New effect: Whenever survivor loses a healthstate before exit gates are powered, NoeD is revealed to them.
Good things for survivors:
- You don't need to worry about finding 5 hex totems
- You don't need to worry about sudden comeback
- Killer doesn't become harder to outrun because of speed buff
- You can control the strength of noed and clearly see if it's going to work
Good things for killer:
- The perk will make survivors spend time healing before poping last gen which wins more time for the killer
- The perk will have synergy with damage spreading killers
- It will force the endgame to end faster
- Broken status effect would allow Noed to be viable on killers using M2 to damage more often than M1 like Huntress or Demogorgon.
- No need to worry or guess whether you'll have noed or not, as well as see how strong would it be.
So basically:
as killer: if you spread damage, you win a lot of time and can enforce yourself a good endgame if survivors decide to power through gens quickly.
as survivor: you can control and clearly see whether there is noed and how strong will it be.
Thoughts?
Comments
Personally I don't think people will heal at the end before last gen anyway, i think it would just make injured people hide nearby whilst their team-mate opens the door, or get chased, if its 1 v 1 then its more find hatch or wait at gate regardless.
NOED doesn't need a rework as you said, maybe a totem counter if anything as knowing if all totems are done as a solo player can suck, but where's the fun in that
That doesn't solve the problem that everyone hates: facecamping.
This seems a bit to far of a nerf for noed imo.
Although I'm in favour of a nerf somewhat, I'd much rather it would reward good play, like a token for each hook and at a certain amount of tokens you get the exposed status effect.
NOED could apply only to those survivors who have been hooked once. That would be a fair nerf as it shows the killer has had some success during the trial.
I kinda like the idea as a different perk though, albeit I'd keep it as a hex because of how strong it could be.
I have felt NOED should be nerfed, but differently.
Still have it activate at the same time keeps speed boost, but now has tokens of insta-down.
Tokens are tied to how many totems are still on map, max of 5, minimum 2 tokens regardless of totems left as long as one is left for the Hex.
This keeps it strong, but survivors can weaken it.
In the moment, usually survivors will have no clue how many insta-downs he has. Also gives them more of a fighting chance against the EGC timer, as in survivors can cleanse a totems or two to weaken it, and potentially bring insta-down tokens to 0 if he already has used one or 2.
For the killer, he can see when token number dwindles down. That will let him know he isn't keep up the pressure on survivors.
For new Killers it is still a crutch perk, as new survivors wont know to do/can't find totems.
For intermediate and advance killers still give them a comeback mechanic, if they kept up pressure really well.
you just deleted noed from existence.
The solution is do bones. You know, that extra task that people keep asking for to balance out the game.
There are 5 totems and 4 survivors. if you are so damn focused on banging out the gens and tbagging the killer then you deserve noed.
Like I said, I don't think noed needs any nerfs or reworks, but since devs will inevitably bow to crybabies that can't live peacefully without some stuff from killers not being nerfed every chapter-midchapter, I'm proposing the outcome that I believe is the best.
How would Adrenaline work with this?
I think it's fine, I just pay attention to where totems are during the match, and at the end game if someone gets hit by a noed attack I pass by all the totems, spend the 14 seconds breaking the lit one, and then go save the person and leave.
I don't get why people assume you have to break all the dull totems; you have the entire match to find 5 totems, you don't have to cleanse them just see them.
so literally make saving someone impossible because everyone is oneshot?
I think when you are healthy when the exit gates are powered and get hit after that you can still heal. And you know that the killer has that perk, so you can avoid it. I think its a nice idea, but not really strong.
yes.
don't forget the game will tell you that this will happen if you don't heal yourself before popping last gen.
Personally I still think that noed's equivalent is hatch ,rather than adrenaline.
Both hatch and adrenaline are equivalents of noed in one thing or the other.
Noed and hatch are both "catch up" mechanics in some way, while noed and adrenaline are basically same perk just mirrored for the other side.
You're also wrong then.
Hatch rewards for losing.
Noed rewards for losing.
Hatch usually activates as survivors get pushed into a corner, although it could activate when survivors are winning anyway.
Noed usually activates when killer is pushed into a corner, although it could activate even when the killer is winning anyway.
Hatch gives a powerful opportunity for survivor to succeed.
Noed gives a powerful opportunity for killer to succeed.
Devs created hatch to give survivors a chance for added suspense.
Devs created noed to make killers a bigger threat at the end for added suspense.
RNG search for hatch.
RNG search for lit noed totem.
Hatch feels undeserved by killers.
Noed feels undeserved by survivors.
Just slug for the 4k.
Just do bones.
I think more importantly that there are a lot of similar responses between noed and hatch. Except, it switches depending on whose talking.
if NOED gets changed gens get rushed to ######### every game which is why they won't do it.
Killers need the looming threat of NOED without even having it or else gens will fly, that is way more powerful than actually having the perk itself. If that is not a thing anymore survivors will just ignore bones
If noeds get nerfed, I guess a lot of people will just start 3 genning
Noed Isn't useless against injured survivors, the speed boost still helps alot. Also since Adrenaline is a reward for completing the gens and Noed is a catch up perk I don't think they are equivalent.
and adrenaline also gives 150% burst, so..?
These perks are basically one and the same perk just mirrored. It just so happens that for one side it works as an extra advantage, while for the other it is a finisher/catch up mechanic.
or you know, just straight up quit. We curretnly have what, 5 minute survivor queues for solos? Where's the need in driving away killers with nerfs?
If you want to play a game of point out the differences than fine.
Adrenaline requires survivors to finish their objective while noed requires the killer to guard their totems, which is a separate task.
Adrenaline rewards survivors for winning. Noed rewards for losing.
Adrenaline heals a health state automatically, while noed requires the killer to m1 the survivor to have an effect. It does not instantly hit every survivor and drop them 1 health state.
Noed is a hex, can be removed before and after it is activated but it doesn't end unless removed or all survivors escape. Adrenaline cannot really be stopped unless the killer wins but it does have a time limit for the speed boost.
Adrenaline does not give an extra health state if the survivor is uninjured so they can take 3 hits. Being downed doesn't really count in my eyes either since that's stronger than just healing a single health state. Plus noed only works on m1s. Not exactly robbing a single health state either. I don't think that's equivalent.
Your last point " Adrenaline useless against instadowns, noed useless against injured as it only takes one hit anyway" is a stretch for equivalency. You could use that logic to make anything equivalent as long as it's useless. At least what I said has to do with how people have the same problems with hatch and noed. Saying hatch is useless if the survivors win and noed is useless if the killer wins is way more of a direct equivalence.
A lot of the things you've said makes it actually sound like they're counter perks with each other not equivalent perks.
'useless against injured players'
Okay.
good question
But Devour hope already does that, so how would you make it unique?
Make it based on hooks and not unhooks. Maybe each token or every two tokens gives you a 1% speed boost, and at 4 or 5 tokens the exposed status effect at end game.
The only thing I don't like about it is that would make it a "win harder" perk if it were done that way. That would just encourage gen rushing, instead of encouraging survivors to destroy totems, which is kind of the point of NoeD now. Survivors risk a very dangerous (yet not unwinnable) end game if they ignore them, without condition.
NoeD is kind of a "lie of omission" style perk. It's very existence is merely a threat to survivors who decide totem hunting isn't worth it. After all, without NoeD, there wouldn't really be a strong reason to leave gens, and that's part of the issue here.
NoeD is already somewhat of an empty threat because so many killers are discouraged from using it. They get called out on the forums, called out in endgame chat and via messaging. People forget survivor players made a whole Facebook/twitter group that was talking ######### about and "exposing" killer players for all kinds of stuff, including using NoeD. It's an indictment on your ability to play if you ever even think of placing it in your perk slot, because "good killers don't need it"
Imo if you want to nerf NoeD, you HAVE to give totems some inherent property that creates desire in survivors to destroy at least some of them. Something that makes chasing them down, instead of passively falling upon them in the open, worthwhile. If you only change NoeD in the way you mentioned, survivors would likely start playing more "immersed" which is to say alot more stealth and less risky hook play. They would be encouraged further to stick to gens, while also playing for denial of hook states. It gives Survivors too much control over a killers perk, IMO.
I'm not a fan of this rework. I personally don't think NOED needs a rework either, but if I were to change it:
This version of the Perk means that people who pulled their weight and cleansed some Totems are LESS affected by the Hex, but still have a vested interest in getting them all cleared because of the delay in getting the doors open. Those who didn't pull their weight face the same old NOED threat.
Noed is meant to punish gen rushing and ignoring secondary game objective aka cleansing dull totems. You're trying to cuck the killers using their final tool for this job. So yeah, I'll pass your suggestion.
Honestly, i think everything is fair game at the end of the trial. Act like you're playing L4D, If a teammates getting charged across the map, and the safehouse is right there, are you gonna help him and lose or win?
It's not impossible. Strategize and cleanse all the totems before the last generator instead of rushing the generators and the survivors don't have to worry about NOED.
Don't speak to me like that.
You know very well how much I can rail you on this subject.
I picked out your very wrong phrase and did so in five words. Lol
I'm making this perk in finisher only that becomes devastating if activated.
there is nothing else to do at the end game besides face camp. You move and that person gets unhooked and the rest leave. Then you got borrowed time for the unhooked and without noed the other guy gets hit and gets a burst of speed and leaves. Whats a killer to do.
The survivor ques are already really stupid high due to many killers not playing much anymore. You keep doing stuff and you'll have hour wait periods like we use to have on PS4 back when this game was first introduced to console. Trust me, you don't want that. I'd say remove the speed boost from NOED and call it a day.
Exactly what I do: go look for someone else because facecamping gives you no reward and it's just you BMing someone to get in a petty kill that, and I cannot stress this enough, gives you no reward. You literally get more pips and bloodpoints for finding and chasing someone else.
How does it affect people who cleansed a totem?
I've noticed you have had a change of opinion. Why?
Unless I've read it wrong this is still a net nerf for NOED. Something you were strongly against before.
It isn't a Nerf. It is a rework. While those that cleansed a Totem are not Exposed, they are still somewhat affected because the Toggle for the exit gates will still be locked down for a variable amount of time based on how many Totems are still on the map. It just affects those that pulled their own weight LESS. *And I haven't had a change of heart. I think NOED is fine. If it were reworked, this is what I would suggest to meet in the middle.
Thanks for elaborating. I really like your suggestion.
It solves the problem for both solo q and swf players. It addresses what killers run noed for (gens flying - no totems being cleansed) and the survivor complaints.
I said net nerf because it will definitely perform worse than current noed (which is okay!). I get it's a rework.
Ya but im trying to kill not pip.....there is literally no reason to leave the hook because everyone is already at the exit gate besides the one dude who is gonna go for the save
So you want a consolation prize.
A lot of people do man. The rank system means nothing to them. which is fine. The win condition isn't set in stone.
literally all they have to do is remove the speed buff and i'm happy.
What else am I suppose to do?
Get bloodpoints?
But im trying to kill
Wouldn't really change anything, apart from indirectly nerfing M1 killers even more.
We'll agree to disagree. At this point we will just argue in circles.
Ps I tried to copy your rhetoric and tone. It's nice when ppl call themselves out for bullshit.
you're* aggressive* you're*
Notice your huge reply to my five word response. I rest my case.
Yes that was the rhetoric. Permanent T1 bloodlust and compiling bloodlust on top of NOED is useful against both good loopers and not so good. Don't underestimate how that can translate to hit potentially one minute faster.
I personally don't like this, it seems to me it would drastically reduce its usefullness.
Personally I would add just one condition to NOED: only survivors who have been hooked at least once become exposed. This way facecampers can't use it to get more unfair kills, but killers who play normally and spread their hooks would still be able to enjoy the power spike in the end.
Can you stop typing such long inconcise waffle and I'll try to address it. I'm not reading that. You have a whole paragraph trying to explain how you like to debate. Lol
You haven't changed my stance on 4% movement speed on killer. That's not useless.
I don't care if you're aggressive or not. Just please keep it short and sweet and I'll gladly debate you.