Toblerone007
Toblerone007
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You should be getting enough distance to make to a window after the first one connects if playing correctly. The perk is already serving its purpose and being granted 12 seconds of unlimited hits is a terrible solution. Imagine the level of body blocking every match because you cannot go down.
Solution here is to not unhook when Bubba is right there and start popping gens. If Bubba wants to win the match, he has to leave the hook.
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@Gaffy said:
It pretty much killed the ruin combo and any kind of perk shakeup that killers could give themselves as they did not need to sweat their butts off to just beat gen speeds. And with the recent changes to Small Game and Counter Force coming up as a perk, totems are going to be even easier to find and destroy. This isn't even mentioning the existence of Detectives Hunch to find them even EASIER. But no finding totems was to hard for people and they didn't want to lose their 5 meta perks every game to you know, shake up the survivor meta that has been stagnant for 4 years and actually have different gameplay.
Reverting Undying doesn't make those perks better than the meta.
The undying nerf removed an RNG element favouring killer away. What's wrong with that? It's now consistent.
You want Ruin to last longer? The perk still does it. The tracking part of undying? I don't know, I wouldn't mind it showing the survivor cleansing the hex.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2247776#Comment_2247776
I main Wraith and i don't think that's true. Most of the time it's a 50/50 situation and not a save hit. And even the 50/50 situation counts only for very unsafe loops. If you can see him or the wall is a bit longer it's not easy to hit survivors.
He is much more fun to play right now, he is stronger as i said in various other threads but i'm sure he is not OP or something. Everyone has different tastes and it's ok not to like to go against him. But many people just don't want to adapt as you have to be very aware against him. Once he is starting to chase you normally, he is the weakest killer in the game.
Want to scrim? I'll play Wraith for unbiased data at unsafe structures and upload here?
I'm not saying he's not fun to play. This only decreases the playing against aspect. Since his buff of 0.25s extra sprint out of cloak he gains an extra 1.5 metres of distance. There is no cooldown to this. I can assure you this is more than enough distance to guarantee hits regardless of survivor input on unsafe pallets. This is not a comment on Wraith's balance 1v4 but rather a loss of micro interaction relationship between Wraith and survivor.
Safe pallet gameplay is exactly the same but that's not what I stated before you chimed that in.
Please understand I'm not calling Wraith overpowered! This is simply about how fun it is to play unsafe structures against current Wraith (1.5 metres extra is without addons too).
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@Shooby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2247763#Comment_2247763
That's my point. Nurse is the hardest killer for new players... But the best players with Nurse stomp... Not good balance.
He was pointing out your mistake in phrasing 'low skill floor'.
You meant high skill floor. That's what you're trying to say.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
Ah another crying about wraith thread.
As for lis extra lunge range at weak pallets: Just throw the dang pallet.
Its less his lunge and more of people refusing to prethrow them.
Also his lunge is there to make his stealth work as a chase mechanic as he can't use stealth in chase without it as uncloaking would make him lose too much time(and his uncloaking speed add-ons are worthless once you see the actual numbers).
You're going to get hit predropping unsafe pallets against current Wraith. The issue is exactly that. He can respect every unsafe pallet and 100% success rate get a hit on it regardless of input from the survivor because of the buff. The complaints are from a loss of interaction between survivor-killer here.
Does it make Wraith overpowered? No.
Are survivors deeming it as unfun? Yes.
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@jester20k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2247167#Comment_2247167
I don't really know if the servers are bad or if it's just the problem that now the signal is going in to a middleman server and delaying the process. What is clear is that it gives priority to what the killer sees. Which is how you get the nonsense hits you see when the killer has crap internet, or intentionally uses a VPN to create a bad ping for an advantage (which is the most pathetic thing on earth, how do you have any respect for yourself doing that is beyond me). Until they implement a system that gives priority to the better ping player, we are screwed, from what others have said on here, they can't do that to the point where if a killer thinks he's got a legit hit but it's because of latency and he swings through a survivor and doesn't get the hit, that killer isn't going to be playing the game for long and we can't afford to lose any killer players. I disagree, if the killers internet is crap I shouldn't be paying the price for it.
Servers performance is fine. It's not a packet loss / server choke.
Purely latency between each player and how the netcode for dead by daylight isn't developed (enough) to properly deal with latency. They need to implement proper interpolation of movement of players. That, and also make killers clients not calculate the hit. That's why VPN killers work.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2245451#Comment_2245451
I haven't seen the term used like that in years, normally a safe pallet is one that has to be broken, a god pallet is one that can just be camped once it's thrown, and an unsafe pallet is one that can actually be played or else it's not and never has been a "safe pallet", a la car loops and most junk tiles.
Of course, most loops are safe pallets with the bloody reworks. You don't need to throw Hay tiles to counter Wraiths lunge any more, for example, because they're so stupidly big.
Not sure how that definition has changed with or without reworks. The interaction has been the same for years. Safe and god pallets are mutually exclusive.
There are pallets that are safe because if you loop absolutely perfectly it takes bloodlust to get the hit or break pallet. God pallets cannot result in a hit even with t3 bl. That's the difference between them.
Unsafe is unsafe because if the killer plays correctly it will result in a hit regardless of survivor skill.
Show me some picture examples of what you differentiate between safe and unsafe. I certainly don't call car loops unsafe lol. Pallet between two small rocks? unsafe.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2245444#Comment_2245444
"Unsafe pallet" usually being "pallets that killers can play after they are thrown", not just pallets where the killer respects it and gets a free hit.
That's a safe pallet.
I was going by the standard def of an unsafe pallet that if doesn't stun a killer, the killer can get the hit on you while you're locked in animation.
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@MadLordJack said:
I gonna be honest here, if you're constantly getting caught out of position and/or taking hits from his lunge at unsafe pallets, that's the Wraith playing very well and/or you not realising you should be predropping unsafe pallets to make sure the Wraith can't take control and use his lunge in the first place.
You're gonna get hit though if you don't stun on an unsafe pallet.
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@Yords You say place snare one side and the other and run the survivor into it. The survivor gains distance if they sidestep the loop and run somewhere else. You couldn't do this before.
Once the traps are set, his gameplay is exactly the same yes. I think the nerf just hurts the killer players that couldn't macro preplacing snares and only place snares when chasing without any consequence.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240310#Comment_2240310
bro i do not understand this argument. you either think spirit has counterplay or you don't. how can you say i claim the entire fact she has no counterplay as MY idea. you can only believe 1 or 2. its not crazy that some people will in fact align their ideas. not everyone is a sheep, sheesh
Take a look at his post history. Contributes nothing to discussion.
Spirit doesn't have counterplay dependant on survivor skill. Guess I'm a sheep then because my opinion aligns with yours according to this guy. I agree with you therefore I didn't form my own opinion.
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@Trwth said:
^ Title
The score event rewards you with around 3000 bloodpoints in the Survival category for being sacrificed or mori'd while your team escapes, similar to Obsession Dead/Escaped. This will be beneficial to create a better understanding for Survivors on what a "victory" is and allow Survivors to earn more bloodpoints in the Survival category, which is currently why people have such a hard time grinding as Survivor in the first place.
The conditions of earning "Martyr" are as follows: you are killed or sacrificed after all of the gens are done OR at least one Survivor has escaped.
Perhaps after sacrificing yourself to save another it triggers. Never leave a soul behind is my motto.
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I would love to see mettle of man make a comeback to the meta. It's currently a very weak perk.
I would suggest making mettle of man proc conditions based on performance in a chase. The whole protection hit condition is not only buggy but so niche that using it is not practical.
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Couple things Moundshroud that make him worse than spirit:
Spirit leaves no trace in phase - zero audio/visual cues for survivor. Wraith has directional audio and can be seen cloaked moving slower than Spirit too.
Spirit can swing immediately out of phase. Wraith cannot do this. This gives time for survivors to react. If Wraith wants to camp cloaked, survivors can infinitely window vault. Spirit circumvents this completely because again no audio/visual codes for survivor.
Here's one advantage that Wraih has over Spirit now since his buff:
Wraith gets an extra quarter second of sprint coming out of cloak with zero cooldown. He is guaranteed a hit at any unsafe structure now regardless of survivor input because his sprint covers the distance to either side before you can make a vault. This is the reason he is getting a lot of heat lately. He has hit pressure everywhere except safe loops and strong tiles.
Spirit again circumvents all mechanics at every tile but isn't guaranteed the hit like Wraith now is at unsafe structures.
Understand shroudy that this is strictly good killer vs. good survivor gameplay. Spirit is far superior in chase.
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@Blueberry said:
And how often does this god tier Spirit show up? Almost never.
Really?
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234407#Comment_2234407
You keep referencing tournaments but even tournament players admit she has no counterplay in normal matches. The only hope they have is to spam drop every pallet immediately and hope their tournament squad finishes the gens before that matters.
Which is already laughable gameplay for all parties involved. Super mundane compared to the great esports titles.
I really don't understand the Spirit defenders. Keep up the good work Scott.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234101#Comment_2234101
Spirit does not nerf, she needs fair counterplay. Without perk. And i know you are Spirit main and i know you will defend her but that will not change anything. She is only broken killer in game right now.
Funny thing: Freddy, Billy and Twins nerfed unfairly but Spirit is still here with 0 counterplay. And yes i will complain about her everytime and i know most people will do that. When she get fair nerf, then Spirit will be okey.
Fair counterplay is a nerf. Spirit needs a nerf. I don't understand the word that shall not be spoken mentality about killer nerfs. It's not a taboo word. Say it:
N e r f
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@BioX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232496#Comment_2232496
the topic itself sadly does not really interest me, I have no issue with the way spirit works.
However your way of making it seem like some general consensus does, you are not the only one doing this btw, not by a long shot and ill point it out every time I see it with every forum user.
Then don't comment.
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@GannTM said:
Deathslinger doesn’t need a nerf. He isn’t strong enough, but he does need counterplay in the 1v1, which might be too complicated to fix for him.
Here's my suggestion:
Deathslinger can no longer instantly ads and has a clear wind up for survivors to see. He now has a cancel animation like Huntress.
Deathslinger can now use a sidearm grapple to shoot terrain and drag himself too it.
He's now weaker 1v1 and stronger 1v4.
Best of both worlds imo.
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It should be changed.
It's too free and removes some skillful interaction between killer and survivor. If Spirit could have it as a secondary ability on a cooldown, I'd be for it.
The current main power is so much more prevalent than the passive phase though.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2230190#Comment_2230190
Oh, so someone who didn't spend 2000 hours on mastering a killer deserves to get bullied?
Someone who learns a new killer deserves to get bullied?
Do survivors really only want to face god Nurses and Spirits 24/7?
If you're getting bullied with 2k hrs, you haven't mastered your killer. EDIT: misread - my statement below covers answers this.
Someone who is knew to killer doesn't deserve to get bullied but that's Darwinism.
Winning with god nurse / spirit =/= not getting bullied. You can achieve this with all killers. You won't win every game but that's okay. It's a pvp game.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2229313#Comment_2229313
If the game is not a power trip, then why do SWF feel like they have the power to bully the killer?
*bad killers
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2227597#Comment_2227597
Shouldn't the survivors feel like that?
Instead it's the killers that feel like one tiny mistake could be their last.
This is what's fundamentally wrong with the game. Power roles are switched.
This is a pvp game - not a roleplaying game. If you want to feel scared play something that has no bearing to ranking like F13. In that game it started off a given you were going to die if Jason found you.
This game is not a free power trip. You lobby up as killer - not god.
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You're right there should be a double depip playing normally. (Disconnecting isn't a skill based interaction.)
It's why there is an upward skew of the bell curve on the binomial distribution of ranks. While the rank system isn't spread out enough already (elite rank 1 players vs. average rank 1 players,) the fact that you can't derank as quickly as rank up playing normally will never produce a respectable rank system.
MMR might match players better when calculated correctly but we will always see terrible rank 1 players. It's unique to this game that the highest rank commands zero respect.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yTzqUNcgqk
Confirmed someone has escaped Scott's spirit.
All you have to do is bring Lucky Break and Iron Will every game and you can escape a good spirit once or twice a trial.
Countered.
xd
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Nah dude just say gg and click next match.
I have done that every single game I've played unless it's been an absolute doosie and I have to give props to the killer/survivors.
I come from other games rts, lol, csgo and it's so much more abuse prevalent there then it is here. Count your blessings.
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No offence to you but this is the daily life for someone who plays league of legends. At least on the OCE server. The same ######### happens on dbd too.
Being abused on the internet isn't something new.
I'd ignore it.
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@bowo said:
they're predropping every pallet, know what kind of add ons the killer is running, the killer has no perks, the killer doesnt know their perks, and they still didn't last that long. the stretched res is just the cherry on top.
Besides all that the interaction between Scott and Hiron was next to nothing. Most of it was correct reads and some guesses by Scott and some correct guesses by Hiron.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213223#Comment_2213223
Killers need to land hits in intervals of 30 seconds to be strong in the first place. A lot of the reason why the game balance breaks for killer at top-level is that most killers are not landing 30 second interval chases because of a lot imbalance loops(like god pallets, safe loops etc.). To put it bluntly, your skill as killer matters very little when your playing weaker killers like legion, clown, trickster(?) etc. you simply don't get the opportunity to mindgame the survivor because the loop has little to no mindgame when survivors plays safe loops perfectly. Its why changes like Billy and Freddy are very much in the wrong direction for when they're doing changes that remove skill-expression from those killers. Killers should strive to be closer to around spirit-level in power. Between the finding survivors, chasing the survivor for 58 seconds and hooking them, its easily around 80 seconds to complete 3 gens. Those pallets are there to get used. The biggest wasted pallet is the pallet that doesn't get used when you walk outside of an exit gate. There is enough pallets on the vast majority of maps that you will never really run out if you use them intelligently.
I'd be flaming the hell out of the person that has predropped every good pallet in the map.
The fact a pallet is up makes a killer play a tile differently. It's a swing of pressure when the pallet is down.
I can agree with you that Billy didn't need a nerf (he is still just as powerful just has no instasaw and power management) but I'm sorry it takes zero micromanagement to play Freddy and place traps without any movement penalty. His nerf was coming.
You realise if every killer was spirit level of power. Nobody would play right? Like survivors don't queue up and say to themselves I want to verse Spirit.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213078#Comment_2213078
The dropped pallets were much more than a 50/50, probably more favoured to scott especially if he had duration add ons or better add ons in general.
Also, do you know how much 58 seconds is for a killer whos primary power is chase ability?
You cannot say "a mere 58 seconds" when games end in 5 minutes. 58 seconds is a LONG time in DBD.
If this was a 1v4 naturally the chases to follow will not be 58 seconds. Unfortunately lots of people focused on the predropped pallets and not the pertinent problem which is take away the pallets, inexperienced survivor and tournament level survivor lasted similar times.
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@DeliciousFood said:
Yeah it took a competitive player with full perks vs a yellow addon, perkless spirit to showcase some 'counter play'. Which was absolutely unreliable given the differences in performance between rounds. This is a competitive player that has mastered going against Spirits and Nurses with a gargantuan amount of hours to boot. And he still died in very short chases at times, and his longest ones involved human error from Scott or having very good pallets to pre-drop in a row. Props to Hiron, he did so some good plays, but it never felt consistent.
Dropping every pallet on the map vs Spirit in 99% of the games, ending with 9 of them fried in the first minute and a half of the game, will spell the end for the team. Because almost never are your teammates as efficient as competitive squads, nor will they necessarily stay on gens when you pass by them during looping (because then any decent spirit can get an easy grab).
There is no counter play to a spirit in any REGULAR match. It's absolutely unreasonable to expect the average DBD player to adapt to such a monstrosity as competitive player like Hiron would (and even then comes out iffy). I'm convinced those that still defend her either are perpetually in low ranks or are downright lying for whatever reason.
Exactly what I have been arguing here for a while now.
The players, the setup and the map made for a real interesting video. Really enjoyed it.
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@El_Gingero said:
This video pretty much puts an end to the debate. There is no counter-play vs. Spirit.
- Tournament players are decimals above even the top 1% of players.
- Scott was put at an artificial disadvantage in almost every conceivable way. These laboratory settings do not occur in the actual game.
- All pallets were dropped as they were approached. This is not specific to Spirit and actually counters your own team, not her.
- Every dropped pallet was a 50/50.
- Scott made several mistakes, artificially extending chases as a result. This is not relevant to whether or not Spirit has counter-play.
- Even with all this, the average chase time was a mere 58 seconds. Some chases were significantly shorter, even with the u realistic concessions Scott made, vs. a player who’s above the top 1%, with laboratory settings in his favour.
- I didn't even know he was a tournament player. I just watched the gameplay and said he was good. Thanks for peace of mind
- Yes he was and on purpose to give best case scenario for the survivor.
- I wish he played it like he was saving pallets for the 1v4. Zubat dropped pallets like they were hot against Otz' addonless/powerless trapper. I really want to see good survs be conservative with pallets in these 1v4's but I digress.
- Not every pallet but you can tell he's guessing when he's taking hits after predropping and spirit phases. You watch from his perspective and there are no queues visual or audio for what he's doing. He might be imagining what Scott is going to do and act as if he's playing the spirit but that's still a guess.
- I know but Hiron's movement was so much better than his last challenger. I'm sure he was caught by surprise and the clips do show the visual/audio cues he missed in his blunders. He even made a pallet kick error.
- Yeah these times were inflated from predropping valuable pallets.That's why I said if you subtract the time bought with predropping he didn't last any longer than the inexperienced survivor Scott challenged before.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213053#Comment_2213053
A lot of those round loops aren't even that short tbh. On Hawkins they are but everyone agrees that map is BS. A lot of those round loops on MacMillan are long enough where you can react to Wraith.
I'll have to test more to work out the largest short loop you can do it on. You know the Grim Pantry planks and barrels short loop? Wraith can do it on that size.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213038#Comment_2213038
His post-cloak lunge is only mainly effective at short loops which there isn't that many of. They're not super rare but there are almost as many jungle jims and shack like structures that are strong against Wraith.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213041#Comment_2213041
To an extent, I agree, but I agree with other killers being unfun like Spirit and Slinger.
I said that though aha. Short loops are common what do you mean? What about unsafe structure? It's even worse.
Wraith isn't OP. You can only run him at good structure now with his sprint lunge. You used to be able to run him on every tile.
That's why there are complaints. It's only natural.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213020#Comment_2213020
And Scott is a good spirit so of course he's still going to down the guy fast in general. People always want to discount the skill of the killer when it comes to spirit. The average spirit player you'll face is going to be worse than Scott.
Spirit isn't uncounterable. There are actions you can do to extend chase as shown. Any killer that commits to a single survivor will eventually get a down. Chase killers like spirit can get the down sooner rather than later.
I'm just tired of people calling everything they don't like in this game "uncounterable" or "requires no skill", because those are just crutches for not trying.
I'm not discounting the skill of Scott at all. He's solid. He shouldn't win every game on spirit though. Watch his spirit streams. He goes against countless teams of good survivors that still lose. That's discounting survivor skill isn't it? A good player can have a higher winrate than others but nobody should claim a winrate like Dowsey of 95% on spirit. That isn't PvP.
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I don't think Wraith is OP now, I do think his hit and run and secure free hits at every unsafe pallet/window has taken away lots of interaction in chase. That's the thing, there is a lot of unsafe structure in dbd now which isn't a bad thing but it's something that current wraiths uncloak sprint duration dominates.That said I did want wraith to get buffs but to bring him to a modern killer level he requires something added to his kit to be honest. I'll copy what I wrote in another thread regarding his buff:
"He got an extra quarter second of 150% movespeed. That equates to an extra 1.5 metres of distance he can sprint out of cloak. That is huge at every short loop in the game. He can uncloak at an unsafe pallet/window and he's guaranteed a hit now. It's not about making the correct read anymore, it's about committing to the uncloack at the correct time. There is no cooldown to this mate so you get Wraith's spamming this now. It wasn't done before because he couldn't make the distance in time the survivor vaults the dropped pallet or vaults the window."
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@Crowman said:
I like how a better survivor comes out and lasts longer than the first guy, but instead of accepting that spirit isn't some uncounterable behemoth people are just looking for excuses why it doesn't count.
People have already made up their minds and these videos will do nothing to change a person's mind.
What do you mean? This wasn't showing a better survivor lasting longer. Most of his chase time was bought predropping safe pallets. I was trying to highlight that they last similar times when in actual hit pressure. So spirit getting downs consistently regardless of survivor input. These videos showed this perfectly. He even got a couple guesses correct which extended the chase for 5 seconds until Scott started phasing again.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Ah yes the tried and true spirit counter.
Throw a pallet every 12 seconds so that every pallet is gone in the time it takes your team to finish the first 3 gens. If they even manage it because you sandbagged their generator to throw every pallet near it.
Good chase times yes, but bad in the 4v1. I've seen comp players (talking about tournaments) that 20 seconds is a good chase against spirit as long as you make yourself die as far from the generators being worked as possible.
You're 100% right. I tried to include that in the original post. The way I analysed this was to remove any chase time gained predropping pallets comparing to the previous survivor. This survivor had very good micro regardless given it's a spirit 1v1.
@Beaburd said:
That resolution on the second video - how do people play like that?
Not even memeing, I had to hold my forehead because I was getting a sharp pain while watching it.
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Anywho, just have an advantageous start at a God pallet with an infinite window on the other side of the pre-selected map and throw every map resource asap as you run between them to hopefully last a minute on average. If you get stuck at a pallet, just look for slight cues for phasing and make the right guess afterwards.
Got it, I'm on the road to becoming a pro.
Not sure if you mean motion sickness cos of his camera management but understand it's how he takes good pathing while also keeping vision of the killer.
Yeah I kind of wish people were conservative with map resources in a 1v1 because you're right to say 40 seconds in each of his chases were bought regardless of his skill predropping pallets. This post was a reflection that he was lasting the same amount of time as the previous contender even though he is evidently good at survivor which I tried to dot point some techniques he was doing above.
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@Toblerone007 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyQnAlCGRSE&ab_channel=ScottJund
Survivor Perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ErOP1e4cYA&ab_channel=hiron
Continuing from last discussion but with this survivor lasted over double the time on average per chase. This is mostly due to predropping safe pallets and forcing spirit to phase larger distances. Naturally, this takes longer to get the down. Note that when Spirit is in range to do a small phase where the survivor cannot get distance results in a hit almost certainly because Scott is using sounds correctly. This is what I call constant hit pressure. An issue in dbd where the killer can down survivors quickly regardless of survivor skill.
Point is this survivor played exponentially better than the last survivor and produces similar chase times (when in hit pressure - so besides the time wasted with predropping pallets and god setups). Some techniques that prove this:
- Setting up fast vaults by taking the jungle gym wall wide and sprinting at the correct time running perpendicular to the window.
- Very attentive camera control. Kept camera in LOS of spirit at all times that didn't require looking at terrain to take shortest pathing on tiles/loops.
- Sidestepping when LOS has been broken to gain distance.
There's plenty more that made this survivor good but these were examples that the last challenger did not do which is imperative for high elo play.
Thanks to these content creators for uploading these clips. Very good stuff!
Specifically it's just Scott doing this particular one to my knowledge.
Otz started doing 1v1 challenges and it's gained popularity. Scott did it with players commenting to him that spirit has counterplay in chase. He challenges them to a 1v1. Makes a good video.
@AVoiceOfReason said:
There is only 10 pallets on the new maps. Most Spirits (at least I will) break those pallets immediately. Dead Hard was a really good play too. Still not a great counter since you're burning up pallets and no perk Spirit.
Yes I do think if it was a 1v4 his team would of lost after the deadzones created but I suppose from his perspective it's a 1v1 situation and it was only going to up his chase time. He wasn't claiming predropping every pallet to counter spirit, just wanted to do the challenge I'm guessing.
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It's likely from the extra mechanics he has accidentally introduced to him after they tried to remove the J-flick. He can 180 without increasing input sensitivity. He is an absolute monster on short loops. Of course, his skill cap is among the highest. He has hit pressure as much as the other S tier killers. That's why I'd say he's now S tier. That's my opinion.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212752#Comment_2212752
Why would I want to talk about numbers?
I just said he was allready strong when played right, something many didn't know how too.
Now that he got a few slight buffs, which you think of as huge buffs, people can't bully him as easily anymore.
That is the main complaining about him here, even though many try to paint it of as if he's "unfun" to go against.
Now that people need to plan their routing and think about how to play, all of a sudden it's not fun anymore 🤔
Btw it is good that you get those vibes but i really, really have to disappoint you as I play both sides and don't main 1 side over the other.
👋👋👋
Vague.
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@th3 said:
Sprint burst would be the next big thing killers complain about as being very boring.
Sprint burst is better than dead hard too. Maybe not as fun as dead hard from a survivor perspective but so much more versatile and powerful. I think it's the vibe dead hard gives that makes it a hot topic. It's just an obnoxious good perk. I love it. Killers hate it. I understand why they hate it though.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210105#Comment_2210105
He always was strong when played right.
The problem was that not many could or did play him effectively.
So he was easy to toy with when he was chasing you.
The only time he wasn't easy to toy with was when he was played right and effectively.
Now that he got some slight buffs, he's not that easy to toy with and thus people start complaining about him.
It's something that most people showed me here on the forums, is that they want killers that they can easily loop and toy with.
As soon as they release a killer that doesn't allow that or they buff a killer, they start crying about it.
He wasn't magically strong before his buff. If you're going to post and argue against survivors can you refer to the buffs and the number changes?
He got an extra quarter second of 150% movespeed. That equates to an extra 1.5 metres of distance he can sprint out of cloak. That is huge at every short loop in the game. He can uncloak at an unsafe pallet/window and he's guaranteed a hit now. It's not about making the correct read anymore, it's about committing to the uncloack at the correct time. There is no cooldown to this mate so you get Wraith's spamming this now. It wasn't done before because he couldn't make the distance in time the survivor vaults the dropped pallet or vaults the window.
This is part of what OP is complaining about and it makes complete sense. Classic killer main vibes from you. Note how vague 'easily loop and toy' sounds like. Stop being vague. Please. PS. Please format your posts instead of hitting enter after each sentence.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
I’d rather have Wraith than Spirit or Legion, but since his rework, he has plummeted in terms of fun factor for me. Don’t get me wrong, Wraith absolutely needed a buff, and it’s sad how weak he’s been for so long.
This isn’t about strength, as there’s at least 10 killers stronger than him, and most are enjoyable to play against. His style of play is just extremely frustrating as a survivor. At a lot of loops, it’s basically a 50/50 as to which side of the pallet he runs to with his massive speed when uncloaking. If this happened just once in a chase, it would be okay, but there is really no reason to stay uncloaked as Wraith since he has literally no power then. This results in a pallet being thrown and broken, over and over, with very little mind games required by the wraith, unlike a killer such as Billy.
I feel like simply buffing his numbers has made him extremely frustrating to play against, as his speed when uncloaked is absurdly fast. Again, I feel like I need to say this multiple times, but I do not think he is OP, just simply not enjoyable to go against. I know it won’t happen, but I wish they would give his cloaking a cooldown, but give him some other ability in chase, or something that gives the Wraith a reason to stay uncloaked.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
You're right he's become a free hit powerhouse against even the best survivors. That's the boring factor. Would you seriously take spirit over him though?
There is a solution. Use windows and get used to double vaulting windows. No entity blocker when he's cloaked.
He is a monster on unsafe pallets. He is a monster on unsafe windows. Do not path towards them. You want safe windows and he'll have no choice but to uncloak and play the tile to block the window. That's all you can do.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212581#Comment_2212581
What are you trying to say? That nurses are overrated or that rank 1 killers aren't really good?
The end bit.
Rank 1 killers aren't really good.
Nurse is the best killer in the game.
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@Tsulan said:
At this point I don't believe in a hard nerf for keys. Otherwise they wouldn't have introduced hatch offerings. They probably give keys a 1 second opening animation and that's about it.
Let's face it, keys are here to stay.
Give them credit. Cmon.
Go watch some 2016-2017 era gameplay. Come back.
Keys are going to get more than 1 second charge time. There's no way they spend 6 months to do that.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2212614#Comment_2212614
Hrm. That was my point earlier, when I pointed out Spirit has counter play but in terms of a game, not 1v1 chase. Survivors always lose a 1v1 chase eventually. So it is clear my understanding of what people are demanding to be so-called counter play is different from how I define it. To me, it just means it is possible to beat the Spirit (even a good one). I'm not defending the Spirit; I don't play her at all. I've suggested that when not in Haunt she should be the same as my Tier-1 Myers, i.e. 105% speed. I do think she needs a minor tweak. But I strongly disagree with this notion that she has no counter play (at least as I define it).
Yes but this video wasn't about the 1v4 with spirit. You chimed that in. It's really not relevent. The criteria was fair and reflects a likely situation in a chase scenario with spirit. Something survivors have been complaining about forever. Once we're done with spirit, deathslinger is next. Now that's irrelevent to this topic lol!!
Yes under your definition of counterplay then Spirit can be countered - ish. I'm still not a believer that stealth is a valid playstyle high elo because you slow down the game too much. It's not hard to find survivors. Show me the content that proves me wrong.
Interesting suggestion but it doesn't fix spirits core issue of risk free use of power for huge pressure on survivor. That just makes spirit harder to first get into but virtually the same once you have got phase walk down. I'd say she needs a smackdown nerf: passive phase removed, phase has a global sound queue once she starts channelling once she enters the phase and you can see her leave a trail and make noise moving around in phase. Her power gets fully consumed per phase. You watch, with my changes she will still remain top tier. She just became so much harder to play now. Health.
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@Moundshroud said:
Well let's all be honest here, the challenge is a setup. I like Jund just fine, but of course that 1v1 starting at the hatch was going to be a nightmare to counter play. :) The thing is those aren't the conditions in an actual game. If we are refining his argument to say there is zero counter play against a Star Player in a 1v1 Loop situation where the Killer starts with you already in her sights, that is a much more narrow argument than simply saying Spirit has no counter play.
The best counter play to Spirit is good evasion, i.e. stealth and attrition. This challenge end runs that option. :)
His argument is exclusively the 1v1 chase between the Spirit player and survivor. Scott isn't arguing that Spirit cannot be beaten 1v4. No need to refine anything, it should be intuitive this was about chase.
He said at the start of the video that this challenger was a spirit defender in his comments. I got massive killer main vibes from watching him get chased. That was not a good survivor player. At all. He tried all the tricks (the ones you have suggested to players to do before) and had a 100% failure rate. The survivors pathing and camera control (hence the bad pallet drops and poorly times vaults) was awful and the chase should of lasted longer (not a huge deal because it's a chase against a good spirit). Compare it to the 1v1 between Scott and Zubat years ago on spirit. I think collision wasn't removed yet and he lasted thrice the time just using tiles correctly and general mastered micro for survivor.
This looked like somebody with very little survivor experience trying to implement "counter-play" they've said works to try and sell Spirit is a balanced killer. Something many MANY killer mains here try to do.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2211342#Comment_2211342
So just because you are bad, i´m a liar.
Ironic that you use DBD's ranking to dress your argument that the Nurse player you versed and escaped was good.
It's ironic because you have said many times on this forum that ranks are meaningless... except when it supports your notions apparently.
Want to scrim? I'll record. Videos of dbd are so much more indicative of skill than a screenshot of post match summary especially when you gloat about beating a nurse.
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@TGB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210754#Comment_2210754
I was Cannibal.
And on neither Killer am I to pre-rev a chainsaw without any vision on which direction the Survs took. PARTICULARLY not on Cannibal, as at least Hillbilly can cover some distance in niche cases with a "missed" guess on Survivor pathing.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210741#Comment_2210741
Honestly - even though I AM angry, and mean what I say - people do read my posts thinking I'm angrier than I am... So I'm glad you got the touch of sarcasm/humor/whatever in my segment there. Because everyone else probably read it like I said it straight-faced.
If you're good at killer, you know possible pallet locations before even getting vision. The survivors gave you good advice. Playing cannibal you want to be pre-revving as much as possible without losing distance. Pallets are best for this because good survivors will check if you're a respector gadget or someone who will call your bluff and walk through the pallet. Pre-revving saves the most time on this. They beat you on survivor and gave you good advice on playing Bubba. Doesn't that say something to you?
Show gameplay if you still believe you're a good killer.